Think Better. Love Better. Live Better: The 10-Second Pause, with Positive Intelligence Coach Ellen Gray

Have you ever noticed how just one deep breath can completely change a tough moment? One minute you’re about to snap… and the next, you choose a calmer, kinder response instead.

That’s what we talked about with our dear friend and coach, Ellen Gray.

In this episode, we unpack Positive Intelligence and why learning to pause—just for a few seconds—can transform how we show up in our marriages, with our kids, with friends, and even with ourselves. This isn’t “office talk” or self-help theory. These are real-life tools for real people trying to love well and stay grounded in everyday stress.

Ellen explains PQ as “mental fitness”—basically learning how to train your mind the same way you’d train your body. We talk about our inner “Judge” and those familiar saboteurs like the Pleaser, Controller, and Avoider—and how many of them started as good qualities that just got overused along the way.

She also shares part of her own story, including becoming a “little mother” at just eight years old. It’s such a powerful reminder that empathy is a gift—but without boundaries, it can quietly run your life.

You’ll hear simple practices you can use right away—like focusing on your breath or paying close attention to small physical sensations—that even young kids can learn to calm big emotions. We talk about why feeling safe matters when you’re doing this kind of inner work, when therapy might be helpful, and why small, consistent habits beat “all-in” efforts every time.

Ellen also walks us through her seven-week program, the small pod groups, the daily app support, and how these tools help keep that inner critic from calling the shots.

We kept thinking while recording: what if families shared a common language for stress? What if teens learned these skills early? What if caregivers set loving boundaries without guilt?

That’s what this work makes possible.

You are not “just wired this way.”
 You can notice your patterns, choose differently, and make your next conversation a little kinder and clearer.

Listen in, try the 10-second pause, and let us know what changes for you. And if this episode speaks to you, please share it with someone you love, subscribe, and leave a review—it helps us keep growing this community together.

Reach Ellen: EllenGray@verizon.net. Please say that you found me through the Agile Always podcast!

Thank you for spending time with us today! We hope you enjoyed our conversation, related to something we said, and learned something new along the way.  

Please give us a like and subscribe to our podcast, so you don't miss ANYTHING! 

Follow us @AgileAlways and be sure to check out our website, www.agilealways.com! 

A special thanks goes to @yancylott for producing, editing, and creating the music for our podcasts!
xo,
Robin & Rudy

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: PQ At Home

Speaker 1 0:00

Officially Fenner with your hosts Robin and Rudy, a podcast about family where we live, love, and laugh along the way. Welcome back to the Agile Always podcast. Today's conversation is one we've been really looking forward to because it sits right at the intersection of how we think, how we react, and how we love. And Agile Always, we talk a lot about movement, nutrition, community, and relationships, but there's another layer that quietly shapes all of it. It's a voice in our head. The patterns you we fall into under stress. Split a second decisions, a split a second between something happening and how you respond. Robin has a quote she loves for sex in the city, uh, where Sarah Jessica Parker says, the most exciting, challenging, and significant relationship of all is the one you have with yourself. It really stuck. That that's a true statement. Because if that relationship is strained, it's a harsh, critical, reactive thing that we're doing. It shows up everywhere else in our marriages, with our kids, with our friends, our co-workers, even in how we take care of our health. Today we're talking about positive intelligence, often called PQ. You may have heard of it discussed in leadership or corporate settings, but we wanted to bring this conversation home into everyday life, into relationships, and is into the moments that actually matter. For this conversation, I'm leading in terms of starting, but we're gonna toss to Robin, who has really done PQ. And Alan and I've been an incredibly interested observer of this also. I'm gonna toss it to Robin and you take it away.

Speaker 4 1:35

Well, thank you very much. And thank you, Ellen Gray, for being with us today. I am so excited to have you. Um I did the PQ course with you, and I've been anxious to share it with other people ever since then. And some people in my household really can't get away from it because you know, for example, I have my grandson come and do like breathing exercises and rub his fingers together when he's a little upset, and it really calms him down. And sometimes he even comes to me and asks me if he can do it. So this is such a marvelous, uh, wonderful, exciting um uh uh thing to learn about. And and it really I found it life-changing.

Speaker 1 2:10

So Ellen, let me just jump in and tell you this. It's nothing more exciting than watching a four-year-old go to his grandmother and say, Mimi, I need to breathe.

Speaker 2:19

Yes.

Speaker 1 2:21

It's beautiful. So you've you've already earned so many rewards and stars here.

Speaker 2 2:26

Well, it's one meme to another.

