Agile Always by Officially Fenner

"The Barbershop": Breaking Silence on Prostate Health

• Robin and Rudy Fenner

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Welcome to "The Barbershop", where real men have real conversations - uncut, unfiltered and unapologetically honest. It's the spot in our Agile Always podcast where we pull up a chair, talk life, health, and everything in-between, from the deeply personal to the universally important. 

Pat Riley once said, "You have to be an active participant in your own rescue." These words perfectly capture the urgent message at the heart of this powerful episode of Officially Fenner/Agile Alway's new "Barbershop" segment, where host Rudy brings authentic men's health conversations out of the barbershop and into the open.

Rudy, joined by his brother Greg (a prostate cancer survivor turned advocate) and son-in-law David (representing a younger perspective), this multigenerational discussion tackles the staggering reality that 80% of men who live to 80 will develop prostate cancer—with even higher rates among African American men. Yet countless men avoid the simple PSA blood test that could save their lives.

The trio explores the complex reasons behind men's reluctance to seek medical care: historical distrust of the healthcare system, the masculine tendency to "tough it out," and fears about procedures and potential sexual dysfunction. With remarkable candor, they share personal experiences that illuminate how early detection dramatically improves both outcomes and treatment options.

Family history emerges as a crucial but often overlooked factor. As Greg powerfully states, "If you have had prostate cancer and you have a son, you're putting his life at risk not telling him." The conversation moves beyond detection to treatment decisions, with insights on everything from "active surveillance" (which Greg compares to "a stick of dynamite with a fuse") to radiation therapies and surgical options.

Whether you're approaching 40 or well beyond, this conversation could literally save your life or the life of someone you love. Listen, learn, and become an active participant in your own health journey. What's your PSA number?

Thank you for spending time with us today! We hope you enjoyed our conversation, related to something we said, and learned something new along the way.

Please give us a like and subscribe to our podcast, so you don't miss ANYTHING!

Follow us @AgileAlways and be sure to check out our website, www.agilealways.com!

A special thanks goes to @yancylott for producing, editing, and creating the music for our podcasts!
xo,
Robin & Rudy


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Rudy Fenner:

Intro: W"Officially Fenner, with your hosts, Robin and Rudy, a podcast about family, where we live, love and laugh along the way.

Rudy Fenner:

All right, all right, welcome everybody to the Officially Fenner Agile Always podcast. This is gonna be weird because you are used to me chiming in behind a female voice. Robin had a crazy idea. She said you know you're dealing with an issue here that you guys talk about in the barbershop. Light bulb came on. She said you need to do a subset of an Officially Fenner podcast called "he Barbershop, and you need to get your guys in here and you need to do what you all do at the barbershop, because she's heard stories and once or twice she's dipped in and seen and heard. So this topic this morning is prostate health.

Rudy Fenner:

I remember when I was in my 30's range. I remember saying what old guys talked about and well, I guess I'm an old guy because this is one of the things we talk about. I I felt like we needed to bring some people in, because I'm not enough alone to hold this topic up, and I had somebody who was, I consider, one of like the rescue rangers on this topic. My brother, Greg Fenner is joining us and Greg has become for me, a prostate health advocate, and he has saved many of our lives and discussions and awareness and I wanted to bring him in. And I wanted to bring in my son-in-law, David Lottahall, because we don't need a time when it's just old people sitting around talking. We need some younger people who can reinvigorate our thinking and our blood and our energy, and David also has a perspective that's a little different. So welcome David, welcome Gregory.

Greg Fenner:

Thank you, good to be here. Thank you.

Rudy Fenner:

This is going to be crazy, and so this is our normal conversation. Let me just make sure you all understand this will be free-flowing. This is an incredibly organic podcast because these are conversations that we really have. We've been talking about this stuff for years, so we're just putting on on on with recording and capturing what normally goes on in our lives. We're incredibly blessed. These are incredibly, brilliant men that I live around and they help me be who I am. This was amazing because we talk, a lot of our time is spent with sports and it's so mind blowing to me.

Rudy Fenner:

I really believe that sports are like a metaphor for life and if you pay attention, there's lots of things about life you can learn, and I just heard there's a lot of activity in the NBA and I heard a quote from Pat Riley that is so appropriate to launch us today.

Rudy Fenner:

Here's one of his favorite quotes - and one of, I think (Jimmy) Haslam, said this. He said "you have to be an active participant in your own rescue and I said, dang, I get to write that down. That is so incredibly appropriate when we talk about prostate health, because that's really that's really what this is all about is just many, many people that I know unfortunately have lost their lives because, to a certain degree, they have not participated. When they decided to participate in prostate health, it was a point where it was too late. So both Greg and David, I want to just toss this to you guys and I'll call that our intro and get into this. What's wrong with us? Why do we avoid this whole doctor thing? And I don't understand men, why do we? I'm a man and at times I I am confused by our behavior when it comes to medical professionals in our own health well.

Greg Fenner:

So you can't underestimate the impact of the Tuskegee experiment, the lack of true treatment and true care that African Americans have received historically, since we didn't receive any during slavery and during segregation, we received minimal. And even in the South, where our parents are from, my mother can tell you how they got less Novocaine at the dentist than the White patients did. So these are historical impacts that carry over generations and generations. And so you know and there are stigmas associated with prostate cancer. One of the ways of diagnosing or one of the screening processes or methods is a digital rectal exam.

Greg Fenner:

Now how many men do you know are comfortable with a digital rectal exam, unless they really understand how important that is to diagnosing a nodule on your prostate and that's the only way that your physician can get to it? Now I had a funny story from our older brother. Eric was telling me that he was getting a digital rectal exam and he told his doctor "man, I really hate this part of the exam. And his doctor looked at him and said "it's no fun for me either."

Greg Fenner:

And so the door kind of swings both ways right the door kind of swings both ways right, but there are so many absolute phobias and historical things that keep Black men from being proactive about their health that I think society has figured out a way to underestimate and even sometimes we underestimate it A company I used to work for years ago. We had a drug for prostate cancer. Full disclosure I'm in pharmaceutical sales. I've been for 35 years now.

Rudy Fenner:

I should have said that in the intro. My apologies.

Greg Fenner:

But we had a drug for prostate cancer years ago and we would support these prostate cancer screenings, particularly in the black neighborhoods, because the prevalence was so high, and we would have a surprising number of members of the community African-American community show up and you would be amazed at how many of those screenings came back positive for prostate cancer from men who had never had not only a PSA but had never had a digital rectal exam. So early detection I know we'll get to this, but early detection is the key. Not only does it improve your potential outcomes, but it also improves your options for therapy.

