Very Best of Living
Dr. Taylor Hartman, relationship expert and Psychologist, discusses key insights that he has made over his professional career on what makes successful relationships. His work The Color Code now called the People Code is a powerful agent for positive healthy relationships both personal and professional.
Very Best of Living
Coaching Creates Change When You're Ready to Face Yourself
Dr. Taylor Hartman and Cat Larson dive deep into the transformative power of coaching and how it unlocks emotional intelligence for meaningful personal growth. They explore how the Color Code personality system provides unparalleled clarity about who we truly are, quickly cutting through layers of self-deception that might otherwise take months to unravel in traditional therapy.
The conversation reveals how each color personality brings unique gifts essential for emotional intelligence: Reds naturally excel at motivation, Whites demonstrate exceptional self-control, Blues possess innate empathy, and Yellows offer outstanding people skills. Understanding these distinct strengths allows us to learn from personalities different from our own, developing areas where we might naturally struggle.
What makes this discussion particularly compelling is their honest exploration of why some people experience profound transformation while others remain stuck. Those who embrace growth with statements like "I'm good with who I am, but I want to become more" progress rapidly, while those who resist self-examination often remain trapped in patterns of blame and resentment. Through powerful real-life examples, they demonstrate how unresolved trauma can cause us to adopt behaviors contrary to our true nature—like a naturally peaceful White personality taking on negative Red characteristics as protection—preventing authentic healing and growth.
Taylor and Cat also address contemporary mental health challenges, distinguishing between those using psychological labels as excuses versus those genuinely working to overcome difficulties. They emphasize that effective coaching provides both compassionate support and necessary accountability, helping clients take ownership of their lives regardless of past experiences.
Ready to discover your true self and unlock your full potential? Join us on this journey of self-discovery and transformation. The Color Code might just be the tool that changes everything for you, as it has for countless others seeking authentic growth and healing.
Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.
Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.
Hello listeners. This is Dr Taylor Hartman, with Very Best of Living. I'm with my good friend Kat Larson. Hello Kat.
Speaker 1:Hello, good friend Taylor, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, thank you. I'm in a beautiful place in Sundance and it's gorgeous and I just marvel at what God does, right? It's just amazing so much how beautiful it is. Yeah, so many beautiful places in this world. It's fun. They even talked today about appreciating those things about the human, the marvels about humans.
Speaker 2:People are so resilient and so capable as well as being very fragile and vulnerable. They're the best of all those worlds in my mind, and I thought we would talk today about coaching and how you really do impact people's life for change. I have been very blessed over 50 years of working with so many incredible people, some more difficult than others, for sure, but every single one of them have the guts to walk through my door and sit down and face themselves, and I've always been very, very respectful of people's willingness to make their lives better, to improve themselves, to look within, and people that have not done that in their lives have missed, in my mind, a rich opportunity. It's one of those connections, relationships, that you can't even explain to someone who's never experienced it, but for those of us that have experienced it, we know what it's like to be able to trust our open feelings and thoughts in the hands of somebody else who won't discard them, won't negate them, may challenge them, but certainly have the intent of only helping you improve as a person. We've talked a lot about emotional intelligence over the years and color code is probably the best tool around to unlock emotional intelligence. By far it's the most specific and accurate tool that you can take to explain behavior through motive Like let's take, for example, the foundation of all emotional intelligence is self-awareness. You can't get more clarity than with color code. You can't. Nothing is more revealing than color code as to who you are and why you do what you do, or why you desire what you desire. It's so valuable to have that. I've always said to people I cut six months out of therapy with color code. I just get things so much quicker, so much fresher, so much cleaner than if I didn't have that. So I think it's very important for people to understand that when you're seeing a coach or somebody who's skilled in this field, having someone with that background and those expertises enhances your experience dramatically. It also helps the person see what the real issues are like. I'll start with one of the first questions I often ask my clients is where's your greatest pain? And that changes in life, but wherever that is in the moment gives you much more insight into that person than anything they could answer. It's what matters most to them. So you start with that to get a kind of a bearing, a sense of where they're coming from and what they're concerned about. And I think it's so powerful.
