Ever wondered what it really means to face your fears? Or how deeply our personalities can influence our relationships? Join us as we dissect these mysteries and more in our enlightening conversation with Cat Larsen. Together, we unravel the intricacies of mental health, uncovering how the power of agency can sometimes be a double-edged sword. Delving into the often-avoided topic of anxiety, we highlight the benefits of facing fears head-on and the danger of losing oneself when getting too entangled in others' affairs.
We further discuss the fascinating realm of human behavior and relationships, considering how diverse personality traits can both complement and clash in various interactions. Decoding the unique needs of 'reds', 'blues', 'yellows' and 'whites', we offer insights on how to navigate these interactions effectively. This episode is packed with a wealth of wisdom, from understanding the roots of our emotions, the importance of investing in relationships, to tackling the phenomenon of analysis paralysis. So, tune in and join us on this enlightening journey to better understand yourself and the world around you.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Ever wondered what it really means to face your fears? Or how deeply our personalities can influence our relationships? Join us as we dissect these mysteries and more in our enlightening conversation with Cat Larsen. Together, we unravel the intricacies of mental health, uncovering how the power of agency can sometimes be a double-edged sword. Delving into the often-avoided topic of anxiety, we highlight the benefits of facing fears head-on and the danger of losing oneself when getting too entangled in others' affairs.
We further discuss the fascinating realm of human behavior and relationships, considering how diverse personality traits can both complement and clash in various interactions. Decoding the unique needs of 'reds', 'blues', 'yellows' and 'whites', we offer insights on how to navigate these interactions effectively. This episode is packed with a wealth of wisdom, from understanding the roots of our emotions, the importance of investing in relationships, to tackling the phenomenon of analysis paralysis. So, tune in and join us on this enlightening journey to better understand yourself and the world around you.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Speaker 1:
Hello listeners. This is Dr Taylor Hartman. I'm with my good friend Kat Larson. I'm very best of living. Hi, kat, hello. Here we are like as old friends. We've done this for so many years.
Speaker 1:
Just knowing the color code, what it does in our lives and how it helps kind of center us make good decisions Right. I'm a big believer in agency and unfortunately agency can become a negative experience. I was talking to a young woman just the other day whose husband of only a very short time has decided to take a different path than the one committed to in their early marriage and how traumatizing it is for her because she's all in and he's not, and how typically I found that the most obedient kind of people have a hard time with agency because they want everybody to do what they know they should do to be happy and you can't own that, you can't control that piece, and then you have to let go and focus on what you can control and move forward. But in the meantime there's a lot of grief that happens when people act on their own agency and they hurt people in the process. So I think our listeners one of the things we've enjoyed over the time together has been listeners sharing with us their insights and their stories, their fears and their concerns that are tied to mental health, and I've been thinking strongly about mental health lately and how we've really lost our North Star.
Speaker 1:
One of the things I was thinking about recently is how we've actually taught people with anxiety to pull away from the thing they fear. Don't face it, don't confront it, just defer, let it take control. And that is the worst advice you could ever give anyone in dealing with anxiety, like the thing that makes you strong is you face the thing you are afraid of and talk to it. Like literally give it a name and tell it that you're not going to abandon the life you've chosen. You are committed to who you are. I met with a young man recently who made a decision to give up on his quest in a particular venue of life and he looked so broken cat, oh my gosh. This young man looked like he the world had come to an end for him.
Speaker 1:
And as we talked about the first thing I said to him, I said you cannot let this own you Like. I don't even agree with what he's doing, by the way, the way he's going about it is not the route I would take. But I said to him despite the fact that you've decided this path is going to change for you, let's commit now to a new path, like a new destiny, a new commitment. So you get principled and purposed again in your life, because if you don't do that, then you vegetate and then you wallow and then you feel like a victim and you feel less empowered than ever. So I'm a big believer in facing and confronting your issues in life. Do not avoid them and think they will go away. They will just make you weaker if you defer, and that's every aspect of life right.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, because I think you just talk about losing yourself the minute you defer on things. Just recently, like people come to it at all different times, it took me a long time to just be able to look at that and say you know, the more you make it okay for others, the more you lose yourself. So it's a great thing you're saying.
