Building Sustainable Business Growth with Kamila von Retteg

Building Sustainable Business Growth with Kamila von Retteg

In this episode, we welcome Kamila von Retteg, a seasoned business coach and marketing strategist for online coaches, course creators, and service providers. With over 11 years of experience, Kamila shares her insights on building sustainable revenue through scalable group programmes, automated sales systems, and paid ads—without the burnout of constant content creation or live launches.

Key topics covered include:

• The mindset and behavioural shifts needed to move from one-to-one to scalable offers
• The “messy middle” of business growth and how to navigate it
• The Roadmap Funnel: Kamila’s approach to evergreen webinar funnels and why she avoids the term “webinar"
• The realities of low-ticket offers, what makes them profitable, and common pitfalls
• Using paid ads sustainably, especially in the face of platform changes
• The power of podcast ads for visibility and nurturing trust
• The importance of investing in mentorship and external coaching

Kamila also shares practical tips for systemising sales, leveraging offers, and building a business that supports freedom and longevity. Find her on Instagram or visit her website for more on the Roadmap Funnel and her latest training, “Peak Buyer Window.”

Transcript

Audio Only - All Participants 0:00

hi, and welcome to the Authority Builder Podcast. Today I am really excited to be joined by Kamila Von Rettig. She's a business coach and marketing strategist for online coaches. Of course creators and service providers. With over 11 years of experience in the industry, she helps entrepreneurs create sustainable revenue through scalable group programs, automated sales systems, and you know, I like an automation around her and paid ads without relying on nonstop content, live launches or sales calls, which I know will appeal to a lot of our coaches out there. Her work focuses on systemizing sales so her clients can grow without burning out, and she's known for helping people simplify how they sell, create leverage with their offers, and build businesses that support more freedom, not more work. Her strategies are rooted in bio-psychology backed by experience and designed to evolve. With the seasons of business, and she has been featured in Forbes, Inc. And HuffPost and many more. And I just, I love this topic of bio-psychology, so I'm really excited to get stuck in with you today. Welcome to the podcast. Yay. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you and we're probably coming at it with different energy today'cause it's the end of my day and it's the beginning of your day and you've just done your workout. And mine was eight and a half hours ago or something. I'm well into the day and heavily caffeinated at this point. on that, I haven't even had my matcha yet today. Whoa. Good work. So whereabouts are you? I'm in Boulder, Colorado. Oh, amazing. That is a dream destination for me. My copy be writer is in Colorado Springs. And, apart from it being a complete pain for time difference, I. I adore her stories of living in the area. is my dream lifestyle. So congratulations on that, that life goal achieved. but tell me, you've been in business 11 years, which is rare in the online coaching space. What do you think has helped you stay in the game when so many others? Burnout or disappear? I think it's my personality. I don't really, I wanna say If something isn't going wrong, I don't necessarily see as As failure. Yeah. I just keep trying until I find the thing that works. Yeah, essentially. So that is a personality trait. On the one hand, I think on the other hand, it is something that is a skill that can be learned and a big part of it too, where I invested a lot into my growth. I worked with a lot of mentors and coaches, and I was always surrounding myself with people who were more successful than me. So being reminded of the fact that it's possible made it easier to pick up if things aren't going well and to get the feedback so that I could be more successful a lot sooner. And I think it was a combination of all of that.'cause I even think about when I first started the coaching business, it definitely didn't feel how it. After I invested in myself for the first time. Mm-hmm. and when I say invested, I don't mean buying a course.'cause I had bought courses and it wasn't the same thing. It was going all in for a year with a mentor at an uncomfortable price point. Mm-hmm. That is when I finally. Saw myself as okay, this is happening. And I felt, I felt that's when the, there's no other way, mentality came up about, and that's what I held onto I think through the years and, yeah. Yeah, that's, I think a couple of really big things there that I don't think there's such a thing as failure. it's just. Experiments that you've learned from and you pivot from. And, and I think especially, with, in my line of work working with clients, I see them bulk at initial results that they hoped would be better, way sooner than they should. Whereas I see it as a starting point to build from, which probably sounds it's probably people thinking and saying. Listening to this and thinking you shouldn't be admitting that. But I think it's really important to point out, unless we, have that Thomas Anderson mentality about evolving and pivoting and growing and, the importance of so-called failure in, in the growth curve rather than giving up. I think that's the, the super important thing. And also the other thing you mentioned, which is something that I've done a lot of over the course of the last year. is spend on external coaching. And it's really funny'cause the year prior to this I'd spent quite a lot of money on internal team and I'd prioritized that over coaching in which I had in previous years. one or the other, but it made me realize how important external Objective point of view, somebody who's not in your business but is looking at it and supporting you and is committed to that, how important that is. So I'm, yeah, I'm really pleased to hear you say that. and can you tell us a bit about exactly what kind of clients you work with and kind of what capacity you work with them in? Yeah, everyone is online, so everyone has an online based business. Yeah, they're all coaches or course creators. or they're creators that are wanting to start sell, selling courses, digital products, things like that. So a lot of them are