What You Bring To The Room Shapes Every Relationship

We explore how inner motive shapes relationships more than circumstance, and how to move from blame to ownership. We contrast sociology’s group forces with psychology’s personal agency, and show how unconditional love changes homes, work, and aging with dignity.

• framing sociology as external forces and psychology as the energy you bring
• ownership over family trauma and inherited patterns
• therapy boundaries between empathy and effectiveness
• resentment, fairness instincts and forgiving to move forward
• loving partners by celebration instead of correction
• worth beyond doing for aging parents and caregivers
• helping adult children with clean motives and structure
• leadership that values people over transactions
• jealousy and insecurity as self-sabotage
• daily energy check to align motive and impact

Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.

Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com  Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Good morning, listeners. Or whatever time you're listening to this podcast, this is Very Best of Living with Dr. Taylor Hartman. I'm with my good colleague and friend Kat Larson. Hello, Kat.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Good morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

We could start this morning. We could start this morning. I'm learning to play the ukulele if you'd like to join in on a um actually thanks.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I'd like to give you a a couple weeks to practice.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hey.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

You're right. I don't even know how good it is. I'm what am I saying? You could be excellent already.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

No, I I think you should give me a couple months to practice.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, I'm proud of you for doing that. Ukulele is kind of fun. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It is. It is fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Win you a trip to Hawaii or something. That'd be great. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Um, so uh yeah, so here we are on the new year, life moving fast. I can't believe um I I was listening to this podcast the other day. This guy is hysterical. He says, I can't believe it's still January. I hate January. And he goes, it never ends. It's like always January.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I know. I've seen that. It's January 217th, and um, we are you know exactly nothing's changed.

Sundance Dinner Sparks A Theme

SPEAKER_00 1:27

But you know what's funny about that is that I was thinking, we went to dinner with some very good friends last night, and um, they drove up to Sundance and we went to the uh at the grill room, and it was really great. And people should know Sundance has they've done such a remarkable job at building a what I think is a world-class resort. It is so festive and quaint, it's almost unbelievable. And I was thinking when I was working out that morning how excited I was to see them. That they're they're people who bring such uh a joy. And and I could see us at dinner, the couple next to us were sorry they sat by us because they couldn't hear each other. It's just well.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

And they were jealous.

