Very Best of Living
Dr. Taylor Hartman, relationship expert and Psychologist, discusses key insights that he has made over his professional career on what makes successful relationships. His work The Color Code now called the People Code is a powerful agent for positive healthy relationships both personal and professional.
Very Best of Living
Choose Your Hard
What if the question isn't whether to choose an easy or difficult path, but rather which difficult path will lead to your greatest growth? Dr. Taylor Hartman tackles this profound question in a thought-provoking exploration of life's inevitable challenges and how we navigate them.
Drawing inspiration from M. Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled" and its opening statement that "life is difficult," Dr. Hartman introduces a powerful framework through the refrain "Choose your hard." Marriage is hard. Divorce is hard. Choose your heart. Education is hard. Being uneducated is hard. Choose your hard. These paired statements reveal the truth that difficulty is inevitable, but the right kind of difficulty leads to growth, strength, and ultimately, joy.
The conversation with colleague Cat Larson delves into why we often remain unaware of our dysfunctional patterns until they cause breakdowns in our lives. They discuss how modern therapy sometimes enables victimhood rather than building resilience, and how developing a clear moral definition helps establish boundaries that protect our wellbeing. Using the Color Code personality framework, Dr. Hartman explains how different personality types need to blend logic and emotion for balanced growth—teaching logical types to embrace feelings and emotional types to incorporate rational thinking.
Perhaps most importantly, Dr. Hartman emphasizes that growth is sequential. The challenges we face in each life stage prepare us for greater responsibilities ahead. Those who avoid necessary difficulties find themselves unprepared when life inevitably presents bigger challenges. By choosing the "right hard" at each stage, we develop the strength to live fully and authentically.
Ready to transform how you view life's difficulties? Listen now to discover how choosing the right challenges can lead to your most fulfilling life. Leave us a comment about which "hard choice" has led to your greatest growth!
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Hello listeners. This is Dr Taylor Hartman, with the Very Best of Living, which is exactly what we hope you get from our podcast. I'm with my good friend and colleague, Kat Larson. Hello, Kat.
Speaker 1:Hi Taylor.
Speaker 2:Nice to hear your voice as always, you too, you too.
Speaker 2:It's always a pleasure to do this with you and I hope we're leaving our listeners with some positive help in just getting through the daily life and what life is all about. Today I have a very interesting kind of intro I want to go with. I heard this poem that I loved and it said choose your heart, choose your heart. And then it went something like this Now it reminded me in the back of the day. Scott Peck wrote a groundbreaking work in the field of psychology and relationships called the Road Less Traveled, and his initial statement starts in the book with life is difficult and it's interesting. I don't know that people accept the fact that life is difficult Like it's joyous, it's beautiful, it's incredibly wonderful actually and it's also difficult. Every part of life has its challenges right, every stage in life, every season of life, and so when I heard this poem, I thought back to Scott Peck's work and I thought about it in terms of my clients that I work with and I wanted to share just some of the thoughts that resonated with me. So in the poem it said marriage is hard, divorce is hard. Choose your heart. Education is hard, being uneducated is hard. Choose your heart, forgiveness is hard. Lacking forgiveness and holding resentment is also hard. Choose your heart. Having children is hard, not having children is hard. Choose your heart. And I'm telling you, kat, when I heard that wasn't exactly what the poem was, I added my own dimension to it, but the essence of it I loved so much because I realized that we all have choices to make and they're always hard, but there's a benefit that you gain from choosing the right heart, the healthy heart, for the right motive. And it's interesting. I just went to my doctor for my annual checkup and I was talking to her about this Achilles tendon, which is sore and it needs some rehab right now, which of course, keeps me from my pickleball game, which I hate. But she said it's the price for being active. And I thought well, there it is again. Choose your heart. I can either be active and now I have to rehab my Achilles tendon or you could be inactive and suffer from not being physically fit. But either one is a heart, and so I think, as life comes at us, we have to accept the fact that it's going to be hard. Either way, choose the one that benefits you the most in your life. If you make the wrong choices or you think you're going to take the easier route.
