MOVE lies about John Gilbride Part 1: Play The Tape

When MOVE feels threatened, they turn to friendly media outlets to control their narrative. This episode takes you inside a revealing 2005 WURD Radio broadcast where MOVE members responded to a Fox News segment about the unsolved murder of John Gilbride. The previously unreleased audio exposes how cult propaganda works in real-time.

Ramona Africa, MOVE's Minister of Information, leads a coordinated response where members employ classic manipulation tactics: denying involvement in John's murder while simultaneously casting doubt on whether he was actually killed, deflecting attention to a mysterious "Dominican wife," and portraying themselves as victims of media persecution. Most disturbing is their repeated suggestion that John's son was MOVE's property, not an individual with rights to know his father.

What makes this exploration particularly powerful is hearing MOVE members' own words contradicting themselves over time. Mike Africa Jr, who in 2005 participated in MOVE's character assassination of John, portrays him as "a good dude" and even a friend in his 2024 memoir—claiming John's murder "fucked him up." These contradictions reveal how propaganda evolves when organizations fear losing control of their narrative.

The episode also connects dots around Alberta Wicker's strange decision to change her surname to "Gilbridge" after John's death—matching a typo on his autopsy report—raising questions about possible financial motivations.

Former MOVE members have alleged that they believe the group is somehow involved in John's murder. Their testimonies, combined with MOVE's own recorded words from 2005, paint a disturbing picture of how authoritarian groups weaponize media to intimidate critics, rewrite history, and maintain control over their followers.

The producers of this podcast wish to stress that all individuals reference in this series are presumed innocent unless or until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law in the United States of America.

Chapters

• 0:00 MOVE's Media Strategy Introduction
• 2:17 Ramona Africa Responds to Fox News
• 6:54 MOVE's Defense Against Murder Accusations
• 10:38 Claims About John Gilbride's Death
• 17:30 Teresa Africa Joins the Conversation
• 24:51 Mike Africa Jr's Book Contradictions
• 36:29 Revisiting Mike's Earlier Statements
• 54:40 Pam Africa's False Claims
• 1:02:51 Final Reflections on MOVE's Tactics

Transcript

Beth: 0:01

This episode includes discussion of murder, including the unsolved shooting death of John Gilbride, and references to the deaths of children. Please take care while listening. It is intended for mature audiences only. Wurd Radio is Philly's first and only Black-owned talk radio station. It's been a big part of the city's conversation for decades.

Mike : 0:26

Stand with WURD Radio, the only Black-owned talk radio station in Pennsylvania.

Beth: 0:32

MOVE has a long history with WURD. From early on they knew the power of media. They've always called this part of John Africa's strategy putting out information their version of the story which, when it is deliberately misleading or used to promote or publicize their cause or point of view, it's the definition of propaganda. After this podcast launched in late June 2021, WURD reached out via email. They invited me and my sources, particularly former MOVE members who were Africans, to be on Evening Words with Nick Taliaferro. I told them I'd happily pass the invite along because my sources deserve the mic. They're the ones who lived it and, honestly, I was still buried in production on season one. So for three days in a row, rain, maria and Witt told their stories on WURD about the abuse, about the control, about MOVE being a cult and about MOVE lying to the public and the press. I will put a link to all of those interviews in the show notes MOVE members and leaders. They were listening all three days and I was told they were not happy Like full-blown cult meltdown, mad. Which brings us to some audio tape I'm sharing in this episode for you. It's from February 2005.

Beth: 1:56

MOVE requested to be on WURD in order to respond to a Fox News segment about the unsolved murder of John Gilbride in September 2002. And yes, MOVE recorded it for themselves on a tape recorder because, like a lot of cults and narcissists, they archive everything that has to do with them. Then they can share it for their followers, they can listen back to themselves and they can study it to improve upon their public speaking and their talking points. This tape came from someone who was in MOVE. They got out and they gave it to me along with a bunch of other materials.

Beth: 2:34

I'm sharing it now because it shows how MOVE has used media to their advantage and what they do when they feel like they're losing control of the story. This original audio runs close to two hours. I've edited it for clarity, cutting out repetition and anything irrelevant. What you are going to hear keeps the full context and everything that matters. I'll be jumping in with footnotes and context, as usual. The founding general manager of WURD was a man named Cody Anderson and for this MOVE appearance in 2005, he is also acting as the host.

Cody Anderson: 3:09

And we're back and I thank you for your patience and you got it All right.

Ramona: 3:13

We just want to let people know about yet another another attempt by this system to stop the MOVE organization to come at us.

Beth: 3:23

That's Ramona Johnson, aka Ramona Africa.

Ramona: 3:28

We understand. John Africa told us years ago that this system would never stop coming at us. As long as the MOVE organization exists and there are committed MOVE members, this system is going to come at us to try to stop us. So we know exactly what's happening here. We've experienced it over and over and over again over the years. What is happening now is that we understand last night on Fox 29, and then again at 7.30 this morning, they ran this story saying that the Maple Shade police in New Jersey were working with the Philadelphia police and were hot on the trail of getting answers to the murder of John Gilbride. Now, most of you, I would think, probably know a little bit about the custody case that we were involved in approximately three years ago, where the system was trying to take away one of our MOVE children and the father, you know, John Gilbride, was shot to death, found murdered over in New Jersey, Maple Shade, New Jersey. At least this is what we're told. We've never seen the body or anything.

Beth: 4:47

Ramona Johnson was not invited to view the dead body of John Gilbride, nor was anyone in MOVE, including Alberta, which makes sense considering that all of them had been stalking, harassing and threatening both John and his family, who lived five hours away in another state for four years.

Ramona: 5:06

And the Maple Shade Police Department. You know we've spoken with them. They asked to interview us. We talked with them openly. I mean, we didn't really know anything about John's life, you know, when he was murdered because he had left my sister years ago.

Beth: 5:21

Fact check true, Ramona Johnson went with Alberta Wicker to talk to Maple Shade Police.

Ramona: 5:28

So they come out with this story last night and this morning saying that they're hot on the trail of, you know, finding answers to the murder of John Gilbride. But the only people that they show are MOVE people.

