Jessica Bagnell and a New Journey on the Pacific Crest Trail

Martin welcomes returning guest Jessica Bagnell as she hikes the Pacific Crest Trail with a trail partner, where weather governs tempo and small errors accumulate into consequence. Jessica reflects on the first weeks on trail, when comfort becomes irrelevant and daily life is reduced to judgment, pacing, and mutual reliability.

Shared distance exposes character with unusual speed. Jessica and Martin explore companionship, self-command, and why long trails continue to attract people who distrust the false satisfactions of modern ease.

Follow Jessica Bagnell’s adventures here → @jcababy814

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

I'd like to welcome back a friend of the podcast. She was a member of the class of 2023 AT through hikers. In fact, she was the only one that finished that year. Uh, we, you know, we had some people who had issues they were dealing with. And uh, hey, you know, as you've heard me say over and over again, it's not a failure, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. And the other two hikers enjoyed themselves. But Jessica, she had completed the Appalachian Trail. This year, she's setting out for another through hike. Jessica Bagno, welcome back to Papa Bear Hikes.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Thank you for having me, Martin.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And it's great to see you and talk to you. I was so excited when you reached out, I guess it was about a week ago or two weeks ago, telling me that you would be hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. And you and I asked, and you said to be willing to come on and talk about it. And I'll make the announcement now. Jessica's going to come on regularly, not or as regular as she can. I mean, it's there's a lot of factors here. Can she get you know getting into town, having internet, etc.? Uh, and give us updates, just like she did when she was on EAT. And and that's a lot of fun. I had gotten away from doing the the class hikes as I had done two years in a row. And I thought, okay, this is a good opportunity to bring some fun back in, something interesting. I had a lot of positive feedback on on those hikes and following those hikers. So, Jessica, I want to first thank you for agreeing to come on here and to talk about your upcoming hike.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

So the PCT, right? A few years have passed now. When did you decide to uh take on the PCT to go out there and do a PCT through hike?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So the plan to do the PCT was almost immediately after the AT. Um I know we had talked about it on our last conversation after I got off trail. Um, and I had been hoping to do it 2024, the year following the AT hike, but finances just didn't allow for that. So we made kind of like a three-year plan and decided to do it when we had enough money. Um, I am hiking it with a partner this year. So that'll be a little bit different from the AT hike that I took on solo, but yeah, it was just money.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah, and people don't realize through hikes cost money. It's not cheap. You know, it's not like I grab my sleeping bag tent and backpack and go walking around in the woods. You still have to eat, you still get off the trail, you still have to stay, you know, you still want to stay in a hotel and get a hot shower every five days or so.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, yeah. Plus, sometimes, you know, other most of us probably still have bills while we're out there. So there's no income coming in and there's still stuff going out of the bank account. So right.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

The car payment doesn't stop because we decided to go on a through hike, right? You know, the mortgage doesn't stop getting paid. The bank doesn't say, hey, go out and have fun for six months. You don't have to pay us.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

If only they were so understanding.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah. What's wrong with these banks? I mean, come on. You know, shouldn't we all be allowed to have some fun? Loosen up, banks. Come on. But that's great that you were able to get yourself in a position finally to do this because that's a big restraint with people, is is the financial event. You know, I mentioned the food and stuff like that, but you're right. There's there's the at-home expenses that people have that the clock doesn't stop ticking because you decided to uh, and I say fun, but you know, it it's it's type A fun. It's um it's one of those bucket list lifetime type of adventures you go on. And you know, obviously you have to have a passion for hiking this. And uh Jessica, you know, you said you decided right or I remember we I remember us talking about this, and it's very common for people to finish the AT and say, you know what, I I think I want to do the PCT. So great to see that's coming to fruition for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, I caught the through hiking bug, as it's called, like about halfway through the trail. And um, I I remember going through Virginia and thinking to myself, like, man, I gotta, I gotta get out there and do more of this. Like, this is it.

