Playback Theater - For Caregivers

Kathy welcomes Erin Whalen, founder of Compassionate Coaching, for a fascinating exploration of how innovative approaches to storytelling and communication can transform the caregiving experience. Drawing from her background in professional acting, Erin reveals how Playback Theater—a unique art form where actors immediately perform the personal stories shared by audience members—creates powerful moments of catharsis and perspective for those navigating grief.

"We play back not just for the sake of playing it back. It's really a way to get to the heart of the story," Erin explains, describing how this approach helps people process complex emotions by witnessing their experiences from new angles. The conversation delves into how these performances can become touchstones in a griever's journey, with moments that resonate years later.

Beyond theatrical approaches, the episode offers practical wisdom for anyone supporting those facing end-of-life situations. Erin shares insights from her work training healthcare professionals in communication skills, emphasizing the transformative power of silence when delivering difficult news. "I am the biggest fan in the world of exceedingly long pauses," she reveals, challenging listeners to resist the urge to fill uncomfortable silences and instead create space for authentic processing.

The conversation touches on anticipatory grief—the grief experienced before a death occurs—and how caregivers often struggle with these complex emotions while still providing care. Erin's forthcoming book on this topic promises to shed light on an under-discussed aspect of the caregiving journey. Whether you're a professional caregiver, supporting a loved one through illness, or simply want to better understand how to show up for those who grieve, this episode offers both practical communication strategies and innovative approaches to processing the complex emotions that accompany loss.

Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook:  As I Live and Grieve
Instagram:  @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube:  asiliveandgrieve
TikTok: @asiliveandgrieve

To Contact Erin:
Website: Compassionate Coaching
Instagram: Erin Whalen (@erin_compassionatecoaching)
LinkedIn: LinkedIn

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve

The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Introducing Erin and Compassionate Coaching

Speaker 2 0:27

Hi everyone. Welcome back again to another episode of as I Live and Grieve. I really appreciate that you, every single one of you around the world, reach out and listen, week after week. I can't tell you how important it is to me and how much you actually help me, and you may not think that you do how could I possibly help her? But you do. You have helped me heal over the last four plus years and for that I'm eternally grateful. Today we're going to talk about caregivers and caregiving. With me today is Erin Whalen. Erin, thanks for joining me.

Speaker 3 1:00

Thank you so much for having me, Kathy. I'm really glad to be here.

Speaker 2 1:03

Absolutely. Caregivers, and caregiving is a topic that we don't often talk about, because when we talk about grief, the event is usually over. But I know there are a number of you out there that in your day-to-day lives are caregivers either paid. But I know there's a core of you and I know you listen and I know every single one of you who are listening as we've talked. You are volunteer caregivers, most of you in a hospice home. That is a very, very special talent. It's a very special passion, so I'm dedicating this today to you. Erin, can you get us started by telling us a little bit about your background? Who is Erin?

Speaker 3 1:46

Thank you. I am well. I'm a wife and a mama. I have a company called Compassionate Coaching and we serve both professionals who work in the field of where grief is inherent in their work healthcare professionals, people who work in hospice. We also support grievers who are not professionals. As you mentioned, so many people are doing the unpaid, unacknowledged work of caregiving. So we support people who grieve and we use some really unique modalities to help people process their grief. And I come to this work through a background of acting. So I started as a freelance actor. I'm in the DC area and I've done that for many, many years and a couple modalities really stood out to me, a couple types of acting really stood out to me, and those are the types of acting forms that I've learned and that I've honed over the years that I now bring into my company of compassionate coaching.

Playback Theater: Acting Out Grief Stories

Speaker 2 2:47

That's wonderful, and we're going to talk about one of your unique methods. I read in your profile that, because of your acting career, you actually have a theater that is dedicated to reenacting scenes and stories from caregiving. Can you tell us about that? This is fast.

Speaker 3 3:06

Yeah, it's so much fun. The art form is called playback theater. I didn't invent it. It's been around 50 years. Actually, this year, 2025, is the 50 year anniversary of playback.