Cody Anderson: 5:42

They showed, they showed MOVE people.

Ramona: 5:45

My sister, alberta, who was married to John Gilbride, showed her in an interview very upset after hearing about John's death and saying that she never wanted anything like that to happen to him, even though you know they were at odds about the custody of, you know, their son.

Beth: 6:05

they were at odds about the custody of, you know, their son. I believe that this clip that Ramona is describing of Alberta crying and being upset would be from September 27th 2002, which was 18 hours after John is murdered, when Alberta invites news media into MOVE headquarters on King Sessing Avenue for her press conference.

Ramona: 6:24

They showed MOVE people demonstrating King Sessing Avenue for her press conference. They showed MOVE people demonstrating during the custody case. We did have demonstrations at the Philadelphia Inquirer because the news media, you know, working hand in hand with the government, really was trying to indict MOVE, trying to subliminally say you know that we're murderers, that we're responsible, and anybody that knows anything about the history of MOVE knows that we do things out in the open. You know we don't have a history of sniping people or anything like that.

Beth: 6:59

Fact check true. MOVE did show up at the Enquirer in order to protest what they were writing about John Gilbride's murder. MOVE always showed up if they did not like the coverage they were getting. They just called it a protest.

Ramona: 7:18

But really it was intimidation of the Inquirer. You know now this Fox 29 piece, all you know, very deviously and subtly try to implant in people's mind that MOVE you know is behind the death of John Gilbride and we're not going to let them get away with that MOVE is not murderous, never have been, never will be. I mean, come on, wilson Good, you know, was responsible for a bomb being dropped on MOVE people. You know our babies being burned alive. Did we go out and try to kill Wilson Good? Now, if we didn't do that, how can anybody substantiate that we would have anything to do with the death of John Gilbride? He wasn't no threat to MOVE.

Beth: 8:06

Ramona is saying they couldn't have killed John Gilbride because they didn't kill Mayor Wilson Good, even after he ordered the bombing that killed 11 of their people. This is a classic MOVE MOVE In psychological and academic research on coercive groups and authoritarian behavior. There's a well-documented tactic known as intimidation through denial. It's when a group or individual denies wrongdoing by highlighting the harm they could have done but didn't. It's a tactic to assert moral superiority while subtly reminding you of their capacity for retaliation. It sounds like restraint, but it's actually a threat in disguise. The message is we had a reason, we had a target and we didn't act. So why would we now? This tactic achieves two things it denies motive and culpability in John Gilbride's murder and reminds any critics, defectors or government officials basically anyone who isn't MOVE that they know how to hold a grudge and they don't forget what you've done. It's not just a defense, it's a warning.

Ramona: 9:17

MOVE did what we always do when faced with a situation like that. John wasn't going to come in our house and try to take, you know, one of our boys, one of our children, you know, away from us. It was the government, the cops, that he was relying on to do that. So what we did was we prepared ourselves for the police trying to come into our house.

Beth: 9:39

Fact check, true MOVE went into confrontation mode. If you'll remember from the first season of the podcast, they put slats on the windows at King Sessing, just like they did in Powleton Village, and that confrontation that ended in one dead, seven injured by gunshots. And, as they did on May 13th 1985, osage Avenue, the deadliest confrontation that MOVE had with police, that resulted in 11 dead and 61 homes burned to the ground.

Ramona: 10:10

They deviously try to, you know, subtly implant people's mind that MOVE is behind it, because Monica Yank Kenny did an article talking about. She was going to, you know, get to the root of John Gilbride's death. She was going to investigate and the only people she talked about was MOVE.

Beth: 10:27

Fact check true, monica Yankinny was a columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer and she did write about John Gilbride's murder and she did write about the custody case and MOVE went after her. She even wrote a column saying that she felt they were trying to threaten her, even wrote a column saying that she felt they were trying to threaten her. And MOVE members were directed to write in letters to the editor complaining about Monica Yankini's reporting.

Cody Anderson: 10:51

Did you request copies of the tape or the news report?

Ramona: 10:55

I called and spoke to the news reporter His name is George Malay and he said that he was going to email me the text of it and that I would have to talk to his boss about a video. You know, tape copy. So I waited and waited all day long until we came here. Never got the email. His boss never called me back. I tried to reach her. You know, of course she's unavailable. They're trying to, you know, get their little thing together. We know what's happening with this. These people hate.

Beth: 11:27

MOVE. So, for context, ramona Johnson, as the Minister of Information for MOVE, is demanding her own personal copy of a news broadcast, and when MOVE doesn't get what they want, they try another way, which is why they're on WURD less than 24 hours after this news broadcast. All of this is happening at the direction of leader Alberta Africa, john Gilbride's ex-wife.

Ramona: 11:54

Cody, look, you're talking about a custody case. All right, they lost that custody case. You know we kept our child, a MOVE child. They're mad behind that and they want to strike out at us any way they can.

Beth: 12:14

Fact check False. John Gilbride won unsupervised custody and unsupervised vacations with his six year old son, Zackary unsupervised vacations with his six-year-old son, Zackary.

Ramona: 12:29

But what they're not telling people while they're deviously trying to you know, MOVE up, say MOVE as murderers. John Gilbride had remarried, Cody. According to the courts, the government because we didn't know anything about this. The courts have said that John remarried to a woman from the Dominican Republic. He was married to her one week and she left him. He filed for an annulment. Shortly after that he was found dead. According to them, this woman disappeared. We never heard anything more. The government said they don't know anything about her Fact check.

Beth: 13:05

True John Gilbride was married to Rosario, a woman from the Dominican Republic. If you want a refresher, go back to season one, episode 12, rosario, the secret second wife here on WURD Ramona Africa is using the Rosario story to MOVE's advantage.

Ramona: 13:25

John Gilbride's mother, father you know the courts US Airways where he worked. Nobody knows this woman's first name, but meanwhile, after leaving John and disappearing around the time of his death, she reappeared to collect his monies from US Airways where he worked, and then disappeared again. Now, how is that possible, Leaving John Gilbride's only son, my sister's son, his only child, with nothing?