Speaker 2:I'll use the example of education as one of my favorites, because I've always understood the value of it in my life. It's been such a rich opportunity to learn about other dimensions in life that I would never even touched on my own, and being with people who speak of different things differently than I would understand, and it's been so informative to me. Plus, it gave me a career that I have thrived in. I have loved it. I've worked with people all my entire life because I chose to be educated.
Speaker 2:And now I see people who are taking another path, not choosing to be educated in a career, in a blue-collar skill base, something that allows you to bring gifts to society, and they take a pass early on. And then, when they're 60, they're still trying to recoup or survive in a world because they are uneducated. So which one's harder spending the time up front or spending the time in the rest of your life? So I'm a strong advocate for people doing their work up front, especially when they're young and single. I am wasting those years and then getting coming to the table later.
Speaker 2:Maybe you have a wife or a husband or children and you have to make ends meet to pay for rent. Those are much harder times to do that very thing you could have done earlier in life. So those are some thoughts that I was just thinking about in terms of helping my clients choose the hard that best enables them to live their best life. It's just not always easily done and sadly our society has promoted people not doing that. They've actually moved people into a softer foray, so they don't really push themselves to reach out and struggle. They actually push them to take the easier path and I find that that has been hugely detrimental to mental health in our society.
Speaker 1:Do you have a reason why you think they did like the easy way? Why do you think that happened?
Speaker 2:I think it became a cultural thing. I think we actually bought into the concept, this whole idea, for example, of gentle parenting, which is absurd. It is absolutely insane. And yet there are therapists that promote gentle parenting, which means you never hold your child responsible. You try and nudge them towards a correct path and when they don't, you just keep nudging. You don't ever take responsibility and say no, this is not going to work, here's what you need to do and giving them direction.
Speaker 2:So, on many aspects of our society, I think we've allowed this nonsense to go on. You see it, for example, in Europe today, where they actually they don't have free speech. It's gone. How did that happen? Well, people allowed the society to teach them it's not right to stand up for things that are correct, and we've done that. In America, we've done some of the same stuff. I have to be honest with you.
Speaker 2:There's a psychologist speaking recently and he was telling him that he felt that in our field of mental health, perhaps two-thirds of licensed psychologists are charlatans. They are not legit. They do not help people get better and stronger. They simply agree with the patient that they are traumatized and that was unfortunate for them. I'm sorry, like that would do anything for them becoming bolder, being more responsible, taking charge of their life. It does not do that for them, but sadly many psychologists who knows what the motivations are they may feel hurt themselves, so they want someone to align with them. They may want to not lose their client or their patient, so they agree with them, so the patient will come back.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've lost several patients over the years that just did not want to hear the truth. They just were not interested in getting stronger. They wanted a sympathetic ear that agreed with why they were hurting, right, and so they didn't stay with me because I was like no, no, we all get hurt. We're all traumatized. Everybody has issues in life. Life is hard for everybody, some harder than others. Some are better built for life than others, I agree with that. But it doesn't matter. At some point either you suit up to fight life and live with life or you lose. It's like the tide it takes you away and unfortunately I'm not respectful of that in my profession. I think you've done a very poor job of holding people accountable and teaching them skills to enable them to live in life successfully.
Speaker 1:I think when you're talking the thing that kind of blew my mind the last couple of months, we had talked a little bit about Paco going through some major awareness, about Paco going through some major awareness and my come from before this happened in my home with my husband my closest person is he knows that he's just choosing away from it. He's not choosing the hard. But what I learned, at least in this instance and I'd love to hear your views on it what I learned was he didn't even know he wasn't choosing the right thing.
