Part 1 of Building Authority and Attracting Clients: Tony Rulli interviews Charlotte

In this special episode of the Authority Builder Podcast, Tony Ruilli of Intentional Spark flips the script and interviews Charlotte, founder of Kaffeen, about her Authority Builder programme and the art of building authority as a consultant, coach, or agency owner. 

The conversation dives into the challenges of moving beyond referrals, overcoming imposter syndrome, and the emotional hurdles of stepping into an authority role. 

Charlotte shares practical strategies for creating an “authority platform”—from hosting podcasts and writing books to leveraging existing content and sales call transcripts. 

The episode also explores the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and being genuinely helpful, rather than self-promotional or salesy. Listeners will gain actionable insights on how to start building authority in a way that feels ethical, approachable, and sustainable, with tips for repurposing content and developing a consistent marketing system. 

Key topics include mindset shifts, content creation hacks, and the value of sharing expertise generously.

Transcript

0:01

Hey, before we get into this episode, I just wanna give you a heads up. This is a really long conversation I had with my business buddy, Tony Ruly of Intentional Spark and uh, he was actually interviewing me about the way we work with clients in our Authority Builder program, which I think is gonna be of really great interest to you. Some of the most exciting work we are doing with clients, and I'm super excited to say that doors are gonna be opening soon to Authority Builder. So, uh, you'll have probably heard a little ad before this, uh, giving some, um, guidance on that. Um, but what I wanna say was, this was a really, really long recording and so we've divided it into two today. We're gonna be sharing the first half of that with you. And, uh, in the next episode we're gonna be showing you showing the other half. And, uh, the second half is really much more about how we apply this to, um, specific people in their business. So in this example, we're applying it to Tony and it gives you some really great takeouts of how to directly apply this to your business even if you don't come and work with. Me and caffeine. So definitely, definitely listen in, listen in today, but also join us for the next episode when you're gonna get some really applicable or easy to apply action strategies. So, um, yeah, without any further ado, get on into the episode and I really have, I really hope we have the opportunity to review your application to Authority Builder and, uh, hopefully have the opportunity to work with you. Okay. Over to, uh. Past Shala and Tony. Okay.

Audio Only - All Participants 1:37

hi everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Authority Builder Podcast, and you can hear a smile in my voice because I'm in a bit of an uncomfortable situation where, my, I guess, business buddy at this point. Tony is Yeah, yeah. Is interviewing me about You can make it official business, buddy. That's good, good, good term. I, I feel we've spoken about this a lot, the kind of concept of authority building and it felt like it, we, we keep talking off the record about it and so much about what, you know, the stuff you extract from me when we talk about this is super helpful in terms of my client's understanding how we work with people and why this is important. So we decided that this would be good opportunity to actually record something around it. So no further ado. Welcome Tony. Yeah. We're gonna flip things around here. Mm-hmm. So. I think I'm gonna lead this and I'll kick it off. Welcome to the Authority Builder Podcast, special edition hosted by Tony Ruly from Intentional Spark. what we're doing today is actually interviewing Charlotte, and talking about what Charlotte does, what caffeine does. and just a quick overview. I know probably every single person listening knows this, but in case there's new people, char and caffeine help consultants, coaches and small agency owners build client systems that actually work without the sleaze hustle or the endless guessing, nearly 20 years of experience in new business strategy. Caffeine and Charlotte have helped top tier agencies grow their biggest accounts and solo experts land high value clients who find them not the other way around. And I think that's where I always start picking your brain. And selfishly, today I get to ask you all the questions that you have to answer, about how to do this.'cause for us, we have a growth marketing agency where we focus on ads. And we have the classic case of all referrals, too busy to, work on our own marketing. We're slowly changing that right now. Um, but everything you talk about fascinates me related to this.'cause what you talk about is what we're trying to do, which is define yourself as an authority so that your ideal clients do start coming to you, not just from referrals, but from the content you produce, your own outreach. Um, and so that's, I mean, I have so many questions. also every time we talk, even before we do one of these interviews, we end up doing like a mini podcast episode. so we had, like, before this started, we were talking about some of the emotional aspects of being a