Very Best of Living
Dr. Taylor Hartman, relationship expert and Psychologist, discusses key insights that he has made over his professional career on what makes successful relationships. His work The Color Code now called the People Code is a powerful agent for positive healthy relationships both personal and professional.
Very Best of Living
True mental health requires accountability, not excuses.
Dr. Taylor Hartman and Cat Larson explore the critical connection between mental health and personal accountability, challenging the notion that circumstances rather than choices determine our wellbeing. They discuss how society's increasing focus on comfort and validation has created a generation struggling with resilience and personal responsibility.
• Busy people accomplish more while those with abundant time often struggle with motivation
• Taking ownership of your life is the foundation of good mental health
• Making excuses and shifting blame indicates deeper psychological issues
• People seeking mental health often surround themselves with others who don't hold them accountable
• Clean motives—aiming for mutual benefit in all interactions—are essential for wellbeing
• Looking outward and helping others is more healing than endless self-examination
• Comfort-seeking behaviors and excessive protection from parents can create fragility
• Building resilience requires facing challenges rather than avoiding them
• Common sense is the greatest gift in mental health but is often overlooked
Fight for the right to be here and recognize that life's challenges are opportunities for growth, not proof that something is wrong.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Hello listeners. This is Dr Taylor Hartman, with Very Best of Living, and I'm with my good friend Kat Larson. Hi, kat.
Speaker 3:Good morning, taylor. I sound a little funny today because I am a little funny, just so you know. Well, no, you're always a lot funny, but today you're a little off. I am a little off, so you know, you just have to kick me back into play.
Speaker 2:All right. Yeah well, you don't feel right. You know, honestly, for our listeners, it really is interesting when you're not at your best, and Kat and I were talking earlier this morning about how hard it is for people that are rarely at their best physically like just not up to par and they have these nagging sensations that bother them. And I just I think it's really important that we have. When we have good health, we appreciate it, because when you don't have it, you really appreciate what it feels like when you have it right.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and the fact that I'm so impatient with it.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, yes, well you're physically fit, and so when you're not, it's like people who are well-built and strong in life and they age. Yes, and they're like what?
Speaker 2:I'm not as strong as I used to be. I can't lift things I used to lift so early. People have great eyesight. I mean, once that goes and you've had great eyesight, you're like this is horrible. But for us that have struggled with eyesight most of our life, it's like no, you just kind of manage around it. So I think it's almost a curse when you're actually blessed to be so good with something and then lose it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was thinking about that this morning because I think it's funny that I use I'm going to stop doing it. I'm like you know, oh my gosh, I'm 60s and I'm, you know, looking at life and I'm getting old and then, and I'm thinking you know that's got to do something negatively to how I approach my age. So I've got to fix that. I've got to quit thinking about things, you know.
Speaker 2:Because it spirals.
Speaker 3:It does.
Speaker 2:And what's really sad is people tend to find other people who are like that and then feed it Right and then it gets even more bad, right. So it's very good insight on your part. In fact, our topic today, which is about mental health, is very similar in my thinking. In terms of physical health, it can spiral just the same way. For example, if you want to get something done, who do you give it to? The busiest person always has to make time to get things done, but they do. But you watch people who are not very busy and it is unbelievable, kat, how they just do less and less and less, and yet they don't have the energy, they don't have the motivation, the drive. The managing of life seems to spiral out, so that they're not necessarily even making good decisions or showing up or pushing their agenda, because they have so much time, I'll get around to it and they don't, whereas the busy person has to find a slot for it and makes things happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is so true. And it's like when you're not busy it becomes a I don't know is that a habitual thing Like I feel normal when I'm not busy or I'm just going to live here because this is what feels right to me, that I'm not busy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're right about that. Over time and not long I'm talking like two or three weeks all of a sudden it becomes your pattern and your habit. That's exactly right. And it always intrigues me. When I'm talking with a client and I'm suggesting they do something, I can almost always tell they will or they won't. Almost always Just how they engage the response to my recommendation I can tell.