Speaker 4 2:29

That's right. That's right. Yes, you understand too as a grandmother. So, with all that, we've been having a whole our own conversation with Ellen. But let me introduce you to Ellen Gray. Ellen is founder of Unlimited Horizons. It's a woman-owned coaching business based right here in Northern Virginia. And I have known Ellen for more than 20 years. So we go back to some of the corporate training that um I did with her, and that's where I first met her, and I learned of her wonderful skills, talents, and her willingness to share um uh what she knows um in a very um positive and professional and non-judgmental way. And that's one of the things that I really love about her. Um she helps people see their strengths, their talents, and their potential while also recognizing the ways they may be limiting themselves uh through self-sabotaging patterns. Okay. And um that's one of the things that we kind of study through uh PQ. Um Ellen describes herself as a perennial, a baby boomer who consistently reveal reinvents herself, and we all do that and embraces new adventures. Um after a wonderful career across corporate higher education and the public sector, she recently retired from the Fairfax County as a learning and development manager to uh fully build her coaching practice. Um as I said you know before, she's a very compassionate person and she wants to help develop compassionate people as well, starting with, as we said, the most important one of all, starting with yourself. Um she holds multiple coaching credentials and most recently earned a certification in listening intelligence. That was a new one for me. Okay. Um and while she's had many professional successes, she will tell you her greatest role is being a mother and now a grandmother, which we relate to. Um, a lifelong resident of Northern Virginia, uh, she and her husband raised two wonderful children, Justin and Jess, both psychologists, and she loves walking her big, beautiful dog, staying active and eating water skiing, which I didn't know about the water skiing. That's that's a new one. We'll talk about that later. Good for you. But um anyway, so we've been mentioning the term positive intelligence in our kind of intro comments. Can you, Ellen, tell us what that is all about for someone who's never heard of it?

What Positive Intelligence Means

Speaker 2 4:50

Oh uh so thank you for having me um be part of your uh um always agile community. Uh and in order to waterski, um I gotta be a little agile, right? So physically and mentally, and um and so I I have such resonance uh with your purpose and your vision uh to build this community. So um thank you for having me. Describing positive intelligence, it's an experience. Um and so I always like to start out with this. Every day our minds are self-sabotaging us, whether whether we realize it or not. And for many people, that is like, oh, what is she saying? Self-sabotaging, and how would I not know that? Well, it is um deeply rooted, and we're on autopilot, and all of our negative emotions, including stress, that anxiety, that frustration, the disappointment, the guilt, the shame, the self-doubt, right, the inability to stop that mind chatter, right, is a result of that self-sabotaging. And then I ask the question, are you how good of a friend are you to your mind or your mind to you? Our minds can be our best friend or worst enemy. You know, we have two brains, the left side of the brain is our survival brain, in addition to survival, the rational brain, the logical brain, the analytical brain, right? But our fears reside in this left side of the brain, the right side of the brain is the sage side of the brain, where we can access empathy, curiosity, our creativity, those insights that come. Um, and that's the right side of the brain. So, what positive intelligence, the PQ program, what it does is it gives a person simple yet very effective tools to identify, then stop self-sabotaging behaviors, all the while strengthening their ability to respond to life's challenges with a clearer sense of purpose, that empathy, that calmness, that curiosity, increase mental resilience, you know, the way that you bounce back, so that you're able to take very clear-headed, that laser-focused actions. So when we make decisions, we know the why and how to do that. So that's that's briefly the description of the program, um, because it is unique. It is unique, right?

Speaker 4 8:57

Right. And so does that um when you consider how you're trying to balance the left and right sides of your brain, would you call that kind of balancing your behaviors?

The Brain’s Judge And Saboteurs

Speaker 2 9:10

So it is understanding what behavior is showing up. So it's it's like catching it, identifying it to be able to then like come to center, that's through the self-command, to access that right side of the brain. So yeah.

Speaker 4 9:32

Right, right.

