Natural Super Kids Podcast
Ideas and inspiration to boost the health and nutrition of your kids with Naturopath Jessica Donovan
Natural Super Kids Podcast
Episode 207: Parenting Kids Who Are Struggling with ADHD-Based Behaviours with Ashley Gobeil
This week on the podcast, we’re joined by Ashley Gobeil, a Child and Family Therapist, trauma-specific counsellor, and social worker who specialises in supporting families through emotional and behavioural challenges. Parenting a child with ADHD-based behaviours can feel overwhelming, but Ashley offers compassionate guidance and practical strategies to help families build connection, resilience, and confidence in their parenting journey.
In This Episode, We Cover:
- The difference between ADHD and ADHD-based behaviours—and why understanding this distinction is key.
- Why validating your child’s feelings, rather than focusing on immediate correction, fosters resilience.
- How prolonged stress and emotional dysregulation impact both children and parents.
- How managing your own emotions can create a calmer home environment.
- How physical activity and mindfulness techniques can improve focus and self-regulation.
- Practical ways to support kids with working memory, organisation, and impulse control.
- A holistic approach to parenting: The role of brain development, gut health, somatic interventions, and cultural wisdom in supporting children’s emotional and behavioural well-being.
Ashley reminds us that parenting is an ongoing process and how it isn’t about quick fixes—it’s about consistency, emotional safety, and creating a home environment where children feel seen and understood.
Tune in to learn how to better support your child, manage challenging behaviours with confidence, and create a home environment that fosters connection and growth.
Connect with Ashley Globeil
For more insights, support, and resources on parenting children with ADHD and emotional regulation, connect with Ashley here:
- Website: Ashley Child Therapies & The ADHD Thrive Institute
- Instagram: @ashleychildtherapies
Explore More Resources
- Free Guide to Building Positive Self-Esteem in Kids
- Powerful Exercise to Motivate & Soothe Kids with ADHD
- Jumpstart 4 Parenting ADHD Program
Say Goodbye to Snotty, Sick Days this Winter
Come along to my FREE KIDS IMMUNITY MASTERCLASS
Discover natural, proven ways to help your kids stay healthy through winter — without relying on antibiotics, endless doctor visits, or over-the-counter medications.
This episode is proudly sponsored by my membership, the Natural Super Kids Klub. If you would like to become a member of the Klub to get more helpful resources to help you raise a happy and healthy family click here and pop your name on the waitlist.
If you loved this episode, leave me a review! I would really appreciate it. Also, let me know your biggest takeaway from this episode by sending me a direct message on Instagram @naturalsuperkids or shoot me an email at jessica@naturalsuperkids.com.
Welcome to the Natural Super Kids podcast, where you will discover practical strategies to inspire you to boost the health and nutrition of your kids. I'm Jessica Donovan, a qualified naturopath specializing in kids' health, and I want to make it as easy as possible for you to raise healthy and happy kids. Let's get into it. Hello, welcome to the podcast, jessica Donovan here. I'm so excited to share this conversation today that I had with Ashley Gobeil, who is a child and family therapist. This conversation is going to be helpful for all parents. I got so much out of this conversation, but we're specifically talking today about the unique challenges that come with parenting kids with ADHD, and Ashley shares so many amazing insights and practical tips and I just want to share a little bit about Ashley before we get into this conversation.
Speaker 1:So, as I said, ashley's a child and family therapist, trauma-specific counsellor and qualified social worker who specialises in supporting families to work towards the life they most desire. That may be one of peace, more fun and a happy home environment and family connection where parents feel proud of the way they are raising their children, knowing they are parenting in ways that develop resilient and beautiful kids who feel good about themselves. I mean, doesn't that sound like the dream, but we have a real conversation. You know we're not sugarcoating things here. We're talking about how challenging parenting is, how challenging parenting ADHD kids is, and you know we talk a lot about the importance of looking after ourselves as parents in our parenting journey.
