Roguish Goblin Stories: exploring gender through Shakespeare and beyond with Beks Roen.

Dr. Alex Iantaffi geeks out about Shakespeare, gender, and the power of theatre with Beks Roen, founder of Roguish Goblin Stories, an online queer art library where enbies and aspecs are the main characters. Alex and Beks discuss the joy of Shakespeare in the park, the power of exploring gender through acting, and the importance of queer representation.  

Beks Roen (they/he) helps trans/aspec folks and allies who feel isolated and powerless to find chosen family through queer fantasy and Shakespeare. They run Roguish Goblin Stories (RGS), an independent, community-supported online queer art library. Roen’s goal for RGS is to grow it into a streaming platform that supports multiple queer artists full-time, freeing them to focus on the art they were born to share. RGS just launched their first Investor opportunity so, if you're passionate about supporting trans artists, and want a deep, personal connection to the positive impact you're making, you can join them here at this link.   

RGS is about to release new episodes for their podcast "Our Lives Aren't That Interesting!" You can check it out here on YouTube.   They're also looking for aspec guests for their podcast, "An Aspec Guide to Shakespeare." If you know someone who's an aspec Shakespeare artist or scholar, they’d love to interview them! Email them directly at beks [at] beksroen [dot] org 

Find out more about Roguish Goblin Stories and Beks Roen at the following links: 

Website: beksroen.org/rgs
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roguishgoblinstories/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQcPRsnqPpUuo79L7tOQQA
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61584362608360
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@roguishgoblinstories
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/roguishgoblinstory.bsky.social

Instagram: GenderStories
Hosted by Alex Iantaffi
Music by Maxwell von Raven
Gender Stories logo by Lior Effinger-Weintraub

Transcript

0:34

Hello and welcome to another episode of Gender Stories. I know I'm always excited and thrilled about all my guests, but today I have an extra little nerdy piece of excitement because I get to talk about Shakespeare. And for those of you who don't know, I am a little bit of a Shakespeare nerd. know, 30 years ago, I even did the Shakespeare camp at Stratford-upon-Avon so super excited. And I get to talk about this with Beks Roen and they help trans-aspect folks and allies who feel isolated and powerless to find chosen family through queer fantasy and Shakespeare. Beks runs Rogish Goblin Stories, an online queer art library where enbys and aspects are the main characters. Roen's goals for RGS is to grow it into a streaming platform that supports multiple queer artists full-time, freeing them to focus on the art they were born to share. And I'm so excited to explore More about this and as ever listeners, all of the links are going to be in the episode description to find out more about this and welcome Beks Thank you so much for making the time to talk with me for gender stories. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very, very excited. And of course, Shakespeare, I'm even wearing a sword on my shirt today. I know, I noticed that and I was like, I should have worn my little like I have a Shakespeare shirt with like the picture of a bear that's like from anyway, it's so good. Okay. So before we get into the super nerding out about Shakespeare and the listeners are like, what is even happening right now? Let's talk about what is it that you love about Shakespeare? Let's start from there actually, if that's okay. Yeah, I really like, so my background is particularly in mostly like outdoor Shakespeare, sort of like the free Shakespeare in the Park, which is my favorite kind of theater because you get to welcome people who can't access theater otherwise. And so you get a lot of like first time theater folks, which is like so fun because they often have like, oh There's a fun sort of like nerves that they're like, okay, what is this? What are the expectations? I don't know what to but also like this person is making eye contact with me and asking me questions that I'm like I only know half of the words because this is 400 year old text, but I think it's supposed to answer so you get a lot of people who like um and are more engaged with you sometimes and If there's just such a fun like community vibe to that outdoor like Shakespeare in the park. I had some of my favorite stories, uh you know, like getting to see some kids, you know, we're performing in a parking lot and you know, this group of kids who's like trying to stay busy during the summer rolls up because we're swinging swords doing fight call and they're like, what? And they came over and they're sitting on the hot blacktop like there's no shade. We're literally just like out in the full sun and um this like retired guy who had never met them before dropped like over a hundred dollars on our like VIP seats, not for him, but for these three kids that were sitting on the ground by themselves so that they could have a special experience like their first time ever seeing theater. And it's like that kind of like community among strangers, like it's so fun. It is the best. love Shakespeare in the Park. em As my oldest was growing up, we lived near Pataron Park in Minneapolis where they would often have theater in the park, including Shakespeare. And we spent so many beautiful afternoons in community. And I think that is the joy of bringing the theater outside of the theater space, right? And to the people and giving people sometimes that first experience. So beautiful. So I really resonate with so much of what you said. And of course in