Speaker 3:What do you hear from people that don't usually follow through? I?
Speaker 2:hear excuses. I hear a lack of interest. I hear excuses, I hear lack of interest. I hear reasons why it may not make all the sense because of other reasons, and I hear them tell me about other priorities they have. It's so interesting to me it becomes very clear they are not on the same page that I am.
Speaker 2:And it's their mental health I'm talking about. It's their life that's not working. I was talking to someone recently who did not have a great job and did not have housing. My bottom line was you have to get housing. You're going to be living in a car if you don't get housing. But helping her figure out what that meant and looked like, to get on the phone and find a place to stay was less pivotal than anything else in her life, including her dog or her part-time job.
Speaker 2:I'm like you're not urgent, You're not in the moment at all, looking at what needs to happen, and I find that with students in college that I work with, I'll say to them so where are you at with your education? I don't know. I've talked to my advisor but they were not really helpful, and last time I scheduled a call they didn't show up. And I'm like what is happening here? Like you or your parents are paying thousands of dollars to get an education and you have no idea the track you're on, you have no idea the direction you're going or how long it's going to take, and so it's that lack of ownership and clarity. It's interesting.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about this. If you want to see someone who may have evil intentions and evil is always tied to insecurity notice that they will never take ownership or accountability when they mess up ever. They will always excuse it. There's always a justification. There's never of I was wrong, I'm sorry, and the reason for that is they're so insecure they can't take a hit. So you can always tell if there's a negative design in a person's life, because they will never actually just own the problem and say I'm sorry. And here's what I want to do to fix that Right.
Speaker 3:So is the only way to do that is to start. I mean, like, do you coach people in your with your clients? Do you coach people to start taking the hits.
Speaker 2:I am huge on accountability on everything. For example, when I schedule an appointment, I don't call and remind them. Start taking the hits. I am huge on accountability on everything. For example, when I schedule an appointment, I don't call and remind them. Are you kidding? You're an adult, you made an appointment, I expect you to show up. And it was early on in my career. It was very interesting.
Speaker 2:People would challenge that and I would say then don't come see me, I'm not going to nursemaid you. I mean, if you want to get help and you ask somebody to set an appointment of their time, then you need to respect that and come at a time you agree to. And it's amazing how quickly that transformed my clientele. Like they were very quick. They understood as soon as I said I'm not going to play this game. They were good about it.
Speaker 2:But until that point several were like well, I thought you cared more and they were just twisted so that I'm the guilty party. I'm not calling to remind them of an appointment they agreed to. So I don't have that problem today at all. It's wonderful. But I do think that people need to be held accountable. If you say to somebody are you going to do this and they say yes and then they don't. There are consequences for that and I think we're seeing that, for example, in america and some of the college campuses right now, where there were no accountability for anything that went on disruption of classes, breaking of windows um harassing jewish students none of that, yes was ever with consequence, ever.
Speaker 2:now, when people are having consequences, like they're withdrawing their academia credits and their certificates and their degrees, and they're making them pay attention to a consequence, they're outraged because they haven't been for a year, they haven't been allowed to run amok. The same is true of people in our lives. When we let ourselves run amok for too long, we actually become victims and get angry when we're held accountable, which is the craziest thing in the world to me, because we are the ones that have been doing it for all this time Right right?
Speaker 3:Well, and I have a question about that. So one side is the people that don't do enough, and then on the other side, the healthy versus unhealthy of somebody who's doing everything, like the busiest person. Give it to somebody who's busiest and that person who keeps busy because of several reasons. How do you find that healthy place with a busy person? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:But I think the busy person has to learn to balance, like, sometimes, their actions. It's just activity, it's not necessarily meaningful, and so what is probably a C-level importance? They're doing it at an A-level, everything's A-level. And you're right, I have many, many people in my life that I have worked with that are very sharp, very gifted, very driven, and their problem is that they find their legitimacy in that. People in my life that I have worked with that are very sharp, very gifted, very driven, and their problem is that they find their legitimacy in that. That makes them feel more important.