creator and business owner, rejection, dealing with rejection when it comes to sales or clients, or the reaction or your fear of people's reactions. So we can take this in a lot of different directions. but for me, I'm really curious about your authority concept, because that is something we're actively working on ourselves. and really trying to figure that out. And I love the idea of not just the concept of being an authority, but actually creating a system around being an authority. Mm-hmm. and creating a process that, has a framework you can follow. so what's the core thing for you around being an authority as a business, as a business owner? Is there one, one place you start? Well, for me and I, I will speak kinda'cause I think that the coaches and, the kind of more of the solo consultants amongst the audience are more familiar with some of the aspects of digital marketing that, require people to show up and be an authority and, and, speak about themselves or speak about what they do and who they've worked with, et cetera. When I think of my smaller agency owners or people who tend to be busy doing the doing rather than the marketing, like yourself, Tony, you, you, it's the best position to be in when you've grown via referral, right? that's, that's the goal for everybody. But the easiest, easiest sales process is a referral. Right. Well, and it's also as far as the sales call, yeah, it is, it's always easier to get on one of those because you've you've kind of both been. Kind of vetoed in advance by the person who's introduced you and, and it's just so much warmer and nice. You feel like you can kind of cut to the chase. And just before this, I was talking about how I've recently hired a new member of staff and the interview process was basically when can you start? Because they work with somebody I really respect and I know that they really trust them. So I, this is by no means, replacing that and I just to, credit where credit's due. If you've grown like that, like Tony's grown intentional spark, then that is the best way to grow. there's no doubt about it. But for the people who, and I know you are in this position now, Tony, who want to, Grow a little bit more intentionally to borrow your wood and, uh, to, to have more of a plan, even if it's just an insurance policy, in case no more referrals come in. just safe in the knowledge that they're doing some kind of marketing. They're, they're making people aware of what they do and, uh, when to come and work with them. to me, this is the, the cornerstone of stepping into your authority. It's kind of as simple as that, really. So many of the smaller businesses I work with or agencies kind of up to, well, up to 200 people actually in some circumstances. So not even that small, but they have grown via referral for, all the best reasons. What that means is when they come to do any marketing, they tend to either talk too much about themselves or they don't know what to talk about, or they just don't do it, or they're really inconsistent. all of these things are. Really common, uh, for people who do not have a kind of systematic marketing program. And, to me, that is not allowing you to step into your authority and really own, what you do and who you are for in a way that is going to attract more of the right people in. So really it's about, in some respects we're writing our clients a permission slip to say, look, you know, you've been doing this for x number of years, you've worked X number of clients, they're so happy. They send you more work. You do not need any more proof that you are expert enough to go and talk about this and market yourself on the principles that you, you work by. That is what it means. Yeah. And for me, I don't know how many other creators and business owners and agency owners can relate to this, but there also is a bit of fear around. Being, deciding and going publicly out as an authority figure. this, this dovetails a little bit into what we were talking about before the podcast started of just the idea of once you're mentally say I'm an authority and you start putting content out where you're intentionally being an authority, it feels like you're setting yourself up to immediately get crushed by the internet of no you're not. You're, you know, and I think to some degree we all have that imposter syndrome, right? Where even though we mentally, logically know that's not true and that we are experts, it can still be a little scary, I think, to decide or the authority and step out. and I don't know for you if that's, and I think people then get scared too, of the fact of, how do I authentically be myself and an authority, right? Because it can sometimes put you in a position where you're this doesn't feel humble if you, sometimes we have some negative connotations, right? People are scared of sales calls'cause they don't want to feel salesy. And I always think the best sales calls are. More consultative. Right. And they don't, you don't need to be salesy, but I think that might be true with authority as well. But I'm curious what you think.'cause I have that fear as well of just, no matter how many people think we know what we're doing, we, we we're scared to share it because of that fear. Yeah, exactly. And I really, really struggle with this just before we started