As I Live and Grieve®
It’s time for grief to come out of the basement, or wherever we have stuffed it to avoid talking about it. When you suffer a loss you need support, comfort, and a safe place to heal. What you are experiencing is painful but normal, unique but similar, surreal but very, very real. As grief advocates we understand and want to provide support, knowledge and comfort as you continue to live and grieve. Host, Kathy Gleason; Producer, Kelly Keck. www.asiliveandgrieve.com
As I Live and Grieve®
Grief is a Mixtape
What happens when music becomes your lifeline through life’s toughest moments? Join us as we welcome Ken Rutley, a dedicated music enthusiast and recent widower, to share his poignant story of finding solace in melodies after the passing of his beloved wife, Lindy. Ken's heartfelt recounting reveals how songs serve as an emotional anchor, providing both joy and a path to navigate grief.
Throughout the episode, we explore the intriguing relationship between music and emotions, especially how certain songs can resonate deeply in times of loss. Reflecting on personal favorites like "Mexican Moon" by Concrete Blonde and "Ordinary World" by Duran Duran, we discuss how music can mirror the emotional stages of grief, offering comfort and fostering healing. Adding a touch of nostalgia, we celebrate the art of mixtapes, with a fun challenge of crafting a musical journey—from tears to hope—through a thoughtful selection of songs.
Tune in for a rich dialogue on music's transformative power in our personal journeys of loss and renewal.
Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
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Listen to Ken's Podcast:
Scratch Made A Mixtape: https://open.spotify.com/show/0X4GCQHQSJKbPY7ykWzIhA
Credits:
Music by Kevin MacLeod
Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. Welcome back again to another episode of as I Live in Grief. Yes, I've got another cold Seems. I had one a couple months ago, but the weather up here in upstate New York is just cold appropriate it really is. So you'll have to pardon my gravelly voice and the occasional cough if I do that. But hey, you know it's me. You've known me for four years now. With me today is Ken Rutley. He is a delightful person and we have become fast friends. Ken, thanks so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you so much for having me, Kathy. I'm really looking forward to the conversation that we have sort of talked about previously.
Speaker 2:No, me too. You know we always, whenever we get together, we start to talk about our initial focus and then we kind of segue into who knows what. And that was no different today. So we have focused now and hit the record button. So we're going to talk about music and grief. So, ken, before we get started, would you just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3:I'd be happy to. I guess the first place to start is I've always been a music fan and growing up as a kid we as a family had a very eclectic kind of music collection. So I grew up listening to lots of popular music from the 60s and also listening to operas and musicals and things of that nature. So I've always had a love for music and all kinds of genres and as I got older I sort of gravitated to well, popular kind of music, but other things as well, and I guess I have a real appreciation for different genres. Some I like more than others I could use. I think we could say that about all of us right, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So I've always kind of been a music fan per se and I played instruments in bands in high school and and little garage bands after I'd finished high school and that kind of thing. How we met was at Camp Widow in Toronto back in November and I remember sitting down beside you and we just kind of got talking and I discovered that you had a podcast and you had you know through that I had told you that I have a podcast as well and my podcast is about music, almost like the traditional mixtape from way back in the day, and so that's what mine's about. I'm new to being a widow.
Speaker 3:I have two children, one 22 and one 17, both daughters and both adopted from China, and we're working through, I guess, the first year of not having Lindy, their mother and my wife around anymore and just sort of the transition I don't even want to say transition, that's not the right word just the journey I think that's the better word that we're having now is challenging at times, but times we remember who she was and what she did for us as a mother and as a wife and partner and just good human being and that does help us kind of get through the tough times. But it's a journey I never thought I'd be taking and now that I'm on it I realize you know, once you become a widow you really appreciate other widows and what they can do for you, and that's really why we're here. You and I met in Camp Widow and here we are having a discussion about how grief can sort of sometimes be tempered or by music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, we all know that with grief comes a variety of symptoms, not the least of which are anger, sadness, just devastation.
Speaker 3:Very true.