Shakespeare, because it is Elizabethan theater, there's also a lot of kind of gender swapping, right? And gender play, I would say also. And it's been really wonderful to see how creative people have gotten over the last couple of decades, especially in kind of playing with that in a lot of different ways. And I know that when you contacted me, you said something about how acting in Shakespeare in a way helped you come into awareness of your own gender identity. So I would love to hear more about that and how that process was, what was the process like for you and where there are specific moments that really stand out in that journey for you. Yeah, so I like to say that I face planted my way into professional acting because I was gonna be an engineer. was high school me. was like, this is what I'm gonna do. uh And then I went to a fairly rural Midwest high school and there happened to be a local Shakespeare festival that started performing like across the street from my school. And my family was like, we're going. So like, I started talking with them because I'm an extrovert and have no idea what a stranger is. Exactly. oh And so they sort of like encouraged me to audition. And I was like, I've never done an audition before. I'm curious. I'll just go to see what an audition is. And then I walked out with a gig and went, I guess I'm an actor now. oh that. And it was interesting because the, mean, I was one of the youngest in that cast being like one of the student uh actors. And so I was mostly playing like, know, gentlemen two, citizen four, like non gendered ensemble roles, which meant that like, you know, at the time I didn't really consciously clock it, but like looking Beks, I'm like, all of the costumes that I were in were fairly androgynous or like slightly masculine presenting. uh Combine that with just some of the conversations we had at the actor housing. That was my first time meeting people in the gender diverse community. And they were so just generous and honest about, what are you curious about? Let's talk. And they ended up being some of the first people that I called when COVID hit my first year of college. And then... like started looking around the internet and started hearing more stories and going, boy, oh boy. I might, hmm, some of these stories about being ace and aro and trans are hitting very close to home. Hey guys. But that's great that you already had like a little crew of people that you could call and like talk to. I love that. yeah. we've, I mean, that's been like six plus years, seven years or something like that. And like, we still keep in touch and like, we check in about like, hey, how's life going? Any pronoun updates? Anything I can help with? And yeah, so then like, I went to undergrad and got some experience in some other like theater and... started training in stage combat, which flows really nicely with Shakespeare. Absolutely, there's plenty of stage combat in many plays, yes. Oh, yeah. And that has been a huge, it actually has been a source of like gender euphoria for me because it tricked me into working out. And it was it was really cool to like, say that I got to swing swords for work. And then I started I started assisting with classes and I started training to be a teacher and getting to see like the getting to be there to like boost the confidence of some of my trans students who like, I put a rapier in their hands and I have never seen them stand so tall, eyes so bright. And I was like, yeah, hey there. Look at this. Look at this. Yeah. And so then I think that the, college really helped me. play around with, I got to play more masculine roles and like kind of figure out like, okay, what are the roles that I want to play and how does my gender as the actor like interact with that? And then I went and became, I was an actor teacher at Great Lakes Theater out in Cleveland for a year after, that was right after college. And one of my favorite, favorite things, and I always had my pronoun pin on because I've got a shoulder injury. And so was just a visual marker for my teaching partner since we were rotating just to be like, remember, this is the... Don't pull off this arm, please. uh It's were like 7 a.m. and an English class going, okay. And um so I had my pronoun pen on very visibly and multiple, multiple schools where I would have kids like pulling me aside. and or me and the you know and other folks aside and be like hey um i just wanted to tell you that like because i see you like out and getting to do what you love i know i'm gonna be okay and i still tear up because like that's that's the why under everything because like man if i had had a trans like actor walk into my classroom in high school things might have been a little easier but i at least get to pay that forward Absolutely. I love that. I feel like there are 10 different tangents I want to go with you in this conversation, but let's follow this one first. And then I want to go Beks to kind of this kind of finding yourself through acting role. But I want to talk for a moment about that power of being that person that younger folks like say thank you for making me feel like this is possible. Right. And I definitely. I've experienced, I've been on the receiving end of experiencing that, you know, from kids and young adults sometimes too, as an older trans person, you know, I remember somebody going, I'd never met somebody who was like, at the time more like gender queer, gender fluid before we use non-binary more like 20 years ago when I was in my 30s, who was like above like 25, right? And literally I thought that I had to like pick a gender when I left college. And I was like, you do not have to pick a gender if that's not what you want. You get to just be yourself. And so, you know, I think that the power to be that person that people see and