When the sharp edges of loss cut through the fabric of everyday life, how does one tread the delicate path of returning to work? Claire Schwartz, a grief and trauma healing strategist with Miriamswell Healing, joins us to share her profound insights on this very challenge. In our heartfelt conversation, we unravel the intricacies of grief in the workplace, scrutinizing the current bereavement policies that often fail to provide the necessary support for those in mourning. Claire's expertise, paired with her personal narrative of loss, casts a light on the silent struggles that many face while attempting to balance their professional responsibilities amidst profound personal sorrow.
Grief doesn't clock out when we swipe our badges at the office door; it lingers, often impacting our performance in ways we and our employers might not anticipate. This episode peels back the layers of emotional and physical toll that grief exacts on individuals, questioning the rationality of standard bereavement practices. We probe the deeper implications of workplace culture, the emotional intelligence of leadership, and how businesses might risk their greatest assets—their people—by not affording them the time and space to heal. Claire and I tackle the often-neglected topics, such as the stigmatized loss of a miscarriage and the convoluted intricacies of the Family Medical Leave Act, prompting a much-needed dialogue on how companies can better value their employees during life’s most trying times.
Wrapping up with a beacon of hope, we explore the transformative power of healing from grief and trauma. As I share my own experiences in guiding clients through their darkest hours, we discuss the pivotal role of grief coaching in fostering trust and productivity within the workplace. The "Fearless Grieving to Fearless Living" program emerges as a testament to the resilience of the human spirit, underscoring the potential for growth even in the depths of despair. We invite you to join this community of support, as we collectively navigate the complex journey of grief, bearing witness to its transformative potential in both our personal and professional lives.
When the sharp edges of loss cut through the fabric of everyday life, how does one tread the delicate path of returning to work? Claire Schwartz, a grief and trauma healing strategist with Miriamswell Healing, joins us to share her profound insights on this very challenge. In our heartfelt conversation, we unravel the intricacies of grief in the workplace, scrutinizing the current bereavement policies that often fail to provide the necessary support for those in mourning. Claire's expertise, paired with her personal narrative of loss, casts a light on the silent struggles that many face while attempting to balance their professional responsibilities amidst profound personal sorrow.
Grief doesn't clock out when we swipe our badges at the office door; it lingers, often impacting our performance in ways we and our employers might not anticipate. This episode peels back the layers of emotional and physical toll that grief exacts on individuals, questioning the rationality of standard bereavement practices. We probe the deeper implications of workplace culture, the emotional intelligence of leadership, and how businesses might risk their greatest assets—their people—by not affording them the time and space to heal. Claire and I tackle the often-neglected topics, such as the stigmatized loss of a miscarriage and the convoluted intricacies of the Family Medical Leave Act, prompting a much-needed dialogue on how companies can better value their employees during life’s most trying times.
Wrapping up with a beacon of hope, we explore the transformative power of healing from grief and trauma. As I share my own experiences in guiding clients through their darkest hours, we discuss the pivotal role of grief coaching in fostering trust and productivity within the workplace. The "Fearless Grieving to Fearless Living" program emerges as a testament to the resilience of the human spirit, underscoring the potential for growth even in the depths of despair. We invite you to join this community of support, as we collectively navigate the complex journey of grief, bearing witness to its transformative potential in both our personal and professional lives.
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to, as I Live in Grief, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.
Speaker 2:
Hi everyone, welcome back again to as I Live in Grief.
Speaker 2:
Again, thank you, thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for continuing to listen to my episodes. You just make me feel so special and you've helped me heal in ways I can't even begin to tell. With me today is a friend that I have encountered along the way. I love how we pick people up and add them to our network and tuck them in our pocket, if you will. Hi everyone, welcome back again to as I Live in Grief. Again, thank you, thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for continuing to listen to my episodes. You just make me feel so special and you've helped me heal in ways I can't even begin to tell. With me today is a friend that I have encountered along the way. I love how we pick people up and add them to our network and tuck them in our pocket, if you will. Claire Schwartz is with me today and I am going to start out by saying hi, claire, welcome. Thanks for joining me, and would you start out by telling our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3:
Hi everyone. I am Claire Schwartz. I am the owner and founder of Miriamswell Healing and you can heal your grief and my technical qualifications are BA and spiritual counselor, grief and trauma expert and I like to add grief and trauma healing strategist. That's one of my favorites at the moment. I'm also a member of the American Academy of Experts in Traumatic Stress and I'm also a trauma survivor and I stopped counting my losses at 40, and I don't mean 40 years old, I mean 40 losses, and I include all sorts of things in that, not just deaths, Because grief is complicated and my major life change can bring about a grief process.
