Ep. 172 - Why “Founder-Market Fit” Should Guide Your AI Go-to-Market Strategy

Guest: Sammy Greenwall, Founder of Henry.ai

What if your go-to-market motion could skip past theory and build from real-world pain?

That’s exactly how Sammy Greenwall, founder of Henry.ai, approaches commercial real estate—and why his vertical AI startup is scaling without traditional sales or marketing. 

Sammy’s background as a CRE professional-turned-founder gave him not only insight, but language, trust, and distribution advantages. In this episode, he shares how founder-market fit drives everything from product strategy to GTM efficiency—and how it’s paying off in a space historically allergic to software.

Sammy also pulls back the curtain on:

• How PLG became a byproduct of customer obsession—not the plan
• Building a waitlist-worthy brand (with no ad budget)
• Creating real enterprise value in a low-trust, high-volume industry

Three Key Takeaways for B2B GTM Leaders:

1. Founder-Market Fit > Generic Product-Market Fit
Sammy’s deep domain experience gave him a faster path to traction: he didn’t just “identify” pain—he lived it. That meant smarter onboarding flows, tighter feature prioritization, and messaging that clicked with buyers the first time. CEOs and founders with industry-specific experience should lean hard into that unfair advantage.

2. PLG Isn’t a Tactic—It’s the Outcome of Product Obsession
Henry.ai didn’t set out to be a PLG company. Instead, they tracked usage down to individual clicks, met with every early user, and iterated daily. That intensity created a product people wanted to talk about, which fueled organic adoption, referrals, and even early enterprise wins.

3. AI Doesn’t Just Accelerate Work—It Replaces It
In CRE, Sammy’s platform cut multi-week deal deck creation down to hours. That kind of workflow disruption isn’t about “boosting productivity”—it’s about letting revenue-generating staff focus on high-value activities like deals and relationships. This shift reframes AI adoption for skeptical buyers and opens the door to premium pricing.

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Transcript

Ken: Welcome to SaaS backwards, a podcast that helps SaaS CEOs and go-to market teams, accelerate growth and enhance profitability. Our guest today is second time entrepreneur, Sammy Greenwall, founder of henry.ai, an AI powered real estate analyst that helps commercial real estate professionals to quickly create research documents, financial models, proposals, and marketing materials.

Sammy, welcome to the podcast.    

Sammy: Thanks so much for having me, Ken, and really excited to be here today. 

Ken: Yeah, this is gonna be a good one. But before we get into the episode, could you please tell us more about yourself and your company, henry? 

Sammy: Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm Sammy. I'm the CEO and co-founder of henry.ai.

Grew up in the Bay Area. Really, really engaged in the tech community as a young person. I actually did a bunch of coffee runs, over at Postmates when I was in high school and got to work under our bossy on there. That's really what drew my love for the tech industry. At the same time, I grew up in a, a family small commercial real estate portfolio.

So I also had a love in that, in that space, and sort of merge those two things through the entirety of my career to get me to henry.ai. And henry, as you mentioned, is the first full stack commercial real estate analyst, specifically focused on helping commercial real estate professionals with laborists and repetitive workflows like building marketing materials research reports, formatting and all things related to underwriting a transaction.

So we kind of do it all and has been really, really fun building it for the last year.

Ken: It's interesting. That's a, I think a very fertile space. The RFP response proposal building. There are a number of companies not necessarily in real estate, that are, you know, addressing those kinds of things.

And it's a lot of work to get those documents formatted, created. And in your case, I guess you do some financial modeling as well within the system. So, a lot of opportunity to improve people's productivity. let's talk about that move from commercial real estate to startup founder. And this is the second, the second of your startups in the real estate space, right?

Sammy: Yeah, that's right. So, I, I had a run at my previous company for over five years. I started that one when I was just 23. I graduated from college, didn't really know what I wanted to do. Ended up with this incredible opportunity at a large commercial real estate developer called Toll Brothers. And there I got to learn the industry.

I really got to understand how commercial real estate and commercial real estate finance works. I also got to understand tech better because I was part of our sort of VC arm where we invested in a bunch of prop tech companies. So that really got me the bug. One thing led to another, and, you know, at 23 years old went to New York City and, and started my first prop tech company called lev.com.

Ken: And what, what became of Lev Is that, is that still running? 