Speaker 1:I really related to this, although my kids are not ADHD kids. I just really resonated with a lot of what she said in terms of some of the challenges that come with parenting in general, but the stage that I'm in, which is parenting teen. So it's a great conversation to listen to and I think you're going to get a lot out of this conversation. So welcome to the podcast, ashley. Welcome to the Natural Super Kids podcast, ashley. It's so nice to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm excited about today's chat nice to have you here.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. I'm excited about today's chat. I think it's going to be a really good conversation. So can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and the type of work that you do? Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:So I work with children and families. So a lot of my work in the last few years has really predominantly been with parents, really about supporting parents to deepen their understanding of their children's behaviors. So they often turn up in my therapy room because behaviors are becoming really tricky at home and parents are often distressed, overwhelmed and it's just gotten to a point where, yeah, things are really really tough. So I do a lot of parent therapeutic support, parent coaching it's got lots of different names these days, but I am a child and family therapist and a social worker by trade.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I do a lot of work with families to restore or build more harmonious relationships with each other and, yeah, work towards that goal. I mean, all parents want their kids to be raised as happy, empowered, you know, resilient little kiddos who feel good about themselves, right, and who doesn't want a parent with more ease? So it's usually kind of like the main goal of our work. And I work with families who have children, who have been in foster care, who've experienced trauma, all the way up to parents who are struggling with their kids ADHD-based behaviours, anxiety, prolonged periods of stress, grief, loss, kind of all of that if that answers the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm here in Sydney, so I do have my own private practice and then do a lot of stuff online. Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, yes, and I think what you offer is so complimentary to what we offer here at Natural Super Kids, and today we're going to be focusing on yeah, like I guess, the parenting side of ADHD. We've talked about ADHD a lot on this podcast. More from, you know, a health perspective, nutritionally, you know, working on the gut, reducing inflammation, which we were talking a little bit about off air. But, yeah, I'm so keen to hear your take in terms of, I guess, helping parents with the everyday parenting struggles that come with I mean parenting in general, but I think it's just heightened with kids with ADHD. So let's start by talking a bit about some of those common behaviours that you typically see in kids that are struggling with their ADHD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so those kind of more common ones, as you said. The common ones we would see can range from, you know that, impulsivity, you know they've got lack of control. They can kind of be quite interrupty. You know the parents are like they're always interrupting, difficulty, listening, following instructions, you know, and then we can see them swing into like hyper focus and finding it really hard to change tasks. You know transition between doing things. They can become quite easily overwhelmed or dysregulated. So that's where you start to see some of the trickier behaviors like meltdowns and emotional outbursts coming up.
Speaker 2:They'll also parents also talk about how their kid has this kind of need to like control everything. They'll start to want to control situations and relationships, interactions, and that's often connected to when we have a nervous system that's really dysregulated. The quickest way to establish safety inside of the nervous system is to try to like gain control. So parents will say, oh my gosh, it's like my kid wants to dictate everything that's happening at home and some of those other kind of typical ones like forgetfulness, daydreamy. They're unable to focus and concentrate on things for long periods of time, especially when they're not interested in it. They'll just like kind of wander off. You know, it's like they're not interested in it. But if they love it, you know, if they love Lego or they love, you know, whatever they're doing, it's like zoning on the hyper focus, yeah, and you'll see them having that difficulty sleeping, you know, resting, anything like that.
Speaker 2:Some of those less common behaviors that I see a lot in the ADHD Thrive Institute program that I do some work with is kids seem to find it hard to be bored.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's come up in the past, like where it's like they find it hard to actually just be in, yeah, in boredom, and I think some of that is around the dysregulation that's chronically in their nervous system. It's like kind of hard for them to be with that right. So they always want that kind of either dopamine hit or distraction. They can get really fixated and stuck on things like their frustration. Tolerance can be quite low and a big, big one I see across all of my work in the programs is shame-related behaviors for kids who experience ADHD. So they can often have a lot of negative talk, you know, or they'll project onto the adults or their siblings where it's like I hate you, you're stupid, and they try to make everyone around them feel how they likely feel. So I can't remember who found the statistical research, but it's something like they have found that kids with ADHD end up with 20,000 more negative messages than their peers.
Speaker 2:Wow, at the age of like 12 so you know they're getting these negative kind of input all the time about just their behaviors are always being corrected when you think about it at home and at school. So we see a lot of shame show up and shame is like that. I'll talk worse to it as we go, but it's that they don't feel. They feel like they're a bad kid.
Speaker 1:Yes, I can imagine they feel like they can't do anything right and, yeah, that negative sort of feedback, yeah, it doesn't help, and so much of what you just said sounds familiar. I've got teenagers. Sounds familiar in the teen parenting like the struggling to be bored, the, you know, needing to have control. So, although I'm sure lots of parents that are listening will resonate with so much of what you're talking about, if they do have kids that have been diagnosed with ADHD or have ADHD type behaviours, I think you know a lot of it is relevant for even just general parenting, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's like, yeah, so much of it is just that emotional dysregulation that kids experience, and kids who experience ADHD often have quite like a more sensitive nervous system. I talk about I know Gabor Mate talks about it in a lot of his work around ADD that, yeah, kids who experience ADHD and ADD tend to have a highly sensitive, easily activated nervous system. And what's really interesting is that's where you'll often see, um, adhd behaviors showing up in different contexts. So some parents will be like how come they're so really great at school but they're like losing it at home? Or they're really struggling at school, but okay, at home, like it can be in. The behaviors can show up differently across situations, which can be really confusing for adults and kind of frustrating. Um, but that has to do with, like what, the relational and emotional input that the child's kind of experiencing and it affects their, yeah, their ability to kind of regulate those moments yeah, yeah, definitely so helpful.
Speaker 1:So obviously there's a lot that parents are dealing with. So where do you recommend that parents start when wanting to help their kids with ADHD, particularly when it comes to that sensitive nervous system, that dysregulation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I think the best place to start. And look, I would imagine a lot of your listeners just are slightly sit outside that mainstream. Right, they're here to do they understand the importance of nutrition. But I always say to parents I really start with being open to thinking about ADHD slightly different to that really traditional medical mainstream model, right, and expanding their thinking around. Okay, what could be contributing, what could be exacerbating these ADHD based behaviors and symptoms? It's like what's below the surface, yeah, so like that kind of curiosity, and even though you know there's some research to show there are genetic like markers and components to ADHD, we know that the environment can switch on genes and switch them off. You know that epigenetic stuff. So you know thinking like what else could be going on for my kid, what's sitting below and when we can start to be curious around what's underneath behaviors we can look at? Okay, we address that. Can we reduce some of the intensity and the frequency?