experts, so they are not people that are just I'd like to start an online business. I don't help people that are in those beginning stages. Yeah. I focus on helping people who've already started their business. They already know what they're doing. They already know who they're serving. Yeah. They might need a little bit of help with refining the messaging and refining, yeah. The exact target. But my favorite thing has been helping people. Specifically go from just working with one-on-one clients and moving into scalable offers. So group programs, different types of, I, I focus primarily on evergreen group programs and being able to set up the sales systems to sell them essentially. So a lot of'em struggle with marketing. They feel uncomfortable with marketing. They feel awkward when it comes to talking about themselves. A lot of'em don't wanna be on sales calls. But they all have the same kind of mentality as I do. They're not just in it to make a quick buck. They're not just in it to let's see if this, this works. It's more like, this is already something I'm moving forward in and I want to make it better. I want it to feel more aligned with how I want my lifestyle to be, and they're willing to put in the work. Because a lot of times when people talk about funnels and when people talk about what's possible when funnels are working and what these systems are working, as I'm sure as you know. It's like you do have a lot of extra time. You do have a lot of, like, you get to not work as many hours. You don't have to do sales calls. these are the things that people are attracted to about me and how I've been living my life in the last several years. But my ideal clients are people that understand that you don't just sign up with me and immediately you have that lifestyle. you have to work up to that and you have to build things to make it happen. And, they're okay with that. They want to have, a more. Hands off-ish type of business. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so interesting'cause as you're describing your ideal client, it sounds a bit like what's often described as the messy middle of business where you've proven what you're doing, you know who you're working with and, and you've got some results, and now you're looking to take it to the next level without burning yourself out. As you know, you described in the bio that you shared with us, But I think there's all often a misunderstanding about how long that takes. And again, sometimes it's really fast for people, but I think that, I'm just wondering as as you were talking, what is the typical timeframe that it takes somebody to move from one-to-one to a more scalable offer without massively expanding their team, et cetera. And are there any mindset shifts or behavioral shifts that help them to accelerate that process along the way? Yeah. there's a ton of mindset shifts for sure, because they have to stop thinking like a coach or someone that's selling their time Into starting to think as more of a marketer really, because a massive part that makes this work is thinking like a marketer. it is a, yeah, little bit of a different shift in priorities and, the focus and stuff like that. I wanna say the biggest thing too, and Not directly address your question, but another thing that came up for me too. Yeah. The difference too, between the people who tend to be successful with this too, are not the people that are like, okay, I just started my business, or, you know, I'm, I'm working with a few private clients. I don't wanna work with people, but I wanna make more money. that's not actually the right mentality for someone to be actually successful because they don't wanna, like, I wanna sit on the couch and do nothing. The people that are actually successful are seeing, Hey, I'm working with these clients. I freaking love these clients. But yeah, I don't have the time. I need to help even more people and I want more people to be served, and there's no way, the way I'm doing it now is gonna make that happen. So I'm willing to do the things I need so I can serve more people while also making my life easier and making more money. Yeah. So I think that is an important shift that makes it easier as well, because again, it's not A bandaid or a quick solution. It's a process of impact that's being accelerated and and scaled, and that's probably one of the mindset shifts, potentially, if somebody's thinking one way is the kind of reality. The other thing is when it comes to funnels, people need to be okay with. Again, a lot of it is retraining how they think. This is something that I had to do. I never considered myself to be a numbers person or a spreadsheet person. I was definitely more of a creative person before I started my business, I was not a super logical person, and then I had to develop the more logical parts of my brain working in this business, and now I lean on them even more. So because funnels and building these types of systems, it's not Magic in a sense. you, the, the amazing thing about it's that you can identify what is and is not working. Mm-hmm. But you have to be okay with looking at these numbers. So a lot of times people, I remember before I started doing this, I would work with clients and I wouldn't talk about funnels'cause it wasn't something I was doing yet it at this scale. And a common thing was I'm posting and no one's seeing me, and I'm frustrated nothing is working. And there was never, coaches and creators are not really used to looking at the data to see, is that really true? Is it true that your offer isn't working? Is it true that what you're saying isn't what is actually the problem? Because a lot of times the problem people think is the problem isn't actually the problem. one of the examples is one, one of the funnels that I teach is what I call the roadmap funnel, and. People go through, there's a lot of steps as with any funnel. And then some people are okay, I did the thing and I'm not getting sales, but they're not ready for me to be show me the numbers, let's see if the funnel's actually not working. And then it turns out you've only had 50 people go through the funnel. Mm-hmm. That is not enough to say anything about the success of your funnel, so, mm-hmm. You do have to be okay with driving more traffic. It's a more methodical approach to it. To know if what you're doing is actually working. And the other thing that I also say, when it comes to building out these systems, there's different types of personalities that I see from people as to they're all aligned, they're all the perfect person, but there's different reasons for why they wanna do it. And. There's the person that wants to add this into what they're already doing. So if they have an audience and they're already working with tons of one-on-one clients, they want to ease up a little bit on how, how long it's taking for them to impact and, and grow their income and whatever. And for someone that, they either need to find more time make this work or hire somebody to build it out. I do usually recommend for my clients to do the strategic aspects on their own and then they can hire a tech person or something.'cause that's the easy part. