The Silent Echoes of an Empath's Grief

When your heart is heavy with grief, finding a harbor in the storm can be your lifeline. Join me as I chat with Tammy Zumbo, a clinical social worker, who offers her insights on how those with empathic sensibilities manage loss.  Tammy's expertise offers comfort and a deeper understanding of the powerful intersection between empathy and grief.

Do you know an empath? Are you empathic? What are your thoughts? We welcome your emails...

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com 
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve 
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve 

To Reach Tammy:
Website: www.tammyzumbo.com
Email:  tammylcswr@gmail.com

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Transcript

Stephanie: 0:01

Welcome to, As I Live in Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Kathy: 0:27

Hi everyone. Welcome back to As I Live and Grieve. I'm so thankful and grateful for every single one of you listeners out there. You really keep me going and although I don't know you personally, and have no idea how many of you there are, I know in my heart that every one of you is struggling, just like I have in the past. I'm certainly not struggling much anymore, and a lot of that is due to you and the fact that you have placed your trust in me and turned to me for some insight and awareness. I have a great guest today. With me today is Tammy Zumbo. Tammy, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with me today.

Tammy: 1:09

Thank you, Kathy.

Kathy: 1:11

Absolutely my pleasure to have you with me today, and I'm really looking forward to our topic. Before we get started, would you just share a little bit of your background with our listeners, please?

Tammy: 1:20

Sure. So I'm a licensed clinical social worker. I've been in practice for over 30 years. I do specialize in seeing people who would be described as sensitive empath light workers would be another term. I also work with the LGBTQ community and I have had an extensive background in working in grief and grieving. I was a bereavement counselor for many years with Mountain Valley Hospice, so I did work with patients and running bereavement groups, and a good deal of my practice also deals with grief.

Kathy: 1:56

Well, that makes you one very special person, because when people can work with those who are grieving to me, they just oh, they're angels. They really are, because grief is very difficult to understand. We know it's different for every single person, and even for every single person, every instance of grief in their lives can be different as well. I've had four major losses at different points in my life, and everyone has been vastly different from the previous one, with my most recent, the loss of my husband, the most difficult to get through, but I'm in a great place now and I'm probably the happiest I've ever been in my life. Now you mentioned empaths, light workers, whatever you call them. Could you describe for me what an empath is? I think I might know, but I'm sure there's listeners out there too that have heard the term but really aren't sure what it is, what it means.

Tammy: 2:51

Okay, so an empath is somebody, t ypically some of the characteristics are somebody who is very sensitive to energy, and by energy I mean the energy field that radiates off of our bodies. It's been measured about eight to 10 inches which is our aura, and there are other types of energy fields as well. But empaths tend to pick up on that energy and then have trouble distinguishing whether it's theirs or if somebody else's. So when I see people that are empathic or empaths in my practice they often present with anxiety and depression because they've had trouble juggling that energy and it can cause anxiety. Of course it's kind of an overload, it's a flood of emotions or it could be a flood of feeling somebody else's physical ailments or physical pain. So empaths tend to take all of that on and tend to have trouble functioning for that reason. So much of my practice focuses on helping people distinguish what's theirs, what somebody else's, how to shield and protect themselves energetically and how to disconnect energetically. So I do also use many different types of techniques, which are energy-based techniques, energy psychology and energy medicine.

Kathy: 4:11

Wow, I've never heard it described that way and that really just kind of blows my mind with what I thought an empath was. Now, that doesn't necessarily correlate to me that if you suffer from anxiety and or depression, you are an empath. That's true, okay. So how would someone know that the issues they're having for example, I have anxiety and depression Does that make me an empath? I've been called sensitive.

Tammy: 4:38

Right, yeah, and sometimes people are called sensitive and it's not always in a positive way, like empaths are used to hearing oh, you're so sensitive, we didn't mean it that way. Or like being asked what's wrong with them because they're having trouble functioning. So typically people know that their empaths and people that come into my office will start describing difficulties that they've had. I asked them. One of the indicators would be did you feel different? Maybe like when you went into a store or you went into a crowded place. Maybe you went to a conference or a concert and you didn't feel or maybe it's a small gathering, could be a party or some type of social gathering when you didn't feel a certain way. Maybe you didn't feel anxious, or maybe you didn't feel overwhelmed, or maybe you didn't feel like you had a pain in your stomach and then afterwards you feel that.