Speaker 1:I love that. So it's not just like oh well, they addressed that. Can we reduce some of the intensity and the frequency? I love that. So it's not just like, oh well, they've got ADHD. It's like looking at them more as an individual and what's going on for them in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And so some of those factors I often say to parents okay, start with thinking about everything from which you were doing a lot in your program is inflammation, what's the toxin exposure? What's the diet, what's the gut health look like, what's their inflammation level? Because we know that inflammation, which also can come from stress if families are really stressed right inflammation will keep that nervous system at a really sensitive level so become quite easy to become activated. Um, you know everything from like lack of time in nature and low physical activity, excess, too much screen time all of that can exacerbate ADHD as well.
Speaker 2:Our classroom cultures can often exacerbate ADHD. You know, is it? You know what bits are working for kids and what isn't. Things like unresolved, unresolved lived experiences. So you know, we know our nervous systems hold like the imprints and in our blueprint of our whole lived experiences, our whole lives. So things like grief and loss, divorce, trauma, attachment disruptions, social exclusion, you know the list goes on. That stuff can sit with kiddos who experience ADHD, who are more sensitive, and so they again can contribute to that more sensitive nervous system over time if those experiences really haven't kind of been I don't know if resolved is the right word, but integrated in a way and they've made sense of their emotions around them and the beliefs that their child carries about themselves.
Speaker 2:So that shame is a huge exacerbator that sits underneath behaviours and that child feels like, oh my gosh, I'm going to. Yeah, I might fail, I'm going to get it. Yeah, I'm getting it wrong. I'm always in trouble. Maybe I am the bad kid. You know, when that even gets a little bit touched upon, we can see kids fly into like bits of rage, blaming someone else or lying. You know that sort of thing. I had a parent this morning actually said her little one was doing a test at school and handed it into the teacher and he's got ADHD. And the teacher looked at it and it was blank and she just said, oh, kiddo, did you, did you find it really hard to concentrate on this today? I know that sometimes your brain makes it really tricky and you just started to well up and he's just like couldn't.
Speaker 1:He's just like I couldn't do it, you know, and her response would be beautiful, but that's not often the response sometimes I can imagine yeah, it's like a different teacher would have would have had a completely different response, which would have led to that sort of cycle of shame, wouldn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, and for him it was just like he actually feared he was just going to get it wrong and he was stupid. So he was like I'm not going to try so again. Those that can even like contribute to like that difficulty concentrating and that that executive functioning lag, and I'm not sure parents, who are listening if they. There's a really cool statistic around executive functioning, so you might have a kiddo. A really cool statistic around executive functioning, so you might have a kiddo, let's say, who's 11, who has adhd. That might be their chronological age, but their executive functioning age and their emotional developmental age, um, they reckon, is about 30 percent lower than their peers, like on average, right, so you might have an 11 year old, but they're sitting around nine. Or you might have a nine-year-old who's sitting around six, and so it's like adjusting those expectations.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say that really helps parents and teachers, hopefully, and carers really adjust those expectations, which can be a, I guess, a positive thing for that cycle of shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Like when they feel better about who they are and don't feel like they're, yeah, being corrected as much, then they can, yeah, start to move through some of that shame. Yeah, I parents often go really like they're that much younger. So it's like even those little kindy ones who start you're five and six, said to a parent the other day. I'm like you know that emotionally development, she's probably sitting around four and they're like, oh, that makes sense with the meltdowns, like, yeah, you know, is it's there's been a bit of a lag in that development, or when things have been really chronically stressful in homes, um, yeah, it's kind of like unfinished developmental tasks. Let's say, yeah, those kiddos.
Speaker 1:So if a parent's listening that are, like you know, light bulbs going on, oh my gosh, like I'm maybe contributing to that shame that my child feels, but I guess not knowing how to get out of that cycle, like feeling like the child does need to be corrected. You know they can't behave in that way or whatever it might be like. Any tips on that?
Speaker 2:um. The first one is like, give yourself some grace, parents. Like it is hard, like I um, yeah, I work with parents who literally show up, who are just completely overwhelmed at tears, like it is so tough, like every day. Um, I had a mama a couple weeks ago say like every single interaction feels like a battle. I can't get him to do everything, anything you know. So it's like what you're up against is really tough. So I do want to acknowledge that to parents, that it is, and I would say to parents acknowledge what their experience has been like as well.
Speaker 2:Sometimes there's some grief in it. Like parents, it's not the reality you want to be in. It might not be the timeline you want to be in and you might be grieving like that. This is not what I thought parenting would be, especially if it's been like prolonged stress in the family. It's like, yeah, it's really, really tough and so have a lot of compassion for yourself.