Sociology Vs Psychology Frames

Color Motives And Life Stages

Ownership Beyond Family Trauma

Mother-Daughter Resentment Case

SPEAKER_00 2:06

They well, I probably, yeah, I think it was kind of a first date, but we'll see. Anyway, we were having so much fun, and I was thinking about that that different people bring different kinds of energy to relationships. And what kind of person are you? So when my dad was alive, my father was a psychology sociologist, I'm sorry, taught sociology at Cal State Long Beach, did sociological kinds of things, a lot of sex research, worked with families as well, but very sociologically oriented, which for me means group orientation, like how the world impacts you and how you impact the world. Well, not so much you impact the world, but the world impacts you. I, on the other hand, am a psychologist. So I see it more from how you impact the world, like what's internal versus external. So it's a different kind of bias that we both have. Both are valuable, like both make so much sense. Today I thought I would talk with people about the sociology and the psychology of their life. For example, we're all born into families, and some of us impact our families, and others of us are impacted by our families. More so. My point is that obviously you impact both ways. But there are some people who they are still traumatized by the sociology of being in a family that was dysfunctional. They don't take ownership for the psychology of what did you do to impact at, or what have you done to impact your life differently than when you were part of that sociology. Does that make sense? Yes. So the idea I'm looking at here, um, I'm reading a book right now called The Making of a Man. It's quite interesting by a guy named Scott Galloway. And he's so red. I mean, that it it I wish people would just know, just know he's red. Like when you read, when you listen to him or read his book, your understanding has come from a red perspective. Like one of the comments he made in there is the sociology shows that you're least happy from 25 to 45. Well, not me. That wasn't true for me. I loved being with kids. I loved having a family. I loved being a parent. I liked it more than being a grandparent. Like I loved it. So he was coming from a red perspective of selfishness. Like I had to give away going out to dinner with friends, I had to give away freedom. So to him, that made sense, that that graph. To me, it did not make sense. So I think that people have to start with the psychology, which is what's my color and what's my influence? What do I bring to the table versus what society brings to me? And so my reaction is some of us that are uh our listeners, I want you to think about that role you play in navigating your life. Like what, what are you add-on, uh value added, or are you a mice, value subtract, right? Both internally in the family and internally personally. Like, for example, I was talking to a young woman the other day who hates her mother and she can't stand her mother. And I said to her, well, just so you know, most people who can't stand their mother get kids who can't stand them. So either you get better and figure this out, or you're gonna bring that same garbage into the relationship with somebody you will love more than you love your mother, and it'll hurt you. So now's probably a good time for you to do that. Her reaction, which was typical of a young girl, was, oh no, I'm not my mother. So I won't bring that. I said, yes, but the energy you're bringing to me right now about your mother is unhealthy. It's not right. And until you can own that part that you're carrying, you're going to bring that into a relationship with your own daughter someday, and it's going to cause confusion and frustration. So that's the psychology of her. That's the internal bringing. She's a red, sharp girl, has lots of good stuff going on, but her negative blue is sabotaging her. Can't forgive, holds grudges. Fairness is a big deal. That kind of stuff sabotages her sociological or her other orientation to people. In this case, her mother. So I want, I want our listeners to think about okay, so what how do I navigate my life? How much of my life is still being navigated in trauma? Like you go out with people that are still food traumatized. They can't enjoy a meal because they're so worried about is it healthy or unhealthy? Is it good or is it bad? Some people have justification. They have allergies or whatever. That makes sense to me. Like you need to be aware of that then. But other people are just neurotic. Like they really can't just let go of past trauma in their life. So I was working with a uh young woman this week whose father is uh abusive, negative, made tons of money, tons and tons of money. Very, very good at transactional relationships and very smart when it comes to business. But she said, I live in fear being at home with him. If I'm not doing something, I am the problem. I can't just sit on a couch and read. I have to be either going to get a job or get a job or get out of the house or something. That's how I feel with him. My mother, on the other hand, loves me. She loves me and makes me feel wanted and valued. It's driving her to the point she almost feels like she needs to get married sooner, just so she's not a bother to her dad. And I wrote the mother a note. I said, I just want you to know the impact you're having on your children, just so you're aware that I know all the attention that goes to him. I know he's the strong make thing happen when I happen. He has also many wonderful gifts. So he's very, very engaging and drives the camp and whatever. But but I said, you need to know that your love for your child has saved her. It's it offers her a safe place. So I think it's important our listeners think about this. How am I impacting others around me with my personality, with my psychology, right? If I'm always critical, I'm always negative, I never show up for things when I say I will. I am so passive, I don't log in on things that need to be talked about. Um, I'm hostile, I'm angry. I justify my anger because you're an ad you're an idiot. Those kinds of attitudes are psychology impacting the sociology around you. And it's very easy to say, yeah, but you don't know my family, or you don't understand my mother, or you don't know you don't understand my weight issues, or whatever issues they're coming from, they rationalize their inappropriate behavior for how they impact others. And I want people to learn that's not healthy. You start by saying, What am I doing that impacts those around me?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Uh can I ask a question right here?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

So as a psychologist, do you feel like people deserve the requisite amount of confirmation or um being seen in the fact that, okay, yes, you had A, B, and C to deal with. Right? Like, like so noticing that beforegement. I see it, you're right, it was there. Is that enough for somebody to move on? So when you're working with somebody, they have to tell you that, right? So there's energy on that. And then where's your boundary of all right? Now you've you now you're using that not to grow.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Like, is there a so good? Yeah, it's all motive. It's all motive. Like if somebody is using a dirty motive to suck me in to their deprivation, how they were mistreated, why their trauma is legitimate, then I'm like, well, then you have a dirty motive. You're not trying to get better, you're trying to justify why your life doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

