How Women at Work can Leverage the Double-Bind with Lorraine Hamilton

In this episode of the Career Strategies for Women podcast, feminine leadership expert, Lorraine Hamilton, discuss the double-bind for women in the workplace.

Lorraine is a former engineer, voracious tea drinker and wannabe race car driver. She is also the founder of the Feminine Success AcceleratorTM and has spent the past 16 years coaching ambitious high-achieving women, writing books and mentoring hundreds of other coaches to greater freedom and success.

This led to her being hand-picked by the Emmy award winning media entrepreneur Natalie MacNeil to become Program Director at the 
cutting edge and global ICF accredited coach training provider Coaching Evolved. Never one to shy away from a challenge, she has recently run a phenomenally successful first TEDxKāpiti event and consistently gets out of her comfort zone performing stand-up comedy.

She believes that feminine leadership is what the world needs right now, and having previously led a team of engineers to create an award-winning culture, she knows a thing or two about it.

https://jjdigeronimo.com/38

Thank you for joining me ~ here are some other resources for you!

JJ's new book Seeking: https://www.amazon.com/Seeking-Findings-Energy-Sidestep-Self-Doubts/dp/B0BKQCWJ62

Join me live in my energy community: https://www.togetherweseek.online/

Visit my website for retreats and free resources: https://jjdigeronimo.com/

My energy podcast Together We Seek: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1923001

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello. Hello, it's JJ here and today I'm with Lorraine Hamilton.
She has done so much work with women in business and specifically
women in tech, so I'm so excited to have her here with us today. Hello
Lorraine.,
[00:00:13] Hi, JJ. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be
here with you.
[00:00:17] Well, I am too, and I have to say there are so many things we
could have discussed today, but one of the topics I really wanted to dive
into, something I hadn't really addressed yet. is really the double bind for
women. What is a double bind?
[00:00:30] Oh, thank you for asking me this question. I love talking about
this. So for me, the double bind is where women. Have to choose
whether or not to be likable or seen as competent. And we've all heard
the, the idea that women have to work twice as hard as men, and
particularly in tech space or in male dominated areas like business, that
they have to work twice as hard as men to be able to be seen as
competent.
[00:01:01] Yet we wanna do it in a way that is harmonious. So we wanna
be liked while we're doing it. And often those two things, the likability and
the being seen as competent, don't flow smoothly for many women. Or
the perception of them is not. Not how they would like to be perceived.
So for me, the double bind is this idea of being likable and working in
harmony or being seen as the competent, strong, effective women that
you are.
[00:01:35] That's interesting. And do most women recognize this?
[00:01:39] I think many women recognize it. I think that they may
recognize it in the way that they're just not being perceived in the way
that they want to be. Either they're being perceived as being really
effective and efficient. , but a bit of, a hard woman or you know, a strong
woman, , or that they're likable but not taken as seriously as they want to
be taken.

[00:02:03] Yeah, I can definitely see that. I can definitely see that. So
when you work with so many women, and I know you work with coaches
and you work with women in business, you know, what do you say to
women, whether it's the coach or the actual woman themselves, what do
you say to them? How do you even start working with this?
[00:02:21] If this is a scenario that's happening, how do you really make
it work for you?
[00:02:26] Yeah, I think we have to be really honest about where we are
in this moment in history. There is a lot of work that is going on towards
becoming, , an equitable , , and having a quality in the workplace, in
business, um, across the board, but we are not there yet. And so getting
really honest about.
[00:02:48] Where we are and how all of our conditioning is playing in this
scenario, I think is the first start, is it is a place to start. So what I mean
by that is that we all have elements of conditioning that say that women
should be. and women should be, um, likable and women should be
pleasant and women shouldn't be strong leaders and they shouldn't be
at the top of the tree.
[00:03:20] We are, even though we don't want it to be that way. There
are still remnants. Of that, that history that we are all living with, because
it wasn't that long ago that that was not the case. So we're all bringing
these judgments and perceptions into our workplace scenarios. So the
first thing is to really recognize it and then recognize how it's playing in
your particular situation.
[00:03:48] So for me, when I was an engineer, it was. I thought I was on
an equal playing field. I thought, you know what? I'm the only female
engineer in this organization, but that's okay. I don't, I don't need special
treatment. I'm being treated like one of the boys, but that was the
problem. Because I didn't need to be treated like one of the boys.
[00:04:08] I needed to be treated like me, so I was trying to be
something that I wasn't. And no matter what I did, if I worked twice as
hard as the guys, I still wasn't getting the recognition that they were
getting from my manager. And if I tried to connect with my manager, he
saw me as a weak engineer. So it wasn't anything that I was doing.

