Doing Your Work Means Owning Your Motives Even When Nobody Else Does

“Do your work” can sound like a slogan until you’re staring at a relationship where you’re growing and the other person is not. Taylor Hartman and Cat Larson get specific about what real inner work looks like when you’re tempted to go petty, demand fairness, or wait for someone else to change first. We share client stories that expose a common illusion: believing you’ve earned a pass because you’ve already done some healing, while your life keeps circling the same drain.

We talk compassion for people who won’t take responsibility, and why compassion doesn’t mean tolerating damage. Then we go deeper into spiritual growth, especially forgiveness. If you stay in a marriage while withholding love and respect, you may be “coping,” but you’re not actually aligned. Forgiveness is framed as a practice that frees you from resentment, helps you see differently, and restores legitimacy to how you live, even when the other person may never evolve.

We also connect the dots to comfort zones and the Color Code personality framework. Every personality has strengths to honor and limitations that quietly sabotage mental health, boundaries, and relationships. You’ll hear practical ways to check motives, stop outsourcing your power, speak up in the moment, and listen to what you’ve been refusing to hear.

If this conversation helps you name your next step, subscribe, share it with someone who’s doing the work too, and leave a review. What part of your growth are you avoiding right now?

Take the Personality and Character Profiles at TaylorHartman.com.

Send questions and comments to Taylor@TaylorHartman.com  Or Cathy@TaylorHartman.com with “Podcast” in the subject line.

Transcript

Welcome And The Big Question

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hello, listeners. This is Dr. Taylor Hartman with The Very Best of Living, which is becoming a very important theme in life. I'm with my good friend Kat Larson. Hi, Kat.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Hi, Taylor.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Good to hear you and good to see you. So we're going to talk today about something that I find very, very fascinating, very important. It has to do with what does it mean to do your work? And what does it feel like when you're doing your work and others aren't? Or what happens if I'm delusional thinking I'm doing my work when I'm not doing anything different and my life isn't working any better, but I can't see my part in that.

When Growth Separates You

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Beautiful. So this all came together with a very uh one of my my favorite clients. I I I love this person. She is such a strong driven, wants to learn, wants to grow. And she came to me about whether she should pursue a conversation with her parents about them not doing their part in the relationship, even though she's made every effort to make things really, really go well. And so it was very interesting, kind of what I realized in our conversation was, as you know, I don't I don't cut up branches. I want to go to the root. And so I went to the root of her issue and I said, you know what I've decided? I think you're not done with your work. I think the work you've done has elevated your experience such that you are moving away from people who aren't doing their work. So now you have to pursue your adventure on your own again. And I think the next step in your work is compassion. I think you need to work on how do you have compassion for those undeserving thereof, who are not willing to do their work, who really think they try and make it you instead of take ownership themselves. And as being someone who's done her work, she was receptive. She didn't get petty or go victim. I've carried the weight for everybody. I've done this my whole life. I don't deserve to keep doing this. She could have said that in a heartbeat, but she wouldn't because that's not someone who does their work. She was very willing to hear immediately, you're right. That's my work. And she just embraced it, like, not like baggage. She just said, you know what? That's the next part of the mountain. I need to climb. And thank you for saving me from saying something that probably would have been harsh, unwelcome, wouldn't have helped anybody in the first place. But I just needed the validation that I was doing the right or the wrong thing. I wanted that feedback. And that's one of the reasons, Kat, I love groups of people who are elevating each other, helping each other, growing each other. It's kind of a lonely work when you do the work we're talking about in mental health. And by the way, it reminded me of another person I've recently worked with that her mental health has grown dramatically.