Rudy Fenner:

So let me jump in because, David, I want you to talk about the same thing, but let me just jump in and say this - I was stunned and one of the things that was an energy behind this conversation was that the rates and the percentages of men of all races, of all places being subjected to prostate issues was extraordinary and the most stunning statistic - and then a stunning fact. One of the most stunning statistics I saw was that 80 percent of men and this was from the University of North Carolina medical community - 80 percent of men who live to be 80 years old, will have prostate cancer. That almost knocked me out of my chair and I've talked to people and I've talked to people who are not Black and I am stunned at the 40 and 50 year-o lds that I know who have not ever had their PSA checked. And I was just - I was mortified because I realized this is scary.

Rudy Fenner:

David, you deal with with a younger community of men than I am. I work around younger people, but that's not really the crew I hang out with. What is the whole thing with doctors, exams, checkups and PSA exams. Where are you, guys?

David Lottahall:

I think that our age group is either going to be informed or not, and that's due to, you know, our parents being either later getting informed or not being, I think, like Uncle Greg said, having the access, the knowledge, the history that we've had as a culture. But I think, just beyond just culture-based, I think, as a man, you're taught to just tough it up. You roll your ankle playing at the playground, you play through it, you play in a sport, you play through it, right? Unless you physically can't. So, unless it's keeping me from doing my day-to-day function, this is just part of life and I deal with that.

David Lottahall:

And so being able to be vulnerable, to go get checked up and have some of the proactive procedures done, the screenings done, requires you to have a great deal of vulnerability. You know you're going in and saying, hey, I'm going to sign up for this process, this procedure that I don't like, and I have to be good with the results. I'd rather not find out and just deal with it later. I live my life as best as I can without knowing, and then they tell me it's terminal, it's terminally ill and it's too late. I've done all that I wanted to do, right?

Rudy Fenner:

Wow.

Greg Fenner:

Let me take it a step further for you. I know people who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer and it turns out when they talk to their father, he was actually diagnosed with prostate cancer and treated years ago, but he never shared the story. Al right, so that is possibly the worst possible scenario. So Greg Jr., my son, has been like every step of the way. He knows everything, and so when he turns 40, the normal age for beginning PSA lab values is 50. But because he has not only a father but an uncle, I have two cousins who were treated for prostate cancer. This is an incredibly familial disorder, right?

Rudy Fenner:

So that 80% number for us is on the money.

Greg Fenner:

It's absolutely on the money. It could even be higher. For him it's even higher right. So the fact that the other friend of mine didn't know it was just pure coincidence that he was on top of his health and got an early diagnosis. He was treated with CyberKnife and he's now in complete remission. But think about if he was also a laggard who wasn't proactive with his health care and his father didn't tell him that he had had prostate cancer. All of a sudden he's at stage four diagnosis, which another friend of mine did find out late at stage four and had to have a radical prostatectomy and radiation following up. And seven years later he's he's in full remission. But it didn't have to come to that.

Rudy Fenner:

Right, right right.

Greg Fenner:

I mean what he is really regretful and disappointed about is that he didn't get the early detection. He didn't have the options, so it's almost like a guilt that I carry when I talk to him about it, because I got diagnosed early, got treated early, minimally invasive. I mean when I tell you that radiation seed implant brachytherapy is minimally invasive, it is incredibly minimally invasive as opposed to radical. Prostatectomy is a major surgery. I mean a major surgery and a long recovery period. So I just want to throw that in if you are someone who has had prostate cancer and you have a son, you are putting his life at risk not telling him about your clinical history.

Rudy Fenner:

This is really good.

Greg Fenner:

You're putting him at risk, but the private nature of prostate cancer is such that most in the early days, when you got a radical prostate cancer, prostate, or even if you were treated, in most cases you came out your libido, you lost your libido, you had sexual dysfunction, erectile dysfunction, and so that's the personal side that nobody wants anybody to know, that there's even a possibility that I suffer from erectile dysfunction.

Rudy Fenner:

In fact, Greg, and I'm not trying to my point with all of this isn't to scare anybody to death, but I want to make sure that people understand this now, and you can help me with this as well. When we talk about the radical surgery and I don't even say the word right, so I'll leave that to you, because you say it nice and smooth I've talked to doctors and my feeling is that many of them go into that surgery knowing that it is highly unlikely that they're going to put you back together completely. They know it. I'm just saying that's my interpretation of some conversations I've had. Which encourages the early detection, is what I'm saying.

Greg Fenner:

Yeah, but they have to step to that side. Now there's a nerve-sparing surgery that they do. Okay, and in most cases sexual function is restored.

Greg Fenner:

What is that called?

Greg Fenner:

So it's basically it was the first people to do it that really perfected it were the surgeons at Johns Hopkins. The surgeons at Johns Hopkins, and it's basically nerve sparing where they were able to remove a prostate, do a radical prostatectomy and spare the nerves that are responsible for sexual function.

Rudy Fenner:

:

Greg Fenner:

That I did not know.

Greg Fenner:

Greg Fenner, Guest:

Greg Fenner:

Many other many other surgeons can do it now, but they were the ones from what I remember, from what I recall, but they were the ones from what I remember. From what I recall, and when I was in that arena back in the late 80s, early 90s, they were the first ones who were able to actually do that. So does

Greg Fenner:

Rudy Fenner, Host: procedure have

Greg Fenner:

So does name? Well, it's just called

Greg Fenner:

Greg Fenner, Guest: nerve sparing

Greg Fenner:

Well, prostate, okay, okay and so..

Greg Fenner:

Greg Fenner, Guest: the personal

Greg Fenner:

But the of a prideful man about anybody knowing like maybe feels like maybe someone would feel like that makes them less than a man to have reduced sexual dysfunction. That's another myth that you know that's unfortunate.

Rudy Fenner:

Look, David, I want to ask you a question, but let me just tell you this. So that's unfortunate. David, I want to ask you a question, but let me just tell you this so I am, my life is so incredibly wonderfully filled with God and he deals with all of my issues at the door. So you're talking about pride. I had a problem. My PSA went up and once my PSA was checked, my primary Dr. Smarth said "oh, you need to go have this checked, let's escalate this up. So I went to a I think it was a urologist. So I go to the urologist and I walk in and my wife goes with me everywhere. I go right, we just hang out like that. That's not for everybody and I wouldn't say it's for everybody. I would suggest to most men to take that with some care and concern. Everybody can't handle it. My wife is a pretty fascinating human. We go into this guy and he wants to do the exam. Now my wife is right there. He's like drop him, let's go.