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they could get that done in four to six weeks and potentially less, I've had some people do it in as little as two weeks to build the, the roadmap funnel specifically, which is the simplest step of funnel that we teach and. That's pretty much it. Right. So it really depends on how much time they have available and how well they know their audience. Yeah. For someone that doesn't know their audience that well and they don't have a, they don't have a very large audience, they're still Trying to kind of figure things out that they wanna start building out their business in a more sustainable, scalable way. It might take them a little bit longer because they might be changing their mind quite a bit throughout the experience. Yeah. Or they might not be very techie. They might not have the ability to hire someone to help them with the tech. So, For those people, it might take six weeks, it might take longer. I've had some people take months because they're going back and forth and they get stuck and then they're let me get distracted with other things. So it does kind of depend, on the person in terms of the timeline, as well. And as you had mentioned, the roadmap funnel quite a few times there. Can you talk a bit more about, you said it's kind of like a minimum viable kind of funnel for, was what I took out of it. Can you talk a bit more about what that is and who it's a good fit for? Yeah, so the Roadmap Funnel is essentially my version of an evergreen webinar funnel. Mm-hmm. And I don't like to use the word webinar because I find that there's kind of a negative connotation around webinars. Yeah. To be really salesy, sleazy, kind of not Great. And what, what do you use instead? Most class it's, it's a roadmap training. Oh, okay. So it's, it's a very specific type of training with the goal of. Showing your expertise, building goodwill with your audience. Yeah. And providing the roadmap to getting the outcome. So this is not about, typical webinars are very focused on hype. Yeah. So when people are presented with the buying decision, they don't actually know what they're buying. They know that there's an outcome that I can reach and I, I'm excited, which I don't personally even think that works nowadays because people are way more discerning, they're way smarter in terms of knowing what marketers are doing. Yeah, so the roadmap training is really focusing on providing the roadmap, and then your offer is simply let me do this process with you. And that's when you're enrolling them into your group program. Mm-hmm. So it's. Building the goodwill and providing the authority, or showing your authority through the process, but also not burning bridges because it feels really good for the viewer. It, it isn't gonna be a training where someone's oh my God, this was a waste of my time. that was a really big thing. Why I wanted to redesign how we do that training. And the roadmap funnel essentially is it, it's pretty straightforward in terms of what a typical webinar funnel does where people are standing up for the training, they're opting in, they're watching the training, and then they're going through an email sequence from there. And then a few other things NAP in, from there. So the flow is pretty similar, but it's the training that's quite a bit different and some people to do it live. I've had some clients that they prefer to have that live experience and they do it very consistently, maybe once a month every. Two weeks. They prefer to do it live. And then I have other people who do it on Evergreen. And ultimately, again, my, my thing I always tell'em is let's test it out and see what actually performs better how you feel, because everyone's different. And that's the other thing. It's not necessarily about fitting into a cookie cutter. Type of approach. Obviously I have a framework that they follow, but it is about, let me make this work for how I can consistently promote this and deliver this so that it feels good for me and I can actually keep doing it as well. Yeah. And what do you, I know it's, it is very individual, but is there a ballpark understanding of. What is more, more successful? Because recently we had a challenge in our business where we were doing weekly live trainings, which was our equivalent of a webinar. But we were finding as our targeting shifted, because the algorithm was shifting us more to clients in the us, particularly on the Pacific side, people were struggling to make the time of our training. And listeners know that I have two small children. It's very difficult to find a quiet space into the evening to be hosting training. So we shifted it to three slots a week, all different times, but prerecorded. In terms of the sales, we are seeing very similar metrics. And I was is it not important for me to be there live? a little bit, oh, what's my role then? I'm curious, what, what is, has been your experience of that and who does it work best for and how much indications should you give that it is prerecorded? So first of all, for the Evergreen version, we have people be able to opt in and immediately watch. Yeah. So that allows us to have 50% show up rates. So from a perspective of how many people actually attend and watch, there's a massive difference where more people are going to watch, on an on Evergreen. So from that perspective alone, I do. Find that the numbers tend to be skewed positively in that direction, but it does also depend on, every person is different. So I have some clients that they feel really robotic when they're no matter how much I'll coach them, they the evergreen training is not it's not it's a good training, but the energy isn't there and people do need to be