Beth: 13:58

At the time of his murder, John Gilbride was legally married to this woman from the Dominican Republic. She was entitled to his life insurance policy as his wife. This is where it's very clear how important money is to Alberta, the leader of MOVE.

Ramona: 14:17

He got nothing from US Airways, but this mysterious woman that he was married to, you know, for one week and who disappeared around the time of his death, reappeared to get the money and then disappeared again. Nobody even knows her first name and she's not suspect. But MOVE is. You know how come the news media don't talk about this woman? How come they don't label her a prime suspect? If this woman is from the Dominican Republic, she is not getting in and out of this country without the government knowing about it, without a passport and being recorded, and all of that Now, if this is what they're saying happened.

Ramona: 14:58

They gave her the money. She was married to him for one week. They know about it, they know her full name, they know everything about this woman. Why aren't they talking about her? Why aren't they trying to find her, to get some answers from her? We talked to the Burlington County Prosecutor's Office freely as long as they wanted. Why aren't they looking for her? Why are they keeping that so undercover? And aren't they suspect for not following up on that, not talking about?

Beth: 15:26

that the government Burlington County Prosecutor's Office, mapleshade Detectives. They spoke to Rosario. She was not in the United States on the night of John's murder and she was never labeled a suspect. Neither was MOVE. There has never been a person of interest or a suspect named in the murder of John Gilbride. You can also imagine that Rosario, who was very aware of MOVE because of John, was scared and that police would not have revealed her full name and her location publicly.

Ramona: 16:03

You know Monica Yankinny didn't mention a word about this woman. You know she's so busy trying to frame, MOVE up and implant in people's minds that MOVE had something to do with this. You know, deliberately keeping the facts quiet. You know people always talk about MOVE. You know in our big mouths we're always out there, we're always stirring up. In our big mouths we're always out there, we're always stirring up controversy and all that we're not doing, that we are defending ourselves and our children. You know that's what we're doing. We are not offensive, we defend ourselves against it. You know doesn't mean that we're we're, you know, causing a problem. We're not we're solving the problem. We're, you know, causing a problem. We're not we're solving the problem.

Beth: 17:05

I just have to jump in here because she has such indignation when she is straight up lying.

Cody Anderson: 17:18

I think that's a good tell right If someone is lying, if they sound so overly confident? I don't know how you feel about lawyers, but did you try to subpoena the tape or the script from 29?

Beth: 17:28

I don't understand why Cody Anderson is automatically going to a defamation position for MOVE here.

Ramona: 17:40

It's less than 24 hours and he hasn't seen the tape. As I said, I just talked with the woman today. We found out about it and I called the reporter who was supposed to email me the text, and I called his boss, who he said I had to talk to in order to get the videotape, and she never called me back. I called back again and still could not get her. So we will follow up on it, but our position is to come to the people and let the people know what's going on and that's why we appreciate, you know, you opening up your mics and letting us address your audience with this.

Beth: 18:16

Their position is their strategy, which is to find a friendly reporter, friendly media outlet and tell their story when they know that they will not get questioned about it. They did it then, they do it now.

Ramona: 18:34

Need to know. If MOVE doesn't speak up and put the facts out there, put the truth out there, people will never get it. They won't know what's going on, because how else would they even know about this Rosario woman, right, you know the media never, ever talks about her.

Cody Anderson: 18:51

So was the, and I'll let you MOVE on with that. Was the marriage annulled?

Ramona: 18:58

Not finally. No, um, not finally. No. The annulment papers were filed, but John was killed before the annulment was you know?

Cody Anderson: 19:06

finalized, so whatever he had went to the lady.

Beth: 19:17

But even that, I mean, you know MOVE is we want justice. If you look at headlines about MOVE all the way back to 1976, it is always about the money. The lawsuits, the settlements, their demands, under Vincent Lee, part under Alberta Wicker and now under Michael Davis, alberta Wicker and now under Michael Davis aka Mike Africa Jr it is always about the money.

Ramona: 19:51

That little boy didn't have anything to do with any of this. He was simply, you know, the child of this man who they say was murdered.

Beth: 19:57

Fact check John was murdered. Say was murdered. Fact check John was murdered. This is Ramona trying to sow doubt among listeners that maybe John wasn't murdered.

Ramona: 20:07

You know and was entitled, entitled to whatever you know pension and monies that John Gilbride had at US Airways. Now, if my sister couldn't even get John's insurance initially because they were saying you know she was a suspect in the you know murder of John Gilbride and all of that and you know it had to be cleared up, but they never said anything about this woman from the Dominican Republic and US Airways just handed her over you know John's money, his savings, pensions, whatever you know, and she's not a suspect.

Beth: 20:49

Now here's something strange. John Gilbride's autopsy in 2002 lists his last name, his surname, as Gil Bridge. That's not John's surname, it's Gilbride, a one-letter typo. Nowhere else does this surname appear in relation to John until three months after this 2005 WURD broadcast when Alberta Wicker Gilbride, john's ex-wife, who at this time has been married for over two years to MOVE member Gary Wonderland, files to legally change her name to Alberta Gilbridge Wonderland. Not just that, she also changes Zachary's name, john's son, to Gilbridge-Wonderland. Remember, alberta married Gary five weeks after John was killed and now she's using a version of John's name that only appeared on a death certificate. Was it to align with the autopsy? For legal or financial reasons? Whenever MOVE is making a MOVE that is financial, they always say this.

Ramona: 21:56

It's not about the money. It's not about the money. It's about their attitude and the media's attitude, because they're an arm of the government, you know, and trying to set, MOVE people up, frame, MOVE people up and implant in people's minds. That MOVE had something to do with this. We didn't have nothing to do with John's death.

Ramona: 22:17

We're not murderers. That's not our belief. You know, on one hand, people going to say that you know we won't kill an animal, you know whether it's an insect or rodent or whatever, but then are you know so ready to believe that we would, you know, kill a John Gilbride? Or that's what the government, through the media, is trying to make people believe, and it just don't work.

Pam: 22:42

Yeah, one thing is clear.

Beth: 22:45

Enter Pam Africa. Legal name Jeanette Knighton Patton. She doesn't become Pam Africa until after 1991.

