Very Best of Living
Dr. Taylor Hartman, relationship expert and Psychologist, discusses key insights that he has made over his professional career on what makes successful relationships. His work The Color Code now called the People Code is a powerful agent for positive healthy relationships both personal and professional.
Very Best of Living
Embracing Challenges to Rediscover Joy
Have you ever wondered why joy often feels so distant as we grow older? Join me and my wonderful co-host Cat Larsen as we navigate the complex landscape of joy, especially during the dreary months of January and February. We categorize people into three groups: those who are dispirited by life's challenges, those who bounce back, and those who emerge stronger. An eye-opening exercise awaits you—listing the ten best and worst moments of your life. It’s a reflective practice that reveals surprising insights into how closely linked our highs and lows are, offering a roadmap to rediscovering joy and understanding our roles in both success and adversity.
This episode also uncovers the transformative power of adaptation and growth. Inspired by a couple who turned their Jeep into a local adventure hub, we contrast their meaningful journey with my own superficial experiences to highlight how challenges can morph into profound learning opportunities. We dive into personality types, classified by colors, to explore how each adapts differently to change. Blues, for example, struggle with their quest for perfection, while reds and yellows adapt more swiftly. Drawing from Darwin’s theory of adaptation, we encourage embracing change as a vital survival trait, offering empathetic suggestions for those coping with trauma or chronic pain.
In relationships, fostering empathy and gratitude is crucial, as illustrated through a humorous anecdote of a client’s frustration with her husband’s contradictions around weight loss. We discuss the delicate balance between empathy and giving straightforward advice, urging a shift from inward focus to an outward-looking perspective that enriches others’ lives. Channeling the wisdom of St. Francis of Assisi’s prayer, we stress the importance of understanding over seeking validation, advocating for resilience over self-protection. As we wrap up, we express heartfelt gratitude to you, our listeners, wishing you a joyous season and eagerly looking forward to our next reconnection.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Hello listeners, Happy New Year 2025. Here we are, it's all new. I'm with my good friend and colleague, Kat Larson. Hello Kat, how are you? Did you do well over the holidays with my good friend and colleague Kat?
Speaker 1:Larson Hello Kat, how are you? Did you do well over the holidays? We did. We actually not only survived, we thrived.
Speaker 2:Well done. I like that. Well. Now we're into the new year already and it's already passing time, and today I want to talk about the concept of joy and what it looks like and feels like, because sometimes people find the January February time slot can be awkward for them, and so I want us to talk about what that really can feel like. How do you make that happen? Because true joy can't be contrived, it has to be felt organically. So that's what we're going to get into today.
Speaker 1:That sounds great.
Speaker 2:I think people lose joy as they age and I think there's like three types of people those who were permanently dispirited by events in life. They never actually recovered. You know, they never got like a divorce, they never recovered from or lost a child or any number of things they just didn't ever recover from. And then there's those who got their life back to normal and they saw it as a challenge, a blip in the radar, not comfortable, wouldn't want to do it again, but they're back at life again. And then there's those who use the experience as a defining event that makes them stronger. They actually got better as a result of looking in at what that meant for them.
Speaker 2:So I guess people have to ask well, who am I in those three? And you know the exercise that I love that I give clients all the time is go back in your life and list the 10 best things that ever happened to you and rank them so one to five, five being the best three is great, it was a good thing. Not a one, not a five. And then I want you to tell me your age that you were and why you gave it that rating, and then go with the 10 worst things that happened to you and rate them one to five five being minus five, the worst of the worst, minus one, being bad, not pleasant, but not a minus three and then draw a graph and kind of look at your life and see how that's played out.
Speaker 2:Every time I do this with people it is shocking to them how many highs and lows are linked so closely, so many are linked so closely. So I like that from perspective wise, because if you can't, you can't see it in the moment, Like when I'm experiencing trauma, all I can see is the trauma. I don't see any of the highs or lows at that point, I just feel the trauma that I'm in. So I like that as kind of an example for our people that are listening. You might want to consider doing the highs and lows of your life and what does it tell you? And how have you used the highs and lows to enhance or detract you from the quality of life you want to have? I mean, you just went through one of those like moving from where you were that was not where you wanted to be to where you are now, which is much more in line of who you want to be. Yes, so you can relate to that right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, a hundred percent. And I have a question when you do highs and lows, draw the draw, the learning point for me and for us, like when you say you, you can't have this without this, which is kind of like age old, you know, like you got to have the lows to experience the highs. Um, what point do you make for people when they're looking at that graph Like where do you live? What do you bring up in your mind most of the time? Is that what you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like I. Well, are you talking in terms of identifying what the lows and highs are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is the learning point? As you look at through Taylor Hartman's eyes, what is it Like? How do I learn the most from that exercise?
