T-A-P-E-R Your Grief

Claire Schwartz returns to our podcast with a groundbreaking framework for understanding grief recovery - the TAPER technique. For many grieving people, the question "How do I know if I'm getting better?" becomes a haunting refrain as days blur together in what feels like endless pain.

Drawing from her 18 years of grief counseling experience, Claire unpacks each element of her systematic approach. What makes this conversation particularly powerful is how Claire addresses the misconception that grief healing follows a predictable timeline. She compassionately explains that while grief never completely disappears, its intensity does gradually taper - hence the technique's name. 

The TAPER framework applies beyond death-related grief to any significant loss - divorce, job changes, empty nest transitions, or natural disasters - making this episode relevant for anyone navigating major life changes. Whether you're in the raw early stages of grief or years into your journey but feeling stuck, this episode offers both validation and practical guidance. 

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube:  asiliveandgrieve
TikTok: @asiliveandgrieve

To Reach Claire:
Email:  miriamswellhealing@gmail.com
Website:  https://www.youcanhealyourgrief.com

 
Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve

The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Speaker 2 0:27

Hi everyone. Welcome back again to another episode of as I Live and Grieve. I have another comeback guest today. I love it when we do that, when we have them back a second, third and occasionally a fourth time. With me today is Claire Schwartz. Last time and it was a while ago, admittedly Claire and I talked about grief in the workplace. Today we're going to focus on a kind of a different perspective on grief, and that's more to the point, although you know we're going to wander, because that's what conversation does. But our topic for the day is about how really can you tell that you're doing better in your grief Some days and we all know that it's just same same, same, same, same same same. So how can you maybe make an assessment on how you're doing? Claire, welcome back again and thanks again for taking the time.

Speaker 3 1:16

Thank you so much for having me back, kathy, always a pleasure.

Speaker 2 1:19

Oh, thanks, we always connect and we always have many, many things to talk about.

Speaker 3 1:29

We do, indeed, I'm well, just a bit about myself. I'm the owner and founder of Miriam's Well Healing and you can heal your grief. I've been in private practice for around 18 years now and it is my passion to help folks demystify and destigmatize the grief healing process, and it's something that, as I've worked with clients over the years, I just it kept jumping out at me that people don't know what the healing process looks like, what they should be getting, how they should be feeling. You know I need to use the word should kind of quantifiably, but if you've been pursuing a healing journey for a while and nothing's happening, then there's a question why? What do we need in that process to actually get better?

Speaker 3 2:17

What are the moving pieces that will create that? So I just think it's such an important topic because there's so many. You don't really know what the grief process looks like until you're down in it, and you can have anticipatory grief beforehand or you can think you are quote unquote prepared, but until you're really in it it's a whole different puppy, and so we want to address I've created a system to help people navigate that so that they know what should they expect from a process that's actually going to move them forward. These are the things that I work on supporting my clients with and the things that I found really work in terms of that process of am I better than I was six months ago, or even six weeks ago? What are those moving pieces? So that's what I wanted to talk about.

Speaker 2 3:09

Well, and the fact that you have come up with this process intrigues me a great deal, because we all know that grief is different for everyone, much like the common cold can be different for everyone. We think it's going to have maybe a five-day longevity and then, before you know it, three weeks later, we're still coughing and clearing our throats and blurring our noses, but maybe the weather has changed. There's so many other factors that go into it, so does your process have a name?

Speaker 3 3:36

Yes, indeed, I have called it the taper technique and that taper T-A-P-E-R and hopefully to taper down the intensity and the suffering. But taper stands for five different elements that I find really need to be in place to help folks proceed forward and so they feel better, which doesn't feel doable at the beginning. I'm never going to feel any better, I'm just. I'm broken forever. But it's not necessarily the case.

Speaker 2 4:13

Yeah, and I'm going to lean on that word intensity, because that often is what really really wears people down, is that intensity doesn't seem to dissipate at all. So I'm actually going to turn the microphone in the floor over to you and let you walk us through your tape.

Speaker 3 4:30

Okie dokie, I shall do that. I will add at the beginning of that long explain. I am indeed getting over the flu, so if I hack, sniffle, snort and wheeze, please forgive me ahead of time. I will try my best. I have my favorite tea helping me out, so I might need to tea, but ironically, taper starts with tea, so we've got to. Yeah, okay, that was a terrible joke. Anyway, I've been sick.

