Episode #3: Co-Regulation and Collective Liberation

Join Atif Choudhury and Pasha Marlowe for another whole-hearted conversation about neuroinclusion, including barriers in the workplace, how leaders can be co-regulators, and what intersectionality and astronauts can teach us about collective liberation. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back, everybody, to the Neuro Inclusion Conversations from Across the Pond and Beyond podcast. I'm Pasha Marlowe here with co-host Atif Chodery, and we are here on our third episode today. Hello, Atif. Um and we're feeling very much not only wholehearted as always and really excited for this conversation, but we were talking about how we were feeling a little bit maybe dysregulated or unregulated when we started. And we were talking about how we wanted to help each other co-regulate. And then we talked about how we could potentially invite the audience and the listeners to co-regulate with us. As I mentioned, I think leaders can co-regulate their teams by honoring nervous systems, and co-workers can honor uh the nervous systems by helping co-regulate their teams, just as families co-reg co-regulate each other in homes. And so when you when you brought that up, what how would you most like to self-regulate and co-regulate? What are your what are your favorite ways to well, that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I think um, like many of you listening, I don't actually know I need regulate until afterwards. Do you know? Like there's been a like a big flurry of things, and then afterwards, I realized, whoa, I was not calm. Do you know? And that's what we talk about when we're in the storm. That we it's not a good place, it's not an easy place. It's an easy thing for other people to observe. But we're in, you know, we're just swimming against the tide, as it were. And I didn't realize that I was uh so my father, I'll just say my father had a four of the weekend, he's 86. I love him dearly, and it was a shock to my system, you know, that he's 86 and he couldn't get back up. He's also like the silverback of I don't know if my brothers will ever watch this, but there's joy to that moment of he's the silverback of our lives and our family, and he's still and he always will be. But it's also that think of wow, he couldn't get back up, you know, and what does that mean? And you know, and he's fine, his vitals are fine. But I just found myself really just thinking about that a lot, and then speaking to Pasha, and just suddenly just blurting it all out, and I wasn't intending on that, and then I noticed Pasha's um really beautiful purple background and her top merging together, and they just looked really nice. They just I don't know, you guys can see it on screen. It's it's really perfectly matched, and I caught myself thinking, why am I doing this? Why am I just blurring it all out? So I guess what I'm saying is yeah, we all need regulating. Some of us with neurodiversity needs and ADHD and autism, of course, we know why we want to take that on more. But for all of us, we're all reacting to things.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So then I was thinking, Pasha's great at this work. And we talk a lot about central nervous systems. And so if I'm just calming mind down now, which I promise you folks is very, very different to where it was 20 minutes ago. Yeah, but if I'm just calming mine down, I think, and I'll stop here, that is there a call on this podcast, and I'd love to hear from people, would you like Pasha and I to start with each of these sessions with a purpose to self-regulate?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, yeah. Right. And perhaps beyond our conversation and our our tone of voice and our pace, we could do something more active, like a um, whether it's a a a prayer or a mantra or an affirmation, something like that. One of one of the phrases I come or quotes I come back to, or mantras I come back to, is may I be happy, healthy, safe, may I live with ease. May you, Atif, and all the listeners out there be happy, healthy, safe, and live with ease. And sometimes when I'm feeling very brave, I even extend that to people I am not in agreement with or in conflict with or do not at all understand. And that allows me to extend my compassion and and in in hopes to maybe, maybe somehow energetically they receive some of that that love as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Beautiful. Okay, so I think Pasha, I would love us to do that. I think I would love to just sit with your sincerity to do that each session. Maybe if there's a time and a space, maybe I won't might do one, but I think I think your voice and the energy and the femininity of it is really calming. So I'm gonna, you know, really give way to that and hopefully lean into it as much as possible. Um yeah, so please, yeah, would you do that every session? That's my ask.