Speaker 1:Good point Good point and what I think is important for and my thing was like well, you just, you know it's there, you're just not doing, you're just not doing it. And it was it's like once he went through it and he got help and it was lifted from his eyes whatever was over his eyes. He was like I didn't see it. I thought I was. I was at this place where I thought I was doing it all until everything broke. I mean, it fell apart the last three months and he had to rebuild it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just I got a little humbled because I was like, well, you're doing this on purpose, because you don't want to, and he wasn't.
Speaker 2:Nope, no, not at all. That's very good insight. You know what's sad about that cat? And I have another client, exactly like Paco, that's been through the same dynamic and until he almost died physically because of the trauma that he was going through, stress-wise, he didn't see it either. He thought he was doing all the things that were right and of course he was breaking down because it wasn't, but he didn't have the skills or tools to even see it.
Speaker 2:Now, in all fairness to Paco and every man or woman that is believing a lie, believing the things they've been taught, I emphasize with them in that you're taught that from a very young age and it's the only language you know.
Speaker 2:So that's the language you speak, and it's the only language you know. So that's the language you speak, and it's not necessarily healthy, it's not necessarily accurate, but it's all you know. For example, a victim. There are people who are victims and all they've ever known is how to be a victim, and so when you tell them there's a different way to see life, they're almost like that's a foreign language, like what do you mean by that? And you have to help guide them out of it to see oh my gosh, you're right. That's how I do think of it. I was talking to a man just the other day, very sharp man. He was in a discussion with somebody and this person was arrogant and rude and demeaning and my client was so responsive so he gave examples that were legitimate. He was very, very accurate in how he defended his position.
Speaker 2:But even when the person made outlandish statements, my client had a hard time holding his own. He got emotionally worked up and got upset, almost sure he was going to say things that were not healthy, and that's because he's not got a moral definition that he can define himself as Like where he's comfortable looking at this man and saying, well, obviously you and I disagree and move on. He was so worked up he had to act out. In his case, he actually found a reason to leave because he didn't know how to deal with it, and as I was sitting there talking with him, I thought now, if I'd been having the conversation with this man, it wouldn't have phased me. I would have said, well, okay, that's your bias, you believe this? I don't believe that. Let's move on. Because I was defined. I wasn't worried about losing my footing in the dialogue, and he was worried about that.
Speaker 2:Paco was all equally worried about losing his presence, like this is all he knew how to do to give him definition. So, until he could see a different path, that said, oh oh, this might work. I've never seen it before, I've never tried it. The question, though, kat, is they have to trust the person sending the message. They have to believe the person who's sending the message is going to give them a hand across the river so they can actually find their way, because they can't find it on their own. They don't have any kind of reference to trust what's going to change them from where they are. So that's also a critical piece of the process, right? Yes, I really thought he was. I just thought he was just turning away from it. And so the anger that would made because you chose that path. You actually went in to the foray, the war and battled so you could earn good mental health.
Speaker 2:So not everybody has the same courage in all fairness and, by the way, blues are the worst at this they are the most likely to fear I won't do it right, I don't know how to do it. I'll be betraying those people that I love. They are more vulnerable than you and I at stepping out, so you're a great leader that way in trying to make that happen for yourself. I think Akka was more fear-based.
Speaker 1:Well, for sure, and we did hit on the fact that the discomfort has you know, I mean, and it would show up even physically, you know, and again, he's already given me the green light to chat about this- Because he's a good guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a good guy, but it's just so funny that that need to get out of the discomfort so quickly that's what I noticed about him Like he would stand up and his hands would start you know. He'd start making fists and he'd try to get out of the room and it's like how do people sit in discomfort? And when it's so uncomfortable, how do you help people go? Trust yourself through it, trust yourself to sit in it.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, but the point is I have to remind them you're not comfortable in the mess you're in. It's not working. I know you think it's working because you've gotten through life this far, but you're in, it's not working. I know you think it's working because you've gotten through life this far, but you are miserable. Look at the stress levels you're putting on your body and, by the way, it's a good example you use, because often it will play out in physical distress. You see things happening that you can't function anymore, but it is still hard to believe that there's some different way of looking at this than I've looked before. Plus, let's be honest, it also says you were complicit in your mental illness.