engaged. I. We call it a live broadcast. So I don't call it a, we don't pretend it's a live training. they're really, they're live and they're, we don't do anything that. Yeah. But we do call it a live broadcast so they can attend a live broadcast and stuff like that. But we, that's, that's all we say. We don't say anything else during the training to whether it's live, it's prerecorded, whatever.'cause if people know it's pre recorded They don't show up and they don't watch it as much. I've seen the data anytime that we provide. we were testing where you go on the page. You can either choose your time. To attend or you can watch yesterday's replay. Yesterday's replay, and the show up rate on yesterday's replay and how long they're watching on yesterday's replay. Just knowing that it's a replay, but it's the same exact thing, significantly lower. So just knowing that it's a replay, people are just eh, whatever. So. I don't even include that as a, as an option nowadays, when I do that. Oh's so interesting. And the classic Evergreen still has the 50% shirt rates, but I'm assuming a lot of those people don't stay to the end in the way that they might do if they think it's a live broadcast. We see something similar. how, how long they stay as well is obviously dependent on the training itself and whether it's a good training, if it's something they're really, truly interested in, if it's there's so many different. Elements to the actual training. That means whether people will stay to see the, the training, the pitch or not. but then I, I will say I have some clients that they interacting with the audience a lot more. So even though they have a lower show up rate,'cause there's always gonna be a lower show up rate with a live they, the way that they are when they're live. A big part, not only is a training good, their energy and the fact that they're interacting with them and they're answering questions on the spot, there's a, there's magic around that which allows them to have better conversion. So it really depends on the person. To me, I'm okay with sacrificing a little bit of a conversion if it means I don't have to do it live.'cause to me, I can't do things live that much. to me, I will. I know my body doesn't that, and for that reason, I'm okay, if I, if my. Conversion drops by half a percent or whatever. it's not that big of a deal, which to me, I don't see a very big conversion drop. But again, that's in my experience. Yeah. And also I will say it depends on the price point too. the higher the price point, probably better if you're there alive. If it's a lower price point, typically we don't recommend doing this process. Very high price points. Usually 500 to 1500, I would say is the sweet spot. Mm-hmm. I have some clients doing$2,000 offers and$2,500 offers, and they'll still do work on Evergreen. I have funnels that are selling$2,000 to$3,000 offers and they are working as well. But obviously, I mean, the cost per cur, the customer is gonna be a little bit higher. There's not as much trust you can build with someone that. When it's truly evergreen because you're not having that back and forth conversation that you could be having if it's live. So, you would have to test it out and see what feels better. One of the things that I really love, we did, we're in a launch right now for the next two hours actually. It was started a week ago and it's been something been building up to for quite a while. It's. Well, anyhow, it's irrelevant which, service it is and how we normally offer that. But one of the things that I find is no matter how much I say, Hey, I don't take sales calls for this because of the price point. And so please use the q and a. I will stay as long until the very, very last person has asked the question, I'm gonna be here. I'm not going anywhere. use this time. But still, people have questions because people watch on the replay and they, and so I often get them on an email and I actually really enjoy getting the money email because my adrenaline is less, intense. And I love My way of responding is not text. I open a loom. I do camera recording only, and I will answer their question and I'll answer it from all different, and often I don't have enough context. So I'll be like, and if this is the case, then consider this and if this is, so it's a very full answer. They're rarely less than five minute looms. I love doing that and it gets such a great response from people and I feel within a model where we have to reach more people to get more people in at the very, very top so that, the required number filter down to the bottom AK a funnel regardless of how you wanna talk about it. I think all marketing is a funnel of sorts because of the visibility to conversion rate. It is an inverted pyramid and, inverted triangle, sorry. I also find it's incredibly helpful to get those, those questions. After the fact when I can explore them more fully with a loom video, because oftentimes I can then take their question and my, the transcript and my response and then develop that into an email that we can then share. Because if that person has had a question, then undoubtedly there are multiple other people with the same question, and then we incorporate it into the FAQ section of that page, and then I think about how that becomes an email in our next launch. Then I think about how that becomes a podcast episode, and so I feel. I, feel a little bit icky about doing the live broadcast thing, even though it's come from a place of practicality. But what I'm trying to hybridize this at the moment with. You ask your questions here's a link to an Airtable form. If anything comes up for you, submit a question. I will send you a personalized link back within 24 hours. No problem at all, because it has benefits on both sides and the conversion rate to those looms of feedback that I sent are super high actually, because. funnily enough, people love this wallpaper and they always get a comment back about the wallpaper and, the fact that they've had something one-to-one, which replaces all the small talk and that forms a lot of a sales call. yeah, and I know you've said a, a sales call is the simplest way to sell, and I get that. I, I agree. but there is this thing about that messy middle where we are trying to scale up and, and what we do with it. And I think. There is lots of people sell a perfect solution. I like that you are still playing around with it and recommending thing, different