Speaker 1:
That's so good. You do lose yourself when you make it about others. You don't take control, you're not in, you're not running your show anymore, and I you know it's funny what you were saying about timing, because I do see some people like deal with it so early on in life, like think about what's happening in Ukraine and young children or single mothers or husbands that are out fighting in the field right, very different ages. They're dealing with a very difficult dilemma in their life, and some people it's health Like. They have health issues very early on in life. Some have them later in life. Sometimes it's relationship oriented. There are many, many people that have talked to me over the years about trauma in their childhood. Others had great childhood and they had trauma in their marriage. So I do think, though you're right, you can't become stronger if you don't face and deal with the conflicts and trauma in your life To make you better as you're talking, I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2:
I see what happens the most and I know the times that I've really like been pulled under the surface and held there for a while. It's like when you have this emotion that I get overpowered by. I'm not just experiencing it. I'm overpowered by it and it becomes this thing in my life that I can't you know manage because yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I agree with that. It which is really what, why it's so cool to have some people in your life that you trust that might be able to pull you out or give you feedback or insight or at least make you feel cared for and understood, because you can really feel overwhelmed, like there's moments when you're like I cannot figure this out. I am so underwater and Emotionally in pain, and that's great.
Speaker 2:
Do you think people still feel like shame or or anything around, thinking that they should be able to figure it out on their own?
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. Yeah, I do. I think it's still, unfortunately, people who don't realize that you know we're social animals and that you really do. You do need to be strong, obviously, and make decisions, move forward, but you also need to know that having other people support you and guide you and care about you is also part of the human experience, and I think it's very sad thing when they feel shame having to reach out.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, did you see? Did you go see the Barbie movie?
Speaker 2:
No no yeah, well, not a film review, but there was a piece of it where one of the characters is talking about she's talking about being a woman and she does this beautiful like soliloquy of be strong, don't be too strong, care, but don't care too much. I mean she goes through these things of these opposites, at least, as you know, from the female view of it. It's true. It's like do your thing but make sure other people feel important, care, but don't you know, but don't be, you know, codependent. I mean all of these things that come at you. And I don't even think it's just particularly a woman conversation. It's just so many messages they get thrown at you that you can. You can be rendered, like you know, paralyzed at one point.
Speaker 1:
And you're right, even masculinity. Look what's happened there. Yes, man, trying to figure out how you can be masculine, but also caring and sensitive.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
So I would agree with you that society sends lots of different Messages, and how do you sort out what's right, what's legitimate? So I will say, at the end of the day, you know where it says by your fruits you shall know them.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
I see whether someone made a good choice and a good path or they took a dark one.
Speaker 2:
Can you talk about that a little bit, like, maybe even through the lens of colors, you know, like, like helping us, you know, as people that are trying to find meaning and where there seems to be Not a lot of meaning, or at least it's confusing to find meaning anymore? I mean, you always start with your spiritual connection, right?
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 1:
I think if you don't have that element, you're not ever going to get the depth of what really it is to be like a true human being, like spiritually grounded and connected to something higher than you.
Speaker 1:
Yes, I also felt that, for example, in terms of my life, every time I've invested in a program or a project that's bigger than me, I've always felt more fulfilled than it was just about me, and I think that it's really important to have that connection. I am a strong believer in a relationship with God. I think it enhances your quality of life when you have someone you can rely on who's healthier, more loving, more legitimate than you are. If you're the end all, I think you're gonna have some trauma in your life you can't resolve. And I think also, humility is a really big piece of good mental health, like the willingness to hear and then be grounded enough to sort out well, is that healthy or is that unhealthy for me? Because if today you have to resonate with you and if poor advice resonates with you, that should tell you something about you, like you're letting negative advice feed you because you're not grounded, you're not hearing truth.