Marriage Without Love And Legitimacy

SPEAKER_00 3:11

She's so much better than she was for years. But she's done with her husband. I'm done. And so what was interesting is I said to her, Well, I think there's some work for you to do spiritually. And she was kind of taken back. She goes, Oh, I've never thought about that. I said, Well, I know people who are mentally healthy, but they have not done more work spiritually, like raise their gain. And so I want to talk to you about forgiveness. So her husband had done some damage to her, so much so that she stopped loving him. Now she decided at their age it's better not to move out. They have many, many places that are good. The family's wonderful. All the things she's wanted, she's created outside of him. So it doesn't make sense to leave him. No, I get it. I pragmatically, I understand that. But you can't stay and tell me spiritually and mentally you're doing your work by not loving him. That doesn't work for me. I know why you did it. I totally understand that. I get it. But you have dismissed him from your life. You don't tell him when you're going to bed because you don't care. You're independent. You do your own thing. There's no moral relationship going on. And you've justified that with I don't like him. I wouldn't pick him again, but I'm trapped. Okay, well, you can be trapped. I get that you feel trapped, but if you want to do your work spiritually, you must forgive what happened to you, what he did to you, and then learn to be okay with him again. You have to see him differently than you have accepted that you need to see him right now. Because you've justified not loving him because of what he did. But you can't stay and have your cake if you're not going to also do your work. And she was remarkably receptive. She said, You know what? I don't believe it's going to happen. He doesn't learn, he doesn't get it. I get it. He thinks he is, and he's better than he was for sure, but I don't think he'll understand me. I said, Well, then do your homework, write it down, send it to me. We'll meet once a month with him and go over some of the stuff that you did. But I want you to believe you can make a difference. Number one, this is more for you than for him. Because you're stuck. You're you're not you're swirling the drain. You're not getting better. But it's also for him.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Can I ask a question here? Yeah. She's stuck, even though that she seems pretty clear, she's defined the problem. She sees that she can't, but she's stuck because she thinks that it's legitimate to stay in it, have all this realization and growth and stay in it because there are some easy parts of it. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah, that's a great question. No, she's justifying illegitimacy. Okay. And and what I loved about her was she was willing to hear me. Like she could have said, You have no idea. You didn't go for those 20 years, like I did. I'm no, no, no, no more. But she was so responsive. She goes, I I don't trust it yet. I said, Well, I need you to be more proactive. I need you to be more positive about it, not negative, uh, if you're gonna do this. But I also accept the fact he may not evolve and that may not work. But that's still what I think is your work to do, to learn to forgive and not justify staying illegitimate.

The Bandage Problem In Therapy

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So, what I want our listeners to think about is have I fallen into that trap that makes it okay for me to think I've done my work, therefore I'm free of continuing to do my work. And it's almost like when you go to the hospital and they put a band-aid on your finger. So, okay, they treated the problem you came with, but there's things you're doing on a regular basis that's going to get your finger cut again. It's gonna cause more problems again. So now we need to talk about what you're going to do to alter that from happening so you don't have to come back in. But you're thinking, I fixed the band-aid. Like, thank you, let's go. And most people in therapy go for that reason. Let's fix the band-aid, give the band-aid on the problem, and I'm done. People that do their work are like, oh no, I know I can see where I was part of this. I have ownership, I have things to work on myself. I'm gonna take ownership for that. I'm gonna work on those things that caused me to come in with to need the band-aid, and then I'm gonna work on not having to come back in again. That's that's really good therapy when that happens.

Waiting For Others To Change

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Do you find that when like like people take a couple good steps and then it's like then they just kind of step back and relax and go, okay, I did this, and then you wait for somebody else to move something on the chessboard, right? Like, I did this, now it's your turn to do this.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Right. Yes. Okay, and that's not healthy. No, it's not healthy at all because you're waiting for something else to own after you'll control your life. You're you're waiting for them to do so then you can respond instead of being proactive and creating the life you want. And by the way, I I am a big believer in comfort zones. I think a lot of people go through life just wanting comfort. Like that's what they choose as opposed to truth. And I have a client right now that I just love this person. I've known her probably 60 years, like forever I've known her. And she was sexually abused by her dad, by school genders, by her husband. I mean, she has really experienced some trauma. She now is a wonderful man in her life, but she's never done her work. She didn't want to go back and look at it. And she said, Do you really think I can do this? And I said, Oh, absolutely you can do it. I know you can. It'll be hard, but you can do it. And she

