How to Hire Right (the First Time!)

73. Are you new to hiring or have been doing it for some time but it always seems to be a miss? In today's episode, Sevana and Tiffany go over what you need to have in place at your company BEFORE you hire so you have a greater success of hiring right, the first time and keep those good hires!

References:

NETFLIX company culture values:

1. Freedom and Responsibility

The idea is to hire high-performing individuals and trust them to do their best work without micromanagement. This includes allowing employees to make decisions typically reserved for management and having flexible vacation policies, where employees can take time off without strict tracking, assuming their work is accomplished.

2. The Keeper Test

Managers regularly ask themselves whether they would fight to keep an employee. If the answer is no, the company provides a generous severance package to the employee.

3. Radical Honesty and Transparency

This radical honesty is aimed at continuous improvement and growth. Feedback is given openly and directly, whether it pertains to performance, the viability of ideas, or company strategies. Moreover, transparency is practiced company-wide, with employees having access to information traditionally reserved for upper management in other companies, including strategic decisions and financials.

4. No Tolerance for Brilliant Jerks

The idea is that no matter how talented someone might be, if they cannot fit into the culture of teamwork and respect, they cannot stay at the company.

5. Focus on Innovation

By removing most controls, such as expense approvals and strict vacation policies, Netflix aims to encourage risk-taking and creativity.

6. Global and Inclusive Culture

The company strives to maintain its core cultural principles while also respecting and incorporating the diversity of its global workforce.

7. Evolution Over Time

The company continuously refines its policies and practices to suit its growing size and changing dynamics.

**************************** About BBSB - We are two business owners with two very different perspectives on building business, and the business behind that in order to achieve your goals. One of us built to sell, and will continue on the serial entrepreneur path, which means your focus and drive should include very particular tools and tips in order to achieve your goal. The other, is building a generational business, one that can go on long after she’s let go of the wheel. This type of business also requires very specific tools and platforms to achieve this goal. Both women have been successful in their own right, but in honesty - haven’t scratched the surface! Sponsorship Opportunities - Email us here: thebusinessbehindsmallbusiness@gmail.com Website - Check out our website! https://www.thebusinessbehindsmallbusiness.com Notice - As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases. These earnings contribute towards the costs of creating this podcast and we greatly appreciate your support! Disclaimer - We are NOT licensed financial experts, nor do we give financial advice. Anything we share with you here on our podcast, whether it be a personal experience or submission, or advice/tips that have worked for us, or that we believe would work for you should not be viewed as either financial, business, or tax advice. We ask for you to do your research, have open and honest conversations with your company’s own support providers and make decisions based upon that. Throughout this broadcast we will share our knowledge and give suggestions and hope you will receive them as part of your overall research to better your own company.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi everyone. Thank you for listening to our podcast. I thought I would like to spice it up a little bit. You want to spice it up today? Just a touch. Don't fight to spice it up today. Hello. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Um Tiffany and I'm Mrs.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Dalfire, right now. Tiffany and I give our all to this podcast, as you can see, with curating information, researching platforms, and creating a show with the best up-to-date information that we can. We have a vested interest in the growth and health of your business and hope you feel the same way about us. Would you like to produce a show? Yeah, yeah, you would. All you have to do is email us at the businessbehindsmallbusiness at gmail.com to express your interest, and we will share with you all of the marketing opportunities you will get in exchange. Please support us so that we can continue supporting you. And with that, please welcome to our show, The Business Behind Small Business. Whether you're staying or selling, we're here to remind you that just because you own a business does not mean you are a business owner. Hate to break it to you. We are your hosts, Savannah Stone and Tiffany Kao, sharing the more finite details of entrepreneurship, revealing the dots between startup and success. No one gets to a million without getting getting their knees dirty. There's a lot of business behind small business, so let's get to it. I think that's gonna be my thing now. Let's get to it. Like like Dora the Explorer. Let's go. You gotta be watching this to know what I'm doing. I'm just kind of yee.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

That's yeah, that's that's enticement for you to watch our video.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Okay, so this is an episode that um this is an episode from our first season in 2021 that we thought we needed to revisit. Update. Yeah, we need to update it. So when we first aired this episode, the world really was a different place. It's incredible how much things changed between 2019 and 22 and then 22 to 24. Um, feelings about employment, feelings about the culture within a company, and the way people view work and in general has all changed, even from just two years ago. Uh so since at that time we shared tips and advice and discussed pain points, um, much of what we discussed had to do with the environment at that time. So we thought it would be good for us to revisit this episode and update our tips, advice, and experience to hopefully help you hire right the first time, every time. And match it to 2024. Yes. But before we begin, please note our disclaimer. This is available in both our show notes and on our website and should be referred to before and or after this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

