Very Best of Living
Dr. Taylor Hartman, relationship expert and Psychologist, discusses key insights that he has made over his professional career on what makes successful relationships. His work The Color Code now called the People Code is a powerful agent for positive healthy relationships both personal and professional.
Very Best of Living
Revitalizing Relationships through Color Insights
Discover the transformative power of relationships through the colorful insights of Dr. Taylor Hartman, as he joins us to explore his latest work, "Hartman Color Code for Couples." Through an engaging conversation with Cat Larsen, we unravel the profound dynamics of connection, decision-making, and intimacy, all viewed through the vibrant lens of color personalities. Dr. Hartman shares his passionate motivation behind the book, offering practical solutions for everyday relationship challenges. From understanding how the qualities you seek in a partner can shape your marriage, to learning how to be your best self for a healthier union, this episode promises enlightening discussions filled with real-life examples.
Navigate the complex world of boundaries and communication in relationships with us. We'll highlight how recognizing and respecting differences can lead to deeply enriching partnerships, particularly when approached with openness and humility. Listen as Dr. Hartman reflects on a 50-year marriage, emphasizing the roles of commitment, positive communication, and growth in maintaining healthy connections. Learn how acknowledging your partner's strengths and practicing humility can create an environment of mutual respect and understanding. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone seeking to nurture and evolve their relationships through the unique perspective of color blends.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Hello listeners, this is Dr Taylor Hartman. With the Very Best of Living, I'm with my good friend and colleague, Kat Larson. Hello Kat.
Speaker 2:Hi we are excited because we're going to talk about my new book that's out, called Hartman Color Code for Couples, and it's all about relationships. That's what it's about how they interact, what you can expect to go through, depending on your color combination you have, and they're all different, so this should be a fun one. Kat, you've got lots of questions. You're going to ask me going over the book. Yes, and what you're going to ask me going over the book.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And what you're going to find when you discover it and read it. Yes, we are working on the audio. That will be out in the spring. Oh good, so we're excited to announce that as well.
Speaker 1:Nice, well, I have yet to stump you, so not that that's my goal. Understand, but it could happen any time. Goal understand, but it could happen anytime. So can you just talk a little bit, taylor, about what your motivation was for this book? I mean, why now? Why this? I mean, we've got color code, we've got character code, so powerful in its view and application, why did you do this one now?
Speaker 2:You know, I wanted an application, the application of the concepts so people could actually see how they apply in their daily lives, and so we took the concept. I had Darren Clark who did a lot of the research and brought examples of couples and how they interact based on their colors, and I want to address the concepts of how they do a daily decisions and I want to address the concepts of how they do with daily decisions, big decisions, financial decisions and intimacy issues and decisions.
Speaker 2:And those are some of the critical elements of a couple relationship that I thought we should kind of cover for each of the blended colors and how they interact with each other, with each other, and then talk about real life examples of people that have actually done poorly or done well, depending on their character in the relationship with their spouse. So that's the essence of the book it gives you an opportunity to kind of look at something more detached and not feel so personally challenged by it and yet relate to it, because it'll relate to things that you're talking about in your own relationship that's unique to your blend. So that was why I thought it was a good opportunity to give people practical solutions to everyday issues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had an opportunity to read it and go through it and it's been. You're right, application is powerful because you can see yourself in so many of the instances and the examples you guys gave.
Speaker 1:you know in this book, so that was so good. So one of the things that you stated in at the beginning of the book was you know, you get exactly what you deserve when you marry. I'd like you just to expand on that a little bit, because that's just an interesting concept to me. What do you mean? I get what I deserve.
Speaker 2:What does that?
Speaker 1:mean.
Speaker 2:I love that. You asked that. Early in my career, kat, I was very idealistic and I was frustrated with these relationship issues that people had that didn't make sense to me. I'm like why would they have married that person? That didn't make sense to me. I'm like why would they have married that person? Why would they have created that in their life? And I really thought hard and long about this.
Speaker 2:Because so many people decide what they're going to marry when they're young, like 18, 19, 22,. They're making decisions the biggest decision of your life you make at that age about who you're going to be with. And so it frustrated me not to be able to kind of figure out why. Why do people end up in these poor decisions? And then others have these great relationships. And I got a very clear understanding, just an like an inspiration, a sense of people get what they deserve. So I dug into that and what I discovered was, when you marry, what you're looking for you get. So if I am like needy of someone who is going to take care of me financially, I will find that, but then that won't necessarily make me happy. So I know I'm frustrated with why did I end up in this bad relationship Well at the time I married was why did I end up in this bad relationship?