Speaker 3:
So they say do what you know.
Speaker 3:
And that is what I come from and it's also shaped my life and my path and it's been, and continues to be a long journey and it sounds odd to say it never ends, but that's not to say that it doesn't get better. It absolutely gets better, and what has served me through all of that is leaning into the healing and into the process. It's not supposed to be easy, that's not what it's about, but it is transformational and it is my true and deep belief that it is the most important work of our lives. The work we have in front of us is not our job. Job, it's how to heal from the things that happen along the way, because stuff is going to happen. And how do we get from that moment of shock to feeling OK, now I can breathe, now I know I'm going to be all right. Let me put one foot in front of the other and see where the road takes me. It takes a while and that's OK. So that's a little bit about myself, to just get us started.
Speaker 2:
I couldn't agree with you more. Your words resonate with me on so many levels and again, thank you for finding the time in your busy, busy schedule to join me on the podcast today. Our focus today is going to be talking about grief in the workplace. It's a topic we've maybe touched on here there in different episodes, but we've never really fully talked about it. So, again, this is a special topic. It's quite near and dear to me.
Speaker 2:
I've had four major losses in my life, and when I say major I mean father, infant, son, mother and spouse, with spouse being the most recent. So after each of those I went back to work, with varying degrees of difficulty and not knowing what, I didn't know, just kind of getting through the days. But there are some things to consider, whether it's you doing the grieving and returning to work, or whether you happen to work somewhere or even be a manager, supervisor, officer, the company or something. So I know there's going to be content in this episode that's going to help you along the way. So my very first question, claire, is how did you get interested in the topic with grief and the workplace?
Speaker 3:
Well, certainly, from personal experience, my major turning point, loss in my story was the death of my mother in 1995. And it was one of those phone call at midnight your life will never be the same type of things within a matter of moments. And so for I mean, most of us work so sure, and you can't just switch your brain into dealing with work when you have so much on your plate I had a nervous breakdown for those first three months. I was very actually lucky at the time. It was right after the family medical leave act began, so I was able to take some time off because I literally could not function.
Speaker 3:
But for me personally, whether it was the death of my stepmother, death of my father, if we're talking specifically about losses, each of those occurrences had an aspect of, well, what's my workplace going to do? And so, just for me, the main story I talk about when my stepmother passed away, I had to take a few weeks off because I had to peel my father off the floor. I had to manage all of the financial stuff, all of the legal stuff and arrangements, because he couldn't function. He just sat there and he just didn't know what to do. So I had to step in and do all the things. Of course, in the process I had no idea how many days I had taken off, and you go through the standard days off if you're lucky enough to have those, and we'll talk about that in a little bit.
Speaker 3:
Most of us need more time off than that, and so I came back to work Probably my recollection is about three weeks later and I went immediately down to HR and I said help me out here. I have no idea. How much do I have any vacation time left. Did I eat into everything? I've kind of lost track of where I was because my brain has been so first-nogled and instead of sitting down with me and going, oh gosh, I'm so sorry, that must have been really hard, let's figure this out and look at the days and count them down.
Speaker 3:
No, she bawled me out for bothering her with having to figure this out. I should have kept better track of it, apparently. Oh, for goodness sakes, oh, okay, and we figured it out, but she was grumbling through the whole thing Like it was a terrible inconvenience to her. I said oh well, now I know who you are, All right. Well then, I don't. We're definitely not going to be friends. And I don't think I said another civil word to her the entire time. I was still at that company, which wasn't that long after that Understandable, but it was really shocking to me to be met with so little compassion. It was I just wow, just wow, and there it is no compassion.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and I when you need it most when I put out a call a few several weeks ago on my social media and I said so what's your experience been in the workplace as far as how your job has responded when you're going through a loss or something traumatic. And the stories, kathy, I got back they would make your hair curl. They were so awful, some of them were so awful, and you know somebody who. They said oh yeah, you can have time off. But as soon as they came back, they found they didn't have a job or they suddenly got moved around to something new and all sorts of things would happen behind their backs. It's just so shocking, so terrible, not to mention. And if you expand that out into something traumatic has happened and people don't talk about it, they pretended didn't happen. Oh, are you? Are you still talking about that or what? You're not better yet and just gosh that was over a month ago, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:
Oh, I know, are you?