unknown 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

There's a married couple that they were in my first class of uh AT through hikers, and they finished up and decided they were doing the PCT, then they did the CTT, and then this year they did the Florida Trail. So they haven't stopped. They took a year off because I think one of their kids were getting married. They had some a lot of family activities going on. They took a year off, but then got right back out and started hiking again. Did this year you're hiking with a partner? That's interesting because those of us who've done any kind of extended backpacking, no, that that that's a bit of a game changer. Okay, because you're no longer doing what you want to do when you want to do it. You now have to have some consensus in your plans. It's not, I feel like hiking 20 miles or I think I'm just gonna quit after 10 today because that's all I have in me. There's a lot of um, you know, give and take that goes along with this. So your partner that's hiking with you, is this somebody you know well, or is this somebody that you partnered up with because of because you both are hiking the PCT?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Um, I would say it's somebody I know fairly well. So when I did the AT, I was in a different relationship and I left my spouse at home to hike. And I think being apart from each other in that way actually contributed to the dissolve of the partnership. Um, but my current partner is somebody I met while I was out hiking the AT. Uh, so our relationship is kind of like founded on through hiking, because this is somebody who also has an interest in through hiking. Um, so it was one of our goals in the beginning of the relationship was like to do a through hike together. So I think that's important. If you're going to take somebody on a through hike with you, you should make sure that you both independently like through hiking. Like I would say, don't drag your spouse or your partner out on a through hike hoping that you'll convert them to a through hiker like you. Um but yeah, we've done some week-long backpacking together. So we know that we can survive at least a week.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Well, this is somebody who knows what what through hiking is.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

It's not always gonna be you know the romantic version we hear of it, that there's going to be challenges out there.

unknown 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

And you know, and it sounds like since you have done some hiking with this person, you kind of have a feel for each other's style too, and expectations on a hike.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yes, yeah. I think you're right though, it does add like a whole other aspect because you know, when you're by yourself, you do whatever you want. You can stop for a lunch break when you want, you can get up and leave camp when you want, you can hike as many miles as you want. And when there's another person involved, you have to make compromises on things like that. But I think that's something that I mean, we've talked about it already before even getting on trail. So I think that's something that you just would talk about your partner with before you even set foot on the trail.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Right. There's pros and cons. I've done both. I've hiked with my kids, I've hiked with friends, and I enjoy those times. I wouldn't trade them in. And yes, we're, you know, like I said, the pros and cons. And when you're hiking with somebody, especially if it's somebody you know well, there's gonna be those moments or you're gonna be a little grouchy and maybe snap at each other, and you're just gonna have to have the sense to say, all right, let's just give yours give ourselves a little distance here for a little while, whether it's a half hour, an hour, or a day, right? Yeah. Um, like I I've I I've interviewed uh husbands and wives, and it's always my question. You so you made it through. Okay, great. You're still married after this. Um but yeah, it's when you if you know the person well that you're hiking with and you know each other's hiking styles, it it doesn't alleviate the possible tension it can create because yeah, we get hungry, we get grouchy, we get tired.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

You know, most a real thing out there.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Uh yeah. My middle son and I, when we did the Tahoe Rim show, we joked about that. At the end of the day, we'd find ourselves kind of snapping at each other a little bit, you know, because it's like, yeah, I just want to get to camp and eat.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Do you have a start date for the PCT?

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah, uh, our permit date is March 25th.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Okay. Oh, so you're you're you're not far off now at all. You're counting, you're in countdown mode. Countdown mode, yep. Wow, that's that's exciting. So preparation for this uh versus the AT. And the AT, this was that was your first through hike. Is there anything you're doing different on this one?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Um, so for the AT, I did a lot of walking. I didn't necessarily do like loaded pack walking, I just wanted to get my legs used to doing that much walking. Um, and I think that served me pretty well because I was doing low teen miles pretty much right off the bat. Um, so I was hiking fairly fast. And this time around, I so I've actually relocated uh to the Midwest. So I don't have as much like hiking opportunity out here. Um there's some trails, but we've been doing some walking just on gravel roads just to get a little bit used to the walking. Um, but I've noticed that my body seems to have like a good memory recall on this. We did an eight-mile day the other day and I was perfectly fine. So I'm not too worried about like physical preparation. Um I think mental preparation is a big thing for me, though, because I get very like romantic about these hikes. I did it on the AT, I did uh the second half of the long trail this last summer, and it happened there too. Like I overly romanticize being out on trail. And then you get out there and it's cold or it's raining or the day is not going how you want, and you just have a little toddler tantrum, you know. And so that's kind of what I'm focusing on is like mentally preparing myself for things to suck, you know, the embracing the suck. Um, so I guess that's more of what preparation is happening right now.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