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I will, I will try. There will be times where where you will be, you know, probably in a in a calmer, more grounded place. But but yes, yes, we will I will definitely try that. Um which reminds me of the other conversation we were having as to how much people need this, how much people's nervous systems are feeling very challenged and and scattered and uh overstimulated right now. And one of the um current events that's happened over the last week is the the space shuttle landing, Artemis landing, and the crew coming back here and and talking about how much they love each other and how people were asking them, what did you what did you love most about being in space? And of course, people expected them to say, seeing the earth from afar, seeing the moon. And they said the camaraderie, the friendship, the connection, the relationships that we built as a crew. And then they came back and they were hugging on each other and just speaking so lovingly to each other, and especially the men speaking lovingly to each other was very impactful to people. And and so many people that I've talked to this week, uh, clients and even um people in the workplace that I work with have said how there was a bit of jealousy about it, that they that they wished that they had that connection, that they had that deep love with people. And one of the astronauts, Jeremy Hansen, heard people saying, Oh, I wish I I wish I had a team or a crew or a family like that. And he said, you know, if if you like what you see, look a little deeper because we are a reflection of you. We are you. And and how I interpreted that is that it is possible for all of us to open our hearts, to love fully, to to be, you know, uh wearing our hearts on our sleeve and um extend our ourselves a little bit more to to the world and those of us around to those around us. And um I just thought it was I just thought it was heartwarming. So I wanted to share that.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Beautiful. Look, we're not getting good news from America often enough. So let's never hold that back. You know, let's not hold that back. And and oh Cracky, it's beautiful to think that. I mean, I I um also reminded that you know one of the pilots is uh is a black man and he's you know, and and it wasn't that long ago when we heard the likes of Charlie Kirk and others saying, you know, if there's a black pilot, then gee, I hope he's uh what was it? Uh I hope he's qualified or whatever. And and you sort of think, yeah, we can see that and it can pain, it hurts, it hurts, it hurts anybody. But you then suddenly see that the greatest acts of human achievement just don't come with that much fear, they come with liberation and and and the ability to change because we see things that help us change, you know. I would really be fascinated with the Artemis crew of how you touch on men, and I think this is a really important bit for me personally because I'm in a men's group. I don't like calling it that. It's called the sacred hoop, and it's the sacred hoop between these men. But we talk of love regularly, and I've learned to use the word love when I referred to these men, and I realize how hard it was for me, even though I'd love them dearly. Again, I hope they're listening. Um now it's easy. But I remember in the beginning it was really hard for me to hear the word love from and uh and there's a quote from Tennessee Williams, which I'll share with you all, and I'll send it to Passion somehow we'll make it link to this. Okay, but it talks about life and friendships and love, but that the world is perpetually on fire. Yes, and that all we can do is save it with love, you know, and whether we're a painter, a friend, a lover, or just a son or a daughter, what we have to do is save each other from that burning building. And and you sort of think, what is it we choose to save? You know? It's amazing, huh? And so I I'm I'm gonna go back to you because I think Yeah, we are in touch with this conversation is is is strong, and we are watching the language of dehumanization quite often. When we those of you listening all to all of the podcasts, our central nervous systems are hurt and hit hard when dehumanization, even if if it's not about our own protected characteristics or characteristics rather, if it's not even about the things that we inhabit, but rather people that we love are affected by that affects us all.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So so America, yeah, Craike, is a place that's hurting a lot of folks about what is possible and what's not possible. Yes. But but here and and it's across the pond and beyond. But it's not like it's not like the UK doesn't do that too.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

