Murder at Ryan's Run: exposing the cult of John Africa
A true crime investigation exposing the Philadelphia cult operating as the MOVE Organization. Told by survivors and insiders, Murder At Ryan’s Run reveals abuse, lies, and lost lives—plus exclusive tapes, FBI files, and real-time reporting of a daring cult escape. This is the story MOVE leaders don’t want you to hear.
Murder at Ryan's Run: exposing the cult of John Africa
MOVE lies about John Gilbride Part 2- Look Who's Talking
*warning: discussion of violence, threats, and the use of a racial slur that is explained but is censored.
What happens when a cult's carefully crafted narrative faces public scrutiny? The answer lies in this shocking exploration of MOVE's 2005 radio appearance and their confrontation with America's Most Wanted five years later.
Following Fox 29's coverage of John Gilbride's unsolved murder, MOVE members secured two hours of airtime on Philadelphia's WURD Radio. What unfolded wasn't a defense or clarification—it was a masterclass in manipulation tactics. Through strategic deflection, character assassination, and veiled threats, they demonstrated exactly how high-control groups maintain their grip on both members and public perception.
The broadcast reveals multiple layers of MOVE's operational playbook. When former MOVE member Tony Allen calls in to ask what happened to John Gilbride, he's immediately attacked as "nobody" and "a cop"—classic dehumanization techniques designed to silence dissent.
Meanwhile, Gary Wonderlin (who married MOVE leader Alberta weeks after John's murder) calls in under an alias, and it seems that pretending to be someone else is kind of his "thing".
Most revealing is what happened in 2010 when America's Most Wanted was producing an episode about Gilbride's murder and was seeking comment from Alberta and MOVE - a profanity-laden confrontation captured by multiple cameras that ended in a racial slur.
This pattern of deflection, intimidation, and narrative control isn't random—it's calculated. By examining these tactics through the lens of cult psychology, we gain crucial insight into how MOVE has avoided accountability for decades while simultaneously portraying themselves as victims.
For those seeking the truth about John Gilbride's unsolved murder, this episode provides essential context for understanding why this case remains open. The question remains: if MOVE truly had nothing to hide, why go to such extraordinary lengths to shut down legitimate questions about the murder of someone they knew very well?
If you have any information about the John Gilbride unsolved homicide case , The Burlington County Prosecutor's Office tip line email is tips@co.burlington.nj.us. This email address can be used to report information about a crime or incident. Additionally, you can reach the office through their website, burlpros.org, or contact the Victim Witness Unit at 609.265.5048.
We love hearing from you so text us here or reach out on social media. Thanks for listening.
The producers of this podcast wish to stress that all individuals reference in this series are presumed innocent unless or until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law in the United States of America.
Executive Produced, reported, hosted, and edited by Beth McNamara
Additional research by Robert Helms
Murder At Ryan's Run
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If you have questions, comments, tips, or media inquiries, please reach out on social media or via email: murderatryansrun@gmail.com
All individuals referenced in this podcast are presumed to be innocent unless or until they are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a United States court of law.
In the last episode you heard the first half of a 2005 broadcast from WURD Radio featuring MOVE members Ramona Johnson, aka Ramona Africa, Jeanette Knighton Patton aka Pam Africa, Michael Davis aka Mike Africa Jr and Teresa Goodloe aka Teresa Africa. They were there because MOVE was furious the night before Fox 29 had aired a segment on the unsolved murder of John Gilbride, former MOVE member, ex-husband of their leader, alberta Wicker, aka Alberta Africa, and father of her son and his son, Zackary. They said they were angry because MOVE members were shown in the segment, which makes sense. John lived with many of them for years inside MOVE headquarters and when he left the group and Alberta and took her to court for custody of their son, Alberta made sure it was very public. Alberta sent MOVE members out to be photographed, interviewed and filmed for the local news as part of her campaign to intimidate John. So of course Fox 29 is going to use that footage Immediately.
Beth:Move was demanding equal time from Fox. Their demands were met with silence or, more accurately, with journalistic integrity no favor, no fear, no microphone. So MOVE goes where they do have sway Sway they've cultivated for decades as part of what they call quote unquote, putting out information, which includes building relationships with media figures they can count on, and one of those people at this time was Cody Anderson at WURD. Cody took a commercial break, and that's where I paused too, but now he's back and he's going to the phones. This is part two of Move on WURD, february 22, 2005.