Speaker 2:Well, at the time I married, that was a criteria I was trying to meet, or I'm afraid to speak up and be very direct in life. So I look for somebody who's more assertive. And now in the relationship their assertiveness has become aggression and they're demanding and driving me. I'm like well, why did I end up with this? In the early part of my relationship with them, I wanted that. I'm like well, why did I end up with this? Well, in the early part of my relationship with them, I wanted that. I wanted someone who's decisive and strong and bold. And now it's taken it down a more critical path.
Speaker 2:So you get what you deserve, meaning that if you really look at the integral relationship when they first got together, like maybe they're both into drugs and so they kind of find that's their connection. And then, as they get older, they're like why am I with this person? Well, when you first met, that was a deciding factor for you. I wanted someone who was smart, whatever, if you look back when you first got married, what was it you were looking for to complete you, and that will give you a much better understanding of why you ended up with that Now, on the positive side, it also suggests that if you're looking for really healthy things and you're in a good place, you're probably going to do better in your connection than if you don't have that going for you. So it's really critical I always say to people be your best self when you marry, because it will have lifelong value later on, and I'm sure you, who have been married twice, you can relate to the difference at the first versus the second time.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean right, and I think it takes some soul searching to identify what that is. But that's what it means. And, by the way, I've added a phrase you continue to deserve what you allow. So once you marry, you get what you deserve. But then in a relationship, if you continue to allow behavior whether it's goodness, kindness, sadness, mean, behavior, abuse you choose to allow that in your life. So at every point you are responsible for your relationship, more than you may want to take ownership of.
Speaker 1:So if I started off with I was really insecure and you made me feel secure and maybe that even trumped, I thought that was love, or how much I loved you. Can we transcend that? I mean, like, can a relationship be successful? Can we?
Speaker 2:transcend that. I mean, like can a relationship be successful? Absolutely. Everybody can evolve and change. So on every level there's always the redeeming power of change. But it comes from commitment. Both parties have to be very committed to the overarching marriage that they're committed to. So if that means that I have to change some of my ways, I will do that because I'm committed to that in the relationship or I'm committed to you, and so you absolutely can overwrite that a hundred percent and get it cleaner and better as you go. But most people don't want that and not necessarily do you find both people willing to invest the same way. One may be more willing than the other.
Speaker 1:God, you know it's funny. I don't know if this fits in, but like in terms of willing or looking for, you know the confirmation bias. You know like if I'm looking for something.
Speaker 2:I'm going to find it, even if you're not doing it, I'm going to find it. Right, great Right.
Speaker 1:So Paco and I were just talking about this, because it's like he has here's where he's so great in life and in relationships is that he doesn't do that in a negative way, right? He never looks for negative in me or points out the negative in me. I mean, I'm always the one who's starting the conversation about you know what's wrong.
Speaker 1:And I'm trying not to do that, but it is so true, isn't it? Like if you, if you start out and you start going, oh, this isn't working and he doesn't value me, he doesn't value me, he doesn't value me, no matter what happens. I'm going to look at that, no matter what he does. I'm going to say see, you don't value me.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's such a great insight on your part. The awareness of the bias that you have good or bad right, it does tend to play out You're absolutely right about that, and people spend hours defending their confirmation bias, Like I always knew you'd be this way. Well, you've been spending a lot of time finding ways to prove that too, whereas other people are much more proactive and positive in their confirmation bias. I always believed the best in you. I always needed to figure it out. Yeah, that's a great point. I agree with that.
Speaker 1:So I want you to weave something through right here. If I'm looking at a relationship or a human, is it true that, like, what you see is what you get, and it's like you shouldn't try to change people, right? So take that theory and put it with relationships. So I shouldn't try to change you. I don't like this about what you're doing. It doesn't serve us. I think it hurts our relationship. But you're going to be the way you're going to be, or how do you work that in a relationship? Like, hey, that's just the way I am.
