HubSpot Got the Blame, But Does the Whole Industry Have the Same Problem?

The HubSpot data enrichment controversy generated plenty of heat. Alexi Hatch, CMO of Acoustic, is more interested in the light.

Speaking with CX Today's Rhys Fisher, Hatch reframes the episode not as a one-company scandal but as a symptom of a wider industry habit she calls "signal debt" — the over-reliance on borrowed, static enrichment data that tells you what a contact's job title was last quarter but nothing about what they actually want today.

"Piling on more enrichment and external data feels like deeper customer understanding, but it's just an illusion of intelligence," Hatch says. "The antidote to signal debt isn't borrowing more consumer signals, it's having the in-house capabilities to analyze better ones."

The conversation covers where brands typically go wrong, with Hatch pointing to declining open rates and flat engagement as the clearest early signs that a CRM built on static data is running out of road. She also draws a hard line on consent — opt-in, she argues, is black and white, and brands that rely on "fuzzy" opt-ins are storing up a trust problem that no amount of enrichment will fix.

The discussion then shifts to the activation gap: collecting behavioral data is one challenge, but acting on it fast enough to be relevant is another. If the insight and action layers of your tech stack can't talk to each other in real time, the window closes before the message lands.

For CX and marketing leaders trying to make sense of where the industry goes from here, it's a grounded and practically useful conversation. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello and welcome to CX Today. I'm Reese Fisher, Associate Editor, and today I'm delighted to be joined by Alexi Hatch, the CMO of Acoustic. Alexi, thanks for joining me. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. I'm today's a good day, so all's well.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Good. I'm glad to hear. I'm uh yeah, no, thanks for joining us. I'm I'm really looking forward to the chat. You know, we're going to be, I guess more generally, we're going to be reflecting a little bit on the news from a couple of weeks back around where HubSpot updated its terms of service to allow enrichment data to be shared across customer accounts, which uh unsurprisingly, I guess, to everyone apart from HubSpot, pretty much, it caused uh caused a bit of a backlash to the point where they reversed that decision four days later and ended up having to apologize for it. I guess sort of amongst the understandable anger and and indignation. I think perhaps you have maybe a bit more of a nuance take on this Alexi. You I know you've called out what you dub signal debt, kind of the industry's uh over-reliance on borrowed enrichment data. I suppose from a customer experience or contact center perspective, what does that debt look like in practice?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, it's you know, the the the HubSpot thing is it's so interesting that it it actually came from them of all you know companies that first off, like they are you know a CRM business that is you know reliant on opt-ins. Um, and so it's interesting that they kind of tore down that piece a little bit for their customers, which rightfully so, right? Made their customers really upset, um, which is entirely fair. Um the other part of it, which I don't think people are realizing or like noticing, is it's all just borrowed data and enrichment data. And how valuable really is that? So when I talk about signal debt, that's what I'm referring to is you know, us marketers, we're trying so hard to create the richest profiles in our CRM. But when you really dig into that, how valuable is it if you know that this person has an updated title? Or, you know, like all of this kind of standard metrics where you understand now like what their tech stack looks like, um, versus what they're actually engaging in real time, um, which is much more that behavioral data. And so that's what I'm referring to when I say signal debt is that it becomes less and less valuable the more static the data is. And so while the concept of, you know, this kind of co-op data, you know, sharing data enrichment thing is interesting, it doesn't address the actual relevance thing that I think HubSpot is actually trying to solve for is how do we help our customers send more relevant information and data? And that's not what's being solved at all through a data co-op. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah, that's really interesting. So obviously, we hear a lot about obviously the the importance of data, especially with the use of AI now, but perhaps we don't hear that framing very often, kind of almost maybe good or bad is a bit of a simplistic way, but I guess more effective and less effective data that teams have to have at their disposal.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it's you know, everybody, I know everybody at this point is like, oh, AI, you know, uh data is the most powerful thing to AI. It's what makes AI, you know, valuable, which is true. Now I think it's really the responsibility of people to be like, oh, what does our own data look like? You know, like really actually how valuable it is it, because if it is truly static data that you're just enriching from other, you know, tools, there is no real-time information in there versus behavioral data of what is somebody doing on your website right now? What did they purchase today? Um, what are they interested in today? Um, what did they, what would what did they show interest in yesterday, and then they stopped showing interest today? You know, that's a much more powerful signal and information to be making decisions off of than kind of the static signal or static um, you know, data enrichment that that people are focused on today.