All right, let's talk about hiring. Well, you know, I just I think about like 2020, was it 2021 when we did the episode? Yes. Like I think about it, and it was just such a different like environment. Like we were, were we still on lockdown? Or was yes, we were. Yeah, we were on lockdown, everybody was working remotely, everybody's freaking out. Like employers were freaking out about their employees working remotely. Employees were like, um, well, I know parents were up to their eyeballs with like their kids learning remote learning from from at home, and they're trying to keep up with their jobs, and everything and then there was an unbelievable amount of Zoom calls. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

When I was looking at the script, I saw so much about masks in there that I was like, Yeah, I I feel like it was all a blur, but I I think the world didn't completely open up until 22.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Like in my not really for everyone, like the masses, I feel like there were you know early adopters of it, of course, but I think 22, maybe I think some people would even say it wasn't until the beginning of 23 till everything was back to normal per se. Because then we had that wave of COVID, like at the end of 22. Anyway, so it's kind of interesting to see it all kind of time capsuled in like one episode because that was so like live at that time. And then now here we are in 2024 where things are normal-ish, yeah. Um, but it certainly just has changed from from then.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, yeah, because people's minds have totally changed. I I feel like people felt one way when they were stuck in their homes, and then they were like uncaged animals doing everything. Everyone was like, let's party every day or whatever, whatever mindset after the release. Yeah, so that was a different mindset, and then there was the please don't ask me to go out, please don't ask me to come in, please don't people were like, I just want to stay at my home. You know, that mindset.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

So it's it's really interesting how much we've changed. I was more of please, I not another Zoom call. Can we just meet in person? Because this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

And I'm the opposite. Yeah, I'm like, please let's not meet in person because I do not want to get up.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I don't want to get up. Yeah, some people got really comfortable and used to being at home. But um, I think the one thing I think that came out of COVID, at least with my observation, and I don't know how scientific this is or anything like that, but I think people, you know, really took a hard look about what's important in their lives, right? What once you don't have the freedom to go out, once you don't have the freedom to not wear a mask, once you don't have the freedom to go into work, you know, all these things, like it made everybody reflect as to how important their time is and how it's being spent. And I think because of that, then we had the great resonation and then quiet quitting and all these. Quiet firing and whatever, quiet promotions. I'm sure there's something in there about that too. Um, but um there was a lot of of all of that, and I think what still came out was I think people still really started, you know, really taking to heart what they want to do with their lives. Yeah, yeah. They valued their happiness much more now. Yeah, they started really reflecting on what is the work I'm doing because I'm spending so much time at work. This is how I'm living my life, and this is how I want to continue living my life, right? So um, personally, I don't think that's a bad thing, but I do think that in 21 and 22 and even in 23, there was a lot of knee-jerk reaction, which is why we had so many of these great periods of times and waves of things. But now that we're kind of getting back to a little bit more stability, I think that change is not going away anytime soon. I think people are really looking really closely at the job they're accepting and whether or not that job is worth their time of their life to commit to. Right?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

And if it's and if it's a job that they're not too happy with or are finding some other ways for happy. Well, we're gonna talk about all of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah. And so retention really starts at the beginning. Um, when you start to hire, that's where retention begins. Because once you start interviewing, once you start recruiting and you interview, your employees or your future employees are starting to get a first impression of you and your business. So that's where it all starts, is with that. Um, so I'm gonna talk a little bit more about things you want to get together before you start hiring. I think you'll talk more about the hiring and retention part, which is you know the heart of what we're talking about today. So I see this very often, even with people who have been in business for a long time. If you're not aware of how it works when you source and recruit, you oftentimes think that to hire somebody, that's all you do. You just put an ad out, somebody responds to the ad, they come and interview, and you're like, This is how much I'm gonna pay you, and they're like, all right, cool. And then we work, that's it. Yeah, that is not how good hiring is supposed to happen and should happen. And really, that's not how these companies are like these big successful companies are doing it. It's just not telling you, tiny little business owner, that that's what's needed, right? And so we're going to actually unveil that a bit for you to again not scare you out of hiring somebody, but for you to be prepared so you can be successful in hiring. Right. All right, so I broke it down to five, five main core things that you want to keep in mind. One is comp, of course, pay structure and pay pack like benefit package, because that's all part of compensation. Two is handbooks and policies. So your employee handbook and what your company policies are. This is important because you're basically um telling your employees or sharing with them what are the rules of the game when they're working for you. Um, three is onboarding. So, how are you gonna set them up for success once you hire them? And we'll go into why you want to think about it now before you start hiring versus panicking after they say yes, maybe. Right. Or just not doing anything, which is what a lot of owners do, is they just do nothing. And they're like, What do you mean? You're a grown adult, you can go figure it out. Uh fourth is culture. So, what environment will them they be working in and how do they fit in to contribute to your culture? And a five is performance evaluation process. How would they be evaluated, meaning what is expected of them, and what is the path of progression in their career in your company? Sounds sounds heavy. Yeah. It's really not that very doable. It's a one-time setup. Once you have it for most of these things, like you can hire the second, third, fourth, tenth, whatever. It's that first one where people go in completely unaware. Then they never do any of this, even at the fifth employee and tenth employee, and they're wondering why they're putting out fires all the time. Right, right. So I'm gonna go into how do you actually get these things together. Well, actually, I'm gonna go into why you need to get this stuff done before you hire, right? Because here's the thing people are really smart these days. If you hire people, they can sense that you don't have your shit together. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