they're like, maybe a life is possible and doing what I want is possible. What is that like for you to be that person for other people, especially as somebody who didn't have that, right? I mean, you had a little bit of that with your first acting crew, sounds like, but. for those kids to have that at a younger age. What does that feel like for you? my goodness, I cry. I'm I'm tearing up actually, like thinking about it again, just cause it is part of why I stay outside of major theater hubs, like your Chicago, New York, LA, just because like, no, wrong with if you are moving there or you live there, but having spent so much time performing in areas, in more rural areas across the Midwest and elsewhere, The impact just feels so much deeper and louder because there's often less access to it. And I mean, people come up who are like, you're the first out trans person I've ever seen! they're crying, I'm crying! it's such a beautiful gift to just be that vessel. Because I'm just like showing up and being like, hello, this is... But it is, know, my being raised in a Christian household, my dad's a pastor. so like being part of that culture of like looking for the people who are pushed out to the sides and being like, no, you get to be in here too and you're loved and you're not alone. It's so, so special. And it makes me laugh and cry all at the same time. That makes a lot of sense. And it sounds like, so, you know, you were brought up in a Christian household, but it sounds like maybe a more inclusive Christian household than some other folks might be. Okay, good. I'm so glad to hear that. Yes, I really lucked out with and like beyond immediate family, like out to like cousins are supportive. And, you know, I got to take my grandma to see her first drag show and it was mine, my mom's and my grandma's first drag show for Trans Day of Visibility a few years ago. like, you know, it's I... Part of why I'm doing what I do and starting to produce more and gather my own groups is because I know how rare, unfortunately, that welcoming family and that welcoming environment is. And I'm like, well, dang it, I'm going to pay it forward to as many people as I can. That is so beautiful. And I love that you're doing that through like the power of stories, right? Because again, it's that kind of, sometimes it's hard to be what you cannot imagine or to create what you cannot imagine. And, you know, even in this moment, I think I'm really seeing a lot of fear of like, if we do away with this part of the system, then what is life going to look like? Right. And I get it. It's very human to be afraid of uncertainty. And so I think the story is an imagination. and art have such an important role to play in the realm of possibility, right? Like I think they help us like expand the sense of what is possible and what we can create and what we can co-create together. And so I love that that, you know, that's what you're focusing your work on. Yes. think especially I just finished reading the book, Great White Bard by Farah Karim Cooper, who is I believe head of education at the Globe. She works at the Globe and the book is specifically about like uh the history of Shakespeare and race making and racism and how it's uh been been used and reclaimed and. oh pushed and pulled in all these different directions. it's, yeah, it's like, well, tracking just how potent the world making of specifically live theater is. It's like, okay, you we saw Shakespeare get co-opted for some, you know, colonialism and imperialism, but that shows that, okay, we can build just as strong systems that are healthier using the same tools. We just gotta know. like how to shape things. Absolutely. And I love that. And I'm really curious about because Shakespeare can be claimed and used in so many different ways, like both in terms of the place, but also the person, right? There are so many who was really Shakespeare. Italians even have their own like Shakespeare was really Italian, you know, which always makes me think of like a. I think it's my big fact, Greek wedding, the movie where it's like, that Greek, that Greek. was like, my God, Italians do the same thing. And so there's like an old theory and that was Shakespeare woman, was Shakespeare this person, Was Shakespeare, what class was Shakespeare, especially in such a class structure and an obsessed country like the UK, which definitely is. I mean, lived there for a good 15 years before moving to the so-called United States. And so Shakespeare, I think, can be manipulated in so many ways, both the person and the work. And so I'm curious about how you found your way through into your own gender identity and expression through the different characters. And maybe even if there are one or two characters or one or two plays that really stand out, they were like a moment for you. And maybe not, but I'm just curious. Yeah, okay, characters coming to mind right off the top of my head. um I know that like just as a baseline, I give off a lot of puck energy from Midsummer. Like I am a chaos goblin through and through. I really like, I'm thinking of... Honestly, a lot of the roles that I usually use for auditions, I'm thinking of Alphidius from Coriolanus, Arthur from King John. And I'm also really fascinated by the idea of Beatrice and Benedict from Much Ado, especially Beatrice being non-binary, because they have that speech about, oh God, that I were a man. oh Hearing that speech as an AFAB trans masculine person hits a little different. There's a lot in Shakespeare that I feel like I revisited once I came into my gender and I was like, it does feel different. There is something, you know, yes, there is just so much gender in the place. Yes. m I really like pulling from the histories and some of the like, Coriolanus is definitely not one of like, you know, it's