Tammy: 5:35

Or have you had an experience where you've said to somebody you've asked like is something wrong with your arm? Like are you having pain in your arm? Because all of a sudden I'm having pain in my arm, and that person confirms for you, like yes, that's really weird, because people will say that's really weird because I was just having this weird pain. So empathic people also tend to be highly intuitive, so their intuition can kind of be overwhelming for them as well, because they're picking up on so many things. It's kind of like being in a storm and you're not sure how to designate all of that energy, how to filter that energy.

Kathy: 6:17

So would it be safe to say that you probably would start noticing more coincidences in how you're feeling as compared to what's happening around you? There'd be more similarities. Is that a fair statement?

Tammy: 6:29

That is. Yeah, I should say that's an accurate statement.

Kathy: 6:32

Okay, all right, that helps. That helps quite a bit.

Tammy: 6:35

So if someone is empathic and they themselves are grieving, or are surrounded by perhaps they have a close friend or another member of their family who's grieving, how can that impact the empath, Because the impact is so sensitive to energy and would be particularly sensitive to grief, because you know, we all know, because we've all experienced losses, that grief is a potent emotion and so the impact would possibly be overwhelmed by that grief. They're having trouble because empaths also tend to be helpers, tend to be sometimes, you know, what I would call it, healers. I think you mentioned, like you know, angels, earth angels.

Tammy: 7:20

I would say empaths, so they would be trying to sometimes take on the other person's pain, and often that's what they'll say to me is like I just want to take it on for them, I just want to, you know, like take it on so they can be relieved of that pain. So that's, you know, that's boundaries, right? We're going to discuss boundaries like physical boundaries and energetic boundaries, so that you don't take on somebody else's pain. You allow them to digest and work through their own, but you can support them, but not take on theirs.

Kathy: 7:54

Okay, I'm sensing similarities between what empaths feel related to the energy and possibly what mediums might feel and that mediums are able to communicate with that energy. Can you kind of clarify for me what the difference is between an empath and a medium?

Tammy: 8:15

So it's interesting that you brought that up, kathy, because a lot of times empaths are mediums. They may not identify as a medium, but oftentimes I'll see people in my office that will say I'm not sure if something's wrong with me, because I'm hearing these things or I'm seeing things and people are kind of, you know, reluctant or hesitant to disclose that sometimes because maybe they've gotten the message that that might be something that is a mental illness, right, and something that they may be like. Some people will say to me you know, I don't know if I need to be committed, worried about this, or is it even safe for me to say this to you as a mental health practitioner?

Kathy: 8:57

Right.

Tammy: 8:59

So some empaths will identify as mediums or having mediumship type qualities or psychic abilities. That's pretty common with empaths, so that again can be a source of being, you know, feeling overwhelmed, feeling like maybe I'm not okay, I'm not like my friends, I'm not like my family, they don't tend to fit in. That's a big thing with empaths. So of course that causes right and that causes pain, because you know they were never like their families or their friends or they're feeling like they're different.

Kathy: 9:32

Okay, all right. Now you're a social worker, so it's part of your career, your field, to offer therapy to people that are having various problems. Grief can be one of them, of course, and again it doesn't have to be grief by losing someone through death. It could be grief over loss of a lifestyle, maybe divorce or loss of a job or just whatever. You know, grief in general is just reaction to a loss. So, as a social worker, that's part of your practice. So how does being an empath aid that? What other benefit is there to someone seeing an empath if they're grieving and need some help?

Tammy: 10:14

So as an empath myself? You're asking, Kathy?

Kathy: 10:16

Yes, okay, what do you feel that adds to your practice?

Tammy: 10:20

So I feel it adds an extra sense, an ability to sense energy and to sense. You know, sometimes I know things before my client will say them, or sometimes it's difficult, especially in first sessions, for people to say things, and so I can help them because I already know, I have a sense of that, because I read energy, because I'm highly intuitive and also have some of those medium qualities that I discovered years ago when I was a child. I thought everybody had them and then I discovered it's not true. Not everybody talks to spirit or can feel or sense spirit. So I felt that that's been helpful. It really has been helpful in working with people who are grieving, because I do know, you know, I just get these senses, I get intuitive hits, I feel things before they say them and I can support them in that.

Tammy: 11:13

And sometimes, like years ago, I didn't, I was reluctant to disclose that I knew this information because as a mental health practitioner, I also didn't want to appear that maybe something, maybe that I had. You know that I was hearing voices. This is a concern. People and I've had young kids say that to me like I don't know if I should tell you this, but sometimes I hear people in my house and they're not here physically, and so I've learned that I needed to share that information with people, that I feel that it's a almost a dishonor to not share that, and I feel that it's part of my role here and my mission here on this planet. I feel that is to share that information and to help people to acknowledge that being psychic, being intuitive, being a medium, being an empath is actually a gift and not a burden, and it's something we can work with. So it's part of the reason I became a therapist is to validate for people that nothing is wrong with you.