Speaker 2:The healthiest ones they did that study of CEOs and the healthiest CEOs, most successful ones, had private hobbies that they did. They offset their busy schedules with that, and so I think that it's very important you find that balance across the board. I personally I don't know which one's harder, because people that are really busy have a real hard time slowing down and smelling the roses, and people who are lazy and unmotivated have a hard time picking it up. But I would probably take the busier ones because they're more motivated. Right, but even they struggle with that idea.
Speaker 3:Do you tend to be that busy person?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure. My whole life I've been that way. Well, you figure, I was working full-time literally until 76 years old and loved it. I loved being involved and going and doing. I like slowing down. Now it's kind of fun to be able to take more time to go play music, my grandkids or whatever else, but I've always been more of a get up and go. What about you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah yeah, I struggle with kind of sitting around not doing. I need to be doing something Because I look at it as like fun stuff too, because work is fun, right? I mean, if you're lucky enough to have work, that's fun. If you choose something and then just going and doing stuff I love. Yeah, I'm a little judgmental about people that aren't that way. I'm working on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you're a busy person, you see lazy people. They bother you. But it's so funny because whenever I go to Hawaii to visit my daughter, I'm always stunned by the pace that Hawaiians move at. And no, it's not for me, but on the other hand, what a loving environment, right. So you're right, they both have good.
Speaker 2:I think it goes back to the issue of motive. Yes, like, why am I that way? Yes, and I do think culture drives some of that. For sure, like, there's certain cultures that are driven to be very busy and engaging and active and others are more laid back. I also think it has to do with the culture within yourself. What are you born to be? What are you like?
Speaker 2:An interesting question that I was going to raise for our listeners is do you think you were born fragile or did society and structure of culture lend itself to teach you to be fragile? And I, honestly, I look at people. I was in Africa and I remember an old woman dragging her tarp out to the village square to sell something up a hill and I said to her how do you do it? And she said to me if I don't, I won't eat. And I thought to myself so that is real motivating.
Speaker 2:Today, when I look at youth, I think parents have done a great disservice by suggesting you don't have to be that motivated, you can always come home, I'll take care of you. And they're saying this not just to 18 year olds, but to 28 year olds, and so I do think we've done a very big disservice to our children in suggesting they don't have to unless they want to, and I don't think that's good for the person, for anybody. I think people need to feel like I need to because I want to, and I don't think that's good for the person, for anybody. I think people need to feel like I need to because I want to be a productive member of society. They say there are three things you have to do to have a successful life. One is meaningful work, two is someone to love and three is a cause you can commit to. Yes, and I don't think you find those in being lazy or fragile or woe is me or victim. I don't think you find that. So I worry a lot about my field of mental health, kat, I just I am so frustrated with so many professionals that live by labels and hide behind the latest fad that's going on as opposed to using. Truly.
Speaker 2:The greatest gift of mental health is common sense. That is truly the greatest gift, and many therapists don't have common sense. They don't look at it something and say A does not equal B, therefore something's wrong with A or B. They look at it and say, well, that's not fair or that's not right, or your childhood messed you up for life. Or they justify why people are living below the level of quality of living. They don't teach forgiveness, for example. They justify it, big mistakes, for example, if there's someone that you're involved with who's a narcissist, there are ways to deal with a narcissist. Learn those. Don't just say, well, he or she's a narcissist. Learn how to manage that. Now, if it's somebody in your life that you can get rid of, that's great. If not, like a family member or whatever, then learn to manage that. That's good mental health. And the reason for that is common sense tells you, if I'm going to engage somebody, I should know how to play with the rules. That will help me win, as opposed to be taken advantage of or put down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know it is that fragility or comfort, or you know how we got into this comfort thing and I will tell you I am guilty of that too with my kids. You know both my kids have student loans and I'm just so worried about them paying it and I'm like you know they made the decision to go to school and do this and and just the comfort conversation. You know how we got to this. We all want to be so comfortable.