Comfort Zones And Facing Trauma

SPEAKER_00 8:50

has started the process of journaling what she actually went through, what she actually did. She can actually see moments when she sacrificed her brother to her father by setting him up and her getting away and taking ownership where, oh my gosh, I am guilty and that. I mean, such good work she's doing. And then she'll say, I hit a I hit a rock, I can't move, I'm I'm stuck for a minute, and we'll talk it through and she'll proceed. Like she'll do, she'll face that issue again. So I love the fact she's doing the work, but I want people to know I admire so much the fact that she's willing to do it. She could have stayed hidden, right? But she chose to actually embrace that. So when I say do your work, I mean you have to own what is it you think life should look like or could look like if you were clean. I can't have any excuses or justifications for why you're taking a petty approach or a comfortable route. I need to know you're willing to play the truth game with me.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Not just Is there any is there any legitimate reason not to choose? Is there anything you've ever heard in your, you know, 50 years of count 60 years, if you've been meeting with this lady for 60 years? Is there anything you've ever heard that says, yeah, you're right, that that's a legitimate place to hang out?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I will say this. I have learned long ago it's not my right to impose truth on others. If they don't want to embrace it, if they're not capable of embracing it, that's their path. And I learned that a long time ago from a friend of mine who was so successful. And he said, Taylor, I've I've realized by marrying my wife and her quality of life, how different it is than mine. Her people are very happy with things I would never consider enough. I would never satisfy, but they are. So why am I trying to impose on them a better lifestyle when they're fine with what they have? They don't want to pay the price. So I've it's helped me with people I work with. If they don't want to pay the price, then they don't have to pay the price. But the consequences still come. They will still have the consequences, right? So there's consequences everywhere. Remember what I talked about to love hard. So you can love hard and do your work, and life is better, or you can love hard by not doing your work, right? And like it's harder, longer, but it feels easier. So yeah, I suppose there's people I've worked with that have said, you know, coming from where you're coming from, I get it, right? You're probably not willing to put the effort in to make more happen, but that's still your call. You still have to own that one.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah, but what's great about that is it's you're not making the decision. You're you're not saying you're right, you can stay there. That is a legitimate pain point. Right. Uh, you're saying that's your choice.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Well, like this woman I just talked to, like she justifiably could say, and her friends would all feed this, her children would agree with it. Everyone would agree with it, right? I still cannot say to her good faith, it's okay. I know I'm giving her a false hood. Like I literally am saying to her, it's okay for you to have problems in your life that you're creating and justifying it. I'd much rather you know up front, no, it's not okay. And the consequences are going to be serious for your own growth. But you can still choose that. That's still your path if you choose to. I think it's important for therapists not to have the self-righteous nature

Truth Without Imposing It

SPEAKER_00 12:14

of, no, no, you have to do what I think you ought to do to get better. No, you don't have to do it. But I mean, that's like in fitness. There's people that are willing to pay the price for fitness. You've been doing that lately, and those that aren't. So you can't have a fitness instructor go, well, you have to do it. Well, no, they don't. They can walk out of the gym. So I think we have to understand agency is a big piece of this life. And people have the right to choose how they want their life to go. They just can't choose the consequences that come with it.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

It's so good that you said that. I was just having this conversation with the guy that's coaching me in the gym. And we were talking about the fact that you can do all of these things. You can work out every day, you can do 45 minutes cardio, you can do all of this stuff. The real driver of what I'm doing is the food, right? So in this analogy that you're talking about is people can, and here's the thing that's the most disciplined place or undisciplined place. You know, at 7:30 at night and you want to eat your arm off, you're like, okay, what am I doing here? Um, but I think what the point about that is is that you can kid yourself into thinking, I'll just work out harder over here, I'll do this more, right? Or I'll do more cardio. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. So what you're saying is people can choose to stay in these places that aren't about, you know, what's really going to change them.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Or empower them, not uh change, empower, self-awareness, you know, the the work that you bring to people, we bring to people.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Well, and if they don't want it, they don't want it. Like yeah, I mean,