recording this. As Tony said, there are so many times where we haven't actually officially started recording. We're staying saying the best stuff and then trying to recreate afterwards. Yeah. Then I have to be like, let's stop, let's stop, let's say this. This is good stuff. This is, so there is a term that I came across, last year now, and which just sometimes, when you just find lexicon for stuff and you're like, oh, I thought that was just me. But the term is, and I'm sure lots of the audience are familiar with it, rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is just like this fear of being rejected and. I just wanna go back to that because the, before I kind of answer the, the, the question with kind of more strategy and kind of action points for anybody who does relate to what you just shared, Tony. But I, and also it's not, it's not just the fear of being rejected. It's, it is then it also makes you not do things because of that fear. Right. It's not just you're afraid, it's, then you actually don't even do the thing that could put you in a position to be rejected too. Yeah. And it, and it's really paralyzing. I was just sharing with Tony beforehand, I, alternate between these two manias, like being really excited, having loads of ideas and every really open about it. I mean, mental health wise and kind of neurodiversity wise. There's a whole lot going on over here. It has been for the best part of 30 years. And I, it is something I've learned to live with and, and, and kind of, not be too harsh with myself around, but I. I am very action biased. I move really quickly. But then some, and that can be, it can be in a real path of acceleration and all of a sudden I'll just, I have one of those moments where we'll be like, who do I think I am? Or what are people saying about me? And in my head, there's always one specific person I will share who, who I'm thinking of. and from my work past. And I am, I can hear that person saying, well, who does she think she is? I can hear it. And, and it's it like, this sat next to me and it's, it's, it's awful. It's crippling and it does make you stop doing the thing. But, so, even if you don't fully, and feel free to go find the, the proper definition online because I completely am ized it there. But like, if you, even if you don't like, you don't feel it in that extreme sense, I do think as, smaller business owners, myself included, where you. Don't necessarily get a salary and the book stops with you. And you can't share your fears and hopes and dreams with anybody unless you're paying an external coach. And, it can all feel like it's very much inside and you're going round and round in circles on some of these things and, ruminating and putting words in other people's mouths and, and sorts, in yeah, in your own head about what other people are thinking. And it's really not helpful. And it's one of the reasons that you do see this, we see this stop start process with clients before we start working with them. Or even when we do start working with them, they've got a tendency to kind of want to stop and burn it all down to the ground. And a, a big part of how we work with clients is, is, is helping them with the mindset around what they're doing and shifting.'cause so much of it isn't about the doing, it's about your brain space, when you are actually kind of implementing it. But the, some of the key things that I scribbled down as you were just talking then is, Nobody else is gonna give you permission if you are a small business owner, unless it's an external person, coach, mastermind leader, I dunno, shareholder mentor, and let like it, the, the book really does stop with you. Unless you give yourself permission to go out there and promote yourself, then nothing is gonna change. Like that is, to me, that is the definition of failure is not even trying. yeah. I am quite harsh with people about style. When I say mindset work, it's a lot of sometimes just get your ass in gear. Like classic Northern Yorkshire style kind of. I like that. Just get on with it. Yeah. I think we have that in common. I come from, you know, the east coast of the us. I come from Boston, so there is a bit of that. More aggressive, just do it right. Less. Yeah. Like you just, just put your head down. but I have a friend, Barrett Brooks, who's an executive coach, works with a ton of top creators. And he has this belief that, and I actually think it's true, and you, you just triggered something with me where what he, he thinks everyone, every business owner actually knows exactly what they should be doing, like what the next step is. But it's something psychological, emotional that usually prevents them from doing it, right? It's, It's, it's that person from 30 years ago that's still in your ear. saying like, well, you have too many ideas, you don't even do one, so why would you start? and so I think a lot of us have to either years of therapy maybe to figure out how to silence that voice or address that voice. Or for me, ignore it completely and come up with hacks to trick yourself to, to, to do it. you know, so for me, I talk myself off the ledge and just kind of close my eyes and, and jump. So like, if I'm scared of putting myself out there, I just kind of. You know, swallow it, which might not be healthy, but, I think a lot of