Speaker 2:Sometimes joy, yes, when you latch onto that memory that makes you smile. Yeah, I know I have a bunch of those and for me, as time goes on, I find myself probably smiling more than crying and I don't really know when that evolution took place. Like you, ken, music was a huge part of my life as I was growing up. I was always in the church choir, I think probably from the time I was six. They had a children's choir and then there was a youth choir and then I was in the adult choir. I was in band. In high school I played clarinet. I was in the band. I was in concert band. I was in march band. I was in pep band. I was in a clarinet ensemble. Music was just a part of my life, it just was. I took piano lessons starting at the age of four until I was about 14. I could sit down now and play chopsticks and probably blunder through a piece of sheet music but, it doesn't come naturally to me.
Speaker 2:I was always one that had to practice at it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:But because of that and because of the many car trips with family and my father always had the radio- on and would be singing.
Speaker 2:He was in barbershop quartet in addition to church choir, but music was always a part of our lives in addition to church choir, but music was always a part of our lives, Everything from music back in the 40s right up to and including today's music. My older grandson, Nate, is in a band and they play a lot of Guns N' Roses and Alice in Chains and all of those, and guess what? This grandma's at every gig because music is part of my life.
Speaker 3:And I think it's wonderful that you have that sort of supportive relationship with your grandson. I'm just wondering what you would be wearing at a heavy metal gig or a hard rock gig.
Speaker 2:Fortunately, the gigs he plays are local establishments and they're more just. You know, I can wear my jeans and t-shirt. I do have a slash t-shirt that he bought me that I have not yet been able to wear to a gig because it's recent. He recently went to Toronto when Slash was there, and actually I gifted him with the VIP ticket for him and his mom, who went with him, and my daughter, stephanie, and they got to sit into a what do they call it? The audio check.
Speaker 3:Oh, soundcheck.
Speaker 2:The soundcheck, with Slash himself on stage and they were like in the front row and very close.
Speaker 1:And that was a treat for me, oh.
Speaker 3:I could imagine.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the point is, music's always been a part of my life and, without realizing it, I found that I would gravitate to different music depending on what I was feeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can share that with you.
Speaker 2:And as I was a single mom this was a single mom due to divorce back when my kids were younger. They would have trouble sleeping at night, so I would put classical music on, things like Moonlight Sonata or something. Yes, I found it relaxed them a little bit. They would focus on the melody and they would just kind of doze off, because that's what I would do as well. If I needed to motivate myself, I would put something rousing on. You know, and I don't even know. A lot of times I know the songs. I may not know the title or the artist but that's just me.
Speaker 2:I just know the feeling it gives me. Lately I've been into a new album that's out by john baptiste okay he took some classical pieces and fused them with jazz. Oh, okay and it's a very interesting album and I just love it. And the reason jazz has come back is because nate the grandson again is. He's a senior in college and he's majoring in music the audio production theory, so he's learning to be a sound engineer and all that to bolster his music career and he's also in a jazz ensemble and has really come to enjoy jazz.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, so we were talking about that. That's really interesting In your podcast and everything. What approach? What's your angle on music? Do you approach it like from the chart busters? Do you approach it from artist by artist? What's your approach?
Speaker 3:I still have a CD player which I use quite often. So I have, I would say, a modest collection of CDs and I also have some cassettes. At one point in my possession I actually had an 8-track player, but I got rid of that because, one, it wasn't working, and two, when you find 8-tracks in the vintage wild, vintage wild, they'll call it or scrounging around they are.
Speaker 3:They're always really in bad shape and and so you know you really you're buying it for the novelty of having it, but the sound is. That's why it's nice to be able to buy cds. Still, people don't want them, but oh yeah, but uh, and so anyways, my, my podcast sort of takes a theme. So maybe the theme might be movie soundtracks. All right, so I'll curate what's in my collection and then I'll take out songs, like making a mixtape. So it's like, okay, I'm making this kind of mixtape for someone who might be like this or whatever.