Speaker 2:When I think about back through the years when I worked with people and didn't know their color right away and had to find it, the discovery of congruence became a really, really pivotal part. I've noticed people, for example, that you know they just things did not make sense. And once I found that core, even when they were living incongruently, like, say, they're a white and they were acting very, very red. It wasn't until I got that they were white that I could go oh, no wonder, it doesn't match up. And then I could begin to take off the layers of this ill-conceived idea they put on themselves that they had to be a red instead of being a white, and to find out who they really were in the process. And then the healing starts to begin, and then the rebuilding of the strengths of who you really were in the process, and then the healing starts to begin, and then the rebuilding of the strengths, of who you really are, can start. But it's just, it's always been one of those tools that I relish, let's put it that way. And even if the client doesn't know the color code doesn't matter, I still can use that because it's still a true principle, sure, sure. So that's been really, really valuable to me. No-transcript asking me to forgive, because you are the wounding person also and you don't see that you're doing that and you're holding yourself back and you're stuck because you can't forgive. So finding I think that's what a coach's major responsibility is is to find the real issues that are preventing the person from moving forward, that are causing them to be stuck, and then the ability to share that in a way they're willing to hear it.
Speaker 2:I know in my work loving people is not hard. It's very easy, typically, for me to find people, so once that's in place, I need to get on with, let's fix the problem. But for some people that's too direct. They almost want the hand-holding to go on for several months in like a courtship sort of state. Let's get to know each other better first, and then you can tell me what's wrong and I'm like no, that's costing you time and money. Let's figure out how to get you on your footing sooner than later. Caring about you, loving you, is not a problem. So how do we make your life better is where I want to get to rather quickly, honestly.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about unlocking emotional intelligence, define that in a way. Let's just take it apart. So of course, the self-awareness is pretty evident, right? I'm on the surface like color code boy, I get it. I'm a yellow, you're a blue, you're a white, you're a red, and then all of the through, the profile, all the information that you can get in strengths and limitations and needs and wants, and you know all of those things. That's the self-awareness piece, right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and why anyone wouldn't go on and take the profile on taterharvardcom? I will never know, because it literally unlocks that entire piece of self-awareness.
Speaker 1:Right. So there's the self-awareness piece and then we have the motivation piece. So talk a little bit from your view about if I need to unlock these components, because there's five of them historically that come together to make you more resilient and more. Grow your capacity right, Like your ability to handle more. So when I look at how does color code do that for motivation, can you give some examples of that?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, the example a red personality is best at motivation. They are the motivated people, Right? So it helps you understand. What does red do and why are they so motivated? And I'm not, so it's such a valuable tool.
Speaker 2:As a yellow, for example, it's easy for me to go oh, if I want that success that a red goes for, I have to show up. I can't have an excuse as to why I'm not there. As a yellow, I can always have an excuse, but not if I want to show up. I can't have an excuse as to why I'm not there. As a yellow, I can always have an excuse, but not if I want to be motivated like a red. So if I want to grow that capacity, I have to embrace the way they look at life, to be more motivated. So I was playing tennis with a young man it was actually a judge and we were playing and after we were done he said just so you know, when I play with them and I warm up with them, I always look to find their weaknesses. I always look to see where I can penetrate to exploit their weaknesses, and I look for that in the warm-up period. Now that gave me. I mean, I have never done that in my life, no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Well, they always give it time. They don't react in the moment. They always step back and pace it before they respond so good, and blues struggle with that horrendously. Like they're so quick to go with their emotions, they never let logic even seep, in which whites do so brilliantly. So self-control right comes from a white's gift their ability to think about what's going to happen logically, put it in place before they react to something. You have the blue gift of empathy, which has to do with the ability to connect with or feel for other people. Blues do this so easily, they don't have to work at it, it just comes to them. But if you want to develop that gift, you want to build that relationship, you've got to think like a blue. You have to be much more sincere about learning to understand the depth of why people might be stuck in an area of their life or where they can't let go of something so easily.
Speaker 2:And then you talk about people skills, getting along with people. Well, that's the yellows gift they get along with everyone, and that's because they don't typically make it a judgment issue. So if I'm not really good with people skills, typically it's because I'm locked inside myself, worrying about me and how people think of me. Yellows don't do any of that. All they do is go outward to the individual. So those are just some quick run-through ideas that give you great tools to understand. Somebody has the very gift you need if you're humble enough to go seek it. But I would seek it from the person who's good at it, not the person who's not.
Speaker 1:Yes, find the healthy version of that.
Speaker 2:Right how that looks, and then there are tools to be used to make that happen. So in all the years of coaching, I have to tell you I really loved watching some people say it's time for me to evolve. Yeah, I need to grow more I want to become better at. I love people that embrace that mindset as opposed to being defensive. Why are you always questioning me? Why do I have to grow something? Why do I have to become better? Why am I not good enough as I am? It's so rich when somebody has the healthy mindset that says I'm good with who I am. I want to become more, as opposed to don't challenge me, I don't want to look inside, I'm afraid of what I'll find. So they really do stay stuck. They don't really grow at all when they get that mindset?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's we. I was just up in idaho last weekend. It was my mom's 99th birthday and we were wow yeah, we, we, my family, brothers and sisters got together and grandkids and great-grandkids, and somebody asked my mom, you know, like what's the key? And and I just you know, I mean, it's nothing we haven't heard, but just the fact that the older she gets, it's like all of that stuff like and you know, stuff I'm going to, because she and I talked about in the car.