Speaker 1 9:33

Yes, I remember that part. So let me just jump in because this is this is so cool. Um the first thing Eleanor that caught my attention when Robin started to work with you and she started to take this was I I I really understood the the importance of the messenger. Because to be honest, in different ways I've heard said what AQ said and I've heard it framed in different ways. But I realize the value in the messenger because she was able to really hear it through you. I don't want it to be lost that I think she had heard in different forms and variations what you'd said before, but it was something about the way you did it that she could hear it. And that's a fascinating thing. That the words got into her head and she was able to look at it and say, Wait a minute, but what if I try this? And I and I remember sitting like, I've heard that before. And and I and I really at times we have been very strategic. We will we have asked relatives to say certain things to our children because we didn't think our children would hear it from us. And we were 1000% correct because when the other relatives said it, it was magical golden messages from God. For me, it was just foolish dribble from dad. And it was interesting to watch her respond to what you said, and it made me really understand and go back to respect to the messenger and to always look at that and to and to just to understand the value in that. The other thing was just it was it's so many I keep when she first said this. I remember reading, I think in the Bible I saw where Paul had said, I think myself happy. And it was so many biblical concepts where mentally say, Here's what you can do, here's what I do, and and what you're doing, these tools are magnificent in that we we do believe even people of faith will have a belief and the knowledge that they can but don't know how. Right. And so you know that there's a door and you know you can go through it, but you don't know how. And and as you started to outline that and explain it, for the more I'm a I'm an emotional feeler. I can I can take a feeling and I can go a thousand miles with it. Robin is a thinker. What's the science behind what you just said? And and and and what you're describing as a science that allows people to get their arms wrapped around this whole concept. So uh just a couple of observations right out of the gate, and I I'm I am awestruck by just how things are the messages and and and and what you're saying and getting right to that matter. You're right. I I've I've learned things in 40, what is it, 46 years of marriage? I've learned responses and reactions that I decided to teach myself. I did not have phrases and didn't understand the the science behind what you're saying, but there'd be behaviors that I have adapted that were strictly, I I thought they were the right thing, and I ended up teaching myself. I didn't really realize and understand all of those things that you just said that made you like, ah, well, that's how I did that.

Speaker 2 12:42

So thank you. So, Rudy, um I am uh very appreciative of you bringing up the science behind it. Um, and uh one, congratulations on being the recipient of Robin's, you know, her journey, right? That's the whole point. That is the whole point of herself and for those, you know, in her circle, right? Um, is so positive intelligence is absolutely based. The research is in neuroscience. And for most of us, it's like, well, I'm not a neuropsychologist like my son, right? Um I just take it, you researched it with Stanford and Harvard, right? And um, and but I had to I had to go through it myself with my why, and really experience it for myself um as an individual in this time of my life, right? And um, and as a coach. And and so the science behind it, you know, as a coach, I get to say that, but it plays out in those tools that I talked about. And the sciences that are at the the root of positive intelligence, Sherzad Shameen is the founder, the researcher. His vision is to change the world and have in every high school around the world positive intelligence, so that the this next generation, right, is is responding to life's challenges with empathy.

Science Behind PQ

Speaker 4 14:43

That would be amazing. Yeah, that would solve a lot of problems.

Childhood Roots Of Patterns

Speaker 2 14:47

Yes, right, yeah. Um, and so the science behind uh for those who think and have more of a rational logical, they lead with that mind. So, Rudy, somebody like you, right? So the science is behind this, um positive psychology, a lot of lot of major work done in the last 30 years in that emotional intelligence, where now many people have heard of that, and again, over the last 30 plus years, that research, right? So it combines positive psychology, emotional intelligence, cognitive behavioral therapy. So a habit, right? And performance science management. So those are at the core of this whole program. Uh, and and it's important for people to know that, right? Now, we're not going to dive into the sciences, we're gonna go with those simple practical tools, but everything that's about this program is based on science, the neuroscience. And so I have been in the world of adult education, learning and development the last, oh gosh, some 15 years with coaching, and it was like everything came together finally, and it was so simple, and it dives dope so deep, so quickly, and and without shame or judgment, like I should do this, I should know this. Look at me at this age, you know, look at me as you know, I've got college-age students, or um, I'm at this type of position in a in an organization. I should know better. No, no, there is none of that, right? So we come to the table in positive um intelligence as an individual who as a child, from the eyes of the child, develop protective mechanisms centered around our strengths that we bring into this world, right? But there was there were something or some things that I had to protect myself, and that it forms, and it protected us and it served us well as a child, but then became way overdone, you know, as our adult maturation or adult development, right? And I'm more than happy to give you a personal example, if you would like, please do the vulnerability. My parents divorced when I was eight, and my brother was five, and I remember vividly that I became the little mother, right, to my brother. Um, and immediately, and I remember listening to my mother cry. I'm upstairs in bed and listening to her crying, right? She's overwhelmed, she's anxious, she's stressed, you know, her whole life is turned upside down, and she is faced with this, right? And as I went through positive intelligence, right, I went all the way back to root cause of my pleaser. And pleaser is one of the nine accompliced saboteurs. Now, a pleaser has every every saboteur has underlying strengths, okay. I am empathetic, I am loving, I am caring. Okay, well, what does a pleaser do? We go a little overboard. So I wanted to make my mom better, less not cry, right? I wanted to make her better, and so my pleaser, I was the little mother, I was the one that learned how to cook early, I was the one that you know took charge of my little brother, right? I needed to please in order for her to feel better, right? Fast forward decades later, right? I'm in my relationship with my husband. You're 46 years, we're 46 years plus a few years before, right? And I now am able to see very clearly the decisions I made in my life, not all of them, right? There was this major element of pleasing again showing up. And I got clarity, and now more fully recognize, you know, how I did it, why I did it, the you know, I got clarity. And when I decided to make this next chapter of mine, and it was not an easy decision, right? I fully had to kind of recognize and just chuckle, laugh at myself, because I had to now switch and say, Ellen, you can't give it away like you did. Right, right. You know, the free the free coaching, catch me in the hallway, right? I now have made a decision to become a woman-owned small business, and Robin has actually coached me, Ellen. You can't give it away. And and and because I can slip right back into yes, but I need to help.