Speaker 3:And then you pick out the songs and then you curate them, songs, and then you curate them and then you put the, you sort of plunk them in, and then I just talk a little bit about the background of the song or maybe the artist or or what, how I feel it fits into the podcast. And then, kathy, I'll let myself stream one song, and the one song I stream it is is kind of my way of saying, oh, I, I cop, I stole this one off the radio. Remember the day and you would have no intro. It would just cut in sharply and you'd have, because the DJ was talking at the beginning of the song. So I count that as being able to. You know, stream a song or you borrow an album from somebody, or what have you.
Speaker 3:So anyway, so that's kind of what it is. It's a 12 song show and I stream it over, or I only stream it on Spotify, for the very reason that Spotify has an agreement with artists that if you're podcasting, you can use songs in their full, like the full song. That's what I want to say.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, without worrying about paying fees and everything like that. Yeah, yeah, so that's yes.
Speaker 3:So that's why I'm just kind of a Spotify podcaster at this point, because the whole underlying idea is that you want to have the whole song there, so you can sort of go into a more in-depth kind of experience. On a platform where you're only allowed to play a few seconds or 30 seconds or whatever, it doesn't have the same impact. So, yeah, so I realize it, maybe less people will hear it, but I think having the full song is really important to the essence of what it is.
Speaker 2:Yes, and let's face it, we don't always do podcasting just so a number of people can hear it. Sometimes we do it just because we feel we have something to say and we know that there are out there, there are listeners that who want to hear.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly, and it's I do it because you know I'm retired now and I guess I need something to keep me out of trouble, so that's what I'll be doing right now. It's on hiatus. My wife died and my mother died a few months previous to that, so it was a long, kind of tough go, and I just had to put that particular passion on the back burner.
Speaker 3:And now that things are, starting to, you know, get back on track. I'm thinking more and more about let's get this thing going again, because I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, come on, let's give me credit here, ken, you know I'm having you on this podcast and that's giving you the fever again.
Speaker 3:It has, it actually has. You're on this podcast and that's given you the fever again it has. It actually has. I wake up every morning and I say I can't let Kathy down, I gotta get this episode together yeah, no, I well, you know what. It has been nice to sort of have you know someone like you, sort of you know take an interest in it and make me sort of rekindle the fire I had for that.
Speaker 2:Well, and I have to admit, if I was doing a podcast just totally solo I probably would have quit long ago. But it's having guests every week that really keep it alive for me because I love the people and I always learn something. Okay, a question for you. Music has been vital in your life? Yes, and you recently actually had two losses. Yes, yes, did you turn to music in your grief?
Speaker 3:Heavily, heavily, especially with regard to Lindy, my, my wife, you know it. It has been a way for me to release a lot of the emotion that that comes with grieving and I. I have a little playlist and I have several little playlists, but one of them is called the missing you playlist and there's songs that either remind me of things that we had done together, you know as whether it be she and I or as a family, and also songs that just have that kind of quality of just you can't help but let them allow that, or allow them to tap into what you're feeling, and they just bring forth emotion, and a lot of them are, you know what, uh kind of crying songs. To be honest with you, yeah, and I will listen to that and it will make me, you know, sort of have the desired effect it will have the desired effect, but also, not only that, it will just.
Speaker 3:It's almost. You know, kathy, it's almost like you have permission to become emotional right like you're listening to a sad song and some people find it very difficult to show emotion and that kind of thing, but if you have it within that kind of context, well, you're allowed to cry at a sad song, right and, and so it kind of allows you a little bit of leniency to be vulnerable with yourself or whatever right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. I think you may have coined a new phrase music is permission to feel. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Thank, you.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2:Did you find that it was only when you had a certain type of feeling, like when you were really sad or when you got angry, or was it only with a certain feeling that you would turn to music?
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't know if there's. I think it's almost as if you know how there's, the grieving phases of grief. Right, I still am very much in the phase of missing her desperately. Still am very much in the phase of missing her desperately and, you know, waking up in a bed where it's now just instead of the three of us, because I'm including the dog in there.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's just the dog and I that wake up in the bed, and and so there's, as you probably know. You know you can't walk through your home without having literally hundreds of memories come at you.