No, I'm just trying to make you understand, Taylor. I'm just trying to make you understand.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Okay, and what I want to know is what energy are you putting into making me understand? What value is there in that? So I own you now, by the way. Just so you know, until I understand you the way you want to be understood, I own you. Is that comfortable for you knowing I own you?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Explain that a little bit, T.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Well, see, what happens right now is you come back saying, I I have a right to this because I'm not understood the way I need to be understood. I'm like, I'm fine with that. I can go there as long as you're still progressing. Was what are you doing about it yourself? If all you want me to do is know why you were blind or hurt or damaged, then I'm there already. But if I'm not there enough for you, then you have some motive issues that are unresolved that you need to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I've talked, but what is the so but I don't really think you understand what I've been through, Taylor. I mean, you're just you're hitting it really quick. I lived it for 30 years. Now, I mean, and I'm just supposed to go, okay, move on.

Food Trauma And Everyday Anxiety

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Well, tell me what you're gaining by staying in that rut for 30 years. Like you've been at 30 years. Tell me what you're gonna gain from that and why I should get stuck in it another 10 years to make you feel good about the 30 years you've been stuck in. Help me understand the value in that. Like, what are you gaining from this? Uh, if you can give me a good answer, I might join you. But if what I feel is you're sucking me into something that is destructive, no, I don't want any part of that. And by the way, just so you know, there are other people that were in that same trauma as you that don't need more understanding. So what's that about? What is it about them and you that allows them to move on and you won't?

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Well, maybe it was they didn't have it as bad as I did.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Would you like me to believe that? They help you. I mean, it's so fun because what I love about therapy is it's all gamesmanship. Like if if if somebody tries to work me and manipulate me and win me over, okay, I might play ball with you if I can see a value in it. But if I'm gonna hurt you more by playing into your role, I'm not up for that. You're now you're paying money for me to hurt you. That's not gonna work for me. And a lot of therapists do. They get sucked right into that path, they're a waste of time. You're getting no growth at all, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:35

But the You think you're empathetic as a therapist?

Fearful Home And A Saving Mother

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I'm extremely empathetic. But there's a point where I'm saying I also have to be effective. Like if all I'm gonna do is emphasize what you've been through, you can talk to a friend. Something's gotta help you get off that and move on, right? Well, that's golden. Well, I I have had people I had to refer elsewhere because they wanted hand holding longer than I was willing to do. We've gotten to a point where I think I understood what was going on. I I get it, but now you're working me. And I don't want to be worked. So why don't you go hold someone's hand for a while until you feel strong enough to actually hear what your role is in that relationship? So the weaker somebody is, the harder time they'll have with me. Because I'm more likely to say, I think we've played this game long enough, let's move on. And if they say no, I'll say, okay, tell me why. Give me the motive. I'm always willing, if someone's got a clean motive, to change my orientation. But if they can't give me a clean motive, not going there. Not gonna happen. So the re the way you find that out is you ask, what are you getting out of that? Because typically they're not worried about me. It's all about them, not about me. So I try and focus back on them. Okay, so what are you gaining by being angry? What are you gaining by being stuck? What are you gaining by hating men because your dad was away with? Tell me the value that you've gained by staying stuck.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

And in that situation, what they're trying to do is is really a response of, well, to me anyway, I don't know. But it would be like, tell me I'm right. Tell me I have the right to stay here.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Well said. 100%. Which is a weak orientation, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

So why are they coming to you?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Well, that's my problem. Yeah, I'm like, hello. Like, it's not that I just charge, I also have my life here. Like, I'm gonna give you my time. I am not gonna suck into that world. Right. It just seems I just think I want to start with the psychology of things. You are born in your embryo with a personality, and you should own that. Like, that does impact how you navigate life. Like I've told those stories a million times about the mother who is gone doing school activities or helping in the community or whatever. And the first child says, you know what, you were never there for me. I wanted you home more often. And the second child says, you know what? I I really like that you were gone because I like my own time. And the third child says, I didn't notice you were gone. So they all experience that same woman differently, right? See, when can somebody at least own? You're right. I do have ownership in how I perceived that woman. I have ownership in that. Whether it's a relationship uh of male, female, whether it's parent child, whether it's work employer and employee. I mean, I still think of so many, I so many bosses or CEOs that could be so much more effective if it wasn't transactional, if they really cared about the people, not just the bottom line.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah.