Speaker 2 4:57

Oh, great cycle, it was perfect, very well, Very well.

Speaker 3 5:01

And here we go. So tea, yes, I think one of the first things that I ask folks when someone comes to me and says, yeah, I've been, I went through this program or I've been going to this counselor and I've been doing it for a while and I'm just not sure if it's helping, and that's why they seek me out and I say, oh well, how long have you been doing that? Oh, a year, two years, five years, sometimes, before they notice wait, a minute, I'm not better. And I said, oh, so one of the first things I ask, and that's why I start between meetings that can actually become the building blocks for the healing process, like homework.

Tools for Healing: The "T" Element

Speaker 3 5:52

Well, yeah, some people are averse to that particular phrase, but yeah, you can't just talk at it for 45 minutes or an hour or two hours every week and then just ignore it for the rest of the time and expect anything to change. There are active things and that's designed on a case-by-case basis. It really has to be. You know, I take a really deep dive when I work with my clients. What have they tried, what haven't they tried, what are they willing to try and what are they absolutely to go? Oh, no, no, no, no, that doesn't work for me. Okay, well then we're not going to try it because you're not going to do it anyway.

Accountability in the Healing Journey

Speaker 3 6:29

So it has to be things that resonate, things that you look forward to, things that actually work. How do you use the tools effectively? So what if I start using them and then I sort of trail off, I get busy, I forget, I set them aside and I'm back to where I started before? So the next step that is super, super important and this is important with any learning process is accountability. This is the A in my taper system is that having regular appointments and check-ins is central to your comfort as well as your progress. Some folks are able to self-direct when learning a skill, but healing from grief and trauma can be so daunting and so emotional. It's really easy for folks to shrink back from it and go. I don't know about that. That's, this is hard, this is painful, I don't know. Hold on. Having a guide, a supportive, compassionate guide, is often the one thing that can make the difference between really having some relief or staying stuck in your suffering. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 7:46

Yes, it does, and I love the word accountability.

Speaker 3 7:50

Yeah, I mean, we're accountable to ourselves, to our healing future, and we're also accountable to the folks around us who often are noticing. Are you okay? I'm not sure you're okay. Do you still need some help?

Speaker 3 8:04

You know, it's often apparent that someone is stuck, but folks don't know what to do. So then we start that process and we commit to some regularity and then we hit a snag, we hit a wall. Sometimes things get super hard and we have to be able to work through that in a way that makes sense for allowing that flexibility. Right, people need permission to run into those stumbling blocks. So you need to and not only to get stuck, you need permission to get stuck. You also need permission to move forward, because sometimes there's a lot of guilt through this. So I give you permission to feel deeply and truly every emotion that you have, and that can be some messy stuff. It's guilt, it's anger, it's resentment, all of those things that we're told not to feel. Well, you have to allow the entire palette onto the playing field. Otherwise, you have to allow the entire palette onto the plain view, otherwise you're putting in your own stumbling blocks, right? So and it's also, people feel like they don't want to move forward without someone that they've lost, who's dear to them.

Permission to Feel All Emotions

Speaker 3 9:17

So giving you permission to move forward without to move your life ahead doesn't mean that you love them any less or that you're leaving them behind. It's giving you permission to, the permission of all the feels. I feel so strongly about that because we tell people not to have those messy feelings. I know you and I've talked about that. Don't speak ill of those who've passed, don't speak ill of the dead, oh well. But it's often extremely messy, extremely complex. People leave a messy legacy. There might be some stuff that you're mad at them about. You're not just mad at them for leaving. You're mad about that fight that you had that you never healed up. You're mad about when they wouldn't let you do this and such and any sort of conflict or worse. Sometimes it's someone who had some really good sides and some really terrible sides.

Speaker 2 10:12

Well, and a very common one can be that they didn't prepare for their death. Maybe no ideas about what bills were paid every month or who they were paid to, you know.

Speaker 3 10:25

So there can be anger around some of the most menial things, exactly exactly that sidebar of people who leave a mess, not only financially but physically. They don't deal with their stuff, they don't address who's going to get what, and even any. Sometimes, even if they do, there's all sorts of conflicts about that. These things can get. I just spoke to a client about this yesterday. One sibling handled the will and had power of attorney and did all the things, and the other siblings were cut completely out of the process. Now, that was partially because the parent requested that. Well, that makes it even harder.