No, but we're currently showing, you know, with Artemis what is possible with love, and with Trump what is possible with fear and hatred, uh, to the extreme. So yes. Um, one of the new words I've learned recently that I was sharing with you is um solostalgia, like nostalgia, but with soul nostalgia. And it was originally created uh related to climate change, like a like a longing for the earth as it was, or a homesickness for the earth as it was. But it but now I'm also hearing people use it as a a missing, a missing a portion of the way things were for me in my country. I I feel it becoming more and more challenging to find peace, safety, solace, and pride here in my country. I'm actually leaving the country on Thursday in a couple of days, uh uh traveling internationally to Switzerland because my son must paraglide in the Alps. You know, that's what he wants to do for his uh graduation from high school. And I there's a whole backstory to it that's really beautiful and lovely, but that's where I'm going. And when we travel now, I do not say I'm from the States. I say I'm from Canada. And I don't I don't like lying. But sometimes I do it for my just I'm embarrassed and I'm also scared because I I just don't I don't want to field the comments or the or the hate that that could come our way, which I which I would be understanding of. But anyhow, sometimes from for my safety and my family's safety, we say Canada.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, I don't blame me. I it reminds me beautifully of dear friendships with Canadians that I had traveling around Australia, and they would put the I they would have the Canadian maple leaf flag on there to specifically to distinguish themselves from from Americans, you know? I don't know if you did that, but it was a thing, right? Canadians and Canadian listeners really, I hope you um you've enjoyed this conversation, or you think we didn't do that. But I uh every Canadian said, look, we do this because we want to show that we're not Americans. Yes, and Crikey, isn't that a shame? Because Americans, some of the most important resistance to to to US tyranny around the world, comes from America. You know, some of the most creative responses to and it's not about Trump, right? Actually, it's about Bush to a certain extent. It was actually probably about Reagan, in some ways, it's about civil rights movements, it's about the constructs of slavery and what justified it and what didn't, and and the idea that Americans, be they black Americans, are fighting to teach, you know, Miley Viking said, as black people, it's our responsibility to teach this nation the very notion behind its own words. It's a big deal to say, you know, that all men are created equal. Well, how come we're still vote to vote? Um, it's a big deal. We're all everyone is freedom, and yet how come podcasters, be they alive or dead, can say black people are not good pilots and such and such. So in all of that stuff, yes, America is uh I guess it is a group of contradictions, but I want to really give thanks to the Americans who always resist this stuff, put themselves on the line. And they're not just black people, they're white Americans who they take risks and they say, not in my name. Um and some of them get on artifacts capitals.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yes, yes, yes, thankfully, some are in power and as well and are and are leaders in the country, but but the resistance is um not as not as loud and powerful as as it as it needs to be um to create the change we need to create, obviously. Um but yeah, and I'm wondering if people in the audience are like, and what does this have to do with neuroinclusion? But I always believe, and I know you agree with this, that the conversation about neuroinclusion has to include racism and ableism and sexism and intersectionality in general, and and that that um that if we don't include that, that it really kind of perpetuates the the stereotypes and the and the stigma, the the bias, the discrimination and oppression that's out there for for all people, uh including neurodivergent people.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Absolutely. Look, I mean, you know, I've gonna say it, I might have said it before, and that that without an intersectional understanding of neurodiversity, you know, how can we have a relevant understanding of neurodiversity? We can say, well, we understand it because of pathology or diagnosis, but that doesn't tell us what the impact is. If we say, well, we're here for supporting autistic people, great. But what does it mean for this individual? Um, and if race is part of that barrier, or structural barriers because misogyny is really hurting this young woman's life, or transphobia, then these are all parts of how neurodiversity becomes real and neurodivergency is welcomed. All of these things that play a mosaic role, right? But we're really birthing something that's messy but beautiful, like all good births. Messy and beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I hear you made the audience cry at the Neurodiversity and Business conference. And I'm curious what your core message was. I'm I can guess, but I wonder if you can share because something very much moved the audience to tears.