Pam: 22:58

On the day that John Gilbride was killed, or so-called killed, because again we haven't seen anybody. I mean the body of John Gilbride.

Beth: 23:09

Footnote this is the second time a MOVE member is sowing doubt that John Gilbride was even murdered.

Pam: 23:15

And the child was never offered to come to the funeral. We don't believe in funerals okay, but he was never offered to be brought to the funeral. Also, john was a devout Catholic. His parents were Catholics. They don't believe in cremation, but the evidence, just like they tore the evidence down on August the 8th, how they burned an entire block and a half on May 13th, and all the high evidence they cremated John's body so that you know you can never find out anything of. You know, I mean we've never seen anything.

Cody Anderson: 23:52

Who cremated his body.

Pam: 23:53

The parents had the body cremated. So they say and so they say again but media, that was there. We talked to them at one of the hearings afterwards and asked them you know about the body? They said they never seen anybody. When they got seen at the scene they said in fact they never saw blood.

Beth: 24:14

Here is Pam going further to sow doubt about John's murder On top of them not seeing his dead body, she wants you to believe that the cremation of John's dead body is part of a cover-up.

Pam: 24:25

You know so we're in question about. You know what it is that they're saying. One thing we do know and this government have TV. I mean you know they make movies about how they kill people or you know how they make people disappear and even have people go to jail for murder. You know that's, that's this government. But you know my sister went to court for what, four years Back and forth with this custody suit with with John, and the senior judge you know was a, was an elder who was wellpected within that world as a fair judge.

Beth: 25:02

Of my six years of research, this is the only time that MOVE is saying that a judge is fair. And the reason they're saying that is because he was ruling in Alberta's favor. He was not giving John unsupervised visitation with his son, so MOVE likes to have it both ways. The system is out to get them. Every judge is corrupt, except when a judge is ruling or leaning in their favor.

Pam: 25:34

He took. John told the judge in the beginning that Alberta was a MOVE member. He told her all about, told him all about May 13th, august 8th, and the judge dealt with what was exactly before him. At the end of four years, this judge said John would only be allowed to Throughout the four years. Throughout the four years because he gave John every chance there is to prove himself worthy of taking his child. But he couldn't. He gave him two visits a week for one hour.

Beth: 26:03

Fact check true, John was not allowed unsupervised visits. Every time he went to go see his son, MOVE, members were in the room. And what you're about to hear next, I think is very telling, Because often MOVE tells on itself.

Pam: 26:21

And that ended the custody suit and his parents who stepped in to the hearing and filed the suit as well. This senior judge, after viewing this case for four years, looking at Mr Gilbride and his mother and father, gave them one hour. I mean no, gave them one day every three months, which was five hours. And I'm talking about you, talking about judges, as opposed to in the MOVE organization, and you're talking about parents and who's not been in the MOVE organization. Right after that happened, about a week or so, maybe two weeks later, all of a sudden John appears at my sister's house with a court order from a judge that we'd never heard of, never visited, know, talk to the child. He also talked with my sisters and he also visited the house and the child visited the judge in privacy and you know the judge talked back and forth. Then he made his decision after four years.

Pam: 27:32

All of a sudden, here comes a judge who had no reputation for dealing with children you know who was involved in criminal court dealing with children. You know who was involved in criminal court pops in and grants this man the right to come and take our child away from us, you know, for the weekends, unsupervised. And that's when we boarded our house up and told them you know, no way will we allow them to take a MOVE child, and we had already won the case. And plus, we had an Internet site in which people followed that case from the very beginning, all throughout it. So all the different things that was happening when this case hit people around the world was contacting them and letting them know that. You know, this is a complete outrage. In fact, the day that John Gabriel because they act as if John came on one day to get his child, and then this happened John had come to that house on the day. He said he had that court order and all and we told him he wasn't going to get the child.

Beth: 28:36

Pam is confirming everything I reported on the first season of this podcast that MOVE had a judge that they were influencing in Philadelphia. He retired. Another judge came in who looked at it and said there was no reason that John couldn't see his own son. She ruled on that and then she turned it over to New Jersey where it should have been from the beginning. And then she turned it over to New Jersey where it should have been from the beginning. Pam, talking about Zachary, as our child also shows you how MOVE saw children. They are the property of MOVE. They are the property of the leader. Also, Pam is fully admitting that she was putting out information to international supporters about John Gilbride and asking them to write in emails and make calls, harassing the judge. And if you remember, Kevin Price talked about a flyer that Alberta and Rhea wrote up and told him and other MOVE supporters to distribute in the neighborhood of Judge Shelly Robbins. New, that's harassment. And my last point is that Pam is admitting that John had a court order to see his own son.

Pam: 29:52

He came back a second time with his cousins and them from the police department. He was told then again that he wasn't going to get them. Then it was in the news media, this back and forth thing, because we had boarded up our house and was preparing for whatever they had to come with. Because there's no way in the world and we're committed to John Africa, we're committed to our children that we will allow an insane maniac and of course it also said it too to come in there and take our child.

Ramona: 30:22

Our position was that John could see his son. That's right. My sister, alberta, and this organization never denied him the opportunity to, you know, visit with his son and, you know, have interaction with him. We never denied him that. The only problem.

Mike : 30:39

We got to push him closer to that Exactly. I mean, that's Mike Africa. Yeah, that's Mike Africa from the MOVE organization.

Beth: 30:46

Enter Michael Davis, who you know as Mike Africa Jr. Now, this is 20 years ago. Mike is 26 years old.

Mike : 30:55

Ever since this whole thing kicked off, the thing that we were upset about was the fact that he left his son MOVE people, MOVE people, MOVE people never denied him or said that he couldn't visit him. We, we tried to push them close together. It was him and it was his parents that were um, pushing like you know, moving away and wanting to. You know they were causing all kinds of problems and and and following things in the courts, but MOVE all we ever do. Our belief is family. Our belief is life. You know, mothers being with their children, fathers being with their children that's what our belief is about. That's why we fight so hard for our people.

Mike : 31:31

That's in prison. My mother and my father are in prison and been in prison all my life. I was born in prison and MOVE belief. This is why this is so upsetting to us, because we ain't never discouraged nobody to be close to their parents. You know that's our belief. And for them to put all of these things on the news and it's just, it's a blatant disregard for the child who they say they love so much or care for. You know it's total hatred. You know what kind of person would put something out about a child on the news and make him feel uncomfortable around his family.