Sammy: Yeah, so we we had a, a lot of ups and downs with that company. Started with just two of us, just an idea. Had no idea what we were doing, sort of chasing our tails for a very, very long time. Just kept getting at it, kept going at it, kept going at it.

Finally started to get a couple of things to click. Product revenue, raised a little bit of money, then all of a sudden things just spiked upward trajectory. Ended up raising over $115 million of venture capital, another a hundred million dollars of debt, and threw it to 200 people. Had to then go through the opposite track downsize the business a bit as interest rates went up and we maybe overhired at that point.

And yeah, left about a year ago. It's about 50 to 60 people now and yeah, doing well for everything I understand. 

Ken: That's really cool. So let's, let's ask the question. What did you learn there that's helping you as you consider the future of henry? 

Sammy: A bunch of things, but like the most important ones were first principles.

So just actually focus and ask yourself the real questions that push the business forward. Like, is this product working? Are people paying you money? Can you continue to scale this at large? Is hiring that additional person actually going to add value? Why? Are you able to automate this process yourself instead of hiring that person?

Is there a smarter, higher impact product that you can build today? Those are the sorts of first, first principles thinking that I really, really got on my first company. And then the second thing I think is just management. How do you make your employees the best possible that they can be? And how do you build an organization that is able to scale when it's ready?

How do you set that those ground roots up from a culture perspective? 

Ken: Boy, that's, that's a lot. That's almost, almost an MBA in startups right there. Of those things. What are the two or three that you've taken into henry? And having the most impact on your initial success. 

Sammy: We have a poster in our office that is from YC, Y Combinator, and it says, looking at it right now, make something people want.

And that's sort of the, the entire slogan for YC. And I just think that that's simplistic language is just so, so powerful and really, really forces you every single day to think about if the product that you're working on is actually bringing value to other people. And the the second point on there is, are they paying for it?

I think that if you, if you really wanted to boil down to like what our business is doing well, what fundamentally I think about every single day is, am I building something that people want. Truly, and can I prove that every single day that it's working? 

Ken: Did you feel like you had an advantage 'cause of your prior work in building henry in terms of what users would want and pay for?

Sammy: Absolutely. I think that. I'm, I'm in no way a genius, probably just as smart as a lot of people who are listening to this podcast, if not less smart. I think I'm a clear thinker, but I think that the biggest advantage is really founder market fit. I've been in this space as a founder for five years before this. I had been in this space as a non founder for two years before that and I really, really, really over that course was able to understand my customers so well. And not just like what they want, but like how to communicate to them when they say something what do they actually mean? When they're talking to me about one pain point, what does that really, really look like from a product build out perspective?

How do I speak their language? So yeah, I think it was probably the largest, most tremendous advantage that I've had building a second company. 

Ken: You're the first person in 171 episodes to say founder market fit. Can you just extrapolate on that a little bit, what that means to you? 

Sammy: First of all, I think that if you don't have the experience in the industry before, it doesn't mean that you can't be an incredible founder. And there's plenty of cases of that. I just think that if you look at the numbers and the hard data, if you do have experience in that previous industry and in my, specific case, commercial real estate, you will have a higher likelihood of succeeding because you will have a distribution advantage, right?

You already have a network of people that you know, that you can sell to, or that will help you sell to other peolple. You've already,

been through the laborous and repetitive workflows of these people so you understand their pain, not just theoretically, but practically. And then third, you understand how they think about product and how that product should be built. In our case, our users are a bit tech ancient, meaning that our product needs to be incredibly simple, oversimplified, not beautiful, not magnificent, not flashy, but so, so simple for our users to get value outta it.

Those are just insights that you get from being in this space for a long time. 

Ken: Well, that was awesome. Thanks for sharing that. I wanna move on to sort of go to market stuff. You've grown so far without traditional sales and marketing using a PLG motion. Can you talk a little bit about what you've learned so far doing PLG here and you know, how far does PLG take you?

You know, you've done, you talked about founder led sales just briefly, in the last moments, but you know, when you go past your network and you have PLG in place, like kind of what's next? 

Sammy: Yeah, so just starting with PLG, we didn't know this was gonna be a PLG motion. I think what we wanted was obsession over our product and obsession over our customers, and that was the, that was really, really, really what we focused on and that led to the PLG.

We didn't come in here and say we're gonna build a PLG company. What happens when you obsess over your product so much on a constant basis where every single time a customer logs in, you're literally watching the logs to see how they navigate from step one to step two every single day for hours and hours, to getting on a call with them every single day to understand what was difficult or frustrating with the product, how can we improve and doing that with every single customer.