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, thanks, Pasha. I wish I could remember. You know, like what did I say? Yeah, yeah, I know that was really lovely as well. There were folks from Lloyd's um staff that really said that as well. One of my joys of being me is that that happens a lot, and it really is exciting. But I never remember quite what I said, other than the sincerity of what I feel, you know, that we can, and I think I'm going back to it, is that that we're in a space where so much healing has to happen, and it excites me that leaders are doing it, it excites me that people listening to this are doing it, and it excites me that we're thinking about poverty and how that plays a role and who gets to participate in it. Um I think there has to be a moment of justice where we reconcile how many people were left just on the outside of these conversations, and how many people are still masking, and how many people in neurodiversity or businesses or workplaces try and change it. I really want to give a moment to JP Morgan because here's an American bank at a time when America is clawing back a lot of good innovations around civil justice, neurodiversity, disability, anti-racism. And JP Morgan sponsored the Neurodiversity and Business Conference in London. You know, and it did a good job. We had so many good folks, folks from JP Morgan, you know, big shout out to the the teams there. A big shout out to the people behind neurodiversity in business, um really are keeping this conversation going to say, look, it is in businesses that we get to change sometimes our economies, even our class. And what we're seeing in the UK, and I want to want to throw that back to the US, but in the UK, I'm now part of the Lord Mayor's project in London to bring neurodiversity to the square mile, the most important where the London stock exchange is, where corporations, where the Bank of England is, where these are the folks who really say we're gonna get behind neurodiversity in a big way. And I'm I'm asking this because A, it's an honor to be part of this work and to see neurodiversity thriving. But it's also in the backdrop of all these clawbacks that we've been seeing. So we're seeing on one hand, yes, I definitely think there are people who've taken away their sense of priority here, but there are others who are really stepped up. You know, and I I'm gonna throw that back to you, Pasha, is has where you're watching the big companies maybe challenge themselves, but are you watching other companies come forward and say no, not in my name, we're still caring, we're still here.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

I do. I have to admit that most of the companies I'm currently working with that are very much in alignment with neuroinclusion are not in the United States. However, um on a more local scale, not large companies, but I'm noticing in the smaller companies and specifically um organizations that are service-minded organizations that um in general just support mental health and well-being, I feel like they're still very much active in this conversation. And certainly in the ERGs and the small uh resource groups and employee groups and affinity groups, I'm seeing that not as much organization-wide as I did before, though. So I I feel like there is a lot of whether it's fear, hesitancy, alignment with our government now, or budgetary restrictions that are that are causing a bit of this stagnation right now. But um, but I believe the momentum will come back. It was there up until about a year and a half ago. I wonder what happened a year and a half ago. No, I'm just kidding. Um but but the momentum it's coincidental. Um but uh and you know that's a lot about courage or lack thereof, but I think it will come back. And so I'm I'm kind of I know I'm playing the long game here, but meanwhile, I'm working with anyone who's willing to to work with me and doing a lot uh internationally.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, yeah, and and look, Trump was able to claw back something in three months, and and like I said, it says probably a lot more about us than it said about him because there was no surprises for him. Yeah, but it was about well, how come we folded? Oh, and I and I I genuinely think no we didn't. I think some folks did, and some folks didn't, and I think that's that's my richness of taking this away this week and what neurodiversity celebration week has been about, but also recognizing you know it's been exciting to do neurodiversity in business in the middle of Easter. So many people were on holiday, perhaps, and yet they were. They became so many corporations and and plcs and as you were who rocked up for this, you know? And I still think what we've got to do is mature into a space, maybe in maybe I think when people are realizing okay, we've got to do more on autism, we've got to do more on ADHD, we've got particularly got to be ready to be versatile for the younger people. But what did that mean? Did it mean we've got to do diagnosis? Well no, because then that's gonna burn out. There'll there'll only be a certain amount of money for that. Does it mean we Gotta do a lot of workshops on understanding it, yeah. Maybe. But then what do we do when that's competing priorities? Where they say, Well, we want you to do more about domestic violence, we want you to do more about mental health, we want you to do more about, as you said, structural racism. So it all still goes back to I think the corporation world and the workplace world has to mature into holding each other's hands closely, prepare for some tight hugs, yeah, because the conversation is going to be about barriers. More barriers that become safer to talk about rather than labels that may have been okay to talk about two or three years ago, but might not be now. The question is, is that a backward step or a mature step?