Speaker 2:Yes, you actually bought into it for a long time. Yes, so I hope that people are kinder to themselves in accepting okay, I was, who cares? It's over, I don't have to stay there anymore. I'm not obligated to stay there because I was there before I can move forward. So it's. It's really an important piece of growth and getting getting comfortable in your discomfort by realizing that there is light and that you are actually moving away from discomfort in a positive way, even though it is very difficult in the moment. And on top of that, paco was lucky because a lot of people they have people literally fighting them. They're trying to get better and people are trying to keep them back in the box. They like them staying sick.
Speaker 1:Why? Because it's control.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's what they know and it's comfortable for them, so why would they want you to change?
Speaker 1:Even when there's lack of joy and happiness.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. Our relationship is based on you being where you are, not you changing and then challenging me. And, by the way, that's another interesting kind of side note that when you're doing your work, don't expect other people around you to do their work. They didn't ask to do it. They're not seeing somebody for help. They're like, satisfied with whatever level of discomfort they're living in, even though it's maybe illegitimate, but they are not asking to change. So when you change, don't expect them to have like a parade celebrating your shift. They're gonna say, please get back in line, like we've been doing this parade for a long time. You're not. I'm not giving you a new parade, you're staying back where you used to be. So it's really hard, especially when it's someone close to you, a child or a parent or a friend. It's really hard when you're kind of in this alone.
Speaker 2:Fortunately for Paco, he had you which is really, really healthy, but that's not typically the case, by the way.
Speaker 1:Well, and talking about choosing your heart, which is like if you're in the middle of that and somebody says no, I don't want you to go there, and then you decide I'm going there all by myself. That journey alone, that feels wrong sometimes.
Speaker 2:So true, it does Well. If it's so right, why am I alone? Right? I mean, that's well and I I have to say when Scott Peck's work he came out the road less traveled, like he meant that it is the road less traveled Even now today.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's still the road less traveled today?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:Even more so.
Speaker 2:The masses do not do their work, Absolutely. I think it's much harder for people to actually step up and own Like, for example, people that are loving and giving, that are mistreated by people around them is they're still heroes in my mind. They're still the abnormal. They're unbelievable that way. I watch that all the time. I'm thinking what strength they have that allows them to not be trapped in their own victimhood. They're remarkable.
Speaker 1:So, as you're looking at this and you're choosing your heart, if there are signs, like I said, paco wasn't aware of or people aren't aware of, they just know things are wrong, like the gentleman you were talking about that lost his footing in a conversation with a really tough person. So those are the little signs, right, because I think we can kind of excuse that stuff away.
Speaker 1:Every time it happens it's like, oh, it's not my fault, he's the jerk, or I'm uncomfortable, like you said, I'm getting out of here. So those things we start gathering I always think about like grabbing a pebble and going I didn't like the way that felt. And then those are the things that should bring you to awareness. Is that? Is that the equation?
Speaker 2:That's actually the. That is absolutely the equation, and you have to gather enough pebbles to sometimes feel confident that oh, this really is not right, like I'm really glad I'm doing what I'm doing but in all fairness, it's still hard. It's a new muscle you've not exercised before. You just accepted before unhealthy reasoning and typically it's at your own demise, like you beat yourself up for it Like what? I'm the inadequate one. So, rather than finding you don't really know the tool to strengthen or what muscle you should be working on.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like going to a physical therapist and the physical therapist says don't move your arm, your problem is in your leg. They're going to work on your leg. Now, well, that's people that are unaware of their problem. They're working on their arm. That's not going to solve your problem with is your leg. So you have to get very clear as to what it is you need to work on, and I will say that again goes back to my issue of humility. Humble people are much more able to transfer their orientation than people who are proud because they're afraid of being embarrassed, they're afraid of looking wrong, they're afraid of not fitting in, they have all these other fears that are tangling them in the weeds which prevent them from getting free, and that's what's hard, but you should if something doesn't feel right like that. No, that's see. But I'm going to go back to this again Moral definition of who you are. Like you have to know what are my rights, like when people I'll work with people that they're being abused by somebody and I'm like, well, that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2:No no, the person's out of line. Why do you know that? Because I have my own moral definition and what they're doing to you I would not allow them to do to me. I mean, they're pushing an envelope that is not open and you have this envelope that's kind of open to whatever comes their way and your way, and so people push on it and people that can get away with it keep pushing on it. But the minute you understand that, no, no, you worked against my moral definition, I'm not playing that game. They go elsewhere. They stop pushing against you because they can't get away with it anymore.