Eventually you start building a pretty powerful product and you get these really amazing feedback loops. And eventually those customers, you know, they talk to their friends about it, they talk to their coworkers about it because they're appreciative of how good the product is and how much support you give for them. And that naturally starts to snowball and you start getting more and more of this feedback loop coming in and more and more people talking about your product and being excited about it.

And that starts to generate demand. So that's really what we've been focused on. The second part of that strategy has really just been self-promotion and marketing. I think if you're a founder and you're not on LinkedIn with a clear objective of you know, speaking to your specific audience in a very specific and practical way, you're losing out on huge, huge, huge amounts of revenue.

And I think we've done a really, really good job of targeting our audience and connecting with them through these different channels of marketing. 

Ken: Is all of your LinkedIn work organic or are you an advertiser as well? 

Sammy: All of it is completely organic. 

Ken: And we've had Kathleen Booth of Pavilion, I don't know if you know the name.

She actually also does a lot on LinkedIn and there's primarily organic with her and, the leader of the organization. So I'm wondering, you know, how are you orchestrating that and you know, what are the most powerful things you've done on LinkedIn in terms of getting in front of the right opportunities?

Sammy: Yeah, so I think two things. One has been that people are really interested in my experience as a founder and also going through as a second time founder and going through Y Combinator. And that's both you know, tech forward, real estate people, and then just people in general. So I think I've really leaned into that and built an audience around that.

And the second thing is just like speaking practically to my customers and telling them,

Hey, this is what's new with our product. This is why it's invaluable to you. This is why you should be using my product, not because I wanna get paid, but because it's gonna lead to more dollars generated or revenue for you.

It's gonna make you more tech forward. It's gonna give you an competitive place in the industry long term. And I think appealing to them, you know, in a way that is not so clickbait and does feel genuine. And listen, it's not for everyone. I think it really works over the long term.

Ken: Well, that last bit of the, the response there, not for everyone, I guess you're looking at folks that are at least curious, if not truly early adopters, right? They, they have to have some curiosity about how they can do things better. 

Sammy: Yeah, that's right. And one of the things that we work on every day is how do we filter for all of our inbound to ensure that we're speaking to high quality people?

Because to your point, most of the people who come to your website and click to book a demo, they're not actually early adopters. And they're not actually high intent buyers. They're just people who heard about you from a friend or who saw a podcast or who looked at something on LinkedIn and they're not necessarily even considering buying what you're, what you're selling.

And as a founder in the seed stage, in the first year of your business, every single call, every single minute is so valuable. So you really, really need to be thoughtful with who you're talking to and disqualify them if they're not real as soon as possible. And that's really hard. 

Ken: It's interesting I made an inquiry on behalf of one of my clients in the CMMS space, you know, commercial maintenance systems, and factory maintenance management.

And I inquired of a lead gen organization that I won't name 'cause it's not relevant. But they're one of the publishers like a review site and they're calling me and calling me and calling me. And if all they did is look on my LinkedIn, they know there's no way I'm gonna be buying their software, their client software, you know?

So gotta gotta do a little bit of research before you invest the energy. 

Sammy: Yeah, a 100%. And especially when you don't have the resources, when you're the only person who's fielding those calls. Right. And doing everything else. 

Ken: Yeah. How many people are, are in Henry now? 

Sammy: Yeah, so we're 10 people.

Everyone is an engineer on the technical side, except for me and my chief of staff. So we are a pure tech, tech first product led growth organization that is, again, obsessive over the product that we're delivering, the tech that we're building and the customer experience that we're providing. 

Ken: That's, that's really interesting.

So it's either selling or or building, right? Those are the kind of the two roles right now. Is there plans to move past or to incorporate other motions besides PLG here? I mean, is there an enterprise future for henry? 

Sammy: Yeah, so it's actually been interesting. We do have enterprise customers both that are signed and in contract and that has also been predominant through PLG.

But to answer your question for real, of course, you cannot just run a PLG motion. And we know very well right now that we're losing out on this revenue and that we're not hitting our potential because that's all we're focused on. So it is so, so imperative. And maybe, maybe not right now, but very, very soon to get into a really, really high quality outbound motion.