Cody Anderson:Okay, we're back and we thank you for your patience of MOVE on WURD, february 22, 2005. Okay, we're back. We thank you for your patience and they've indicated that they will take calls. So you can call us at 215-634-8065 in Philadelphia and in the suburbs and surrounding areas it's 1-866-361-0900. All of our lines are busy right now so you can try as you hear one hang up.
Beth:As WURD host and general manager, cody Anderson, just said, there were callers that had been on hold waiting already, and they appear to be familiar, if not very friendly to move, and maybe even new to call in Take a lesson.
Cody Anderson:We're going to go first to a caller who is calling from Chicago. Hello, good afternoon, eileen.
Speaker 3:Hey, good afternoon. How are?
Ramona:you.
Speaker 3:Pam Ramona.
Ramona:Bon amour, Eileen.
Speaker 3:Brother Mike, listen, I didn't know what the issue was, but when I received the information that you were going to be on, I had to call. And I don't know what the issue is with the child custody and the death of John. But I just want to say that we understand what's happening and has happened and continues to happen with this government and I would say that this woman, rosella, we know that nothing goes on without the government knowing correct. So they certainly know, and I would say that maybe she was a member of their organization.
Ramona:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Ramona:They know everything that's happening with this woman. If what they're saying is true that he was married to this woman from the Dominican Republic they know everything about it yes. And I'm just wondering, is it verified insinuate itself in people's minds to try to convince them that Moo are murderers, that we are behind the death of John Gilbride, if he is truly dead?
Speaker 3:Yes, you're absolutely right, and certainly. I believe that the public knows, because MOVE's reputation stands for itself.
Ramona:Absolutely.
Mike:Yes, absolutely yes, and their reputation stands for itself Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And their reputation stands for itself. Yes, I was waiting quite a while, so I'm going to have to get off. I just want to say On A MOVE.
Pam:Thanks a lot, Aline.
Cody Anderson:Ready for the next caller. You guys are going to have to help me because right now I don't have my headphones. When you're done, you just say we'll go to the next caller. Who is it? Malcolm? Sean, good afternoon good afternoon.
Gary/Sean:Um, I just wanted to put out that if the uh government wants to use the news, media as it's doing on and off with um you know, hurting the people's movement, then they should suffer some heat. And if they are going to broadcast that same crap tonight, people need to see who the advertisers are at the time and then contact those advertisers and tell them that they're paying money to, you know, to the channel TV station to put out propaganda for the government they have, you know. You know the news media is going to have to suffer some heat for this.
Beth:Sean is Gary Wonderlin, a longtime MOVE member who often used the alias of Sean when he would write letters to the editor or call radio stations, etc. Gary Wonderlin married Alberta Wicker Gilbride in November 2002, five weeks after John's murder.
Ramona:Well, the TV station should definitely be dealt with, and going to the advertisers is certainly a way to do that. We wanted to bring the truth to the public and you know that's why we wanted to come on this show. But, yes, people should be incensed by this kind of treachery, and going after the advertisers is a way to to make their voices heard and also the find out who the owner is of the station itself.
Gary/Sean:The owners of these uh out there, sure they need. They need to feel the heat if they're willing to sell their soul.
Ramona:Right.
Beth:Thank you very much All right on the move. That was Gary Wonderlin using an alias in 2005. I'm going to play Gary Wonderlin not using an alias in 2021. This is audio from the podcast episode Knock Knock. I went to Gary and Alberta's house in Cherry Hill and knocked on the front door. Hi, gary, I'm Beth McNamara. Hi, hi, I reached out to you a few months ago. I'm the one who's looking into John.
Ramona:Gilbride's murder.
Beth:His first reaction is the weather.
Gary/Harry/Sean:Oh yeah, the public doesn't know anything. You have to talk to the people that were involved with it the prosecutors, the police, the newspaper reporters but you knew, john, but the general public doesn't have anything to do with it. You have to talk to people that were involved?
Beth:I have, but they're the only ones that know anything.
Gary/Harry/Sean:But he was married to Alberta and then you married Alberta very shortly afterwards Talk to the Courier Post, The Burlington County Times and The Inquirer reporters and photographers.
Beth:Why? What would they say?
Gary/Harry/Sean:Oh, they'll give you an earful, they'll tell you it didn't even happen.
Beth:Gary is letting the storm door close. Wait a second, Gary. You're saying that John wasn't killed?!?
Gary/Harry/Sean:Yes! They'll tell you, the reporters, they never saw anything.
Beth:What about you? Did you see pictures of his dead body when you went in to talk to the police? Didn't you go in to see the police? Did they show you pictures of his dead body?
Gary/Harry/Sean:You could talk to the people across. You could ask anybody in the world. The only people that know about it are the cops.