Speaker 2 11:06

Yeah, well, sure that can have a huge impact on your grief, yeah.

Speaker 3 11:10

Yeah. So permissions are important, Permissions are hugely important and I think all of those stigmas of what we're supposed to feel just get in the way dealing truthfully and honestly with everything that's going on.

Speaker 2 11:28

Absolutely, I agree.

Evidence of Progress in Healing

Speaker 3 11:29

So when you start the feeling and you allow to feel all the things, so what then builds the actual movement forward? And I find this super, super, super important. The E in my taper technique is for evidence, Evidence that even though the myths and pressures of our culture have taught you that the healing is not doable, it's not only not true, but that that perspective is completely lacking in kindness or compassion. When you actually walk the path, you do feel your heart. Once you work the process for a while, or even the first time you tell your story, you can feel that immediate relief. The more you apply yourself and the more you commit to the process, the easier it gets right.

Speaker 3 12:22

And it's believe the evidence that your healing process is showing right and also, the more you do it, the better you get at it. So it's a muscle that you have to learn how to work. It's just like when you're learning an instrument or trying out a recipe or any subject in school. When you start, of course you don't know what that looks like or how to do it Right, and people get so well, I don't know how to do that, of course you don't. That's okay, but it's learnable. It's absolutely doable and just like an instrument or a recipe, once you start to get the skill, then you can stretch and learn what's possible beyond that, because every loss is going to be different. Believe the evidence that it's that you are truly better. Oh, oh, I feel lighter. Oh, that's so good. I didn't think that was possible. I can I do that again?

Speaker 2 13:23

yes, yeah, yeah, let's do that one again exactly so.

Speaker 3 13:27

It can be a long process, and that's okay. So how do I keep going? And so the last step that I find that folks really appreciate is the R is reassurance. It's that final, crucial piece of having someone come with doubts and fears and a million questions. That's okay and you can feel like you're going crazy, but you're not. It's okay, you're going to be okay. You are okay to receive validation and support. Be reassured that, even if you are stuck, even if it's messy, you are still okay and that you're not wrong for feeling what you feel. You're not wrong for having questions, and it's okay that this takes time.

Reassurance: You're Going to Be Okay

Speaker 3 14:14

And no, we don't know how long it'll take, and that's okay too. It's not about the time, it's about going until you suddenly realize one day that it's not occupying every thought and word in your daily process, it's not haunting you on the regular. It's okay that it lessens. It's okay to move your life forward. And time is another thing that you and I talk about a lot. It is that time gets incredibly wonky when you're dealing with a loss.

Speaker 3 14:48

And just a few weeks ago I had a loss in my family and had a close family member say to me it feels like it just happened, but when did that happen? It's a few weeks already. It is Okay, and sometimes it's a few months and sometimes it's a few years, and so your perception of time is going to get very strange, and that is okay too. There is nothing crazy about this process. It is the most human of experiences, not easy, but that's okay too. It's okay that it's not easy. It's not supposed to be, but it is one of the most important journeys that we take because more stuff is going to happen. This set of tools that you start with as your template, you can craft that moving forward for lots of different losses that are, as you build, some resilience to the slings and arrows that life is going to give.

Speaker 2 15:47

So yeah but I think and you know this is go ahead. Well, I was going to say this is especially applicable to any loss in your life, and I know our primary focus is talking about losing someone through death. But if you have or are going through divorce, or maybe you've lost your job, maybe you've been laid off, maybe you've retired, maybe you've given up your job, you're still going to go through a grieving process on many of these occasions. And this taper method, all of these words, all of these practices, will help. Well, I remember I used the word redefine.

Speaker 2 16:27

I remember after Tom died, probably a couple weeks later, I talked to my daughter, stephanie, and I said I feel like I have to redefine myself Because over the eight months of caring for him, I literally gave up everything in my life. That was my life. I gave up my daily routine, my weekly routine. I gave up my you know go out to coffee once a month with a friend. I gave that all up because there were things I needed to do to help him. So I had to redefine myself.