us do struggle with that. And I think that is something where, because I think one of the things you talk about is, you know, how do you really define authority, but make sure it stays ethical and grounded. And I, I think a lot of times people have that question just around the idea of like, they feel scared to be themselves and an authority figure. Right? So then they think they need to be someone else. And that's where it feels unethical probably. Yeah. and so do you have tips for people about how to go out and present themselves as an authority? Yeah, I would say. Does it have to be you? We work with a lot of clients to create, we call, we, we talk about authority platforms. So yeah, for some people that's a book. For some people it's a podcast. One of the most popular ways when we're starting to work with clients who do feel a bit of kind of sensitivity around this or don't feel like they're an authority enough to write a book, which I fully disagree with, and I can, I can argue that one until their cows come home. But for, for some people what is more comfortable is them being the host of a podcast where they're interviewing people that they really respect or admire or, peers or, ex clients, hopefully future clients, people who also operate in a similar world and facilitate the conversation with those people. And, for many people, that allows them to step into their authority because as the, the person who's facilitating that conversation, You do get credited as, as a, as a big part of the content. my computer is telling me right now, it's a 50 50 conversation. you are interviewing somebody else. It's never just hearing their side of the story. And, that can be a nice way to ease people into the concept of having, an authority platform. And I wanna be clear, it's not about you standing from, on high and proclaiming the way in which you see things. And these are the commandments that we're, we've all got to obey if we're gonna do this. It's, it's not like that at all. It's part of a conversation and it's, Authority works best when you're open and vulnerable and more willing to create human connection. It's not when you are giving people the, the tenets of how they should do some things. So one thing that I always encourage people to think about is being helpful, probably more helpful than feels comfortable to do for people who've been told to keep the IP to themselves because it's the only kind of capital that they have in their business. I'm looking at, the people whose yeah, are basically a person in their Mac or studio people in their Mac and their imagination is their, their revenue source, basically. And it can feel, I'm looking at creative agencies here particularly. It can feel very, scary to share. but one thing that I do know people realize as they share more is they understand that. Even if they overshare an inverted comm, in their opinion, it's very unlikely that the person is gonna be able to go and execute it in the way that they did because they're bringing, secret sauce. They're kind of like, it's a bit of a dark art in a way. To them it seems normal. It seems like it's something that they do every day. It seems, it seems basic, but even if there's a million creative agencies in the world, each one has a very different creative process. And if you've worked really well with your clients, that doesn't matter how many times. You break it down into 10 steps you can do to evolve your brand and become a bestseller in your category. Kind of, it doesn't matter how prescriptive you make that guide or that lead magnet or that podcast episode, whatever, that a author book, authority authority thing becomes you, that person is never gonna be able to go away and fully execute on it, and most likely gonna listen. Read, absorb, watch however you deliver it and think, bloody hell, that person knows what they're doing. I should just go and pay them. It's gonna take me too much to go actually implement this. Yeah. And what you actually do by being helpful, is generate goodwill. and that kind of memory that people have. the number of times I get on a call and somebody says to me, I've been putting all your emails in a folder for about two years, and I finally plucked up the courage to speak to you. And like, oh my goodness. I feel like sometimes I'm just shouting into the void and no one's listening. But it, they are and they do stuff. Or like when somebody says, I, I've had a copy of your book on my desk. Uh, or they sometimes send me a photo of my book on their desk, which is really super flattering and, and weird.'cause again, it does feel a bit like your. Shout into the void sometimes. yeah. And that is the, once they kind of get on a call, they're at the point where they're, they're ready to move forward, they're ready to work together. So actually generating that kind of goodwill can help to leap frog you through that sales process. And, once I see people, you know, the, the, this kind of click into place as they go through this and they realize where the value is and how it works and what, you know, what that kind of chemistry process looks like, they lean into it more and they want to do more of it. And that was when typically I find that people want to go from being the curator of interviews with other peers to having their own