Rudy Fenner:

And I look at her and say, well, you said you're in, you're in, and now right out of the gate, right out of the gate, right out of the gate she's watching me get this exam, and I'm kind of like I've reached the point now, because my wife has been through cancer with me and she's seen me at 120 and some change. It can't get any worse. She's seen the worst in all of the mess. So we went on to do it, and so it was great, though, Greg, because what you're saying is so true, because the little tiny slice of pride that I had left, that toilet flushed and that baby was gone and I was really free in everything that happened. And so, since I've had moments where I realize what you're saying because there's people examining you, there's people looking at you in ways and places that have never happened during some of these processes and procedures, that if you have a problem with this, you're going to have a problem.

David Lottahall:

So you just identified one of the biggest obstacles, to care and look, we're believers. We know that pride comes before the fall, and so you really have to make yourself completely vulnerable in ways that you probably never imagined before I've never thought about that one. You gotta keep your eyes focused on the, the end game. What's the end game? Now you can be prideful, keep your boxes on and don't get your exam. And, and you know and die and young and leave a good corpse is what the nuts used to say.

David Lottahall:

Live fast, die young and leave a good corpse.

David Lottahall:

David

David Lottahall:

Lottahall

Greg Fenner:

Guest:

Greg Fenner:

I don't any, at least in the terms of health. We'll focus on that. I don't think anything that produces the right result is going to be easy and there's not going to be something there. You're not going to have to give give up or relinquish. That means vulnerability, for your sanity, to knowing that I've done what I needed to do. I've got my pre-screenings, I made myself aware, educated myself, found someone to educate me, right, cause if you don't know, if you don't know how to read, you can find somebody to read it for you, right? So, finding, information that's available for us, um, into that so that you can do put your best foot forward, uh, it's not going to be easy, right, it's not going to be easy getting treatment, yep, not going to be easy. If you get treatment and it's unsuccessful, yeah, but at the very least, this, - want you to go to heaven, but we want you to stay here as long as you can.

Rudy Fenner:

So, David, let me ask you this. So here's my challenge and maybe Greg's challenge, and maybe men of our age range, in our 50s, 60s and on, that is so troubling to me. I want to pause. How do I - now I have people that I work around that because of our comfort level and we are almost like family, whether we want to be or not. So I can go into some tough conversations and I've had conversations with those guys. But I'm around younger people all the time and that is a troubling thing to hear you say and to think about the guys that don't know and who are not informed and do not have the dads and do not have the uncles and do not have the people. What can we do to help motivate them to engage on this? Prostate health is one thing. It just in general exams and blood pressure and the general A-1 season, the things that you need to be tracking and taking care of. What can we do to encourage that behavior?

David Lottahall:

I think it starts with the little conversations. I think that you know sharing, sharing with the next person so that they share with the next person. Is kind of like the good news.

David Lottahall:

You know, you're gonna hear about people having prostate cancer and you also feel like it's far removed from you as a possibility, unless you've seen a family history of it. Yeah, you're gonna have a heightened awareness of it. But if it hasn't really reached your family immediately like uncles, parents, siblings. If it hasn't really reached your family immediately like uncles, parents, you know siblings if it hasn't reached you in that way, you may think that that's not something that could happen to me. Yeah, so you don't feel the urge to make yourself aware or to be informed fully about the possibility of it.

Rudy Fenner:

Yeah, because I'll say that Greg, he doesn't even know what he did, but I remember I was going through salivary gland cancer and I'm going through all of the radical stuff that we had to do for that the surgery and the chemo and the radiation and all of that. And Greg, in these odd moments, would say something that connected back to prostate cancer, and I think I was a little delusional in that I'm thinking that the salivary gland cancer treatment and all of that is covering. It's like I felt like I had a credit card that covered all of my expenses, right, and it's kind of like you kept saying something and I kept saying you know what? I need to get back on this PSA thing, because I may have been distracted and I think in my case I got lucky because my Dr. Smarth is saying, well, you still need to come in for a physical. I'm like, oh wait, that's right. So I'm getting a blood test and I'm getting all other stuff, but the rest of my body is still going on.

Greg Fenner:

And we got to keep up with that as well. Yeah, so in 2008 I was treated for squamous cell skin cancer. Now you have three levels of basal cell, squamous cell and melanoma. Squamous cell is mid-level. This is the same, I believe, uh form of cancer that Ron had.

Rudy Fenner:

That sounded familiar. Yes, I believe you're right.

Greg Fenner:

Now our father had lung cancer, squamous cell lung cancer. So I knew, I just have a belief right that once your body gets exposed to cancer, I just don't think it can get eradicated completely. So whether it's traveling, whether there are other cells that migrate and pop up somewhere I don't have any scientific proof of that, but I always knew that I had to stay on top of all those biomarkers that are early predictors of cancer cells, and that's one of. PSA is the most concentrated, that's the highest biomarker you can use to diagnose prostate cancer. That's the first thing you see is an elevated PSA. Now, riding a bicycle trauma. There are things that can elevate your PSA, which is why if you have an elevated PSA, they don't react right away. They bring you back in for several more to follow up. They make sure that what they think they are seeing is what they're actually seeing.

Rudy Fenner:

It's really a moment, not a movement. Okay, I got you.

Greg Fenner:

And so you know for me, I just think that you know. If you've ever been exposed to cancer in any way, I think that, just for me personally, that should increase your awareness around getting an annual PSA, especially if you're a black man.

Greg Fenner:

Our incidences are so much higher than everyone else

Greg Fenner:

Rudy Fenner Host:and maybe

Greg Fenner:

Maybe encourage lifestyle changes in support of that Absolutely...

Greg Fenner:

I think it's very clear that diet, exercise, weight plays a factor in everything but diet, processed foods, red meat. Even after you're treated for prostate cancer, they actually recommend that you stay away from processed meats, ham, prosciutto and all those things, because the preservatives in them have a way of stimulating cancer, so they advise that you stay away from those. But it's just so important for men who have had prostate cancer to be vocal about it and not hide it.

Greg Fenner:

People are interesting when it comes to their health. Some people are really private, most folks. If you read the newspaper now, anybody who passes away, there's never a cause of death. Nobody lists cause of death anymore. I don't know why, but especially again, something as personal as prostate cancer.

Greg Fenner:

Men are extremely reluctant to talk about it because you can extrapolate it to oh well, if he had prostate cancer he may have had, if he had surgery, he had a radical prostatectomy, but he doesn't have any sexual dysfunction anymore. So people make these leaps and that's just not true. That's a myth, that is a that is an absolute myth, and so that men shouldn't let that stop them from talking about prostate cancer if they've been diagnosed and treated, because other folks need to hear, that news. I have a brother-in-law who, after I got prostate, after I was diagnosed and treated we talked about it a couple of times he went and got a PSA and turns out he was diagnosed with prostate cancer and treated by a radiation oncologist who trained with the same radiation oncologist who treated me. They trained together because I was on it was during the pandemic I couldn't go to the doctor with him but we did a FaceTime call and I was actually on the call with him,

Greg Fenner:

"So what's your question? Let me ask what do you do? Well, I'm not a surgeon, I'm not a physician, I'm not any of that. And I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either.