Speaker 4 21:29

The pleaser.

Speaker 2 21:30

The pleaser, right? Right? Yeah. Um, and so that's um that's a very personal example, but it's so vivid, and it demonstrates at any age you're gonna be able to see for yourself how you self sabotage. So when people come to me, I need them to be as open. Open as possible.

Speaker 4 22:02

And you know what I learned as I was working with you is that when you say the word saboteur, it sounds negative. And having too much of that, as you explained earlier, takes you too far. But there are some good things about having those qual some of those qualities that can work in your life. And so I remember doing the assessment that you gave me, I was like, oh my gosh, I feel so terrible. But um, but as you took me back, as you explained, you know, in your own life, and you think about things that happened and how you reacted and why it helps you understand why you are the way you are now. Right. You know, and then um as I also had personal situations that I had to learn to um adapt my responses to or back over back down from somewhat, it came to me right away. You know, it's like, okay, I don't have to respond to everything right away. That was one of my favorite lessons. You don't have to respond to everything right away. Right. You can take some time. And I think that is an excellent idea for for a lot of people. You know, sometimes you do, but you know, a lot of times you don't. Um and I could walk away from a room or situation. And I didn't feel like I even before this, I would feel like, yeah, I've got to respond right away. I'm gonna send a text one or call you and tell you exactly what I think. You know. And that this I felt so I could walk away, and that person's waiting for me to, you know, respond, and I didn't, and they're still waiting, and I didn't. And in during that time, I was able to calm myself down. So that when I did respond, my response was so much better than it would have been had I responded right away. And um I was so excited about that. I'm just I told people in my house that I'm just going to think.

Speaker 1 24:01

That's the verb now. That's a verb statement.

Speaker 4 24:05

That's a new favorite word.

Speaker 1 24:07

We don't always know exactly what it means. We just know she's done.

Speaker 4 24:15

Right. But for me personally, it was it was just so life-changing, and that's why I'm so excited about it. I wanted to make sure that we shared it. But anyway.

Speaker 1 24:22

So so two things that came to mind. So so so the first is that uh although it's a little bit off the path, it's just a reminder. Um, I'm always reminded of these things as a parent, as a grandparent, and I constantly try to keep this in front of us all the time. The incredible impact we have on our children.

Speaker 3 24:40

Oh, yeah.

Pleaser Story And Boundaries

Speaker 1 24:41

Because it's amazing that we are the ages that we are. You mentioned what you mentioned about what you saw at eight. I immediately have an array of things that I saw at the various ages, at that very at that age. So does Robin. And I and I and I go back, the beauty of having uh a life around our grandchildren is to remind our children of uh oh, that's gonna leave a mark. If you want to watch that right there. These little subtleties that sometimes are subtle, very subtle, but some are not. But just to understand the life long impact of those things. The other thing that came to mind was as I'm listening to you talk and I'm listening to Robin, um one of the things I do a lot in the faith-based community, and and a fascinating thing, and this is not critical, it's just a reality. Um and I would say the same thing of the medical community, having friends in that. Most people that need a doctor are outside of the doctor space. Most people that need faith are outside of church. Most people that need what you're talking about are outside and aren't going to come in. How do you work to enable people to understand this issue that they're they're they're living in it and they're doing it. But but I don't think most people understand what you explained and those saboteurs and to to really when you look at it, everybody says, Oh, oh, that's familiar. But on your own, I don't think you say, I have an issue and I need to get help with that. How do you help people move to recognize and then seek guidance and assistance?

Speaker 2 26:16

That's an excellent point. Um usually um I have people usually have some kind of wound that that's not healing, that there's something um they they have recently gone through um and and they they literally this the self-doubt um typically like takes us over. The um the I'm not worthy. I can't how could I ever be this kind of a parent or this employee or this leader, right? I'm not qualified. Somebody's gonna find me out.

Speaker 1 27:23

The self-worth I've seen that, yes, right?

Speaker 2 27:29

Um the imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1 27:32

Yes, yes.