Speaker 2:So what I'm saying to somebody is I'm looking at pain points and pleasure points. So, for example, if something brought you great passion riding horses and you've stopped doing that, I will ask why, if it brought you so much pleasure, and what was the pleasure it brought you? Was it connection to the horse? Was it your skills as a rider? Was it the people you knew that were riding with you? What was that that worked for you? And are you still doing that? Or have you passed that?
Speaker 2:And if it's a pain point, I'm asking them so tell me what you learned about that. And I always ask what was your role in that? What part did you play in that happening? Because if you can't gain any kind of insight as to what role you played in it, you're missing the point completely. And then I always ask them also to look and see what things did they learn from points of pain that actually enhanced the possibility of some highs later in their life. And then, of course, the question is have you been stuck along the way in any of these? Have you been stuck in staying at high points, for example, that you never moved on from because you were too afraid to lose that? Or have you been stuck in low points because you couldn't grasp how to improve yourself as a result of them? So those are the techniques I use.
Speaker 1:I love that this last moving, it's been really great. I love it here and I think something that you're saying is so important because I do remember back when I was young how easy it was to spark joy, like it just came. I didn't have to work at it.
Speaker 2:No, right Good.
Speaker 1:What I got stuck in for a while was the missing of the ease of that process. Like it used to be so easy to get excited about and feel this and it just came and I didn't have to work at it and I spent some time there and then I think it was in one of our podcasts Like I really can't even remember how I started thinking about it. But but you, it's not easy, it's not like it, it's not like it just comes like joy just doesn't show up the way it did for me when I was young. Do you experience that too?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not quite the same for me as it was when I was younger, but I also believe yellows are blessed with an innate sense of joy. I love that boy that used to go to the front door, open the door and say, hello world, I'm ready, and it was just kind of like that's what, how his life was Right. And I do think that yellows have an innate sense of joy that other personalities struggle more with. I do believe that, of course, on the dark side of that is that oftentimes, when yellows face then hard things, they're like what, like how is that supposed to be part of the process? I thought it was supposed to be always happy and always joyful.
Speaker 2:So that's the downside, and we're going to talk about the colors and how they kind of deal with joy or not being joyful as well. That's a good point. I was talking to a Hispanic gal the other day who is she's been just divorced. She's been. She's just a great employee, good worker, liked by everybody, and she said you know what, what I miss? I miss when I was eight years old and I was working the fields with my parents in the morning at 4 am on Saturday. I'm like what she goes. I just loved being with them. I said you were working the fields, like, are you, are you kidding me? She goes. No, I still think about that now, how joyful it was to be with them, and I I just was so impressed. It just really hit me how her younger sister was actually there in the group that I was training in and she was too young to be part of that, so she didn't experience that at all. But her sister who was older was just talking about the joy she felt being with her parents, even though it was hard work and she was making peanuts. She just did it for them to be with them.
Speaker 2:So I think you're right, though I think as you get older, it takes chunks out of you and I know there are people, for example, that have been chunks out of you and I know there are people, for example, that have been. They've gone through a divorce that was very, very harsh. I was talking to a man just yesterday who has been devastated. He's a tough red guy, like he's just a good guy, and his wife has destroyed him like has hurt him so deeply in that she is not legitimate at all. She's not a narcissist, but she's very self-centered and she is cheating on him, had affairs and he is heartbroken Just the fact that he wanted so badly for it to be something more than it was. He gave up his career to take care of her and that kind of thing and investments and that whole dynamic. He's not about money, he's about the connection they had, and so I could see in his eyes. He said I'm tired.