Criticism, Passivity, And Impact

SPEAKER_00 15:35

It's just amazing to me how much more you gain when you move that direction versus staying stuck in a limited psychology. Right, right, right. No ownership. Yeah. So I I think what I'm saying to people is I think we all come from dysfunction. Like they're parents are not perfect. That I mean that's okay. But in my mind, okay, so I I think it's important that people kind of consider do you think that you are strong enough to overcome difficult things? And I I'm one of those people who looks at those people who have suffered things I don't think I could suffer. Like I don't I don't know how well I would have done in Auschwitz. I don't know, right? But I do understand that there are people who survive that. So if they survive that, I can't survive a parent who made me walk home from school. Or in fact, I'll be I'll be honest with you, Kat. I honestly believe helicopter parents do more damage to their children than parents who are absent. That's how bad I feel about it. I I think they teach them not to be an al-value ad. They teach them, I'll take care of everything. I will make life work for you. You don't have to do anything, just show up. Well, no, you don't have to do nothing. You have to engage and bring back to society as a child, learn how to give back. Otherwise, when you become an adult, you're still value added uh empty, empty. You don't bring anything, you're looking for the world to now do for you what your mom and dad did for you. And that's not in your best interest, right? Now, I will say, and we're gonna talk about this in the next podcast about parenting. I will say loving someone is the best gift you can ever give anyone. So what does that look like? So you tell me a person who has loved you and you knew you were loved.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Uh yeah, uh Paco.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

My husband.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

So yeah, it's good that you point that out. So, so what does Paco do that confirms for you you're loved?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

He um he celebrates the way I live life instead of judges me.

Empathy, Motive, And Therapy Limits

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I love that. That's a very cool concept. He celebrates how I live my life instead of judging me. See, I'm I'm thinking now about a client. I saw a young man who's white and he's getting married to a girl who's blue, and she's very driven. Like she is a like she's a soccer player and she loves uh getting these done and having organized plans, and he likes to move through life at a different pace, like slower, more relaxed. But he gets the stuff done. And his question about getting married is can I do this? Like I like having some space at night, and she wants to be always together. And so how she feels loved can be different than how he loves, right? So we're gonna meet, and I'm gonna try and help her understand that needing someone on her level may not allow her to feel loved because Paco could judge how you live life. He doesn't celebrate it, he critiques it, and then he would lose that gift he's giving to you of loving you. You wouldn't feel it. So and it's ironic, you've been married for how long? 25 years. So you mentioned somebody that came into your life 25 years ago, not someone who came into your life when you were born. So then the question I have for you is then how did you navigate your life prior to that, being loved? Without that, what did you do? Psychology, so internally, what did you do to navigate your life more successfully?

SPEAKER_01 19:24

To be successful performed all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

There it goes. Okay. And and so you can see the difference in the quality of your life when you're with those who don't love you and those who love you. So if if we're talking about trying to impact other people in our lives, maybe what we should start with is rather than trying to fix them and challenge them and redirect them, we start by valuing them as they are. And by the way, people with low self-esteem, they don't do that to themselves. They're never good enough unless they are performing, unless they're meeting someone else's expectations. So, in the sense that what I'm saying is the psychology or the internal mechanism that drives you is your personality and your sense of self-love. And if you don't have that, then guess what? You're always looking outside you to find the validation for it. Well, what happens if my mode is dirty? Because I'm not self-loving, so I'm looking for someone else to validate me. Therefore, I'm probably going to find someone who also is dirty, and they'll make me perform or do something in a way to make me lovable, make me worthy of their love. So it's you see the power of starting with your own psychology. What is right about me? What do I love about what I do and how I do it? And I don't care if that's as a red, I get up in the morning and I perform. As a blue, I'm thoughtful. I think of other people. As a yellow, I enjoy the moment. I really love moments in my life. And if it's a white, the peace I bring, the ability to accept people and not judge them that are different than me. Whatever it is you have within yourself, start there. Start by celebrating I am worthy. I have good things about me.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, I I love that so much. My mom is staying with us. She's 99.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