Speaker 2:It's a great question. No, it really is good. There are boundaries, there are limits in terms of lifestyle that you have every right to say that it doesn't work for me and I don't want that in my life, and if the other person chooses to sustain that, then you separate. There really are points in life where it just is not workable for both parties. On the other hand, there's many things that really are like it's irrelevant. You're making it relevant and it really is irrelevant Whether it's somebody that's timely or they don't dress a certain way or they don't work as hard as you think they should. There are people that really kind of impose boundaries that are unnecessary and they make they break relationships unnecessarily, and so I think it's really assessing am I legit? Is my mental health right? Am I legit with this, or am I imposing something that is not rational?
Speaker 1:and not very helpful. Got it and that.
Speaker 2:I think is very critical. Good mental health allows you to decide what things are relevant and legitimate and what things are being superimposed by you that are not, or being imposed on you that are not.
Speaker 1:That's good, so I just need to continue to. We need to continue to work on, as a human race, self-awareness in this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for that. Like why am I so taken by? I mean, I know couples that have broken up because one person liked to ski and the other one didn't. Wow, like, really, because I know other couples that are totally opposite parallels and they love being together but they don't share the same interest in everything the other person does. And, on the other hand, I know people that they are not willing to allow for that. They're like no, I want this and this and this. And they always see it through their eyes and that means you need to change this and this and this. They rarely look at it and say what am I willing to forego? What am I willing to change about me? At the end of the day, you really can't only change you. Ironically, we marry typically the opposite.
Speaker 1:And then we want to change them.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. I'm like the very thing you married them for. You now want to change.
Speaker 1:So let's expand on that a little bit. I really would love you to talk about why we marry our opposites, what we aren't. Why do we do that?
Speaker 2:first of all, you know, honestly, I believe it's a subconscious need to make us complete, Like we don't want to necessarily compete with ourselves. So we marry what we're not and they bring to the table things that we subconsciously need from another person, which is great. I mean, that's really what a marriage should be. Right Is a completion. You're better together than you were separate. Obviously, when you're not better together than you were separate, you're in a bad marriage. It's not a good thing. But when you can actually enhance your life by engaging somebody else, so it's one plus one equals seven. It's a synergy, not just one plus one equals two. But if you're in a relationship and one plus one equals minus three, you're in a bad relationship. It's not really healthy. But you're looking for somebody who brings a different perspective, different appreciation for life than you have Like, for example, with me. I have a wife who loves to decorate. I don't decorate at all, so it enhances the quality of my life by her decoration orientation.
Speaker 1:Oh, so so you and Jean are opposites. Right, okay, and has that ever been an obstacle?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. Oh, often. I mean it's often like are you kidding? You see it? What way? Absolutely, there's no question about that.
Speaker 2:But the beauty of that is is typically one of us will then alter our perspective and change an orientation. For example, when people don't pick up after themselves. That was more me at the beginning of a relationship. I now pick up after myself. I just chose a better path, right, it's not a bad thing to be opposite. It's a bad thing when you're stuck and you can't seem to allow for the differences or somebody doesn't make an effort to improve.
Speaker 2:Another one for me was I was I'm so positive and she would like wake up and I'd be singing and she's like what on earth is happening here, and so she had to come to embrace. My positive was actually good for her. It was a proactive thing that enhanced the quality of her life as opposed to being irritated by it. I can't imagine you don't have differences when you have different colors that are marrying and different genders. Right, men and women see things differently. So I think if you don't have an openness to the different perspective they bring, you tend to live a more limited life and, by the way, I've discovered people that don't marry early in life tend to become very biased against it. They're so comfortable with their own way of living that to embrace a difference with somebody else is very hard for them than when you're younger. To be honest with you.
Speaker 1:So when you spoke about commitment, you know that's wrapped around commitment when you are committed to, because I know you've seen. You've seen people that have worked things out and transcended this, and you've seen people that can't work it out right.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 1:And what would you? What would you say? The people that can't work it out, don't do this uh, the people that don't work it out.
Speaker 2:Number one they're not humble, okay. They are so biased about them, right and the other person's wrong humility okay, they are not willing to embrace how. Maybe they're the problem. They can't see those elements in them. There's also the issue of there really are people who what they buy like.