no Caesar or Hamlet, you know, as far as popularity goes. But like, I think some of those like lesser, less popular plays have some really fascinating characters and like, Alphidius is this, you know, I interpret him as this freedom fighter who's going up against literal Rome. You know, and even Corey Elanes in that play, there's, he has this really strong resistance to uh showing his scars to the people and like going in front of the crowd and exposing his physical body, which I'm like, what's there? Yeah. And it's also fun because like, especially with like, Alphidious. You know, he's this, he's this, you know, this general of this army. so like me being this tiny little five two, you know, I've gotten more than one like, huh? When I, yeah. And I'm like, hear me out. And it's, it's, it's one of those that like, I think it It comes up in the conversations about especially being a trans masculine actor that like I am a very small person, my voice is higher. So roles like Puck, it's like, we need someone who looks not quite fully human. Let's pull the non-binary person. It's like, okay. eh Love the role, but I won't use it as an audition piece because of that. understandable. and roles like Arthur, he's like 14, he's like a kid. And so I get mistaken for a middle schooler frequently. And so it's like, you know, those roles are like, okay, you know, they align pronouns wise with totally cool. Um, and the story is fascinating, but it is fine with roles like Alphiteus and Macbeth, um, those two in particular. Um, to be like, no, really, think about it. Because it's, you know, you're okay, the story has now shifted potentially with how you cast the other actors and what kind of gender dynamics you're gonna have. I mean, Macbeth has some very potent lines about gender, you know, I dare do all that may become a man who dares do more as none. But positioning a trans person as that just absolutely powerful symbol ah is something that I don't see often. I'm seeing it more. um But it still definitely gets enough surprise that I'm like, okay, cool. We're gonna continue to dig into this and be like, no, really think about trans people as the one who can be wielding a sword and shield and winning the day. Exactly. And I think it also opens up people to think about masculinity and femininity and gender in general in different ways. Why is it that we associate maybe this more packed ethereal theory of this world, not of this world qualities to this uh perceived androgyny, let's call it. And why is it that we feel like Macbeth should look a certain way or Ophelia should look a certain way? Where are those ideas coming from? And so I love that kind of subverted quality because also I feel like a lot of Shakespeare work was subversive at the time. really when you think about, especially when I hear the critique often or the concern from some people that's like, well, so many more people, so many more young people are exploring their gender because of the internet. And I'm like, look, I was brought up in the seventies. There was no internet. And I still had gender feelings and people before me still had gender feelings and people have had expansive gender for the whole history of humanity. You know, I always say to people, was like, well, sure, medical science, whatever, even though I'm healthcare provider. But really, like history, like gives us a really good idea. The gender expansiveness has always existed. The gender. hasn't really been binary from the beginning of the world, like some people would have us believe, right? And even just looking at Shakespeare's work, like how much gender is in those plays, both around gender identity, gender dynamics, expectations of gender, what happens when you don't live up to those expectations, the intersections of gender and class and kind of, oh, there's so much there. And I was like, that was no internet people. That was just... Yeah. So, um I think it's just such a good counterargument for folks who are like, it's a contagion, you know, because of the internet. And I'm like, it's really not. Like a lot of us have been thinking about and questioning certain expeditions, society-ly, for a very long time, including Shakespeare, right? I mean, at it feels like it. pronouns alone, mean, gender neutral, using they them as a gender neutral pronoun in English dates Beks pre Shakespeare to at least Chaucer. And, you know, and we used to have two versions of the second person pronouns. like, eh So nothing new under the sun in a lot of ways. Yeah. So I love that you're kind of really uh challenging people to think about the plays in a different way. Cause I think we can get so used to things. Oh, this is what Macbeth looks like. This is like what I expect, you know, out of, you know, King Lear or whatever, right? Whichever character or out of, you know, all of the... Beatrice or any of the characters, right? Or Romeo even like the, some of the most kind of uh popular, let's say Romeo and Juliet. I feel like everybody knows Romeo and Juliet, right? And I've seen some really uh amazing casting of various characters to do with gender and expanding our expectations around gender, which is really fun. Oh, so much to talk about. And I love also what you said about not wanting to necessarily focus on the big theater cities, you know, on the coast or even in Chicago in the Midwest, but really staying in maybe where there's not as much representation or not as much presence, both of trans folks and also, you know, sometimes not as much theater, although I feel like I'm very lucky in Minnesota. have like, I guess, a Leonardo artist, feel. Yeah. Yeah. And the Midwest is such a fun place with, with like theater because you have all these hidden gems of like, all these that you're like, what, what is this? You know, like, what are five gorgeous 