Speaker 1:All of that stuff that we worry about really is so petty. When she gets back and she looks back and says why didn't I just ask the question, you know, why didn't I just say, hey, that's not right. Why did? And she's white personality, why didn't I just step in the middle of it and try to understand it more? So that was the gist of she didn't use those words exactly, but that was the gist is like there's so much wasted time, like you said at the beginning respect her.
Speaker 2:She said yes said yes, yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so. So, as you're talking about coaching and and getting better, do you think we have evolved in the last you know, a hundred years, like where we are now? And you really can't do. I can pick up my profile and read through it and I will have a certain amount of growth and self-awareness it and I will have a certain amount of growth in self-awareness. But am I correct in and I do this for a living, so I'm asking for confirmation, I guess. Am I correct in saying that once I'm past that self-awareness piece, I can get a little self-awareness by just looking at myself and seeing how people react to me? I can get a lot of self-awareness picking up a profile and reading about myself. Then I really step into big growth when I get involved with a coach or I start getting feedback. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that if you look at any athlete, they will tell you they have coaches for a reason. The coaches can give them perspective and ideas that they are not going to see on their own, and so why you would not want that in your life as a person someone to give you guidance and some insights is beyond me. I guess because of the fear of exposing yourself, I guess. But the reality is that you will improve and you will see things you will not see on your own. Plus, it really is nice to have somebody in your corner complimenting you on growth you're making, because it's not easy and oftentimes what I find is when people try and get better and grow, people around them want the back of the box they were in because they're comfortable with them there. So this person who is supporting them in their growth and their changes my experience has been people with coaches exponentially expand their don't have that.
Speaker 2:So I think it's a very, very personal journey. I think that it tells it says a lot about people who you pick to be your coach. If you want someone who's just going to handhold and support you, even when you're incorrect, that says something about you. If you want someone who wants to challenge you more and you're ready for that. That says something about you, but I think that it's important for people to open up to what could my life be if I could see it differently than I see it now. When you go to school, you have a teacher, because there's someone that's supposed to give you insight that you didn't have before you entered that classroom. It's the same with coaching, only it's more personal. That idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also think that like, like a better you know, like say, I'm coaching somebody in a corporate setting a better leader. To me, I mean, it's like a domino right, Like a better leader becomes a better parent, becomes a better colleague, becomes a better partner, becomes a better you know it's not just so. So you know corporate executive coaching, or or you know dealing with a mom who is a, b or C, it affects everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with you on that. Really, the people that want to become better grow in all aspects of their life. It's, it's a domino effect. I would agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it says a lot about them and that's who they are as people. Whether it's a business CEO or it's just a mom at home, it doesn't matter. I mean the fact they want to become better means it touches all aspects of their life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I have a question for you on that. Once I name because people get into coaching because of fears, right, I mean it's usually a fear or something's in their life, that, or a pain, like you said, like we talked on another podcast about you know what? Where's your pain? Once I name it, is that, like you know, like that's the other thing about about the tool is that it's like I can name it, I can name this limitation.
Speaker 2:Once you name it, that's fine. Now tell me why. Because once you can see what it is, then you have to go deeper and understand. Why is that, now that you've named it? Why is that one so hard for you? What's so? Is it coming from your history in your past? Is it coming from unresolved pain in your past? Is it? Why is that thing you've named now so significant in your life? And find then tools to work around that, as opposed to staying stuck with it, are really really powerful, really important do you have?
Speaker 2:one. I was uh right now yeah because it stays.
Speaker 2:It's always very. I don't have any real pain right now. Good, and I think. I think that I'm in a place right now where I'm actually living life with a lot of grace, oh, which is really really nice. Yeah, it is nice, but I still I'm concerned about my kids and my grandkids. I still want them to make good decisions and good choices. I'm still a big believer that if you make those younger, your life's more abundant and fuller later in time. So I'm still very much engaged in that phenomena and I also have some with clients that I see that I know they're in pain because they're doing the right thing, but there's consequences for the past. It was interesting.