That is a big part of it, right? And what do they always say? Don't quit on a bad day.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

You might wake up the next day and laugh off that bad day that you had.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

And be able to move on. As far as gear goes, have you made any adjustments in the gear? I mean, you know, obviously you're the the climate is different at the start, right? You're not going in, you don't have the Georgia Mountain early spring to deal with like you would on the AT. I think you know it's much warmer in Southern California starting out on the PCT. But there are any other like major gear changes you made from the AT?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Um, so I did have to get a new pack just because my other pack had, you know, standard wear and tear on it. Um, I also got a new quilt just because I had started with kind of a cheaper quilt for the AT. So I made like quality upgrades. Um now that I know I'm invested in through hiking, I suppose I'm willing to drop a little bit more money on quality gear. And of course, I have now micro spikes and an ice axe. Um, we got bear cans for the required bear can carry through the Sierras. That's something I've never carried a bear can in my life, so that's something I'm like trying to figure out how to strap it to the top of the pack and whatnot. Um, but no other real big changes other than like the quality upgrades. Most of my stuff is like tried and true. You know, I might have gotten a new sun hoodie just because my other one had sweat stains all over it, but mostly just same old stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, when you do an AT through or any of these longer, these long trail through hikes, you're putting you're putting your gear through to amount of use that some people might put through in a lifetime. That's true. Right. So it's not, yeah. So I hear all the time, yeah, I had to buy a new tent. Yeah, my tent was my backpack, was shot by the end of the, yeah, my clothes. I just got rid of my clothes because yeah, they're the sweat stains were so bad they they were never coming out. How about with uh food and resupply?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah. So on the AT, I got real nervy and anxious about resupply. I mean, obviously, it was my first through hike. I was worried that I would have to send boxes everywhere. And I um started with the idea of trying to stay on a more low-carb diet, which was totally a mistake. You definitely need lots of carbohydrates to fuel through hiking. Um, but so I had bought a lot of food before the AT and pre-packaged it in boxes that were intended to be sent to various places. And I got sick of the box food after probably like my second box, and asked my partner at home to just stop sending them. So that was probably a couple thousand dollars I had spent on food pre-hike that I ended up not using. Um, so I did do a little bit of research on resupply, and there's maybe one or two towns that people say you really should send a box, but it's more common for PCT hikers to send boxes from the trail. Um, so like Stahegan is a stop I hear of, for instance, that has a pretty low resupply option. So people send a box there, but they'll do it from further back on the trail. So I'm not putting too much stock into it and not really worried about it. It's something I'll kind of deal with while I'm out there because it's pretty stressful to worry about getting into town while a post office is open or having somebody at home coordinate sending stuff out to you. And I just would rather not deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, I've done both, and I kind of lean towards now it's kind of fun going into town and buying food.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I've seen it kind of a fun thing to do, first of all. And it doesn't take long to get tired of that food that you put in those boxes. Absolutely. It looks delicious, maybe, when you're when you've got, you know, three or four, in my case, it's just like three or four boxes sitting on the floor and you're loading them up, you know. And then, but you're thinking, right, five months I'm gonna live on this stuff, right? It doesn't take long to get tired of that.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

That's like I ate nerd gummy clusters through all of Virginia on the AT, and now I can't look at a nerd gummy cluster without scrunching my face up in disgust. So yeah, I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Drew Hiking can make you hate certain foods. I went years where I couldn't eat maple oatmeal anymore. Brown sugar maple oatmeal. I didn't believe that. Yeah. Oh, and that was like after two weeks of eating it straight. Uh one of the cliff bars, one of yeah, I that it was a flavor, I can't remember what it was now. I I loved it, but oh after seven days, I was like, I can't eat these things anymore. Uh and yeah, it took me a long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