Speaker 3 3:17

It's done all over the world and I use it specifically to help people process grief, and I've been doing this art form since 2010. And what we do is we gather we might be doing this for a community event or for, maybe, a hospice the professionals who work there or you might be doing this just open to the public, based on a theme, and we invite people to share a story, one at a time, and it's a guided process. There's a facilitator who asks people questions, similar to how you're asking me questions, kathy. I don't have to come and just give everything. It's a conversation. So there's a conversation and then, after the conversation is had and person who has told the story has shared, and the person who on my team who facilitates that process, they might summarize it, and then, immediately after that, the team of actors and musicians who have been listening to the storytelling very deeply we immediately play back that story, hence the name Playback Theater.

Speaker 3 4:18

And we play back not just for the sake of playing it back. It's really a way to get to the heart of the story. Focus is never entertainment. It's really to honor someone's story. So when we think of improv, we might think of Saturday Night Live or going to a comedy club and seeing some improv. That's not what this is Improv in service of the person who just told the story. And so we play back that story, we check back in with the teller, see how they're doing, and then we move on to the next teller.

Speaker 2 4:51

Wow. So you do multiple stories in one event? We do Wow. Are these events done virtually or live.

Speaker 3 4:59

Well. That's one of the huge benefits that we found with the pandemic. We discovered we can actually do it very well online and it's not the same, I have to say, like an in-person event is just the best. And we discovered that, oh my gosh, now we can reach even more people because we can do this online and we can help people anywhere in the world.

Speaker 2 5:22

And do you have feedback from the original storytellers? What does this do for them?

Speaker 3 5:28

It's very and I can speak too because as someone who does this art form. The way we rehearse, you know, we don't have lines to practice, we don't have blocking to do, but we, what we do is we practice the art form by telling our own stories. So I have had the privilege of having my own stories played back dozens of times, and it's a couple different things. It's cathartic because not only are you telling your story, but then, as a group, you're able to have witnesses to your story. It deepens your perspective, because each person, each musician, each actor who's there has their own lived experience that they're bringing to their playing back, and so they might do something that, as the teller, you're like oh my gosh, I never thought of it that way, I never saw it from that perspective.

Speaker 3 6:18

And it's also the perspective of sometimes one of the actors plays the teller. Sometimes they play an inanimate object, Sometimes we play grief, sometimes they play an inanimate object, sometimes we play grief, sometimes we play a loved one. We can play anything or anyone, and so it really broadens the perspective and it really I think one of the beautiful things about playback is that you can have that initial response to having just seen it, but then it stays with you. Moments of that playing back stay with you. I can remember distinct things that were said or done from stories I shared in playback in 2010, and that's 15 years ago. So it is a very memorable experience that you can look back on and reflect and keep with you as you move through your grief journey Interesting.

Speaker 2 7:05

And what's the intention of playback theater? Why does it exist and why, especially in this niche area of grief?

Speaker 3 7:14

Yeah, those are great questions, kathy. So it was founded by a husband and wife. The wife is a musician and the husband is in psychodrama, and so I think that you know I can't speak to exactly what is psychodrama. Thank you, I'm so glad you asked and I may do a poor job explaining it.

Speaker 3 7:34

Psychodrama comes to an understanding of relationships and interactions through some interactive modalities. So psychodrama might be where you put on, and I've only dabbled the tiniest bit in psychodrama. So, please, I encourage your listeners to take everything I say with a grain of salt. You might you say you have a conflict with your spouse, like you may go into the role of your spouse and someone else may go into the role of you in a way to reach some sort of broader perspective and healing. Yeah, so my idea and I can't speak to exactly why the founders founded it, but it is a cathartic and unifying or connecting type of art form that helps people bond together, helps them, yeah, like reflect on their own life and their own stories, and it also just helps you to see a bigger perspective. We may not agree with everyone in the room, but we can see ourselves in their stories.

Speaker 2 8:39

So it's intended to provoke some thought. Yes, so that you're not just observing something. It's going to make you think about what you're exactly.

Speaker 3 8:50

That's very fair. That's beautiful. You can describe it better than I can. Thank you.