Speaker 3:
really, oh my, okay. So it's shocking on a human level, because there's this misunderstanding that business world and human world are supposed to be two different things. Right? And guess what? The business world is full of humans, exactly. So if you don't take care of said humans, you're going to have a problem, Right, and if you don't know how to manage the emotions that are pouring out of those people who are walking around like an open wound, it's an accident waiting to happen.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So it was pretty much your personal experience. And then hearing about it from others what they were going through, yeah, that really kind of made you feel like so many of us champions feel, yeah, got to do something about that, and the very first thing we want to do is tell others and get others on the bandwagon, so to speak. Exactly, so I'm right there with you. Yeah, I have to say I was not just fortunate, I was blessed with my last two losses my mother and my spouse in that I was working in the field of health care. I was blessed. My mother was actually a resident in a nursing home and was declining. I had more difficulty with that phase of her being placed on hospice. From that moment on. I had more trouble dealing with that because I worked at the same place she was living.
Speaker 3:
Oh.
Speaker 2:
And she was prone to some delusions and hallucinations. Some early dementia was creeping in. Yeah, and I would well, at least on a weekly basis, but then, as she declined further, it got almost daily. I would get a call in my office. Kathy, could you come up to the floor?
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Because my presence always seemed to kind of bring my mom back down to a calmer state, sure, and so I would leave my office and go up and visit with her a little bit, get her calmed down, and then go right back down to the first floor into a meeting that I had to chair. Change hats, yes, and I had a breakdown one morning.
Speaker 2:
I went in, went into my office. Normally my door was open so everybody could come by and say hi and we chat and support each other. That morning I closed my office door Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
Because I just I couldn't, I had had enough, I had reached my limit. Of course, I didn't even want to think about the day that was coming ahead. And it was a wonderful nurse friend who came by my door, realized it was closed, but had seen that I had come in and she started tapping on the door. Okay, I know you're in there, kathy, I know you're in there. Good friend, if you don't open the door, I'm going to go get security and have them open it for me. So you might as well open it. And I did.
Speaker 2:
And she came in and helped me and I left work that day, went straight to the doctor and got some professional help, good, but that was a harder part. Afterward, goodness, they paid for her service, was in their chapel, they paid for a celebration afterward in the dining room, paid for all the food, all the staff to serve it and everything, oh lovely. And said to me as I walked out the day of her funeral don't come back until you are ready to come back. And I said but I doesn't matter. Yeah, so I was blessed, very, very.
Speaker 3:
With my husband.
Speaker 2:
I was working at a comfort care home, a local hospice home, and it was a very similar situation. I was only working part time, I had retired twice by that time, but I was working part time. And they were the same way. Yeah, they were the same way. And there were some days when, when my husband was ill, I would go into work to get a couple things done and I would take him with me because he couldn't be left alone. And goodness, they would take care of him while I was working. Oh my, they would bring him coffee and give him fresh baked cookies and just spoil him such that every morning my husband would say do you have to go to work today? Because he wanted to go to, I want a cookie. Yeah, I want a cookie, you know. And they spoiled him. So I was blessed. But it's not the way it is.
Speaker 2:
No, not at all and most companies give you three days, yeah, and they expect from death until three days.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
For everything to be done, wrapped up and you're ready to come work.
Speaker 3:
Well, there's at least 17 things I want to say about that. First of, all, number one number one, that is, the three to four days that's for a spouse or a parent or a child, yes, so sometimes the loss can be just as devastating if it's someone who's not one of those first. Sure. So that's the first thing. The second thing is you can't even sometimes have arranged the funeral by that. No.
Speaker 3:
And people have to travel across the country. I know for my mother I had to bring her from Delaware to Michigan. Good luck figuring that out. Don't ask for that. Costs either. No, and you know so. Not to mention, in some traditions want, you need to do things quickly, but then there's a morning period afterwards, so there's there's no accommodation for that.