Speaker 2:But also also, we aren't gonna get it right all the time, we're not gonna be perfect as parents, and so when we show up in a way, then we go oh, I've unintentionally shamed my kid or oh, my gosh, I've corrected them like 50 times you can go back and do repair, like that's the beauty of it. You go back and you do repair and it's like you know what I flipped my earlier. I was really frustrated and I completely yelled at you. Actually, it probably would have made you feel not very good about yourself. I still really need you to pack your school bag, you know. It's just like we could still hold those firm boundaries and limits and still hold space for our children's emotional experience of that boundary and limit, because kids do, especially kids with adhd. They need a lot of scaffolding on those skills. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I think it's dr becky talks about. People know her.
Speaker 2:Um, kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills right that's a good way to look at it yeah, yeah, they're born like little emotional things but none of the skills, so we have to scalp all those skills, and kids with ADHD often need a lot of prompts and a lot of reminders.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, and some big firm boundaries and limits which is exhausting for parents like parents that are already you, you know feeling like they're just keeping, maybe just keeping their head above water in their busy sort of lives. So, yeah, I love that you acknowledge that you know it's tough for parents and we don't want it to become shame for us, although I'm sure you know it is for a lot of parents.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, I mean. So I actually had a parent actually in our coaching call this morning who just was like I feel so judged or oh my gosh, I feel like I can't get anything right. Maybe I'm not getting it right. How about? You know and I think, as some of us, many of us, as mums, often have that moment of like have I ruined my child? Oh my gosh, I've done it. It's like pause, you are doing the best you can with the resource and the knowledge that you have. Yeah, like we are doing the best we can with the knowledge and resource we have, and if we could be doing better, we would be, um, I think, yeah, and it's like when you can, you'll get there right. Just like listening to some of this stuff, even if a few things land on a parent today, okay, I'm going to be mindful of that, moving into my parenting, that's just part of your process. And, again, it's like if you could turn a light switch on and not have that parental frustration.
Speaker 1:We would right, like how many of us?
Speaker 2:be like, oh, I wish I didn't have motherhood rage today. Well, it's there, so how do we just be with it with a little bit of kindness and do repair when we need right, because it is really exhausting and it can actually um, it can burn out a parent's nervous system, like parents who are parenting neurodiversity. That's really exacerbated adhd. They do tend to be the parents who go into compassion, fatigue and burnout or stay in that like hyper arousal, flight, state ourselves as parents right, and those chronic fight modes or just crash and burn because it is really tricky. So, yeah, I was like how do we get there? So, like, self-care is a huge thing, which I know, yeah, keeping your own like filling up your own cup.
Speaker 1:As a, as a parent, that's definitely my motto for these teen years, which are tricky in a in a different, but you know like if you're going to be able to cope with whatever the kids throw at you in any particular day, you know, I think the most important thing is to keep your own yeah, self-care practices up and keep your own cup full.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's like if we're empty, how can we turn up to our kids' struggles in the way that we need? And this often can happen. It can be like a bit of a dynamic. That happens is that we end up kind of with low resource and so when things are stressful, we really we kind of unconsciously want our kids to turn up in the way that helps us. We want compliance. Like how much easier would compliance be. You didn't have to sit and convince your toddler to put on shoes. Like we want our kids to turn up to the space. Like that just makes it easier for us. Then other times it's like, actually, okay, I've got to turn up to their struggles in a way that's going to be helpful. It's that kind of longer route of parenting. It's like the true emotional regulation. Because I often say to parents yes, compliance would be great. Um, but compliance doesn't build true emotional regulation for a kid. It actually just teaches them they need to do what. I would say yeah, like it's.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting conversation to think about how yeah, exactly like it's something that we wish for as parents. Like why don't they just do what I say? Um, but I love that you said that it's not really building any helpful skills for our kids if they're just doing what we say yeah, it's like we really, truly want them to develop that emotional regulation which then has the flow-on effect to them having self-discipline.
Speaker 2:They will become more cooperative, they'll learn taking turns, like, like they'll get there. But they need that emotional regulation development first, and all the research shows that emotional regulation development initially comes from. It comes from co-regulation. Children need to have consistent, repetitive experiences of adults co-regulating them, meaning they kind of like essentially have to borrow our nervous system for quite some time and that's just another vote for why we need to make sure we're, as you know, as regulated as as possible, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, wow, so so interesting. Um, so tell us a bit more about the parenting framework that you see that works best for kids with ADHD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like I feel like we've, yeah, kind of gone a little bit, so like, how do we tie this all together? So, yeah, I guess I call it like an ADHD specific parenting approach, and some people might get the sense already. It's a little bit of a flavor. There is some conscious-based parenting in it. I kind of like to think about it as having three parts, and that first one is the parenting mindset. Okay, so, like our mindset, going into parenting a kid with ADHD is huge, which is kind of what I spoke to around, like getting real with where they're at in their executive functioning, kind of thinking about what's all, what could be behind their behaviors, et cetera.