Speaker 2:I feel, like I'm 80 and I'm 35. I just feel old. And I think that happens also with people with chronic illness. It's just hard for them to get out of bed Like they are in pain, and if you don't have any of those struggles, you don't really understand how that wears on. People Like oh here we go again, right, right. I am very sympathetic to people. It's also kind of a weird phenomenon of aging. Nobody understands what you're going through at aging, unless they're aged, because they haven't been there, right. So I think it's hard for them.
Speaker 1:And I do like, like just replacing and looking at and going back to I do think there's some staples right, it's just like eating good, you know it's like the same kind of thing for for that which is, don't become a victim to. Well, you know it doesn't feel as good as it used to, so I guess I'll just, you know, go through the motions. As opposed to how much of that is, from how much of that can you actually regain? I'm kind of in that way right now because we're going to we're going to be spending the holidays alone.
Speaker 1:My kids can't come home. And instead of comparing it to what it was. I think I've decided and again, this might be some of that toxic positivity stuff, but it's like I'm going to. I'm going to look at it a new way, you know, I'm going to make it happy. But I do think that that you do, you, you really do have to be, not a victim to what it used to feel like.
Speaker 2:Well, okay. So first of all, let's own that you have you. Of all, people now know how magical the times were when you were together.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So if you had not taken advantage of that, let's say you had been too busy with work, not invested in your kids, and so those moments were not lived, you actually didn't experience that. That would have been even more traumatic, right? True? So let's make. And so those moments were not lived. You actually didn't experience that. That would have been even more traumatic, right, true? So let's make sure our audience understands that if you have opportunities to make a moment meaningful, make it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Enjoy it. I always say that about traveling Traveling at 40 is different than traveling at 75. It's just different. So, and they're both wonderful, but not in the same way. So take advantage of it when you have the opportunity, and then I do like what you're saying. I do think there are ways that you can rethink this.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's not the same, and I don't know that your Christmas will be as joyful without the kids. I don't know that it would be. I don't know if that's fair to say that it should be. Quite frankly, I think you created something when you had them. It was wonderful to have them, you're glad you had them and, of course, you want them to move on. But then they have work, they have other responsibilities that they didn't have when they were younger, and so coming to terms with that, I guess setting realistic expectations and then being able to be sad like, oh my gosh, I wish that were different, but it's not. That's certainly true for people who have lost somebody, who's died Right, and I can't tell them well, you shouldn't miss them, you shouldn't feel bad about it. Why wouldn't they? Of course they would.
Speaker 1:But it could be yes and it doesn't have to be yes, but you know, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:So good, I really do agree with that. And it is attitude, like there's an attitude that has to be in play about. How can it be yes and versus yes, but right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and my my. You know Paco knows me well enough that it's like you know. I'm looking at him in the face with this intensity of like we are going to have a joyful Christmas even though the children aren't here and he's like, oh crap, you know what that means for me, kefi, here we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, oh. This is to get my kids back. Just have them be here, it'd be easier.
Speaker 2:I'll pay anything, I will pay anything that's really good, yeah, no, it's hard. I do think, though, that it does. You made a comment earlier, though, also about good eating habits and whatever. I do think there are consequences for poor choices in life that do take away your joy later. I do believe that, like people that have been harsh or unkind to their family or have made poor choices in terms of health, that are therefore unable to kind of enjoy good health, I can't say to enough people think about consequences now, not waiting. Don't wait, because once the consequences have come, they are what they are. You have to live with them, right.
Speaker 2:So making good choices along the way is a smart move to make, setting some goals, things that you want to get involved in or learn about or become a part of. I talked to a couple the other day that they bought a Jeep and they went to a Jeep club to learn how to go out in the wilderness. You know, deflate the tires, things that you do when you're in a Jeep club and you learn about and the magic that that brought to them staying local and just going out and staying in the Jeep in a sleeping bag, versus feeling a need to go travel someplace or go somewhere and I also had a Jeep. I didn't join a Jeep club, I didn't learn how to deflate the tires. I didn't do any of that.