Beth: 32:06

And you'll notice that Mike Africa Jr is Mike Africa because his father's in prison, so he's not going by Jr and he's a little bit rusty. He's not as polished as he is now and he's very excited to be on the radio, to be given this activity by Alberta to go on and defend, MOVE and defend her and to smear John and his parents after John has been murdered. What you'll notice that is the same about Mike Africa and Mike Africa Jr, 20 years apart. About Mike Africa and Mike Africa Jr, 20 years apart.

Mike : 32:46

He loves to talk, especially when there's a microphone in front of him. You know people who these are the only people who he's ever been around all his life and they will put this stuff out and try and make him feel you know whatever they're trying to do and this. But this is what this system is about. This is what the news media is about. These people ain't out there to put out the news, you know. They ain't out there to put out the facts. They out there to try to do the system's work.

Mike : 33:06

And look, you know all kind of things happen with MOVE, where MOVE people been been been killed by the, by police 11 people, you know, and people previously to May 13th, you know, but you know MOVE never been killed. And even the fact that nine people are in prison for a crime that they didn't commit, everybody know they didn't commit it. Even the judge himself said that he don't know who killed that cop, judge Malmon. But he put those people in prison anyway, despite the fact that he couldn't prove it and knew that they didn't do it. It's a known fact that MOVE people we ain't no murderers, ain't nobody walking around with. No, you know, MOVE people ain't never killed nobody. You know, our belief is life. We won't step on an ant.

Beth: 33:50

You know, I've been riding a bike and fell off my bike because I didn't want to run over an ant To prove MOVE isn't violent, he says he once fell off his bike just to avoid running over an ant An ant while riding a bike. I shouldn't have to point out how small an ant is. But here we are. This is a tactic Exaggerate innocence to deflect scrutiny, Because if he's the kind of guy who saves ants, how could he possibly be tied to anything darker?

Mike : 34:18

You know, this is the kind of belief that Moo have. We are respectful of life and we wouldn't kill an ant or you know, any other form of life, definitely wouldn't kill. You know our brother's father, you know. But you know this is what this system is about. They're out there, they put, they demonize the organization because they want people to have their own opinion about Moo, because of what Moo is about, what Moo believe in, you know, because they don't believe in life, they believe in death and that's all they advocate. You know. But look, the MOVE organization is out here to put out information and that's all we've been doing. And murder ain't have murder, don't come into play with that.

Ramona: 34:54

It certainly doesn't. And one thing that people really need to understand when we talk about this government's hatred, this system's hatred of MOVE and how they want to stop this organization, eliminate, exterminate this organization, we're not just talking about words, cody. I mean. The example speaks for itself. Look at May 13th.

Beth: 35:20

Of course Ramona is going to bring up May 13th, Any examination of MOVE over their entire 50-year history. If they don't want to answer questions or if they want to distract you, they bring up May 13th. At this point in the broadcast Cody Anderson has to take a commercial break and when he comes back somebody comes on from MOVE that is never given the microphone but has been in the organization since 1980.

Cody Anderson: 35:50

How you doing, Teresa.

Theresia: 35:51

I'm okay On the move.

Cody Anderson: 35:53

On the move. You're the only one I haven't heard from yet.

Beth: 35:56

This is Teresa Africa, not the one that died on May 13th 1985, inside of 6-2-2-1 Osage. That was 26-year-old Teresa Brooks. This is the other Teresa, teresa Goodloe. She got pulled in to move while Vincent Lepart and his inner circle were hiding out in Rochester, new York.

Theresia: 36:15

Yeah, I was just sitting in the back listening to them talking, trying to get my thoughts together. But what I'm saying is that if John's father comes to Alberta's house every three months to see his son I mean to see his grandson and if he thought for one minute that Moo was a murderer of his son, why would he be coming there to see his son? If he thought that, you know, his mother was coming there until she passed away, you know, if they thought that for sure, why would they put themselves in jeopardy like that to come there to their house? But at the same time, john knew that we wasn't trying to hurt him. He knew that and he even at times have said that. But you know, he was just saying that he couldn't do it. He just was too weak to be here, you know.

Theresia: 37:02

But what they're trying to do now is railroad move peoples, and they've been doing this ever since I can remember. I came around in 81. And from that point on I seen how they was trying to railroad move peoples, even the ones that's doing 30 to 100 years now.

Beth: 37:19

Okay, I have a bit of a long footnote here. As part of move guidelines, teresa Goodloe was mate-matched on the orders of Vincent Leapheart In 1985, her mate was James Conrad Hampton, aka Conrad Africa, who was the uncle by marriage to Consuela Dotson, aka Consuela Africa. Consuela had three children in MOVE Catricia Zanetta and Lionel. Lionel was successfully removed by Child Protective Services during the confrontation on August 8, 1978, when MOVE members surrendered and he was placed with his grandparents to be raised, his two sisters not so lucky, and they died in MOVE on May 13, 1985. It is believed that Conrad is the father of Zanetta, meaning that while he was married to Consuela's mother's sister and in move, he impregnated Consuela in 1971 when she was a 17-year-old teen.

Beth: 38:18

Mom Conrad Hampton dies in the 1985 confrontation. Teresa's activity that day and the days leading up to May 13th did not include being inside 6-2-2-1 Osage. I do know that she packed up her belongings from 6-2-2-1 Osage the day before, on May 12th. Teresa Goodloe remains in MOVE after 1985, and she meets John Gilbride in the summer of 1985, when he attends the hearings for Ramona's criminal trial and then he is recruited into MOVE as a supporter and then the mate of Alberta and then the father of Zachary. As a MOVE member, teresa was aware when John escaped MOVE and then came back with a lawyer filing for divorce and for visitation and partial custody.

Theresia: 39:11

She even hooked up a room so that John and his son could be there if he wasn't comfortable with coming there like that. She was always. I was there several times when, you know, john was asked to come whenever he wanted to to see his son. You know she tried to make you know things good for John and his son, but John just refused it because he was listening to his mother, father. Whoever you know within the government, you know, and I feel like this, that the government put John up to a lot of this stuff.