Slowing Down Reactive Responses

Speaker 2 27:34

And that that judge, right? So yes, the the the verbiage, and you you you could use any, frankly, terminology, but the the terms um to identify this positive intelligence, saboteurs, um, and then the sage, right? Um and and so it could be the Stanford students would say the Darth Vader side, right? And then the Jedi side. So yeah, so you you can kind of put any um you know any commentation on it. Um but the the our judge, so universally around the world, um, we all have the judge, and the judge is that inner critic voice that gets so loud, and typically that voice starts beating us up very harsh. Okay, can't get out. This is the voice at night that does not allow you to sleep. This is the voice that um will limit us from trying or reaching out, right? We have the judge of self, judge of others. Well, if I'm not good enough, look at you. You're not how'd you get that job, right? You know, are you good enough? And then there's this judge, you can walk down the street and you're judging people, right? And many people say, Well, I don't judge people. Oh, come on, we don't we do it all the time. Um, and then the judge of circumstances. If only, you know, I had I got married, if only I had children, if only I got that job, right? Well, I didn't get that job because that person, that person who was really not qualified, but only got the job because he knew, you know, the inside track or whatever. And but at nighttime, you didn't get it because you weren't worthy enough, right? So we all have the judge. So when when when when when people just are at a point that something is just not working, something has to change, and I really don't know where to start. That's typically when you know when I they come, right? Rudy, so it's like when when do you know when do you come? And it's when I'm able to hear and feel them, feel that angst, right? Then I need to then help them see for themselves, are you open enough to be willing to explore and you know try it out? Because coaching, I don't sell coaching, right? Coaching can't be bought really, you have to come and want, right? So um, and and so for for someone to come and let me listen to them, and when I listen, and this is just me, I feel I can feel you, right? And and then we coaches we'll ask some tough questions, right? But are you are you are is life just are you not navigating life well the potential that you could have with the relationships with your teenagers, right? Or the children going off to college or coming home from college, and still they got a degree, but still they're they're young adults, right? You know, it's a whole different relationship, and and if you're experiencing distance or pain or those conversations that when you're finished with the conversation and you go, oh well that didn't go as planned, right? That didn't go, you know, I've made it worse, right? So if you know if if something, if your well-being, right, if if the stress levels and now your blood pressure is up, or you say to yourself, oh, I'm gonna go on a diet, right? I'm gonna go exercise, and you last two days if you're right, and and that stress level, and then you're a failure, right? Then that inner critic starts, see, see, yeah, you you promise yourself again and look at you, you failed again, right? Um, so understanding um those uh being able to understand something gets in your way and then catching it, right? And Robin had talked about you know being able to center herself to be able to not respond. Here she is, and she's talking about really that second step in positive intelligence. The first one is catching the saboteur that that inner critic could whoop whoop, wait a minute, that judge is is too loud, right? Or being that avoider or controller, right? We all have these accomplished saboteurs to some degree, right?

Speaker 4 34:06

And learning to recognize them, yeah, right. Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 34:10

Um, but then you go, wait, as soon as you go, like, wait, hey, you know, hang on. And what you end up doing is you end up in self-command. And we can talk about that, how to stay get into that self-command to then access that right side of the brain. So it's it's frankly a three-step process. I you know, I don't want to oversimplify it. Um, but again, we humans, we can't handle much more than three steps. Well, it's it's gotta be, you know, you have to be able to repeat it, it's gotta be simple enough, it has to, you know, to be able to form that new habit, right? So the science behind this, the cognitive behavioral therapy, right? There is that science behind that. So people come to me wounded, don't want to handle this like this anymore, or they want, I want a better relationship with my children. I want a better relationship with my spouse, with my boss, with my colleagues, with my friends. But I need healthy boundaries, right?

Recognition Before Change

Speaker 1 35:37

Right, right. Um, and and so It's just recognizing there is more and I can have it. Yeah, which is a fascinating thing. I like that. Yeah, there is more and I can have it. And and just understanding it, it it's and it is it's interesting. You mentioned the workout piece, and that's what's so fascinating about talking with you. We are able to easily identify the whys and the motivators behind physical change, behind physical conditioning, behind size, weight, and all of that stuff. The mental stuff is a lot different because that's a darker, more secret uh thing that we don't expose in as interesting what you said about um I I we've worked with kids before as mentors, and the one thing that's fascinating until they're really ready to let you in, you're not going in. Until they're ready to say I I need and recognize that there is something there's no way there's no way to hammer in therapy. You can't force uh change. And it's a f that's a fascinating thing when you said this, like, yeah, this still comes down to that same thing of recognizing. But you also made me think when Robin did your intro, one of the most i ear-catching things I heard was she said uh she talked about listening. The word listening came up. And I and I as I heard you, I think one of the things is as colleagues, as friends, as family members, there are a lot of opportunities that I believe appear if we're listening. Because we'll hear things, and and the hearing is when the door opens, and sometimes it's to walk through. People who are hard and really stubborn present door openings if I'm listening. And I just have to be quick enough and care enough to dive in when they present it. And I catch them at that moment, and it's like they almost like, ah, you got me. Okay, we gotta deal with this. And it's it's a fascinating thing. That's that's fascinating. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 37:41

So it was um I i i I I listened to you talking, I remember my experience with you, and um it can and and for someone who has not tried it before, it can sound like a like a huge challenge to expose yourself in this way. And I think that's a little bit of what you were saying too about people being afraid.

