Black Men Embracing Feelings
As a licensed mental health therapist, the purpose for this platform is for men that's safe to express emotions in order to uplift and build stronger men. The real strength of a man lies in their ability to be vulnerable and not feel as if their identity is compromised. Here, we'll advocate for mental health awareness, spiritual growth and empowerment.
Black Men Embracing Feelings
Embracing Change: God Is Still Writing Your Story
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When life forces us to step outside our comfort zones, why do we as men struggle so much with the vulnerability that change requires? Transitioning through life's changes requires vulnerability, self-reflection, and community support as we navigate the fear of judgment, redefine success, and embrace new identities beyond our professional titles. This episode touches on the following topics:
• The challenge men face in stepping outside comfort zones when transitioning through life changes
• How our identities become intertwined with professional titles and accomplishments
• Fear of judgment and the recurring thought "what will people think of me?"
• Importance of having the right people around you who can provide honest feedback
• Developing effective communication skills during transitions
• Corporate identity crisis when leaving long-term positions
• Learning to trust the process rather than controlling every outcome
• Finding spiritual grounding as an anchor during times of change
• Navigating family dynamics and relationships during career transitions
• Redefining success as a non-linear journey rather than perfect execution
• Allowing ourselves to grieve past identities to embrace new growth
Join us in our monthly mental health support group for Black men on the first Tuesday of every month where we continue these important conversations in a safe space.
Let's stay connected - linktr.ee/blackmenembracingfeelings
Transitioning Through Life's Changes
Speaker 1And so, for anyone who may be struggling with transitioning into a new space or phase of your life, just give yourself some grace, because you may have to relearn how to exercise muscles that you haven't had to use.
Speaker 2Yeah, Well, at first for me, I learned who do I place my trust in right. So it's still continuing to place my trust in God, but also placing my trust in the God-given abilities and talents in the network.
Speaker 1Really try to check the ego and see it from a perspective of this person could be fearful.
Speaker 2All right, yo yo. What's going on, man? I just want to welcome you all to another episode of the Black Men Embracing Feelings podcast, where, again, this is a space for us to talk about mental health, advocate for mental health amongst Black men, covering just Black men's wellness, and you know what I mean. Just providing that safe space for us to talk about some things that we often don't feel that we can't right. So, for today, the topic that we want to talk through is just transitioning through life's changes. Right, like trying to transition through life.
Speaker 2One of the things that men pride ourselves on is having all the answers. But the truth be told, man, when we try to go through this process of change and try to step outside of our comfort zone, that blueprint or that game plan that we feel like we can execute on doesn't always fall through right. So we step into this place of, we step away from this place of comfort into discomfort, and this place of, we step away from this place of comfort into discomfort. And with the change process, it involves vulnerability Again, which is a word that we don't want to associate ourselves with.
Speaker 2So, for this episode, we're going to talk about how to navigate that, and of course, I got my good brother, brother Destrian Wells, on with me as well, so just want to introduce you right quick, let the people know who you are, of course, with your background and things like that, the Brethren podcast that you got going on. So, yeah, just tell us a little bit about yourself, man, before we dive into it.
Speaker 1Cool man. First of all, I appreciate you and this platform. I think the work that you're doing is obviously important for the community at large, specifically the focus, as you drill down into trying to increase the quality of mental health for men of color, which I think also strengthens our community and makes for better homes to help our, to help be better partners to grow our children. But, as Joe said, I'm Destra in Wales. A lot, a lot of people may know you from, know me from the brethren podcast. I'm also known as DJ in many circles, but I think the most important thing I am I'm a black man, husband, father. I have about 20 years in corporate America now, so the gray hairs are starting to creep in. Just turned 40 over the weekend. Yeah, man, it's just kind of. Yeah, man, it's better than nothing, bro, it's just kind of crazy, though. So what we do on our podcast, we try to take a holistic look at life, and so when we have an opportunity to come and partner with individuals like yourself and help expand the platform, I think it's a great space and opportunity, because so many of these things are interconnected and intertwined and, as you stated, you know no one has all the answers. So I think it's the collective genius of the group that we're trying to tap into, but also learn from the experiences of others so that we don't have to have that very expensive teacher, which is the experiences, those horrible experiences that unfortunately, someone has already traveled that way. But what can we learn from that so that we could advance ourselves without having to do that A little bit about the work that we're currently doing, man, and we can get into it with the transition piece.
Speaker 1But you know, I'm obviously centrally located here inside the greater philadelphia area and, uh, in delaware, but really I'm really focused right now in the transitional space for me, trying to make sure we create better ecosystems for our kids. And what does that mean? Right, so we put them in sports, we, uh, we. We want them to swim, be soccer, basketball, learn to be competitive Right, but I want them to learn to be collaboratively competitive, meaning they also need to have that awareness of self, how to help others.
Speaker 1Yes, it's a competition, but can we get there together versus a win lose, why can't it be a win-win? And I think it starts early, establishing good mental boundaries and spaces for them to express themselves and understand, and so part of what we're trying to do is bring the mental health piece onto the youth sports area so that they get used to having a sports psychologist around them. So they're building their team and their community early on so that the stigmas that maybe we carried into this space are alleviated. So, uh, we can. We can dive in anywhere you want to begin, girl that's because that's that's big man.
Speaker 2Just touching on that real quick. I was reading the book. It's called the true measure of a man and one of the things that they pointed out was just that, um, the definition ofhood. You know, often us men are living in a false definition of manhood that we were taught growing up, or at least the people that expressed it to us at that time, weren't really given the right definition of it. So he talked about the importance of honing that in at such a young age because we often as men, if we're honest, right, we're still trying to find that definition of it. And also, to quote reading Jason Wilson's book, the man in the Moment Demands, and one of the things that he mentioned is that, honestly, the definition of manhood really can't be defined, because then now you put yourself in a box but, most importantly, kind of what I hear you're saying is more of a cohesive, comprehensive, holistic, well-rounded, young, young man, right and, and so he can be in in tune with his feelings.