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Makes a lot of sense. I'm wondering, I'm not I'm not sure how kind of relevant this question would be, but are there any sort of early signs or warnings that business is perhaps building up or relying too heavily on this static data or signal debt?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah, for sure. I mean, when we look at, you know, how is this how is this static data used? Well, it's used to create a segment and then you're sending out emails or push notifications or whatever your mode of communication is. It could also be, you know, what your sellers are using to inform how they uh do outreach, you know, anything like that. Um and so I think the the performance that shows up is that you see engagement rates decline, you see open rates decline, you see, you know, kind of this overall downward trend of maybe some core vitals or metrics that you've looked at before. Um, that maybe or you know, even if they haven't declined, have they improved at all over time? Right. Because it's in theory, right, it should be hey, the more relevant the messaging is, the more thoughtful the messaging is, um, the more timely the messaging is, then the better conversion, you know, and so if you're also not seeing improvement, then I think that that's some of the first signs that you're reliant on really static data. And it's just having a completed profile isn't super helpful if you're trying to be more relevant, more timely, um, you know, create those relationships with your with your buyers and consumers.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah, I suppose in some ways, and you touched on this a little bit, I suppose HubSpot were kind of making the argument that this shared enrichment data would help to make that more relevant data, whereas obviously the critics saw it as you know an issue with consent and potentially spam. Where do you think the line between that genuinely helpful customer intelligence and potentially unnecessary data access or misuse? Where do you think, where would you put that line, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, I mean, in general, opt-in is something that all brands and companies need to hold at a very, very high standard. Um, you know, I know for me personally, like I hold a very hard line on, you know, is this opt-in? And I it it doesn't matter if it's a fuzzy opt-in of kind of like, oh, well, they engaged with this. And technically, you know, we got their opt-in information through this channel. Um, if you really put your, you know, self in the shoes of that consumer, I think brands should be holding themselves to a much higher standard of opt-in um of who they're engaging with. So in general, um, I think that that's a really, really key thing that opt-in is a very black and white thing. They are either open to your communications or not. And I think that that needs to be held really strong, which then leads into like, okay, well, you have this kind of co-op data, you're getting enrichment data from somebody else. That doesn't, they didn't necessarily opt in for you to receive that information and to receive that information, you know, that that detail. Um so it's probably not appropriate to be used in your outreach, right? Um, if you didn't collect it yourself, um, and that the the buyer is not aware that that data is being collected either. Um, and I think that this is like an interesting trend that's seen across a lot of marketing and organizations is they're so focused on the data or the database or, you know, these the open rates or, you know, the metrics, you know, whatever it is that they're trying to focus on, they kind of forget about the people on the other end, right? Their consumers and and what they want to experience and enjoy. Um, you know, and so when you talk about like, hey, what's your line? It's kind of like, well, let's talk about the human on the other end of this and what would they want. Um, and that's realistically going to tell you where your line is, which is, you know, really explicit opt-in, um, you know, making sure that your messaging is very relevant to what they're doing today, not what they did three weeks ago, you know, those types of things.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah, yeah, definitely, because I think that's part of, I don't know if it was part of the original apology or afterwards as well, actually did kind of promise this transparent opt-in and clearer customer controls moving forward. I was just wondering beyond that, you've obviously made the strong case there, the importance of opt-in. Is there anything else that these companies can do around data governance that can really help that customer trust, I guess, when it comes to sharing data?