Speaker 2:And one of the best kind of little mantras that seemed to land well in for parents who've got kids with ADHD is Dr Ross Green's work. He wrote the Explosive Child and he talks about kids do well when they can. It's like if we can really truly start to step into that as a police, like kids do well when they can. It's like if we can really truly start to step into that as a place, like kids do well when they can, as opposed to kids do well if they want to. Because when we are in that parenting belief that oh okay, kids do well, only they if they choose to, as opposed to actually, kids do well when they can, and if they're not doing well, it's usually because something's getting in the way that's a massive mindset shift huge and it can be a really tricky one, because we were all parented, most of us, from the framework and society is conditioned us to go no, no, no.
Speaker 2:Kids do well if they wanna. So let's just make them want to do better, let's do punishment, let's do consequences, let's do you know, um, yeah, so when we actually go, no, they've got a sensitive nervous system. It's highly activated, they've got some neurodiversity. The way they experience the world's differently, um, lots of kids with adhd. Because of that sensitive nervous system, they do tend to have more food sensitivities, allergies, um, the gut health difficulties. They're sensitive to sensory experiences. Like I said, their whole body, mind, just you know physicality just experiences the world more sensitively, if that's a word differently. And so when we can really go, okay, my kid's not giving me a hard time, they're actually having a hard time. This isn't about us as parents, it's not you right. It's like and it's really tough not to take it personally as a parent. It's like, no, actually there's something getting in the way and this is what they're showing up as. Um.
Speaker 2:I do truly believe that all children's behaviors are a form of communication. Yeah, so like having the mindset if I go back to like, okay, that three kind of pillars to the ADHD specific parenting is like we got to have the right mindset and then it is really a relationally and emotionally responsive approach. So it really focuses on connection and understanding whilst holding limits, very sturdy limits and boundaries, as opposed to really focusing on that like traditional-based parenting of compliance, punishment, because we know that exacerbates shame, etc. Yeah, and that real, you know, scaffolding of skills. It's like you got your mindset and it's like okay, we respond from more of an emotionally, yeah, responsive approach. So I don't know if people have heard of, I don't know if you've heard of it. Just that connection before correction.
Speaker 1:Yes. I was thinking about that before when you were saying, you know that cycle that we can get in like always correcting, and I've recently been in that with my 17 year old son. You know like, and I've got to catch myself and be like okay, how can I connect with him before I correct him again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So it's like connect to their emotion, connect to their in relationship, and then correct or instead of correct sometimes right Sometimes that the connection does the correction right.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Sometimes it's enough to do that regularly because, like, we are actually the biggest tool that our children have well, even into adolescence, because, as I said, they need to borrow our nervous system for such a long period of time to build those neuropathways in their brain and bodies, for their regulation, so they like plug into us, they can drain us emotionally. I had a mom once say to me like she's a little emotional vampire. She just comes in totally drains me, and then she's like good and regulated, but I'm flat on the floor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure lots of parents can resonate with that feeling Like, hang on what happened. I'm feeling so flat now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, take everything from me. So, yeah, it is that and it is yeah. So it's a really relational, responsive kind of parenting approach. It's the mindset shift and holistic. So, as I said, it really looks at what are the other factors that are sitting you know parenting is huge but also looking at, okay, how else can I reduce that intensity and frequency of the symptoms through the natural kind of, yeah, health Everything from? I mean, there's great results around like chiropractic stuff for kids with ADHD and cranial sacral therapy and kinesiology and you know people looking into that more alternative, complementary type of approaches as well into that more alternative, complementary type of approaches as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so much that you know complementary health, natural health, can offer in terms like to support kids with ADHD, and that's what we're sort of always harping on about. And you know, like, for a good example of that, like, if you're so, additives you know, food additives can be very triggering for a lot of kids with ADHD. So if your kid's diet is full of additives, you know, no matter what sort of parenting approach you're taking, you know that you're coming in with like it's going to be tricky. So I love that you brought in that sort of, you know, that holistic side of diet and it comes back to basics a lot of the time. You know it's a good whole food diet, it's movement, it's good sleep, it's not too much screen time. All of those things can add up to make a huge difference, can't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And, as you said, like they'll I mean so many of the kids I see is like, yeah, they're completely riddled with inflammation. And, as you said, it's like parents have to go. Your parenting approach isn't working. I'm like, define working. It's not making them calm down, it's not making them stop. I'm like have we done the other piece of the puzzle? And it's like I still want to encourage parents that, if it's not shifting right away, keep showing up in these parenting approaches because it does reduce that shame that they're experiencing. Over time. It's going to strengthen your relationship, you know, because it's like what's the alternative? They're struggling and if we come in with more distress, you know, and, yeah, even unintentional shame, but it's like, okay, even when you do the food bit, yeah, it's hard to explain. So, yeah, how do you do them in parallel at times? Yeah, because it's like keep showing up, this is the long route of parenting. The at times, yeah, cause it's like keep showing up, this is the long route of parenting.