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, I I want both. I want both the you know, awareness, obviously, for ADHD, autism, domestic violence, mental health, everything out there. And I feel like what's happening now is it's it's becoming overwhelming and confusing to a lot of companies. And so when I talk to companies, rather than me specifically asking them to understand, because how could they, all of the different forms of neurodivergence? There's just, it's too much. Rather go with, you know, everybody has, every human has access needs, support needs, and sensory needs. And ask, ask people what their needs are. No labels required, no diagnosis or disclosure required. Can we start there? And to your point, what are the barriers to people being able to do the work that they want to do and need to do? And what are the barriers to access? What are the barriers to uh support? And I feel like if it's more general like that, one, it doesn't feel as overwhelming and confusing because language isn't, you know, it's just less, less complicated language and also the language that businesses and corporations understand because we have to use their language to communicate with them. Um, they're not, they don't need to be, you know, experts in ADHD or autism specifically, um, nor should they be. And and I feel like with that conversation, that umbrella of human needs and barriers, as well as human worth, that umbrella could encompass domestic violence and and racism and mental health and and everything. So I I don't know, that's that's usually where I where I land. And it and it tends to bring great relief in the room. So like, oh good, because I'm so confused by all these different terms. I'm so confused by all these different labels. Um and I'll just say one more thing that for example, Autism Awareness Month or ADHD Awareness Month, or, you know, all like Black History Month, I think these still need to exist because there are, you know, groups that are specifically marginalized and pathologized. But I feel like the conversation in the organizations maybe is too siloed right now and needs to broaden.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it needs more courage. Yeah. It needs more courage. Today is in the UK is men's mental health day.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

And you're not hearing much about it, really. That's interesting. Yeah, and and on one side, you could argue that men have many days. Uh, perhaps every day is a man's day. So I think that many people could agree with that. But actually, mental health is one of the things that men really struggle with. Yeah. And we we we do struggle to talk about it. Um and I think, yeah, really, I mean, you're right. I think we do have to have these different elements of celebration and recognition. I think we have to guard ourselves against watching these elements be used to to pit themselves against each other or systems of funding, you know, or even public relations acts to pit them against each other. We have to be very wary of that. Yes. Because there's a lot at stake when uh marginalized experiences are being pitted against somebody else's marginalized experience, you know? There's a lot at stake when neurodiversity gazants um anti-racism programs when you could be black and autistic, you know? Um or the legacy of folks saying, Well, I'm neurodivergent but not disabled. I said, Okay. But what did what does that mean? And and what is it we're saying for a person who may be saying, Well, I'm not here to talk about an identity of being a disabled person, but I am here to talk about disablement and the barriers I face. Yeah. Um I know in the podcast we talk a lot about collective liberation, and I think that I hope the journey of audiences listening to us will always keep that in mind that Pasha and I will always be trying to push the idea that we are in this world together and the marginalization of people cannot be addressed unless they themselves are able to tell us what their stories are and recognizing that their liberation is deeply connected to mine, it's deeply connected to yours, it's deeply connected to the audience. Um But we're not used to thinking about oppression in that way. We're more used to thinking about specific levels of oppression and how they how they deserve more attention versus others, you know? So I I wanna go back to you for a second, but I just recommend as well. Pasha, have you ever seen the pale blue dot or listened to Carl Sagin?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