I mean, it's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And um, if you hire people, and like I said, you don't have these things already together, eventually retention, which is what the key of today's, you know, talk is, is going to be a problem. Right. You're just not going to be able to retain people in the long run. And you got to remember that your job offer, your job position, this job your employee these employees are taking on, it affects their livelihood. So, you know, you want to be able to, well, to be quite honest, you want people not just to say yes to anything you offer them, because that's a red flag right there. But you want people to be really thoughtful when they're in these interview process. You want them to choose to accept your job offer because then they'll stick with you longer throughout. It's weird to say it this way, but it's kind of like dating.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Uh oh. It it is, but it is kind of like dating. Like you guys are both kind of sussing each other out.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

You want to make sure you're not kind of like eyeing each other out of the interview, going, are you really my match? Do I want to stick with you for a long time?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah, because when you look at it, like successful dating, successful marriages have a lot to do with the kind of help of with healthy partnership. And a lot of ways you're an employee employer is also based on trust and partnership. Yeah. How good you how good you guys can work as work together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Exactly. And while you're interviewing them, like you said, they're interviewing you. And you want people like that. Because again, if somebody just says yes to everything, there's a level of desperatism there that you should feel like it's a little not a great idea, right? So what happens is they'll start asking you really intelligent questions about your culture, about the job, about the expectations. And if you don't have any of that ready, you may miss out on a really good hire. Yeah. This is why you want it to be ready before you start recruiting. So you actually have answers to those questions. Okay, so now we're gonna go over how do you get those five things together. So this is the part you want to pay attention to because this is how you're gonna solve that problem, right? So compensation and pay. Uh, you don't have to guess, guys. And don't go out there and just ask the next five people what they think pay should be, right? There's actual statistics and pollings and surveys that are done. There are data that are aggregated for you, for you to see what is the pay for the position in the industry in your location. There is no guessing that needs to be done. Right. So uh tools like ZipRecruiter, Indeed, Glassdoor, Celery.com, all these, you may have to pay a little bit something, but that's okay. Yeah. All I mean, just think about the information you guessed. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

It's kind of worth it.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, all these will tell you kind of what is the normal pay out there for what experience for what this position is. And if you can't find exactly what you need, hire a recruiting company or HR specialist. They have access to special tools that can tell you exactly that what other people are being paid.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So you can then decide what do you want your pay to be now that you know what everybody else is doing. And that's that's really powerful. Um, and to be clear, compensation doesn't mean just like like salary pay. It also means benefits, it also means uh just whatever perks you have, right? So just you want to think about all of that. Um, the second thing is handbook or policies. Okay, first of all, yes, there are templates online. Now, handbooks and policies aren't just about letting the employees know the rules of the game. It's actually more than that. It's about compliance with labor laws and also about protecting you as the employer. So there's a lot more into a handbook than just pulling a template off online and be like, oh, I'm gonna fill in the blanks and this is what I'm gonna get my employees to sign. Right. Um, so if you're gonna modify it, at least have an expert look over it. So some kind of HR specialist, somebody to look over to make sure you have everything as you need in there. Um, if it's not a friend, then hire somebody. It's totally worth it. And if you're planning on running payroll, because you're gonna need a company to run pay for, please do not DIY yourself. No. Okay, and I'm not I'm not a hundred and tax accounts can cancel me. I'm not 100% subscribing to the fact that tax accounts can run it for you either. No. Right? Um, so I prefer like a platform like ADP, Paychecks, Gusto, any one of those, you know, local, regional QuickBooks, Halo City, whatever, right? Um, have a payroll company do the payroll for you, and most of the times they'll have somebody that is an HRS specialist that will specifically just put together your handbook for you as part of the you know payroll package payroll package. And that is just as good too.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

And oftentimes they will also pay automatically pay your um taxes as well. Yeah. Well, that's why you want it up that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

That's why you want a payroll company. Yeah, so you want a full service payroll company. Yeah, they they can set it up now. A mess with taxes. That's certainly not payroll tax. No, because they may take a while to come back to you about your income tax, but payroll tax is fast and it is relentless. You will get lots of mail and collection calls once you do not you miss that and penalties for fees. So do not mess with payroll taxes. Yes. All right, the third thing is onboarding process. So, how do you get together your onboarding process? Now, this is probably more on you as the owner than anything else, especially if you're a small business, because only you know kind of what does the employee need to know in order to be successful in the position that you've created for them and what you want them to do. And then after you decide on that, then you need to decide on the best method of delivery. Is that video? Is that PowerPoint? Is that classroom? Is it one-on-one? Is it a combination of those? Is it a combination of all of those things? Yeah, you got to decide what's the best, most effective method of communication with that. Now, there's no surefire way, there's no template in anybody's onboarding process. Every company is literally different in how you onboard. And you need a different onboarding process depending on probably the level that you're hiring for, too.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, or department, if you have a different department, exactly. You know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