Greg Fenner:

But, I recently was treated for prostate cancer and he said, "oh really. And we talked and he said well, Klein, he said you're kidding. I trained with him and my brother-in-law is doing extremely well right now. His PSA is down in the safe margins. But that's early detection, early treatment, early diagnosis. Early treatment because we talk, because we communicate. And I didn't go over there saying, oh, nothing's wrong with me, Don't look at me, I'm fine, I'm healthy, I'm good. Oh, no, no, no the rumors of my treatment are greatly exaggerated.

Rudy Fenner:

That is not true.

David Lottahall:

I'm fine.

Rudy Fenner:

No, we talked about it a lot. So, okay, you know what I got so excited? That was a printer that just went off. Okay, I can live with that. So let's take a step back because we got so far into that. Let me take a step back because we're talking about prostate cancer. But let's talk about the prostate because I don't think, until I was introduced to it, I didn't think about my prostate. I didn't think about it any more than I think about my pinky toe. It just didn't cross my mind. So, what it actually does and then talk about some of the issues that we might want to look at. In the notes I had were it produces fluid that nourishes and protects sperm, helps push semen out during ejaculation, regulates urine flow, and I think those are the things that begin to, when disrupted or interrupted, begin to be little signals that something is kind of going sideways. Greg, in terms of what it actually does. Did you have anything beyond that before?

David Lottahall:

we talk about issues. No.

Rudy Fenner:

Okay, so that's kind of in a nutshell what the purpose is, and then talk about process issues, and I had enlarged urinating frequency, prostatitis and then prostate cancer, in terms of issues. Let's talk about those issues a little bit. So you talked about prostate cancer and then the prostatitis infection versus inflammation. Are you at all familiar with that?

Greg Fenner:

Yeah, so most African Americans have enlarged prostates, which leads to frequent urination because it pushes on the bladder. When you get treated for prostate cancer one of the things that they are concerned about due to the proximity of the prostate gland with the rectum and other organs, the concern is that with radiation - that radiation is a powerful therapy, and especially the beam radiation that they use now the CyberKnife and the SBRT - they can torch an organ. My understanding from my oncologist is these therapies are good, but they better be in the hands of an expert because they are very powerful and if it's off just one little bit, it can be really damaging to other organs, and so it's really important to get not only the best care but multiple treatments, multiple opinions and really understand who you're dealing with. No indictment, but you don't want the guy that was, you know, in the bottom third of his class, .

Rudy Fenner:

Yeah. David, that guy with the bad eye. I ain't trying to be funny, but that's for real, that's for real.

Greg Fenner:

No shade, no judgment, you know, but you have to be your own advocate and you've got to advocate for yourself.

Greg Fenner:

I can you know a funny story. When I was first diagnosed, I had a couple of second opinions and a couple of different docs that I talked to, and actually the first urologist that I talked to, when he saw my chart and saw my radiology report, he said okay, well, we can get you in for surgery. I Brachytherapy: hoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on, we're just getting started here. He said well, I said there are a lot of other therapies. There's there's cyber knife, there's you know, there's a lot of different treatments. I want to make sure I understand all of of them. He said "you said well, we only do surgery here.

Greg Fenner:

Well, so most urologists are trained surgeons right, so you know, my first thought was okay, right.

Greg Fenner:

So you know, my first thought was OK, if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail. And so Cheryl was with me, you know, my wife was with me, and I said, well, that's going to do it for us. And so I left I mean there's no explanation needed and he was OK with that. He said "because all we do is surgery, we don't do radiation. Even if you're stage t2b, even if you are low, moderate, you know risk, even if you're, you know, even if your PSA was just over four, it doesn't matter, we operate, we remove prostates here. That's what we do.

Greg Fenner:

"Prostate prostatectomy is our business, all right. And so that's. That wasn't the doctor for me. So I went for a consult at University of Maryland with this doctor who was the foremost expert on radiation therapy for prostate cancer in the region. As a matter of fact, even some of the Hopkins physicians refer patients to him because he was one of the first to do. There's another form of radiation that's really powerful and actually I'll think of it in a minute, but he was one of the first to do that. He showed me all of his equipment.

Greg Fenner:

I did a tour of his facility and he was a physician who actually trained Dr. Kanani, who treated me at the Schar Cancer Center. Okay right and so, without understanding and and going to these different consults and understanding how, it's treated, where you're diagnosed, because everybody's diagnosis, everybody's physiology is different, your diagnosis .

Greg Fenner:

Maybe you say yeah, but your body's different so you need to hear for yourself what the best treatment for you is. And so we ended up. I ended up back at the Schar Cancer Center and I knew I was in the right place, but only because I went on two other consults, saw facilities, talked about my disease and how to be treated. And that's the other good thing about early diagnosis - you got time. You have time If you get diagnosed and it's so bad that they got to rush you into surgery right now. That's what happened to a friend of mine. He was diagnosed because he was Gleason's score of 9, which only goes up to 10. He was a 9. He was stage 4. to 10, he was a nine. His was stage four and when they do a biopsy, they break your prostate up into 15 sectors.

Greg Fenner:

Okay, three sectors had traces of cancer cells in mine. 15 out of 15 of his sectors had prostate cancer and cancer cells. So you don't have any option. This has got to go, and what we hope is that it's not spread to your pelvic wall or any other organs.

Greg Fenner:

But they don't know that until they do until they get in and open you up and get your prostate out and do the heat map, you know the different things that they do. They don't even know, right? And so that's just reason 17B why early detection, an annual PSA is a good thing to do.

Rudy Fenner:

So let me ask you this. So, David, I'm curious, and this is a kind of weird question, but I thought about it have you ever had people that you work around, or friends that have gone down this road, that have shared this?

David Lottahall:

No, the only person I literally have talked to I'll say probably two people would be, Jeremy, and then my dad wow, he hasn't, you know thank God he hasn't had any signs or the need for early detection or anything like that. But as far as health and what you do for preventative measures, he's told me the things that you can take those types of things to look for, and he stressed the importance of educating and reading and finding out as much as you can about it.

Rudy Fenner:

So let me ask you this too. So I'm in my 60s, how old are you? 40.

David Lottahall:

40, okay, that was the rumor I'd heard. 41 in May.

Rudy Fenner:

So let me ask you this have you had conversations with your doctors and your medical community about this?

David Lottahall:

I have. I've also talked about colonoscopies and things of that nature Unfortunately, a lot of they won't move on a lot because it's an insurance-based thing. Really, yeah, because of my age I'm not necessarily at an age they won't move on a lot because it's an insurance based thing. And so really yeah, because because of my age I'm not necessarily at an age.