thing, whether it's book or their own podcast, where they're talking about what they're doing. And I, and so, so people often pivot, they start with the interview, and then they, and then they move. Yeah. I find it's, I used to just that makes sense. That makes sense to me. Actually try and be, you know, in the kind of classic action bias that, no, you need to write a book, you need to do this. And then I realize, what, why am I doing this? it's, it's, yeah, it's not helping anybody. Let's think about what the kind of, the different steps are. And I think about, you know, myself, I started a podcast because I was having really interesting conversations, you know, a bit like the ones that we have. And it seemed a shame to me that they weren't going any further. So I started asking permission to record. And that was literally what the podcast episodes were. They weren't edited. They didn't have an intro and an outro. They didn't have jingle music or anything. It was just literally a, a, there was no descrip then there was no studio sound. It was, and I had a really shitty microphone, but I just knew that I was so tired, honestly, of speaking to people. Really interesting people. And then. Trying to ex referencing it to somebody and them saying, well, well what are the steps? What was the thing that you talked about? And me being like, oh, I dunno. It was just really good and not being able to articulate it. And I was like, oh, I'm sick of doing that. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna record it. That's how it started for me. And then it became a bit more formalized. Then I was encouraged to do solo episodes and that felt disgusting for a while. Yeah. And, and then now, and now it feels great. And, uh, I can talk about my process of how I even come up with those ideas to make sure that they have the most goodwill. But then the, the really interesting thing that happened was, uh, and probably if you've listened to this podcast a few times, you're probably familiar with the story. But, during postpartum, after my first child, I think, well, I wasn't diagnosed, but I pretty sure I had quite bad postnatal depression. And a big part of it was the shift in the way I was using my brain. Being a small business owner and right brain, left brain all the time to all of a sudden being in the house, not really speaking to very many people and feeling I was breastfeeding this child, 20 of the 24 hours in a day and losing my mind slightly. So the second time round, I knew I had to do something slightly different. And, uh, with my son, I made I kind of pledge, pledged with myself. I'm super strict about it. I'm not, not a very disciplined person when it comes to, habits in my home life. But when I was, uh, feeding, I'd have one spare hand and I, I would open the, the, uh, notes app on my iPhone and I would write down five to 10 things a day that I knew worked, to help an agency, a creative agency, win clients. And it was a really good way of jogging my memory, of kind of thinking things through. I had lots of time. There was no pressure and it didn't happen every day. But when I came back after my maternity leave, I, I had no clients initially'cause I'd been off a year. Yeah, close to 15 months actually. and things were starting to warm back up slowly in terms of, a huge client came in about two months after I came back. But those initial two months I was just like me and this notes happened. I was, all right, let's do something with it. So I edit it down to the main salient points. I went to the coffee shop and I dictated a paragraph under each of those points, and that became a book. And that is the book that I get loads of lovely comments about still. And, was an Amazon bestseller when it came out and in its category. And you know, it, so just wanna say that to say, I think if you've been bus in business 10 years or more, you have, you almost certainly have the right to be an authority in your space. And you can do that in a very. what's the word? non egotistical. Forgotten The word. Kind of measured, like chilled out. Not, there's a single word that covers all of this that I can't think Humble. Humble is the word I'm looking for. Yeah. You can be humble. Yeah. Not cock you be humble about it. You don't, authority doesn't mean, and coming back to, you know, standing on the mountain, reading out the Go Commandments, it doesn't mean you have to be dictatorial or megalomaniac about this. It's, it's stuff that you think is gonna be helpful and, and sharing that on so that more people get benefit from it. So, so now selfishly, I just really wanna ask more.'cause like, I'm in this place where we're actively working on growing our authority. Mm-hmm. trying to put systems together to grow our email list. right now working on actual digital paid offers, we have group programs, so we're working on that whole kind of. Ecosystem mm-hmm. To help people in different ways. and you talked about the book. Mm-hmm. You have a whole system for this, right? I mean, I think it's the same name as your podcast Authority builder. Yeah. Is it, is one a program that we offer Authority Builder? Yeah. So like, how, so if I'm the example, since I can be selfish here, what do you recommend? For me personally? Yeah. Like, is it write a book and then do what Okay. Or something