And and we've had these conversations because when at the end of at the end of this amazing journey, she's at what you're talking about. She can't do, right? She can't do it. And you know, she's right. She can't do dishes and she can't do the bed and she can't, you know, she can't sweep the floor and help her. She's yeah. So, you know, so sh we've had really beautiful conversations about that struggle of, you know, her purpose and and the fact that why am I here if I can't do? And it's just hitting so hard right now what you're talking about in terms of that self worth beyond you know, doing. And if you don't bring it together, and we've had a we've had some conversations. It have been really hard and looking at it and saying she can't she just can't get her head around the fact that why would you you know what am I bringing to you? Why are you enjoying that I'm here? Because I tell her every day. Yes, you know, if if I'm not doing anything for you, what are you enjoying about me? And she's very, very white, horrible.

Being Understood Vs Getting Unstuck

SPEAKER_00 22:18

What a beautiful gift you're giving her. She can't even understand it. She can't really can't understand it. Wow. That is so sad because it's so true. She never got life that way. And so now it's much even harder now because she can't give it back, right? And you're saying, no, that that doesn't define you for me, whether you can do or not do. So you're loving her like a newborn child who also can't give back.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Oh, exactly. And I, and you know what's like I said, at the end of the day, how sad that we have gotten to this place of, and I grew up this way. I mean, I understand where it came from.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Right, sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Um, you know, with the with a red father and all of that. Right. Is that that at the end of the day, if we can really get to, and I struggle with it too sometimes, if the end of the day we can get to, you know, the fact that you're sitting there loving me, mom, is enough that you that you look at me, that when we're when I'm putting, you know, to bed at night, we can chat about because she doesn't really have memory anymore, right? It's her memories are fading.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

That must be nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Well, but what but but here's what it is is like you get stripped down to the real core of your strengths and what's wow, what gets stuck.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Who you are, yeah, who you are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Because you're not doing anywhere talk about what happened when and remember the Christmas when because she doesn't remember.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Gotcha. It's just now, here now.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So if I'm not doing, then what am I? Right. And I I think that's actually harder than a newborn. So good for you. That's really hard. It is very hard. But what's sad is this good woman never allowed herself to to really know she was worthy just by being.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

No, it's brought her to tears too, like just our conversations. I mean, just from what I've learned from you in the color code, is like I'm able to have these conversations and not get frustrated with her about, you know, after I've said it 700 times when she's been here, it's like right now she gets emotional, you know, like she start kind of crying. Yeah, and um and I'll and I'll let her know that we we chatted about her. Um, so you know, but but you don't remember anyway.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

So don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Oh, you're so cruel. Um, that's true. Um, so but but I just love that it's like there's even at 99, she's like, I do think she's doing a little excavating and letting some things in, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

She's so good. Well, if she can tender about it, she is right.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

But look at but but what you started with is that psychology of worth of what are you adding that isn't just about um doing doing.