Speaker 2:I just got an email from a man whose wife will not forgive him for things he has said or done in the past. He describes her as a white who now has gone red and won't talk about how wrong she was, and he recognizes that he ran over her. He recognized that he was not receptive or tender or whatever when they were younger. But as I was reading the email, it was so clear to me that she has never done her work Like she's complaining that she was mistreated as a white. So she now has become the mistreater and gone into a negative red. She's not healthy red. Healthy reds don't waste their time on that kind of stuff, but she's using red, bludgeoning, demanding behavior to protect herself and punish him. And so I mean, and she can't get congruent with herself as a white till, she goes back and owns.
Speaker 2:I played my white limitations, I didn't play my white strengths, it was on me. I chose to allow that to happen. The minute she goes there she can actually free herself. But until that happens, they're all now held captive and it's just. It's one of those great examples of. I mean, I could just see myself with her if she were willing to do her work to free herself from that misery of the 20 years past and get on with a new 20 years forward. But if she doesn't do that, she'll stay stuck in a negative red, which is not her for, and deny herself who she really is the beauty of the white, the kindness, the gentleness and I've seen that with lots of women. I have to be honest. Over the years they took the hit and now, in their older years, instead of being comfortable, they take more of a proactive, negative approach, like I'm going to punish those who mistreated me when I was younger.
Speaker 2:And what would you replace that with? She needs to go back to her deal with her hurt, like talk about the pain that she went through and how uncomfortable that was, the trauma that went from being mistreated, and then say, but I didn't play to my strengths. Here are my strengths. I ignored them. I let them be walked on, taken apart, there are whites in the world that don't have that happen to them. Right here are my strengths. I ignored them. I let them be walked on taken apart.
Speaker 2:There are whites in the world that don't have that happen to them. There are whites that are very clean about that. They're very good at setting boundaries, and she had never done that, so then she can learn some skills to actually employ her white gifts, as opposed to her red negatives. She's got plenty of alternatives that she could use that are blessing and enhancing all the lives around her, and right now, all she's doing is is pummeling people to pay a price for what was done to her and it's her perspective yeah, and I, you know it's funny.
Speaker 1:It's like I was noticing this when I was with my family. It's like how you can get people to you know, like how you can get people to you know, like how you can get people in your story to give it energy where that's the last thing you need. It's just so interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, and the best manipulators create that. Yes, like they drag people into their story and you then start feeding them this nonsense that they all believe is true and you're like, oh my gosh, you're all a mess now. And, by the way, that does happen in families. Like dysfunction, it breeds dysfunction, right?
Speaker 2:And then you're hearing like there's not just one generation, there's multiple generations that are feeding nonsense into the story that you like to talk, that contrive this story and anyone from the outside that was not part of it would look in and go. You're crazy, like anyone from the outside that was not part of it would look in and go.
Speaker 1:You're crazy Like this is nuts, but they're living it Right.
Speaker 2:So I think it's really, I think it's very important. Again, we're talking about doing your work right. Like what does that look like? Well, it takes ownership for your life. Here's what I have done. Here's what I've allowed to happen in my life.
Speaker 2:I mean, I use this story all the time that I have a very red mother and I have one sister that literally could not tolerate her, hated her till the day she died, did not give her any kind of connection at all. Then another daughter who was mistreated truly by her, who rubbed her feet when she was an old age, starting to move, taking care of her, and she forgave her. And they were both treated poorly, but one of them freed herself of that dysfunction and the other one didn't. And whose responsibility is that? Well, I think it's theirs. We could put it on my mom, but that's not going to free them.
Speaker 2:You've got to wear the trauma that happened to you in life and own it and then say, okay, how do I change that now? How do I retell a story that has more meaning and it's more beauty than the trauma and the negativity that I've allowed for all these years? And, boy, when I see it happen, it's an unveiling. Honestly, that is so beautiful I can hardly even express it when I watch it happen. And it happens in all colors. I see every color rise to the occasion and I see every color not. So I know that it's not a color thing. It's something deeper within the individual that chooses to own their life and free all the participants and then write the story they want it to look like. It's just, it's remarkable to watch that happen. And it doesn't happen overnight, no, but it doesn't take forever.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know why people think you have to be in therapy forever for this to happen. It's not true. If you're willing to do your work, you can figure these things out rather quickly. To be honest with you, the longer it takes is because the person is not willing to let go. To be honest with you, the longer it takes is because the person is not willing to let go. But once they're willing to let go, as you mentioned, name it. What is the issue and then why? And then what are you willing to own about that? As soon as you're willing to have that happen, the scales start to fall off and I don't think we're meant to stay in trauma and pain for the rest of our life. That's not the intent of being human for our life.