Speaker 3:
And so my, my question for employers and managers is look, when you are, even if the loss is foreseen, even if it's a long illness, the reality of it can still knock the stuffing out of someone. Of course it can. So someone is numb and also deeply emotional at the same time, and your health, your personal health, can go out the window. You're not eating right, you're not sleeping, your focus is off, your memory is off. I tell the story and talk about this in the book after my mom died, I literally forgot how to drive. I didn't. My hands and my feet did not know what to do. And so do you want someone in that state of mind, trying to plop back into work and doing things the way they could before? It is not only not reasonable, it is not kind and it is hurting your company because it is going to people. Do you want those folks doing computations and working with clients and signing contracts and being working with operating machinery and everything.
Speaker 2:
Companies are so focused on liability and risk management they're not considering.
Speaker 3:
Yes absolutely Absolutely. So how to how to build something that's just more reasonable for everybody? And here's the other piece Pretty much all the time when I've spoken to a colleague or a client about a loss and I asked them how their business responded.
Speaker 3:
You know, there's a story and people talk. Well, there goes your reputation, sure, as not only as a place to work but as a place of business, in terms of you know, are you going to want to shop with that corporation or are you going to want to give them your time, energy and money, right so? And it also hurts the productivity, it hurts your, but therefore your bottom line and it hurts your partnerships with other companies, the layers of damage that you're doing to your business While you're only thinking about. You know, get people right back in the office, get them right back on the, on the floor, and get back to what they were doing before. You know, I'm sorry, that's not what's going to happen here. And so can we get a little smarter about this, can we get a little kinder about this? Because I have seen people leave their jobs because of how they've been treated for this issue as well as others. But your employees are your most important and your most valuable asset.
Speaker 3:
Right, and more and more, especially in the last couple of years, people are speaking, speaking up and going. Hold on a minute, hold on a minute. I'm a person, I have a family, I have health. I need some downtime, I need some care, and companies that don't provide that are going to get left behind. You can treat your folks like they are the machinery and that you can chew them up and spit them out, but this is not the way of the future in terms of how you treat your company and your people. They are your people, right. So more and more, as folks start really digging into the numbers about the damage that can be done and how much it actually costs, costs them money Like, oh, I don't want to pay for that. Well, guess what you're losing? It's an investment.
Speaker 2:
Right. Is there anything built into the Family Leave Act that you're aware of? That includes bereavement.
Speaker 3:
Family Medical Leave Act is tricky because if you are caring for someone who is ill, that's different than what happens after they pass Right. It just started when I got into it.
Speaker 3:
So it wasn't as clear or robust as it is now. So you want to be very careful about looking up how that works, because you have to apply, you have to get approval and once somebody passes, the rules change. And then you need approval from a therapist, a doctor, and so the rules can be. You want to be very careful and I'm always careful about telling folks check what the latest updates are. Go to the, you know, google it and make sure that you look that up, because it's not really built for bereavement Right.
Speaker 2:
Right. My sense is that if you're grieving and you are seeking professional help and perhaps you know you've been given a diagnosis of complex grief or something that maybe loosely could be considered because it's your illness, but if it's just because you need more time to figure out how you're going to pay the mortgage or make sure you notify the 37 companies you have to call and notify. Yes, things like that. That's probably not included in the Family Leave Act. No, and there's one other piece too that I want to make sure I mentioned a very specific instance of grief. Yes, now we talked about immediate family pretty much Mother or father, grandparent, maybe sibling a child. However, it generally does not include miscarriage, oh my, oh goodness.
Speaker 3:
No, it doesn't include a lot of things that can be just devastating on so many levels. I mean yeah, and then we can get into the discussion of the dismissal of the particular problems of women. That's a whole episode.
Speaker 2:
Right, but I know, especially because I believe there's a movement now to have them include miscarriage, because that is loss of a child, yes, but in some ways it's a form of disenfranchised grief, completely. Completely so I applaud the people that are really trying to get that included as well. Yeah, because it's everything that is traumatic.
Speaker 3:
When we say get it included, the thing is included where? Exactly Because it depends on what state you're in. It depends on your company policy? Sure, because there is no national standard Right and every time that gets brought up in Congress it immediately dies.
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 3:
So it's not, it's very. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the military just added miscarriage to their leave act. That may have been only. I'm not sure if that was only one branch or just in general, but it's oh, we have a long way to go.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, okay, so we've kind of beat the companies up about their bereavement policies, yeah, but when you do go back to work, yeah, and you're grieving, how can that affect others, how can it affect everything in the workplace? I mean, we know that the person who has suffered the loss is grieving and having difficulty, and sometimes it's tough to even pick up the phone and answer a phone call. Yeah, but is there an impact on others around them?
