Mind & Matter
Whether food, drugs or ideas, what you consume influences who you become. Learn directly from the best scientists & thinkers alive today about how your mind-body reacts to what you feed it.
The weekly M&M podcast features conversations with the most interesting scientists, thinkers, and technology entrepreneurs alive today.
Not medical advice.
At M&M, we are interested in trying to figure out how things work, not affirming our existing beliefs. We prefer consulting primary rather than secondary sources and independent rather than institutional voices. If we encounter uncomfortable truths or the evidence suggests unfashionable ideas may be valid, so be it.
As the host, my aim is to help you better understand how the body & mind work by curating & synthesizing information in a way that yields science-based insights that you can choose to use or disregard in your own life. Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
I am motivated to connect the dots and distill general principles from what I learn, preferring to ask questions and play devil’s advocate to debating or incessantly pushing my own viewpoint.
My beliefs:
- Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
- All knowledge is provisional and we must work hard to prevent ourselves from becoming attached to our favorite ideas & preferred conclusions.
- Wisdom comes from an iterative, trial-and-error process of learning and unlearning. Letting go of pre-conceived notions can be painful, but pain is information.
Sometimes modern discoveries teach us we must unlearn received wisdom. Other times, modern information overload & historical chauvinism cause us to forget ancient wisdom which stills applies. The framework for learning that I embody is inspired by three Ancient Greek maxims inscribed in the Temple of Apollo at Delphi:
- “Γνῶθι σεαυτόν” (Know thyself)
- “Μηδὲν ἄγαν” (Nothing in excess)
- “Ἐγγύα πάρα δ Ἄτα” (Certainty brings insanity)
Mind & Matter
Scarring, Fibrosis, Oxidative Stress, and Psilocybin & Aging | Louise Hecker | 252
Aging, tissue repair, and the longevity benefits of psilocin.
Episode Summary: Dr. Louise Hecker discusses her research on tissue repair and regeneration, explaining how fibroblasts drive wound healing by forming scar tissue but fail to resolve properly with age, leading to fibrotic diseases like pulmonary fibrosis and liver cirrhosis; they discuss aging hallmarks such as oxidative stress and telomere shortening, and highlight Hecker's study showing psilocybin's active metabolite, psilocin, extends cellular lifespan in lab cultures by reducing oxidants and preserving telomeres, while monthly doses in aged mice improved appearance and survival rates.
About the guest: Louise Hecker, PhD is an Associate Professor of Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, specializing in repair and regeneration processes, particularly in aging and fibrotic diseases.
Discussion Points:
- Fibroblasts are dormant cells that activate during injury to pull wounds closed and form scars, then de-differentiate or die; aging impairs this, causing persistent scarring and disease.
- Aging reduces the body's regenerative capacity; different organs vary in repair efficiency, with skin healing better than heart tissue.
- Oxidative stress, like "rust" in the body, accumulates with age due to imbalanced reactive oxygen species production and antioxidant defenses, contributing to cellular damage.
- Telomeres act as protective DNA caps that shorten with cell divisions, serving as a hallmark of biological aging; sirtuins are master regulators influencing aging processes.
- Hecker's in vitro study showed psilocin dose-dependently extended fibroblast lifespan by 29-50%, lowering oxidative stress below young cell levels and preserving telomeres.
- In aged mice (equivalent to 60-65 human years), monthly high-dose psilocybin (15 mg/kg) led to healthier appearance, regrown fur, and 80% survival when controls reached 50% mortality after 10 months.
- Psilocybin's effects may stem from serotonin receptors expressed in many cell types beyond the brain, suggesting broader anti-aging potential; future work explores mechanisms, optimal dosing, and applications for age-related diseases.
- Fungi like magic mushrooms represent an under-explored "kingdom" for medicine, with psilocybin's durable effects hinting at systemic impacts on aging.
Reference Paper:
- Study: Psilocybin treatment extends cellular lifespan and improves survival of aged mice
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