Speaker 2:I've known couples, for example, where someone is a spendthrift and they really put them into debt so often that the other person has said I have been stressed my whole life, trying to keep up with the Joneses because that's how you want to live. I can't live that way anymore. And in all fairness, I agree with them. Those behaviors have been unacceptable in my mind because they're putting a stress on somebody who doesn't need that and it's not a mentally healthy, good thing to focus on. So in some ways it's good to set those boundaries that say it doesn't work for me because I'm more in pain being with you than without you.
Speaker 2:On the other hand, there's people who are asking good things of you, like get a job that you can commit to and go to. There's nothing wrong with asking that of a spouse, and if the person is not willing to play ball, then you can absolutely say it doesn't fit my lifestyle, I don't want that in my life. Or there's another couple I work with where the parents of the boy don't like her, they don't want her in their life and he had to learn to step up and speak up for her, or she wasn't going to stay, she goes. I feel like I'm abused every time we go to them and finally he stood up and said she's my priority, you're not, and if you don't embrace her then you lose me, because I'm not giving her up. But it took him stepping up to that and her demanding of him before they could make the relationship work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of your concepts in the in the you know get self, get truth, get over yourself. You know, get over yourself. How do you do that in a healthy way? Can you just give us a couple application points in that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think every time we have a limitation, we have to see what we're getting out of it, because we're getting something or we wouldn't do it. And if love does not trump that, then you're going to actually go the wrong direction by meeting your needs in an unhealthy mentally unhealthy position at the expense of the other person. And so it's just that there's. You know, scott Peck always said the discipline is the basis for good mental health, and you really can't have a good mental health life if you don't have discipline. So if you're doing something that is undisciplined and unhealthy, you have to discipline yourself, to change your focus, change your behavior to make it work, behavior to make it work.
Speaker 2:And all of us can relate to this, because every one of us have had to grow up in our lives and add dimensions of discipline at different stages of life. I see that, even with couples that are getting older, kathy, that there's just people that just can't seem to stay current and they won't do the things that need to be done as you age and so they become stuck. I see that with young people who are financially strapped and they can't seem to assess that, okay, I'm no longer being covered by my parents. I need to step up and be covered by myself, and they lack the discipline to do that, so they stay stuck and remain living at home, taking advantage of the parents because they can't find a way to make it okay on their own. I just think it's very critical we understand about humility and discipline. Those are both very critical elements in change.
Speaker 1:You know, I've been working on that discipline. You know, do you still work on discipline in your life?
Speaker 2:I do Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:I think it's one of the biggest problems yellows have. I do too.
Speaker 1:And I realized that what happens is I'm not very good at self-regulation, like in the, in the emotional intelligence stuff. So I think, about this and I think about going. Okay, I feel it and I do it, and then that's the place where the commitment and the discipline comes in, because I my feelings trump a lot of things that are not good for you Because you're more emotion-based right. Yeah, so. So I love, I love what you're giving us in terms of, like, look at this and put this into place.
Speaker 2:You know that, and but and you know, kat, like you were saying, there's so much for each of us to work on. Yeah, why are we wasting all the energy on somebody else? Amen that we really can't change anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, it can happen, right. Right, and I mean people change because of others. Right, I mean you've changed because of your wife.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, A hundred percent. I love the influence people have had in my life on so many different levels, influence people have had in my life on so many different levels. One of the things you've done is your humility has been very impressionable on me. I have loved your willingness to look in the mirror and say okay, I think that's on me, I want to work on that. I've loved that about you. So I think people can do it not even knowing they're influencing others. I think of somebody else who's always on time. I think of another person who always asks well, how are you doing? I'm just, I just. They impress me. They don't even know it, I don't tell them, but I am so impressed by it. It's very enhancing of my life.
Speaker 1:Oh well, thanks, Thank you, that's. That's really great to hear that. That doesn't. And that's the other thing. When you see something about somebody in your relationship, that's great. Tell them like I have that up on my mirror, you know, like my mirror thing. It's like tell them why they're special, because we don't hear it. I don't think we hear it as much anymore.
Speaker 2:And maybe we never did. No, you hear what's wrong. Yes, you don't hear what's right, and even people who hear what's right seem to dismiss it.
Speaker 1:Yes, you don't really mean that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I do mean that.