Speaker 2:
Can you do a color process for grounding? I mean, I know that it sounds a little bit out of my fingertips right now, like so if I'm looking at people that are coming from you know, a red power, a blue intimacy, a white piece and a yellow fun. What is grounding wrap around for those people? How do they do it the best?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, let's start with the red. Okay, I think reds, when a red really is grounded, they're vulnerable, and when they're not vulnerable, they're egotistical and so they prevent and block out any good, legitimate feedback that they need to be able to see the whole picture. So the arrogance will get in the way of seeing truth if they don't have the vulnerability to tie into. And every time I've worked with a red that has vulnerability, I always see connection and hope, and when I deal with a red that doesn't have that, I see it just insecurity and thrashing For a blue.
Speaker 1:
I think it's critical that they get grounded in logic. Too often they get so emotionally tied into things and take things so personally that they can't actually see the truth. I have a gal, one of our listeners, who is saying to me she's red with yellow, has a blue friend who always is saying, taking these personally, always making it about her, and it's interesting with a good blue they're always about others. A bad blue is always about themselves, but a healthy blue always can put in perspective logically what's really happening versus what they're feeling and don't let their feelings own them.
Speaker 2:
So I'm in the midst of an emotional swirl. How do I insert logic? How do I stick my hand in and stop that swirl?
Speaker 1:
So, first of all, stop thinking about you and look at the issues. What are the issues that are being presented Like? Your child is angry at you, right? Don't make that I'm a bad mom, take it from, okay. So what is the child angry about? What are the issues that are going on here and how do I tie into that? What am I doing to enhance it or prevent it from happening? How am I playing into that and what things could I do to fix it, to solve this problem, instead of making it all wrapped around? I'm feeling bad. I can't believe I'm a bad mom. I can't believe my kid doesn't care about me. Those kinds of things you can't tie in emotion. You have to get to the issue.
Speaker 2:
It's so funny. I was sitting with my. My son was just visiting and he won't mind that I'd tell this story, because I told him what was I? It's about me, it's not about him. He was just chatting and so we asked about growing up. Like we were sitting around a fire pit outside and he was like, well, you know what was your growing up about? And so like I kind of settled back and I get my expectations about you know what I? Was going to hear, which was not what I heard.
Speaker 1:
Before you go on, I have to say what a great comment for a father asked a son. I love that, yeah yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 2:
And so, as he's talking and he's telling us about these struggles that he had, I found myself getting angry and I had to sit in that a minute and go. Why am I getting mad at him? Because he's telling me about the struggles he had as as a kid and I was like Kathy. So what I'm saying this is like for all of our friends, people listening. It's like this happened four days ago, like it's not, like this doesn't take you by surprise. And I'm sitting there in anger listening to him for five minutes Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:
This is not about me.
Speaker 2:
And I was tying it to what you were saying about. Well, a good mom would create wouldn't create some of those things that he felt growing up if I was a better mom? Well, wait, I did everything. No, I told you not to worry about that. Wait a minute, we talked about that, Remember? I mean this. Things are going through my head.
Speaker 1:
That's so good. And about you. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:
So he had to stop and go listen, like you said, like listen what's he saying and what, what does he need?
Speaker 1:
That's so good. Well, and here's the other part. If you had reacted verbally with things in your head, can you imagine how that would have gone as a conversation? And then in the future, do you think he ever would have said something again?
Speaker 2:
No, yeah, he's lied to me. Oh, it's great. No, it's great Good, everything's fine Fine.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it was great. Thanks, Next, that's so good.
Speaker 1:
I love that For a yellow I think it's all tied to being responsible. Yellows really don't like to look at the facts, they do not want to face facts. So being responsible and saying what's my ownership here, what do I need to do to make the other person healthy, fulfilled, instead of just blowing it off Like it's not really given an issue Minimizing for yellows is not being very responsible. Responsible is saying, okay, I can see what I'm doing here that I can fix. I need to address that. So being responsible is kind of the way yellows can get grounded and centered, instead of dismissing and blowing it off or minimizing or mocking the other person for being so serious. And then for the white they're such clarity is so good with them, but they don't stand their ground, they let things go on.