With, you know, really, really strong go-to-market fundamentals on the marketing side, what works on paid, what doesn't work? We know, like, for example, our customers you know, they're on LinkedIn a lot, so we need to be thinking about that. And also they like to shake hands, so we need to be at meetings.

And also, you know, they like to get things in the mail. They still open up their mail, so can we send ' em stuff in the mail that's interesting. Like, these are all things we need to think about and we need to start quantifying. And then of course you need to hit the phones. Calling still works, texting still works.

The outbound motion is there, and that's how you scale long term. We're not gonna hit a hundred million dollars of revenue through PLG. We're just not that kind of company, and we're not in that space. 

Ken: That's awesome. That was the insight I was looking for. Thank you. Let, let's move on to talk about what's happening in commercial real estate with respect to AI.

Like what is the early impact of AI on the space and at at a point in that answer, if you could talk about how your product through its AI is creating real step change for people. 

. 

Sammy: Our industry is very, very, very slow to adopt software.

And historically VCs have really shied away from the space because of how stubborn commercial real estate professionals have been with taking in software. It's a handshake business, it's big transaction volume. There is low trust here. Information is everything. What's happened with AI, which is super interesting, is you can now build software that doesn't give you a 20 or 30% productivity boost necessarily, and, but it will actually fully replace work, and that's the big paradigm shift that's happened in our industry.

And I can tie that back into my product and other people who are building amazing products in our space. We have built something and it's simple, but just these deal decks you know, you need to build a presentation. If you're selling a $50 million office building in Midtown New York, it's 150 page presentation.

It's a bunch of laborist work research. Who's in the market? Who are the employers? Who are the tenants in that building? How much rent do they pay? You it, it goes on and on and on. That could typically take someone three weeks to build, four weeks to build this presentation. And with henry you can do it in a couple of hours.

So now as a commercial real estate analyst or a professional, I can not just put together one of these reports with one analyst, but one analyst could put together dozens and dozens of these reports in one day, right? Which means they can focus on one, winning more business, doing more deals, putting more reports together, and two.

Higher value tasks like relationship building, closing deals, things that will never be taken away from AI. So what we're seeing actually is analysts going from, you know, a one X output producer to 10 or 15 x, and that's the power of AI and the inflection point we're seeing in our industry. 

Ken: And are people responsive and receptive to the message that they can get?

It's an interesting thing. Embed AI, you can do more of how you like to do business. I mean, is that. Do they get that and, and who gets that? 

Sammy: That's a great question. Yeah. I think that the senior teams totally get that, and you know, Analyst sometimes at first are a little bit scared. They're like, hey, this is a large percentage of my workflow.

Maybe it's 50 or 60%. So there is hesitation, but when you go deep and you're like, Hey, what do you want to be doing more? What does the future look like for you? It's not in the spreadsheets. It's not in PowerPoint. Building relationships, it's closing transactions, it's negotiations, it's these interpersonal relationships.

And when they can see that and quantify it and then see how valuable henry is, or any of these AR platforms are on the side, they, they really lean in and they lean in hard, and that's what gets really exciting. But there's totally a curve here and there is doubt and hesitation like there should be when any new software is getting delivered to an industry I wanna talk about 

Ken: funding and scaling next. I think that, you know, you, you touched on it very briefly before. So can you talk about, you know, how you affected the seed round? Like, you know, you said that VCs are reticent to invest in the commercial real estate space, so obviously you had to have a good story and then how did you get to the next stage, you know, this larger investment?

Pretty good investment. 

Sammy: Yeah, so I will say that at the seed stage and the pre-seed stage, VCs are really betting on the founding team more than anything else. The idea is important and your track record's important, but what they really care about is the team that's that's building there. So I was fortunate enough to have had experience in this space with a relatively successful company and a co-founder who is at least my equal, if not more.

That team dynamic, I think PC saw immediately and were excited to back. To your point, getting around commercial real estate and, and investing in that, in that space. It is, it is a tough space to invest in. And I think, you know, they said if someone was gonna do it, it was gonna be you guys.

And that's why they were excited about it. But there were plenty of people who said no. And then just lastly on momentum, you were asking how do you get the round done? If you can prove the traction early on, and we had some early adopters in our platform who were really genuinely excited about this.

I think that was the biggest proof point for them to be like, okay, this makes sense for us to take a bet on henry.ai. 