Beth:I have talked to everybody. I want to talk to you.
Gary/Harry/Sean:But the public doesn't know anything.
Beth:But you know John, you knew John. You sold him this house.
Gary/Harry/Sean:But you have to talk to me
Beth:you married his ex-wife.
Gary/Sean:Talk to the reporters.
Beth:I have talked to the reporters. I want to talk to you because you know stuff, gary.
Gary/Sean:Oh my God, they are the ones that know something
Beth:gary. Gary, I
Gary/Harry/Sean:Talk to the FBI,
Beth:Gary! That's it. He just closed the door. Gary, I'm going to leave my card. I leave my bright pink business card on the front porch and I walk away as I hear Gary on the phone. And I walk away as I hear Gary on the phone. I later find out he has called MOVE headquarters in Philadelphia, the one on Kingsessing Avenue. That's no longer there. More on that in an upcoming episode
Beth:.
Beth:I later hear that Gary got into a lot of trouble with his wife and MOVE leader, alberta, for speaking to me, and this was three weeks before the podcast was even released. To date, which is June 2025, gary has never reached out to me and for a couple years now he has not been on social media. And then someone sends me a Facebook account. The name on the Facebook account is Harry Donnelly, but the profile photo is Gary. The posts and stories are not about Move or Mumia. They're all about being vegan and an animal rights protester activist in Philadelphia, new Jersey and New York City. So Gary Harry is doing sidewalk chalk messages, volunteering with groups that rescue cows and pigs, filming his protests against foie gras restaurants. Based on his posts, harry Donnelly is a very committed, busy and celebrated vegan activist and, just like when he was in Move, he's always showing up.
Gary/Harry/Sean:American Vegan Society.
Beth:Now listen to this.
Gary/Harry/Sean:Sheila Technic is the American Vegan Society headquarters.
Beth:And he's willing to go as far as he is asked to for the cause, storming into a Max Mara store or into the lobby of a hotel or screaming outside someone's private home. These very intense, screaming and definitely younger than Gary activists. They know Gary as Harry and likely have zero idea of his involvement with MOVE. Some of Harry's fellow vegan activists know that he is down to use a false name because he did it at a public town meeting in Woodbridge, new Jersey, this past March.
Gary/Harry/Sean:Yeah, Sean O'Neill - Metuchen.
Beth:Gary Wonderlin.
Beth:as Harry Donnelly is now saying, his name is Sean O'Neill and that he's from Metuchen, new Jersey from Metuchen, new Jersey,
Gary/Harry/Sean:two meetings ago, you miraculously produced a veterinarian's report that said the animals in Sequest are. Quote sound.
Beth:Gary Harry Sean is here to protest the treatment of sea animals at a local aquarium.
Gary/Harry/Sean:Coincidentally it was done the day before, so we find the results of that veterinarian's report to be totally ludicrous. Who's we?
Beth:The town council member just asked who's ".
Gary/Harry/Sean:Me myself and I for one. Okay Right, it just seems ridiculous. It just seems like the council and the mayor are playing games and politics while animals are in there suffering. But last meeting, you all sat up there. You didn't say one word. You were like muted puppets because CBS TV camera was here on you. So you know, you are playing politics. You, all of you are not doing your jobs at all. You need to resign.
Beth:Based on his own words and actions. It seems to me that Gary is a very committed protester and whatever cause he is into at the moment, he gives what seems to be 200 percent, actually a thousand percent, whether that means time, money or risking arrest. I still cannot figure out who he really is. Is he Gary Wonderlin? Is he Harry Donnelly? Is there another name? But, most importantly, I can't figure out why he is still telling people in 2025 that John Gilbride was not murdered. He still says it's a government conspiracy and he says I'm involved in it because you see, I'm an FBI agent. Yeah, no, Okay, let's go back again, 20 years, 2005,. Wurd Studio.
Cody Anderson:I do have to tell you, before we go to our next call, that your family has done a great job with Mike. I remember from the time he was a child. I can't believe how he's grown. I agree. Well, you know.
Ramona:Cody. That is one example that this system, where nobody else can get around, our belief and what MOVE represents, is manifested in our children. Our children are not on drugs, they're not alcoholics. They don't drink, you know. They don't smoke, you know they're not. Even our younger children are not the kids that go around setting cats on fire, you know.
Beth:That's a pretty fucked up thing to say. I don't know too many kids setting cats on fire, do you? So why does Ramona go there? Well, MOVE does this a lot. They throw out something so extreme so that they can look good by comparison. Twelve years later, sitting next to Ramona in an on-camera interview conducted by high school students, Sue Levino, aka Sue, Africa, aka Rhea, does this again.