Speaker 2:Oh so good? No, and you're, and you're right. I love the candor you have there of I feel guilty because I can't pay them off for them or help them with them or whatever, which is a comfortable place to go right, but it's not healthy. And so we actually take away from them the opportunity to rise and get good mental health and do their own work, live their own life. We take that away from them and you all I mean anybody any listener has known someone who has taken care of financially knows that rarely do people like that rise rarely. Most people who don't have to find their own way pay their own dues. Most people like that don't find they contribute much to society.
Speaker 2:So I think it's really, really important that we stop and think maybe discomfort isn't the end of the world. Well, and anyone that gets any kind of aging that's going on knows it's not comfortable. It's much less comfortable in many ways than other things. But every old person will tell you it's not for sissies, but the alternative. They don't care for right. So the reality is, if you didn't develop those skills early on, it's much harder to pick them up when you're older. So it's very critical we teach. I mean discipline is the basis of all mental health. You must say I can take care of myself, I can do what needs to be done. If you can't say that, then you are vulnerable to having more poor mental health, and usually people with poor mental health seek people that don't hold them accountable. They seek people who make it okay for them to make poor choices, which allows them to spiral further away from good mental health.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's so you know, looking at what, just using your tools, you know, in our business, in life in our business, in life and it is moving people past the overthinking of it and the continual healing that people and I'm not saying people shouldn't heal, I'm just saying, boy, can we get caught in that conversation for a long?
Speaker 2:time, just because you feel it doesn't mean it's right.
Speaker 3:Right, right time.
Speaker 2:Just because you feel it doesn't mean it's right, right, right. But you're right. It bothers me how we've taken something that is so critical to quality of life, it is so pivotal, and yet we have construed it with weird kind of theories and excuses and rationalizations, rather than saying no, there are principles that are true, whether you like them or not, and if you don't discipline yourself to adhere to those, you will suffer poor mental health period, and it's I don't know why. It's easier maybe to see it physically, but obviously if you make poor choices on what you eat or lack of movement, you will suffer poor mental health. Physical health right, right. It's no different with mental health. If you allow yourself to keep holding a grudge and not letting go of it, it will cause you to have poor mental health and, quite frankly, it's not common sense. Things that you're doing that are destructive are not common sense. They may make sense to you because you're hurt, but they don't justify why you would stay there if you want to have good mental health.
Speaker 2:So there are principles that I live by. One of them you know very well is clean motives, like why you do what you do is at the core of every interaction you'll ever have. And if my motive for engaging you on this podcast is for me to win and you to lose, it's a dirty motive. If my motive is for you to win at my expense and me to lose, it's a dirty motive. The only clean motive is if we both win. That's it, and so every time I interact with somebody, I'm always looking to see if my motives are clean. I don't want to have an agenda that works to my advantage at their expense or vice versa, and if they're coming from that place, which is a dirty motive, then I need to know that so that I can maintain my clean motives without losing my balance and deferring to them on every interaction, every single one.
Speaker 3:You know you're talking and it seems so, so clear. And then we get into all these other things where I feel like that I or whoever can hide out right Like you can hide out in in um, what happened to me when I was a kid?
Speaker 3:you can hide out in, not and and again I get there are some absolutely real things about some of those diagnoses, right, yeah, but I think it's a good thing to stop and go. No, wait a minute. When you look at right now what's going on in mental health, like we're talking about, what are some of the things that you think are causing more harm than leading people to good mental health?