Rudy Fenner:

So what's the right age?

David Lottahall:

I think it's like 45. I want to say it's like 45 when insurance will start to cover some of the well, that's the key word, right?

David Lottahall:

So that's word. Insurance coverage right? And so you know a lot of these things. Insurance starts to cover it because of what the data says, which is crazy.

Greg Fenner:

But, I will tell you, most of the literature does say when you have somebody who's diagnosed with prostate cancer earlier than 40, that's rare. Which which brings me to the next point. This is why you got to know your family history, right, got to know your family history, got to know your family history. I would bet it's very rare to find someone with prostate cancer under 50 who doesn't have a history of prostate cancer in their family. So we have a cousin whose father had prostate cancer and he was just diagnosed and treated at the age of 52. He had a radical prostatectomy and he's doing fine, but his father also had prostate cancer. So I don't like to scare my son, but he does get a little agitated when we talk about this, because I tell him your incidence, your probability, your chances are high. Let's just call it what it is they're high.

David Lottahall:

But

Greg Fenner:

I think you're more probable to being approved.

Rudy Fenner:

You mean father-son? Yes, well, right, true.

Greg Fenner:

If it's close to you, that actually works in your favor to get to start your procedures, your screenings, early.

Greg Fenner:

Well, think about Chadwick Boseman. How young was he when he died of colorectal cancer? That man wasn't even 40 yet. So now my guess is that he probably had some digestive cancer somewhere in his family. I don't know that, I don't know anything about his family, but it's a horrible event. And who knows, even if they could have caught it at 33, but that's incredibly young. But all this stuff ties back to family history, so it's really important to know your family history.

Greg Fenner:

So so Sorry, he was a lot older than that, he was 43.

Rudy Fenner:

Still, still young. So I guess the thing to be mindful of is you're saying you got to know your family, you got to know what your history is. You got to be responding and connecting to that. You also, I think from what I had when I was being treated for my salivary gland cancer I was on two occasions, things as simple as some of the screenings. What is it the test that you get after your treatment? CAT scan? Keep on going.

Rudy Fenner:

The top one.

Rudy Fenner:

I can't believe I just lost my words, but there were basic things that should be done. That insurance initially rejected a PTI, a PTI, a PTI. Oh my gosh, what is it that? I was going into? Getting to inject fluid in me and it took 45 minutes for the fluid to take and then it was a whole oh my, a PET scan, a PET scan. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Greg Fenner:

You brought me here to talk about prostate cancer You're giving me math.

Rudy Fenner:

But after receiving chemotherapy and radiation, the insurance company rejected the PET scan. And we had to advocate and get our conversation right and go back and they immediately said okay, but I was shocked that that would be rejected. And so I'm saying with some of these things, just like you're saying, the insurance coverage says no, but I need to get my history together, document that, submit that to my insurance company and say okay, for this reason we need to override that decision.

David Lottahall:

The other thing that goes along with that. I saw a video this was a couple of years ago, I think actually closer to the pandemic now and it was a lady. It was an African-American lady, young, probably my age, and she went to an eye doctor. They did a procedure where they put you in front of a machine. They look there's a lot of health...

Rudy Fenner:

I have that done. Yes, I've had that done. You can tell by the body.

David Lottahall:

And they looked at her and they said you need to go get screened based upon what we're seeing. You need to go get screened based upon what we're seeing. And she went and got screened and found out that she had early I think she had colon cancer early signs of it.

David Lottahall:

That's crazy, and so the thing is, through your eyes, right. So the other thing that I also saw after that was someone talking about when you get your tax return right, even if you're saving your money or you're taking care of things that you needed to take care of, maybe use that money to get some of these screenings that you don't have access to because of insurance coverage.

Rudy Fenner:

The other day I got - because I'm a regular customer with one of the local labs that does the blood test. They talked about colon cancer, the screenings that are now advancing with blood tests, and they're actually sending me ads. Hey, you know, you can get your colon cancer checked with this blood test that you're getting ready to have, and so there's a number of options that are available.

Greg Fenner:

And you're right, sometimes, instead of buying your Porsche with your bonus, you might want to consider different tests that are blood tests and things that help you understand where you are and where your health is. Well so that's another really excellent point, cause I watched Good Morning America every day religiously and the doctor that was on there was talking about all the new screenings for colorectal cancer, for colon cancer and all digestive forms of cancer, and he was saying that the colonoscopy is no longer the preeminent screen for colon cancer, for digestive cancers. This is is another reason why you have to really advocate for yourself, ask the right questions and stay up on your own.

Greg Fenner:

If you have a history, like my wife Cheryl, her mother died of stomach cancer, so there's a history of digestive disease and digestive cancer in her family, so she's constantly talking to her gastroenterologist about those different things and she goes for screening every three years. But that's how you stay on top of it. And why is it, we always know, we always see or we see a lot that our White counterparts, their survival rates and their diagnosis rates are better, their diagnosis rates are higher, and their treatments are more successful than they are in the African-American community, and it's mostly because of access to care, education and advocacy. You know we can really learn from our entire society, about how important it is to advocate for yourself to be educated to understand your family history.

Greg Fenner:

I mean, we've talked about family history a lot today and that's something that gets overlooked. A lot of these insurance companies are denying things because they don't know, because it's not in your chart that you have a family history of this. So when you educate them about that?

Greg Fenner:

They will fall like a lawn chair. They don't want to be in that legal checkbook.

Greg Fenner:

I was just going to say it's crazy, because when they ask you to go to get truck ups, it doesn't matter where you go. And they said do you have this in your family? I'm like I got all of them, everything, grandparents.

Rudy Fenner:

Can I tell you that until a few years ago, after our father, like Greg said earlier, passed away, he had a heart attack but he was being treated for lung cancer when the heart attack occurred, passed away. He had a heart attack but he was being treated for lung cancer when the heart attack occurred. There are actually documents that I have completed that I'm going to confess to the world today that they said is there a history of cancer? And I said no. I said "you idiot".

David Lottahall:

That was the wrong answer.

Rudy Fenner:

You got one person in your family that hasn't had cancer.

David Lottahall:

My mother was a breast cancer survivor. Yeah, mother was a breast cancer.

Rudy Fenner:

Her father was a - it's cancer everywhere you look, and so I'm gonna free everybody who's listening. Why, David, I can't tell you why?

Greg Fenner:

That's a good question, because if it's convenience, no question If it's convenience.

