Mind & Matter
Whether food, drugs or ideas, what you consume influences who you become. Learn directly from the best scientists & thinkers alive today about how your mind-body reacts to what you feed it.
The weekly M&M podcast features conversations with the most interesting scientists, thinkers, and technology entrepreneurs alive today.
Not medical advice.
At M&M, we are interested in trying to figure out how things work, not affirming our existing beliefs. We prefer consulting primary rather than secondary sources and independent rather than institutional voices. If we encounter uncomfortable truths or the evidence suggests unfashionable ideas may be valid, so be it.
As the host, my aim is to help you better understand how the body & mind work by curating & synthesizing information in a way that yields science-based insights that you can choose to use or disregard in your own life. Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
I am motivated to connect the dots and distill general principles from what I learn, preferring to ask questions and play devil’s advocate to debating or incessantly pushing my own viewpoint.
My beliefs:
- Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
- All knowledge is provisional and we must work hard to prevent ourselves from becoming attached to our favorite ideas & preferred conclusions.
- Wisdom comes from an iterative, trial-and-error process of learning and unlearning. Letting go of pre-conceived notions can be painful, but pain is information.
Sometimes modern discoveries teach us we must unlearn received wisdom. Other times, modern information overload & historical chauvinism cause us to forget ancient wisdom which stills applies. The framework for learning that I embody is inspired by three Ancient Greek maxims inscribed in the Temple of Apollo at Delphi:
- “Γνῶθι σεαυτόν” (Know thyself)
- “Μηδὲν ἄγαν” (Nothing in excess)
- “Ἐγγύα πάρα δ Ἄτα” (Certainty brings insanity)
Mind & Matter
Maternal Obesity, Immune System, Fatty Liver Disease & Epigenetics | Elvira Mass | 253
How maternal obesity epigenetically reprograms liver metabolism in offspring, predisposing them to metabolic disease.
Episode Summary: Dr. Elvira Mass talks about macrophages, specialized immune cells that vary by tissue and play crucial roles beyond fighting infections, such as supporting organ function; Kupffer cells (liver macrophages) and how maternal obesity during pregnancy reprograms these cells in offspring, leading to fatty liver disease, fibrosis, and even cancer later in life, based on mouse studies showing epigenetic and metabolic shifts like increased glycolysis, with insights into developmental windows, nutritional mismatches, and broader implications for human health.
About the guest: Elvira Mass, PhD, is a Professor of Developmental Immunology at the University of Bonn in Germany, where her lab focuses on the development and function of macrophages in various tissues.
Discussion Points:
- Macrophages are diverse, tissue-specific cells that develop from embryonic precursors, performing unique tasks like providing growth factors in organs.
- Kupffer cells in the liver monitor blood from the gut and are exposed to maternal nutrients during fetal development.
- Maternal obesity (induced in mice via high-fat diets) programs offspring Kupffer cells epigenetically, leading to fatty liver in newborns and progression to diseases like cancer, even on normal diets.
- A "nutritional mismatch" between in utero high-fat exposure and postnatal normal diets worsens liver issues, as cells are "prepared" for excess high-fat intake but face scarcity.
- Key mechanism: Reprogrammed Kupffer cells overproduce apolipoproteins, driving excess lipid uptake in liver cells (hepatocytes), linked to transcription factor HIF-1α and a shift to inefficient glycolysis.
- Offspring from obese mothers show sex differences (males affected earlier) and persistent changes.
- Human parallels: Rising childhood fatty liver (once rare and tied to alcoholism) correlates with maternal obesity; studies like Dutch Hunger Winter show early gestational disruptions cause lifelong issues.
- Broader factors: Microbiome changes, specific fatty acids, and environmental toxins like microplastics may also reprogram macrophages; diets in studies vary beyond fat content, affecting results.
- Advice: Maintain consistent healthy habits pre- and during pregnancy; avoid sudden diet shifts, as developmental windows are critical for long-lived cells like Kupffer cells.
Reference Paper:
- Study: Kupffer cell programming by
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