Speaker 2And it's not the you know what I mean Me versus the world type thing, or you know the I that's in team that we often create because we try to be competitive, we try to win. You know what I mean. Only competition is myself, you know. Forget about everybody else. I'm trying to win, right. I'm trying to score as I can Right.
Speaker 2But it's what you're touching on is trying to be able to do that and still be collaborative, right. Still think about others Right, by also still having that assertive approach of trying to win. But the definition of winning is not necessarily seeing how many goals that you can score, how many points that you can score, anything like that. It's how well have we done, how well has the person done in terms of being a positive influence to others while trying to keep that main goal in mind? So, yeah, I might have got this goal right, but what about everybody else? And then me trying to get that goal that I put others down in the meantime, or you know what I mean. We're not responsible for others, but we can still hold ourselves accountable to leadership.
Speaker 1So definitely want to right, there you touched on something that I was super proud of. So I have two boys. My wife and I have two boys, seven and three. And so our seven year old Dallas, he's very competitive in soccer, right, and he and I talked about winning and losing and what does that entail. And so he hits the lose and I said well, do you like lessons, though? Right, and the point I was trying to make to him was you're going out and he's been an extremely high performer for his team. That you're. I mean, he's done great, yeah, but I tend to.
Speaker 1I don't tend to talk to him about all the goals that he's scoring. I'm talking to him about the type of teammate he is. And when you score, do you see how excited your teammates are for you? That's because you're a good leader, right. And then what ultimately happens is that encourages him to do better, right. So, yeah, but want to be thoughtful about others, and I'm grateful to the parents that around them, because they're trying to instill those things into their kids as well. But for me it, uh, the best compliment that anyone has given him all year was not like oh my god, you had three goals today. Aaron pulled him aside and said Dallas, I really liked the way you lead this team and that's very deep because you know they were. They were getting cracked pretty good and you could see some of his teammates kind of down a little bit and he walked over and he just put him in a huddle and he told him follow me. And I mean it was a dope parent moment for me.
Speaker 1I'm like where does he get that from? And I think, unbeknownst to me. The same way, we're having this conversation on the platform. This has become a language or the style of communication that I've established with my friend group. Um, you've been one of them, but this is how you guys talk to me as well, right, and so he's around, men willing to follow each other, listen to each other and, like you said, brother Wilson Wilkinson said if I'll be more comprehensive man where I'm not right all the time, right, wow. And developing more comprehensive man where I'm not right all the time, right, allowing people I don't even look at it as people checking me anymore. They're helping me be more aware. You do realize you're doing that. You realize you're doing that and the thoughtfulness piece we were, you and I were together just sitting down casually talking, and years ago, if someone would have said that I offended them, I would have just said, well, I told you the truth.
Speaker 1You know what I mean. I definitely would have said that. But I think you recall there was a gentleman that stopped by and he was like, oh wow, that was offensive. And I waited for him to exit stage left. But I called the server over that was uh, sitting in there or or helping us. I said I wanted to just check in with you to make sure that you know any of the comments or uh commentary that we've been having, that you did not find any of that offensive, right. And she said, oh no, oh no, you know that's fine, but I think it's important to give that respect to people because you put that in the ethos and you also get that back Right. So that's part of that comprehensiveness.
Redefining Success Beyond Career Titles
Speaker 2Absolutely, man, absolutely, as y'all can see, man, this is why I got this brother on here today. Man, he's a well-thoughtful brother, accomplished brother, but most importantly, and what he prides himself on the most is just his character, like how he shows up his integrity, his influence, and not trying to be just that alpha male follow me just because I said so type of thing but he really is trying to be that transformational kind of leader. That's something that's established the bond that we have. Man, I've known you since yeah, since I moved to Delaware like 2012. So I've known you since then. So I really do appreciate, look up to you a lot, big brother, but we always look at ourselves on the same level. There is no pride or anything like that in our friendship and our brotherhood.
Speaker 2And for today, man, it's honestly just a continuation of a conversation that we had last week. So on a monthly basis Black Men Embracing Feelings we have a monthly call. It's a mental health support group, essentially right. So we have a monthly catch up or check in where we just get brothers together, virtually being on Google Meets and just talking, just rapping, just checking in with each other and the topic that we talked about and it happens on every first Tuesday of the month, right? So the topic that we talked about this past Tuesday's meeting was just about transitioning through life's changes, right, and you know you and I have a lot of conversations and we've known each other for about 12, 13 years at this point, which is crazy, but it's a blessing, because friendships like that last, right, so I've seen you go through many transitions.
Speaker 2You know what I mean, since I've known you. That's not including the ones that you've gone through before we met, right, so I've seen you go through many transitions, man, in life and just being, you know what I mean the leader that you are, right, the planner, that you are the one that has to you know what I mean Take care of his wife, take care of his children. And you I don't want to use the word pride, right, but you value the importance of executing a plan. 'll put it that way yes, right, but, um, some of the conversations that you had though it's just like it's all plans haven't been executed flawlessly. So I just ask you, man, like, as you've been going through various life transitions, man, what's, what's some of the? Um pain points that you've experienced, uh, and how has it shaped you to where you are today. Has your perspective on life changed?
Speaker 1in any regard.
Speaker 1That's a deep antidote question, I would say the reason why. So if you look at my IG handle, it says empower, engage, execute. And I think where I was before we go to college even high school, college and then going into corporate I was very much the individual contributor type. I'm going to do it excellent, excellently, and if you don't, that's on you. I got to get out here, I got to get mine. My path forward has nothing to do with what you decide to do. I'm going to do what's best for me and I've always, I guess, been a caring person and I cared about people, but I definitely put myself and my goals before everything.