Speaker 2 8:59

I have seen certain things on stage that really have moved me, and I've seen other things, and I think two things actually that I remember that were very memorable to me, that made me think years after I saw them. One was the vagina monologues, uh-huh. And the other was the Book of Mormon, because they both were deeper than just what you saw on stage. Yes, so that's what made me relate to it that way.

Speaker 3 9:27

Yes, yes, and that's really what playback does too. It really goal is to get to kind of the heart and sometimes, when people share a story, we might pick up on some nonverbal communication. We might pick up on something that they may not even be aware of as they're telling the story, and we may tap into that and reflect that back so that they can see it.

Speaker 2 9:51

Interesting, interesting. Now, do you do this primarily for organizations like hospice homes or hospitals or something like that? Have you ever done it for private individuals? Has anyone ever had a playback party?

Speaker 3 10:07

Yes, yes, they have. Yes, they have. So in just some bigger context. So I've been doing the art form since 2010. I founded my company in 2020. So I have 10 years of doing this in the non-grief space and I still do this for some other groups in the area, for some non-griefs. So, yeah, I've been part of I think it was a 70 or 75th birthday party. Someone hired Playback to do events. I've done Playback at a wedding reception. I've done Playback at a wedding reception. I've done playback at a family reunion. Wow, yeah, it's so much fun. It's so much fun.

Speaker 2 10:43

It sounds like it would be really interesting to be a part of the crew, part of the cast, and stop and think. If you are going right from the storytelling to the acting, it's a form of improv, but it's not the improv that we're used to hearing about. You're absolutely correct. Are there times when there's humor in the replay?

Speaker 3 11:06

in the playbill, absolutely, absolutely. That's never our goal. We never go in saying I'm going to go get a laugh, right, we've not, that's okay. But if you think about it's about people's lived experience, it's about our humanity. So our humanity encompasses everything. Our humanity encompasses sorrow. Our humanity encompasses joy. Our humanity encompasses silliness. There are absolute moments of levity that come out if it's in service of the teller, right, if it's in service of what they shared, and never for our own sake of trying to get a laugh.

Communication Skills for Difficult Conversations

Speaker 2 11:42

Yeah, this is fascinating. So let's kind of segue on to other aspects of supporting and coaching caregivers. What else are you a part of that helps support caregivers? Thank, you.

Speaker 3 11:56

Yeah, I also do communication skills coaching and we do this in a different way. I have a background in standardized patient work, which not a lot of people know that. In medical schools there are actors usually who go and they help future doctors communicate more effectively and compassionately. So I've been doing that work since 2006. I've done that type of work both at med schools and then for other training institutions or even for a medical group, where they're done with their training, they're full-fledged physicians and they want to focus on communication skills. So I've worked with everyone from first year med students to chiefs, and what we do is what I do in my company is I bring in my professional role players so that people can practice having conversations in that low stakes environment with an actor, and they're actors, but they're really role players because we make up the scenario on the spot of what someone wants to practice, right, and then the beauty is they can get feedback from that role player.

Speaker 3 13:01

So it's very rare for us to be moving through our lives and getting insight into how we come across to other people. We just don't. But this is the opportunity to do that and it's important. It's important in this work because so many of the conversations that people are having, who work in end of life, who work in health care so many of those conversations are, for the person receiving the information, a life changing moment and we want them to practice before they have those conversations with real patients, real family members, real loved ones. We want them to have those conversations and get that feedback, get that insight so that they can actually go and communicate more compassionately.

Speaker 2 13:43

Okay, and do you have like a kind of a set not really a script, but something to try to evoke the proper type of communication? Or do you just say to one of the people in your group that, all right, you're the lady with dementia and I'm saying that because I played a lady with dementia at a nursing home I worked at when they were having a day of trying to just learn some different things. It involved a drill. We were here, we had to evacuate the home and I was dealing with with different people, yeah, and it was a lot of fun. But so do you go in and you say, okay, you're a lady with dementia and this is how you're going to act? Do you kind of give them cards and say this is who you are, what you are and this is how you're supposed to act?