I I think you mentioned that last time, and I wrote it down and I I looked up a little bit on it, but I but I haven't explored it enough. Because I I think it's a I think it's a beautiful uh you know reference and idea. And yes, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Well, no, it's okay. I mean it's just for the audience as well. We'll put this in the podcast as well. But it is, I'm going back to Artemis, you know, to see the whole of the moon. Yes. But I'm also thinking about the experiences of people when Carl Sachin talked about the pale blue dot and that little ray of sun sun, that every general, every leader, every murderer, every despot. But every conscious kind thought, every space in which a human being was welcomed and loved, is tied to that single pale blue dot. I recommend everyone because it's a photo, and I said that last week. Yeah. More relevant today, I guess, from Artemis' mission, that it changes people. And if all of us were to look at the idea of our liberations being connected to some tiny pale blue dot in a sea of stars, yes, we just see this tiny little pale blue dot, and that's us.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yes. And I agree. And and I was quite moved when I saw that picture, and I was quite moved seeing the photo, any photograph of Earth from afar makes me feel like collective liberation just makes sense, just feels just innately true. But I would imagine most people in the world have seen that photograph, even Trump. And so I'm curious as to what you think allows one person to see that photograph or any similar photograph and be moved by it and understand collective liberation versus somebody who who doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

What a question. Wow. How good is that? Um, I don't know. I I'm uh I'm a um I'm an Asian, you know, so I don't really go, hey, I'm English or I'm British or per se. I see that as a good thing. But I guess William getting at is if we are to be liberated, then we get to say we're from Earth. I'm from the Pale Blue Dot. Pasha, where are you from? You're from the Pale Blue Dot, right? Um and we don't we don't have to say we're Canadian or we're this, you know? We're from we're from um you know Panchilla, Pandora, it doesn't matter. We're just excited about being from a place that doesn't have to draw bridges up against other people's needs or realities or identities. I I I don't actually think that's a lot to ask for. And when people think yes, it is, I'm not so sure. It's not static. It's never been the same thing. If I'm to go to the where you are in Maine 300 years ago, well, what would I see? Would I see the people of Maine today? No. Geographically I won't, right? I'm gonna see native nation people out, you know? And so it's always changing. It's just the power doesn't change necessarily. But the people are always changing. The stories are always changing. And with it, there will always be people trying to control those narratives. But the ADHD folks, the autistic folks, the dyslexic folks, the neurodivergent or not neurodivergent, we feel it in our bodies. We resist these stories. Sorry, we resist this control. And sometimes we can't help but have a longing for these stories. You know, the soul astia as you've talked about. So we long for that safety, we long for that welcome, to say, yeah, it's okay. I identify maybe as more autistic than than American, or somebody might say that. I'd be like, wow, okay, that's your driver. But someone in the UK might say, Yeah, I identify as a Londoner more than a British person, which which works well for me. Yeah, even though I live in Brighton, but I identify as a Londoner, and I love that. Um and I've never said I'm British or English. I've never felt well when you say that. Um I don't know if brown people are listening, but I hope so. But that's big called We're losing you. Diaspora, diaspora days. We're too foreign for here. Okay. We we lost if it's lagging. Oh, okay. How about now?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah, technology lags because we're across the pond. Uh with uh you said, you know, tunnels and and oceans between us. So so sometimes technology lags. So we lost a little bit of that. You said um if brown people are listening, and I hope they do, and I hope they are.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Oh, yeah. So what I was saying was there's something in my mind about being diaspora, do you know? And I hope we can hear that. But that we're too foreign for here, but I'm also too foreign for there to go back home to my parents' land. So you're sort of too foreign to be any effing where, do you know? And and so you so you do look for a tribe, but that tribe isn't based on, oh, I'm British or I'm American, or your tribe is really about your values, do you know? And and in that sense, I'm gonna stop speaking because I think my internet's going. But my values, my values probably have more in kinship with people resisting, resisting Trumpism, resisting racism, who I maybe never met, hope to, have more in common with you, Pasha, than they do with people who live right next to me.