Speaker 2:The agenda isn't to use empathy or naming their emotion to calm down. It's like, you know, often say have you tried naming? You know, try naming their emotion. Like, oh my gosh, you're really, really angry now that I've turned off the TV and you really want that screen time. Yeah, I know it's like so unfair that I've said no, no, still can't let you have that ice cream before dinner. But you're really, really sad and the kid's having this big, explosive meltdown and it's like your parenting approach didn't work. I'm like it's about holding space for the meltdown so that your child has the experience of feeling seen, heard and acknowledged, no matter how they show up, and eventually, with consistency consistency they're like oh, my parent does kind of get it and it does start to just like I said, that frequency and intensity will reduce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even with just the parenting. But gosh, you add the holistic stuff in and it's like you're doing all the pieces.
Speaker 1:It all comes together. Yeah, and I love that you said that, because you know I think a a lot of parents can have unrealistic expectations. I know I certainly have in the past. Where you like, learn this amazing parenting strategy like that, reflecting the emotion they're feeling and in the moment you can feel like, well, it's not working. So, yeah, it's not about working, like it's not that quick fix, is it? You know, like you said, it's about holding space. It might not be working, but they are still feeling heard and validated in that moment and then over time, that definitely works. And it's funny, now that I've got, you know, cheeky teenagers and I try to reflect back emotions to them, they'll be like I know what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I know, I know I've got lots of clients who the kids will um say to the parents why are you sounding like Ashley right now? We kind of this is a good thing because it's like even when they're onto you, it's like they know you're showing up different. So it's like we're shifting the dynamic, we're doing something different. Yeah, and like empathy and emotion, coaching it's. It's not meant to be used as a tool to get your kid to comply. It's meant to be a tool to leave your child feeling seen, heard and acknowledged so that they develop more resilience over time and build, you know, that positive sense of self, identify their. Eventually, then the kid I love. Like when parents come back a month later or so and they're like my kid just said they were sad'm like great, that's progress. They said they were sad. Still may have had a bit of a meltdown. They said they were sad.
Speaker 2:Like that's huge, it's massive but they stomped their foot and said I'm angry, amazing, you know, like slow progress, but it's like when you're undoing, yeah, those, or you're not undoing, when you're building that emotional regulation. It can take time for kids who are sensitive and where there's already been some, yeah, unhelpful patterns that have happened for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Definitely, and it's not like a thing that you sort of get you know you like right, right, I've nailed that and now everything's calm forever in my home. Emotions still happen. It's just about how we can support our kids to regulate them, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2:absolutely. And yeah, like acknowledging our own emotions as well as parents, because certain behaviors are going to trigger us more than other behaviors. Yes, which could be a whole other podcast around why our own stuff that shows up. But I often say to parents okay, what gets your stuff that's showing up? You? Know, it's like yeah, and, and giving yourself that kind of grace and acknowledging oh yeah, this is really tough in the moment. Um, but it's not an emergency. I can do this.
Speaker 1:I can ride the wave of emotion, yeah yeah, and I think just something I've been practicing again recently is sort of pausing before I respond, because I'm definitely finding, you know, the teenage behavior, like through these teenage years, a lot, a lot of triggering and just being aware that, okay, this is triggering for me, like and just pausing before you like sort of respond absolutely we'll end up reacting from that place of dysregulation in ourselves as opposed to going okay, this is my nervous system, recognizing something is not safe.
Speaker 2:Might not even have to do with my kid, could be a past nervous system imprint from my own childhood, or you know, I'm feeling, yeah, whatever's happening to me, pause, and then going, okay, how does my kid need me to turn up to this right now? What's going to be helpful? And it's like we want to give kids the message especially in teenagers as well that we've got this, we can be the sturdy anchor when they're wobbling. It's like how do we stay sturdy when they're wobbling? Because if we start to wobble too, they don't get the relational, the experience of relational safety that they need to develop that regulation, yeah, and we can leave them feeling really seen, heard and valued, like I would say that's like the main thing we really want to do for our kids in those interactions Like how do I leave feeling really seen, heard and acknowledged for all parts of them?
Speaker 1:Yes, so true. I love that. I'm getting lots of great reminders for myself, and I don't even have kids with ADHD, so I think this is so helpful, like I said earlier, like for parenting in general. I think parents that are parenting kids with ADHD are just sort of that next level than what the rest of us might, sort of experience, but, yeah, super helpful. I'm sure the listeners that have kids with ADHD are finding it really helpful as well. So let's, can we just go back to executive functioning? I know you talked about that earlier. Can you explain what that is for people who might not know and share some practical strategies for executive functioning?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely got a few little tips and strategies. Um, in terms of how to explain it, it's it's kind of explained where there can be a little bit of a lag in parts of the thinking brain. So when you think about children and adults, but children's brains, we've got, um, yeah, we've got our thinking brain. Then we have our emotion brain and we've got our brainstem, so brainstem, our emotion brain, and we've got our brain stem. So brain stem and survival brain is where we see the fight, fight, freeze. We have our emotion brain, where you'll see lots of different emotions. Thinking brain is where, like, it's called the cortex for those who love the neuroscience of prefrontal cortex um, but it's really in charge of, like, everything from language to problem solving, decision making. Um, yeah, concentration, focus, etc. Regulation kind of yeah, an impact regulation as well, depending on the right side and left side of the brain, can get kind of cool. But to think about, but it's really, yeah, kids with adhd can struggle obsessing parts of the thinking brain quickly. It's almost like sometimes I say to parents like can be like patchy wi-fi. Yeah, you know, the teenagers are trying to get wi-fi on the phone. It's like in and out. It's like they want to kind of get to that, but it can be really tricky. So it can impact like working memory. You'll see like so children with adhd can often really only hold like two instructions at a time. Yeah, so they'll often need a lot of prompts. You know they might need you to actually really go to them and go hey, I need you to do this now rather than hauling it from across the house. It can be something really helpful around having like a clean, decluttered space that doesn't feel chaotic and a designated area for important things, because they can be quite forgetful. It's like can you go and do this and do this? That might be all they can manage. Yeah, um, um. And yeah, that kind of easily distract as well if you're not interested in it. Um, even like recall can be a bit tricky at times. So we want to be really clear in our expectations. Um, rhythms and like little rituals can be really helpful throughout the day. So, like we talk a lot about routines super great but rituals and rhythms, like having little rituals where it's like before dinner we light a candle as a family or put on our favorite song, or in the morning, after everyone's ready, we do mindful coloring like almost like markers throughout the day that feel meaningful, that kind of keep them knowing that there's an ebb and flow, so it helps them feel kind of contained, grounded. We want to like also turn down stimulation in the house where we can. Um, they might need a lot of visual things like a visual calendar. Images as opposed to lots and lots of words, right, um, a visual routine.