Agency And Consequences

SPEAKER_00 13:46

the problem is they think they want it, they say they want it, but then like you said, they're not willing to do the food part. Well, okay, then you really don't want it. But the person who thinks they really want it is justifying it, but I work out so hard, or I can work up, make up for it the next day. So there are principles in mental health that whether you like them or not, they're true. And and that's why I actually mentioned that spiritual development also, because it goes higher than just good mental health. And that's the part people have to understand. If you really want to ascend the mountain, you can't just stop with one element. You have to keep growing and developing. My congratulations to people that have entered the work, like are willing to do their work on themselves, but just know it doesn't end. As you continue to get better, you'll tackle things that you would never have thought you had to tackle before. Like, for example, being criticized for caring, like being criticized for not enabling someone. Like you have money, you can afford to pay for something, and you don't go that route because it's the easy route, but it's not not the right route. And then they criticize you and condemn you for not being generous. And because you've learned that's not healthy, you hold your own, but you're criticized. So God bless you as listeners, if you've been one of those people who's on the path of growth and development and not rewarded for it from others. That's hard. And I hope you have people in your life that can maybe give you validation for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Could you, in your words, we've talked about this before, but I think it's important here when you talk about that spiritual growth. Would you define spirituality in your terms?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

I think spirituality is embracing any godlike crate that would enhance the quality of your life and others around you. So, for example, patience. Um, that's very hard for certain colors, but it's still a God-given principle. Determination. It's it's a God-given principle. You have to take responsibility for your life, right? Forgiveness. I've talked about this before on the podcast. I it's such a critical godlike trait. And yet, mental health people don't really believe it. Like they will excuse people right and left for not forgiving.

Fitness Analogy And Real Drivers

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I'm like, well, you're wrong. You're giving them a false truth. They won't get better. It'd be like in your workout scenario, you can eat what you want because I understand you've four cathardt. It's like saying that.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

All you're doing is lying to people, but okay, it feels better in the moment, right? So those are anything that is enhancing the quality of life for those around you and you that's more godlike, in my mind, is true spirituality.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

And you talked about comfort zones, and if you talk about colors for a minute, I mean, my brain goes to, you know, the core whites tend to like to be comfortable because of, you know, the lack of conflict and all of that. Color-wise, do you find those comfort zones more, you know, prevalent in some in a color?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

No. For example, reds are often vulnerable to the comfort zone of image. They love looking good and having lots of money and being successful. And they run with people like that, and they are the ones who buy

Defining Spiritual Growth

SPEAKER_00 16:56

the right kind of clothes to look in the right places. That's their comfort zone. And when you strip them naked and say, you know what, that is there's no character in that, there's no depth in that. That for them is a big stretch. Whereas the white may be very comfortable saying, good point. Yeah, I don't really care about my image, but they would hate conflict. They would hate calling something out, right? So everybody has a like yellows, it's often showing up. Like I they'll like me anyway. It's not that I'm fine when I'm there. No, that's a comfort zone for you. You're not doing your work, right? So for every color, I think for blues, for example, it's getting over yourself. Like they feel things so deeply that uh it's a comfort zone to be a victim. And a good blue does not rest there. They do their work and move forward. Um, an unhealthy blue, they will settle in the comfort zone of I people understand why I'm in pain. They understand why I shouldn't have to do my work. Um put up with it so long as is. So all colors are vulnerable to different comfort zones. And what might attract somebody wouldn't attract me at all. And it's not even my problem, but my problem isn't their problem.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