Tammy: 12:14

You're not mentally ill. Maybe you've been told that, maybe you've had some issues with anxiety or depression or other types of issues, but it doesn't mean, because you're an empath and you're sensitive, that you're mentally ill.

Kathy: 12:26

Okay, and as an empath, when you are grieving or when an empath is grieving, is their grief different and I know it's different for everyone. But are they more susceptible, perhaps, to lower lows, I guess is what I'm trying to ask because of their intuitive ability and their sensitivity? Are they? Is it more difficult, I guess, for them to grieve?

Tammy: 12:51

It can be, Kathy, I do think that's accurate. I do have, you know, people that have lost children, and one person in particular I can think of as she's highly intuitive and an empath and so in a way, it's helping her to be empathic and to be able to communicate with her child. So that's, you know, that has been beneficial in her grief, but also it's difficult in the same sense, because she feels it so deeply and she feels her family's grief as well, as we were talking about earlier, that she's absorbing that. So it can. They can be susceptible to lower lows. I would say that's accurate.

Kathy: 13:31

Okay, yeah, I just. I think we as society, as people, just need to do a better job in general of acknowledging that there are things out there that are greater than we are, things that not all of us can understand or appreciate if it's not part of our lives. And for a long, long time, you know, people would think, oh, you're a medium, all right, you're just right out there on the edge. You know you're way out there. But when science now has really been able to prove that it's all about energy and it's all, truly all about energy, then you start to reduce your skepticism. I think you may still hold it because you haven't been touched by that experience. That really proves to you personally that this is real. But I think we have to be more open-minded to the entire situation, that there are people out there with these gifts and at some point in our lives we may encounter them and at some point in our lives there may be that light bulb moment where you encounter them and experience their talent, their skill of their ability for healing or for using, recognizing that energy for something. So I would just like to encourage people to be a little more open-minded in that respect.

Kathy: 14:50

I know I have become more open-minded with so many different guests that I have talked with, because I guess my basis for everything is scientific.

Kathy: 15:00

If I can't see it, touch it, feel it or prove it, it's hard for me to believe and to grasp. But the more I talk with people, they are offering me little bits and pieces of what I consider scientific and real proof that things happen, and I've been part of little experiments here and there that have been quite exciting for me, so I do want to encourage people to do that. I also want to take a moment and encourage our listeners out there that are grieving, or if you know someone who is grieving and they're having a very, very, very difficult time, that it might be time for them to consider reaching out to a professional and getting more help. Can you help me out, tammy, on this aspect and let me know perhaps some signs or symptoms people might recognize in themselves that might indicate they really should seek professional help for their grief? Or, if you know someone who's struggling, what you might look for to know that maybe it's time to have that conversation with them.

Tammy: 16:00

Yes, I also wanted to address what you were just saying Sure too, Kathy, about recognizing psychic abilities or medium abilities as being more in the norm rather than being something that's strange and weird or something to be fearful of.

Tammy: 16:20

One of the things that I think is helpful is to normalize it, especially for your children. Yes, one thing I did with my children because my children are also empathic, and that does tend to happen when the parents are empathic, you tend to have children who are empathic, and so one of the things that I would do is say to my kids it's okay if you see, for instance, my grandmother had passed when I had moved into a new house and my daughter was seeing her in the house and so we talked about it's okay that you see Nani, it's okay for you to talk to Nani, just to normalize it.

Tammy: 16:56

So that it's not weird or scary or your child doesn't feel like something's wrong with them. So it'll allow them to make that language more normal and just part of your energy. And everything is energy. Everything has energy, plants have energy, people have energy, animals have energy. So just to talk about that energy and to validate and support your children, that's helpful.

Tammy: 17:20

So, as far as grief and depression and just recognizing when somebody may be in a space that they may need to talk to a professional, some of the signs and symptoms to look for are loss of appetite.

Tammy: 17:34

Sometimes it's a loss of appetite, other times it's an increase in appetite. So people may use food to self-medicate and to numb some of that pain. Other times they don't have much of an appetite. Sleeping sleep disturbance, like sleeping excessively or having trouble sleeping, could be another symptom and with the depression, sometimes it's isolation. So if you're seeing somebody that's maybe not really engaging, that's had a loss, you may want to reach out to them in gentle ways. They may not be ready to talk and oftentimes I feel like people sometimes are allergic to grief, that it's very difficult to know what to say to a grieving person and sometimes you don't need to say anything, sometimes just dropping something off at their house or just reaching out with a text or a call. They may not be ready to see people, but just to let them know that you're there and ready to support them.