Born Personalities And Perception

Worth Beyond Doing And Parenting

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Well, just the ability to appreciate people as they are and appreciate being around certain people or whatever it is you're doing, that is valuable. It's not like you have to perform. I get so frustrated when people say my self-worth is tied to my doing. And I'm like, I love doers, but don't get me wrong. I love that people clean things up and get things done, organize, and order. There's so much value in that. I mean, it's so, but don't mistake that for true self-esteem, which comes from just being, just knowing that I have worth because I live. And I think what saddens me, Kat, is very few people seem to get that in life. They don't navigate life from that perspective. It's like my wife is helping, my granddaughter's getting married in June, and she's adorable. She's very fun and delightful. And her yellow mother, who has always been easy, always. Like she just gets life, likes life, life likes her back. I mean, she's that kind of person. She is so appreciative of Jean, my wife. Her, she's so talented and so creative. Yeah. And Mikkel makes it easy because she appreciates it. She doesn't do so much as she just appreciates my wife does, right? And I think people don't, they underestimate the value in that. Whereas other people I've seen, they're fighting against it, and I don't want you to be more creative than I am, and that kind of stuff. That's not Mikhail. She doesn't. Yeah. So again, I would say there are certain elements, that's good. You mentioned jealousy. There are certain insecurities that drive people to places in life, which is like jealousy, or I have to be better than you. Insecurities that make it not possible to really enjoy being you. Because while I'm being jealous of somebody, I can't enjoy me because I'm not measuring up, right? And I just think it's very uh it's very critical our audience understands that the greatest gift you can give somebody is to love them because they are, not because of what they do. And I've seen people do this. I've seen people with a kid that doesn't want to eat, and he's frustrating, he's difficult. And this parent will look at him and say, Okay, so you're making my life interesting. I have to come up with better ways to convince you to want to eat. Let's work on that. What might make a difference? And they take that attitude as opposed to frustration and anger, which is all about them. Why should I have to spend more time on this? Why don't you appreciate me that what I could do cook? It's just a different psychology, it's a different mindset. The more you can get in that space, or if you have a child that's uh maybe taking longer to get out of the house. Okay. Is that the end of the world? Again, go back to motive. Like, in all fairness, 28 is the new 18. Like with inflation and COVID and things that happen, these kids are delayed from what we were. And I think it's very ineffective to say, well, that's your problem. You need to do what I did, and here's what I did, how I did it. It's much more appropriate to say, let's talk about how we can make this work for you. How can we make this happen for you? For example, if they need to save money while they're living at home with you and they're not able to do so, then you can parent them and say, I'm going to take so much money and I'm giving it back to you when you're ready to go. But it's not mine, it's yours. But I don't trust you to save it, so I'll help you. Um, that's so much better than saying, No, I'm so mad at you. You stay with us, you sleep on the couch, take advantage of us, but you're not saving your money. That's not helping or loving. It's judging or critiquing, right? It's people know when you want them to win. People know. They feel it. So you can say, I'm trying to help you all you want. They don't believe that. So it really comes from within how you present out, is what I'm saying. It comes from within. And you can pretend. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

I was gonna say what I was having a conversation with my daughters yesterday because um this they're just having a month and you know, needed some help. So, you know, sending them a little bit of help for cursory money. And yeah, and I just I just did it. I've I know, I know. I like stepped on my own head yesterday, and I was like, I attached the gift with something else, uh, which was so okay, I'm gonna help you out, and and I'm gonna tell you one thing. Already, they're like, you know, never mind, mom, we'll eat ramen. Uh, we would rather not go through it.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Maybe they should be eating ramen.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Well, well, I think they should. I mean, you know, it's but but it's just so funny because it's like Emma Kenna's great because you know, she's she's a product of this of this household and this material too. And she and she said, when you do that, it feels like you know, you you're you're using your gift um in the wrong way. Like you're using the gift you're giving to me in the wrong way. Like, okay, well, I'm gonna give you this, but listen, next time you decide to go out or go out to dinner or go to a hockey game, you know, maybe you want to think about this, and it's like that is not who I am.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, so I'm gonna go one step further. Okay. What would happen if you were to say to McKenna, so when you ask this, this is how that feels to me. What would that what would that sound like? What would you what would you say it feels like to you when she asks you for money?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I get like I I start judging what they're doing with the money they have. That's what I'm saying. What are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

What what are you feeling about you being taken advantage of?

SPEAKER_01 30:51

I I don't really feel that.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

I feel like Well, if you didn't, why would you say to them next time? Well, that's true, do better.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

I I I guess I'm I'm I'm trying to like shift it down to you know, like getting down to the rule of cuts of it. I probably do, maybe a little taken advantage of or and because you can yes, but but I never got and here's what weaves in, which is really sick. I never got that.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Gotcha. Yeah, that's oh that's a big one for a lot of people. A lot of people like, wait a minute, no one was there for me when that happened. Right. But then I look at you versus her. I'm like, well, did you gain from that? Did it benefit you? Did you grow?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah.