But I think it's just better to do it as you go and whatever. If it's a little bit more expensive, that's okay. Because at least you know you're getting your calories, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, you said you were considering trying uh low carb, and and I've talked to people that that have been on vegan diets. Um matter of fact, one of the gentlemen that was with hiking in the class you were with when you did the AT, he was doing the keto diet. And he had problems. He had to get off the keto diet while he was hiking because his body just was not it was crazy, it needed those carbohydrates.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, that's um that's what I was trying to do when I started was the keto diet. And it was just to eat that much fat out there was just not sustainable. It just wasn't giving me the fuel that I needed either.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So yeah, you're you're putting your body through something that it's just in this day and age, just not used to, right? Not the pioneers crossing the country to you know go on the other side, right? We're you know, we're used to just kind of getting up and maybe go for a walk outside, or some people they might just from the couch to the TV as they're walking for the day. In your pre-trip planning, are there any places on the trail at this point you're anti that you're like, wow, I can't wait to get to this place or that place, or is it just the idea that now you're just anxious to get to the starting point on the trail?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Um, so I'm definitely just anxious to be out there. I don't know too much about like specific places along the trail. I I have this sort of weird thing where if the mystery is high, then I feel like I'm not spoiling it. So it's um it's like I get to have this really like childlike, free, fun feeling of excitement when I learn about something that's coming up and it's like, you know, only 50 miles away, and I'll be like, what? No way. Of course, I know, you know, the big things, like I know I'll be in the desert, and then I know I'll be in the high Sierra, but I haven't done any like town-specific research or anything like that. Um, I can say I'm very nervous about the Sierras, as I think every PCT hiker probably is, but I have no snow experience like that. I am kind of afraid of exposed heights hiking. Like the stuff in the whites and in Maine was very scary for me. So this is like I imagine it'll be more intense than that. Um and there's you know, the fear-mongering, the stories that you hear about high water crossings and people who fall off mountains and slide down how many hundred feet, and so I'm just you know, deep breath nervous about that, but otherwise that's it.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Those perils exist on the AT. They do. Yeah, they do. It doesn't get talked about as much.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

That's still like well, so the year I hiked, we had uh, I think it was a record high rain year for the Northeast. And I remember seeing articles posted while I was in Vermont about people ahead of me in Maine who were hiking through chest deep water. And I was like, oh, it'll be fine, it'll be dried up by the time I get there. But I was hiking through knee deep water, and there were some river crossings that on far out said, This is a trickle, you can cross it on stepping stones, and I had to swim across. So, yes, I've dealt with stuff like that, but it's the I guess the cold that adds like an element of scare for me. Because I think about doing a river crossing like I did in Maine, where I have to swim, but then I get out of the water and it's 30 degrees. Like that's the part that scares me.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

So I spoke to somebody that year. I was actually when that rain was coming down, I was in the Adirondacks. Oh God. And we ended up we ended up bailing. We were gonna spend a week, two, I was gonna spend two weeks up there. I had a friend with me, and after two days, we'd heard about all this flooding, and we ended up having to bail. We said, No, we it's we we had locals telling us, no, you don't want to go out there.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, yeah. I was hiking around a woman who was a uh an accomplished triple crowner on her like fourth AT hike, and she got off trail because she said the conditions in Maine were too dangerous for her to feel comfortable. And there were sections I skipped or roadwalked around because I read comments about the water crossings, and I was like, nope, I'm okay.

unknown 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

So I spoke to somebody who was she had to backtrack and go around. She went to her her and the people she had been hiking with went to a lean to. And this is before the rain started, got their water and said, Okay, well, there's a stream here, it's not a bad crossing. It rained all night, got up the next morning, they could see the stream from the lean to. And it was like, we're not getting across. That's no longer a stream as a river.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

And again, you know, there's things you have that can make you have to change your plans on on both trails. Uh, one of the challenges on the PCT, of course, is wildfires. Last year didn't seem to be a bad year, but there's always that possibility. Have you given any thought to plan B's if you end up in a in an area where there's a wildfire?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Um, just follow whatever the U.S. Forest Service or whoever is managing it puts out about it. I mean, if we have to hitch around or whatever, catch some kind of transportation to skip up ahead, we will. I'm not a purist. I'm not a redliner. So, you know, I know the wildfires take miles out of people's hikes in the end, and that's okay. I'm ready to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

I am so glad to hear that because look, if you get to a certain point and there's a wildfire and you're forced to, you know, go around it, but you're still hiking, you're still going. Yeah, yeah. In my mind, you still hiked the trail, you still hike the PCT, and it's not that's something that's out of your control. So should you have to go back the next year and hike that section? No, that's silly.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