Beth:You will not find one of our young people that will ever pull wings off a butterfly. You will never find one of our young people that will light a cat on fire and lay it. They will stop a motherfucker from doing it Set the moral bar so absurdly low.
Ramona:Our kids don't abuse animals so that anything above that looks like a virtue. You know things like that. Our children take care of life, take care of animals. You know our older children look after the younger children, the babies, our youth. You know our young men and women like Mike and the other young people in the organization are strong, healthy, righteous. You know strong thinking people.
Cody Anderson:Yes, they are.
Ramona:Because of the teaching of John Africa.
Beth:It's deflection dressed up as moral clarity. If you've listened to this podcast, you know that underage girls were forced into quote-unquote matches, quote-unquote move marriages and forced to have children. You also know they've made allegations of child abuse physical, sexual, psychological. They were denied medical care. They were denied an education.
Ramona:Now anybody that want to come at MOVE and criticize us, criticize our belief, how we do things, how we live, dispute the example in our children.
Gary/Sean:That's true.
Ramona:Dispute that example and, like John Africa said, let those who would try to dispute move do it or be silenced. Let the disputer be silenced.
Cody Anderson:We're going to continue. We're going to Tony. Hello, Tony.
Beth:Former Move member Tony Allen has called in, and you just heard Pam Africa say oh great.
Cody Anderson:Tony, yes, how are you?
Cody:I'm doing well. How are you?
Cody Anderson:Good.
Cody:I actually had a question for Pam and Ramona. What happened to John Gilbride?
Beth:Former Move member. Now a trader is using what he was taught in Move against Move.
Ramona:You could tell us better than we know. We don't know anything about what happened to John Gilbride, but what we do know is that you're a person that has gone up on the internet.
Cody Anderson:If you want to take turns and listen to them, I'll allow you to continue. You can't talk at the same time.
Ramona:What we do know is that you are a person who you know appeared to be a supporter at one time and then suddenly left.
Beth:Tony was in move for eight years with his wife Lori. They lived in MOVE houses and for a time with Ramona. Tony and Lori followed the teachings of John Africa, took orders from leader Alberta and her inner circle, without question. But Ramona is reducing him to a supporter in the we don't really know him kind of deflection strategy. Him to a supporter in the we don't really know him kind of deflection strategy. Tony and Lori escaped move in 2004 and went public in an Inquirer story written by Monica Yankinny, who you have heard Ramona raging about in this same broadcast.
Ramona:And now you know you have gone up on the internet. You know, on all kinds of discussion boards you have hijacked people's email lists and emailed lies and disgruntled ramblings all over the place about MOVE, and we asked you for a face-to-face debate to air, you know, the things that you want to say and let us speak to it. Let us, you know, speak to our side. Let us tell the truth. And you wouldn't do it.
Cody:You know you wouldn't do it, but in terms of what happened Just a minute, I'm going to let you go. I'm going to let you go. Are you finished?
Ramona:In terms of what happened to John Gilbride? We don't have the faintest idea. What happened to John Gilbride? We don't have the faintest idea.
Cody:You said he was killed in a gambling debt.
Ramona:No we didn't. No, we did not.
Cody Anderson:They didn't say that here today.
Ramona:We spoke to the problems that he had, john.
Cody:Gilbride is not an enemy, and then, in a letter from Alberta, john Gilbride is an enemy. Why the repeated change of story.
Ramona:It's not a change of story Anybody that tries to take our children from us. Obviously. Obviously we got a problem with that.
Cody:James Ramp.
Ramona:Wait a minute.
Gary/Sean:We killed.
Cody:James.
Ramona:Ramp.
Cody:Of course you did. Well, not you, but the MOVE members that are in prison, james Ramp Of course you did.
Beth:Well, not you, but the MOVE members that are in prison. Nine MOVE members went to prison for 40 years on a 30 to 100 year sentence for the murder of James Ramp, A Philadelphia police officer killed on August 8th 1978, MOVE's first deadly confrontation.
Mike:For some reason, Ramona gives the mic to Mike.
Cody:Why would I go to a program after I've left Philadelphia and told people the reason that I left Philadelphia was behind the threats that MOVE made?
Mike:To who To who.
Cody:In my email box MOVE says you better watch your back. Who did we?
Mike:threaten.
Cody:You never know who's going to get it next. Why don't you say the whole?
Ramona:thing, tony. You were told that you better watch your back because the people that you're working with, unlike Moo, don't have no loyalty and that they will use you up and throw you away, use you for their own advantage and throw you away, just like they did.