20s renovated theaters doing in Cleveland? I, I love the Cleveland theater scene and like Northeast Ohio has some really cool stuff. I've worked in, I've worked in Indianapolis. Actually, the play that I did in Indie was called Gender Play, Will Wilhelm and Erin Murray. And I got to understudy it and it was all, was just non-binary Shakespeare and tarot and just cracked open my, again, just cracked open a little bit more of what I thought was possible. And my fellow crew members definitely caught me a couple times backstage scribbling furiously in my notebook. Not because anything had gone wrong and I was taking notes, but because I'm listening to the play and went, oh ideas. Yeah. I love that. I love that kind of sparking of the imagination. So I talking about imagination stories, the importance of stories. em I would love to ask you a little bit more about roguish goblin stories, because first of all, I love the name. We'll love to hear more about why you came up with that name, but also just the idea of having this online queer art library, the streaming project you're doing. Just tell me everything. It sounds fascinating. Yeah, so the name came from, I got the nickname Chaos Goblin at my first stage combat workshop, not because of the gleeful cackling that ensued once I held a sword and was having a fair amount of fun, but because of the ice cream sundae that we had on the second day after training, and I get very hyper on sugar very quickly. uh Thus the name Chaos Goblin. Unfortunately, that is already trademarked. It sure is, yes! I was like, well, okay, so I, roguish goblin, I get that term roguish a lot. Rogue is also the class that I usually play in D &D. So I was like, that works. Yeah, it gets to the idea. And also like sort of rogue being sort of this idea of like going Beks to like the Robin Hood sort of. rogue archetype of, you know, someone, a commoner who is taking on oppressive systems and like, I was like, yeah, I'll hop onto that little like, reputation. You're like, topical right now? oh So shortly after, let's see, so college had me going, I'm gonna be an actor and then also a writer because I started publishing poetry and anytime I tell the universe, I'm not gonna do a thing. They're like, hey, bet. So I started realizing that like, I had my first couple playwriting debuts in college and I was like getting paid for publishing my writing and producing plays and so but was still like I'm an actor. Hmm. And so fast forward to out of college and past uh actor teaching in Ohio and I had a gig that got postponed because of nonprofit theater budgets, especially are shaky right now. So I had a gig that got uh postponed indefinitely for budget reasons and I was like, well, crap, I had a job and now I don't. So I was like, well, the school year is Beks in session. So all of my school friends who are still in school are right in town. I have this play that I finished. Hey friends, do you want to do a thing? My dad's, so like I got some space for free. My dad's church was like, yep, here's the key, keep it clean. uh And uh my friends are like, yeah, we'll do it for free. And I went, no, no. I don't know how much I can pay you because of no nowhere near independently wealthy. But like even if it's just I make you food, like you're getting something. Yeah. So I put together like I taught myself how to run a crowdfunding campaign. uh And our first day in the in the rehearsal space, the church pickleball group was was practicing. And so the church lady saw some people they didn't know, they came over like, hey, can we help you find anything? know, welcome. We told them what we were doing and they were like, can we, can we copy your posters? I'll take some to work and I'll do, you have a fundraiser. What's the link? I'm going to donate right now. Fast forward to like maybe two, three weeks later, we had enough raised mostly by Midwest Christians. to pay a bunch of mostly queer people $20 an hour and we didn't charge for tickets. That's amazing. That is amazing. And I went, okay, let's see if we can do this again. Got another show that was focused on veterans. Did it again.$20 an hour. Recorded the cast album, kept the show free. And then was like, okay, the nonprofit part of it is struggling a little bit because I wasn't able to get a ton of grants being under a religious organization. But. it was clearly like something the area needed. And I was getting support from people who couldn't make it to see the shows live who were like, can you, is there a way that you can record it? Like we would love to see like a streaming version of it. So I went, cool, I'm going to make this my day job. And so August 1st of 2025, I started Roguish Goblin Stories and building a subscriber base and working on just getting as much support as I can so that I can pay also be and also providing professional like paying theater work in an area that doesn't have a lot of paying work. um So yeah, that was sort of the roller coaster. That's amazing. Well, and it feels like more important than ever to create, I think, alternative systems, because like you said, some of the, I think some of the system that we have maybe become used to rely on are not as reliable for whatever reasons. Right. And I think that under this regime, we're going to see like more and more cuts to things like the arts, because they're not seen as useful in air quotes. And I put in air quotes because There is so much research evidence of how useful things like arts and humanities and language studies and community spaces are and all that they bring to communities, not just to individuals. you know, unfortunately, that is not the direction that uh we are in in terms of uh regime level. And so I think it is really important. to keep creating kind of alternative structures. And I love that. I know that