We are in nature's playground. This is not our earth, this is Earth's earth, and we're lucky to be here and get to recreate outside, but we don't make the rules. We just have to adhere to them. You know, like I can't control the weather, I can't control any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

So Yeah, you sound you're just ready to roll with whatever's thrown at you. Right. If it's thrown at you, you'll deal with it. If you got to go around it, you go around it. Exactly. Yeah, I'm that's so refreshing to hear. Yeah. I am the whole purest thing. I uh I've I've never through hiked. I needed three big three trails, but I can't see myself starting in Georgia, getting to let's say Vermont, and I have to skip a section because of rain or something because the trail's washed out and saying, yeah, getting to Qatat and saying, well, I didn't hike the whole trail. I, you know, I'm not a through hiker because there's this like 20 or 30 mile section I had to go around in Vermont. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

It's it's very funny you say that. So I, you know, you get off the trail, and like I had some guilt about those little sections that I skipped at first in Maine because of the rain. And then um there was a a small portion of like of New Hampshire right after the whites and the wildcats, I think that's New Hampshire, um, that I missed because I had intense knee pain and I thought I had Lyme disease. So I got off trail for a little bit and rested my knees and got tested. And then I I skipped up so that I could be with people I had been hiking with. And it was like a hundred-mile section that I missed. And I'm talking to my friends about it, and I'm like, man, I'm not really an AT through hiker because I skipped this section. And one of my friends back home who has always wanted to hike the AT, she was like, Do you know how ridiculous you sound? And I'm like, What do you mean? And she's like, So you're gonna tell people that you've hiked 2,000 miles, but you didn't hike 2,200 miles, so you're not actually a through hiker. Like that just sounds absurd. Who do you even know that's hiking that long in the first place? Like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

I I walked from Georgia to Maine, but I'm not a through hiker.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, exactly. So it is silly, and it and it really only happens on the AT, that like purest mentality.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I've some people are very militant about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, it's it's just like strange East Coast brute force culture. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Well, I mean, here's something weird, and it's not just the AT. I mean, it's an East Coast thing because I wrote my I wrote a book about my hike on the long trail. And somebody contacted me and said, You didn't hike the whole trail. Your book doesn't mention this shelter on the long trail. And I was like, I didn't mention the shelter because I didn't stay there. I I hiked past it. I mean, you know the long trail. There's a shelter about every five miles. You're not staying in every shelter. Oh my goodness. Really? I mean, you know, yeah. I'm being accused of not hiking it because I didn't mention a certain section or a shelter on the trail. I was like, that's just so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Well, those those people are usually couch hikers anyway, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Well, yeah, that's what I picture somebody eating potatoes and looking at people hiking on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Do you have an anticipated time frame for this hike, Jessica?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Um, we're thinking we'll be done around the end of August. That might sound ambitious, but it took me five months to do the AT. Uh, and I took a collective like three weeks off just to go. I went home for a concert for a little while. I had some stuff at home that I had to deal with, so I got off trail for a week for that. And then, like I said, I took time off for my knee. Um so I think five months is a pretty good time frame. Um, my partner thinks we'll finish sooner than that. But I know the PCT is a little bit quote, easier than the AT as far as like getting in higher mileage um because it's not so brutal. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, I can tell you out west they have switchbacks, which makes a difference. I made my first hike when I went out to the Tahoe Rim Trail. I referenced that a few times, but that was my first experience hiking out west. And I was very intimidated looking at the elevation changes. And once I got out there, I was uh I found myself saying, Wow, I did a 14-mile day with a lot of elevation gain and felt like wow, that wasn't bad. You know, what a big difference. As opposed to, you know, the AT is designed, you know, point to point. You know, the quick, the fastest point is a straight line. That's pretty much how the AT is designed, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

And it's it's worse the farther north you get. Like, you know, you're in Georgia and you're like, okay, this is tough, but like you said, like I did the second half of the long trail this last summer from main junction on to Canada, and I was like, this is not even a trail. Like, this is just some guy was like, I want to go whatever's steepest. I'm going up that.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Right, right. Yeah, there's a mountain. Let's go straight up that mountain and straight down.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Right. Yeah, yeah. Once you get past Main Main Junction on the long trail, yeah, it's and I I hiked with uh when I did that when I did that section of the long trail, there was somebody that I hiked with a few days who had was an AT through hiker. And as we were, because I I had done it southbound, he said that there were sections of that of the long trail that he felt that were at least if not as difficult as the whites at times.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