Beth:Donald Glassie Used him up and then, during the federal case, when they finished with him, they came to Moo and offered us his address and phone number and everything, and we're told that we didn't want it. Ramona is losing her shit right now. She's going off the rails talking about Donald Glassie, who she didn't even know. Now Ramona is saying that the government gave move Donald Glassie's personal information and location, as if they were going to let Move just assassinate him or something, but Move chose not to.
Pam:Also, tony, listen to this. We you know our kids I mean our children came to your house and all delivered, you know, moved y'all into your home in Jersey. We knew exactly where you lived at when you was lying. You worked. You know where you worked at. We never even came to where you worked at, never came to your house. So what are you talking about? You went on that wait a minute. You went on the air I mean on the Internet lying and then saying that if you disappeared, the, look at move. If you got killed, look at move. What is wrong with you, Tony? I was killed before Move. If you got killed, look at move. What is wrong with you, tony? I was killed before. You have yet to be able to prove that.
Cody:How many?
Mike:times does move have to be before people? If you're so scared to move people, why are you on this radio right now talking all of this stuff? I mean, Don Glassie said that he was scared and we ain't heard nothing from him ever since him.
Cody:I don't know. I don't know if he ended up in a river like William.
Mike:What happened to your wife and your child?
Beth:I don't know. Here it is again Intimidation through denial. As I mentioned earlier, it is a documented psychological tactic used by coercive groups. They deny wrongdoing by pointing to harm they could have done but didn't, Framing it as a proof of innocence, while actually issuing a veiled threat. Now you're hearing that tactic used directly on Tony Allen, a former MOVE member, who calls in to confront them live on air. And it's not just one person doing it, it's Ramona, Pam and Mike all jumping in to say some version of we know where you live, we know where you work, we haven't come to your house, so why do you feel threatened? They even bring up Donald Glassie, a former MOVE supporter who testified against them decades ago. We know where he is and we didn't do anything to him either. This isn't a defense, it's a warning. It's about reminding defectors and anyone listening that MOVE doesn't forget that they could act, but they haven't. That's not comfort, that's pressure and it's meant to keep people quiet.
Ramona:The bottom line, Tony, is that you ain't saying nothing that the government ain't said ever since move and you. What you're saying ain't no more valid coming from you than it was from anybody over the past. You know 25, 30 years of this organization. You are nobody, tony.
Beth:Ramona cuts Tony off and gets the last word you are nobody, tony. That's not just an insult In psychological terms, it's erasure, dehumanization, a way to strip a critic of credibility, identity and worth. If you're nobody, nothing you say matters.
Cody Anderson:Let's move on to our next caller.
Beth:Cody Anderson intervenes in my opinion on behalf of MOVE, and then he takes this next caller Good afternoon, you're on the air.
Beth:Hello.
Cody Anderson:Hello.
Beth:Hi, my name is Tyena and I've been a supporter of Move for a few years now. I guess I just want to make some comments in regards to what I just heard.
Beth:the previous caller say Tyena and Tony knew each other. Tyena was photographed in New Jersey protesting against John Gilbride a week before he was murdered.
Beth:Can you hear me?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Beth:Okay, first of all, I just want to point out that this type of tactics that Tony is using and that other, like the media, is using are historical tactics that have been used since the beginning of time to justify the murdering of of people who are movement people, people who are in support of what's right.
Beth:Support of what's right.
Beth:That's move speak you know, and so the lies that tony is putting out, um, you know, monica yankinny, um, now you know Fox News insinuating this that this is a distraction from the reality, that this year marks the 20th year since the 1985 bombing of MOVE. And I don't care what Tony says or what anyone else says, the bombing that murdered 11 people, five children, was for all of the eyes to see. Okay, now you know, we don't know who killed John Gilbride, this, that and the third, but we certainly know who killed Move in 1985, on May 13th of 1985, don't we?
Beth:Another MoveSpeak thing is this that and the third Maybe it's a Philadelphia thing, but it's definitely a Move thing. And here Tyena is doing exactly what Ramona, pam and Mike did, deflecting back to May 13th 1985.
Ramona:We know who that was that's right.
Beth:Okay we know who has been murdering and committing genocide all across this. You know nation, all across this world, since you know, for over 500 years, don't we? That's right, this world since you know for over 500 years, don't we? So why are we going to go and point the fingers at move people who have, who have proven the example of loving life, of caring for life, of fighting for what's right, instead of pointing the fingers at the nasty people who've been murdering and killing our people for time and time again, these same people that Tony has admitted that he is?