Rudy Fenner:

I don't even know what I was thinking. It's just like I don't know what happened one day, because I'm not a, I'm not an incredibly... Lord knows, I'm not a private person. I don't.... I'm not a person who lies, I'm not a deceiving person. So I know what my name, I know me, I don't. I wasn't doing it for that reason, but for some reason the light bulb just didn't come on and then I realized, oh my gosh, you need to emphatically say yes, yes, yes, and list what everything is. And that changes, the whole dynamic and the outcome of all of these conversations.

David Lottahall:

Yeah, and a really good physician and an assessment of your health can look at your family history and prescribe the proper blood work, the proper analysis. You know a really good physician can do that, so they really do need to know.

Rudy Fenner:

Wow, okay. So, man, I'm getting caught in my own head here because you all are saying stuff that's just launching me into all kinds of thoughts. The thing I had next was what happens if you're diagnosed, and I want to stop for a second and I want to add a little input to that. Cause, Greg, you've said some things that are just absolute fire to me. So first, I didn't know. You said - talking about urologists - that they're all trained surgeons.

Rudy Fenner:

Yes, okay, let me stop, and I need to apologize for all of the urologists that I talked to that I thought had lost their minds, because I'm talking to a urologist who tells me, after my Decipher test, which is an incredibly detailed test incredible that takes your samples from your prostate, analyze it, analyzes it to this incredible degree in terms of the, the risk levels, what needs to be done is a roadmap to what needs to happen next. And that's a scary thing too, because I've talked to men that don't know what a PSA is and I've helped them with that. But I've had people who have been through the entire prostate health, from surgeries to everything, and many of them have never heard of a Decipher test, which is frightening to me.

David Lottahall:

Well, so I'm going to guess that, first of all, that's an oncology tool. A decipher test is an oncology tool if you're only being treated by a urologist.

David Lottahall:

He only knows what he knows, and with all the things that they have to do from a urological perspective and learning and keeping up to date.

David Lottahall:

There's no way most of them don't have time to delve into the world of oncology. So that's why I've advocated to most of the people that I know if you get diagnosed with prostate cancer, it's not enough to see just a urologist. You need to see an oncologist as well, because cancer is what they do, and the general oncologist, hematologist that I go to that has treated my entire family the one that I go to is so good that he knows my family history. I don't have to tell him my family history. I was just with him last Thursday. I went with him on Thursday and we talk about so much with regard to diagnosis and treatment. But to Decipher, I'm going to go back to that. That is the most comprehensive document on your health, on my health, that I've ever seen. I mean, it broke my cancer down to the nth degree and if you only go to a urologist, you'll never know that that kind of analysis of your health even exists.

Rudy Fenner:

So let me go back to when I was diagnosed. The guy had now interesting enough, he was a urologist who bought in the Decipher. But when he bought it back, what kind of weirded me out was I was low risk. I mean really no low number like a .3 or whatever. I don't remember the number. I think that's sort of what it was.

David Lottahall:

He said and it's color-coded, by the way.

Rudy Fenner:

Right, right, right. It's even color-coded. If you can't read or count. You know what red, yellow and green, you know what that means. Yeah, so he says, and he was orienting himself towards surgery or active surveillance.

David Lottahall:

Now he saw the risk.

Rudy Fenner:

I said wait, we're at .3, and you want to cut stuff out. I'm not sure if I'm following, if it's a low risk. But that goes back to what you said, that I didn't know, for the man that only has a hammer, everything is a nail, so we're going to cut it out.

Rudy Fenner:

And I said, well, let me ask you about seed and other radiation. And he said, well, yeah, you can consider that option. Now here's where my gift is. I don't have a lot of things, but I can read people like nobody's business and I could have swore. When I said that his posture changed to a I'm getting ready to leave position and I said wait, wait, wait, wait. I think I'm getting ready to get dismissed. And I realized he started like a little kid in elementary school. He started to gather his things because it was time to go and I realized, oh, wait.... you don't offer that.

Greg Fenner:

So, in deference to urologists, so I will offer this. They most of them are that I've encountered anyway are really good surgeons and they're really good at what they do and they have, you know, good outcomes. They have really good outcomes with their surgeons and the ones that do, and they have, you know, good outcomes. They have really good outcomes with their, with their surges and the ones that do it so much they they really they know what the margins and they're really good at that. Now, no shade, no indictment. They are healthcare professionals, but they're also business people. There's a business to run and in this healthcare environment where reimbursements are getting smaller by the day, or the work that a physician does on a daily basis, whether it's office visit, procedures, whatever. So a business person can't afford to spend too much time on a customer who's not buying anything right.

Rudy Fenner:

I mean, that's not an indictment. The dude was putting me out, Greg, so this is great, that door started closing. I'm not sure if it was personal. I didn't know, but I knew what his body was doing right and I said, oh, this brother's getting ready to roll out.

David Lottahall:

Now I know what he was thinking.

Rudy Fenner:

I don't know where his body was doing right and I said, oh, this brother's getting ready to roll out Now.

David Lottahall:

I don't know what he was thinking. I don't know where his head was at. He's done with me but. I can tell you that running a medical practice is complicated. This is good, yeah, see.

Rudy Fenner:

And we're the patient. We're not really thinking about what you just said, Greg. That is like we got to remember the environment that we're in. So wait, let me go back, because I want to make sure I catch this. So when I look at the treatment options, I want to go back and I'm going to go back and I'm going to read it again. Pat Riley said "you have to be an active participant in your own rescue and I'm telling you when I go back and think about that I really had to do. I was fortunate because you had talked to me so much about this. I knew the options that were there and I was incredibly fortunate that my guy, dr, dr rao, down at gw had done my radiation for my first surgery diagnosis. I'm talking to him as a follow-up to the first treatment and he says, oh, and he's so incredibly humble, that's why I love this dude.

Rudy Fenner:

He says, "well, that's kind of like my field of specialization, prostate cancer. Oh, wait, wait, wait, hold it, tell me more and he starts to tell me, and he immediately begins to pick up where your conversations ended and goes to other levels in terms of other options that we can consider.

Rudy Fenner:

But definitely, active surveillance toss that out, because we're not going to be active. And here's what I wanted to mention with that. Active surveillance was fascinating because the statistics said that where my prostate cancer was, it was low risk and most likely not need anything. He said okay, let me just break this down for you. He said for the first five years I can almost promise you you're not going to need anything. Each five-year increment that you add on, the percentage that you might need some work goes up, he said, and if you live to be 80 or 90, it is highly unlikely that you won't need anything. So now my thing was this should I have radiation treatment now, where I'm running a 5k every week, or should I wait until I'm in my 70s or my 80s and my body is weaker and then have radiation and have things done?