Kathy: 18:30

That's great advice. I especially love the just reach out to them. One of the kindest and sweetest gestures that was done after Tom died was that it was a cousin of his, someone who I really wasn't very close to. But a cousin of his sent me a greeting card once a week for their first couple of months and it was just a very sweet message thinking of you, nothing else thinking of you or hope you're doing okay, or you were in my thoughts today and every week when I went to the mailbox that card was there. That day just lifted my spirits so much and then it tapered off after that. But I just thought that was such a sweet, easy thing to do Buy some cards, stick some stamps on them, write just a few soft, sweet words and it just let me know that somebody was thinking of me in my grief. Very, very special, very sweet thing to do.

Kathy: 19:27

I do want to encourage people, and I almost think that if you just feel yourself that you're struggling and I know personally, you start to have that thought of oh my God, I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life that starts to creep into your thoughts. It wouldn't hurt for you just to reach out to a professional for just one single consultation session. That will do a couple of things for you. It will either validate that you're on the right track and you're doing okay and maybe you just need a little more time, or it will also let you know that you're really, really struggling and that someone can help you. So, if you consider it, I truly think that that is the best solution. You don't have to commit to anything with just one initial session, because part of it is also about finding someone you can work with. If you do need to work a little more therapy and everything you need to find someone that you can relate to, that you trust, that you feel comfortable with. So it's also a good opportunity for that. But it certainly doesn't hurt to reach out to a professional who can just let you know that you're doing okay. They're not there to snap up your money because you're people that have licenses. They're held to certain standards and regulations. They're there to help you and that's exactly what they'll do.

Kathy: 20:55

So you said some other things when you were responding, and you know I don't mean to jump back and forth, but when you were talking about your kids, a thought flashed in my head. I love the words you used about validate and normalize. I especially love that word normalize, and it is important for their kids, in so many areas of their lives, to normalize what they're experiencing, because that opens up the avenue for conversation. The thought that popped in my head, tammy, was that for all of the children's books out there, I don't know of a book that deals with a child who might be empathic or have this special sensitivity. So put that in the back of your brain.

Kathy: 21:34

That would be a great book to introduce to the younger generation, I think, because not only might they be experiencing it, but they might know someone who does. And what a great opportunity to put it out there, and then it could be easy conversation for people as well. So I just wanted to throw that comment your way. I certainly don't feel qualified to write it, but I know you could. I know you could I could write it.

Tammy: 21:58

Yeah, you could. I'm writing a book right now for adults, so I would consider one for children. The adult version of my book is called Rebellious Healers Finding your Balance or Discovering Yourself. I'm still playing with the title, but it will be about rebellious healers discovering yourself and finding your balance, and it's also a reason why I named my practice Balance Energy Wellness, because I felt like a lot of people are seeking balance when they come in yes, that book will be for people who are empaths, lightworkers, indigo souls or crystal souls, ones who have been told that their you know, that their rebellion maybe was not a positive thing but they didn't feel like they fit in.

Tammy: 22:42

They probably were rebellious spirits, so I'd like to use that as a trans. Like, rebellion is a transformative tool rather than being something negative. And so it'll be a blend of like self-help and memoir.

Kathy: 22:54

Sounds fascinating. I actually like that term rebellious healers. To me it's very intriguing and I would want to know more about that particular twist and use of those words. It sounds like a great book, but yeah, it sounds like you also could do a children's book as well.

Tammy: 23:12

Yeah, Thank you for that idea, but that kind of oh no problem at all.

Kathy: 23:15

Anytime I get those ideas, I always transfer them to the people that can do them most. I have projects of my own that I'm working on. I'm also working on a book. But that wants me to turn the conversation now, and I actually want to turn the microphone over to you, because I know you have a lot that you can offer our listeners and as well I know you probably have a personal message for them. So I want you to take your time. You can tell them maybe when your book might come out, if you have any thoughts on that, tell them what you can offer them and everything. Just know that whatever information you offer about website etc. That contact information will also be in the podcast notes, so our listeners don't have to feel they have to scramble for a pencil at this moment, because it will be available to them. So, tammy, this is your turn. Microphone is yours.