things for different people depending on the situation.'cause I don't think it's cut and dry. And I think, I love that you mention how your body reacts to it because, and without getting really woo,'cause honestly that's not me, but I have learnt to really. Understand, because I work with somebody who's a lot more woo than me. I've learned to appreciate the concept of energy and when it's depleting me and when it's, enriching me, and I'm now more attuned to that. And a lot of my work is around the things that deplete me. How can we make that. Not a thing or more of a systemized thing versus the things that I love doing, leaning into them, doing more of it. And a lot of that is one-to-one interaction, so it actually works out really well for our clients. yeah, thoughts on that. you, I know you've, you mentioned about the price point that works well with the roadmap, with the, the roadmap funnel, but I know you've experimented with low ticket offers as well that are actually really profitable, contrary to what a lot of people say about them. So what, in your opinion, makes a difference between a low ticket funnel that works and won that flops? Yeah, There's so many ways to distinguish if something is working, in terms of a low ticket offer and mm-hmm. I'll break it down into two ways. and this will actually illustrate so perfectly what I knew, what I thought I knew before, and what I knew in the last year and a half. what most people will think and low ticket. A lot of my clients. Very excited about load ticket funnels in general. So often when they go into my program, Roadmap Funnel Sprint, where we teach the roadmap funnel, they often, they either go through one of my roadmap trainings where I, you know, obviously I do what I teach, but then I also have load ticket offers as well. Bought it. So some people go through the load ticket offer, they're like, this experience was amazing. the way I do it is, is they really like it and then they're like, why can't I just do that? say this first, doing a low ticket funnel that's profitable is way more work than doing something like the roadmap funnel. Yeah. So for a lot of these people who are like, oh my God, this is so exciting. I want that experience too. It's like, I want you to have this experience and let's build it one step at a time, and it's probably not where you should start. So. Two ways to look at if something is successful in terms of a low ticket, offer. So the first way to look at it is, is it profitable in the front end? If you have nothing to sell on the back end, you need to make sure it's profitable in the front end. And that is something that most people struggle with because they're either charging too much for their low ticket offers, because ego is like, I created this amazing thing and I need to charge way more for it. for the easiest way to be profitable. With low ticket from my experience, is to charge under$50 for these little tiny offers, unless you're an advanced mark, marketer, advanced advertiser, and you have a bigger audience.'cause then more of that warm audience is gonna see a higher price offer. So that's the first thing. That also, typically you're gonna probably pay double what the cost of the, low ticket offer is in order to acquire the customer. Mm-hmm. So you can need to make sure that you have really solid order bumps, really solid upsells, and you're tracking every single part of the process so you can optimize it over time. Are you gonna be profitable right away? If you're doing it on your own, you've never done it before, probably not, you're probably gonna lose a lot of money, which is why it's so important, I think, to, know how to set this up in the best way. But even then, it might take a little bit of time to get it to be profitable. so that's the first thing is as you're running ads, by the way, I do personally run quite a bit of paid ads. So for low ticket offers, that's the best flow paid, add to a low ticket offer, in order to get enough. Visits through the page and therefore get enough customers and stuff like that. So not the easiest thing to be profitable. All of my low ticket funnels are profitable. That's my benchmark. If something is not profitable in the front end, to me, I'm not happy with that. Hmm. And I always aim to have at least 1.3. 1.3. ROAS is minimum. I always aim for 1.5 to two. More on the front end only. Can I ask, I interrupt really quickly. So by front end you mean at the, within that very initial period? Yes. Where they, you advertise them, they purchase the low ticket offer and they are a client in there. So 1.3 around that mark there. You're, you are, we're not talking about attribution for things that they buy into later down the line. Correct. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, so that's how I personally, that's how I prefer to do things because to me, yeah. It's way too stressful. If I'm, if you're breaking even, you're actually losing money because you're paying payment processing fees. Some people might ask for refunds, there's it's not good. So if you have a 1.3 roas, you're probably really breaking even. We really look at it that way. So. That's the, that's the first way to consider if it's okay, is this successful? So for a long time I had a very quote unquote successful low ticket offer that was very profitable on the front end. I think it was on average a. 2.1 roas and I ran it for over a year and it was really easy. This was before ads did the update this year, and it was I had two ads that were getting me all the fricking customers. It was so awesome. Mm. And I was well, this is easy. this is great. Did I have something to buy in the backend? Yes. Did anybody buy that thing on the backend? No. Besides. But I was making money in the front end, so it was this is fine. And some people will be okay with that, but eventually that offer is not gonna work the same way. Yes. So that's the bare minimum. But you also need to look at it as to is it profitable on the backend? And this is where I bring back the roadmap funnel because all of my low ticket offers that are profitable on the backend without doing sales calls, also incorporate a roadmap training. And not only are they getting the little thing that they signed up for, we always integrate a version. It's not the same exact version. It's a little bit of an adaptive version of the roadmap training. And that training is the thing that's moving people into the backend offer at