Speaker 3:
Oh, absolutely. I think one of the biggest challenges is folks don't know what to say. They don't know what to do and they think they're doing something and I'm sure that you've run across this as well is there's a whole category of platitudes that people say because they think that they're helpful, but they're kind of not and sometimes they actually can make things worse. So one of the things is how do you talk to someone at work? Can we? Do you want a cup of coffee? Do you want to have a chance to chat? And keep in mind, sometimes people want to chat, but please don't make me talk about the thing Exactly. Can we talk about something else? Yeah, Can we talk about a TV show or the weather, or pandas or something, Anything.
Speaker 3:
Except you know, because they need a break. But everybody wants to talk about the thing. Because, they think that's what's needed. Yeah, so asking somebody, you know, what do you want to talk about Now? The one caveat I would say is when someone says, well, what do you need? A lot of times folks don't know what they need.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
And they'll say oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, or yeah, I'm fine, yeah, and so it's also can be helpful to say, well, can I take this document off your plate? Is this, are you struggling with that? Or maybe you need to leave early today or you know, do you need a couple of extra days off? Right? Just not to ask, what do you need? Because it's like what most people really need. They need this to have not happened Absolutely, and they can't have that, which is really hard. So, but just a lot of compassion is the biggest thing I always come back to, and there can be a lot of stigma and shame connected to showing your emotions at work, yeah, and so as much gentleness and kindness as possible, and we can't assume what each person is going to be Right, right.
Speaker 2:
If you were going to offer suggestions and this just kind of flitted into my head do you think it would be better if the person who's doing the grieving returned to work and tried to establish some boundaries, so to speak? Or the people in the workplace really rallied, maybe before the person came back even and said look, she's going to come back on Monday. Yeah, it's been really rough. Can we kind of come to an agreement on how we're going to handle this and maybe come up with a plan to offer that support? Is there any sense in anything like that?
Speaker 3:
I think that the grief journey is so individual that it would be kind of tough to do that, and it has to involve the griever, so that it has to involve the griever without putting any pressure on them, which is a tricky balance, right? So if you want to do it with them, not at them, ok, you know what I mean. That's good, I like that. So that's one of the reasons that I work at advising companies. Here are some of the things that you might want to think about. If someone's had a loss, okay, how to. And you want to think about this ahead of time, because it is going to happen.
Speaker 3:
There's no question and there's probably something somebody in their company right now who's dealing with that right. So how can a person's job be made more flexible? How can they? You know, maybe they need to leave early on Mondays and Fridays. Is there any remote option possible? Right now all jobs have that, but is there any remote option? And and also, if you need an expert to consult with to be available, for me to be available for that as well, because managers and Offices aren't trained in this.
Speaker 3:
No, they're not so and and it's a lot to expect even an HR manager. They're they're managing a lot of things, a lot of moving pieces there. So to have an expert on hand say, how do I handle this, this person's responding a lot more more. This one may be more volatile, one may be more emotional, one may be completely shut down, one you say, well, their work is suffering, what do I do?
Speaker 3:
So that's why it's important to have An expert to to speak to say let me, let me have a chat with them and see what's up and To to be available for that. So it's it's. It depends on the company, it depends on the ethos, but I think it is so, so important for companies to start really having that conversation.
Speaker 2:
It'd be almost nice. Like companies have lawyers on retainer, it'd be nice for them to have a specials, you know, in grief and Probably mental health in general. Yeah, on retainer for their company.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, is, is and that's. That's one of the things that I'm offering to companies is to be a specific expert on grief and trauma. You know mental health is a huge Category right like absolutely great. Give them the gym membership.
Speaker 1:
Give them yoga, that's great.
Speaker 3:
All of the things that you know, company retreats. All of the things, and some companies are getting very creative about what wellness means right Brief and trauma is something very, very specific. It is highly emotional yeah, it is. Folks are very fragile and it's also universal, because everybody is going to lose someone or something at some point.
Speaker 2:
And it's unique because what works?
Speaker 3:
for one may not work with the next. Yeah, exactly, and it is going to leak into your workplace. It just is.