Speaker 1 38:00

Um, vulnerability is the world world that I live in for you, and this is what makes you, Ellen, to me, like uh uh I I call you, I'll call you a Shiro. You're like a Shiro because I I am and I am fascinated and I don't even know how to phrase the question. Again, I'm starting back at the beginning. How, Robin, were you able to enter into that? Because vulnerability is not a thing you do, but you allowed yourself to be vulnerable with Ellen in a way that just like, okay, what just happened here?

Speaker 4 38:35

You see, I I've known Ellen for some time, and I know a lot of people who are listening will not they don't know Ellen at all, but but I I know her and I've trust her and I know that everything I've ever learned from her, everything I watched her do in training for years with the Fairfax County government and the EDA was just uh spectacular. Now, whether people followed everything or not, that was on them. But but what she said was truth, it was straightforward. Um, she still listened, she offered excellent advice. So I have a trusting relationship. She's a trusted advisor, she's in my circle of trust. Yeah, okay, right.

Speaker 39:09

So let me ask you and love too. So Robert, that's a question for you. And this is interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:13

So you did not, and and I I I I know this. I watched when you started to work with Ellen, you were not doing anything out of curiosity. You went into that different and you went into that allowing yourself to be vulnerable, allowing yourself to go into places that I know you are not normally comfortable allowing people in. What was the thing? I understand the relationship with Ellen was it strictly that, or was it something else that allowed that made you say, okay, I'm going in?

Speaker 4 39:45

You know, consciously I'm not really sure. I there's one thing. Okay. It may have been a combination of factors that you know. I do know Ellen. I thought it sounded very interesting. When I read about it, when she told me about it, and I looked it up. It was a very interesting and um non-scary thing to do. So Ellen got a little bit of a little bit of a little bit about it. It wasn't, it wasn't, it was let me be honest, it was non-scary.

Speaker 1 40:07

When she first started working with you, this was a hostage situation. She she she on like for a week she came to me with an intensity that was almost cult-like. It was like, what in the hell are they talking about? But then she started to talk and she would reveal, and I think uh shaman, you said the um uh creator was the name of the Shizon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you when she called his name and she talked about the points of reference, it was like, oh, wait a minute, this is brilliant. What what's happening here? And it was something that was something that was taking place that was allowing and and I'll and I'll try to I'm I'm always trying to figure out how once we do things, sometimes we can like wait a minute, how did that just happen? So I I think it's important for me to try to understand at some point, and I'll continue to drive it that to understand I think Ellen, you've been the same Ellen for a while. You didn't present a new Ellen, you've been the same Ellen consistent, the messaging is consistent. You've been a person who's held fixed in the position, and I am still incredibly curious as uh as to why she had a day when the light bulb came on. It's just like wait a minute, because and I've noticed the change. I'm I've been with this woman for 50 years now. Yeah, and and I have noticed, um, and you're right, I I I her the the burdens that she sometimes carries. It's as simple as, you know, honey, we're grown people, you don't have to worry about what we eat tonight. This is a constant, this is a constant conversation. When I hear you describe yourself as a child and I listen to her, like, oh, this sounds familiar. And then I'm telling her, honey, there are grown people in this house that if they don't figure out dinner, they should just be hungry. It's really okay. And and that's been a almost a thing that she's been burdened with, but since she started working, there are believe me, there are times when, hey, what are we gonna eat? I don't know. Oh, I wasn't ready for that response. Okay, she's really free.

Speaker 4 42:10

That's what it was. It was so freeing. I guess you can really um I've seen it.

Speaker 1 42:15

And it's just again, the the curiosity it will will continue into I I think it leads me to thinking as a again, as a friend, as a colleague, as a family member to people, that the listening part of this is really kind of amazing and how I I I need to do a better job of hearing because there's messaging and there's things that's going on that I miss.

The Three-Step PQ Process

Speaker 4 42:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, it was definitely was a period of growth. And I think that was um it was something I got something I could relate to beyond the work environment. I gotcha. I think. And I think like I said, I've applied it with in family situations and and other things that I've dealt with, and I just have seen just the benefits. I just feel so much better. And knowing that this exists. And um after I did it for was it seven weeks, I think it is. I worked with you. It is, yes. And then after that, um there's a year-long um uh ex year-long exercises that you still are um privy to that can help you continue to build that muscle and continue to train. So it's like if you go to the gym one day and work out on every machine, great, but you know, you need to keep working out, you need to try different things and that sort of thing. So um creating that habit is really important. So anyway.