Speaker 3 14:29

today? That's a great question. It's not that way. When I do this work, it's usually with a small group of people who are learning, and one at a time. They work with the role player, and the learner will tell us exactly what they want to practice. So say, it's a hospice team and they're a social worker and they're like I want to practice when the daughter, her mom, is in hospice and the daughter's in total denial, that mom is in need of hospice, that mom is as bad off as she is, that her prognosis is what it is. So then I discuss it with the learner. My role player is sitting there and hearing all of it, and then the role player will be that person. They will be the daughter in denial. So that way it's exactly what they want to practice. And then we can assess, we can be like oh, the daughters I experience are even more aggressive or even more of this or even more, and then the role player can adjust. So it's really that cultivated scenario based on exactly what they want to work on.

Speaker 2 15:23

Okay, one of the topics that is discussed a lot in hospice homes, nursing homes and everything places I'm very familiar with. One of the topics that is discussed a lot in hospice homes, nursing homes and everything places I'm very familiar with is how to have those really difficult conversations with family. Especially most times, or many times and I have no statistics to base this on the person with the terminal illness eventually reaches a point where they're just ready to go. They're tired of fighting, they're tired of struggling and even if they're given pain meds, they still don't feel themselves and they realize many times or feel that they are a burden to their family. So that person is ready to go. The family, however, is not so ready to let go. Do you have any special methods or special ways that you can help people learn those conversations or maybe gear themselves up to be ready? It's almost like some preparedness for those events.

Speaker 2 16:31

Yeah.

Speaker 3 16:32

So I'm understanding some tips for the professional who's going to be having the conversation with the family member.

Speaker 2 16:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the caregiver, yes, who's kind of caught in the middle. Yeah, knowing that their patient is ready to go, but the family is not ready.

Speaker 3 16:47

Yeah, I do have some tips. I think, first and foremost, if we, you know and I talked earlier about the playback and the beauty of broadening our perspective we have to put ourselves in the shoes of that loved one and know that they're probably having a really hard time, and then it's really just a conversation about bad news, which we have some structure through the literature of healthcare providers. They've come up with ideas and protocols for how to deliver bad news.

The Art of Silence in End-of-Life Care

Speaker 3 17:16

Healthcare providers they've come up with ideas and protocols for how to deliver bad news, and one of the steps is to give what we call like a warning shot, of saying like we need to have a serious conversation. Ideally this is happening in person, ideally this is in person, and to say to give clear information and then I am the biggest fan in the world of exceedingly long pauses, so, and it could be something like we have to have a conversation about mom. Mom is in the final stages of the dying process and we know that, based on what we're seeing happening, she will not be alive much longer.

Speaker 3 17:58

Whatever that one sentence thing and then deep, long, excessively long, uncomfortable pauses.

Speaker 2 18:05

That's the tough part, because we all get so nervous. We want to fill that silence.

Speaker 3 18:10

Exactly right, kathy, you're exactly right. And I think, from the perspective of the loved one, if that information was delivered compassionately and clearly we don't want to give false hope right. But if that information was delivered clearly and succinctly enough we also don't want to beat around the bush then they're going to need time to process that, right. And how do we process it? Silence they need to sit in that uncomfortable time before they're ready to move on to a different part of the conversation. So that's where the silence is really key. That long pause and then let them take the lead, let them break the silence, and whatever they say next will kind of help you figure out where their headspace is, what emotions might be circling around. And they need that time. They need that time.

Speaker 2 19:00

That's a great technique. It really is. That's huge yeah To let them break the silence.

Speaker 3 19:08

You're so right, though. It's so uncomfortable to sit in that silence, and you want to fix it. You want to fix it.

Speaker 2 19:14

Yeah, yeah. And I suppose if you're a caregiver and I'm thinking again a hospice homes, and the ones in our area here are just two patient, they're two bedroom hospice homes because that way they don't have to be licensed by the state, they're just able to be private companies, private organization. And I suppose one of the good things to do to help you as a caregiver get through that silence is something like excuse me, I'm going to go check on your mom and leave the family by themselves. You think For just a moment?

Speaker 1 19:48

I don't know what do you think.