Beth: 39:45

Teresa knew John very well but has never spoken about him publicly except in this recording. As far as I can tell, teresa's former mate, mario, has been on this podcast. Teresa's daughter, maria, has been on this podcast, was featured in the Inquirer story and went on WURD in 2021 with her allegations that Move is a cult, homophobic, racist, colorist and not who they claim to be. Mike has to weigh in again.

Mike : 40:19

You look at what actually happened. What they say happened to John, I mean what happened to him, what they said happened to him, the way he was shot, that was like assassin yeah, special operations, assassination, stuff that happened to him. I mean the way that the whole. You know, there's all kinds of things that could have possibly happened. We don't know exactly for sure. But even from what they are saying, this is stuff that they do. This is the things that they do. They got movies about it, enemy of the State, and look what they did to Malcolm X and all of these different people that their pattern shows.

Beth: 40:56

Mike and Move love to compare themselves to Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, that they are of that status of importance in the civil rights movement and that they are being persecuted by the government and that John Gilbride's murder is part of that persecution.

Mike : 41:16

You know it speaks for itself. I mean, you ain't got to go no further than that. I mean, just look at the pattern of move. Look at how we we've never you know you've constantly seen move people. You know, uh, um, doing what we do as far as putting out information, and you know physical activities and taking care of our children, and uh, you ain't never seen you doing what they do. You know it's all kinds of speculations about what they do the Kennedy assassination, Martin Luther King, malcolm X move. You know what I mean. This is what they do. This ain't this ain't our pattern, this ain't what we do, and we ain't going to stop doing what we do. We're going to continue to do what we do and we know that they're going to continue to do what they do.

Beth: 41:54

So that's Mike in February 2005. In 2024, mike publishes a memoir titled On a Move Philadelphia's Notorious Bombing and a Native Son's Lifelong Battle for Justice. This book was released by Mariner Books, which is a publishing imprint of HarperCollins with Dee Watkins, an author and journalist known for his work with Salon and for books that often explore identity, loyalty and power structures. Mike and Dee Watkins did a number of interviews and appearances promoting this book. I've read all 287 pages of it twice with a highlighter in hand. I also listened to the audiobook version, which Mike narrates himself. So next you're going to hear Mike in his own voice reading from his own book, talking about John Gilbride. I'll pop in when needed to add context, fact check and raise a few questions.

Mike Africa Jr. : 42:57

I felt like I had a real village. My family unit was tight. I felt like I had a real village. My family unit was tight. Robin and I moved as one and our boys were growing and thriving In move. Though by the end of 2001, things weren't going so smoothly. A dramatic custody battle was underway and I had to pick a side. After Benny was killed in the bombing, his MOVE wife, bert, married again. Her husband, john Gilbride, was a MOVE supporter and not a member like Bert. Members carried the surname Africa and were made members by Benny or they were children of the original MOVE members. Usually members had a deeper commitment to Benny. Move always had more supporters than actual members. So MOVE member Bert married MOVE supporter John. They were married about eight years and had a son named Zachary they. At the time of their split, zach was five years old.

Beth: 44:00

John literally escaped move in August 1998. Zach was a little over two years old and John had been married to Alberta since February 1992, so six and a half years. Their divorce was finalized in the year 2000.

Mike Africa Jr. : 44:18

John wanted joint custody, Burt wanted full custody. It led to a very public feud, one of those nasty, disgusting fights over a child and a mystifying one. During the custody battle, Burt and John spent a lot of time together outside of court. She would cook him breakfast in the morning before they stood in front of the judge and squared off and hurled hateful statements at each other. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen.

Beth: 44:47

I can't imagine where Mike is getting this information from about John having breakfast with Alberta while in the midst of a very bitter divorce and custody battle. John was scared of move. His family was scared of Move.

Mike Africa Jr. : 45:05

John was a good dude. From what I observed, he was a person whom I considered a friend beyond Move, probably the only person like that for me at that point.

Beth: 45:16

Mike calling John a good dude. From what I observed, that's not just couching, that's insurance in case a past version comes back to bite Mike in the ass. Case in point WURD 2005.

Mike Africa Jr. : 45:34

Move people didn't have outside friends. We had supporters and we had other members have outside friends. We had supporters and we had other members. We also had blood relatives outside of MOVE, but interaction with them was seldom Nearly all our lives were spent with MOVE people.

Mike Africa Jr. : 45:50

I think John and I got along well and really enjoyed each other's company because we had interests in common that had nothing to do with MOVE. I didn't have many people in my life who shared those interests. My peers in MOVE, meaning those in the second generation, didn't grow up doing what I was accustomed to doing. They didn't watch basketball and they didn't watch football. They weren't involved in competitions. They didn't go to the playground and play organized sports. John did. So we got kind of close discussing those things together, with or without Move. John could have been a friend of mine. He took me to my first and second Philadelphia 76ers game. It was so much fun because it was uncharacteristic of Move to be there. We ate hot dogs. I wasn't supposed to be eating. We drank soda. I wasn't supposed to be drinking. We were playing hooky from life. It was such a breath of fresh air. When Bert and John split up I was surprised.

Beth: 46:55

From the time Zach was born until the day John escapes MOVE Alberta, subjects him to relentless verbal and physical abuse through group MOVE meetings that involved dozens of MOVE members, all there to humiliate and break him down. It wasn't done in secret. It was a warning to everyone else. Step out of line, and this could be you.

Mike Africa Jr. : 47:20

None of it was my business. I was happy for it to be none of my business. Then Bert asked me to testify on her behalf and make it my business. Bert was one of the most important people in MOVE, especially after Benny was killed.

Beth: 47:35

I know it, you know it and Mike knows it. Bert was not just an important person in MOVE after Benny, which is Vincent, lepart, which is John Africa, burt was the leader. Today, in 2025, burt still asserts that she is the leader of MOVE, not Mike.