[00:04:29] It was. I was trying to do all of the things, but the fact was that
the person who had the power in that dynamic was running with this
conditioning of oh and unconsciously because the guy was, you know,
my, my manager was a really, really lovely man, but he had, he was
running this program of conditioning where I didn't fit into his model, and,
and he didn't quite know what to do with. So the first thing is really to
understand the territory that you are in, and then also recognize how we
all, as people right now, determine and make judgment. Because we all
do it, even if we don't want to. And as a coach, you know, the first thing
that we do is suspend judgment. But we have to recognize that we don't
always suspend judgment in every situation.
[00:05:24] So recognizing that we are making judgments very quickly on
whether or not we like someone, we find them likable before we
determine their competency . And we make those judgments very
quickly. So we make the likability judgments fast, and then it, it takes a
little bit longer for us to, decipher whether or not we determine someone
to be competent.
[00:05:50] So by recognizing that, and that's for us all across the board,
by recognizing that. Then we can use it to our advantage and go, Okay,
so we have to present as being likable first. So being a little bit friendly,
being less direct than maybe some of our male counterparts in our
communications, but then we can put effort into, demonstrating our
competence.
[00:06:13] And that's how we work with what is, how it is right now with
this double bind..
[00:06:20] Hmm. That's so good. You know? I know we can all say,
probably listening that we've experienced this, we knew there was some
subliminal messaging or unconscious bias at some point in our career
where we're on a team, we're killing ourselves and we're not getting
nearly the recognition. I think most women that I talk to would easily say
yes to that.
[00:06:41] So for your first step is recognizing where you're at and what
group you're in. You know, I often tell women, you know, if you're in a
group that doesn't promote women, you might need to get in a new.
Because you really often do have to find managers that see the benefit
in diverse voice, diverse talent, diverse input, whatever you may call it,

because those are the people that I often see are pushing people to the
next level.
[00:07:05] Yeah, 100%. And I did another interview recently where, the
host had asked, Me, how do we work with the fact that there are fewer
mentors for women in, in tech leadership , and in leadership in general. ,
and I said, Well, the way to get more mentors that are operating as
feminine leaders, because let's be clear that a lot of our, feminine
leaders right now have got to that position by acting like men. So we
want women who are achieving those roles, those leadership positions,
by embracing and embodying all that makes them feminine. , so to
become a feminine leader and a feminine mentor, we need to become
one. So we need to, to really be embodying. All of our strengths, all of
our intuition, all of the things that makes us, , really, really powerful as
women.
[00:08:02] And also securing those roles and those positions, and that's
how we will change it. But that takes time. , and , it's great that
organizations are now saying that they need to have a quota of, of
gender diversity and their leadership roles in their C-suite. It's more
complicated than that. That's great and, and I'm glad that we're having
those conversations, but we also have to have the right women in those
roles and women that are demonstrating and embodying what it is to be
feminine and strong.
[00:08:34] Yeah, and I think for some people it might be this and that
being like, Oh gosh, no. I mean, I can't tell you how many keynotes I've
done. With men and women in the room. And women definitely do not
wanna bring the attention to their gender because they work so hard to
be seen as equals. And I think for many women, It's hard.
[00:08:52] It really is hard. In fact, in my second book, I put a project
allocation chart together for managers and leaders because they too are
trying to figure out how do I promote more diversity. But what we found
is that women don't get the same level of sponsorship. They don't get
the same type of projects.
[00:09:09] They have less p and l, they have less head count and they
have less executive exposure. So, Add all of that up. They just are
working on projects that don't have as big of impact. So if you are a
leader looking to promote more women, you often have to look at what
projects you're allocating to the people on your team to make sure

they're getting that executive exposure, that p and l experience and, uh,
sponsor.
[00:09:34] Yeah, this is a really interesting scenario as well because I
was talking to, , the leader of, uh, Women's Global exports in New
Zealand Trade and Enterprise a few weeks back, and she was
describing exactly that, that. women are not attracting as much capital
investment as men to the tune of 1.7 times. So they get 1.7 times less
capital investment than men.
[00:09:59] And the reason that the research from New Zealand Trade
and Enterprise, has shared is that. It's because women are perceived to
be less ambitious than men. But in the unpicking of that research, what
we actually believe to be true is that women are less confident than men.
And that's something that I certainly see in my work with women is that
they are less likely to.
[00:10:28] Really big ambitious goals. Some, some women do, but on a
whole, women are less likely to set really big ambitious goals because of
the fear of scrutiny that they will have if they don't succeed. So women
tend to set goals that they know they can achieve rather than setting
these great big, lofty, ambitious goals and the perception that that's
having in the market.
[00:10:53] Hmm. That's so interesting. That's so interesting. You know, ,
I've got my listeners know I'm coming out with my third book Seeking,
and you know, the way I start the book is we leave half of our knowing at
the door when you're not tapping into your intuition. When you have self-
talk that daunts your choices and you feel like you have to be perfect
before you get started on new things, we often hold ourselves back in
ways that really could benefit not only our teams organizations, but
maybe even the planet.
[00:11:23] And so I agree with you that we do need to empower more
women to step in before they're ready. And really step in big because
why not? I mean, look at where we're at right now in the workplace and
on the planet. We definitely need more women at more tables.
[00:11:39] Absolutely. And I love that that is the, the principles of your
book, JJ, because , the way that I describe my coaching program, the
Feminine Success Accelerator, is that it is changing the world. By
helping women become wildly successful without compromising who