Greg Fenner:

So let me give you my perspective on active surveillance. First of all, the Decipher report actually says for five years are you scot-free? You don't have a care in the world. But if you look at that Decipher report, the further you go down, your likelihood of disease progression gets higher and higher. Now, if you're 85 years old and you get diagnosed with prostate cancer, active surveillance may be a good idea, especially if you get diagnosed in an early stage at 85 years old. Yeah, it's more likely you're going to die from getting hit by a bus or a heart attack than you are from prostate cancer. But if you're 55 or 60 or 65, active surveillance to me is the equivalent of a stick of dynamite and a fuse. Like the fuse, and it just depends on how long that fuse is. You know, because it's it's going to blow up.

Rudy Fenner:

It really doesn't matter. I'll tell you it's going to blow up and that's. That's a good analogy.

David Lottahall:

Let's just sit here and watch.

Rudy Fenner:

When he mentioned active surveillance.

David Lottahall:

To me I almost said have you lost your complete mind? I'm not actively surveilling anything.

Rudy Fenner:

I was shocked. That's not even an option for me.

David Lottahall:

I was 60 years old when I was diagnosed. At 60 years old active surveillance I don't care how early in my stage. Well, actually the first urology when my PSA was elevated, he said well, we can do a couple of things you can do. You know, this is your second time in and it's 4.3. And it wasn't even that high. But now this is really key - 4.0 or lower is normal PSA. But if your PSA increases more than one point over the course of a year, that warrants further investigation.

Rudy Fenner:

There you go. That's a good marker.

David Lottahall:

So, even if it goes, my PSA went from 2.9 to 4.2. And when I first got that blood work and I went to the urologist, he said, well, 4.2, that's not high. I said no, you don't understand. It went more than one point. And he said, yeah, that's true. I'm like okay.

Greg Fenner:

May not be dealing with a class valedictorian here.

David Lottahall:

If I'm telling you this.

Greg Fenner:

Oh my gosh, so he said well, we can do a couple things.

Greg Fenner:

We can do active surveillance or we can do a biopsy. I said, oh, we're doing a biopsy. W e're doing a biopsy, and when can you get me in? So he said, okay, okay, okay. So we did that and he caught on. I will never forget. This is god is my witness. He called me on the morning of November 1st 2019.

Greg Fenner:

The morning of November 1st, I was working with one of my reps and I took I stepped outside and took the call. He said hey, uh Greg. Yeah, this is Dr. X. Yeah, it turns out you do have prostate cancer. I was like I knew that. Why do you think I said I'm getting a biopsy? I knew in my soul. It was like fire shut up in my bones. I knew it and I didn't need it. All the biopsy did was confirm what I already knew. "Turns out you were right. I'm like imagine that I said so. That was when I went to meet one of his partners and you know they only had uh surgery as an option, and so I booked. Obviously, I was out of there, but I'm just telling this is that's another example of how you have to advocate for yourself. I mean, it's like I'm not doing any active surveillance, I'm not lighting interviews and watching like Wile E Coyote or Sticky Dynamite blow up in my face. No, we're not doing that, bro.

Rudy Fenner:

Yeah, and so you had the what's the procedure you had.

David Lottahall:

I had a brachytherapy radiation seed implant right and so I.

Rudy Fenner:

I was diagnosed early, early stage active surveillance. No, what do we need to do? We looked at the brachytherapy for my body, my anatomy, it's so strikes to what you said my anatomy. My doctor said I can do that but I'm not as confident with the 100% accuracy and where your organs are placed. I would rather do SBRT and I'm sorry I can't remember what that stands for. I had that's an acronym.

Greg Fenner:

Stereostatic beam radiation therapy.

Rudy Fenner:

I was not going to remember that. So thank you. So yeah, so we were going to do that. So I've already gone in. We've had the gold rods in place. I told Robin I'm a value now because I have gold inside of my body that's going to remain here through the duration. Don't nobody be digging up my remains trying to get all the gold bits out.

Rudy Fenner:

I'm not playing that, I don't mess around like that and if I'm cremated, make sure that they don't take it the little pieces out from the dust and sift those through. That is not nice, but I've had the... what is it? The other thing was the space ore placed in. So those are gel inserts that they add to separate your organs to ensure that the radiation does not affect or it reduces dramatically reduces the potential for side effects from radiation treatment. So I've had those things done and I will tell you I said that because you said a key word. So you have the PSA, a scan of some sort, maybe an MRI, a biopsy and I will tell you, of the radiation, of the preparation of everything....

Rudy Fenner:

Clearly, to me the biopsy was the most dramatic and whoa, what are you doing? Part of the whole process. Everything else was absolutely painless. I'm saying this to anybody that might have to go through this. I experienced very little discomfort from anything. The biopsy was like put me to sleep and when I wake up, it's kind of like a lot of stuff just happened here. I need a nap up. It's kind of like a lot of stuff just happened here. Uh, I need a nap, but it was actually. I've been amazed that, based on my first cancer experiences, this has really been small potatoes. To tell you the truth, I'm not I'm not saying that for anybody who has experienced none of this. My reference points are different but I was surprised at how, like I said, the biopsy was the biggest thing for me and, uh, so a couple of things.

Greg Fenner:

The biopsy was the biggest thing for me. So a couple of things. Biopsy was walking the park. The room was freezing. I mean, it was literally icicles hanging in there. It was the coldest room I've ever been in, but that was nothing for me. The brachytherapy was like, when I woke up I was laying in a recovery room was like when I woke up, I was laying in a recovery room.

Greg Fenner:

I equate brachytherapy to a colonoscopy. Okay, okay, count backwards from 10. Best sleep of my life, and I woke up in another room with people looking at me smiling.

Greg Fenner:

Now here's what I did not like. This is personal preference, the MRI was just going in. That, like this is personal preference.

Greg Fenner:

Yeah, the MRI was just you know, oh, really Going in that chamber, that's a small, it was like being in a being like buried alive in a casket.

David Lottahall:

This is interesting.

Rudy Fenner:

Then the first time it was fine.

Greg Fenner:

I was just whistling, you know, thinking about you know, because I was playing golf. After that, thinking about that, the next time I went in, something hit me. I don't, it's like I don't know if I had like a moment that is, this was gonna happen when I'm gonna die, okay, I'm getting cremated because I can't wake up in this thing. Yeah, you know, and and so that that's it. That was a...

Rudy Fenner:

So I'm sorry, sidebar, we get ready to close, but I gotta tell this story because you said that, uh, I'll tell you and again, you gotta ask people to point of reference. I said what I said to your MRI, but here's why the MRI was no problem to me. When I was treated for my neck cancer, I had to have neck radiation and for my neck radiation, 33 treatments. They created a mold mask that got screwed down to a table and my head was screwed down, covered by the mask 33 times and I never had a problem with it.

Rudy Fenner:

Now, hindsight being 2020, I looked at it and I said dude, you are weird, that sounds and I did.