two,$3,000 or whatever the price point is. That's actually the element that makes the low ticket offer also successful on the backend. Mm-hmm. So then you turn, whatever the, if, if you're getting a. 1.3 ROAS on the front end. Now that's turning into five roas or 10 roas or something Mm. Because you have also the roadmap funnel as a part of it. So that's where, when I, when I tell my clients when they work with me, it's we build up on everything you're doing. You can't jump to one thing'cause you're going to do the other thing anyway if you wanna get back in sales. But, that's how I look at it in terms of all of that. Do you know what I love about this? I had noted down a question earlier about the dance between demand and scaling supply, and you mentioned, That often people come in and the the wrong kind of people are the ones who wanna make life easier. I think the really important takeout is here from this, from what you've just described around low ticket offers, is the easier you want your life, the more you are gonna have to work and be prepared to risk stuff upfront, right? no different from any other financial bet, for want of a better word that you will make. It's every financial investment, what is your risk? Tolerance, what is your risk profile? Because low ticket offers Yes. They look cheap to the person buying it. No, they're not cheap for the person running it. And you've really got to think, we've tried them before and it is not for the faint hearted it is. Yeah. Not enjoyable. And I would much, much rather sell one-to-one than I would something that costs less than 50 pounds. It's. Yeah, if I tell you our lowest low ticket offer was 3 99. It was a book and, That saying Cost of fortune. And also it is really hard, especially in a small to medium sized business, really hard to do attribution further down the line, we know the people listening, to add some more caveats into this because it's something I've experienced. We know that people who find. Me and my company will either purchase immediately or around a year down the line. But the problem is that means you've got to run the experiment for at least a year to see the true attribution of somebody who came in through that funnel. And, maybe they bought something at 3 99, it costs you 30 quid, and then they went on to buy something else. But unless you're willing to run the ad for that whole period of time, and you've got some way of attributing it, some way of tracking it. which it can be really challenging honestly, despite how sophisticated conversion pixels are. And all of the other jazz, we ended up buying some massively overkill software that was really for, retail businesses to the extent that the, the firm behind it was you don't really have a lot, you don't have enough sales compared to our other clients. You sure you want this? And I was I need to know, I need to know so I know where to put my money. I, I cannot stand. Not that I don't have, I do have risk tolerance, but in order to, to take the risk, I need to know that I'm, I'm claiming the data unable to then analyze it and work with it. Otherwise, it's well that's what's the expression? Bad money after good. why would you continue through to throw money at something if you're not gonna be able to learn anything? And it's back to Thomas Edison isn't it, as well? This kind of idea of. Learning and not failing, but learning, learning, learning, learning until you arrive at something that is a good fit. I'm kind of curious about this because we also use ads. I love ads because it's one of the more scalable ways of reaching more people. it's not necessarily. Especially with the clients that I work with, the thing that I would recommend they do first, but it is something that we do encourage them to do at certain stages in business. And it's certainly something that we were nine years in before we really started kind of spending a lot more money on. But I'm curious, what is your approach to using paid ads sustainably, especially when platforms like meta changed overnight? And you mentioned your experience with that recently. Is it. monitoring a ROAS of 1.3 to make sure you're covering your costs and your overheads, or is there something else that you should be considering? I know that's a hu it's a huge question, but top line. Hmm. I will, I'll first say this when I run ads. I only look at, am I profitable on the ad spend period. Yeah. Because I also make sales organically. I also make sales for my warm audience and, and stuff like that. that is what I use to pay for everything else. I don't even cons because otherwise I'll be way too discouraged to run ads. that's the first thing I'll kind of mentioned. But in terms of weathering the storm, I guess, meta always. Does updates and, and things like that. there is something that happened. They, they rolled out the new update in July of 2025. And it was interesting'cause I didn't realize that it happened, but I was running ads. June was wildly profitable. Amazing. July was actually also wildly profitable and amazing. And then literally as early as August 1st, it was like. I was losing much money and I was spending a lot of money, yeah, per day. I was losing hundreds of dollars every day on these ads, and I'm like, what on earth is happening? it was out of nowhere. that's one of the things that might happen. I will say that it doesn't happen. That often when you have ads that you've proven to work. But these were ads that have been running for such a long time that I was like, they're my tried and true. they're gonna Yeah. you know it, right? it's not new. Yeah. Yeah. sometimes I will say this, if something is not going well and I'm I try different things. I do find that turning things off for a little while and then reassessing and then turning things back on. A lot of times that does reset what was happening and suddenly things are profitable again. Sometimes that break does help, which is, I don't know what the scientific reasoning for this is interesting, but that has happened to me multiple times. If I'm like, okay, this has run its course. It seems like I don't know what's going on. Yeah, pause it for a month. Maybe a month and a half, bring it back even with the same exact ads and it's crushing it again and I'll run it again for, for multiple months and stuff like that. very interesting. But the other way to make it kind of. Not as stressful as running multiple campaigns at the same time. instead of