It it was a hundred percent. Um, oh, I'm struggling to remember smuggler's notch.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yes. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, not Mansfield.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Off of Mansfield, I was like, what is this? Yeah, yeah. And then going back up the other side, I was like, no, this is no.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

I uh you know, I went back and did it a second time, some of the sections, and I remember going back and doing it northbound and saying, you know, I at one point I'm climbing up and I'm looking and I'm saying, Why what am I doing? Am I putting myself in danger here? And then going down. And and there was this one part where I'm not tall, I'm not, yeah, I'm almost a small guy to begin with. I'm looking down, I said, there's only one way for me to do this, and that's going to be the jump. You know, get my feet as close as I can and then like drop about two feet or you know, eight ten inches.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, but yeah, that I've talked to a number of PCT hikers, and and that's that's that's a big difference out there. And of course, you know, the each trail has its different challenges, but uh you know I think it sounds to me like you know, your goal isn't to be able to say, hey, I hike the PCT. You're you want to you want to have an experience.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

I do want to have an experience. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

And not putting a hard time frame on it. I think you're allowing yourself to say, um, you know, keep things into perspective while you're out there. Yeah, it's not to be able to just start at the go border to border and say, I'm done going home.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Well, that was something that was important to me anyway, because when I um did the AT, I was anticipating starting school after I was finished. And so I had like a hard deadline, um, which is why I kind of went so fast in the beginning and felt pressure to maintain like a super quick pace. And sometimes I wanted to just relax and go slow and hang out, and I really couldn't. Um I had a deadline up until I hit New Jersey when I decided not to go back to school and do the thing. But yeah, that I don't I wouldn't say it ruined the beginning because I did enjoy hiking fast, you know, I enjoy challenging my body, but um it plays into the mental game a little bit when you have this like alarm bell going off in the back of your mind, like make sure you keep pace. And this I hope to be a little bit more relaxed and enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, I think when you remove that pressure, it's I know it myself. I because I I went through this on the long trail. That was my first long distance hike. When I reached that point where I just said, if I finish, I finish. If I don't, I just spent all this time in the outdoors going into town, meeting some really nice people and having fun. Yeah. It changed, it it felt like the it felt like uh you know, uh a boulder was lifted off my shoulder at that point. You know, it's just like, okay, you know, now I just have fun.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah, that's something I'm so excited for is the the community, being back in the community. The hiking community is just unmatched. You can't find something like that anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

I say it so often. It just seems to give us hope that there are some really good people out there. As much crap that's going on in the world right now, all this stress and tension right now, it reminds us that there are good people out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah. And I think it gives hope that unity is possible too, because it it puts you in a situation with people from all walks of life, and you you have this shared common interest, this like passion for being outside and recreating outside, and it removes a lot of that stuff that divides us in the front country. And so you can make friends with people you would not expect to be friends with.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah, right. Yeah, all right. No politics. Uh everybody's just the same, right? Exactly. No religion, no politics. Everybody just you're all just dirtbag hikers and trying to get along, right? Trying to help each other out. So, Jessica, are you going to be putting any of this up on your social media for people to see? Would you like uh us to be able to share that with people?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Uh sure. I do plan to post to Instagram pretty regularly. Um, my Instagram. Should I drop my handle?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

You can, and we'll put it in the uh link for the in the description. We'll put a link in the description for this episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

It's JCA Baby814 on Instagram. Um, I also am blogging for the trek again, although I don't want the same rigorous schedule I tried to set for myself last time. So I'm not sure how many posts I will actually be posting on there.

unknown 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

And of course, you got to make time to come on here.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

You know, screw screw screw the track. Yeah. Screw the track. Okay, Jessica. I am looking forward to hearing from you. And uh yeah, just you get in touch with us when you're comfortable in a comfortable place and feel like chatting with us for a little while.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing these plans and uh anticipation of your upcoming adventure, and best of luck to you out there. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening. If you haven't done so yet, go to our website, pomopehikes.com, listen to past episodes, check us out on social media, go to our YouTube channel, Martin Outside. All those links are there. In addition to that, you can buy a book or see what you're missing out on if you're not a Patreon member yet. Remember to get outside, have fun, be safe.