Ken: Well, yeah, I mean, the, the team is definitely, and, and has always been the first thing, right? Because you're, you're laying a bet on the founder or founders being able to see their vision through, even if the path isn't what they originally

imagine or intended. Have there been changes in your path that you've had to navigate and does that help you as you talk to your now, I guess, board and potential future investors? 

Sammy: Yeah, I mean, every single week we're changing our product roadmap and even our vision for the business. And it's such an iterative process, and I think our investors understand that from day one.

What's really important at when you're at this stage, again, is to just be honest with yourself. Have intellectual honesty. Is what you're doing working? Is what you're building something that people want? And are the changes that you're making, is there reason for it? Is the reason grounded? Is it smart and rational?

And then everyone understands, and then can you be transparent with that information and deliver it to all stakeholders, whether that's your employees, your investors, your, Um executive team as quickly as possible. And I think we do a really good job of that and I think if you look at the best early stage teams

they're always changing direction. They're always changing ideas. But they're doing it with the right intentions and with the right sight, long-term sight in mind, and they're communicating that quickly to everyone involved. 

Ken: Being incubated, was YC an important part of being investible, do you think?

Sammy: Hugely important. I, I do not believe our company would be here. I don't even know if our company would honestly be alive if it wasn't for YC. So I have so tremendous, tremendous respect, love, admiration for that organization. Specifically David Lee, our, our group partner there who bet on us with literally a, a scratch pad and a 10 minute phone call to bring us into that organization and helped us shape where we are today.

And my message to anyone listening to this podcast who is an aspiring founder, a current founder who has not gone through YC and is still early stage, strongly, strongly consider it no matter who you are. 

Ken: Awesome. Let's, let's circle back a little bit. Now I want to go back to go to market 'cause that's what a lot of our listeners care about.

Can you talk about what it meant to be founder led initially, and what are you doing now? 'cause I imagine your Rolodex, you've, you've used a lot of your network already. So can you talk about the early days and kind of what you're gonna do as, you know, the Rolodex or the, the LinkedIn network that you had of people who knew you is kind of getting exhausted, right?

You've been at it a while. 

Sammy: Totally. Yeah. So it got our foot in the door. To your point, initially with some people, what's interesting is that all of our initial buyers and our always customers, I didn't actually know, but maybe I knew them through someone else. So what's just been effective is continuing to work with those existing customers, understand their pain points, and over time expand ACV with them.

You're not, from my perspective, you're not gonna grow the business by adding more and more customers churning your old ones at 10 percentage clip and not increasing ACV. What we're really focused on is taking on the right customers right now and expanding ACV land and expand as quickly as possible, really understanding their pain points and driving solutions that work for them.

And as far as go to market works, that is massive amounts of customer support, tons of customer calls, reviews of how they're using your product, understanding of their pain point. That's really how you're able to drive ACV long term. As far as finding net new customers, we really have been fortunate to focus on word of mouth.

And that does happen naturally a lot of the time, but it also happens through referral programs, you know, where we're able to give customers discounts that they introduce us to other folks or channel partnerships where there's other commercial real estate tech forward people who sell into similar customers and partnering with them organically, giving them some sort of kickback.

If they bring us business as well. And then last thing, which I think is really important and underrated is your brand, right? Can you set your brand apart as being exclusive, as being the Ferrari of your industry, as being something that everyone needs? Generating a wait list, making it feel like if you're not using the platform, your FOMO.

Honestly, and I think that's been really effective as well, where we're not just trying to get anyone on our platform as quickly as possible. We have a very qualified process and when we get on our calls every time I'd say, Hey. This might not work out for you and it, might not be the best fit for us, but that's completely okay.

We wanna make sure that our customers have a high willingness to pay, can take the most advantage of our software, and that they understand they're buying the most premium product in the industry. 

Ken: As I was listening to you describe this motion, it's almost like you have this under the radar enterprise motion that you are.

You're working here, right? So you, it's almost like early days of Slack before Salesforce where they were first starting to scale the enterprise idea and they would notice, Hey, I've got two or three users here at moderately Big Corp. And let's, let's call on these guys and, and try and grow that business.

And that was their first kind of foray into enterprise. And that's probably a really smart way to build the muscles. 

Sammy: I like that. Yeah, I think, I think we're thinking about it the same way and listen, we're a 10 person company, so at the end of the day, we just don't have that many resources, right? So we need to apply the resources that we have as at the highest values possible.

And just how you describe that sort of ocean for Slack, that's how we're thinking about it as well. We think that's really the highest ROI for expanding the business long term. 