Speaker 1Relationships with young ladies if you can't get on board with the program that I'm trying to run in terms of the race that I'm running, maybe we can't do this. And I think, again, going back to language, the immaturity in that statement is not allowing a person to communicate the space where they may be able to cover your blind spots and you can assist them. And why can't we go this road together if we have a common goal? So one of the things I had to do, point one, was communication. Just because I'm being honest doesn't mean that I'm communicating effectively, right. And then being the man that the situation demands is something that's critical, because the way I lead in corporate America is very different than the way I lead in my household or in my friendships. And so, for me, I think I did a lot of self-reflection when I noticed things around me started to break down and I was a single point of failure for it, right. So if I couldn't do it, no one else could. If I couldn't make it there, no one else could make it there. If I can't get this done on time, it's just me, right. And when you become a single point of failure and I hope you know, just for clarity not meaning that you are a failure, meaning that things that are attached to you don't work well unless you are in 100% control, right. And so for me, I think it was wearing on me. It was wearing on the friendships that I had Still had, great people around me, but I had to be in control. I had to do it.
Speaker 1But things started to break down around me Loss, like starting to lose parents, losing loved ones, watching the world kind of go to hell. From a corporate standpoint, 2008 to 2010 was really bad for a lot of people. I was doing fine because I was young and inexpensive, but I was watching people that worked 25, 30 years plan for retirement and then they look up in a matter of six months they have to work another 10 years to try to recover, or your wife is battling some type of illness, but this company is looking at the numbers and they just got to let you go. And I think the empathy came for me when I started seeing those things happen. Not to mention my organization called it management training for me and told me that I had the responsibility of letting those people go from the organization. And that was life changing for me, man, because I'm like you can give so much to an organization. Man, because I'm like you can give so much to an organization and take nothing away except the relationships that you've built along the way.
Speaker 1And so I think at some point after I got married and we started talking about having children, it changed my entire perspective on everything, changed my entire perspective on everything. I started thinking about the people around me, the relationships I had, because we live 3,000 miles away from our family. Where's that village? Have I cultivated enough relationships? Have I been genuine? Have I showed up the right way? Has my character, my integrity, have I done things in a way that I could be proud of bringing life into this world, being responsible for them but trusting the people around me? Because family is not here. The family is the community that my wife and I, ultimately, would build, and so I think that was the impetus to me saying I need to establish some principles that I live by in my life, that I can wake up and do every day, but they don't only serve me, they serve the people around me in the broader community. And so I thought about the things I wanted to do, whether I would be at the office, working in the corporate capacity, whether it be me running my own business or contributing to the community. And so that's why birth, empower, engage, execute. So I believe that my, my pure existence is to do one of those three things at all time Empower. If I can just give you an encouraging word, can I point you in the right direction? Can I be supportive in what you're doing? How can I assist you? How can I be a servant leader? So the empowerment is not for me, it is how do I empower the people around me with the experience, that I have the things I know and, ultimately, if I'm not sharing what I'm learning with you, I'm doing the community a disservice.
Speaker 1Engagement, you know that goes to the relationship piece. I realized that I talked to some people a lot more than others, but it didn't mean I didn't care any less. So I try to make sure, similar to what you were saying with our check-ins, I do a check-in with friends that I haven't spoke to in a while, instead of letting that time continue to linger. Even a corporate standpoint, the engagement piece. But I'm going to do it the way you want to. Some people don't talk on the phone, right cool. Some people have sex. Some people are never going to check a voicemail. Even if I called and left a voicemail, they're not going to do it. So so I had to ask how do you want me to communicate with you? So I also then opened the door to be able to share the way that I would like to be spoken to, so we can establish boundaries, respect the whole nine, just with the engagement piece.
Speaker 1Then, ultimately, going back to what you were saying about me before, it's so true, I'm so like execution driven. I used to start with execution, but now I'm like I lead with the empowerment and the engagement piece which informs whether we can execute on whatever we said or not, but at least we have a clear path that we communicated on, and I've simply learned that from falling down, man, and taking account, or having people around me that I could actually lean on and talk to and say well, we told you, that's not what the approach that you take Like man, you're acting too hard, bro, do I? You think everybody's going to do it the way you do it? Why not? They're not you, bro.
Speaker 1Everybody's coming from it with a different lens, and I think I had to develop not even a respect, because the respect was there. My trust level had to go up, yeah, and I had to increase my trust and allow it to not be something that, if it didn't work, that I was going to be disappointed. Right, so it's not going to always work, but that goes back to the lessons. But what could we have done better? And we, though, not not you, we, how can we? You know so, and I know a lot of people say it, but it's, it's true, it's not lip service, you go farther together, and I think those, those small lessons, prevented me from really stepping in it and blowing my life up in a lot of ways, like surrounding myself with people, that we're versatile, we don't always have to pull up at the bar, we don't have to rent the section out at the club Might call and say hey man, I'm going to do a hike this morning.
Speaker 1You want to catch up? We could get some steps in while we talk. All right, cool, I'm going to meet you there. Hey bro, I'm taking a mental health day from work today. What you got on your plate, have you checked in with yourself? I mean, it's so many facets of it, and I think that's why you have to be careful not to overwhelm yourself when challenges come your way. It's really about taking the time to process them, understanding what this might mean in your life. Yeah, what do you want to get from it. But more importantly, I think you also have to look at how does this not only impact me, but the people that are connected to me, and that's the comprehensive thing.
The Fear of "What Will People Think?"
Speaker 2Nah for sure, man, and one of the things that you mentioned is just like looking at yourself as that single point of failure. Right, and as men, we place a lot on our shoulders, right, so we got to have the answers, we got to have the plan. I can say, you know what I mean. That's something that we both know, that we hear a lot right, and that's asked right, what's the plan? What's the plan Right? Whether it's from dating, whether it's from marriage, whether it's from just in business, right, like in corporate space, all right, what is our yearly goals? What is our weekly goals? What's the plan? What's your approach? Right, it seems like everything has to be a plan and we place ourselves at the center of that. Right, because, understandably so it's all right. Where did the execution go wrong? The first thing, well, who was supposed to do this? Who was supposed to do that? You're absolutely right that that single point of failure is is understandable, but at the same time, like it's a lot of pressure in regards to that and as men, right, we, we are often and again it's going back to that book true measure of a man.