Speaker 2:
Well, claire, you have said so many things that have really not only resonated with me, but things that I think anyone who is involved in working Whether it's a private business, whether it's doing volunteer work or what but it's great information for everyone. Again, whether you're the griever or you know someone who is, we just really really need to be aware and, above all, be kind. So, absolutely, our time is is wrapping up for today, but before I actually say final words and everything, I always like to give my guests the opportunity to speak directly to our listeners, so I'm going to turn the microphone over to you. Now it's your turn and I'm not going to interrupt with questions.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. So people often ask why I do this work, because it's a heavy list, but I didn't get to where I am without other people helping me lift below that. I was dealt, and so it's now my, my privilege and blessing to be able to pay that forward. I know what it's like in the other chair from having spent so many years there, and that's why I really think it's authentically possible to shift all of the things that have been dumped in our lives and Move into a space where we feel whole, where we feel comfortable in our own skin and when we feel calmer, so that we can create a place of Life, life, life, life. It's not something ever to be taken for granted, because we don't know what tomorrow brings, and but we can pretty much guarantee that something is going to come across your plate that you may not have planned and because that's just the way it is. There's no such thing as a life that's not touched by something that is difficult, and we need a place to bring that. Place that is agenda-free, a place of authenticity and being heard and being validated and Also being given the tools, the actual tools that can shift our mind, body and spirit, so we know how to heal and how to move forward. So that's what I work at offering for my clients and that's what I've been doing for the last 15 years. So I usually find one of the best places for folks to start is to just reach out to me, whether that's on my website, which is you can heal your grief, comm, or it's directly from there or from the show notes. You can make an appointment with me for a Complementary half-hour consultation, and I don't punch a clock on the half an hour. It's just a time to get to know one another and ask whatever you would like of me and Figure out how I can support you.
Speaker 3:
I do work with folks in a number of different ways. The main way is with individual sessions, which are mostly weekly, but occasionally every other week, but the most, the most progress can be made when it's on the regular. So weekly sessions I also have for folks who really want a more personal and Intensive support. I have a three month program that I call fearless grieving to fearless living, and it's all done through an online portal where I can send you worksheets and videos and lists and ideas, meditations, all kinds of things. Whatever we agree on would work for you, and that can get sent to you as often as daily. So it's like having your personal grief and trauma coach in your pocket so that you can answer those Worksheets right in your phone and I will get those results immediately. I will give you feedback as close to immediately as I can, and so it's a very intensive ongoing discussion of your healing journey and in three months it is astonishing what people can accomplish in that space of time, because they folks sometimes really want to.
Speaker 3:
They get to a point where, like I need help with this right now. Just push everything out of the way. I need support with this. I can't do this myself. Who do I talk to? How do I do that? Once a week doesn't quite feel like enough. How do I get more? This is how you get more, and so the portal is a great, not only virtual way, but a very more. I keep using the word intensive, but it really is, and I don't mean it's just some folks need that constant drip because it's more intimate to it's more and more personal, exactly exactly and be.
Speaker 3:
You know, if you're only meeting an hour a week or an hour and a half, then the other time of the week in between you're sort of left to go back to what you were doing before, because the old patterns get very powerful. So we need something powerful to balance that out. So and I've seen folks make incredible progress in only three months, which is Amazing to watch. It's a privilege to watch. And the other, the other piece that I'm Building and growing is talking about the workplace piece, which we've been talking about that, teaching workplaces how to Deal with their employees as well as their own grief and trauma that may have occurred to them. But everybody in Any particular company is going to deal with grief. At some point there's going to be a loss, there's going to be a bereavement situation and there may also be traumatic incidents. So you companies have to know how to deal with that because it's going to affect the company culture, it's going to affect how your employees trust you and how they do their work and whether they want to stay. You know it affects your retention and how they function is going to affect your productivity in your bottom line in the long run. So it's a big culture mosaic that if those threads are left untended, a lot can unravel. So so that's really something I'm building out in my practice is working with organizations, companies, to help them understand what's happening and help them support their employees in the long run to make the whole company stronger. And that goes for solo pernures also, because a lot of us are isolated, we don't have a team to support us. So how do we manage that? So that's something else that I can offer to folks.