Tammy: 24:07

Okay, thanks, Kathy. So I did want to pick up on something that you had said, encouraging your listeners to seek therapy. Of course, I feel that's very important. I wouldn't have become a therapist if I didn't feel it was a valuable tool to people and to help aid them in their healing journey. I also wanted to add that if you see a therapist and it doesn't feel right, maybe you don't resonate with that therapist, maybe that therapist is not the right person for you to work with, and so I would encourage people also to not give up if you go to the first session and you feel like maybe this person's style isn't the right style or you're just not feeling like the person you want to work with. So I'm encouraging people to also find somebody that you really resonate with. Maybe do some research also before you go see that therapist. But I do feel it's a beneficial tool and I do feel that I hope people will utilize that. But I just wanted to add you were asking me about messages, Kathy to not be afraid to try something new, to not be afraid to maybe do something that you've always wanted to do. Like.

Tammy: 25:16

For me, it's writing a book. I'm in publishing the book, which I'm hoping that it's published by the end of this year. That's my goal. Writing a children's book is an awesome idea too. I like that.

Tammy: 25:27

I encourage people to play too. I feel like we kind of have lost that. Sometimes, and especially when we're grieving, people feel guilty to be happy and to play, and we know that our loved ones want us to play, but we don't always have that energy available to us. So to play, to connect with others and to allow others to help you, because often, as healers ourselves, as helpers, as therapists, as whatever way you identify yourself, we have difficulty asking for help. So I also encourage people to allow others to gift you with their love and support I feel like that's really important and to be willing to look at different modalities. So some of the modalities that I use, like energy psychology, for instance, that's tapping. It's also called EFT, emotional freedom technique and we're tapping on the endpoints of meridians, which are rivers of energy and Chinese medicine. They're very potent energy points, because what they do by tapping and we use different phrases while we're tapping to decrease the intensity level of whatever's going on in our lives. That might be to decrease anxiety, it might be to decrease fear, it might be to decrease sadness, could be used for anything. And what happens when we're using this modality is we rewire the brain by forming new pathways they're called neuro pathways so we then are able to handle triggers in a different way.

Tammy: 26:59

And we know grief is very triggering. We know that it hits us when we least expect it. Maybe we're in the grocery store when it's not a convenient time to be crying and maybe you don't want to. I was talking to somebody the other day about how grief hits us and it feels like a wave hitting us on the back of the legs, like when we have our back face to the ocean and we don't know that wave's coming, and then we feel like our footing is being lost as the wave recedes. So it feels like that, and you would also mention that it's not always grief related to a physical loss of a person. It could be a loss of a job, a loss of a relationship, a loss of a pet divorce, even though maybe it's something you wanted and it wasn't a healthy relationship. You still grieve. So, stepping into your authenticity, I also feel that that can be a loss because you shed and leave the old behind you. So there's many different types of losses that energy modalities help with as well.

Kathy: 28:02

How can people reach you?

Tammy: 28:03

So they can reach me through my website, which is www. tammyzumbo. com. Also email, which is TammyLCSWR@ gmailcom. Super, super.

Kathy: 28:18

Okay, as I said before, Tammy's contact information will be in the podcast notes, so you don't have to try to commit it to memory. We'll make it very easy for you. If, for some reason, you can't find it somewhere or can't reach her, feel free to reach out to me by email. I will certainly put you in contact with her.

Kathy: 28:37

You know I hate this time when our time has run out for the episode and everything, but I keep in my mind, in the back of my mind, that there's going to be another episode beyond this one. So that means I have to say goodbye for the day. Tammy, thank you so so much for taking time out of your schedule to chat with me. I know you're going to return because we've already talked about a potential topic for a second episode and everyone will be delighted with that as well.

Kathy: 29:06

To my listeners out there remember self-care. It's the one thing that I remind you of episode after episode after episode, because to me it's critical when you're grieving, it's critical if you know someone who's grieving, try to do something very small to help them take care of themselves. And for me, self-care can be as simple as hanging out with the right people. So be the supportive person in someone's life if they're grieving. Be there, maybe not for conversation, maybe to listen, maybe to just sit in silence and watch a TV show, or sit on the edge of a dock with your feet in the water, side by side, just in companionship.

Kathy: 29:47

The other thing you can do as they progress in their grief is to remember to mention the name of the loved one they lost. My heart just brightens when someone says something about Tom. You know, oh, that's a baseball cap that Tom would have loved. Look at that t-shirt. Did Tom have one of those? It just makes my day, and maybe I wasn't even thinking of him at the moment, but the fact that someone else has a memory of him is really, really important. So again, self-care, love each other, support each other, be there for each other and please come back again next week as we all continue to live and grieve.