Mike Africa Jr. : 47:56

My first instinct was to protect her. Protecting Burt felt like protecting move itself. So I agreed to testify against John. I showed up to court and told the judge that I believe John was not a great father. I had seen John with Zach. John didn't know how to hold Zach and wouldn't listen to Bert about how to do it. He worked 100 hours a week every week and wasn't listen to Bert about how to do it. He worked 100 hours a week every week and wasn't home much. I had experience with fatherhood at that point and had set a high bar for it. I knew I didn't clear the bar myself some of the times, but I wasn't going to lower it to make it easier to clear for myself or for John. That was how I thought of it at the time.

Mike Africa Jr. : 48:43

The judge asked me particular questions. I gave him very precise answers. I knew my testimony surprised John. I'd like to think that he understood, but I never asked and he never said. What I do remember is that during a questioning session in court the judge asked John if he missed any moved people. John said he did. The judge asked who, and John said he missed me. I missed him too.

Beth: 49:13

I don't have the transcript pages of John's testimony, but I do have six years of research and common sense and I can't think of a single scenario where a man fighting to get his four-year-old son out of a cult would say he missed a guy who just took the stand and lied about him.

Mike Africa Jr. : 49:31

After some deliberation, the court sided with John. He and Bert were shared custody of their son. I didn't think that was bad. After all, Bert and John basically behaved as if they shared custody of Zach anyway. John was frequently at Bert's house when he wasn't working. To me it almost seemed like Bert was low-key, trying to get back with him.

Beth: 49:57

Bert was not low-key, trying to get back together with John. She was trying to control him. She was trying to intimidate him.

Mike Africa Jr. : 50:09

But the court's decision outraged Burt. She felt like a grave injustice had been carried out. I think she remembered how Benny acted in court and won and thought she'd have similar good fortune. The night before the first scheduled child custody exchange was filled with anticipation. We weren't sure how Burt was going to react to handing over her son. But we MOVE members had made up our minds that if she decided she didn't want to give Zach to John, we were not going to let John have Zach. To give Zach to John, we were not going to let John have Zach.

Mike Africa Jr. : 50:44

Just months earlier Whit had come to the King Sessing house to support Bert on this issue. She brought with her her clothes, a sleeping bag, food and her four kids. Whit told her husband she'd come back home when Bert's custody matter was resolved. Three or four other MOVE mothers did the same. We slatted up the King Sessing house, just like in the confrontations at Palton in the 70s and at Osage in the 80s. My father and Chuck were outraged at Burt's decision to involve MOVE members in her custody drama, especially since John had a right to see his own son. Dad tried to convince Whit and me to leave King Sesson, but we refused. We all went to bed ready for a confrontation, but that never happened.

Mike Africa Jr. : 51:29

I woke up early the next morning to Pam yelling John is dead. John is dead. She was listening to 1340 am when Philadelphia radio icon Mary Mason announced the news. We were all stunned. John had been shot through his car window as he sat in the parking lot of his apartment building.

Mike Africa Jr. : 51:52

Move was among the top suspects. Police brought every Move man in for questioning. I remember being brought in. They questioned me for several hours. Nothing ever came from my questioning or from the questioning of anyone else in move. Bert later told me that John had gambling debts in the hundreds of thousands of dollars but the police never had enough evidence to charge anyone and all the leads were apparently dead ends to charge anyone and all the leads were apparently dead ends. The case went cold. No arrests were made. No murder weapon was ever found. After a while I was too disturbed by the developments to hear any more about it. I have deliberately not followed the story of John Gilbride's killing even all these years later. I've not read the articles or watched the stories and I would tune out when Bert talked about John in a negative way.

Beth: 52:45

Mike is claiming he has deliberately avoided the news stories about John's 2002 murder, even all these years later. That directly contradicts his 2005 WURD appearance, his public support for Burt after John's death and what I know from multiple sources. Mike has listened to this podcast and he's furious about it. So if a person is trying to distance themselves from an unsolved murder connected to MOVE, why write about John at all? And then why say this?

Mike Africa Jr. : 53:21

His murder fucked me up.

Beth: 53:23

His murder fucked me up. That's what Mike wrote, that's what he recorded for the audiobook and honestly, I'd love to hear more about that, because I know John's murder devastated his parents, his siblings, his friends, his co-workers and even other MOVE members who now believe the group that they say is a cult was involved.

Mike Africa Jr. : 53:47

I regret getting involved in the custody battle between him and Burt, even as I look back and know why I did it. Anytime the battle lines felt like MOVE versus another person or entity, I had been taught from birth always to pick move.

Beth: 54:04

Now, before we get back in the audio time machine to 2005, I'm going to stop briefly. In 2020, February 2020, to be exact, in a podcast studio on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, where I live, Mike was in town for some Move speaking engagements and he agreed to sit down for a second in-person interview with me. As always, I start with consent, Like do you consent for the recording for this podcast? Sure, Okay, Mike and I sat across from each other in front of two microphones for 90 minutes. Our conversation covered a lot of different questions I had about MOVE, about him and about John Gilbride. For the purposes of this episode, which is examining MOVE members' own words about John over what is now 25 years, I am sharing select excerpts that reflect what Mike was saying about John five years ago. Mind you, this is not everything Mike had to say about John in that conversation. John Gilbride, you know I'm only going off of news reports, so I wanted to get your take.

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:18

What do you want to know?

Beth: 55:20

What do you want to tell me?

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:23

You know it's tragic that John Gilbride ain't here anymore.

Mike : 55:27

You know John was my friend and even though he didn't get along or the marriage between him and Alberta didn't last he was my friend.

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:39

It's a tragedy that he's not here.

Beth: 55:43

He was murdered.

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:44

That's what the paper said.

Beth: 55:46

What do you think?

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:47

I mean, I have no idea.

Beth: 55:51

There was a body.

Mike Africa Jr. : 55:53

I didn't see one. I don't know. I mean, I'm not disputing it, I'm just saying I don't know.

Beth: 55:58

I continued to ask Mike direct questions about John Alberta, the 2000 custody hearings and MOVE's coordinated efforts to intimidate John into dropping his legal fight for unsupervised visits with Zach. I didn't go looking for this, you know. It's like I got into this to do a historical documentary podcast and this came up and I just couldn't. I was shocked. I was like this is so strange and the efforts at King Sessing sort of mimicking 85 to like make a point and make a stance, was a little chilling, I have to say. You can imagine like maybe that scared you too.