Speaker 2:So people have to know, well, what are my rights Like, what is right about me, what are my responsibilities to myself and to protecting me. You know my favorite activity that I do, when I take people back to their childhood on the beach and make them really kind of look at themselves and understand they have been degrading and abusing that child which is them for years in order to please other people who are far less significant than that child. But they have never owned. I have done that repeatedly. I have repeatedly dismissed myself and even people that are arrogant and bombastic and know-it-alls. They're no better. Their problem is just as painful. They're scared to death to be exposed and vulnerable, so they act out trying to control the environment around them. It's the same dynamic, it's just one is more offensive, the other one is more pathetic.
Speaker 1:That's what I have, how I put it well, and then to tie back to what you said about what, what's going on in, you know, therapy or counseling or coaching right now, where, where they are not, they're actually being weakened by you know, by the agreement or the problem is the person you're in here talking about, who isn't even in the room You're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:You want to fix somebody who's not even here. Good luck with that one Right and and just so you know that's a great point If I'm going to come to you and complain about my life, I want you to tell me it's not my fault. I want you to tell me soothe me over with some kindness that says I'm not at fault. Now, by the way, I don't have a problem when someone has been victimized, saying it really, really distresses me. You've been treated like this, and as soon as you're ready to start getting strong with it, I want to give you some tools to do that. If somebody needs too much time for handholding, I refer them to someone else, because I want to get on with the skill building, I want to get on with the strengthening, and some people want to sit more in the victimhood, longer than I am willing to do. So there is that. But I do believe people need to at least be heard Like they need to at least be told.
Speaker 1:Acknowledged yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, that's right, but then, of course, okay. So now, what are we going to do? When are we going to get better it? What are we going to do? When are we going to get better? It's like like coaching a team that's lost every game the last season. How much do you want to talk about losing the last game? Like, when do you want to get on with becoming a team that will win the next season?
Speaker 1:So it's that kind of mindset that I have. Yeah, that's, that's good. I think. Do you just intuitively, like when you're listening to somebody and you go okay, the victim mentality is now no longer. I mean, we've heard it, now we're just. We just keep making the same points, you know, from a different place in the circle right?
Speaker 2:It's actually boring to be honest with you and you know, and I will say to somebody so okay, how much longer do you want to talk about this? Or when do you want to start working on skills to improve? And I'll be very honest about it. I mean, I can be, I even kid people like okay, so you want more of the violin, or do you want to get on with getting better at this? And they're great. Like people are honest with me, They'll tell me I think I need someone who is a little softer. Or they'll say, oh no, I've been doing this for so long. Please help me. I want to get on with my life. And you can tell when they're ready. It's true, it's just like you know when you're done with therapy, because you could just go to lunch. Anymore, it's no longer a helping someone. Give them skills. They now have the skills Right. They can do the things they're doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, that's yeah. That's a really great point, because I do think that it is the mental ladder of how you get to you know the things that you're talking about. I can't even remember the name of it, but it's like this ladder of inference or something where you know, I observe something, I pick information, I base my responses on that, my belief system, and then what I do is I don't go back and I don't check it again. And I was noticing, you know, like with the people that we work with you know some of my coaching clients it's like you got to go back and you got to keep saying what information am I pulling in?