Ken: Makes a huge amount of sense. Last thing I wanna talk about with you is the build, what are the technical hurdles, if any, in developing, you know, an AI native solution for commercial real estate?

You know, probably hadn't been done the way you're thinking about it before, so it's not like you have inspiration of, of other companies. So tell us about the build and also overcoming some concerns that people might have about AI systems when it comes to generating insight and, you know, solid information.

Sammy: Yeah, so great question. I won't get too technical or nuanced with the details, but I will say two things. One is that one thing that we underestimated is that each model is much better at completing certain tasks than others. So we have to use those models very, very precisely depending on the task at hand.

For example, for extracting raw data from PDFs or Excel documents, there's a certain models that are much better than others. For example, o3-mini and Reducto These other models that we're using on the backend. In contrast when you're talking about generating research or content which is another big part of our workflow, we've had to look at other models 'cause those aren't as good.

And depending on the type of content that's being generated, even, you know, whether it's market specific content or property specific content, you have to plug into different models. So we're using deep research on that, or we're also using anthropic in certain cases. So the, the high level point I'm making is that finding the right models that are best at these smaller tasks is truthfully important for building our entire workflow.

So last thing I will say on this is we've basically broken down this massive problem of like, what is a real estate analyst into a bunch of tiny, tiny little parts. And each one of those parts or tasks that we call, has an agent, it's own specific agent that's completing that task. So we, you think of our software as this series of many agents doing very, very small tasks, communicating with each other, and ultimately building something much larger at scale.

So this multi-agent approach has worked super, super well for us and it's been super exciting, but it's also been complex to figure out. It's taken a long time for us to get there. 

Ken: are there other companies doing this multi-agent approach? 

Sammy: I think most vertical AI companies right now are and if they're not and they can do it with in a different way.

Please, lemme know. I would be very, very curious how else you can accomplish this stuff. 

Ken: Is, is any of this proprietary modeling? Are you building your own ML here or is it really finding the best suited thing that's commercially available? 

Sammy: Ken, we're just a wrapper. And I mean that a little bit facetiously.

Like we're, we're built on top of the models. We're doing smart engineering prompts. The way that we see ourselves being differentiated and have an AI mode is through workflow and why we think the models will never get here. Our customers are so specific or so nuanced. There's so many technicalities that go into... how do you think about providing this product for this specific person?

How do you prompt the models? When do you prompt the models? What does each model do? How do you push this person through the workflow so that the inputs that they provide are the right inputs? That entire workflow, that's the secret sauce. That's how we create value long term. But to answer your question, simply, no,

we are not building our own ML models. 

Ken: I think it's really interesting, you know, I've talked about the, you know, software, not necessarily the moat anymore, so it sounds like here a really deep understanding of your customer is part of your moat, which enabled you to build henry and have it be so suitable for purpose, you know, so built for purpose, and then also, and you you went by it really quickly.

The notion of having a brand that stands for something so that your company has an intrinsic value beyond the product itself, right? You're investing in what the company should mean to customers and potential customers. And I think that's, that's a really cool kind of two trench moat there. 

Sammy: That's, that's awesome.

And just to double down on that, the future vertical AI companies that are gonna be differentiated are going to have incredible understandings of workflow, competitive advantages there. The best brand in the market, ubiquitous with the market. It's a winner take all. Distribution, which is a, a, I guess, derivative of the brand.

So you have to win on all three of those things, and that's something that's unique and new to today's age. That was not as important even two or three years ago. 

Ken: Well, hey, that's a great place to land the episode. You more than made good on the challenge of giving fellow founders and GTM leaders something worth staying for the full half hour.

If people wanna learn more about henry or get in touch with you, how can they do that? 

Sammy: So I am an open book and I love to connect with anyone whether I can, I can help you out or you have questions or you can help me. Email me, sammy@henry.ai or shoot me a message on LinkedIn, please. 

Ken: That's great.

If people wanna reach me, I'm on Linkedin/in/kenlempit my advertising and demand generation agency for software as a service is Austin Lawrence. We're at austinlawrence.com and if you haven't yet subscribed to the podcast, maybe this is the tilting point. You can get SaaS backwards anywhere

podcasts are distributed as well as on YouTube. Sammy Greenwell, thank you so much for being on SaaS backwards. 

Sammy: Thanks so much, Ken.