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah, I I think this, I think this then goes back to that relevance conversation, you know, is the more relevant the information is that you're sharing, I think the more likely people are to share their information, right? Because it's it's a value exchange at the end of the day. It's, hey, I will give you my information if you give me valuable information. Um, you know, so as a marketer, because I understand like how opt-ins and you know, how cookie consents and all that type of stuff goes, I'm much more likely to opt into things because I know that if they can track what I'm doing, I get better messaging from them, right? There's actual relevance there. Um, but I think what when we talk about relevance as well, this gets into a much more nuanced conversation of, okay, even if you were to collect, you know, relevant behavioral data, how quickly can you activate on it? And that becomes a whole question into your tech stack, right? Is like you can collect all the data that you want. You could actually have behavioral data that's sitting in a CDP or, you know, in a lake somewhere. But if you can't get all of that data out really, really quickly to activate on that, you know, intent data or signal real time, then it also becomes less relevant, right? So I it's kind of this like never-ending cycle of, okay, so we've enriched the data, we've got opt-in, we have complete profiles, maybe we have behavioral data, we want to send the most relevant information and really fulfill on that value exchange with the customers. And then the question is, oh, do we have the tech stack to do it? Right? Do we have the system in place that holds your um insight data, your behavioral data, your whatever that is, and your action, is it in the same system? Or are all the systems working quickly enough that you can activate on that? And that's, I think that that's kind of the follow-on to all of this is we can talk about data relevance all day long. Um, but then okay, when you actually have to activate on it, can you do it? All right. And that's kind of the next part out of this whole conversation is, you know, in kind of idea around signal debt and intent and all of that. It's great, you've collected it. Now what do you do? Um, and how quickly can you activate on it?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, yeah. That's I suppose that's exactly where I was thinking of going next. Could you maybe speak a little bit more to that, Alexi? Maybe I don't know some of the stumbling blocks maybe some organizations have, or some of the best practice you would recommend to really kind of get the most out of that uh relevant behavioral data once you do actually have it.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, absolutely. So um, you know, when you look at a at a pretty standard marketing tech stack today, um, you're gonna have a CDP likely, um, which also might be your your data lake. Um, that's probably where you have maybe some behavioral analytics holding in there. You might have a CRM, um, and then you've got your kind of uh action engine, if you will, which is uh, you know, where are you sending all of your emails and push notifications or you know, fill in the blank as to what it can be, or your you know, personalization on the website, right? All of those pieces of how do you actually take the message and push them out. Um, a pretty standard stack has all of those pieces, but they're all in different areas and they all rely on most APIs, right, to get that data out and into the new system. Um, and there's very few systems that the insight and the action live in the same space. That's not to say that some tech stacks can't do it quickly. That it's that's very possible. You know, there are some systems that the API fires really quickly and they'll be able to activate on that pretty real time. Um, but then there are, you know, uh great examples of, hey, if you're on a website, um, you know, you abandon cart, how quickly does that that fire signal? And I think all of us have experienced the we abandoned the cart yesterday and we got the email today. I've probably forgotten about why I filled the cart, you know, um, is is a is a good example um of that, right? And so uh whereas like uh that's something that at acoustic, um, you know, we're really this is one of our core things as to why, why we have the, you know, built the product that we do is we believe that those two things need to be in the same system. Um, because it's not just about can you collect the behavioral data um and can you hold it and it pull insights from it? It's can I get into the action engine as fast as possible to activate on it? Um, you know, so that's kind of it's it's this idea of a traditional tech stack and what's the next um part of that, and it's how do you get data through it as fast as possible?

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Makes uh yeah, makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Lexi. I've uh really enjoyed that chat. I think if you get a big story like that, obviously it's it's interesting and important in itself, but I find it always really helpful to dig a little bit beyond and kind of explore, like we have what it actually means in the in the wider CX space, the wider customer service space. So yeah, thank you very much for time. I think the audience is uh is gonna get a lot from this.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Amazing. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking with you.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Great stuff. I did also want to just quickly thank our audience as well for tuning in. If you enjoyed this, please do remember to like and subscribe to the channel and head on over to cxtoday.com for more stories like this. Until next time, thanks for watching.