True. True. And and looking at, you know, like when you say do your work, and I know you're restating, but I think it's like so so many people can latch onto a a concept and then not really be able to take it and metabolize it. So in Hartman, you know, in your model, in your process, the school of thought that you have built, do your work sounds like what maybe bullet pointed. One what.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah. Well, okay, first of all, get right with your color. Like it's a God-given gift that you're born with a personality that makes you who you are. So be true to if you're yellow, be fun. Like play to that. Don't don't apologize for because others don't value what you're driven by, right? If you're a red and you make things happen, you need to be making good things happen. So every color, like if you're a blue, genuinely connect with people. Like make it about making that connection important. And and if you're a white, like bring peace, like bring that that sense of acceptance of people that are necessary, not necessarily like you. So let's start by getting the color right, right? Then number two, play to your strengths. So you have natural gifts in your personality. Those are things you should play to. Don't apologize for them. Don't don't dismiss them. Like, I sadly have stories of people that were dismissed for being who they are. Well, women know this. Like, there's women in relationships that are often been dismissed because they're women. How does that even make sense? But so a woman who actually comes to terms with, no, I'm proud of being a woman, I'm not going to apologize for being a woman. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about with your color. Like, value whatever you're born to be. Then find the flaws, the limitations that are keeping you from living life more abundantly. So every one of us has things that are limiting us. Find the one that is most damaging and commit to a process of overcoming that. That's developing character. What could I work on to actually take that out of my life to prevent me from my go-to is my limitation. Instead of like if I'm yellow and I get angry quickly, just go white. Just sit in it for a minute. You don't have to react in the moment. You think you do, you don't, right? If you're a white, ask the question. Don't just think it, ask it. Say something, right? Because your limitation is hating conflict. So every color can find those strengths they can play to and then find the limitations that are blocking you from succeeding. If

How Each Color Avoids Growth

SPEAKER_00 20:45

you have limitations outside your color, they're more damaging than inside your color. So you need to know what those are. So if I'm a yellow and I'm doing um uh unforgiving, so that's blue, but I'm doing it. How fun am I to be around? I'm just I'm just negative and unhappy because people did me wrong, right? Right. So you have to really get rid of those also. Like they're not going to enhance the quality of your life. When I say do your work, cat, I really mean get congruent, get aligned with who you are, and then let's start taking apart those things that are limiting you, that are preventing you from living life abundantly, or having the kind of relationships you'd like to have in your life.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

No, that's great because that's really clear, and and it can't be construed as, you know, because do your work sounds a little bit vague when people ask you.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I think most people don't know what it means. They don't. And anytime I'm telling you, anytime you have a dirty motive, you're not doing your work. Period. So you can justify it. Well, look what they did to me. Well, why should I have to be the first one to forgive? Or you can justify any way you want, right? But it's not doing your work. Every time you go petty or justify, you're dirty. And so you're not doing your work. And that's Why I applaud people who are doing their work because lots of people don't do their work. They're like, no, I don't have to. I shouldn't have to. Right? There's people that aren't even aware they have work to do. Like they've been coddled and allowed to run amok on their whole life. I get so frustrated with parents that don't teach their children being responsible because at some point the world is not going to accept that. And yet they don't even know they have work to do. They were taught it was okay. They were fine. So I think it's really, really it's really cool. Like a good coach, for example, on a team helps every player understand what they're doing to dismantle the team and what they could do to enhance the team. Here's the traits you can bring. Here's how you can make us all better. That's what we're trying to do with mental health. What are the things that you could do to enhance what you bring to the team, the world? And what are you doing to sabotage that, to block that from happening? Okay. So that's what doing your work means to me. And the second part of that is there are people who don't do their work. So what do you do with them? Like you have to accept that they