Speaker 2One of the things that he talks about is that that often most fear thought is what will people think of me. Yeah Right, if I don't execute this plan, what will my wife think about me? What will my girlfriend think about me? What will my kids think about me? What will the community think about me? And we're going through changes, whether it's transitions from career, whether it's just interpersonal changes with relationship, whether it's just personal changes in regards to just our growth. That thought of what will people think about me is you know, pressure makes diamonds but also bust pipes. Yeah Right, that can go either way. So I'll ask you, man, like how have you navigated, you know, just through life? Just that thought of what will people think about me. Have you ever felt like that sense of pressure? Like has that ever done anything to you?
Speaker 1um, I think it was probably one of the reasons why I became so emotionally detached, like going into my collegiate space. My mother was, uh, spent 35 years in the military. So if and I played sports basically my entire life if I didn't make a honor roll I was going to get pulled off. I'm not joking. If I didn't make a honor roll, I couldn't play. Yeah, I can recall the whole world. Where are you going to think of me? I made a, uh, I had all A's and I made a 79 in social science or something.
Speaker 2And.
Speaker 1I'm like the scariest thought was for me to take my report card home to my mom because no more. It wasn't. That wasn't about the okay, she may not let me play baseball for a month, or whatever it's like. What is she going to think of me? Because I attached her love and her support for me, for me being able to produce this outcome right, and she was setting a standard expectations, but we didn't have the language, and I certainly didn't have the language at that age as a child to let her know like it makes me afraid to come to you. I don't get exactly what you want. What are you going to think of me then? Because when I achieved this, I'm so proud of you, you're great, you're awesome. But in the space between me achieving that outcome, the questions that were asked was basically about are you on task? Do your homework, did you? Because the sum of those parts in her mind would equate to the outcome right, and so I was very loved and nurtured, but that made me look at life a certain way very early. So you have that for basically 10 years of school. Then you have that in college, because now it's well, if you don't have a 3.5, this company won't hire you. So when you walk into an interview with your resume, you're at 3.4 and you go. I wonder what they're going to think of me. So all these metrics that we have in our life, it definitely has impacted the way.
Speaker 1You know that I used to think about what people are going to think about me, but then I really had to, like I said, go through some things as I was maturing as a man, becoming more emotionally intelligent. I'm not so concerned what people are going to think about me anymore. I'm concerned about why do I think. Why do I care? What are the reasons behind why I feel that way? If that reason is valid and important, I place that in its proper place in my life. But if it adds no value to myself, my family, my friends and my community, then I can look inward now and go then why are you even worried about that? Because some things I'm just not going to be able to control. But I do try to place value on the things that I can't. So if I could be having a bad day, week or month, I can control how I treat and respond to others. So I don't have to worry about what you or wonder what they thought about me Because I was having a bad day.
Speaker 1The right people around me are going to say, hey, everything I do seems a little bit off. So again, I think, the better the people around you. That begins to fade a little bit in life. But that fear is always there because in a really, let's say, you're going through a really rough season, those things compound and then that feeling of fear and failure may cause you to become reclusive too. And if you have people around you that show what are you doing? What happened here? Like man, this is what I didn't want. Or if you have to have a conversation like, well, we were supposed to be here, but I don't think we're making progress, I mean, what if it was accelerated progress right around the corner? So I think the pressure is about time and it's about the desire to be fulfilled, based on whatever this plan or timeline we make, I think it's sometimes important to enjoy the process, and the process is different than the plan.
Speaker 2And that part is key, right, because a few things that you mentioned, man, is it's you know. One, how are we communicating, right? Two is, who are the people around us that can help ease that fear? Because what it comes down to is judgment. Yeah, right, how can we receive in that judgment and that criticism? Not everybody can really, you know, take, and what we will do is we just we overdraw, right, like, oh bro, I'm so right, I wouldn't be criticized by you. You know what I mean. So it's just like you know what I'm gonna. Just, I'm gonna just do this on my own. I feel like I could do this on my own. Nobody else around me is trying to encourage me, support me. Everybody's down to my ideas, my thought. And when you talk about process, right, because a lot of people are judging you based upon your outcomes, what you can produce, and that's often what we feel that's meant.
Speaker 2But as we have the right people around us, um, and open ourselves. You know what I mean up to failure, right up to disappointing people. I think that's that's the hardest thing, too, with change is like opening ourselves up to the fact that we might fail, open ourselves up to criticisms, but from the right people, right, right. We have to have interest in mind and focusing more on the journey and the process of our changes and not just the singular execution of we got to do this, we got to do this. I mean pressure, yeah, is inevitable, right, but how we surround ourselves with the right around, the right variables of people, how we communicate even ourselves what we need, the right variables of people.
Speaker 1How we communicate even ourselves what we need right, what we don't need because one of the biggest transitions for me, um, as you know, um, when's my last day at corporate before I go back? October, october, 2023. My, uh, my firm, did a global restructuring and I had been talking to you for some time that I felt, like you know, that change was probably going to have to come and I had started conversations with other organizations. But when all of this happened, I had a conversation with my wife prior to, just again, the planning, the preparing, just in case there was a shock to the system. I wanted her to know everything will be fine. I don't want you to panic. I'm not going to panic. Once we did the global restructuring and I was impacted by it and I away, we shook hands, everything was amicable.
Corporate Identity and Letting Go
Speaker 1That drive home in my car, everything you're talking about, was going through my head, because the first thing people ask you when they meet you so what do you do? And for over 17 years I've said, oh well, I work in asset management or financial services. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah said, oh, I work in asset management or financial services. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can become so attached to what other people believe, what you do, that you lead with that it can start to define you and if you have some success along the way, people start to identify you. That, if you have some success along the way, people start to identify you. That's their strength. You know, he's a young boy over there. Yeah, he's a vice president over there in this company. I started being fearful of that, because what happens when I'm no longer the vice president over there at that company? Next question people ask you, man, what happened? You mean, what happened had a 17-year run.
Speaker 1Global economy is getting tight. I'm not the young, inexpensive guy anymore. I'm that guy that they walked me into the room when I was a young kid and corporate and said, hey, you got to go, you're going to do a job for a third of the cost. So I didn't take it personally. But all those things you're talking about I definitely struggle with. Maybe those first two or three weeks. Just I'm not. I'm not going anywhere, I'm not not going out. So, hey, man, how are things going Great? Are you going to be at the conference next week? No, I won't be there Because we start to have.