Speaker 1:
I was talking to a couple recently where she had allowed her feelings to control their relationship for years and she had this beautiful comment she said about her husband you give me these wonderful love taps laced in arsenic and I thought, oh my gosh, that is brutal. Beautiful the way she said that. So this guy had dirty motives, very needy, and he would do these wonderful things but always wrap them in. You need to meet my needs, you need to make it about me. And so she saw it, she felt it, she was really sharp as whites can be right Never said anything until they separated. And now she's starting to pull it out, say things, share her insights, and he has come around to be able to hear it now. But you know she'd done that years before. It would have saved them a lot of pain and grief and probably separation Cause there's a lot of love there for sure.
Speaker 2:
Are they back?
Speaker 1:
together. Yeah, they are oh good and they're working it through, which is really exciting for me. You know what's funny about that. I am so happy. When I see a couple that are struggling that belong together, versus a couple, I'm like, mm. You know what, cut the bait, move on. It's not right, it's not gonna be right. I can have like on the same day I can have two clients One I'm like I love where we're gonna go with this. It's gonna be hard but it's gonna work. And another couple I'm like don't waste your money or time. There's nothing there and they're too unhealthy to make the shift. So you can kind of tell pretty quick where that lies when people are candid and honest with you.
Speaker 2:
Yes, you can If you are brave enough to look.
Speaker 1:
It's true, you gotta be brave to do it. That's exactly right. I agree with that. But the point I'm trying to make here is that we really need to take responsibility for our lives, and I also think you may need to cut people out of your life that are unhealthy, like just I don't.
Speaker 1:
I've had other people say to me but we're family, what do I do? And I said limit the contact or take a spouse with you so it's not so driven towards you. Don't let them own you, but don't let them and that also means like not seeing them, maybe them owning you. It may be. What you need to do is identify better ways to manage that relationship rather than let it own you, but staying away completely may not be the answer, you know either, maybe, but loving them but not letting them own you in the process and we all have relationships like that we have to figure out how can I best navigate this in a loving way, without letting them get the upper hand and hurt me and destroy me, and I, you know, I feel bad for some people. I just think don't have the skills to do that, and so they took the only route they understood they could do, which is either obliterate the person and or ignore them completely.
Speaker 2:
So good when you're talking about the work that it takes in doing the work is it's it is complicated and it takes time and it's it's so interesting Like we take years and years and years to study to become good at I remember I was talking to Paco and he was like telling me about get ready, hold on this is so exciting.
Speaker 2:
What he was telling me is about the size of the rocks that they put at the bottom of a dam and why, right? And I'm like, okay, yeah, well, I mean, you know. Really, the sad thing is is I'm starting to get interested. I don't know what that means. I might, my brain cells might be just dying off, and so it's just like, oh, that's interesting. No, no, there is some interesting stuff, of course, around engineering. I love it.
Speaker 2:
But then, like like a couple of years ago, you know, I was like how you can remember the size of a rock at the bottom of a dam but you don't remember what we talked about A, b or C I said you know the work, the work that it takes, and that was really pivotal for us for him to go. You're right, you know, I do, I pay attention, I look and when it becomes, when it comes to emotional things or something that is you know that he's uncomfortable with, or that you know that has more personality than a rock, you know, like his wife not much, but there's some there but to be able to go.
Speaker 1:
I really believe that.
Speaker 2:
But to be able to go it takes work, more work than the engineering or the doctoring or the lawyering or the retailing Right.
Speaker 1:
it's more personal.
Speaker 2:
Oh much of course, but people don't do the work.
Speaker 1:
It's a learning about that area of life which is far more critical. Yes, but it is more. It is more threatening, it is more uncomfortable as well, you're right. But why not spend the energy doing that and growing in life, getting better at life as being a human like you? Get better at things like engineering, you're right, right.
Speaker 2:
Well, and guess what, the minute we started investing in the relationship that way, I know I was really interested in the dam and the rocks and what it takes and the mechanics of it. I got more interested. I don't know why. Why is that? Why did I? Why does that happen?