A Clear Checklist For Doing Work

SPEAKER_00 23:05

have the right not to do their work, just not at your expense. That's the problem. People that don't set boundaries keep toxic people destructively hurting their life. And I'm like, well, you're not doing your work. You need to step up and say something. Like this woman who's got a struggle with her husband, I said to her, you need to tell him when he is not being listening, when he's being destructive, you need to tell him right then, what you just did does not make me want to be with you. Here's what you did. It's like when a dog poops, you have to tell him right then. You can't just say, Well, I'm not going to say it. I've told him before. He doesn't get it. That's not no, you'll get a dog that poops in your house all the time. So it's the same with people. If they are allowed to poop in your life and you never actually stop them and say, You just did this. That does not work for me. That's not doing your work. So sometimes people around you, they're harder on doing your work than other people. Some people don't make you have to do your work because they're just great people. But a lot of people, they're not. And quite frankly, people who have frontline office jobs, like they work with the public. Oh my gosh, I look at some of these people that deal with raw public, like they're impressive to me. They don't go petty when the first line the person does. They come to their counter and they're they're being critical or judgmental or rigid. Or it's amazing to me how an 18-year-old who's running a cash register can sometimes be doing their work better than the person who's uh the customer. It's unbelievable. So I think so. Doing your work means doing your work even when others around you don't choose to do their work. You can't give them a pass and yourself pass.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, and it is funny how much support you get when you don't want to do your work from people who also don't want to do their work because it's it's you know, it's just it's a it's a green light society, right? It's like yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

They're jerks. I give you a pass, I expect one too.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

It's still selfish. I'm just looking for my own out by telling you, I agree with you, cat. I would go, I would, I would do the same thing. I'm just expecting you to make make me not do my work either. And you're right, most of the world will say, Oh, I agree with that. Like I said before, if you're a woman struggling with your man in your relationship, don't go out with women, talk about how men don't function. Go talk to men. Like, what can I do to be more effective? Yeah, you have to do your work. Go into the hostile territory, don't go to your comfort zone and think you're gonna tell you something good.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Well, yeah. And I also think, too, that it's like people don't have to understand, you know, like people who don't understand don't have to understand. It's not your job to convince people like, I want to step into this with this very unhealthy person because of who I am. I mean, this is really what I got working in color code for the last 30 years, is like, I want to look back and go, I put this energy in. I didn't have an expectation, but I wanted to go, here's what I did, here's what I said, here's, you know, I showed up and said that hurt me, but can we do anything with it? And then if people choose to walk away, but I used to poll people about that. Like, what do you think? And I'm doing this, and is that a good idea?

Boundaries With People Who Won’t

SPEAKER_01 26:14

But it doesn't matter anymore to me.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

That's so good. You know, like if you're honest, if you're looking at your motive, you probably your motive was maybe looking for comfort of tell me I don't have to do it, right? Yes. So good point. I mean, the reality is if you do it correctly, you can walk away with your head held high. And no, the consequences are irrelevant. I mean, that because it takes two to tango. Yeah, just because you're doing the right thing doesn't mean they will.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah, no, I love that. I think those points are so great. I mean, I hope our listeners, you know, you write that down. And you know, it doesn't, and it's not like you can do it in 24 hours, like looking at your strengths is hard sometimes, yes, and really and really putting them into play. Even harder to look at your limitations, yes, even harder to look at your limitations for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

And so I'm gonna say cat one last comment. I really think it's important that our listeners listen.

Listening Better And Closing

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Like, I I am kind of surprised at things in my life that were said repeatedly and I didn't get them because I wasn't listening. So that's on me. Yeah, if you don't ever hear what people are telling you, someone said to me the other day, I was never seen. I repeatedly asked for this or this. Like I repeatedly said, put the phone down, and they didn't. And I just finally didn't care anymore. And I said, Okay, so if you want to do your work, start by listening to what you're maybe not hearing around you. And and that's a great introduction to, and then be humble enough to go, that's on me. You're right. I didn't I didn't hear that, I didn't see it because I didn't choose to listen.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

So all right, we got a quick okay. We love you. We're so grateful you're with us on this journey. This was one of my favorite topics because doing your work is is all about, but I'm glad we have the chance to kind of flush it out today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Have a great month. We love you guys. Um, let us know what you want to hear about. This today came from a listener who wanted to know more and said, please do a podcast on it. So we are listening to you. Thanks again, Kat. Always a pleasure. Listeners, we love you. See you. Bye now.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

All right, love you, bye bye.