Speaker 1I'm not going to say the engagement is not authentic, but we're so stuck in this corporate construct that most of the people that I'm around, if I go out, that's just talking about business. We're not talking about who we are as people. But I say, how are you? It's not same as hey, man, how are you? That's basically how's your year going? What does sales look like? So those things definitely were top of mind to me, but what changed is having that time away and then being able to reengage, because I want to ask you a couple of questions about some transitions for you as well. Yeah, I think some very valuable exchange for the people that are listening.
Speaker 1But what changed with me not worrying about that, the people that I surrounded myself with, we were all going through some form of change. Yeah, we were all going through some form of change. Yeah, and sometimes it helps to be able to talk about what's happening in your space, because we talk about being vulnerable and I think being vulnerable is getting open access and you have to trust that person with the access that you're giving them. Like, yeah, man, you know I'm out, I'm out at my other firm. First thing you told me was yeah, you can focus on your other business now. Go grow your. I'm out, I'm out at my other firm. First thing you told me was, yeah, you can focus on your other business now, go grow your other business.
Speaker 1I was like, oh man, I didn't even. I didn't think about it like that because I haven't even processed it yet. Oh, yeah, I've been running, I've been running the whole business for like 15 years. Because you, you get, you're not talking to the people that work about that, because you quote, unquote can't, you can't do that. Well, how much time you spending on the other job of yours. So, again, fear of sharing who you are being comprehensive.
Speaker 1But yeah, that was that's what it was for me man, being around people that they didn't care if I was the vp anywhere. None of them had ever approached me was like, hey, vp, how you doing, right, it's what up, bro, right, we're, we're doing this weekend. And that was dope for me to see that, truly, amongst our friend group and most of the people that I'm surrounded with, titles don't matter. We care more about who you are and how you treat people. Yeah, because if you're, you're an a-hole, I don't care what your title is, I don't want to be around you, yeah.
Speaker 1So that was good for me, but I want to shift it and throw it back to you because I remember having conversations with you, maybe over the course of a few years, where you were saying, yeah, man, it's starting to wear on me, mm-hmm, what do you think about if I? I'm like bro, probably I know I've probably said this let's make a plan. Yeah, that's exactly what you said. I still. It was probably like the third time you told me and this is why I'm saying sometimes we're gun, we're, we're gun shy, we're, we're gun shy. Um, on stuff like this, because it took you telling me that maybe three times before I ever said, bro, what, what about this, this role or this corporate construct starting to wear on you? What's bothering you about this? It was probably like the third time because I was sorry. I already want to go, he won't want to leave. Let's make a plan, let's get him over by. Let's save. Let's get a plan to save some money, let's do this.
Speaker 1When I finally asked, asked you about what it was. Do you remember what you, what you, said about? I got to get out of here? It was about you and your own mental health and what you needed to do for yourself. Yeah, circle, you're here helping people, and I wanted to bring that point up because we also get scared that people are not going to understand because we look like we got it together what it takes to just have a decent conversation. Sometimes you got to do some things. Decent conversation, sometimes you gotta do some things. So, man, what was, um, what was kind of your process of coming to a space where you're like, man, I gotta, I gotta, remove myself from this it was, um, the mental health aspect, man, and a couple things that you're saying too, was just that.
Speaker 2It's the same thing, man, I fear of what will people say? What will people think, right, do you have this yet? Do you have that, that money to even walk out, right, like, do you have this plan solidified? Right, like, what's your next steps? And I often found myself saying I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. And I didn't like saying I don't know because you mean you don't know or don't do anything yet until you know, right.
Speaker 2So it was just like being in a space, and this is why I value our conversations. It's because I didn't have to put on that mask to say or show that I have all the answers. That's a DJ. All I know is how I feel, right, that that I know for certain is that I don't feel as if I can give all of me to this, and by staying in this space, right, I feel like I'm losing myself. And one of the things and as we're talking about it, the word identity comes up, right, because we attach our identity to our success, to our titles, to our positions, because it's also safety right to our positions, because it's also safety, right. So it's just like I don't know what I want to do specifically, but I do right, and that's one of the things we've talked about is, bro, you do know, actually it's just a matter of you stepping away from what you've been in, what you've created, um, and the identity that's also been curated for you. Oh yeah, this space is Joe Joe's. This Joe's has this title Joe's over there doing this. So it's like we feed into that, right. So this is who I am, this was what's pulling me. But, at the same time, just because I can do it doesn't always mean that I'm supposed to and I'm meant to do that. So, stepping outside of that I'm supposed to and I'm meant to do that, so stepping outside of that, it was scary man, and it is a walk of faith constantly and that's been helping me to let go of the fears. I said help, it's helping me. But there's points where you know, in this space where I am now from corporate mental health and be honest with you, man, I miss a corporate paycheck, I do Right. And that was one of the things where I wanted to hold on to that for so long is because the consistency in that, that's something that I can count on, depend on. It's a space that I know. It's a space that I can navigate. Being in this mental health space, I have no idea I've been in the corporate space for like 10 plus years.
Speaker 2Right Now, to be in this different position, it's a whole new identity, it's a whole new approach, but at the same time, it's trying to remember, though you know one. What one. First for me, I learned who do I place my trust in? Yes, right, and what is it that I can place my trust in that the who has given me Right. So it's still continuing to place my trust in God, but also placing my trust in the God given abilities and talents in the network. Because now, when I express to people like my background and my career, it's like oh, so you come from different areas, avenues, you have a wealth of experience, and it's like full circle wise, that's God.
Speaker 2Because me thinking is like who am I to do this? What is it that I have to do this? I don't have a plan per se. I have an idea, I have a vision, but I don't have a plan per se. Have an idea, have a vision, but I don't have executionable steps. So, step one do this. Step two do this. Step three do this.