you said you launched the first investor opportunity because you're really passionate about supporting trans artists because that's the other thing I know. I I know personally the opportunities for trans folks are shrinking even as a speaker, educator, trainer, not as many calls, not as many emails lately, uh you know, and lately as in since fall 2024. Yeah. words. And so I think it is really important to keep creating kind of our own spaces where somehow we have each other's backs and knowing that this plan your community, like your church ladies were like, let's do this Beks We'll get, you know, we'll get you donations and we'll, you know, put flyers around, which is beautiful. And so tell me a little bit more about like the big vision. Like if you, you know, if you could like. wave a magic wand and tomorrow you have exactly what you wanted. What's the big vision for roguish goblin stories? Yeah, ambitious, that's for sure. I... Oh yeah. Well, and it's like, I have never had... Wasn't expecting to get $20 an hour for the first one, and it went okay. Clearly that dream that felt massive was much more doable than I thought. So yeah, big vision is I wanna build productions, like entertainment spaces. that are also building around the community gardens and affordable housing and supporting Indigenous land stewardship. um Just because that seems like a helpful thing to um do. And also like how cool would it be to like go to like the outdoor, the local like outdoor theater space and like your concessions are like in the trees, like there's the apples, there's a washing station. Like how fun. It's beautiful. supporting local communities like food sovereignty. as a traveling actor who's also a pastor's kid, boy do I have some wild housing stories. so affordable housing that isn't catching fire, isn't full of mold, isn't filling your lungs with carbon monoxide are like, housing is, yeah. All things that would be nice. Yeah. Maybe even accessible housing for the people who need it. We're just like, yeah. so that when people come over to visit they don't get stuck in the front door. uh Yeah, so like the housing and being a United Methodist from the Midwest food are like very important. ah And also like because the outdoor theater being that Yakuman in space, like it... It seems unrelated at first to be like theater and housing initiatives and food sovereignty, what? But it's like, it's all that same world of that community building and like strengthening, know, knowing your neighbors and like theater feeds the soul and the mind so much, it might as well also feed the body. Oh, absolutely. I love it. we, you know, I know in Minneapolis, there's some I'm trying to think of the name of the project. I think it was the Picnic Operetta. I want to say that was like it's such a beautiful project. And, know, so you would go and you would get food, but there would be Auburn. It would be like in gardens or parks. And I'm pretty sure it is. I'll send you the link because I'm like, and I'll put it also in the description if people want to check it out. But um that creativity. It really is about community building. That's really what we're talking about, right? We're talking about sustainable living for the people who do the labor, right? Like housing that is like respectful of our human dignity. That's the way I think about it. You know, like when there's like, you know, that meets the needs of the people and our food, like things I shouldn't really, I feel be that hard in such a wealthy country overall. And yet we know that they're really hard because of lots of systemic reasons. So I agree that all those things are connected. And I think that's often what people don't realize that it's arts is not just for like upper middle class people. No, art is really what gives a lot of folks in the community a way to come together, a way to support each other, a way to celebrate, a way to imagine other possibilities, a way to educate kids. you know, engage elders as well. We have a lot of kind of theater locally now that have moved kind of further north, that kind of uh is in that mixture of amateur and professional theater, I like to call it, where the auditions are in the community, right? But there's also like professionally trained actors and the productions are beautiful. know, so I totally see that. How do you see the... in person like the housing, the community, the gardens, know, with native plants and Indigenous land stewardship go together with the online platform because it sounds at the moment it's really more of an online platform. So tell me about that connection. Because I think sometimes people think in very binary ways online and in person, but I don't think they need to be so separate. So I'm curious about how you're imagining that piece. Yeah, especially starting out, I'm drawing a lot of inspiration from like National Theater, MarquisTV, like the other platforms that like they do it's uh for non-theater folks what's called a pro shot, which is essentially they have anywhere from like one to like four, depends on the budget. Like they have camera crews either in the audience, shooting it with an audience, which is my preferred, uh or they like shoot a dress rehearsal uh so that you can stream a recording of the show. even if you can't make it in person, especially with COVID, a bunch of different tactics for how do we digitize. And then also the theory question of what is theater and when does it become film? you know, but yeah, so like recording the shows, I think there's also ways to do hybrid attendance for sure. um especially if the cameras are already there. And also doing regular, like I have gotten the privilege to do a lot of different kinds of playwright groups. So I've been in some that like met over Discord. I've been in some that were in person