Speaker 2:It's like stubbing your toe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and everywhere I look there's something of her remains right.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think at this point it's almost like a bit of a trend. Maybe I'm going through a transitionary sort of phase, but the first part was really sad. Sad kind of songs and songs that either the music itself I found sad or the lyrics I found sad.
Speaker 3:In some cases the combination of both was something, and I realized that every sad song you listen to is written by the sad person who wrote it. And, having said that, you find little consistencies in every song that speak to you very directly and it's almost like you take those out. And it's not even necessarily the whole piece, but maybe those little snippets that really resonate with you and that's what I kind of find with myself is there's either a lyric or a passage. It really means even more because it touches me so personally and reminds me of so many things that were part of our life together.
Speaker 2:Right, and admittedly, that same phrase, those same lyrics, could mean something entirely different to someone else. Absolutely Because music is very personal. Yes, okay, and we react to it much the way we grieve, totally in a unique way.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. It was just that, and that's what I found when I was in Toronto at the camp where we both were. Is that how unique each person's experience was right, and then so how we were all there because we lost a partner, but just the stories there were so different and and so, like you say, the stories are different, the grieving is different and what you take from a piece of music will be different as well, and very similar you know, personalized to you, and I think that's what makes it so powerful, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, do you have a go-to song?
Speaker 3:I actually do have one, and it's a song I've really, as far as the grief context goes, it's a song I've really I've listened to and has been part of my sort of inventory of things I've always sort of, I guess, relied on Maybe that's a way of putting it. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this. It's a band from Los Angeles. They're called Concrete Blonde. Have you heard of Concrete Blonde? No, okay, well, maybe your grandson might know Concrete Blonde.
Speaker 2:He probably does. He knows it all yeah well, there you go.
Speaker 3:But Concrete Blonde has a song called Mexican Moon, mexican, mexican Moon, mexican Moon by Concrete Blonde, and what the song is really basically about is that there's this woman singing about, you know, losing somebody and she's in Mexico and she's singing this song under the Mexican moon, and just the intro itself for me is something that you know. There's an acoustic guitar and it really draws me in. And then the lead singer of this band her name is Jeanette Napolitano or something and something along those lines. Jeanette, if you ever hear this, my apologies to you, but she has kind of like the Kathy Cold voice and it's got a raspiness to it, and the lyrics, her vocal style and just the composition of the song itself can't help but get emotional when I hear that song.
Speaker 3:That's probably like my, my go-to one. Another song that I really quite like is by duran duran.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah I've heard of them, yeah and anyways, I'm sure you have.
Speaker 3:I guess they're kind of. We're kind of popular at one time Still going by the way, yeah, they were Still going.
Speaker 2:Well, aren't they all? Aren't they all, some of them?
Speaker 3:yeah, still going. Good for them. And anyways, they have a song called Ordinary World. I'm not sure, but that's also one worth checking out. Just about going through your life after an event and wondering when's it going to get back to being ordinary, or how can you ever and almost realizing that what does ordinary even mean? Right, and that kind of thing is. And it's like when people say oh, you know don't worry, ken, we'll get back to normal.
Speaker 3:Well, my normal was having Lindy in my life and that was my normal. Anything they should be saying well, don't worry, ken, it's going to be abnormal soon yeah, well, I don't, you know, it'll get.
Speaker 2:Eventually it'll get to a point where it's ordinary yeah it won't. It'll never be the same. No, it'll never be the same, but it'll be ordinary again yeah, at some point yeah okay, off the cuff question what emotion do you have when one of these songs ends Wow, that's a good question, I guess.