Speaker 2And I've learned throughout this process that you know what I mean. You won't always execute in a sequential order, right. Success is not linear in that sense, like you'll find yourself sometimes going in circles, or you'll find yourself sometimes maybe skipping the step, but then at that space you have to go back Right. So I'm learning throughout this transition, man, but it really was and is a faith walk that I'm still allowing myself to go through. But most importantly again is who do I place my trust in and what am I placing my trust in that? The who has given me and allowing my identity to consistently be judged in that, while also my character always evolving? Right, because it's, it's going to be things where, um, it's the term cognitive dissonance, right. It's like oh, joe's the good guy, joe's this, joe's that, yeah. Then, behind the scenes, I'm like Am I? I ain't doing that.
Speaker 1But here's what's. I used the word scared, what makes it difficult. Once you again. Once you identify me as this, this is my box Right.
Speaker 1I can't have a bad day. So, yeah, we talked about this. Where I felt so, I felt so bad for placing boundaries on people, I was priding myself you can come to me, you can come to me. Right After I had a conversation with you about some of the things that you're expressing now, it was like, dj, you ain't got to fix it. Yeah, I said you know what, tomorrow I'm going to turn my. I'm not accepting calls until 10 am.
Speaker 1I started realizing, bro, by the time I get help my wife, get my kids out of the house, it's only like 7, 30, 8 o'clock. I would have missed five or six phone calls that I haven't even said goodbye to my children and people are trying to be selfish. But when you find a person that you can trust and rely on, sometimes you break them right. Right, and that's when you gotta have an ecosystem. And I didn't mean to take you, of course, but that was something that I took from the conversation when we were talking about your transition.
Learning to Trust the Process
Speaker 1Generally it was like, man, I just got, I got a lot and I can't devote. I literally just can't devote myself to that. And when I started thinking about my plate man, I had so much from so many. Right, I was neglecting things that I didn't know I was neglecting. I had so much from so many. I was neglecting things that I didn't know I was neglecting. Number one myself sometimes, yeah, number two not realizing blind spots where, man, I am on the phone getting my kids dressed for school and I should be talking to my kids. Right, I'm listening to. It could just be something light or someone just needs a word of advice, but my kids deserve that focused, undivided time and I was feeling guilty about that, because what are people going to think? I'm supposed to be there for you, but what am I instilling into my kids? So? Well, dad gets me dressed in the morning, but he ain't talking to me. He ain't saying, hey, go burst the tube.
Speaker 2Hey, go do that the talks, like they have is with the iPad and devices. So what relationship are you building with them versus trying to attend to other fires, like you're missing out on these pivotal moments in their lives and your life as well, as a father, as you're growing in that, but also as they're growing up. So that's real.
Speaker 1One thing too, man, that I thought about while you were talking. We talk about lessons learned, like about blind spots, and this is for, like you know, anybody that might be listening. Let's say, like travel or long hours is a huge part of your role and you're in a relationship. Maybe you live with a partner, you could be at distance or what have you. I had to learn how to live at home all over again when I came out, because I'm going to be at home most days if I'm not out, taking meetings or what have you. My wife was accustomed to. Maybe I think you know what. He's going to be back. I was leaving maybe every Tuesday morning, or back Thursday night, friday. You know what, if he wants to turn the arrow 65, I'm going to leave him alone. He'll be gone on Monday or Tuesday and no arguing hey, I miss you so glad. How was your trip? You want to go out? Let's get a babysitter, get the kids. Man, my wife might come in now. Hey, I'm going out Because we've had to readjust and learn how to spend as much time with each other, because you're constantly away and that presents a set of challenges, because you can look at that and again start questioning things and having to feel like, well, I really know this person, or do we really enjoy each other's company?
Speaker 1Very fearful. When you've built a life together, you guys have kids together, so you have to rediscover things and realize, man, I was spending half my time away from home. And then you start seeing all the things that you were missing and I started thinking, man, was I being a good husband? Because I'm trying to make as much money as I can, but I'm leaving you here to figure out all of the logistics with these kids? And it's really gave me a greater appreciation for all the things that it takes to make a marriage or a relationship or whatever work.
Speaker 1And so, for anyone who may be struggling with transitioning into a new space or phase of your life, just give yourself some grace, because you may have to relearn how to exercise muscles that you haven't had to use, and what you may also realize is that you have more knowledge and skills than whatever you were doing actually required. So you work exercising those things. So, again, you're more than what that description from nine to five says. You are, yeah, and you don't really tap into your full potential, I think, until you get outside of that.
Speaker 2Outside the comfort zone, get outside that box and allow the process and the journey to train you, condition you, to help you learn some things as well as unlearn some things. But if we do it from a position of comfort and we control that process too much, man, I look at it like you're telling your trainer right, I don't want to do this. Let's keep the weight at 10 pounds. And your trainer is just like bro, in order for you to get it, you have to endure that pressure. Right, that's how you're going to build that endurance, that's how you're going to build that strength. But if you're telling your trainer, no, don't up the weight, don't switch this out, don't push me, what are you actually going to get from it? Right, because you're keeping yourself at a place of comfort. Right, and you're falsely rewarding yourself that you're doing the work. Right, and, yes, you are working, but you're busy doing nothing. You know what I mean. So when you allow yourself to be trained by the process, right, when you allow yourself to be, you know, pushed and pressured. Right, because again, again, pressure bus or mixed diamonds or bus pipes what side of that pressure do you want to be on? And you have to put yourself out there.
Speaker 2It's scary. It's definitely scary. It's like you're saying you got to learn, relearn. Some things work some different muscles that you haven't worked, you haven't worked. But at the same time it's trusting that you do have it. But you won't know that those, what those muscles, can be worked if you don't allow yourself to be in a space to where those muscles now have to be worked and to be utilized. And again it's, it's either said than done. You know, don't get us wrong, we still going through our changes, you know, in a daily one thing, I was thinking oh, because you're right.