or some that like, you you walked onto a Zoom call and you were like reading the play out loud and then getting feedback. um And so like, that's a really good way to bridge that because people get to see online, okay, I'm calling it a play test, where everyone is aware that the play is still in development, this might be the first, second, whatever draft. ah And so the point is you're hearing it out loud, it's in service for the playwright, and then the audience gets to work with the... talk with the actors in the playwright afterwards and provide feedback and their reactions. So that's a really fun, because then you get people involved and they get to see how the play grows and then when it finally does get staged they're like, remember when? uh That is so cool. I love that. That's a great idea. it also is, yeah, that sounds like there are so many different ways that people can engage, you know, and so many different audiences that this would be accessible to. And you also have a podcast as part of Roguish Goblin Stories. Is that right? I see that you have a podcast, Art Lives Aren't That Interesting. Is that what it's called or? Yeah! Tell me more about that. I love hearing about other people's podcasts. So I'm like, yes, tell me more. Yeah, so as I am still like very early, very low budget, like I'm still like trying to apply for grants and like grow the subscriber base and the investors uh to be able to pay actors for those like fully staged productions. uh Everywhere I go, uh least one person is like, I need a dang memoir of like your life and also like what in the heck is like As a clergy household, we have some very interesting stories and some of them we can't share, but some of them have been already like part of sermon illustrations for years, like the time that I cut my own hair with a pair of safety scissors. uh Especially my daughter has been with me her whole life in terms of parenting. It's part of many stories I share when training and when writing books with our consent. But, you know, we often joke about it as like pieces of our lives are pretty public. I understand that. Right, yeah, and so my parents and I were talking, because my parents are there, I love them to death, and they are doing everything they're like, what can we do to help you, like, get this to the point where it can be your day job? And so I was like, you know, you two keep talking about how like, oh, you know, our lives, we were told all growing up that like, our lives aren't that interesting, we don't have anything that important to say. And I'm like, mom, dad. Do you realize how wild some of the things that we have been through are? And how encouraging that having, you know, being able to see Christian parents and their trans-Aro-Ace kid, that alone is so encouraging to so many people that I talk to. And so they were like, well, let's do a podcast. And so like we started a podcast about it. Yeah. I love that. What's the focus of the podcast? That you just talk about your lives, like basically, or how? stories from our life and we are trying to be very intentional about what stories that we tell and put out on the internet. um But the underlying focus and the underlying message is the same underlying message that's for Rougash Goblin stories, which is you're loved, you're not alone. And so bringing all of those stories of like, the dog being scared of the toaster and you know. What do you do when you're stuck in a space where you're very clearly not welcomed and you can't leave right away? Like that's one of the early episodes. And how do you hold onto, how do you continue to choose joy when everything is just falling apart? And just bringing all of those stories Beks to that, you're loved, you're not alone, you're loved, you're not alone, you're loved, you're not. I love that so much. think that now more than ever, we really need to remember that those moments of joy, those moments of connection, we need those. Like that is what nourish us to keep going no matter what else is going on. And I think it can be hard for people to remember that, especially if they're isolated or if they haven't experienced this kind of connection and community. So what a beautiful gift for your family to kind of give this to the world. That's fantastic. And actually fits well with one, I always ask all my guests at the moment, especially my trans non-binary gender experience of a guest, which is mostly what I shifted to focus on since fall of 2024. What is it that's kind of giving you nourishment or joy or comfort as we keep facing a lot of anti-trans sentiment from certain parts of the world? Yeah, I think um I definitely draw. have gotten much more intentional about making sure that my morning routine is I get up, I work out, and then I meditate. have some meditations that I have found sort of sorting through all of it and I've saved to my phone. I have that habit stacked onto that um tapping, which I just came across recently. um pressure point martial artist, I'm like, how have I missed this for so long? Because I know what all of these pressure points are. uh So having that as blocked off as I possibly can every morning that I'm like, and I'm not necessarily lifting weights seven days a week, but at least four days a week. And then I'm training it out with yoga and some other things for variety. But having that set time in the morning has done wonders the last couple of weeks. Journaling has really helped. uh Also, like, even if I can't, you know, because there's eight inches of snow on the ground, uh even if I can't go drive, you know, at least, you know, I have set up with a few friends that like we have a recurring uh like call in our calendars that like every month or every two weeks or every week we're getting on a video call and we're checking in on each other. uh You