before writing a book. So I just wanna preface this with, I am on Tony's email list, so I know some of what he's doing right now. One of the things that he has been doing is producing unique content every month, for a training slash webinar that he offers live, which is incredibly high value for zero cost to end. Yeah. and so I just wanna say you were already doing it, Tony, like you, you could take, how many of those, trainings have you done at this point? We've done, we're doing one a month. We've been doing it for four months. We have done four. Okay, cool. And you probably have a couple more that you're planning to do or, yep. Doing one today actually. So good time. Okay. It'll, it'll be done by the time people hear this. So for me, and so many people have something lying around on the server that's like this. it will be taking the transcripts of those recordings and working with them until you can, pull out salient points and, plan out a map of what are the important kind of topics that you've covered. Understand how is that, how is that relating to your client's pain points and challenges? And then expanding out under each of those sections, then how you actually release that out into the world could be multiple different ways. It could be that could be a book or it could be a podcast. but what we do know is that each one of those is effectively. All this incredible knowledge that you have that is being, pulled together. And then, so it's in kind of like a formula of how somebody goes through that thought process and then extracted out and ex extrapolate it out further on each of those points until you've riv really expanded it to everything that possibly could be. So for example, if you were gonna come into Authority Builder now, and you didn't have any assets at all, which is a bit of a different situation to where you are, we would talk to you about what you felt most comfortable about doing, how long you've been in the industry, what your connections were, what you felt like you were doing that was different from everybody else. And we'd really grill you on that. We, through a kind of onboarding session, we do one that is around messaging and tone of voice with our copywriting coach. We do another one with me, which is around strategy and our goals in terms of where you want to go with your business. Then we grill you more on what, what it looks like for you, what you are comfortable with, and we come back with a strategy about how you would create your authority platform. Once we've kind of got to that point and you've signed that off, we then develop out the content in it, and we do that through both the, the kind of resources that you've shared with us in, in advance and onboarding questions, and then further conversations as needed. So a big thing for us is when we've got questions, literally getting on a, a call like this and, and effectively interviewing you on a topic. because the thing is so many people who decide to go create something of authority, whether it's a book, or they, they try and strategize theirselves themselves outta something. They'll do it with Google Docs open and sitting in a coffee shop a bit like I did and staring at a blank page and not getting anywhere. And for so many of us, particularly those who, fast moving action takers, creative, leaning, and used to just getting on with stuff actually to be, if you're grilled on something by somebody friendly who's working with your business and they've got curious and intelligent mind, I'm pointing at myself, just giving myself that comment. but like really getting down into the weeds on it and really extracting stuff from you. The, you are, you are then speaking back in really human, human language. I know that sounds ridiculous, but when we write often we are not, we are not writing. It comes across as really snotty sometimes when we write, whereas when we speak, it comes across as, friendly and amenable and supportive, You know, a big reason for the survival of the human race, right, is staying in with the pack. And it's the same reason we have this fear of rejection is because we need to stay with the pack to stay safe. So when we're communicating through conversation, we've got this ability to, kind of communicate solutions and processes and, and thoughts and IP in a way that you just can't when you're trying to write it down. So I'd say regardless of what you choose to do, regardless of as a platform or regardless of how much kind of all, how many authority assets you already have lying around, whether you like Tony and you've got several, training recordings all in different topics that, relate, were very relatable for your clients or, whether you like, have a couple of kind of lunch and learn talks on the server or whether you, you just have a whole load of proposals that you've written for clients, but you know, there's some incredible strategy in there. or even if you feel like you've got nothing, I would, I would. Very much doubt that you have nothing. yeah, so I'll give you an example. Today this is a bit different'cause they're not an authority builder. It's a one-to-one coaching client, really, really innovative. Effectively a tech startup, but operating in the creative space. Really interesting company. and my client there has, is at the stage where