Applying TAPER to Different Losses

Speaker 2 16:58

And I could have used each one of these, because they're not concrete, physical steps like make a list of everything you liked about your person. They're not things like that. These are things to help change you, to help you adapt, to help you redefine yourself. That, I think, is what's so critical about these items, and these are things you always need in life, exactly Always. They'll help you through any change in your life.

Speaker 3 17:30

Any major life change can have a grief aspect to it. It can be I'm thinking of, my goodness, the folks out in Los Angeles who've lost their homes- Absolutely, they've lost their root, their history, their, you know, not to mention their patterns. Very often their workplace was also destroyed. I mean the amount of healing that they have to go through and scramble to figure out. Just massive Right, incomprehensible. Yes, right, it's just massive, sure sure?

Speaker 2 18:03

And what about the very common phrase that parents go through Empty nests? Yay, that's grief. That's grief, you're no longer the parents of a little toddler running around the house. You are now the parents of an adult.

Speaker 3 18:17

Yes.

Speaker 2 18:18

They've gone off to college, they've gotten married and gone off on their own. They don't live with you anymore.

Speaker 3 18:23

Right.

Speaker 2 18:23

And I say that as today is my older grandson's 21st birthday, oh my goodness. He's still living at home, yet there's still a piece of grief attached to that.

Speaker 3 18:33

Sure.

Speaker 2 18:33

You no longer have a child.

Speaker 3 18:35

That's right.

Speaker 2 18:36

Now you have an adult in your life, yeah, and yet this taper method works if you follow it.

Speaker 3 18:42

That's the idea.

Speaker 2 18:43

Now it is important, I will say, to have someone guide you through this process.

Speaker 3 18:48

Yes.

Speaker 2 18:49

I think there are very few people that could really get through this on their own, whether they're self-motivated or not. I think they need the support. I think they need the reassurance, the evidence, the permission, the accountability and the tools of someone to help them through it. I really like this process. Now we talk about time.

Speaker 3 19:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:10

Is there kind of a general rule Are you talking six months to hit all of these areas initially, I'm not saying to work on them fully, but to really kind of go through them and at least become aware that these are the components.

Speaker 3 19:22

I think it's so individually driven. It depends so much on the nature of the relationship to the person who's passed. Obviously, if we're talking about a spouse, a child, a sibling, those are extremely deep and complex, long-standing relationships. But it makes a difference whether it's a. You know, I have one client who was a caregiver to her mother for two and a half years and she just passed and she's still sort of in shock and trying to rebuild. I have another client who just texted me the other day yeah, I just found out my father died and there's a complete disconnect because they've been estranged and there's. So there's other different, complicated things there.

Speaker 3 20:11

Yeah, yeah so it's it really, and we've talked about that. When this happens, we've talked around it for a long time, but now it's here, so now we're working on navigating that. So it's. And sometimes the process happens in fits and starts right when you're trying to get at something and get a roadblock to moon for a while and you try this piece and you try that piece and then you back off a little while and work on something else and then you come back to that piece and then all of a sudden on a session suddenly they'll say hey, it moved, oh, I get it. Oh, wow, I totally get that now.

Speaker 2 20:48

So yeah, do you use some type of graphic image with your clients to help them know where in the process they are, or maybe that they've been able to check one off the list, so to speak?

Speaker 3 21:01

I use a lot of journaling through my clients. For those that that resonates, I'm always careful that the stages sort of bleed into each other a lot Okay, all right, fair enough. But I have had people bring art to the process in terms of them creating something that shows where they are in the process, and that's always interesting. All right, I'll bet that is. I'll bet that the process and that's always interesting.

Speaker 2 21:24

All right, I bet that is. I bet that is interesting and then you compare it to where you think they are. Do you ever help them with that comparison? I know this is where you think you are, but this is where I think you are.

Speaker 3 21:37

If someone feels like they're making progress, you really always want to encourage that and you don't want to undercut it by saying, yeah, but there's still this other thing we need to work on, because you really want to celebrate the wins, because the wins are big.

Speaker 2 21:52

Yeah, well, that makes perfect sense. And we talked and I kind of inserted the word homework, which sometimes immediately causes people to go yeah, homework, but can you give us an example? Now? You mentioned journaling, so might an assignment, if you will some before your next appointment. I want you to try to do this, does it? If not journaling, what other type of exercises might you ask people?