Speaker 1you've been around me for a long time. You've seen, you've seen the dating phase. You've seen me getting there for as long as you know me. You and all my friends like you and your wife should have a reality show. I'm like there is no way, because what we present as a united front once we leave this house is no way. So people think they see a finished product. We are a constant work in progress. We love hard when we argue, we fight hard, but we try to fight fair and I'm learning to be fairer because I'm having conversations with people like you, people like the support group, and I think those things help form a healthier relationship.
Speaker 1But one of the things I was thinking about was having my wife come and join me on some of my segments on my podcast. She's very leery of it. She's like well, what if I'm asked a question? I said just tell the truth? She was like but what if you leery of it? She's like well, what if I'm asked a question? I said just tell the truth? She was like but what if you don't like it? I'm like. You already told me in private yeah, we're still right here.
Speaker 1So the thing is, I think, being open also making others feel seen, and I'm trying to do a better job of that. So when we talk about the fact that we ain't got it all together, all you gotta do is just go talk to whoever the partner in that person's life is. I'm trying to do a better job of that. So when we talk about the fact that we ain't got it all together, all you got to do is just go talk to whoever the partner in that person's life is, absolutely, because they get the best and worst of you Like oh he sound good, right. Oh yeah, he said that he present.
Speaker 2Good for sure.
Speaker 1Yeah, but that's the thing Like you said it the thing like you said. It's definitely easier said than done, but also I'm a believer that you have to speak it too, right? So the more you speak it, the more you talk about it. There's a greater sense of accountability than just avoiding it, right? So I know I need to get better at my time, right? So if I'm gonna lie to myself and not do nothing to improve getting better with my time, chances are I'm cheating the people around me because I'm telling you I'm going to do something that I'm really not going to do. And who's going to help you through that, unless you say you want help? A lot of times, people don't know how to help us, us. So one of the things, um, one of the things that we've been doing, that we've, um, we've got a book, uh, thank you, thank you. I can refer to the book. It was uh, talk to me like someone you love. There are so many gems in that book about basic communication that we think we excel at that. We don't.
Speaker 1And one of the social cues, or mental health cues, is that self-regulation is an important piece. So you may upset someone by simply saying I hear you, but I don't know what else you want me to say or do right now, but that's how I would typically say it. I don't know what else you want me to say or do right now, but that's how I would typically say it I don't know. I don't know what else you want me to say. Right, I hear you and I need some time to think about the way. So just different, saying the same thing and trying to change it, yeah, becoming more aware, like just just saying I heard you, yeah, I hear you, yeah. And when I started doing it, it was like so you upset, you shutting down.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 1I just want to make sure when I open my mouth to you, I'm disrespectful. Number two and for a lot of folks especially, I know some people might hear and go it just should automatically be. Man, when you're upset, your tone can be more disrespectful than cursing, yelling or fussing. That's how you get it. I was never a big believer until I started getting the treatment that I was given Hold on.
Speaker 2Hold on, you said what and I'll add this to it man as well because you were also experiencing some things, while you were also experiencing some things, while you were also going through some things, right?
Speaker 2So much like again, with transition, transitioning through changes and, um, you know, relationships and communication, like being such a key part of it is, how do you navigate through relationships, hold yourself accountable, emotionally regulate?
Finding Spiritual Growth in Transition
Speaker 2And it's like I'm experiencing these things myself and when you talk about emotions, it's just like we want to explode, we want to project, right, because we've already got so much going on. But this is that partner that I want to be in my life, that is vital to this change process. Right, it's important for me to be able to regulate and communicate to them that, hey, I want to hear what you're saying right now, right, is it all right if we circle back to this? Is it all right if you give me some time to think about it? Because right now, I want to give you. You know, do you know what I'm going through? Like, look, I ain't got time I don't want to talk about. We got our own thing going on, but at the same time, we can't bleed on our partner. We can't turn our partner to our enemy, but I think that's a part of when you talk about transitioning.
Speaker 1Transitioning is not just a career thing, it's not just a job thing, it is again comprehensive thing. It's not just a job thing, it is again comprehensive. So, transitioning and transforming the way you communicate because you want, you want better results and like, for just for me, the whole idea or the fact that in the on the onset, I didn't control this transition, it wasn't one that I initiated. I had to sit back because, you know, while I was very happy with the work I did, how I walked away and I felt like I was treated fairly and my family was taken care of on my way out Can't be mad about that at all and then at some point during the transition, my ego kicked in. Maybe a few, maybe a month or two, got kind of gotten through the honeymoon phase of man. I got all this time with my family, I'm working on my business, I'm fake playing golf like I know what I'm doing, like the time was just abundant. Right, get through the holidays. Everybody's jovial man. You've never been home for the holidays, uh, like this you typically have to go. Top of the year comes. Now you gotta, you gotta get back out there, get at it. You start looking at next step and phases. I had never been told no so much Going through the process of interviewing and things of that nature.
Speaker 1I had no problem getting in the door, getting the interview, but my ego said hold on a second, I'm overqualified for this. And you keep telling me no. Then I started thinking about and this is again all ego. Right, I know I'm better than this, but Right, sometimes your ego is undefeated. Yeah, start looking at who got let go from my organization and who they kept. Mm-hmm, I'm like so you think you know what I'm saying? Like the competitiveness, really man. So you think you know what I'm saying? Like the competitive man. So that was when I was in my head, because every interview I started going to, I'm like do I need to tone it down, dumb it down or whatever? And I had so many people just tell me we'd love to have you, destrian, but I mean, you already were vice president at your last company. This is a systems vice president's role. I'm willing to come in and do the work, but we just don't think you're going to stay long.
Speaker 1So what I saw as a gift in my life before could be a curse, because Mace was talking about this and me you had said we were kind of chalking it up the same attributes really enjoy and like about you happy or they hate them are the same ones that you become fearful of because that becomes the dichotomy of a person, your view through that spectrum. So he's strong, he's smart, he builds great relationships, he does this, this, this. Well, those are all the things you want in this job. But you know he was a vice president at his last company. Either that's not a challenge to the person in charge or do you know that? So things can be leveraged against you both ways and I think it's important that we understand things can be leveraged against you both ways and I think it's important that we understand.