So this is where I feel like if you get an HR consultant, they're incredibly valuable for you here because they can really help shape you the onboarding process. And this is really a you know, once you get a position and you get largely done, you tweak it a little bit for everybody that comes in, but then you're done, right? That's the same onboarding process you want to repeat with every one of your employees because you want them to all have the same messaging. Right. So uh that I would say that if you're not sure how you want to do it, then I would hire somebody to help you kind of figure that one out. Uh, culture. This one's just tricky. Uh this one is so hard. So um the question is what is the culture you want to build in your business? You know, what's the environment you want your employees to work in and you want them to actually represent? Yep. Uh, this is incredibly tricky because here's the gist of it. If you're not clear and you're not intentional about it, it gets created without you. With or without you. It's just gonna happen. And that's where we run into a lot of uh businesses, I feel like, where they have a toxic uh culture. It's usually because, I mean, not that not that the tone from the top doesn't matter, they're probably the ones creating it as well, but oftentimes it's because somebody isn't intentionally trying to create this culture and the employees have just gone amok and try to create themselves, which is probably not something that you were looking forward to and not something that you wanted. So, culture is definitely uh a little tricky to get right. Now, the interesting part is that even if you're by yourself and you're a one-person team, you still have a culture. It's just your personality.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I mean, that's basically what culture is it's uh a personality that has been amplified. Your personality amplified.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Unless you intentionally create a culture that is solely for your business, and then your business has a personality which is then amplified into your culture, right? And that's where it gets hard. People don't understand that because if you don't do that, then it's just your personality amplified. That's right. Yeah. So culture is created the minute you decide to go into business. So either you wake up to the fact of what your current culture is and then decide what you want to do about it, or like we said, it's gonna end up creating themselves and it may not end up what you want it to be. Um, and again, this is one of those things is that if you're not good at this, you've never done it before, hire somebody to do it with you because you don't want to mess around with this, nor do you want to ignore it. Right. Especially once you hire. HR is the theme here. Yeah, that's true. All right, and the last but not least is performance evaluation. So why this is so key is this is really the alignment of expectation that is the key to your employee success. So you being clear and what you expect from them helps them know where they're supposed to put their efforts. Right. Right? And then being transparent on how their performance will be evaluated will actually guide them on where to put their focus on. This is incredibly important. And as an employer, I think you owe it to your employee to get this part right. And this is the part that most people do not do, they just don't do it. They're just kind of like, oh, just start working, and then I will tell you how I feel. Maybe. I mean, would you want to work in an environment like that?

unknown 18:19

Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

No. Sounds a little bit, you know, a little shifty there. Um, and then also not only um what you expect from them, but also communicate what they're gonna be evaluated on as well as when and how they're gonna be evaluated. So, again, not whenever I feel like it, but maybe every quarter or every year you have an actual formal sit-down. I am a big believer of constant feedback, right? So nobody should be shocked and surprised when you're not happy with their performance or they're not doing what they should be doing because you decide to save up all your feedback until the end of the year. That is not how it's supposed to work. But it is good to have actual formal sit-downs and check-ins along the way so you can formally present the evaluation, you can talk about performance, so it becomes a conversation. Now, again, this is this is kind of hard. It is a soft skill that you have to train at. I know my HR consultant kicked my butt to make sure that I understood how this works. But you know, if you're not willing to train in it or you're just not that type of person, then again, this is where an HR consultant is great. They can come in and they can facilitate these performance evaluations for you as well as set up the structure for you. And this is something you really want to tell the employees you want to hire. And it also makes them feel like you know what's going on. Makes them feel a little safer to say yes to your job offer. Yep. Um, so let's round out the five things that we just discussed, and then we're gonna kick it over to Savannah to actually talk about the uh hiring and the retention of your employees. So it's compensation, which includes compensation and pay, it's your handbook and company policies, it's onboarding uh process, four things is culture, and last but not least is performance evaluation process. Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