only focusing on one low ticket offer and writing everything on one ticket, low ticket offer, I would have two or three different low ticket funnels that I'm writing with ads. I would also have a roadmap for. Funnel that I'm running. I always try to have multiple things so that if one thing stops working for whatever reason, I still have other ones that pick up the slack and it gives me, so I don't have to be quite as reactive about it. And I can still in general be okay, things are happening. And from that end too, this is why it is important. I've experienced some people who are running ads and they spend so much money on ads. And goes back to the attribution aspect that we, that you mentioned. There's been so many people that are very, very successful and their theory, their, their approach is we run the ad, we go through the funnel. If they don't buy, they're out of our email list. And it's, to me, it's like, why would you do this? a massive thing that I've actually done this year because I've healed from burnout. I was like, I can put more energy into my business organically. And when I say organically, I mean my email list, but. Being able to start monetizing your email list outside of what you're doing with ads. So I treat them as anything that I do with ads is come in to my world. Yeah. Go through the things initially, but then I'm doing my own thing that's completely separate from that. Whether it's new offers that I'm putting out there or I'm doing Yeah. You know, mini launches or whatever. So I'm able to make a good chunk of, most of my money should be made from that. And then if something is going wrong, I'm still fine. I'm not gonna lose money in my business. I'm still able to have whatever I need to sustain me to, to pay for everything. To pay for my mortgage. Yeah. To go into savings. all of that is still, taken care of. And then my ads are the support for everything else to keep that future, monetization and all these different things running. That is what came out. No, no, I think that's really helpful. And I definitely, my ads coaches has helped me to realize that yes, a rare ass of over one is ideal for peace of mind. And so you don't freak out and switch something off and then, end up losing the progress that you are making. But, that even though we don't have the ridiculous attribution software anymore, knowing that after 10 years in business, there is a period of time at which. People do purchase from us. So people coming into our world via ads, even if they don't purchase immediately, there is, there are a number of kind of proof points that they need to experience. And, they need to have heard me talk about different topics. They'll need to literally have heard me on the podcast. and these are now things that I, I really like this'cause it feels more sustainable. It feels like a bigger ecosystem. It feels less like, it's a. again, back to risk, an upfront risk and a, a, a fear that something isn't gonna work. And then, and then what do we do? It's there, it is frustrating initially to think there are so many different variables, but actually if you keep your eyes on the prize and think about how you can best be of service to people and get them to the place where they're working, in and on the thing that is right for them. I dunno, I found more peace with it, I think, through understanding that. The ads is an amazing way to get in front of new people, even if they aren't gonna purchase in a specific period of time. And I think it's been for somebody who's very impatient, I think it's been a really good lesson in patience and, and also a reminder of something that a boss said to me years and years ago, repeatedly, because it's my personality is Charlotte, it's a marathon and not a sprint. And I think sometimes when we're in our own businesses, and especially if they're small ones and you feel you feel quite alone. It can feel a bit like you're jumping from thing to thing because of your attention span, what you're capable of doing, what you can hold and, and work on. And I like this idea that this is something that fine, it's just profitable now, but there is so much room for improvement and here's what we're gonna do in month one and then month two and then, and actually I take peace from that. So, yeah, in the spirit of growing without hustle burnout, I think, I think learning to treat it as a marathon, not a sprint, and seeing how ads build into that for you. Because one thing's for sure, if you are, I guess the summary of what I'm trying to say is that if you've ever felt getting in front of new people is a challenge, ads will solve that problem and it allows you to move on to other problems, right? Because. You can trust meta to get you in front of the right, the right people or more people. yeah. But then speaking of ads and also about podcasts, when you and I first, spoke ahead of this podcast, we talked about running podcast ads for visibility. And what I was curious, what's excited you about the idea and, and how do you see it fitting into your own strategy? Oh yes, we talked about that. I have not done it because I haven't really been very active with my podcast. No, but I don't think that's a problem. And I feel like we talked about this. I feel like if you've got a few signature episodes that answer the key R of interest to your audience, I don't think it matters when they came out. Like our best performing podcast ad is a podcast episode I recorded two years ago. Oh wow. Okay. Very cool. Good to know. Yeah. What I really loved about it is something that is really valuable is, so again, going back to that big vision, not every single thing has to happen immediately, and especially if you already have some campaigns that are that more urgent, immediate. Response if in terms of a low, low to get funnel or going into Roadmap Funnel or something like that. those are amazing. And I do find that anytime that you can run ads for brand awareness for nurturing as well. Yeah. it improves the results of the other campaigns too, because people, especially with the update with, with ads that happened in, in August or July. What Meta is looking for is they're looking for ad sequences. They're really serving different ads to different people based on where they are and based on what they need to see. I don't know how they know these things, but you know, that's probably the creepy thing besides, I know when I look at. there's one company that's stalking me