Speaker 2 19:50

Because it shows the family that your attention is to their mom. Yeah, it leaves them alone for a bit, and then I mean, certainly you have to come back. Yeah, it leaves them alone for a bit, and then I mean, certainly you have to come back. Yeah, but I wonder if that might help the caregiver deal with that silence and not get so nervous and feel that they just need to chatter.

Speaker 3 20:07

That's a great tool to have for later in the conversation. Okay, all right, because I wonder if I think it's honestly a matter of like getting comfortable with that uncomfortable silence, right? And I think, because from the perspective of the loved one, they may feel potentially abandoned, that's true, which is not the intention, right? The intention is like, let me give you some space, let me go check on your mom. That's what we're here for. We're here for mom. So I think it's really about getting comfortable with that uncomfortable and finding ways, because they're going to have emotions whether they're in or the loved ones that have emotions. And it's the same way when someone's grieving, a lot of the times it's like, oh, I don't want to bother them, oh, I don't want to, and it's like, no, we actually need to go in and like be with them. And so I wonder if that being with them for this type of situation is actually uncomfortable but important.

Speaker 2 21:09

Yeah, I think you're right. So in some ways the caregiver kind of becomes a role model to sit there in the silence, I think so I think so.

Speaker 3 21:19

And then, of course, you're thinking like, well, what next? And then it's they're going to be expressing emotions, whether it's verbally, non-verbally, and then it's just a matter of letting them first, letting them express the emotions, and then validating them Right and saying them right, yeah, and saying of course you're, of course you're sad, you love your mom so much. Yeah, and not over explaining it, but just these short, yeah, these short phrases or sentences to let them know that they've been heard. And then more pausing, right, yeah, yeah, of course you're mad. Of course you're mad. You thought you had more time or whatever. It is right, yeah.

Speaker 2 21:58

And let them know that whatever they're feeling is okay to feel.

Speaker 3 22:01

Totally normal yeah.

Speaker 2 22:03

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 22:04

Do you find that, kathy? Do you find that sometimes, in the world of grief, people feel that they're grieving wrong or that they shouldn't feel?

Speaker 2 22:14

that way. Oh, there's a lot of the shouldn't feel that way and some of that is brought on by well-intentioned friends and family who, two months down the road, will say haven't you moved on yet? You know, there's those questions that I know they're well-intended man. They hurt, they cut to the soul because grief is what it is and everybody's different. Yeah, but that brings up another question. If your cast members we're speaking specifically to grief and end of life storytelling and all of that If they haven't experienced grief themselves and acknowledged that that's what they're experiencing, how do they portray how it?

Speaker 3 22:56

feels. That's a beautiful question, Kathy. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before.

Speaker 2 23:03

You know, but we talk about a lot of times. You know, some of those well-intentioned questions come from people that have never experienced what you're going through.

Speaker 3 23:12

Yes.

Speaker 2 23:12

Those statements. In fact, a good friend of mine wrote a book stupid shit people say to grievers and it's an entire book filled with those lines I love that it might be a might be a good reference or resource. I'm totally writing that down, thank you. His name is john polo p-o-l-o. Thank you, stupid shit. People say to grievers um, you know they they'll come up and say, oh, they're in a better place now. No, they're not. Oh, my mind, better place right here, right here with me. You know it happens.

Speaker 1 23:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 23:47

So how do you cast deal with things like that? How do they know how to act?

Anticipatory Grief and Resources

Speaker 3 23:51

That's a beautiful question. That's a beautiful question. So a couple of things come to mind to answer that beautiful idea that you had in that question that you have. So one is that we work as an ensemble. So we know each other very well because, again, if we're rehearsing regularly, we're telling our own stories and we get to know each other. And so I know this person lost their mom a year ago. I know this person, their dad has dementia.

Speaker 3 24:15

I know these things about the people that I'm working with and we work as an ensemble, and so what that means is so, say, you tell a story about, maybe you tell a story about cause we were talking earlier about your husband and how you cared for him until you thought that it wasn't safe to do so. So you, maybe you tell that story. Well, one of us could be you, one of us could be your husband, one of us could be the feeling of guilt or relief or whatever, right, and so we're each picking just a little piece of that story and so we all kind of lean to our strengths and we all some of us are better with movement and some of us are better with words. No-transcript story. I need some help here. I need some help. What are you going to bring? What are you going to make? What are you going to? And so my cast members are able to think, oh, aaron wants help. Like I will step in and I will do this, or you know it could even be something where I forget.