Beth:now working with Another classic move tactic Discredit the defector by casting them as a traitor and a government agent. Not just wrong, but dangerous. Not just mistaken but aligned with the enemy. That's how cults and MOVE, in particular, protects their narrative Anyone who leaves becomes the villain.
Beth:Okay, these type of people he's now working with. He's said it, he's put it out there, you know, and I just think that that is just a distraction. And so what I wanted to put out was the reality that this year is, you know, the 20th year since the May 13th 1985 bombing, and we are not going to let them put this under the rug any longer. Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, we're going to be holding a major demonstration on 63rd and Osage on May 14th.
Beth:Tyena goes on and on for another four minutes straight about May 13th and promoting their commemorative program. That is three months away. Wurd then takes a long commercial break and when they come back it seems pretty clear that MOVE is still flustered by Tony Allen calling in.
Cody Anderson:Okay, we're back and we thank you for your patience. You're listening to WURD 900 on the dial. My guests this afternoon are ramona, pam theresa and mike africa, and uh, we're going to go back to our phones.
Ramona:We thank you for your patience let me just say one thing before the next caller comes on, because we want to point this out. This man admitted, you know, that he moved himself and family outside of Philadelphia yeah, tony Allen. And we want to know if he's not a cop, how did he find out even about this show, you know? How do you find out about it? We know that he's working with the cops, that he's a cop and that's how he gets all this information about what's happening with MOVE.
Beth:Instead of Ramona moving on from Tony, she keeps going, she is escalating it. She's claiming that Tony Allen is a cop. That is MOVE's go-to punch. Accuse the defector of being law enforcement, a plant, a traitor. And when they throw that punch they make sure to say the person's full name. It's not just slander, it's a signal they're putting a target on Tony's back.
Pam:Tony you know, prior to him going to Burlington.
Beth:When Pam says Burlington, she means the Burlington County Prosecutor's Office.
Pam:And when they brought different people down to interview him about the murder of John Gilbride, he was a person who wrote about the facts, in this case Right after he went down there and his wife was saying to the police station that there was something wrong with Tony. She was afraid for Tony. That's when my brother asked him where's your wife and child? But this man did a complete 360 degree and we're not forgetting John Gilbride and the exact same thing. You know he disappeared.
Beth:Pam has to take one last swipe at Tony. She can't resist. She needs to make sure that everyone knows he's a traitor, which is especially rich, considering Pam is the one who brought Tony into MOVE in the first place through Mumia Abu-Jamal. But MOVE never lingers too long on one defector. Pam is pivoting right back to John Gilbride, back to the man Alberta can't control, even in death. And the one move still needs you, the listener, to see as the real problem, the real villain.
Pam:This man was kidnapped one time by a. What?
Ramona:do you call them People that brainwash you A?
Pam:deprogrammer. His name was Dubrow Eichel. His mother and father had this programmer. They kidnapped him. He got away. But some years later these people hated MOVE, they hate my sister and they want the child, because the child is a MOVE child. But this man disappeared one day. There was absolutely nothing happening.
Beth:John's parents did hire a cult interventionist. They did not kidnap John. They had a conversation with John and John got up and ran into the woods literally and then figured out how to get back to Philadelphia. And then Alberta made sure that she locked him down. She married him legally Fact check John was being threatened and having move meetings on him for hours on end. We talked about that in the first season of the podcast. Mario admits to that. He talks about how they were relentless against John and John was actually suffering physical attacks by Alberta and death threats by other MOVE members, most notably MoAfrica.
Pam:And he disappeared for I forget how many months for six months, and when this man came back, he was the most hateful person that you had ever seen Classic case of smearing the victim.
Beth:So therefore, if you're listening to the story, you don't have any sympathy for him.
Pam:And I'm saying anybody who has been around MOVE people, they know how we treat people. This man had absolutely no regards for anyone that was in MOVE. And I'm saying people watch these movies how you know. I'm not saying that this happened, but I'm just giving you facts of what went on here and something for people to think about.
Beth:After being sure to land the point that John Gilbride is the bad guy and MOVE is the eternal victim, pam and Mike drift into a long stretch of whataboutism. They start comparing MOVE's persecution to real local tragedies involving police shootings, and then spiral into conspiracy theories. If I thought it added context for this episode, I would include it, but it doesn't. It's just noise. Here's five years after this WURD broadcast where Move is trashing John Gilbride and claiming he might not even be dead. They hold what they call a commemorative program to mark the 25th anniversary of the bombing on Osage. It was 2010. Move adults were there and the children, now teenagers and young adults, and they were given their parts to play.