on Facebook and I love it that they stalk me because they have the most cool fricking ads and they're all different. Every single time I log into Facebook, it's an ad I haven't seen before and I'm so impressed. And it's a couch company. look at their couches once and now I'm well, now I want the couch. Now I know I'm buying my couch not right now because our couch is still fine. But what's cool about it is they're sharing different. Points of view, different angles, different things to kind of keep it on top of mind. And if you're only, especially for creators, it's a little different for e-commerce, it's different for creators if you can. Some people are gonna buy immediately because they're oh my gosh, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Yes. Other people are I don't know who this person is. I don't know if I can trust this person'cause they're telling me about the thing I wanna buy, but I don't know if I wanna buy it. So being able to. Have them be convinced on their own that oh my God, this person actually does know what they're talking about. Mm-hmm. The best way to do that is not by telling them, is by showing them and having them make that decision for themselves. And whether it's doing long form videos, as a part of the brand awareness. But what I really loved is, is the podcast aspect, because you had mentioned that it has more of that built in credibility and trust because you're going to something that. apple Podcasts, everyone knows what that is and has that trust. You mentioned that there are lower cost as well, which mm-hmm. Is always very exciting. And, even though I haven't filmed or done podcasts in a while, it is definitely easier to do an audio based piece of content than to do a video, yeah. As well. So all of these things, to me sounded really good. And I, I know a lot of people. Our podcast listeners. I'm not a podcast person personally'cause I don't, usually people I feel do it during commutes and, and stuff like that. I usually listen to audio books when I do that. but there was a time previously when, before I was. Doing more fiction where I was listening to a lot of podcasts and a lot of nonfiction and, and things like that. And back then it was you could really get to know someone by listening to them. You could really, I don't wanna say fall in love, but you can really feel immersed in that person's way of thinking and stuff like that. Yeah. and potentially if somebody's a podcast listener, they're listening to you all the way, unless you're super boring or something, versus in a video. There's other distractions that might be popping up. So there is something to be said about that. And to me, I don't have a lot of audio based things, so I'm not attracting a lot of those people right now. And I do think that it could be a good way to fill in the gap from the people I'm interacting. Yeah, I do think it's, it's so funny, we often lean towards the things that feel most comfortable to. how we absorb our content. I have this discussion with one of my clients all the time who's a long form written copy consumer, and I'm like, you are the only person I know who consume content like that in if a, you know, really long blog posts, transcript style thing. but I think in the age of Not accessibility in terms of how different people digest stuff, but an appreciation of the situation that people digest things in. And also the fact that if you've created one thing, if you created a video, in all likelihood, you already have audio, you already have copy. why not do all of the things then you have the opportunity to reach more people and Yeah, the, the podcast ads are so cheap. My experienceless than. Less than a cent per, click link click, which is nuts, yeah, it doesn't necessarily translate to downloads and it's hard to track that, because the metrics have a bit of a lag. But yeah, I do think it's such a great way in and it is such a trust builder and a micro commitment that doesn't even require you to exchange your email address for something. so in the age of the overwhelm of the lead magnet. it does feel like a good alternative. We work with a lot of clients on, building a podcast as an authority platform in our Authority Builder program, and with the idea that ads is one really scalable way, that then you can reach more, more of your audience, gain more visibility, pull more people through that know, like, and trust process, and hopefully then be having more sales conversations much further down the line because they tend to be. Very high priced services that take a long time to nurture somebody through to the commitment to purchase. so yeah, yeah. Something to consider for the people out there who maybe identify that price point. But anyhow, before we wrap up, can you tell me a bit more about who should come and find you and, and where they should find you? What they should come and see? personally, I wanna see the roadmap funnel, so I am gonna go check out that. Yeah. So, the best way to find me is on Instagram. I probably spend the most time there, so you can find me at Kamila von Redig and obviously my website and stuff like that. So I talk about the roadmap funnel in various ways. I actually, shockingly don't have a direct way where I talk about it. Usually I talk about it in a, various ways. I usually do a seasonal training where it's Combined with the roadmap where basically revealed the roadmap training process. So in the latter part of 2025, the training that we have is called the Peak buyer window, and that's where we talked about. Basically what the peak buyer window is, how to leverage it, how to use the roadmap training to launch during the peak buyer window, and also how to fill in the gap after you've done the launch with those ongoing sales. Yeah, so I found that that's the best way to, to communicate my program. In a little bit of a different way than like just direct, like what's the robot funnel, so far. But maybe I'll do a direct one at some point as well. But, for the more monster, if you go on my Instagram on, in the link in bio, there's a link to the peak buyer window and you can take a look and see that's all about. Amazing. Well, we will put that into the show notes and thank you so much for joining us, te I really appreciated your time and so enjoyed talking to you about all this stuff that interests me so much as well. Yeah. Thank you so much. I had a lot of fun. Great questions, and you're so much fun. Thank you.