Speaker 3 25:56

I forget what the teller said about something, and then there are ways to kind of clue each other. All right, yeah, so we work as that ensemble.

Speaker 2 26:02

It's just part of part of being a cohesive team, Cohesive team.

Speaker 3 26:06

Exactly, yeah, exactly. That's a beautiful question, though that's a really beautiful question.

Speaker 2 26:12

You know I would love to see you take this playback theater on the road. I really would, I think at a conference somewhere. Yes, and I have a couple ideas if you're curious at any time. Of course, I think this is such a great mechanism and for so many reasons, but you know, I'd love the opportunity to see it.

Speaker 2 26:36

I'm going to have to check now and see if there's any playback theater around that. I've seen a lot with something like that. Yeah, I think it would be great, and if you get that book that I told you about, it would be great if you would actually just film a segment and put it out there streaming somewhere for people to see it, almost like they do a TED Talk type thing. Yes, put it out there, because I know thousands and thousands of people that would would flock to see something like that. Yes, yes, just for that validation of yeah, that's a stupid thing to say.

Speaker 3 27:07

Yeah, oh, I love that theme. I love that because you know, each of our performances has some kind of theme or prompt. We're doing some in a couple of weeks for had some kind of theme or prompt. We're doing some in a couple weeks for um, in honor of mother's day and father's day, one for parents who have lost children, one for people who have lost their mom or their mother figure, um so as you can see, there's different themes but like I love the idea of like a show on, like like calling hours and it would be a great practice session.

Speaker 2 27:36

if nothing else, you guys would have a blast with that one.

Speaker 1 27:39

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 27:40

At any rate, time is winding down, erin, it always does. This has been such a fascinating conversation and I know that I'm going to be touching base with our local hospice homes and saying have you heard about this? Because I know each of them at some point in their training. They'll do a little role playing here and there, but I think this one, this playback concept, has so much more. I think it's just going to be so much more impactful that maybe they can all band together and do something or reach out to you or something. But I think it's such an incredible idea with so much, so much possibility. So this is the point in the podcast where I actually turn the microphone over to you. This is your turn to speak directly to the listeners without me interrupting with questions. So go ahead. Erin the floor is yours.

Speaker 3 28:30

Thank you, kathy. Well, people can find me at my website, which is compassionatecoachingorg, and I love just to hear from listeners. So if anyone wants to just contact me directly, you can do that on my website or just send me an email. I love to hear from people. My email is erin E-R-I-N at compassionatecoachingorg and I do have some free resources on my website. I do actually have I'm writing a book as well a wait list for my book. You can find that on my website in the about section. I write about my experience with my sister, gina, who had really severe cerebral palsy, and so I had a very long relationship with anticipatory grief, which is another type of grief that really doesn't get a lot of air time, and so writing a book about that experience if anticipatory grief is part of your caregiver journey, which is 99% sure it's- part of your caregiver journey.

Speaker 3 29:34

You might want to check out the wait list for my book at compassionatecoachingorg. Forward slash about.

Speaker 2 29:40

That sounds fascinating, and it also sounds like a great reason to have you back another time. Maybe, as your book gets closer to launching, you'll reach back out to me and we will chat about the anticipatory grief and announce your book. How's that? That sounds wonderful. I would love that. I'd love to have you back as a guest. It's time to say farewell. This is a tough part for me, and one of my great guests not too long ago maybe just the last two, second or third person said to me you know, poor Kathy, every time she has to end her podcast, she's grieving. Said to me you know poor Kathy, every time she has to end her podcast, she's grieving. I never thought of it that way, but grief is response to a loss. So, yeah, I'm losing you guys for a little while. I'll be back again and hopefully you'll be back again to take care of yourselves, okay, as we all continue to live and grieve.

Speaker 1 30:34

Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at as I live and grievecom, and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live and grieve together.