Speaker 1:That's not the intent of being human. No, I love that question about pain because no matter who you are, no matter who you are, you have a place of that and some people know how to deal with it. And I mean, there's healthy people that don't go to therapy. There's healthy people that don't go to therapy. Right, absolutely, but I do think it's getting harder, given some of the dynamic of this world.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just the idea of now we've kind of turned it upside down. Yes, now you have people that all are like everybody's got anxiety and depression, right, I'm like what on earth? That is not legit, that is not right. No, although I will say that when you talk about the phones and gaming, like I'm telling you, there are people, young people, that are not getting real life experiences and they are living in alternate universes and it is depriving them of developing skills that are necessary to become responsible adults, and that does bother me tremendously.
Speaker 2:So I think sometimes people crave or claim mental issues that are not really mental issues at all. These aren't willing to step up and be responsible about life. And then there are other people that they see it as no. I can see that I have a mental health issue here. I want to resolve that and fix it and move on, and it's a different ballgame altogether. So in today's world, I love the fact we do more mental health than we ever did before. On the other hand, I think we've almost turned it upside down to where people think they are mentally ill, when they're just choosing to escape.
Speaker 1:Exactly, excuse it.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Again, that's what good coaching does you know what you're dealing Exactly. Exactly, friend. They could do that. That's not a point of a good coach. A good coach, you're able to direct you and guide you and give you good perspective. That you don't have and hold you accountable to your growth process. And if you're not getting anywhere, it'll be like going to a physical fitness person and you're getting worse. Like that's not the answer. That's right.
Speaker 1:Something's wrong, that's right why would that not be the same? With mental health, it's the same dynamic yeah, you wouldn't put. And there's this mental health word. I think I'm guilty of that. I'm getting better at it, but there is some stigma around. I don't know. We talk about mental health in a way that is like you have to handle it with really, really gently and kid gloves and we're talking about people's mental health. Well, I'm like okay, that's exactly the opposite. Let's get in there and get our hands dirty with it 100% true, kat.
Speaker 2:In fact, if you talk to any good gardener, they'll tell you if you do not rough up the roots and get them planted properly, they will not grow Right. If you're too gentle, you miss the point. They'll not grow Right. It's no different with mental health. You, it's no different with mental health. You're going to dance around the issues and you're going to be held captive by the client. Yes, you're not helping them get better, you're not addressing the issue. And if someone uses that manipulation on you, if you really cared, you wouldn't say that to me. If you would do this, you'd do differently, because they're just kind of manipulating you. Right, you need to tell them you aren't manipulating right now. I don't know what you're gaining from that, but it's not going to work to your advantage. They have to understand what good mental health coaching is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it starts with you. It's really good. I mean, I really look at the way that Hartman Color Code goes after it and it's like it is the most impactive, quick to the point tool driven walk away with. I can change this today and see a result. I mean, I won't see a result, I might not see the result today, but I can change this today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just even the way you actually see things, you could change that minute. Yeah, that can happen. Yeah, it is, it is true. I think the reason it's so confident for me is I know it's true. I know it works every single time.
Speaker 2:I'm not coming up with my own imagination here, or I'm not putting on you something that I want for you that may not be what you want for yourself. I'm talking about truth. That is going to be true, whether you agree with it or not, and whether I share it or not, it's still the truth. So if I care about you, why would I not expose you to that so you can make good choices? Obviously, I want to support you in the process, but I also want you to take it's your life, take responsibility for it. Don't pass it off and then feel upset when your life doesn't grow in the direction you want it to. And it doesn't matter what your background is.
Speaker 2:I have worked with people that I'm telling you my gosh. I think I've had this woman who was impregnated by her father and sent away because he was embarrassed, and she came back because she was desperate or 15, wanting a family, and her mother then sent her away, calling her a whore. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, the trauma Some of these people I have worked with, have lived with in their life is almost overwhelming. Yes, and I've worked with, have lived with in their life is almost overwhelming. Yes, and I've worked with other people that I'm like I don't see the trauma you're talking about, but they're like flatline, they're not able to move forward at all. Right, so at some point I do have to say we have ownership.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We all each one of us, regardless of our life history have got to say it is our life, how do we want to live it, and if there's someone that can help you live it more effectively, then you should embrace that and consider it a gift to yourself, just to make your life better, to see things you may be missing right now in your life. So we're done for time today. So it's all about going forward. Moving forward that's what it's about. That's right. Listeners, thank you for being with us. We're so glad you're part of this journey with us. Color coding is just a gift for life and makes life that much fresher and clearer. Kat, always a pleasure. Yep.
Speaker 1:Love you guys so much.
Speaker 2:We'll see you next week Next month, I mean Next month, all.