All right, over to you. All right, so I'm going to talk a little more about uh the details of hiring and then some ideas on how to retain your employees and how to make them feel how they can meet, how they can feel your culture. Especially it's really hard when you have a bigger business, or if you have a business where people are working in different places, um, or if they travel a lot, or if you're remote. It's really difficult to create a culture in that manner when people aren't all in the same place. So uh I know we're talking a lot about culture, but culture really is at the core of retainment.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Uh your people need to feel good about where they work, whether or not they are working right next to you. So uh when you do the hiring, and I'm gonna I'm gonna share what it is that I do when I hire. Uh so one of the things that we do when we hire is we have a three-month startup. You start off as a junior, if you will. Uh you shadow someone else, uh, or someone else shadows you uh with the trust that you know what you're doing, you know what you're doing. But also within those first things, you know this when you are being interviewed. You know that there's going to be three-month a three-month ramp-up. You know that there's going to be uh a lot of training in the beginning. These are all things that we talk about during the interview process because as she mentioned, not only are you interviewing them, they are also interviewing you. They want to know that is this something that I want to do? Is this going to be worth my time? So during the interview process, we do ask them is this something that you think you'll be okay with? Look, we do background checks, we do proficiency tests, we do all of these things. These are all questions we ask in the pre screen. Are these things that you are willing to do? Yeah. And if they say no, then all right, that's on to the next one. Not a problem. If you need a job like right now. That would be a reason to say no. Or if whatever, for whatever reason. It's a whole bunch of things. And that's why we get it out in the first pre-screen phone call. And if you say no, I don't have a problem with that, then we move on to the next interview, which is a face-to-face or most more so we do a Google Meet. So that's that's what my face to face is really. And then we start to ask a little bit more about, you know, a little bit more about their skills and their expertise. You know, like a regular I have questions that are for the pre-screen. I have preset questions for the interview, also have preset questions for the different positions. So excuse me. So you want to make sure that you have preset questions and aren't just asking questions off the cuff. You will forget things. And the reason why I say that is I know a lot of people do not have preset questions.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Well, you also want preset questions because you want to be consistent in the questions you ask candidates. Otherwise, you can't do an apples to apples match because asking different questions to different people.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

And if and and when I say you, I don't mean you. I mean somebody else. I mean your hiring team. Yeah. To be honest, I don't know that you yourself should be the one hiring, doing the hiring. Perhaps you, as the owner, should be involved in the last interview, certainly not in the pre-screen or in the first interview.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

It does take a lot of time too. So it's really no need for you to do it on your own, especially if you've hired a company to do it for you. But it's a matter of preference. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

But I also kind of feel like you do set a tone when with the interview process. So if you you are the owner and you are doing the interviews, this is going to, and hey, if you are a really small business, then that's what you are. But it might signal to the person that they're going to be working for a very small company that might not have all the answers for them.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, and then the other thing is just make sure you understand what you're putting out there, like you said, right? Now, if you're looking for somebody who likes working with small business, you want somebody scrappy, you want them to know that this is going to be a you know a small but mighty team, then okay, go ahead and do the interview yourself. Just know what you're putting out there because it is like dating. They're getting to know you as you're getting to know them. So everything is a f everything is an impression. So be aware of what kind of impression you're putting out there.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

And as a business owner, it's okay to not know all of the answers. You but you should know the answers of how your company is run. So if someone is asking you a question about, well, what do you do in this situation or what would I do in this situation, you should know the answer to that. So if your company has experienced a surge in employment or a surge in business and your processes haven't been able to keep up, I highly suggest that you either pause your search or if you haven't started your search yet, then update your processes to ensure that your processes are ready to go for the person that you are hiring. And your hiring, and when I say processes, I don't just mean the processes of your company. I mean your hiring processes as well. So it's important that the message uh in your core, your vision is articulated the same by your hiring team, by your HR, and by you. You all say all everybody has to say the same thing. When a candidate is interviewing with you, as we say, and we keep saying, they're measuring you just as much as you are measuring them. So when they ask a question about processes or about culture and your company, the message or answer should be the same, regardless of who's conducting the interview. Okay, so speaking of which, uh for your hiring team, it's important that uh everyone goes through the same hiring process that goes for the the candidate you got off of Indeed and your neighbor's son who just graduated college. I know a lot of businesses who say, Oh, I know him, I'll just I'll just hire him in. No, no, no, no, no. If you have a multi-step hiring process, everyone should go through that multi-step hiring process. So a hot multi-step hiring process should should have, if not all of these, then most of these, which is the pre-screen, the first interview, a second interview, potential third interview, proficiency tests, uh according to whatever department or whatever field it is that they're going to be, whatever, whatever um, whatever necessary for them. Yeah, whatever role it is they're gonna have. There should be a background check. There should be uh references. I like to do three references. I also uh when we hire on, we also send them a questionnaire to get a better sense of who they are as a person, to so that I can better match them with a client to try to set them up for success. This is something that teachers talk about all the time. This is something I've heard from my kids as teachers a lot. I'm setting you up for success. Well, that's what you should be doing with your employees as well, all of your candidates. So everyone should be hired in the same way. And also, if they're not hired the same way, you cannot uh measure the quality of the hire. So, you know, just keep it the same for everyone. Um, of course, you want to have someone appropriately skilled for the position, but you know, that's not all you're doing. You have created a culture in your company, yes. But whether you did that intentionally or not, if you like what you've got, you have to hire a person that's going to match your culture. So um if by sharing what you if by looking on the uh on the um uh resume, this person looks amazing. But you interview with them and you get the sense, trust your gut. Trust your gut. Because you may end up hiring someone who is ridiculously experienced, but does not match the culture of your company. And not only will that hurt the retention of that person that you just hired, it may affect the retention of other people that that person works with. Because if they're the kind of person who enjoys gossiping or enjoys bad mouthing, they're not gonna have a problem doing it to the person, doing it with the person who is sitting right next to them. So this is not about just the retention of the one person that you hired. This is about the retention of all the people that are working in your company. So uh speaking uh speaking of candidates, don't think that only the candidates that you reach out to are the ones that are interested. Know that some people are passive, they might have passive personalities. And some people believe that the hiring person should reach out to them. Uh so uh there are no hard and fast rules in that. Take a look at all of the applications and reach out to the ones that really speak to you. I don't mean like physically or or literally. I mean the ones that you you feel really good about.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Building, I would say, is to add to that, it's just you you gotta follow up. Yeah, okay. Like these, I mean, they're interviewing elsewhere too. So if you find somebody good, don't sit on it for a week. Just at least follow up and touch in to let them know that you're still interested and you're still going through your evaluation process. That way they can consider that. Because maybe if they really hit it off with you and they really want a job with you, but they're getting offers from somewhere else because they've gone through interview processes before you, you may lose out on them because they felt like you ghost to them because you never reached back out to them and never followed up.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Or maybe they're holding out on you and they just lost the opportunity to get a better job from someone else when you called them finally and said, sorry, we pass on that. Yeah, but yeah. That's not nice. Just be respectful. It goes both ways. Um, lastly, you want to build a team that's gonna last. So don't discount who you already have. If you have an employee that could shift to a new position if they have certain skills, consider hiring internally as well. Um, or maybe you can split responsibilities between persons to act on their strengths. Flexibility in the workplace is more important now than it has ever been. People are so stressed out now that with nearly every living cost having almost doubled. So do what you can to make them feel like they can have one solid foot in the world you've created and one solid foot in the world that they want to live in. So uh before we move on to the raw truth, we want you to be a part of our conversation and let us know what you want to hear. Send us questions or comments to our email, the businessbehind small business at gmail.com, to ask questions related to our show or just let us know how much you love us. We want to hear that too. We want to give you what you want to learn about. So, raw truth. Um, as I said uh during my interviewing process, um, I I know that um, well, since we last aired this episode in 2021, I personally changed everything about my hiring process. How because the environment changed? Totally. But before I get into it, I don't want to speak over you. So why don't you know?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