Mike Africa Jr. : 56:45

I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to.

Mike : 56:48

I wanted to. I definitely wanted to represent my family.

Mike Africa Jr. : 56:54

And I definitely wanted to, but it wasn't.

Mike : 56:56

I mean, I don't go around looking for slats to board up my windows.

Mike Africa Jr. : 57:02

You know it's just what happened and it's what happened. You know His wife that he remarried or he married after. I don't know anything about her. I saw her face once.

Beth: 57:18

In a picture or in person.

Mike Africa Jr. : 57:23

In person. Well, well, let me say, I saw what I thought may have been his wife once.

Beth: 57:29

Where did you see she?

Mike Africa Jr. : 57:29

was she was he was, he was he was. It was a thing he was doing and maybe he was leaving Alberta's house or something and she was in a car. I saw a woman with him.

Beth: 57:44

Now I'm going to rewind 15 years to where I started this episode, february 2005, wurd Radio Studios in Philadelphia. On the mic, jeanette Knighton Patton, aka Pam Africa, minister of Confrontation for MOVE.

Pam: 58:03

What I want to point out you know we say long live John Africa Number one that the courts did not get the child and have him with the father and because if what they say happened, that child could have been in a car with John. One thing is clear that we found out afterwards this man had a drug problem. Us Air was getting ready to put him in a rehab. I'm saying we have darn good reason for not allowing him to take the child away from the home.

Beth: 58:36

Fact check John Gilbride did not have a drug problem and US Air was not putting him in rehab. This is a lie.

Pam: 58:43

Gambling problem. He had one of the days that he was going to have this big press conference and he was coming with the police to get his child. Vernon Odom told us the reason why he wasn't there is because he went to Las Vegas.

Beth: 58:58

Fact check John Gilbride did not have a gambling problem. He had a move problem. He was in debt because of move, the custody battle and the lawyer's fees. And yes, he did go to Las Vegas. That is true. He was told to get out of town by Cherry Hill Police after he went to go pick up Zachary and Zachary wasn't there. This was a week before John is murdered.

Pam: 59:25

And then he had this big his bills wasn't paid, his rent wasn't paid, his cards, he wasn't paying child support and getting ready to put him in a rehab. I'm saying none of this do the news media put out.

Beth: 59:42

Fact check True, the media did not publish that John Gilbride had a drug problem. The media did not publish that John Gilbride had money problems. The media did publish when Captain Fisher from Civil Affairs asserted that John might have gambling problems. And if you listen to season one, you know that Move concocted that story and put it out there publicly.

Pam: 1:00:06

You know, and the mere fact you know, I dare them question us. And when they didn't question the officials who stepped in from criminal court and never talked with my sister, never talked with the child, never talked, as far as I know, with the judge who said that this man could not take that child from the premises, give him a court order, court blanked, to take this child away and then one week later the man winds up dead and all these questions come out. I'm saying, you know, we resent this government and we resent the media who is hiding this. You know information, you know about what's going on.

Cody Anderson: 1:00:45

Let me take a break. You're listening to WURD 900 on the AM dial. The program is sold to sell. My guests this afternoon are Ramona, pam Teresa and Mike. Africa will be back.

Beth: 1:00:57

This 2005 WURD interview. What you just heard, that was only half of it. There's another 45 minutes to go Because move and systems and individuals like move long sermons, long speeches, long interviews. It's a classic narcissistic tactic. They talk and talk and talk until you forget what the original question even was. It's exhausting, it's disorienting, and that's by design, because when you're tired you stop asking questions, you tune out, you turn it off, and that's how they keep control of the narrative. But I don't turn it off and clearly neither do you. Here's what you're really listening to. It's a scripted performance written and directed by Alberta Wicker Gilbride, aka Alberta Africa, the leader of Move, and it's performed by her loyal, unquestioning followers. Her actors, the ones in the WURD studio are the featured players. They get top billing. What you're going to hear in part two the guest players delivering their performance for Move via phone.

Cody Anderson: 1:02:13

Hey, good afternoon. How are you?

Ramona: 1:02:16

Pam, we're going to start Sean.

Cody Anderson: 1:02:19

good afternoon.

Beth: 1:02:20

Good afternoon, but you're also going to hear what happens when a defector gets through to the live broadcast.

Cody Anderson: 1:02:27

Tony, yes, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you?

Beth: 1:02:30

Good.

Cody Anderson: 1:02:31

I actually had a question for Pam and Ramona. What happened to John Gilbride?

Beth: 1:02:37

That's going to be part two.

Pam: 1:02:39

We knew exactly where you lived at. When you was lying, you worked. You know where you worked at.

Beth: 1:02:44

Another hour with Move, in their own words. Thanks for listening. See you next week. I came upon something the other day that I hadn't seen before and I wanted to share it with you. It's from the Courier Post Monday, may 5th 2003,.

Beth: 1:03:04

Gilbride John, happy birthday, john, may 5th 1968 through September 26th 2002. Not a day goes by that you are not talked about, missed and loved. You're our hero and shining star. Your laughter echoes in our minds and your smile shines in our hearts. You will always be loved. Your family, mom, dad, grandmom, kathy, alicia, zach, jason, alec and Steve. This is what John's family decided to do instead of an obituary in September 2002. They wanted to celebrate his life on the day that he was born, on the day that he would have been 35 had he not been murdered.

Beth: 1:03:54

If you have any information about Lumia, the murder of John Gilbride, the whereabouts of missing child Shada Holloway, please reach out. I will speak to you on or off the record. You can reach me on socials or email me directly. Murder at ryan's run at gmailcom. I also love to hear from you whether you have questions or comments or tips. To definitely reach out. Please follow us on social media, check out the website and if you could rate and review the podcast and share it five stars would be awesome. That would be great. That way people can find us. This podcast is researched, written, edited, hosted and produced by me, Beth McNamara. Additional archival research from the great Robert Helms, aka my West Philadelphia anarchist cat daddy and ride or die. Again, thanks for listening and I'll talk to you soon.