they are. So very much aligned that we need to empower women to be
themselves, to be their whole selves.
[00:12:02] And as you say, , they're leaving so much behind by
disconnecting their intellect and their mindset from their deep intuition
and. That's where the magic happens. That's where your confidence is.
That's where your resilience is. That's where you can be really sure of
your steps and following your callings instead of relying on external
feedback all of the time, which is how we're brought up.
[00:12:30] How the majority of us are brought up, we're told, we're not
told what to do, we're told how to be from a very early age. So, so really
reconnecting deep into your intuition into what makes you, you. Is where
your confidence lies. And that's, that's really the starting point for
changing the world. , and that may sound very, , grand, but it's true.
[00:12:56] It's absolutely true. We, we can start it by you becoming your
authentic, bold, genuine, and wildly successful self.
[00:13:07] I love that, Lorraine. I love it. And you probably have her,
Lorraine is actually living in New Zealand, so that's very exciting that
she's joining us all the way from New Zealand. So as we round this out,
if this double bind exists where we can't be competent and effective, if
we're nice, , and people are experiencing that within their teams or even
their organizations, how can they leverage that to benefit their career?
[00:13:30] Uh, I think. Recognizing that it exists. And as you said, very
much unconsciously, there's a number of people who are running with
this unconscious bias. So recognizing that the people who are either the
conduits or the blocks to your next level success could have this running
unconsciously that they're not. Out to block you, that they're not trying to
block you, that they might not even be aware that they have this
conditioning running and recognizing that, okay, so let me appeal to
them, which I don't love. I don't love that we need to play this game, but
we are where we are right now and this is how we change it.. So
recognizing that I can connect so that they make that instant judgment of
I am likable and therefore I am safe.
[00:14:23] And then demonstrating how competent you really are. And
that is how I would say leverage your awareness that the double bind
exists and that you might be in its clutches, in certain situations. And.

Use it to your advantage. So recognize that we make quick judgements
and likability and that we make slower judgments and competency.
[00:14:48] And one other aspect of this that is important is that. We also
make quick judgments. We change our judgment on likability quite
quickly as well, but it would take a number of mistakes for that
competency to be eroded once you've built it.
[00:15:09] Hmm. That's good to know. So take a few risks. I mean, we
all know about. Well, some of us know, and I talk about it all the time, is
that self-efficacy is learned and you can only build or grow or expand
your self-efficacy. When you take on projects before you're a hundred
percent ready, that is when you're actually going to fill your self-efficacy
bucket.
[00:15:28] So what you're saying is that that's a, that you should do that
more often because once you build up the credibility of impact in your
group or in your organization, you have some bandwidth or some
runway to take on things before you're. So that you can actually help
yourself and potentially even, , work towards your next
[00:15:48] Yeah, being uncomfortable is not fatal.
[00:15:51] Yes, Being uncomfortable is not fatal. I love that, Lorraine. So
tell us a little bit about where we can find you and more importantly, what
are you working on next.
[00:16:01] Yeah, thank you. , so you can find me@lorrainehamilton.net. ,
and if you wanna dive into a little bit more about what we've been talking
about, you can also jump into upperlimitbreakthrough.com. And I've got
a resource that expands on some of the things that we've been talking
about today and also, My seven steps in my Authentic Impact blueprint,
which is really the backbone of the work that I do with women.
[00:16:29] , and that leads me onto what I am doing and what I'm
building, which is the Feminine Success Accelerator. , I love working
with women on undoing a lot of the conditioning and really building
unshakeable confidence and clarity on their next steps, their callings,
and helping them become wildly successful.

[00:16:53] So if you wanna learn more about that, then jump in, get the
upper limit breakthrough.com resource, and , I'd love to connect with
you..
[00:17:01] That is wonderful, and I think just having these conversations
more openly is such a treasure because, you know, being 30 years in
the working environment, I feel like it's just been the last five years that
we've really been exposing. Not only the fears, but the challenges that
women are experiencing.
[00:17:19] And it's not just about hiring more women or promoting more
women. There really is a psychology that's necessary to decouple what's
been holding back and empower us for what is
[00:17:30] Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you highlight that we are
essentially at the beginning of this work. , and it's not gonna happen.
Overnight. So accept where we are right now. And, and let's dig in and,
and really change the world. And the, the beautiful thing about changing
these systems and changing the world is that the way to do it is by you
being you a hundred percent and being really successful.
[00:17:55] That's what I love about it.
[00:17:56] Yeah, and it makes us have to be a little bit vulnerable, not
having everything figured out, but you know, doing it in a way that is
more heartfelt and really brings more joy in some respects to our lives
because we've been grinding for so long and we all know that grinding
mentality is not working.
[00:18:16] Exactly, Exactly. There is a way to be harmonious in the
process, and that is by being in harmony with yourself and. Not feeling
that self conflict that a lot of women are experiencing right now as they
try and navigate the work landscape as it is.
[00:18:34] That is so true. I love it. Well, this has been an awesome.
Awesome discussion, Lorraine. I look forward to staying in touch, and for
all of you, I hope you will check out Lorrainehamilton.net when you get a
chance for all the work that Lorraine is working on now to really help
women reach the peak of their potential in the workplace.
[00:18:51] So thank you, Lorraine, for joining us.

[00:18:53] so much, JJ.