Speaker 3:sometimes it's the emotion of. I guess there's a contentment or a happiness, because maybe at that particular time, as going through the song, maybe the lasting impression I have is a positive one, right, and so maybe you get a little bit of that content, happiness, coming out of it. Sometimes they're like drinking beer as soon as you've had one you're sad, so you have another one to keep that thing going, because there has been times where it's just kind of been with you know a specific kind or a certain kind of day. You know how it is. Let's have another one, because I really need to kind of work
Speaker 3:through some things. So sometimes it's a lot of. It can vary. It really can vary. Sure, today, what I'm starting to do now you might find this interesting is I'm trying to find one song each day to try and see what my you know wrap up, maybe a quick impression of emotions and feelings, you know, in the morning when I wake up. And today's song was actually by Tom Petty and you probably know the song, even the Losers, right.
Speaker 3:So I woke up with that song in my sort of nestled in my head, because for me, the time when I met Lindy, I know it was a time for me where I was a little hard on myself, Okay.
Speaker 3:And this song kind of talks about this guy who meets someone and realizes what this person means to him and what sort of transpires from that. And what I take from that is that, you know I was at a downtime. I met a human being who I know personally changed who I was as a person and had the impression on me of. I know, without hesitation, that she motivated and supported me in a way that allowed me to become a better human being, and that's probably why I'm so devastated that she's gone is that she was such a positive force in my life. And so, anyways, I was listening to this Tom Petty song because it was kind of like you know what, I kind of lucked out. I was at a time where I was really down about myself and wondering what was going to be my life, and then I met somebody who made me realize how special it is to have an opportunity to live on this planet and even meet somebody.
Speaker 3:And that's what I sometimes say to people. They'll say oh my gosh, everything would be better if I won the lottery, right? Oh yeah?
Speaker 2:wouldn't it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but then I sort of you know my sort of response is well, okay, so let's just look at the odds of you just being alive, let alone meeting someone else who just happens to be alive, right, and you two getting together and sharing your life with one another, and then at some point. Maybe others share the life with you, children or what have you?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:And you think of what are the odds of that? And they're so infinitesimally huge right that you've already won your lottery Absolutely. And that's kind of what I sort of that's a great way to look at it that's a great way to look at it.
Speaker 2:Okay, questions on mixtapes, because I realize that some of our listeners might have heard the phrase yes, they may not really know what is a mixtape.
Speaker 3:Yes, in fact, I think, in this modern, the modern context with them kids these days, I think it's kind of like now it's yeah well it's a playlist or a mixtape might be something that an individual puts out as an independent kind of record on their own, sometimes, I think, called a mixtape. So let's clarify for your audience, however old they may be or not be Quite a range, quite a range, okay. In the old days. When Kathy was a child yeah, well, okay, well, I don't know if it's that far back, is it?
Speaker 3:yeah, it is anyways, we had these goofy things called cassettes, yeah, and we also had records and and also other cassettes. So the thing is, if you wanted to share your music with someone, you would say, oh, you know, I have a few songs I'd like to share. Or maybe you have a person that you're interested in and maybe you say, oh, I made you a mixtape which is it's almost like pouring out your soul in a way, depending on the context.
Speaker 2:It's like the notes you used to write in the classroom when you were in grade school. Absolutely. Do you like me Check?
Speaker 3:yes, check. No, or maybe my notes were more like do you think you could like me? There you go, but anyway. So you would get your cassette and you would cue up your record player and you would find the song and you would drop the needle on that song and start recording, and then that goes on to the cassette. And so you would either continue doing that with records or sometimes some people were very fortunate and had, you know, dual cassette players. Did you ever have one of those?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you could record songs off cassettes to other cassettes and you would just make a playlist, like I said previously, from the music you had access to and then you'd make that playlist for whoever it was, and then write down all the songs on the paper insert that came with every cassette and you'd write down all the songs and then, if you were really maybe taken with the individual you were giving the tape to, you might cut some kind of uh picture out of a magazine or draw something on there and call it a something mix. Right, yeah, it was like you always call it the something mix. So it'd be like the walking on a rainy day mix and you know you'd have your songs like that, either just a collection to share with a friend or one's, professing your deep love, your deep junior high school love of a number of mixed tapes I I received a number did you, I bet you did, I did, I never.