Speaker 1:What's the information that I'm looking at every day. Is it that my dad from 48 years ago, blah, blah, blah? Or is it you know what I did yesterday that I was proud of?
Speaker 2:I mean simplistically oh, you know what that's such a great point. One of my biggest problems with clients is self-esteem. I mean, I have people that are so sharp, like just really good people, and they don't know it, they do not believe it. They have bought the story that they're inadequate, they're pathetic, they're wrong, they're limited for so long. I mean literally that one story of that striking woman who had to write on her mirror you are beautiful every day for one year, before she actually believed.
Speaker 2:It was so stunning to me when clearly she is gorgeous, but in her mind, because of the messages she had bought for so many years, she was not and people thought she was kidding at first, they thought she was mocking everybody and they said and finally she was so sincere, they realized, oh my gosh, and all of us, by the way, all of us have the same beauty in certain aspects of our life. Like there are very intelligent people, there are very physically fit people, there are very good mothers, there are people that have that same gift maybe not beauty, but something different that they dismiss as not being true, and they've dismissed it for so long that when you ask them to actually just flip that script now and let's say positive things. It takes a long time, literally, to actually start believing the new script. So that's really true. You actually start believing the new script. So that's really true. You can start that the better you are yeah, that's really true.
Speaker 1:I was, I think, as you know, as aging is something that's interesting right now, right like it's hitting my 60s and you know, no matter what you do, okay, okay, dude, you're. You're not gonna look 20, you're gonna look like you're doing something weird and that you're still like you know, but I do think that that's an interesting thing is like how do, what you're talking about and how you're letting that information in and how long you spend on yeah, I don't look like that anymore, so. So where do I want to go?
Speaker 2:with that information, let's go back to the motive again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's my motive for keeping believing these things that have done nothing to help me in my life? Yes, what am I gaining from that? Yes, and so I think it's so critical that people start thinking are my motives damaging myself? Because it's easy to point out what other people are saying, but when you're doing it to yourself, it seems harder for people to actually see it. God, it almost seemed ridiculous, but they do it, yes.
Speaker 2:So freeing them and freeing oneself of negative lies while it makes total sense, you should do it it's hard to do and it's especially hard to do alone and, like you said, it's really, really smart to keep looking at what you're letting in, why you're letting it. In fact, I'll often say to people all I'm going to ask you because I know you can't stop being negative just limit it. Like, give yourself three minutes, that's it. Five minutes at the most, that's it. Once you're done beating yourself up, I want 55 minutes of joyous, happy, outgoing, positive. I mean, at least make them aware that they are damaging themselves by staying negative and limit the amount of time you allow it to go on. Don't let yourself keep flogging yourself.
Speaker 2:That goes, by the way, with the concept of blending logic and emotion. Reds and whites are blessed with the gift of logic. Blues and yellows are blessed with the gift of emotion. Now, take either of those to an extreme and you are missing the element that you don't have.
Speaker 2:So if I'm a red, I'm very logical, very pragmatic, very disciplined, but I have no emotional connection. I lose the heart of life. I cannot live an abundant life because I refuse to blend my logic with emotion. So I lean on my stronger leg, which is the logic. I oftentimes ignore my weaker leg of emotion and then live a limited life and oftentimes I wonder why people don't appreciate me, because I'm so good at leading, getting stuff done, being decisive, but they have no connection beyond those decisions.
Speaker 2:On the other hand, you have blues that are so emotional, they are so irrational in their belief system, they don't allow the logic to enter in and blend so that they can think rationally, think proactively. They rather stay negative or stuck in negative emotion. So again, both blues and yellows and I will in all difference, I have to say yellows and whites because they are lighter, they have an easier time of blending the two. I will say that. But the reality is that both blues and yellows have to come up with logical blending to live abundant lives. And reds and whites must embrace emotion in a healthy way to have an abundant life.