Speaker 1:I'm like that sounds like a lot of work, but you looked dang good in that Jeep, taylor.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable. That was about as superficial as you can get. That's all I wanted, just to look good, but I honestly I was so impressed with this couple I said good for them. They actually put the effort into making that a meaningful kind of thing for them. I do think people should consider that life, the expectations of life being without pain, is not realistic, like I think. We're here to learn and to grow and develop, and you know you don't learn as much in the good as you do the bad. You know you don't, like you, learn a lot more from the hard times. And so for those that have been abused, mistreated, traumatized, those people who have experienced chronic pain, I want you to know my heart goes out to you. I don't think there's anything more lonely than feeling that alone, feeling misunderstood or not like you were ripped off, like I played by the rules. I did what I was supposed to do and this is the outcome I get.
Speaker 2:It's very, very difficult, but I would like to give some suggestions to look at. First of all, by color. I think yellows need to remember they are really good in the moment, really good, and they are more show horses than plow horses. And so when life gets routine or requires consistency. That's your growth, that's your emotional maturity. You have to do in order to find joy. You can't just have it always with sugar and blues. They have to expect that unfairness happens in life, and blues are the worst at taking hits that are unfair and then getting stuck. So understand that while you're very loyal by nature, others are not necessarily as loyal as you, and work to set those expectations differently. And work to set those expectations differently For whites.
Speaker 2:You'll get to the point of saying what is the point? Like, it's just so much work, I'm just going to be in my own world and stay quietly there. I don't blame whites for liking their own company that's a compliment. But I think they'll find that if they don't also then share other aspects of themselves, they end up almost saying what is the point? And then for reds it's a loss of control. I think reds really have a hard time when they're able to do so much with their empowerment that they live with, and as they get older and are not as able to function the way they used to be, they often don't adapt well with that and that becomes a real negative for reds. So I have several ideas I want you to think about and you can comment on these as we go through it.
Speaker 2:So the first one is learn to adapt. Whether you like it or not, change is going to happen to all of us, in every aspect of our lives. It's going to happen. So adaptation is the survival of the fittest going to happen. So adaptation is the survival of the fittest and that will always come at you, whether it's retiring from a job, whether it's children leaving the home, whether it's physically not being able to do what you used to do. It's setting a new marker or parameter around what you can adapt into to give life meaning and purpose.
Speaker 2:And whether it's gardening for you or showboating in a Jeep, to me it doesn't matter. It's whatever works for you, as long as it genuinely works. It's got to be authentic. But those people who get rigid and say it's not right, I shouldn't have to do this, you don't understand. I want you to know your work in life is to learn how to adapt, and Darwin taught that with survival of the fittest. With animals it's certainly true of nature itself. So people are no different. We need to learn to adapt. Any thoughts on that one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's gone for me to the top of my list to not fight against. So what you're saying is like you look at your life, you don't fight against it, you say adapt to like, adapt to, uh, the generational conversation? Well, we got to adapt. This is the way they're responding right instead of getting solid in judgment no, that's not right.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so so removing judgment and putting adaptation, just like, like looking at those two words in my life is like when do I judge? When do I judge about anything? I mean, there's a lot lately I have felt has come up in my brain. I was like, well, really, that's, that's the way, that's where we're going, instead of how do I fit into it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. How do I make it work, as opposed to resisting and hating it? Yeah, I mean ethically and morally Okay.
Speaker 1:You know I'm not going to adapt to something that's hurtful to others, but yeah, um, yeah, no, I love that. I think I'm going to put that at the top, even more at the top of my list now that you said that how well do I adapt and what?
Speaker 2:color adapts the best? Well, I think blues struggle the most because they want it to be perfect and right and they hate to give up the past. They really like that depth. I think that probably reds and yellows probably adapt better than anyone, more quickly. I would say Whites, though. I would say whites, though, are very logical. If it makes sense to them, they can be brought along pretty easily. They're not fighters by nature.
Speaker 1:Right, I have a question about. We've talked several times about this in the blue and the security of that. You know what creates lack of spontaneity, or the the overly planning. And with the blue, do you tell blues to just if you can live in it, if you can be uncomfortable long enough, you'll. You'll start to appreciate it Like, is that an adaptation or a mindset that you go? Yes, you're never going to go. This feels great, but if you sit in it, is it a is it a time thing?
Speaker 2:I like that? Yeah, absolutely. It's also a mindset thing, like you can sit in it and be bitter the whole time, or you can sit it and go. You know what. It makes sense to me. Now I can see where I need to let that go. Or you come to realize I'm actually more secure than I thought I was, like I'm really going to be okay, which is a good confidence builder for blues. But yes, you have to at least shift into it to experience the change, though as long as you're fighting against it, you'll never experience that, or it was unfair to me.