Speaker 1:
No, because you felt connected to him. Yeah, like you, love for him increase. Therefore, what he's about matters more. Yes, which is so cool, right, everybody wins. Everybody wins. That's so good, though. You're right about that, though A lot of people.
Speaker 1:
I was talking to a guy recently and it was just so sad. He said I came home after I've been gone for three days and the first thing my wife said to me was will you take care of this business deal First thing, and then nothing really was dealt with. The next, the rest of the day, and then the next day, when he left for work, the very first thing she said to him was never to take care of that business deal. That was all that happened. And he said and this guy's a red, he's so great. He said you know, that really made me angry, like I hurt real life. We have no connection. There's no sense of like how are you? How was the trip? What are you feeling? Let's connect into who you are as a person. None of that. It was just a transactional and I think, like you, with you and Paco, it's not transactional. It's much more meaningful because there's a connection personally as well, which is great, and there are times when the transaction shows up, and that's when you listen to that, you know.
Speaker 2:
Going back to what you're saying about mixed messages, it's like when do I say something when my life has been? Oh my gosh, why are you so over touchy? Why are you reactive? Why are you this, why are you that? Why you're so much? You know listening to that message and making sure that that filters out of the way to go no, here's what's real, here's what isn't. When am I being overly sensitive and making that distinction?
Speaker 1:
Well and also understanding it. For example, when you were getting angry when your son was sharing those issues as childhood yeah, just powerless, that's what it was. Yes, and your ability to say, oh, why am I? Why am I feeling powerless, like I feel guilty that I wasn't better at what I should have been doing, all that stuff. Once you understand that, it helps you solve that issue, make sense of it Right, and there are certain principles that I think were hopefully our listeners have enjoyed and will continue to get value in hearing things they can actually apply with understanding. Oh, that makes more sense to me now, like when I talk about a reds insecurity. It makes it so much easier for me to value them. I get it Right. Yeah, there's another thing.
Speaker 1:
The other day, this person I love it so much he wasn't good at coming through with their plans for things like anniversaries or whatever else. Yeah, he was so good at coming through with you and his wife made the comment no, you know what happens? He gets analysis paralysis. He gets so stuck in trying to think if it's going to be able to be done, but he doesn't actually execute. So it wasn't that he didn't give energy, it wasn't that he didn't care. He just was so overwhelmed with trying to make the right decision and do the right thing that he didn't act. And I thought that was so helpful to me and understanding like, oh well, that makes a lot more sense instead of condemning him for not being interested or caring, which was not the case. So I think that understands the general health of the story.
Speaker 2:
That's going to help a lot of people. I mean, listen to that, just the fact that if somebody's not doing something, maybe dig into how you've reacted in the past to what they've done, or maybe you know like you know, maybe I'm tied to it with a, with a. Oh, that's not enough. Or, you know, I can't believe you did something but you get judged for it. That approach Right.
Speaker 1:
Yes, and I always think the longer people get better at understanding that the core issues behind behaviors and mental health the better off they're going to be. You know, kat, when I first wrote the color code, the reason I wrote it was because we have nothing in our world of psychology that focused on motive. It was all based on behavior, and my reaction is you don't even understand behavior until you know why it's being done. So, looking to understand the why behind the, what will always be, hopefully, our gift to the world, yes, getting in touch with one.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
So, as our listeners, I hope that you are thinking right now okay, so what am I judging that I really don't have the full picture about. What should I be thinking more about? That would make me feel more confident in how I interact with people, how I forgive and accept people, how I challenge and speak my truth to people. That is uncomfortable. However it is, you're going to operate with mental health in your life. I hope you'll be thinking about the reasons behind why you do or don't do what you're doing. That's it for today, all done.
Speaker 2:
Well, that was a lot.
Speaker 1:
That was a lot actually, it's always the best. We'll be back with you next week. We have a wonderful week and do great things with your life. Thanks, kat. As always, it's been a pleasure.