Speaker 1:Yes, all right, I'm going to focus on that. That's good, okay. So this is powerful. So in the book you're set up and it's like red, red, red, blue, red, white and you kind of give the overview and then you give really great real life things that are that have happened and how you walk through them and then your insights on it. It's just a great tool to have in your hand. I have in a relationship. So the next question is this in a relationship, if things that I might think of as failure you know, it's that Jerry Maguire movie. I don't know if you ever saw it, but the the football players telling Jerry Maguire cause he's a sports agent, he's like, you know, you think we're fighting and I think we're just starting to communicate. Yeah, you know that. I'd love you to to expound a little bit on when something feels like a failure in a relationship making sure we put a growth. You know what is failure and what is growth? Making sure we put a growth.
Speaker 2:You know what is failure and what is growth, like that spectrum. Well, first of all, I don't think you've ever failed until you are divorced. I don't feel that way. There's always room for evolving or growing a new understanding. There's always room for that, and I don't like to put a period or an exclamation mark on someone's life or their relationship until they decide it's done and hopefully, if that ever happens, it happens because of a good thing, like there's just the period should be that it's not enhancing or life affirming anymore, and I want that in my life. So I'm going to seek that elsewhere and I'm doing it with a clean heart, like I'm not the one who is unwilling to change and grow and evolve. The other person is not, and I think that if people could be more cognizant of what are the things that I want to have intention paid to in my own life, they would feel much more progress and movement than if they keep complaining about things that really they have no power over anyway.
Speaker 1:Good, okay, I've got one more, but there's several parts to it, at least three Ready. You have to come up with the three. So so you know, I kind of like I think it's good to put bullet points on things. So what like three key things that are most important in relationships, and you've said some humility, commitment, discipline, but what like put the, put them in priority in your mind? Like what do you see the first top one being second one being third one?
Speaker 2:being Number one make the other person win. What can you do to make them successful? How can you make them feel good about themselves? There's so many different aspects of life you can do to help the other person feel like they're winning and that you want them to win, as opposed to I don't really care if you win or not, or, of course, you can't win, you're inadequate or it's such a different focus. So that's number one.
Speaker 2:Number two is be present. Like I'm so disgusted with social media in the damage it has done to being present with relationships, and I think it's sad that nowadays we actually are so impressed when a family has dinner together. It's just so sad that we've gotten to the place now where either we all want to eat different foods or we want to watch TV while we're doing it, or we have schedules that make it impossible to connect. So I think being present is a really, really big piece of what makes relationships work and makes them healthy. So set aside opportunities to be very present whenever you're with certain people and in your family or in your friends, in your life.
Speaker 2:And then the third one is to be humble, I think really being teachable. Every phase of life brings new challenges and differences that you have to kind of work through. I suppose we all would like not to have those, but I also think life's a little boring when you don't have challenges to address and I just think being humble about okay, if I need help in doing that, who can I go to to give me feedback, ideas about that? Or am I maybe looking at things wrong? Maybe I should change the way I approach something. So being humble is probably the third one I'd give.
Speaker 1:You've been married how long, Taylor?
Speaker 2:50 years in March.
Speaker 1:Oh my heavens.
Speaker 2:I know, and honestly, it was not destined to be wonderful because I was so uncommitted. And here we are, 50 years later.
Speaker 1:So, do you and if you don't mind, if it's too personal, say move on. Do you guys still like? Do you guys still go through stuff Like?
Speaker 2:do you still have arguments or do you still have? Oh, I think this. I see that yeah, not like we used to. It's much more subtle and more easily resolved today. It's kind of nice I've thought about that with couples that are still kind of at each other as you get older. It's just not, you don't have the energy for it, and so when I see these angry couples that are like their 70s and 80s, I'm thinking where do you find the energy to sustain that kind of hostility?
Speaker 1:We don't have that, which is so nice. Well, what's so beautiful is the man who wrote the color code for couples is doing it beautifully. So you know you're in good hands. I mean because you have one of the best relationships I've seen, you know.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate that and I hope our listeners can appreciate that we are in this business because we believe in it and we do believe in practicing what we preach. That was fun to do. The interview on the book it was a wonderful thing to write. I'm glad to have it done. As you all know, I'm a talker more than I like to be isolated and writing, but it's an opportunity for you to really look at your relationship and figure out ways to improve and enhance the person you're married to. That'll do it for today. We hope you had a good time with us. Thanks for joining us, as always, kat, always a pleasure to be with you. Thank you all and we'll see you next month.
Speaker 1:Thanks, you guys.
Speaker 2:Bye now.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.