Speaker 3 22:16

There's so many possibilities there. Journaling is not as rigid as folks think. It's not just. Here's what I had for breakfast and here's what my thoughts are today.

Self-Care Methods and Final Thoughts

Speaker 3 22:28

It's usually something organic that comes up during the conversation of a session. I think there's an opportunity here for you to write in more detail about that. For the folks for whom writing resonates and so a lot of folks you know this dovetails into the other piece of my practice, which is, of course, related, which is the grief and trauma. There's grief in every trauma and there can be trauma in every grief, so those are often really deeply linked.

Speaker 3 22:56

So a lot of folks do a lot of body work. They say movement is medicine, so I often encourage folks to move. People get stuck on their self-care and so helping folks build back into making sure that the basics of their health are in place, and so that's another piece. There are other folks who are experts in yoga, art, music, all of those things. It really depends on what resonates with the individual. I don't tend to do yoga during a session because me doing yoga would be frightening, but certainly folks do use that. So if that resonates with people, there certainly are more avenues to do that Right?

Speaker 2 23:45

Yeah, just a funny story about yoga. You kind of laughed about it yourself, but I remember my daughter, stephanie, going to a yoga session and I guess at the end and I've only gone to a couple of yoga sessions and it's been a long time ago, when my body was a little more flexible but someone asked her you know, why are you here today? And she said I am solely here for that last five minutes of class where you just lie flat on your back and breathe. She says that's the only reason I'm here. I just needed five minutes to myself to breathe. So yoga can help you with a lot of things. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 24:22

I use a lot of guided meditation for folks who need that. Some folks rush right into their session from work. They run in from the car or they just finished their last two and they're still in work mode. And okay, how about we breathe for a little bit? Can we just do a little breathing? Can we call? Can we ground? Can we get back into your body? Can we get into the moment and just be so that they can ease into the next phase? Because if we're scattered and ungrounded, then we're not really in alignment, we're not paying attention, we're not aware, we're just going. So I always want to bring folks back to that present moment of awareness so that you're plugged into the now, not worried about that spreadsheet that you didn't finish or what's for dinner. It's hold on a second. We've got an hour. It's just be. Let's do a little breathing. Talk about our tools. Get you some accountability, give you permission to feel what you're feeling, build some new evidence screen today and reassure you that you are okay.

Speaker 2 25:27

Oh boy, that was well said and that was a great summary. As our time has wound down that I need to start the wrap-up process. So the first step in my wrap-up process for every podcast episode is to turn the floor over to you and let you tell people what you offer as services, as resources, and how and where they can find you. Just a side note the information will also be in the podcast notes, so I don't want our listeners to feel they have to run to grab a pen or pencil right now. They can just refer to the podcast notes. So the microphone is yours, claire.

Speaker 3 26:03

That's if people actually have pencils. So I can be found online at youcanhealyourdwreathcom. There's also my scheduling system. My blog is being upgraded at the moment, so that's not on the site, but there are all sorts of social media posts and you can get a pretty good idea of who I am.

Speaker 2 26:24

Sounds great. Thank you so much, Claire. I do hope you feel better as you go along.

Speaker 2 26:30

You have to take care of yourself, and we always kind of wind things up and wrap things up on the podcast by reminding our listeners to practice self-care. Self-care can be as simple as surrounding yourself with the right people. Care. Self-care can be as simple as surrounding yourself with the right people. It can be so simple as realizing that maybe you just need a little bit of help and guidance with your grief. It might not hurt.

Speaker 2 26:51

I will say that when Claire was talking about her book and all the things that happen in that first week or that initial phase after you lose someone. The word that comes to my mind every time I think of that period of time, the word is ugly. And yes, you lose someone, the word that comes to my mind every time I think of that period of time the word is ugly. And yes, you need guidance, and starting with your book is a great place to start. Perhaps you may decide at some point that you need additional guidance, and that is also out there. I have resources. Claire is a great, great resource and a great coach, so to speak, to have to guide you along that process, and I know she has many clients that would give recommendations and referrals for that as well. So, sad to say, listeners, it's time to leave again, and I can't say much else except take care of yourselves, okay, and come on back again next time, as we all continue to live and grieve.

Speaker 1 27:45

Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at as I live and grievecom, and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live and grieve together.