The only raw truth I would say is that, you know, when I was when I was hiring, you know, I had all the things ready, right? Like, especially like what we said, right? I had all the things ready. And after a while, it just became easier because you're just hiring more, and like you you just you just get in a role, you understand how this stuff works. But so I will tell you probably what other people will tell you too that has done a lot of hiring, even probably more so than me, um, will say that you're still gonna b get a bad dud. Okay. Every once definitely. Yeah, you still will. Somebody that'll make it through like flying colors through the interview process, and then when they, you know, when the you know rubber meets the road and they actually have to perform because you've hired them, uh, they crap out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You still will. So it's like, and that's not a reflection on you. The idea of having all this ready is really to make sure you have the best opportunity to find a good hire, doesn't always mean it's gonna shield you from the bad one because somebody's gonna slip through. And you know, personality tests and all this, like they'll still figure it out, figure out a way through. So um, I've certainly had that experience too, where one of my employees, you know, was went through the interview, I did all the reference checks, did all of the things, everybody gave them glowing reviews, uh, did wonderful for about a year or so, and then cropped up. Right? And then you're just like, Well, can't see that coming. Um, so just know that that that's just something that that can happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I feel like you should forgive yourself because oftentimes you're going to think that, oh man, what could I have done differently? Oh, what did I what did I do? But don't blame yourself.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

And just know people will turn over too, right? I mean, even some of my happiest employees that were really happy with their job had a life change. They had to move out of state or they had to move out of country, and things change. And unfortunately, you're sad to see them go, they're sad to go. But you know, don't take that as a you didn't do a good enough job. It just is people's life change, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