Speaker 2:A lot of kids with adhd also have that comorbidity around, like dyslexia and dyscalculia as well. I'm dyslexic, so how do I put that in which often gets missed. So, yeah, but sometimes reading and all the numbers and words will jump out. They need a lot of physical movement, wind down breaks. You know that can really help kind of reset those parts of the brain. And they do love that kind of creative I mean most kids do creative dance, music, you know. Cooking, that kind of free natural play, team sports, martial arts-based skills have also really shown that kind of help, that kind of increase and boost those executive functioning skills. Yeah, and the reduction and I and it's really tricky um, low levels of screen time, because screen time can really really impact kids with ADHD, keeps them in the dopamine loops and the younger the child is as well it can actually bring on. Um, yeah, bring on the left side of the brain too quickly, and yeah, or the way it scaffolds up.
Speaker 1:So such a challenging one because I think it's probably like a bit of a um, like it helps in the moment, right like absolutely.
Speaker 2:When you're burnt out and stressed as a parent parenting a kid with ADHD, sometimes the only break you feel like you get is when the kid's on the screen. Yeah, yeah, that's a tricky one, like getting up those kind of habits, because it's like sometimes, yeah, then they're dysregulated for the rest of the afternoon. But, yeah, getting them outside in nature as much as possible, on the trampoline and depending on age, like some of the tips and tools and there's so much stuff online around how to help kids with executive functioning as well it's like you might choose what's the age of my kid, what's going to land? Some kids are like parents have big, beautiful whiteboards with all these different images and they're like they just forget to look at the whiteboard every morning, Like, oh, that's not working. Okay, Get creative again. You know, it's like what's going to work for my kiddo.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's different for every child. And when you're talking about that physical activity gosh, I've seen time and time again in the clients and members that we work with like more physical activity, more outside time in nature makes such a huge difference, especially like before school. If kids are struggling to sit and concentrate and you know which obviously is expected at school, like if they can get some physical activity in before school, that can just change, you know, make have a massive positive impact.
Speaker 2:Huge and time for like mindfulness and practicing mindfulness Because remember I was saying they find it really hard to be bored or they find it hard to be still. Sometimes It's's like you might have to do it with them before they're able to do it as well and like even opportunities to increase their um experiential learning, like using hands and visual and touch, as opposed to the sitting and learning and listening right like what are the other opportunities for learning? Kids with adhd need that more um, more sort of hands-on, totally yeah, yeah, which unfortunately we know mainstream school doesn't.
Speaker 1:I know we nurture for our kiddos yeah, yeah yeah, but again it's like I guess you know, where possible, making good choices in terms of, you know, schooling and that sort of thing. That's obviously a whole, a whole another, another topic, um, yeah, but thank you for sharing more about executive functioning and how we can kind of support that in in ADHD kids. So what about some, like we talked about the regulation, like the dysregulation? I think this is huge for for kids with ADHD. So parents like some tips for parents to increase kids' self-regulation and, I guess, reduce those tricky behaviors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, we talked about connection before correction.
Speaker 2:That can be such a good one.
Speaker 2:So it's like, you know, connecting with them and just saying their emotion as I described her, it's like, yeah, you're really, really angry right now.
Speaker 2:You're mad at me because I've done that so, like sharing their emotions out loud, um, you know, again, giving them that message that we can stay sturdy when they're, you know, wobbling and it's also naming their emotions but finding in ourselves to have that like genuine empathy and compassion for how they feel, when we can muster it up, um, and, yeah, some days we're gonna need to write, ride it out, like sometimes it's like we're riding the emotional meltdown and the outburst and working on our own triggers and our own parental nervous system, I would say is like probably the most important thing when we want to support kids with ADHD, to build regulation, and it's actually fascinates me every time. You're like, when we can actually get it together a little bit, when we can look after ourselves, when we can get the support we need and show up different, it has such a ripple effect. Yeah, I think the other really big one is how do you hold a lot of parents go? How do I hold those sturdy boundaries and limits, yeah, and still hold space for their emotional experience.