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yes, I feel that as well. I feel most at home when I'm traveling, not in a particular country, but traveling on a train in any country surrounded by other people who are looking out the window. And I just think it just feels such a nice human connection with like with strangers on the train who are going, whether it's to work or holiday. And um I don't know, there's something just really m magical about that. I feel no, no other time do I feel so much a part of the world or alive. And I also like the idea of just moving um and seeing the landscape, obviously, of different places, but there's something about that. And so I I rather like that. And I in my own home, specifically in my own, interestingly, in my own neighborhood, in my own small town, which is in this state of Maine, I don't feel like I can fully be myself or fully be my best self or my most alive, unmasked self because of the sociopolitical scene mostly. Um but when I it's so interesting, you would think I'd feel less safe leaving and being amongst strangers, but I feel like there's an energy of some people, not all, but I feel like there's some people who have this, like you do, you know, resonate this loving, kind, gentle energy. And I feel like we can find that anywhere in the world. We if we attract ourselves to it and and you know, like match our vibrations to that. I I think that we can find those people wherever we go.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Um, okay, so for our next session, we should talk more about vibrations and perhaps nomads as well, right? I we've been traveling. I just want to I hope you can hear me. You can hear me okay? Okay. So we as people, we have lived in a house only in a the last hour of a 24-hour day. We have always been on the move. People, we have we forget that we have always been going to where there are pastures, where there is liberation, where there are people who welcome us and where they're and moving away from people who hunt us. And there was a time when people were once hunted, not by animals, but by other people. You could argue, and I'm sad to say that that's still the case in many parts of the world, still today, through different contexts. Yes. But as nomads, the ADHD brain, I'm finishing on this, and we'll plant the seed for next time, but god, it was welcomed. It was needed, it fed people, it welcomed people, it understood how fast we have to move, and it understood what we have to see. That ADHD brain, it was constantly changing our central nervous system. My central nervous system tells me when I'm being hunted, and sometimes it tells me a lie because it says it says you're still being hunted when I'm not. I'm not. So I need to look at it and go, ah, you keep me out of trouble and you keep me fed, I guess, and that's healthy. Um but actually you sometimes get overworked and you start telling me things that are just not true, you know, and that's when I realize I need to recognize that you this is my central nervous system, it is not who I am. So today I walk barefoot across the fields with my dog, and I felt comfortable, really comfortable. And I do that regularly when I realize. So for the audience, try to distinguish when is your central nervous system, which is there to help you, but is not there to be your friend, is there just to keep you alive. When is it not being your friend? What do you do about it? I think I want to keep checking in on this because when we were nomads, we needed this, but we're not nomads anymore. And so, what do we want to do about that?

SPEAKER_01 38:15

That was a beautiful uh callback to our original uh question of what regulates you. So you walk barefoot in the field with your dog when you need to uh regulate and connect. I this morning, and I tried to do it as much as possible, look at the sky before screen, like before I look at my phone to even know what time it is. I look outside. I usually see some form of a sunrise or colors in the sky. That helps me. Um, I try to, well, I always drink coffee and I try to drink it outside if it's over 40 degrees. Yeah. Um and I think you're right. I think we have to protect our nervous systems. And I think we need to not always believe our thoughts and the things that that that come to us. And and and I love the idea of not just people being able to co-regulate each other as we do here and and hopefully people do with the people they're surrounded with, but also that we can continue to reflect our worth and our brilliance back to each other when we forget.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yeah. Well, I well, I I I think that's a wonderful thing to end on today. Um, folks listening, I think Pasha's gonna, and I will occasionally, but I I I I'm just in awe of Pasha, so I'm just gonna say that each week we're gonna do a bit of a uh a recognition of our central nervous systems and just come into that space and then take on what we've always been saying is what is happening in the in the in across the pond from each other? What is it that's changing our systems and our mindsets and our sense of welcome? And what is it that's reinforcing it? And we'll do that every week, and and eventually, as this podcast grows momentum, we'll try to invite some guests to join us in these sessions as well. But for now, it's just enough that you're here and you're listening and you're with us in the background and hearing the intent that lives in our hearts. So it's enough for me. I just want to say thank you and and and close there from my side and and invite Fasha to do the closing and there and just.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I have nothing more to add. That was beautiful, and uh I look forward to the next time we can meet and gather and have this conversation again.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

So thank you. Bye bye. Bye.