Beth:What MOVE didn't expect was America's Most Wanted I'm African, I am Tom Morris, I am from America's Most Wanted Okay, and it's good to meet you All right.
Beth:The syndicated TV show known for helping solve cold cases, had just spent two days interviewing the Gilbride family for an episode about John's unsolved 2002 murder, when MOVE didn't return their calls to give their side. The show's crew shows up at MOVE's program.
Beth:I don't have had to say about him and you're completely ignoring me.
Ramona:I told you what the real issue is and you want to go back to John Hill. I don't have nothing to say about that. Obviously, we didn't kill him. The media was all around us that day. I mean that day and for weeks before that. You know we're under constant surveillance by cops.
Beth:Can you put me in touch with Alberta.
Ramona:No no.
Gary/Sean:No.
Ramona:I mean, I have your card and you know, if she chooses to contact you she will.
Beth:As usual, alberta's not available and MOVE will not let the press get to her. That's their job is to shield her from scrutiny. Pam taps into the ring and does what MOVE always does talk and talk, and talk, so that nobody can ask a question they don't want to answer. And the question is do you know what happened to John Gilbride? Instead of answering, they pivot back to May 13th 1985.
Pam:You know what I'm saying. You never came up and said anything about that. That's very insulting to my sister. I understand that. I understand that we don't give a damn about why you're here. You know I'm not the nice one. You're damn right, that's right. Pleasure to meet you anyway.
Beth:No, it's not.
Pam:It's not a pleasure.
Beth:I'm not the nice one. She warns Her way of signaling to the other MOVE members, the children and the acolytes in the crowd that it's go time. An acolyte that includes Dr Suzanne Ross, child psychologist from New York City, the one who testified for Alberta against John Gilbride during the custody hearings. John Gilbride was a disturbed man Did you know, yes, bride, during the custody hearings.
Beth:Everybody knows that they need to either spin America's Most Wanted to fit their narrative, you come out to investigate Moog. Let me explain one thing, that's my question to you. Let me explain one thing about how I do what I do. I go and interview everybody I can about a case I work on. Okay, this is part of it. He was part of Moog. He was part of Moog. We said we were not involved. He was part of Moog. He Part of.
Beth:The custody issue was with Alberta and move was on her side, and that's understandable.
Beth:I simply wanted to get the other side of the story from you guys who knew John. I didn't know him.
Pam:I will never know him, yeah, but you won't come here after getting something from his father and accuse my sister of being vicious. So that's what you said that's what you said.
Beth:I'm sorry if I used the word vicious in the parting of the letter and you said it with your face twisted.
Pam:The same kind of thing I'm saying. You know, you're the Negro that they sent to Fred Hampton's house. You put the drink in there. You're the Negro that they sent in May 1985, wilson Good. You're the Negro that they got from the Pentagon and brought up here, the military man who worked with the other folks and all to combat the bomb.
Beth:I'm a Black man who investigates crimes. That's all I do. I investigate crimes.
Beth:All of this is unfolding outside the Quaker Friends Center in Philadelphia, a venue founded on Quaker values of nonviolence, integrity and peace. And yet here's Pam Africa, surrounded by adult MOVE members and children, postured for confrontation, which is her title in MOVE. Minister of Confrontation. Confrontation, which is her title in Move. Minister of Confrontation. Tom Morris, the America's Most Wanted host, is standing alone with just a small production crew. He's holding his ground, asking direct and reasonable questions.
Beth:On that case. I'm working on one case, on one guy working on one case. Can you answer our chance? No, one journey. No, we want you Look how he no.
Gary/Sean:The one journey that.
Beth:I was working on was the one that he was working on. Look how he came.
Pam:Look how he came. He came on May 13th, the year that his motherfucking masters got the bomb on our kids. Yes, you know.
Pam:I'm saying this is the day yes you do motherfucker, and because I'm saying it's at that point right now, Because I'm sick and tired of playing some fucking kid game with you. Okay, your motherfucking master sent you down here on May 13th 1980. 25 years later, To do exactly what you're doing To provoke. And your ass is trained to stand up there and look as if you know oh, I'm not touched by you, know this one way or the other. I'm saying you're the motherfucker that laced Fred Hampton's drink. You're the motherfucker that pumped our brother Malcolm X. You're the motherfucker that plotted with them people to kill Martin Luther King. You're the motherfucker that shot Sean Bell.
Beth:What you're about to hear includes Jeanette Knighton, aka Pam Africa. Using the N-word, I've bleeped it not to protect her, but to spare you and to spare Tom Morris.