Mental Fitness As A Habit

Speaker 2 43:35

Robin, I I really appreciate you and Rudy bringing up the mental fitness habit and the um the analogy of you know, the physical fitness working out, going to the gym and um you know, a couple of times a week, right? And you make it that habit because you see the benefits. right the um and and we you know our our children go to school and they have pe right and they're lucky if they get an hour you know more like 40 minutes or something right but we the we don't concentrate on that mental fitness right um and and again that's sharzad's shamin's you know vision he wants all these middle school and high schoolers around the world to concentrate on their mental fitness right so that they can access that ability to stay out of judgment really for self but to be able to feel and listen to others and that's the empathy and that the compassion right um and have these tools and so when um there are over 70 000 people like me who have gone through positive intelligence and in the community to spread it out to the world 70 000 around the world uh and uh which since frankly january of 2020 when shirzad like his book was published in 2016 but he pushed it out to the world saying coaches come you know and take part in this because he knew that we had to experience it just like Robin did to be able to say oh my gosh yeah this this is life changing right it is lifelong so the program um is seven weeks and it's not a big time you know you know commitment in that week uh which to me is fascinating right um and just having the simplicity to help guide people through the seven weeks and then there's a six week integration but then you have the app on your phone as Robin said for a full year until you would come back to me and say I want I want more of it and then we would discuss that right um and so the simplicity of of the program itself uh is very doable um and but again it is are you curious enough you know to explore it and usually when people are at the point I need something different it's because the pain whatever pain they're experiencing is now right I I can't do it anymore yeah I need I need some kind of tool I need to do something differently right and and they need to do what I'm finding and I've now led a hundred and fifty people through the program and what I have found is that they need to feel safe supported right yes because when you go through the program you will peel back layers yeah like like I did right um and there are some people where they've peeled back the layers and they are raw right and so that is when there have been times when I look at this person and I feel them and I go I think you need to go talk to a professional therapist counselor or she will have revealed to me I need to talk to that professional right because it it can right um and so it I have like two handfuls out of the 150 um most of the you know for the majority of us oh wow look how I operate right yeah and oh wow I don't have to respond so the reactivity right um where we jump in you know and we're not sure how we're jumping in or the why behind it so if somebody were to ask me Ellen what do you what do I always see like out of these 150 people like always see and that is that ability for that self-command right and and being able to understand how to react having that choice right to respond re you know react and respond it is that central core right there they now have the ability right that's so good to send it some of you say something but you know what makes me crazy Ellen and it's gosh you hit a nerve for me when somebody tells me well that's the way I am you're not stuck on an island you can change that there's options and what you're saying is so beautiful and and it means so much to to it doesn't have to be that way.

Speaker 4 50:10

You don't you're not stuck you have options that's one of the most awesome things about all this I'm sorry go on what you're saying that's very cool that's okay I'll come back to it in a moment but uh yeah but that was I'm listening to you now but but I I will say I was I was not necessarily looking for something this this kind of came to me and a lot of times I feel things come to me and I can say that because I'll get an idea in my head I don't want to give myself credit for it. I don't know if it's a spiritual thing or whatever.

Speaker 1 50:37

I think God is just saying we got to move you child.

Speaker 4 50:39

But I think he moves different people in different ways you know so I'm the one that who give an idea to and I have to go share it with someone and that's what I do and whatever they do with it is up to them but I'm supposed to tell them so I I have a pastor at my church and I'm always telling him I now this came to me I don't know why but I think what you need to we need to do and I'm always about bringing people together in a community and I love trying to find that VIN di that VIN circle Venn diagram I said I think we need to do we need to do some kind of thing where we're doing an interface service and we need to bring everybody together at this time and and just show that you know we all can work together and we all have commonalities and so it's taking several months to make that happen. But it just came to me so I told him I said okay I'll see you later let me know how it turns out not really I'm sure I helped them with it but it's just taking a little while to bring it together you know when you have so many different people involved but in any case but this was one of those things that was like that too and I will just never forget it. And it just helped me to um to deal with so many different things in in life you know in that way. Right. So now um I'm going to um ask you about your coaching sessions and I can't remember if you do cohorts but I know you do one on one-on-ones but do you also do cohort sessions so you have multiple people or not?