Speaker 1:And do people think they're actually in it, but they continue to fight against it?
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? All the time, all the time? Oh my gosh, I just had a client and she's red, and she was so frustrated with her husband who says I just can't stand my weight. And then he eats cookies every night. And she goes don't talk to me about it, you're not fat to me. Be fat to yourself, I don't care, but don't keep telling me how fat you are. And then eat cookies. And I love that kind of that red mindset of you know what? If it's really a problem, solve it. If it's not a problem, then don't talk about it. So very, very matter of fact.
Speaker 1:So why do callers talk about it so much Because they don't, because they're what are they looking for?
Speaker 2:Well, just empathy, like understand me, like I want to share my, my struggle, my, my trial, I want to share my difficulties. They'd like that connection that comes from that.
Speaker 1:And so so what's the most healthy response with the red, which is take the cookie out of your mouth.
Speaker 2:You know it's really hard. I think that's a great response. It really is hard. It's not as easy as people say it is. Now take the cookie out of your mouth. I think having that empathy and then also the very straightforward kind of suggestion is a really good one. I do. I like both.
Speaker 1:Good good.
Speaker 2:And in that order. Don't say take the cookie out of your mouth. Now, that was really hard, wasn't it? That was seen as sarcastic.
Speaker 2:The second one is I want people to look outward rather than inward. It's so interesting to me, kat, how often people curl up and go inward in life instead of outward in terms of making life work for them. And if you can't do that, you're going to crumble because you're not that interesting. Nobody is that interesting that if you're going to examine the hairs on your navel too long, it's like, really, that's all my life's about is me. And yet the people that are happiest, most joyful, are looking for ways to bless other people's lives. They're always thinking of how can I make this work better for you? They're the ones that say what can I bring for Thanksgiving dinner? Not like I hope so-and-so doesn't bring that again. That is so amazing to me, how the one that complains about what other people cook is all about them. And then the other one is like what can I bring to make it a good experience? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And you'll see people that do stuff at family gatherings. That is so impressive to me. Like they, you can just feel them. They're interested in the young people. They're interested in what they're doing. They're asking questions about their next year. Other people are like I can't believe we're having the same jello again. Other people are like I can't believe we're having the same jello again. It's just, and they don't even get how stuck they are on themselves, right.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. The third one Wait, I have to tell you something. This is really interesting that you said this. So I was having a conversation with one of my kids two days ago and I was really inappropriate not inappropriate out loud, but in my brain I'm like and I was trying to push my you know, look at this and understand, and so it felt really uncomfortable. They shut down on me.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And I just can't believe you brought this up because it just happened yesterday. So I've been thinking about it and what do I do? And I didn't like the way I felt about it. So I was like getting ready to step and then this thing kept going through my brain Like I don't even know where it comes from. It's somebody's prayer somewhere, but it's like seek to understand instead of be instead to understand you know, and yeah, that can't say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like so. Then I look it up and it's a prayer for something I can't remember. I think maybe Francis of Assisi, is that right? Yep, that's correct. Back and it really is a great place with what you're talking about, which is everybody's so worried about being understood, that the path is understanding. I mean, that sounds so philosophical, but it's like, until you're in the middle of it, you're like I don't care, if she understands me, I'm going to understand her and that's going to open a door.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we could make that even a political discussion. After this last election, when you get creamed by, the Republicans won by a landslide Right, the Democrats should be seeking to understand yes, what is it we didn't do? Right, right. And yet the nature of man is to blame and to push against. And it's such a great insight. That prayer of St Francis is a beautiful one of saying stop making it about you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Make it about them, try to understand them. What did we miss?
Speaker 1:Do you think we got on this trail with psychology in the last decade, about moving to identifying and boundaries and make sure I'm safe, and I mean I think safety is an issue? I'm not trying to take any of that away, but it sure can go down a road of I'm protecting myself first as opposed to opening up to more conversations.