Speaker 2:I think that's like a really big one, it's a tricky balance to get right, isn't it?
Speaker 2:you don't always want to. Just, you know, yeah, we're naming all the emotions if it's like but how do we also then like, invite accountability and teach our kids what you know most of them know what's okay and not okay, but it's like, um, I think Dr Becky again talks about it around how do we stay in that parental authority, but with kindness, like we want to step into constantly our parental power? So, because often a lot of parents say with kids with ADHD that the child is dictating the atmosphere of the home, that they're in charge, they're running the show. I hear those messages over and over again. It's like, hey, how do we step back up into? No, actually we're the ones in charge and it's as simple as going.
Speaker 2:I can't let you hit your sister. I'm not able to let you have ice cream for dinner. I actually can't let you speak to me that way. Yeah, you're so angry, you're screaming in my face and you're swearing. You know it's like I'm not able to let you do that. So I'm going to have to come and take what you're about to throw. So it's like I can't let you scream in your sister's face. So now I'm going to step right in between you. I'm going to help you with this really big feeling. Yeah, I had a mom earlier this week. That was like he was kicking and screaming and having a really unsafe meltdown. It's like it's riding the wave of, like it's my job to keep you safe. So I'm going to stay right near you, I'm going to help hold your feet down, because I'm noticing we're finding it really hard to be safe. You know, um, noticing what's coming up for you as a parent, and it's like I need. I need to come in and help you pause your body, because you're about to hurt someone.
Speaker 2:If it's like at that level, yeah, which for a lot of families it can escalate where kids are in that fight mode pretty regularly, um, or, as I said, they're showing up in what parents experience as defiant, or it's like another um apart and I was going to say I might just finish holding the limits and boundaries, and then you add on to that. Hey, I can't let you do that. I won't let you do that. You just add on. But I know you feel really angry about it.
Speaker 2:It's okay for me to feel sad about it. You can be mad at me right now. Yeah, it's like you, you know, acknowledging that they have an emotional experience about the limit you just set.
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, yeah, so you can do both at the same time, absolutely, so, you're like holding that and yeah, I think where else I was going with that yeah, well, I think I think that in itself is super helpful, and I think it's really tricky to get right, and I just love what you said before about you know, just acknowledging that this is tough for parents. So, yeah, although you've shared lots of you know, great tips and strategies and information, it comes back to like, I guess, acknowledging that this is tough for parents. It's tough for the kids as well and, yeah, I guess, making sure that we're looking after ourselves first and foremost. I love that point you made about the co-regulation of the nervous system. I think that is super important for people to understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as adults, like we yeah, we're kind of like the heart of the family nervous system. Most of the time, yeah, it's the mamas, like we're like the beating heart of the whole family nervous system. Like we have the impact and then sometimes when you have a kiddo who's really struggling, it can kind of dysregulate. You know how, like nervous system, energy and emotions. Emotions are so contagious and so we can become so whipped up and in the dysregulation that all of a sudden we're living a life where it's like everybody's reactive.
Speaker 1:And it can feel like a heavy responsibility for mums and dads as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, huge and so it's like, okay, how do we get into the new mindset? How do we use the empathy and curiosity as, like, what's really going on for my kid? Yeah, we can even use curiosity in the moment with kids where it's like, hmm, like I wonder if you're screaming and yelling at your sister because you actually feel really bad about yourself right now, like we can acknowledge the shame, right, and lots and lots of lots of empathy. Kids with ADHD who are struggling, or any kids who are struggling um, yeah, they really need us to kind of be like hey, I'm trying to get a glimmer into what life is like for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, and I think this is why the work you do is so important supporting parents and kids. So tell us more about the work you do and where we can find you, and I think you've got a freebie for our listeners as well. I do.
Speaker 2:I have a few freebies. So for our listeners as well, I do, I have a few freebies. So, yeah, people can find me on Instagram Ashley Child Therapies on Instagram, as well as some of my works on the ADHD Thrive Institute, and I do have a resource that's like five powerful exercises to motivate and soothe your kid with ADHD. So I do a lot of like somatic base work, sensory and body work with kiddos that can help regulate their nervous system Another great parenting tip and so that's a handout that gives you and there's actually more than five exercises I've put in there, there's like 20 around yeah, what can uplift and regulate kids, motivate them and what can soothe them. And I've got another one on helping kids build a positive self-esteem and reduce that shame over time. So there's a little self-esteem tip sheet that I can give you as well, just to share.
Speaker 1:So, so helpful, and I will make sure that we share the links to those resources, as well as your Instagram accounts, in the show notes. So for everyone listening head on over to our show notes, the links will be in there. Yeah, for you to follow along with Ashley's work. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Head on over to our website, naturalsuperkidscom, for the show notes for this episode, as well as a whole heap of inspiration to help you raise healthy and happy kids. I'll see you next week.