Speaker 2:I never gifted any, though oh, I see.
Speaker 3:So every tape you got was like, yeah, this is nice, but no, I'm not making one for you I I never gifted one, no. Yeah, well, that's kind of, you know, that's kind of interesting. It's not too late.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's because I have trouble making decisions, so I could never decide what songs I want to put on.
Speaker 3:Well, that's an excellent point. You know, maybe you had too much access to music.
Speaker 1:You know you weren't one of those people who had like okay, I've got 10 records.
Speaker 3:10 records and four tapes. How do I make this work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember actually and I'm certainly never going to mention names, but I remember actually recording over some of the mixtapes that I didn't like. Okay, that's a story for another day.
Speaker 3:I can imagine Maybe next time, if I come on, we'll talk about the mixtapes in my life and why they caused me grief.
Speaker 2:There we go. That might make a good session. So knowing now what a mixtape, is okay, and it's a series of songs that mean something to you, that you might share with someone.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I think I mentioned this to you before. But here's my challenge to you how many songs are on a mixtape approximately?
Speaker 3:well, okay, so it really depends, because back in the day we could buy a 60 minute cassette or a 90 minute cassette, right? So well, you know that, right, I guess, yeah, it was 60 or 90 or whatever. Yeah, so I would say you would probably get anywhere like a 60 minute. I'm thinking you'd probably, and it depends on the song, because if you're putting on like roundabout by, yes, that's like one side of a tape, maybe, I don't know fair enough, but I would say, a good number is probably between uh, depending on the cassette length, I think you'd probably be talking about 12 to 20 songs okay, if we took the number 12 okay, I like.
Speaker 3:That's what my show is about too. 12 songs, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, you did say that okay, 12 songs related to grief, but the challenge is to have it start with the music that will evoke tears okay, so tear music, yep okay and then have it progress, almost like an ombre color. You know how color will go in tie-dye. You see it especially. It'll go from, say, a deep, deep navy blue and then it gradually changes shades until it's a pale, pale pastel type blue. All right, have it go, an ombre effect to the 12th song being one that gives you hope or gives you the empowerment to continue on.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you're saying that Does that make sense? Yeah, you could almost find specific things related to grief patterns or grief cycle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the one that comes to mind is the fight song.
Speaker 2:This is my fight song, or even take me to church, something like that, I don't know, but things like that, they would certainly change from tone of music key, everything pacing all the way up. But my thought is that as we progress in our grief, our periods of deep, deep sadness do lessen. Decades of deep, deep sadness, yes, do lessen. So at some point on a grief journey it might be nice that if you all of a sudden have that day that you wake up and, oh my gosh, the memories are just heavy, that feeling has just come back, that you could put this playlist, mixtape, whatever you could put this on, and it would help draw you out of that sadness.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And give you a little bit more optimism to go forward into your day. That's my thought. I think that is a marketable item.
Speaker 3:What are we discussing? A business plan here, openly on your podcast.
Speaker 2:We could be. We could be, but I wonder if something like that would be effective.
Speaker 3:I think, yes, it would be. But here's the kind of thing I might find it might be a little challenging in that I'm actually reading an interesting book right now called this Is what Music, or this Is what it Sounds Like, and it's by this woman, susan Rogers, who was a producer of records and things like that, and I'm realizing realizing I'm reading her book that because and as we said this before, music is so personal, I might create a playlist at you and I think it's oh, this is fantastic, da-da-da-da-da, and then another person might say, oh, what a horrible tune for me you know.
Speaker 3:So that would be I think the challenge and they were she was talking in her book about, like the, the triple crown in music is having the respect of critics, having the respect of other musicians and also having the appeal to the public. And she said very few artists can hit the triple crown right Because there are some that are fantastic with the public but other musicians wouldn't really respect them right. Or there's ones that are maybe musicians like or what have you in the public song, but the critics will say this is really not that great an album.