Speaker 2:I think we're weak. I think we've gotten weaker and everything we do is to nurture the weakness as opposed to strength, and that will never bode well for people. That is not to suggest there isn't reason for hurt or pain or discomfort, but to identify it as oh yeah, nobody really understands what I'm going through. What was me? I have to protect myself. Those are weak people. In fact, I even said to people all along you should always engage everybody in your life freely, unless you're too weak to do so. If you're strong enough, they don't own you. You own them.
Speaker 2:So I don't like the idea when that one professor said don't go visit people over the holidays that voted for Trump. Like what I mean? What are you talking about? Like, why would you give that so much power that you would decline the opportunity of being with people you love and feeling connected, but making it again all about me? I don't care about them, I care only about my feelings and my protection. So great question. It makes me very sad when we've gotten so self maligned that we're more about ourselves than we are about others.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And and and, and. I see that with parents that are the gentle parent, they're so afraid of their kids not liking them that, rather than saying that is not happening in my house, they're like now, gentle thoughts, gentle thoughts. I'm like my gosh, it drives me insane. But okay, we'll go on. That's another podcast, okay, all right. So the second one is looking outward rather than inward, making life about others. And then the third one is plant seeds for trees that you'll never see. So I have a client that I just love.
Speaker 2:This guy he's such a genuine human being and his friend is so selfish. He is always about him and always has been. Everything revolves around him. He's so insecure and his success has only made it worse, not better. So he said to this guy, who I really think of the world of why do you go out to lunch with younger people? Like why do you do that? Like what's the gain for you? And this guy was like, well, cause I like them. And somebody helped me once when I was a young guy and took me out to lunch and gave me some pointers and it made a big difference in my life. It was to him, not rocket science Like why would you not do that, I enjoy doing it. And this other, very selfish all about him, red said why would you waste your time going to lunch with younger people? That can't give you anything. There's nothing you're going to gain from it. So I really, and I look at the quality of their lives. They're like night and day. In fact, I said to this guy why is it? Nobody ever leaves you, everybody wants to be with you. And then hearing him talk the way he did about taking young people to lunch explains it. He just invests in people long beyond what he would gain from it. It's just in the experience of planting the seed. So do that with people. That's a good one.
Speaker 2:The fourth one is display gratitude. Look for ways to bless other people with your time, with your talents, with your energy, with your money. Just look for something just to bless another person's life, and that's, in my mind, a display of gratitude. It's one thing to be grateful and say it all day long, but you don't do anything that shows it. Let somebody cut in front of you on the freeway. Offer people things with your talents that you're gifted at. Maybe it's a smile. You're just a friendly person. Do those kinds of things. I think that would make your joy in life much more real. Yes, and then the last one, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker 2:This started with the topic of why do people lose a feeling of joy as they age? And my last one is start talking more to God. You're going home. You might want to get to know him better because you're going to be there pretty soon. I think that, unfortunately, some people kind of lose that connection, yeah, and over time they've been hurt by it. He didn't do what he thought he should do, those kinds of reactions, and I think they cut off a relationship. Some people I've known they don't want to burden him and I think they don't understand that parents want to be burdened by their kids. They want to care about their kids and know about them. So the last one is spend some more time talking with God. Let him into your life.
Speaker 1:So good, I have one quick question before we sign off.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So if 10, this, Taylor Hartman, I'm using your own weapons on you If 10 is high joy and one is and one is a zero joy, where are you?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm pretty high, I'm probably an eight.
Speaker 1:I didn't ask what medications you were on.
Speaker 2:Well, my wife always thought it has to be medication that got you so happy. I said, no, medications are not good for me, but what does make me happy is life itself. Right? Oh my gosh. Yes, I do feel bad for people who naturally are on lower energy by nature. I do feel bad because they have to push harder for life, yeah.
Speaker 2:So those are our thoughts for today, kat. I want people to regain their sense of joy. I want you to know I do believe it's hard for all of us to sustain that, but in order to do so, we have to own with realistic expectations that we made choices that may enhance or not enhance our outcomes. And then some things just being alive right are difficult. And they say, like getting old is not for sissies. They're right, it's not. I mean, it takes a lot of energy to lose so much and still give back. And so, to our listeners, I hope you're listening to this and I want you to just find the joy, the opportunities to experience joy in your lives. We love having you along for this ride so much, and we'd like to wish you a wonderful holiday season with all the people in your life. We'll talk to you next month. Bye-bye, bye now.