So um, I'm just gonna go through my hiring process again and then some of the things that I do for retention. Sure. Uh, so one of the things or rather, we do the pre pre-screen, get it out of the way of what it is you're going to be going through in order to work for us. And if you're cool with the whole rigmarole, then awesome. Let's move on to the first interview. During the first interview, we ask a lot more um technical questions based on the job itself. Uh, second interview is usually done with me on it. Um, we don't generally get to a third interview unless we really can't decide between two candidates. Um, uh, usually I talk to them about what the job itself is going to um what it what it pertains to, what you're gonna be doing. And hey, are you okay with this? Are you okay with this? Is a lot what I a lot of what I say. Are you cool with that? Are you okay with uh taking on that kind of you know, because I want to make sure that you're gonna be comfortable and you're gonna be happy. Because before I started hiring people, um, I obviously was the only person working for my company. And I wanted to make sure that I created a company that fit my life. And then when I started, when I became, when I was in a place where I could start hiring people, I kept that very close to my heart that I want to make sure I create an environment that fits a person's want just as much as it fit mine, as just as much as my company fit what I wanted. So uh we do a uh we do have a video that we send out when you get hired that gives you um that outlines the onboarding process. You know from the very first day exactly all of the things that it's gonna take before you start working with a client. Then we do uh we send that out to you. We do we go over the uh company manual or the company handbook, we go over the training uh manual uh together. I ask you if you have any questions about any of it. I don't go through it line by line, but do you have any questions about it? Uh and then our uh operations manager reviews with you for um a week, basically holding your hand. Then the second uh video or yeah, video call that we do, you meet your mentor. Uh, I feel like a mentorship program has been vital to retention because then they can ask that person questions that they maybe don't feel comfortable asking me. Uh, and then that person is also doing the exact same thing they are doing. So then again, they can say, How do you guys do this? How do you guys do that? And and I think that that's really awesome. And for three months, you are basically in a contract mode. Like, are you gonna like this? And after three months, we do an evaluation. How did you enjoy working for us? And then how did we enjoy you working for us? And then it's after that that you become uh a true employee of our company, and that has proven amazing, it has been amazing so far. I mean, again, knock on knock on wood, knock on all of the things. Uh, but now you're you are working in those three months, but you're working with someone shadowing you. Uh, and that's important because uh in my field, and I'm sure many of our listeners also have uh a secure field or somewhere where you just can't afford them to make a big mistake. Uh so it's good to have somebody that's supervising them.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

So yeah, so that's what we do. And uh with that, we are going to take our break, and uh then after that, we will move on to our famous example. Wouldn't it be great to hear the sound of us promoting your business for you right here on our show? Of course it would. You can have that and more by producing a show or multiple shows. All you have to do is email us at the businessbehind small business at gmail.com to express your interest, and we will share with you what you will receive with your investment. You'll have the opportunity to have your name and the name of your business mentioned multiple times on our show, having your company logo on our social media along with details on how to get in touch with you and other marketing opportunities as well. Please support us so that we can continue supporting you. In each episode, we'd like to connect a famous example to our discussion to help you relate our talking points on a more global and well-recognized scale, revealing the dots between the living room startup and the success story on the cover of Forbes. Sometimes we use exact examples of either famous persons or successful business owners of today or in history, and sometimes we use examples of people who inspired us and have inspired today's discussion.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, my example today is Netflix. Company culture. Um it's really widely known for innovation, freedom, responsibility, and it is encapsulated in something called a Netflix culture deck. Uh it was actually published online by the CEO uh Reed Hastings, and then later on it became a book called No Rules Rules, Netflix and the Culture of Reinnovation. Uh so I thought that was pretty interesting, but like a few things about how they built its culture is actually kind of cool. Um, there's quite a bit to it, so I'm just gonna pick a couple just because you know I don't want to go read the book, but like, you know, I don't want to like keep everybody online on on here way too long.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Do you have a link that you can share uh in the show notes if people want to go through it? Maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yes, for the book. Ah haha. But no, we can we can probably list the the the the main points, right? So I'm just gonna go over like one or two of the seven that they have essentially. So they have something called a keeper test. Uh it's a little more controversial, but what happens is managers regularly ask themselves if they would fight to keep an employee. And the answer is no, the company provides a severance package to the employee and shows them the door. And the aha idea is to ensure that only the most dedicated and high performing individuals remain fostering a culture of excellence.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

I don't hate it.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I I don't dislike it. Because sometimes it's it also like I said, you know, sometimes people start slipping over time and it's it's hard. If you want high performers, high performers want to be in an environment of their high performers. Like, yeah. All right, here's another one. It's called No Tolerance for Brilliant Jerks.

unknown 38:40

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

The idea is like no matter how talented somebody may be, if they cannot fit into the culture of teamwork and respect, they cannot stay at the company.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

So that's basically what I was saying with the whole, you know, their resume may be sparkling, but yeah, watch out for the sparkling resumes and the lock luster personalities and interviews.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