they are, that stage of tech startup where the, the company could be like five different companies and they don't know which route to go. yeah. So they're having all these conversations that are all over the shop with loads of different partners and potential clients. And they dunno if they, if it's a client or it's an end user or it's a, it's like really kind of unknown. and they've kind of got themselves into a big knot. Understandably. I've been in the same position. so anyhow, I was like, okay, let's just start with this. You record. All of your sales calls, all of your client calls, you record them. This person uses Motion. I use Fathom. Either way, get one of those things installed because those recordings are incredible. And he sent me across three of his most recent sales recordings that came from meetings that we'd facilitated through our visibility platform that we've already worked with him on. And, we took the transcripts and, we collated all the, the thoughts in there into his description of what the business is, the pain points that the clients were talking through, their hopes and dreams. Also, this client of mine. talking through the pricing stretcher, which he's never been able to articulate before, talking through the backstory to why he even started the business. and there was another really crucial thing, yet all the questions that came up from the perspective client of his, him responding to them. So off the back of this, in this case, from, from the coated transcripts of those three calls we had, I think at least 30 pain points, challenges, hopes, dreams, kind of talking points that we can then develop into, Either a, a written lead magnet or different podcast episodes where we'd interview him, or it could even be a mini book on the topic for aspiring artists who are looking to grow by having a facilitation partner. Very specific niche, but we also have revised website copy. We also have a whole FAQ section for the website. We've got his offer pricing described in a way that's super relatable and accessible now because it's literally the way he described it to a client on the phone. Right, right. And, and a welcome sequence. So he actually wrote a, a 12 email, welcome sequence off the back of it. And I, I read it back after a gap, having drafted it. And then I take some time away and I go back and look at it and I was like, bloody hell, this is really good. I feel like we. It's so funny, we've had about six hours of calls at this point, but taking what is effectively 3 45 minute sale calls that he's had with prospective clients, has generated all of this absolutely incredible content that, I hate using the word content resources that he can now automate and put into action on behalf of his business. And by automate, I mean. You know, his website copy now works for him. So he is not having to take as many chemistry calls. His welcome sequence is helping people to understand are they ready for this, service? And if so, here's what to do next. And if not, here's what to go grab. Instead, he's got a, a, a lead magnet, we call a generous resource. Something that people really want to opt into that I feel confidently now would perform in, in a paid a situation. But definitely in our LinkedIn outreach situation, which we work on with clients, because they see themselves in it. so yeah, for him, he's at a slightly different stage of business for somebody who's already got the, the technology and the kind of facilitated stuff around them, they've already got a, a lead magnet. They've already got an opt-in page. You know, all, all these things. An authority platform serves a different role. So for example. We, I took five of your sales calls, using that example Tony, and, took the transcripts, then pulled out, the, the pain points and challenges that your clients talk about, and then we expand out each one of those into a podcast outline where you come on and just for 20 minutes, talk about how you've helped a client with that at some point in the past, or even just a agitate. I was gonna say aggravate, agitate that, that sensation that the client has and, and really describe it and help them when they're listening to understand that you get their situation. Then the transcript from that podcast episode can then be, extrapolated out into at least seven social posts, at least one email newsletter, at least one LinkedIn newsletter, a blog post. We recommend posting on LinkedIn and Instagram, but the, for most of our clients, but the, the we, I call it a waterfall method and probably there's a best way of describing, it's just the way my brain works. But having that initial podcast episode where you are just ranting at the microphone, whether it's on your own or with somebody else, you know, for 20 minutes, and taking the transcript of that and having, you know, creating all of your marketing content, outta that means for people who have historically not done the thing because it feels like too much effort. All of a sudden all you need to do is talk for 20 minutes and, and you're given really clear guidance on what to talk about, or as in like boundaries. And then you kind of use your knowledge within that. Yeah. And that, that transcript goes on to create all the rest of your content. So you really got no excuse not to do marketing.