Speaker 2:And so you have. What do critics know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what. There you go. I didn't put them in uh. I didn't list them in uh order of hierarchy for critics.
Speaker 2:Everybody hates them right you, you want the listeners first, because they're the ones that are going to pay them, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:but then again, you know, it's kind of like when you think about it, there's also the side of you know, when you say that, oh, uh, you want the listeners, a lot of musicians would say yeah, but by doing that I'm giving up my creativity, right? So I have to put out something that people would love to, let's say, consume for no other better for lack of a better word but maybe don't honor their integrity, right? So it's really, it's more complicated than I realized from reading this book.
Speaker 2:Well, it is it is, and any type of creativity is that way. Writing a book is the same way. Who are you writing for? Who's your audience? Podcasting is that way when you think about it, who's your audience? And you just do what you feel is right and go on with it until it proves otherwise. Fortunately, there's no money writing on this podcast, so this is really, truly, my gift to everyone.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a lovely gift.
Speaker 2:And that's why I don't have ads. I don't want it interrupted because I think grief is a topic where you shouldn't have paid ads sponsored ads in there. And who's going to advertise Funeral homes?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't like listening to those ads on the TV. That's just me personally.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I could go off on a tangent for that one. Yeah, that's right. Lots of advertisers like Funeral Homes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kathy, put the soapbox away, at any rate, I think. For me personally, it would be interesting to have that playlist.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or even have it as this is what is resonating for me, or this is the way I see it. And then someone inevitably is going to say oh well, that's an interesting idea, but I think I'd personalize it to me by maybe keeping some of these, but I would add this in here, or add that in there, right?
Speaker 2:Well then, maybe the business becomes creating a personalized mixtape. Yeah, that's a service you could sell. I'm trying to give you some business idea. I know I like it.
Speaker 3:I just, I just didn't realize.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize I was going into a business, I didn't either I didn't either, but see, that's what we talked about the podcast and how I don't use a script. Yeah, that's what organic solutions do?
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 2:I think it's anyway, at any rate, our time is winding down, so what I want to do at this point is turn the microphone over to you Okay. And just let you have the floor.
Speaker 3:Sure, if something I say triggers your curiosity, feel free to jump in, because, as you said previously, sometimes when you're just talking on your own, you're kind of like when you start to have to focus on listening just to yourself, it becomes a little bit like I don't know why anyone would want to listen to me in the first place.
Speaker 2:I hear you yes.
Speaker 3:All right, so just a little bit. I'll talk a little bit about my podcast. The podcast, as I said, is on Spotify and the title of the podcast is called Scratch Made a Mixtape and it's just basically an exploration of an appreciation of having music in physical forms and how that experience now is starting. You know it's having resurgence, but it's about the fact that you go and you take an album out of your collection and you slide it out of the album cover, the jacket, and there's liner notes and there's lyrics, and so, as you are having this experience of listening to this song or this album, you get taken up with the other elements that are there, like the album art, or with the liner notes, and you find out about the band and you know those kind of things, and I think that's so much more. It's a fuller experience than just going through screening, going through a screen up and down or whatever, and then point putting your finger on a song and instantly it's there.
Speaker 3:And I had an interesting conversation with a friend recently and her daughter has started to get into vinyl records and they have a turntable at their house and she's kind of like, well, how do I skip to the next song.
Speaker 3:And no, you don't.
Speaker 3:You just you go and you hear what's there and you listen to it in a order that was very deliberate. And so the whole point of that the podcast is to appreciate music in physical forms whether it's cassette, record, compact disc but also going through what you have and touching on what's inside you to be to honor the theme that might be of that mixtape. So one of the tapes I did was about my mother and I and the music we listened to and the music she listened to in her youth, because she grew up as a young Japanese woman during the Second World War. So she has some interesting stories during war and post-war and just some of the music that she enjoyed from that particular era as well, and so it's just really a celebration of a older media format so that people of this day and age kind of know what was involved in making a playlist. It's kind of like teaching someone how to make bread right, the process of it, yeah, and then you just don't go to the store and say, oh, this one has sesame seeds.