Speaker 1:How would you coach somebody to blend better? What would you say to them?
Speaker 2:Well, for example, a blue that's being very emotional about something, I would say tell me three reasons why this is probably a good thing to do. Go to a logical perspective. Tell me rationally what you probably should do tomorrow when you meet that person. That would enhance the quality of your interaction, for I don't care what the emotion is. Tell me logically what is a good move to make and I would guide them, like they may not know right away, and I guide them giving some ideas of what they could do that's logical and proactive. If it's like a yellow who's irrational, they're not showing up for things.
Speaker 2:I would start with now, logically how do you think that's working to your advantage? Well, I'm getting to sleep in longer, okay. So how are people seeing you now? Are they seeing you as the person you want to be seen as, or are they seeing you as lazy and disruptive? Well, lazy and disruptive, okay. Is that okay with you? No, okay. What must you do to change that? Rather than keep justifying why you sleep in, what must you shift logically to change that perspective they have of you?
Speaker 2:And if I'm dealing with a white who's being silently stubborn, for example, I would go to how does that make someone feel when you won't talk, you won't share with them any of your thoughts or ideas, you just shut them out of the relationship. How do you think they're feeling? I go to the emotional empathy piece which they are not showing. So it's those kinds of things that you do. You're teaching them basic like. I'm no different than a physical therapist who's actually working a muscle in your body Right. I'm doing the same thing with you mentally to actually get you balanced and blended. It makes your life more successful.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's where that chews your heart, like you know. And based on result I love that based on the result of what you get from a white stepping in and thinking about empathy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And actually trying to, even if it's flawed, you know, even if it's not like you know they don't get it. At least they're like interested in you or ask a question.
Speaker 2:Correct? No, you're absolutely no. You know what? And I get baby steps? Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I mean, some people just need more time to figure it out, but at least they're going in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Finally, again, I'm going to talk about this probably more in an upcoming podcast, but the motive is so critical here. Like, what is my motive for being silent and stubborn? Well, it's fear. That can never be a clean motive. It will never help you. What's my motive for being empathic? It's healthy, it's loving, it's caring. On the other hand, if my motive is manipulative I just want to control you then obviously it's a dirty motive. It's I'm winning at your expense, and that will never actually produce the results that I want. I may think I'm getting away with something, but I'm really not. I'm just holding myself hostage from my dirty emotional motive. So I mean, at the end of the day, whether people want to admit it or not, it always in the end is exposed Like you'll just see people who think they're getting away with things and watch them playing their life out. It doesn't happen At the end of the day. It's very skewed, limited, unhealthy, and they lose, they don't win at life.
Speaker 2:So today, the essence of this conversation was choose your hard. I want our audience to think about what are the hard things they need to choose. And a great example of this is, by the way, when you're single, the hard things you choose are different than when you're married. When you have children. The things you choose that are hard are different, and you have to grow and evolve to where you can do even harder things in life. And that's why, when kids that are in high school are telling me I am just so stressed, I can't stand it, I've got so much going on, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so true.
Speaker 2:At the level they're at, that's exactly right. But when they are trying to pay their rent and deal with a disobedient child, that's a whole different ball game. But they're not there yet. They have to evolve and develop. So if they don't evolve in high school and make the hard choices and learn how to be healthier, then when they get to where they're older and have difficult children or pay the rent or whatever, they don't have that muscle in place because they didn't choose and learn when they were young. So every season of our life is supposed to enhance us at being able to step into the next one and the ultimate one is death, abdication, allowing it to go. I mean, it's just so beautiful how many different seasons challenge us to choose the correct hard. So that's it for today. Thank you again, kat, always a pleasure.
Speaker 2:We love you, we appreciate your feedback and your thoughts and we hope you have a wonderful, wonderful month and we'll check in next month.
Speaker 1:Bye now. Love you guys, bye-bye.