Rudy Fenner:

Now I did have one episode where it's not funny, but it was funny. So they put you on the table. It it's so hard, it's like something from a barbarian movie. They put you on this hard table because you can't have anything. You're dealing with the rays. You just got to be careful because it'll conduct. So they put you on this hard table, they lay you down in a place and they put the mask on and they screw the mask to the table. And here's what's really funny. Here's what's really funny. When they get ready, the machine gets set up, it calibrates and when the machine gets ready to go, everybody runs out of the room and there's a door that's about a foot thick. That's very comforting.

David Lottahall:

It's a door that's about a foot thick.

Rudy Fenner:

And when the door closes, it's like the seal, a little bit more than the seal on an airplane door, when, a little bit more than the seal on the airplane door, when the airplane closes, and everything just goes. You said, how long was that? So the process? You were in there for maybe only about 10 minutes. The thing was you, I had to do it 33 times on 33 days. I had to do that and I only I did have one day where they strapped me down, the door closed and I held up my hand and the guy came in. I said, bro, I need a minute. And he said he said you know what? I'm really surprised it took you this long to do this. He said take as long as you need. I said no, actually I need only like a couple of minutes. But for some reason, my.... I just got my, everything got off. Nah bro.

David Lottahall:

And I never had a problem. Yeah, that's asking for a lot from me, I don't want that and I'm never even going.

Greg Fenner:

I don't want that.

Rudy Fenner:

I kept the mask and I keep it. I have it downstairs and I bring it out every now and then If people start getting a little. You know, every now and then I'm talking to people about diets and things and they get a a little big chest on me about how they have this, and that I said let me tell you what some options are, Chief. You want to eat the salad? You will, because here, right here, here, right here, let me just tell you what this is. Yeah, so, anyway. So I understand what you said about the MRI. That's really interesting and perspective and all of that.

Greg Fenner:

So let's wrap this up, because one thing, a therapy I couldn't think of earlier was proton therapy. Ah, there you go.

Rudy Fenner:

Proton therapy and I've heard that there's some incredible advances in that and minimal side effects. And the only reason I didn't get.

Greg Fenner:

My physician said look, we got the equipment. I just don't have enough experience with proton therapy in terms of outcomes as much as I do with brachytherapy, the way we do brachytherapy I got. Let me tell you I'm really confident in treating your cancer with that, not as much with proton, because I just don't have that experience. That was enough for me. Your experience, his experience mattered to me, but it's really pretty advanced.

Rudy Fenner:

Wow, wow. So y'all have been incredible in talking about this man. I am hoping, as a matter of fact, I'm going to get some t-shirts made and I'm going to, I'm going to do these and the t-shirts going to say "what's your PSA? Because I am, I am beginning to be, and I think God does. This puts this thing in your heart about injustice and things that aren't right, and I'm beginning to be angry about our ignorance in terms of PSA and are not understanding how easy this is on the front end If we get it at the beginning, this process and I don't mean I'm not trying to minimize it, I'm saying easy in terms of stage one versus stage four and and the things that I'm hearing hearing, I have friends who've had the radical surgeries and their lives are altered and it's not going to correct in some cases.

Rudy Fenner:

I, in fact, I know some are out there, I just haven't talked to anybody that's 100 back to where they were after that surgery. It is, it's a lot, and so I want to do everything I can to talk about it, to get it in front of people, to be an advocate and, honestly, I don't mind being a mild - actually, I don't care at all about being a pain in the ass if that's what it causes people to look alive, to wake up, to see this stuff, to pay attention. David, let me close out. I'm going to toss to you and Greg. Any last-minute things we should mention?

David Lottahall:

Just push the awareness. I think that's the biggest thing here. Um, like I said, the the minimal conversations that I've had with people in my circle uh, has been very small. We've talked about other things, um, but that particular topic we have not yeah, we had in-depth conversation about, but you know we are getting older, so we need to be more aware of the things that are.

Rudy Fenner:

So I will definitely get two of those PSA t-shirts for you, one to wear and one to give out. Greg any last minute thoughts?

David Lottahall:

So it's really important. First thing I would say is know your family history. Know your family history.

David Lottahall:

Know your family history, no matter what anybody tells you, and there's a lot of literature now that says that the PSA is not as valuable in early detection or as accurate. Don't buy into that. Get your PSA checked at least annually at a minimum beginning age 50. But if you have family history, start it before that and I'll tell you. You asked David about him and his friends. Funny story is I have several groups that we get together for lunch at least once a month and a lot of these guys are retired. The first 15 minutes is all about health updates and the latest thing you know what we woke up with this morning.

David Lottahall:

Have you ever had this? And we actually had a friend of ours who had a cyst on his backside that he had had there for some time and we were like, are you nuts? You got to get that thing removed. So we really pressured him. He went to see his doctor that afternoon. Within two weeks he was in surgery and had it removed and the doctor said what in the world took him so long? Because it was getting bigger and bigger. It was a non-cancerous, it was a benign cyst.

David Lottahall:

But it's like how can you let this thing just grow on you like that? So if you have the early screening, knowing your family history, talking to your peers about health issues, but if you do have a peer with a health issue, even if it strains your relationship, you got to press them into getting the proper health care. Don't let losing a friend because -,- if you want to really lose a friend, don't say anything and you'll lose a friend permanently. If you want to really lose a friend, don't say anything and you'll lose a friend permanently. So don't be ashamed or shy about you know, promoting personal advocacy yeah, for your own health yeah, yeah, amen to that.

Rudy Fenner:

And you, you made me think I have a. I have a guy that I work around and for the last two months I'm sure it's been at least two months, maybe three I've heard a cough from him. That bothers me, because it doesn't sound like a cold. You shouldn't have a cough, but it's a cough and I think it's so regular to him. He's not even noticing, and so I gotta say something that's the call to action is not only for me, but to stop sitting, looking, listening, observing and just keeping it to myself, because sometimes people just need a little bit, a little urge and a little encouragement, a little positive whatever, just to move them in the direction of having this stuff checked. Because you're right, David, there ain't no such thing as just a cough. Nobody just coughs.

David Lottahall:

You just breathe, you just blink, you don't just cough.

Rudy Fenner:

So we cannot always thank you. We can't thank you enough for joining us. Family history, PSA, early screenings talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk about what you experienced and listen to what other people experienced, encourage, love and care for each other. Thank you for joining us again Officially, Fenner Agile Always - ". As always, the barbershop segment of our podcast. We thank you so much. We love you. Be blessed and do right. Live long. I want to see you on the track when we're in our 90s. Y'all be blessed, bye-bye.

Marley Rowe:

Officially Fenner. Thanks you for joining us. Please subscribe and hit that like. Button.