Speaker 3:You go oh the whole thing was a process right, and by going into the process a process like that one or making a mixtape it also reflects a little bit on who you are and what your motives might be, or whatever else you know emotionally goes into that, while you kind of curate and try and find just that right piece to put in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and a personal story I have to inject. Nate older grandson is in college and he's majoring in music audio production theory.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's the actual, but anyway, a lot of his projects, if you will, for his music classes, are that the professor will give them a song give each student a song and it is their job to recreate it, which means they have to find the instrumentalists, the vocalists and everything and they have to record those tracks and then they have to mix those tracks and come out with a reproduction. Well, that's one thing, and most times, you know, they get a song that they know or something like that. There was one project last semester, last semester, last year I don't know he's in his final year At any rate, he came home and said he had a project, and I always thrive as soon as he tells us about a project.
Speaker 2:I just love hearing about it. And he was given. He said his professor came to him he had different songs on index cards and he was just passing them out to students and he got to Nate, who's been on the Dean's list, of course. He got to Nate and he stopped and he started shuffling through his cards and then he stopped and he handed Nate a card and it was the song by the Beatles. It appeared on the Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album and it was being for the benefit of Mr Kite. I had never heard of this song, even though I grew up in the Beatles era.
Speaker 2:I had never heard this song, so I went to my best friend, google, who sent me to his best friend, wikipedia, and learned of the background of this song and what you hear in the recording that you think is an organ is actually a calliope.
Speaker 2:Now, I what is a calliope? Well, it's usually you heard them in the circus. It's like the organ that you hear, like during circus parades. It's a type of organ, but it has a very particular sound. Right, and I remember going to nate and I how the hell are you going to get a calliope, you know? So he wound up researching, but I went because I was so fascinated with the song and even the background.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because at one point John Lennon took pieces of it and just tore it in scraps and threw it on the floor and reassembled it yeah. It was such a fascinating background to this song that I put it on a piece of paper and laminated it and gave it to Nate.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I said here's the song you're doing, and he read it and he became fascinated with the background and he later said to me that knowing the background to that song made all the difference in the world to him. Well, he wound up doing the project successfully. He didn't find a calliope, but he kind of replicated the sound on a keyboard right and on most of his projects he does lead guitar, rhythm guitar, drums and he gets a friend of his, a gal, to come in.
Speaker 2:That's the vocalist in his band actually, and she comes in and does the vocals, and now he's starting to even do keyboard, and then you put it all together and you get. You got a great great but.
Speaker 2:I guess all of that I'm I'm telling everyone is because if you got a great grade but I guess all of that I'm telling everyone is because if you have a song that really resonates with you, I encourage you to look on Google and look up the background of that song, understand why that artist chose the lyrics they did, the tune they did, maybe even the key they did or the instrument they played when they did it. It will make that song, it will make you own that song a lot more and it will resonate with you even deeper. That was my point of the whole story, but we all know I love talking about my grandkids.
Speaker 3:Well, yes, you should.
Speaker 2:So, and you will at some point as well, one day, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know I wasn't ready either, but looking back, of course I was, you're always ready.
Speaker 3:Okay, fair enough, but I don't think I want to be one tomorrow.
Speaker 2:No, no, you don't have to be. Generally it takes nine minutes, though, so you do have a little bit of time.
Speaker 3:I'd like that, but not tomorrow.
Speaker 2:So, at any rate, it's come time to say farewell to our listeners today. Wherever in the world you are and I know you're all over the place I truly thank you for tuning in and listening. Remember self-care, and self-care can be so simple as playing that song that really resonates with you and make you feel the feelings, because don't hold them in, they'll come out eventually. So choose when to come out Sit on the couch, grab a glass of wine or a cup of tea whatever your choice is and close your eyes, listen to the music and feel all the feels and, by all means, tune in again next week as we all continue to live and grieve. Thanks a lot, ken. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at asiliveandgrievecom and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live and grieve together.