Speaker 3:
I do have a book, in case folks are interested, which I think Kathy will have the link to also. It is called Putting Out the Fire Nurturing Mind, body and Spirit in the First Loop of Loss and Beyond. That's a way too long subtitle, but it's. It's really, and it's not only useful for right when things have happened, but it's right at the beginning of the grief process, because a lot of times folks have had a loss but they haven't had good advice about what's happening or how to manage things. And that comes from, certainly, my own experience of when my mother passed away. I had no idea what to do. I was very young and everything was on me, so how to make those choices of how to take care of yourself, principally, but also how do you manage all the business pieces. What do you prioritize, who do you want to turn to for support, who do you not want to turn to for support, and just how to navigate those beginning pieces.
Speaker 3:
When you are still in shock, you're kind of numb, but oh, by the way, could you make 87 really important decisions in the next two hours? Well, okay, but you need it. You need a template for that, you need a blueprint for that. How do I manage that? It's not for the faint of heart, but there are answers and those are the things that I put in my book. That is on my website also, and it's nice and slim. It's 80 some pages. You can read it in the evening and it feels like you're having a conversation with me.
Speaker 3:
There's also a lot of pieces of my story in that book, so that'll tell you a little bit about what I'm coming from and why I do this work, because I think this is the most important work of our lives is how to manage those things that have gotten in the way. Something is in the way and it is keeping you from not just your best life, but it can keep you from anything unhealed can destroy everything around you. But it doesn't have to be that way. There are answers, there are tools, there is support there, and I think that there's only so many years that you can stay stuck before something in your brain says I guess there's got to be something else, there's got to be another way.
Speaker 3:
And that's usually when people reach out to me. They've tried other things, they've tried other counselors and like I just that's not, this doesn't working. Why don't I have the tools? Why don't I feel better? Let's figure that out, and I get very detailed and I really take the time to granularly, if I can use that word, to pick apart what's going on here. Let's really figure this out so that you have some answers that work particularly for you. Every client is different, every journey is different and your story is valuable and your stuckness may not be as stuck as you think. We just need that key to open that up so that you can get that sense of calm that you need and that you deserve, so you can heal. Your griefcom is where to find me and I would love to hear from any of you.
Speaker 2:
Oh well, said Great words, clary, you're very eloquent and you said so many things and I'm trying to be so quiet and, if you know me, it's hard for me to stay quiet, but I was. I was nodding my head. It's a good thing. There's nothing radley in there. Some comments I have to say about some of the words you said. Is everyone today's a new day? Generations ago, we were taught either by instruction or by role model that if?
Speaker 2:
you have a situation in your life that's traumatic or grief. If someone died or you lost something important to you, you stuffed it and you just went on this is a new day. Don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:
We don't better and often the easiest way and I say easiest because I mean no needles involved, no surgery involved, nothing freaky or scary is conversation with a professional who knows how to guide and direct your healing, who will listen to you and help you sort out what you need to prioritize and everything. I can't stress that enough. And Claire is being generous. I've had other guests that have said you know, I give you a five minute phone call or something like that. There is giving you a half hour and I know that she's not going to watch the clock. One of the best, one of the best things you can do for yourself If you decide that you want to venture forth and find a professional to help you. Not every professional is going to be right for you.
Speaker 2:
So when someone offers you an opportunity to just chat on an informal basis at no charge to you. That will help you identify whether this is the person that you feel you can trust with your confidences, that you have a feeling or a sense call it chemistry that they're going to be supportive of your needs. That first and primest primos. I like that word. I like it too.
Speaker 3:
First and primary.
Speaker 2:
They're not going to judge you because they've been through their own experiences.
Speaker 3:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
So I'm that. No, I encourage any and all of you, whether you even think seeking out a professional help is warranted or not, give Claire a call. Give Claire a call. She'll, she'll say at least a guarantee, at least one thing that will help you in that free half hour. So you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Speaker 3:
Okay, I'll do my best anyway.
Speaker 2:
I know, I, you know. I know you well enough at this point and we don't know each other real well, but I know you well enough to know that there will be something of value in every conversation you have. So, on that note, self care is vital, you know, and one way to take care of yourself is to do what's right for you to be able to move forward and to heal. Progress may be slow, it may be painful, because heaven knows healing hurts.
Speaker 3:
Not. Healing hurts more.
Speaker 2:
Yeah right, so just do it. Take care of yourself and do what you need to do. So until next week everyone. Thanks again for listening, thanks for taking the time. Whether you're on a commute to or from school, we're sports events. Wherever you are curled up on the couch Doesn't matter. We appreciate you all around the world and I hope you tune in again next time as we all continue to live in grief.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at asylevangrievecom and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live in grief together.