Pam:You the motherfucker, n-word, n-word, n-word. That's right, look, look, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, motherfucker.
Beth:Pam. Africa's use of the N-word here isn't emotional, it's tactical. This is MOVE's nuclear option, unleashed not in grief or anger but to shut down a line of questioning that got too close. The slur is calculated, it's meant to humiliate, to provoke and, most of all, calculated, it's meant to humiliate, to provoke and most of all, to silence, because asking about John Gilbride isn't just inconvenient for MOVE.
Pam:It's dangerous to their narrative and Pam knows it.
Beth:Pam and MOVE win Tom Morris and the America's Most Wanted crew leave. Tom Morris and America's Most Wanted got scared off in Philadelphia. They spent real time, money and resources producing an episode about John Gilbride's 2002 unsolved murder and then they pulled it. It never aired. Move bullied them flat out. Aired Move bullied them flat out. That's the part people forget or overlook. Move doesn't debate or use facts to disprove something. They intimidate and shut things down or they ignore you, but when brute force isn't needed, they're just as happy to accept the red carpet treatment like they got from WURD in 2005. Two full hours of live radio. They lied about John Gilbride, smeared a grieving family and rewrote reality in real time. And the way Cody Anderson wrapped it up. You'd think MOVE had just cured cancer.
Cody Anderson:All right, you gotta close out each one of you before, and we're going to have to come back.
Ramona:Yes, all right?
Cody Anderson:Okay, that's a commitment, because our phones would have continued to ring. I think that people want to either question you or challenge you or express their support for you, and the majority of the people seem to want to express their support, so it's important to keep the information out there. Thank you for coming.
Ramona:Oh, thank you, important to keep the information out there. Thank you for coming, ramona, you first. All right, I just want to say I want to move to people and understand that the MOVE organization is committed. We have a 35-year history for our credentials, you know, to substantiate what this organization represents and people need to look at that example. We are not going to sit back and allow the government, through the media, you know, to slander us, defame us. We will defend ourselves against such things and we're not going to let anybody, anybody, call us murderers when we know who the real murderers are. Move ain't never murdered nobody and never will. That is not our belief and we are true to our belief on the MOVE.
Pam:You know, Mona said it all. You know, we don't back down. We are committed to the teachings of John Africa and that's what people respect and love about the MOVE organization and that is John Africa, the coordinator of the MOVE organization.
Speaker 3:I want to say on the MOVE and long live John Africa.
Cody Anderson:That's Teresa, for those who haven't heard from her in a while. Mike.
Mike:You know, when you telling the truth, you ain't got no reason to lie. You ain't got no reason to lie and you ain't got no reason to hide, and MOVE ain't never been hiding. Move has always put the information out there. We've always exposed every situation and we ain't got no reason to do this. No different On the move. Long live John Africa.
Beth:When you're telling the truth, you've got no reason to lie or to hide. I agree with all of that, minus the long live John Africa, of course, because he was the worst. But yes, let's end with the truth, not myth, not spin the truth based on facts, the truth about a person, a human being, someone's son, someone's brother, a friend and a little boy's father. John Gilbride was a member of MOVE. John escaped. He wanted to get his son out too and John was murdered. He is dead. He was cremated. Someone out there killed him. The case is unsolved. The case is still open. Thanks for listening.
Beth:I know this two-parter was a deep dive, intensive, complex and emotionally difficult, so I truly appreciate that you stuck with it. There's a saying if no one is left to tell the truth, then the lie becomes history. That's why I humbly ask, if you feel so inclined, please give the podcast a five-star rating, leave a review and share it with someone you trust, because the more people who hear this, the more exposure John's case gets, and it makes sure the brave people who have spoken up, the ones who took real risks to tell the truth, didn't do it in vain. It matters because people are listening and truth wins. I believe that it's why I made this podcast.
Beth:I'll be back next Tuesday with a super deep dive episode examining how Vincent Leapheart and MOVE used language to manipulate and indoctrinate, even reaching through prison walls and locked doors, and, as always, I will answer your questions. If you reach out to me directly, you can send me an email murder at ryan's run at gmailcom or on socials, and if you have any information about John Gilbride's unsolved murder, the whereabouts of Shia Halloway or any information about what you've heard on this podcast, please reach out. This podcast is written, edited, hosted and reported by me, beth McNamara. Archival research by Robert Helms. Thanks for listening. Oh, and be sure to go to our website, murderatryandrun runcom and our social media for visuals that go along with this podcast, and be sure to check out the show notes.