know, it doesn't replace the in-person connection, but it's definitely... better than nothing, especially in the winter. absolutely. love that. Yeah. And winter and where it's cold, like where you are and where I am is definitely a thing. But I love that you mentioned so many things that are so important and yet it's so easy to not prioritize, right? Movement and connecting with ourselves, whatever that looks like, whether it's meditation, whether it's like just having breakfast or sitting quietly or reading, right? Or connecting with people. Those are all things that we really need. And I think that often underlay stage capitalism is so easy to not prioritize that, especially during moments of stress. So I'm really glad to hear that you're prioritizing those things and they're bringing you nourishment. I also scrapped pretty much all the social media off my phone. I still have access to it on my computer because that's how I do a lot of my marketing, but I treat it purely as a marketing tool basically at this point and that has helped a lot as well. um now that I've gotten some of those self-care habits a little more ingrained, the next one that I'm adding is because I can get very excited about... I'm gonna be writing and doing all the things for my business and then like not take a break. So like the next habit, oh yeah. Especially when it's like something that I'm like A excited about and B also like growing into my day job. uh Being like I would like to have the income to support. But the next habit that I'm working in is having at least one or two days of just no devices. Because those are the days when I do, at the very least when I cut things off at five and like, nope, I am focusing on real life, real people. I think of like the movie Ready Player One, where they shut the oasis off, they shut the alternative reality, the video game off for two days of the week. And I'm like. Yeah. That's probably a good idea. We've definitely had some like no devices day in our family sometimes because I'm like, okay, no devices day or no devices night. Let's just hold like sit around and talk or read. And yeah, it's so important because it can be so easy to just disappear into our electronics nowadays. Yeah, that's so real. I love all of this. feel like I could keep talking and talking about, I want to be respectful of your time. If people, if listeners want to. towards your project or want to kind of see some of the plays that you've talked about, where should they go? Yeah, so I'll spell it out because sometimes auto transcribe does not spell my name correctly. uh case people are like, I'm listening. I'm going to look it up on Instagram right now. I always like to ask as well. Yeah, so you can find Roguish Goblin Stories at beksroen.org/rgs, which is B-E-K-S-R-O-E-N dot org slash rgs. That page is going to have a couple different options for you to be involved. If you have extra resources and you really want to help, like not just like, I'm bankrolling the productions and like helping get this off the ground, but like. you're getting to put names and faces to the people in the queer community and the artistic community that you're helping. I've intentionally designed the investors to be, uh there are different levels of engagement based on what you prefer, but getting that personal connection with the artists, like Q &As with the artists, getting like pre-show dinners for when we do in-person shows, know, getting to uh even If you have someone you're sort of kind of fond of and you want to name a character in the play after somebody, there's that. And that's that really, really deep impact where you're getting to put those names and faces to the people that you're helping. On that same page is also if you're just like, just want to see the shows and a little behind the scenes and I just need a community built by us and for us. that there's just an option to subscribe and there's uh two different tiers based on basically how much behind the scenes do you want. Yeah, that's fair. Ah, that sounds so fun. I hope that a lot of listeners check it out because it sounds super fun. And anything that we haven't talked about that you were hoping that we would cover or anything else that you would like the listeners or people watching if they're watching this on YouTube to know. ah Thank you for being here. Thank you for sticking around and for not giving up and for not letting all of the chaos numb you. It is difficult. m But one of the things that I'm trying to do with the stories is use, because theater is an excellent rehearsal for life. uh very true. using the stories to help us rehearse how to grieve and how to have joy and how those two grow together, right? Like, happiness is that fleeting situational, like, it comes, goes, it's much harder to hold on to. But real joy comes with and from and around the grief. And so being able to let that flow through is like really what I'm hoping people get from anything I say and any show that I do. And also it's really fun to make trans people and air and ace people the main characters and give them a sword. uh That is true. Oh, I love that so much. Well, I can't wait to see how Rogish Goblin stories grows. And I can't wait to see for that beautiful vision that you talked about of like housing and land and food sovereignty and Indigenous land stewardship and community and theater uh all kind of grow. I can't wait to like. read news that it's all happening and it's thriving and it's like a model for so many other communities maybe to follow. So thank you, Beks. Thank you so much for your time today. And dear gender stories listeners, I hope that you feel nourished, excited and inspired to explore the edges of your own imagination no matter what you do. And until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. Mm-hmm.