Speaker 2:The most critical one in my mind is not taking accountability for your life Right. Wherever you are and whatever you're doing right now, what is it you need to own? And every time you say, well, I could, but I can't because this, you're in trouble every single time. If you can say, here's what I can do today to make my life work, then you're starting the path of good mental health. And every time you use an excuse of I don't really want to own that, I'm not really comfortable taking responsibility for that right now, like, for example, let's talk about divorce. I mean, as long as somebody is getting divorced and can't own their part in it or how they are going to be different, moving forward, so the next relationship's better. They have poor mental health, but the divorce may have been the best thing that ever happened, but they have to step into that and grow from it and learn from it. I honestly think, kat, life is about growing and becoming, and you can't do that if you don't have problems. You just can't. There's no way you can evolve if you're not given the opportunity by facing problems Right. So it's not so much the acts like parents that are abusive divorce drugs it's not so much that it's more like okay. So what is my role in this? What can I do to make myself better?
Speaker 2:I think about this couple where this man, he just did not love his wife and it hurt her so deeply for so long and finally I watched her step up and say well, that's his loss. I've been wanting this for so long, waiting for it to happen and not living my life. That is on me. I can't do that anymore and I mean to watch this woman evolve from that place. Truly, the victim to the hero was life-changing and the husband was so stunned that he almost was shocked. He lost all his power, there was no power anymore and he seemed pathetic. Like what a joke. I mean, you have this great lady in your life that you have not valued for so long, and now she has finally realized she's valuable. And guess what? You missed the opportunity. She didn't leave him, they didn't divorce, but their relationship changed dramatically, like dramatically, and he was playing catch up, just trying to catch up with who she was and what she was about, because all his life he had been holding with his and holding himself back with his judgment and lack of ability to love.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, I have to tell you this incredibly great little story. A baker, a young baker guy, was in the uh, the trains going to auschwitz and it was a freezing time and there was an old man who was just struggling to stay alive. He probably wasn't going to make it to the camp and so all night long they rubbed each other's hands and backs to where literally the hands were numb in those cattle cars they were on, and when they got there, every person in their cab had frozen to death except those two, and the reason they didn't was they spent their energy trying to warm somebody else, make them survive, and I think that's a great example of what good mental health is. What are you doing in your life to make other lives work better? What things is your life about that enhance the quality of other people's lives? And if your response and your thought right now is that, well, I would do that, but I'm struggling so much right now I can't really thinking about anyone else.
Speaker 2:You got poor mental health. Just know that you're looking the wrong way. Yes, and that's like a very basic tenant of good mental health. Instead, many of us that are therapists actually invite you to stay stuck looking inside and examining the hair in your navel Like hello, that's not going to make you better. You've got to start realizing that life is not only about you and what your needs are, but people around you and how you can enhance the quality of their life, and that will lift you from your own trauma. Every time I'm struggling with something, I swear to you, it just seems like I'm given a gift of somebody who has far more reason to struggle. I'm like, oh my gosh, how hard must this be? And it puts my mind more in perspective every single time. Well, if I'm never looking outward, I'm only looking inward. I never see that right.
Speaker 3:Well, that's really true. I was talking to McKenna, my daughter, about this, because she was like we were talking about what is hard, like what makes things hard.
Speaker 3:And she's like it's just hard and I go well, yeah, why do you think you're here? We were talking about that. And she's like well, what do you mean? I'm like honey. The only way to build resilience is when things are hard, and they do have whoever has. I don't know if it's just my kid's age, but there is this expectation that something's wrong. It's not wrong, it's your life, figured out.
Speaker 2:I think we've done that to them Honestly. Our society has said it's a participation medal, Just like you got here, means you get a medal and it's like no, no, no. That's not the way it works. You have to push through problems, you have to fight for the right to be here and I don't think oh, that's so good.
Speaker 3:Fight for the right to be here.
Speaker 2:I think it's. You know it's such life is such a privilege, and if you don't see it for that and are willing to do your due diligence to make it that, then that's on you all right. We got a clip for today cat I know it ends up so such good listeners. We love you. We hope you're having a good life and you're fighting for the right to be here, and we will talk to you next month. Love you guys. Bye now, bye.