Celebrating Partners, Not Fixing Them

SPEAKER_00 31:33

I mean, it's so interesting. Yeah, so when I put something on you, like I never think about my issue. I'm I'm I'm not dirty, I'm poor. I need something. So why ain't I dirty? I'm not the issue. And all of a sudden I'm attacking you, expecting you to not be uh at all uncomfortable with me taking advantage of you. And so that's where this whole reverse roles goes with me. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, I I get special needs. Like I get it. There are certain people, they are special needs, right? I I mean, I I get that, I understand that, and I think we need to be there for those kind of people because they really cannot cap, they're not capable. Right. But there are other people who act special needs who are not. Right. And that's where we don't do them any favors because then they are acting special needs thinking they have a right to be because you have it and I don't. Yes. So that's where it kind of becomes interesting. I I just I'm I know I I harbor on this, but I wish people understood. I'm not the color guy, I am the motive man. It is all motive to me. At the end of the day, if you don't get your motive, like I'm telling you, this book that I'm reading, I love it so much more because I know he's read. So when he does things, he says things that I'm like, oh, please, come on, get over yourself. I I at the same time, I love stuff he's saying. It's really good, it's really interesting, it's very well put together, very vulnerable, exposes himself. But understanding his motive, his insecurity, uh, his selfishness, it makes it easier to accept, okay, that's where he's coming from. So it's it's often, I think one of the greatest gifts you can give people is go where they are, not where you are. And I think that it's very important that the way we love others is we accept them where they are, but we allow them to pay their own prices. Like pay your dues. That's how you get better in life. But I accept that's a struggle for you. Like when I talk to whites that have a hard time opening up and sharing conflict, I don't think, well, what's wrong with you? It's so easy. I don't have to think that at all. I think it's unbelievably hard for them.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Uh, it's no less hard for me to be organized. Like, come on. We all have our flaws and our insecurities, right? But I think once you can own that they're okay where they are, and then here's what your motive is and how you deal with them, I think that makes it much cleaner. It's a much cleaner relationship.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

I just am asking our listeners not to get sucked in with dirty motives and don't have dirty motives when you attend to people. And your ability to embrace your mother, whether she's deserving of it or not, that's irrelevant. That's the whole point. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Right.

Self-Love, Validation, And Motives

SPEAKER_00 34:25

It's the stronger people are, the more they can do that. And it's almost like having a handicapped child. The question is, if you knew you were going to have a handicapped child, would you have it anyway? And the stronger people say yes. Like that doesn't dictate my love. The weaker people say no. No, no, I need to get something back. I can't just give and not get. And a weaker person in your role would say, Well, no, you're really right, mom. I'm getting nothing out of this. So really, enough's enough. That's how they and they would, if they would feel that way, they may help, they may do, they may put her to bed. They would not feel the love. They would feel taken advantage of. So again, what I would say, like if you were talking to me and you're upset at your mom, whatever, and I'd be saying, Okay, so tell me about the energy. So, what are you gaining from this? Like, well, I'm doing the right thing. That's what a kid should do for their parent. Okay. Well, it doesn't sound like it's the right thing because you're not embracing it as a good experience. So I have to challenge you on that. Does that make sense? 100%. When you presented it to me, all I felt was love and appreciation and genuine clean motive. Totally different, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, and and I can, it's so clear about what you're saying, just talking to people or looking at is as is this, you know, unwilling to go there because of history. Like, well, when I was young, she, and then keep going to that point. Yes, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yes, which is sad because why I mean there are people that do that for people that gave no history, there's nothing in their life that even dictates they they help them, right? So I think that's really beautiful. It's it's a great place to get again. I I want our listeners to know it goes back to energy. If your energy is healthy, that's your dog loving it loving you.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

No, if it goes that's my dog bullying me is what that's happening.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Well done. And you read it well. So if your energy is presenting itself in a loving, inviting way, probably you're on the right path. If there's baggage, negativity, anger tied to it, you ought to recheck it. All right, we're out of time today. All done for today. So again, I want our listeners to think the sociology is how others impact you and how you impact others, uh, or the group dynamic. Psychology is how you what you bring to the table. What is it about you that impacts life? Life.

unknown 36:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Okay. Have a great month. We love you guys. Love you guys.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

All right, bye bye.