Speaker 2 52:00

Yes so I I do both um there are times when um kind of like minded people will come my way and I will form um small anywhere from three to six people and we call them pods P-O-D-S pods but they're trusted circles is really what they are and um I am um I I will facilitate the integration and learning from the weekend before so how quickly how this works is that you will download an app on your phone and we would have um agreed upon the on a Monday or a Tuesday a time to meet via Zoom right um and so that I can help process what you learned over the weekend and there's always an expertial um component in the learning over the weekend and it's an hour an hour on your phone you can stop and start it right watching the video and you will hear Sherzad Shamin he leads this right but the Monday or Tuesday we process and I do um I can do evenings so during the day evenings we schedule it uh and so I can lead a the small group and the sharing and the richness that comes from this right so if you have people in your community who have like fully in right with your community and say I get four or five people who get interested yes we can form this support group and um and so I help facilitate the learning and it's about an hour um and it becomes very vulnerable right you share just like the story I share to me and eight years old right um and and we unpack we unlayer but the support is there so small groups right and then in addition if someone really needs the private right they come to me and through either um just they're they're hurting they need they need that private whatever right or they're in a position in an organization where they need privacy right then I do individual right right and Robin you you were individual yes right yes yeah and um and and so I can do individual or I can do small groups yeah okay so if someone is listening now and thinks I need this what would be their next step um email me okay I think that's the the easiest easiest way to get a hold of me I mean you could call me but I think the email um is the fastest way to have a um conversation right and your email as address is we're gonna put it in our notes but can you just tell everyone what it is?

Speaker 4 55:37

So it's very easy um all one word Ellen Gray G-R A Y at Verizon.net perfect Ellengray yeah at verizon.net so very easy so um and and the first step will be is that um we'll set up you know a call and let me listen to you right let me listen to you okay yeah sounds good and and I would like if anybody does you know they give me you know I meet with them please identify yourself that you found me through this podcast always agile yes oh thank you thank you um I'm just glad that that you've been able to be a part of it and that we were able to bring you to our listeners and um I just have there's two more things I just wanted to ask you about very quickly if you don't mind before we before we go.

Safety, Vulnerability, And Therapy

Speaker 1 56:37

Is there um one small mental shift that you can uh share with people today that um they might want to practice a little bit so they get a sense of yes um that one small mental shift pause pause take that nanosecond and pause so that you're able to stay in curiosity and empathy that's excellent that's just what I learned so it is it is that so yes and if you're having trouble pausing this is where in 10 seconds you can access this right side of your brain and so Robin remember the PQ repping which I think you probably still do yes pay for 10 seconds pay particular attention exquisite attention to a physical sensation it can be be your breathing and if you choose breathing inhale through the nose exhale right through the mouth but pay attention to the rock and fall of your chest as you're doing that and for most of us we can access that and do that a few times 10 seconds or more right that is how quick you can access that sage to get that pause exactly so that's my my giveaway gift right now to anyone you know um what can they do to shift that is how you can do that is self-command right right that is self-command yeah excellent well um I want to thank you so much for spending time with us today and sharing everything you know not everything you know but so much about PQ that can help help everybody anybody almost um and everybody needs it yeah yeah and um like I said it was very it was it meant so much to me personally it just um I I call it life changing um so I love to share those kinds of uh tools and moments with everyone else well Robin I'm just uh so honored that I was able to walk beside you because you illuminated your path I just helped do a little sunshine thank you thank you messenger I told you we told about the messenger we found the right messenger I yeah I celebrate you Ellen as well I I I I think there's there's so much citizen and I'm I I got stuck um that thought of PQ in schools and and I thought of what I see now and I thought of just when I'm the energy when I'm around young people now and I thought about that energy with the supply and boy did I have a different vision. I I saw something different I I understand his I I I can imagine the intensity in his heart when he first saw that. Because I I got a glimpse of it as he was talking to I'm seeing a completely different thing. The reality now is different from what I see then and that is a that is an incredibly inspirational thought.

Speaker 4 1:00:33

But thank you again we hope everyone feels hopeful not judged um reach out to Ellen for questions conversation and learning how you can implement IQ in your life and you've got an assessment also that you share with folks when they they talk with you and so they can help you see where you are or the areas that you need to to address perhaps and um we didn't talk about this Ellen but I don't think this is the last time we're gonna talk I I think I'm gonna figure out if if Robin doesn't have something we need to oh we already talked it's coming like around around May or June. We didn't have that conversation when the kids come home from college or they're leaving high school they're going to college and you've got to navigate those changes.

Speaker 2 1:01:18

And navigate more intensely any anyone in that major transition yeah and then you know they they're going off to college or to their next phase sure and then they come back and they're not the same when they left yes then um there are many many people who are also then taking care of aging parents.

Speaker 4 1:01:46

Yes all that yeah right um and so they're like right in the middle yeah okay um and what better gift to give yourself is this gift of frankly no judging where am I now yeah just gift of of like who am I now right exactly right yes yes I know people in all those groups so all those things right all right well you continue to have a wonderful day thank you so much from our heart and um thank you thank you and I will be talking to you soon.

Speaker 2 1:02:21

Thank you so great to be with you everyone thank you bye bye officially finna thanks you for joining us please subscribe and hit that like button.