That happens all the time, right? Because these days, especially with AI, I'm sure people are AIing their uh resumes all the time. So it probably sounds spectacular, but then you meet them and you're like, oh, mm-hmm. Okay. So the uh tall no tolerance for brilliant jerks really is about interpersonal dynamics and the positive working environments, which I would imagine for companies, tech companies, especially innovative companies like Netflix and whatnot, I'm sure they're an attraction for brilliant people. And we all know brilliant people don't have, I mean, they don't come with large egos, right? No, no, no, yeah, yeah. So I guess it means keep your ego at the door, right? Check your ego at the door, essentially, right? Um, and then the last one that I wanted to share, which I thought was pretty cool, was evolution over time. So, of course, their culture is not static, it evolves, and they know that, and they actually push that. They continually refine their practice and pract practice and policies to suit its growing size and changing dynamics as a company. They often take into account feedback from the employees and they take it seriously and they make changes accordingly to make sure that culture remains the cornerstone of Netflix's success. I love it. Yeah, it's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah, very cool. Well, I wanted to see if there were options or other examples that I could use that were not the same as what I had used three years ago. I did find a great link which lists a ton of businesses that have a really different and entirely cool experience in their recruiting process. So that's going to get linked in the show notes. And the one that stood out to me the most was Amazon. So Amazon's hiring process has multiple steps, which includes online assessment tests, virtual interviews, and on-site tests. The final decision comes from the hiring committee, which consists of a panel of personnel that were a part of the evaluation process, uh, the interviewers and the test conductors, for example. Uh, the interview questions reportedly vary in type and difficulty, and it makes the process challenging. Uh, Amazon's interview process is influenced by its leadership principles, including customer obsession. And candidates are given a test on those principles. The applicants for engineering roles are rigorous, uh, are rigorous coding challenges, which include pre-interview tests and coding and design challenges. So that basically showed do you cut the mustard or not? Uh, booking.com really impressed me as well in how they attract the candidates. So Amazon's great in the interviewing process. Booking.com is great in the attraction of the candidates. So, according to greenhouse.io, candidates can explore career options and watch videos introducing their prospective teammates. Check out a day in the life at various offices, and even learn about how certain product decisions were made. So it's less about the saying as and more about the seeing. So if you want to interview with booking.com, you can just watch a video and be like, oh, that looks like a place I'd like to work, or maybe not, you know. Uh there are blog posts, photos, videos, infographics, and working at booking content available pretty much on any social media platform that you could think of. I think that's brilliant. Very nice. Uh, the site also addresses common candidate questions and concerns and provide tips on how to excel in the interview process. Like, hey, if you want to work for us, these are the kinds of things we want to hear.

unknown 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Uh, there's even an option to create a job alert so a candidate who might not find the right role open right now can be notified when something relevant comes up. Yeah, who knew? Very proactive. I think it's really cool. All right, so moving on, there's a saying that goes, put your money where your mouth is. And we're gonna drill down a bit further to connect what we've discussed at a granular level to tangible sources you can get to, you can take to get you to that next level.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah, I I mean I definitely have a couple books to recommend. I mean, um, a lot of this is actually, of course, things you have to put in practice. But I think um hearing from other people what they recommend is probably a great way to start. So, first book I recommend is Who? The um a method for hiring. Um, it's by uh Jeff Smart and Randy Street. And what they have is a systematic approach to hiring and focusing on the candidates that fit your company culture and actually can excel in their roles, right? Which sounds like it's spot on to what we're talking about today. Yeah. All right, the second book is called Work Rules, Insight from Inside Google that will transform how you live and how you lead. And um well, we all know like Google is obviously a mammoth of a company, right? It does provide very valuable insights into hiring and management practices that can be adaptive for much smaller businesses, too, which is only why we're recommending that. Because I mean, I don't know about you. I don't need I don't want or need to be a Google in my life ever, ever. But you know, I'll take some nuggets from them if I can.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Girl, I make the punch, I serve the punch, I drink the punch, I am totally.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

All right, the last book I would recommend is Hiring for Aptitude, um, a revolutionary approach to recruiting and selecting people with both tremendous talents and superb attitude by Mark Murphy, which I just love the title. Way to go, Mark Murphy. I know it's a lot of words. Yes, it is. I wonder what the book's about. Yeah, gee. So it's about selecting and recruiting. No, I'm kidding. It's not it's really talking about the importance of attitude in potential hires. Um, suggesting that skills may be able to be taught, but the right attitude is crucial for a good fit, which I wholeheartedly believe I could teach anybody how to do something. I cannot fix your personality. Right. So that is on you. And I don't even need to fix it. Your personality just may not fit the culture I'm looking for. Yeah. But I'm not I'm not looking to change it. There's a place for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yes. Might not might not be the one. It might not be our place. So that's fine. So back in 21, I listed a link of recruitment tools, and I'm going to do that again. We're going to add that again to our show notes. Uh, however, since then, some great platforms have uh launched or or I have become more aware of to find wonderful talent out there in what and whatever industry it is that you're hiring for. Granted, indeed, is still considered to be the number one platform for jobs, and of course, there's also LinkedIn. But if you're looking for specific types of jobs or candidates, you should also consider flexjobs.com, we work remotely, remote.co, upwork, and workingnomads.co. Yeah. So these will these will be yeah, these will all be noted as well. You may also consider paid internships at your company with guaranteed jobs for graduates. You've spent the time and effort to train them, and you'll have someone eager to work together with you.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Very good.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

All right. What do you know? Alrighty. All right, so please join us for our next episode where we will discuss dissecting success. How did those super rich get there? How did it happen? I mean, were they ever regular people? Some were, some were not. So, um, what did they really do? Stay tuned. I'll talk about it when they were small. Yeah, we're gonna talk about it when when nobody knew who they were. All right, please show us your support by following us on your preferred podcast platform, social media, and on YouTube. Uh, we'd love for you to also share our episodes. All of our links are posted below. And until next time, mind the business behind your business because all great successes start small. Bye bye. Bye.