Speaker 1Really try to check the ego and see it from a perspective of this person could be fearful because my skillset says that that very thing that I'm thinking, my ego, might come out and show up in the workplace or wherever else, because I've been identified as these things for so long, or because my measure of success was to reach this goal or level or what have you.
Speaker 1So I think I could really be careful in the transitioning process of acknowledging the fact that it's almost like a grieving process too. You're going to go through various things, yeah, and you know, until you get to a place of acceptance and you're ready to grow, then the transition is just like you said. You may plateau, yeah, for a while, until you let the ego go and say, okay, okay, trainer, go ahead and throw those weights. So I know it's gonna be a, it's going to be a little bit harder to pay, but prove it. And now you know. But, man, it was definitely tough to start thinking and you start comparing. Comparison is definitely the thief of happiness, and so you got to really be careful with those things. So during your transition, whatever it is, just understand it's going to be a process and sometimes things have to die to be reborn.
Speaker 2And that part man, death to ego. You know what I mean. If you call that what it is, it's a grieving process of our past selves. It's the fear, because we don't know who this new person is becoming. This new person is becoming. We don't often know either what this new step or this new experience or this new level of success is going to require of us.
Speaker 2So it's just thinking back into scripture. You know what I mean. You know all things work for the good, right. All things work for the good of those that are called according to his purpose. Right, and the thing about it is that when we're called, we're not called because we're qualified. You know what I mean. We're called really because we're unqualified, right, and it's not about us, it's about him who gets the glory, right, and the fact that we're unqualified should give us even more of that. You know what I mean, like rejuvenation, you know grace, humility, purpose, because who am I to be chosen to do something such as this?
Speaker 2And that ego say, well, you are this person, and then X, y and Z is not happening. So maybe I got to be flawed. Now, right, there's weaknesses that are being highlighted, because if we focus so much on perfection. We also focus so much on our weaknesses, right, and then, as our weaknesses are highlighted, that deters us, you know, from really going towards what it is that we need to, and it also deters us from learning the things that we need to, or unlearning the things that we need to.
Speaker 2So that grieving process, right, allowing ourselves to let go, let go of our past identities, so that we can embrace newness, that we can embrace change, that we can embrace flaws, and understanding that, yes, you know what I mean that failure or that flaw is what got us to this point, so that we can look in the mirror and see, all right, what needs to be changed, what needs to be adjusted, and embracing that process, embracing that journey. But if we hold so much to the ego which is often false, right and if we hold so much to our pride, you know, because that's essentially what it is, pride and ego, they are, you're a synonymous, yeah. So, once we allow ourselves to let that go and trust the process and trust, you know, the who, which is God, there's so much more things that we can do and refine ourselves. And easier said than done, though, because that ego and that pride has got us to such a point. Right, it's like now we got to change again. It's like again.
Speaker 1Like this hurts, like this is it does in so many ways, man, but like finding joy in in the little things in life and not just always trying to hit the home run right. My goal in life is the bat for average now, like the home run. Some home runs will come, but you bat for average. Um, and one of the things that you said a few minutes ago you were talking about being unqualified. I think we've all experienced things professionally where I really don't know how that person got that Well, they for you to know, right, but sometimes we know it's who you know, whatever. But going back to you talking about the who and who you're doing it for and for and the talents and gifts that you're using. So when I look at corporate nepotism that's given by whatever man or woman that's in charge, I told one of my boys a week or two ago I think I'm at a place in my life where I'm starting to experience spiritual nepotism or things that I'm not really asking for showing up for me because my steps are being more ordered offer the offer that I have on the table now.
Speaker 1I didn't. I didn't know anyone inside the organization and uh, it was. It was at random and it took them three days to to come back and say, okay, we think, we want, to want to move forward and give you a shot here. I wasn't expecting that. But spiritual nepotism, like, okay, you've been tested, you've been through enough of that. Here's an opportunity. At a start, it may not be everything you want, but this may free your time so that you continue to do the work that I'm placing in front of you. I'm going to give you pieces of what you want back until you're in a place where you can handle it all. I'm looking at things with more gratitude because spiritual nepotism is going to take me a lot further than what corporate nepotism is going to do for me.
Speaker 2What she're saying. Man is just grace, grace and favor. That's all that is, man. Favor is not fair. Right, once we also understand that favoring God is not earned right, there is no. I got to do X, y and Z first before he blesses me.
The Power of Communication in Change
Speaker 2Yes, you know, there are things that we have to be responsible for, hold ourselves accountable to, of course, being a good person, being fair, not judging those types of things, but at the same time, if God is going to bless you, he's going to bless you, but what we do with that, that all makes the difference. How we continue to put him first makes the difference. And favor is not fear, if people are honest. A lot of things that people have walked into that they don't deserve and they're not qualified for, but that's grace and God's favor. Now, how we continue to turn our lives towards him, you know what I mean. That makes the difference right. Your transformation of your character, your spiritual growth right, your offerings back to him right. Your transformation of your character, your spiritual growth right, your offerings back to him right. That makes so much more of a difference, man. So, like you're saying, with the spiritual nepotism, but it's at the end of the day, man, it's God's grace in his favor and allowing that to be a key driver in any kind of change that we go through, not allowing ourselves to feel like we're less than when God blesses us.
Speaker 2The reality is we're not perfect, right? So are there people better than us? Of course, of course, man. But I'm not going to let my ego get in the way and say, oh, ain't nobody in this room better than me, right? Because now, that's a false sense of pride. Nah, there's people better than me, but I'm blessed. Nah, this people's better than me, but I'm blessed. Right? As for me, god has for me. I'm not in competition with anybody. You know what I mean. I hold myself accountable to how I show up. What everybody else is doing is not my business, right?
Speaker 2So when you allow yourself to be free from the judgments of people, you allow yourself to be free from the fears of failing, because who the son sets free is truly free indeed. And God came of failing, because who the son sets free is truly free indeed. And god came, jesus christ came to give us life, and life more abundantly, and that life is through his freedom, right? So when we allow ourselves to be free in the process of change, right, god is going to bless. He told moses bro, what's in your hand, use that, that's it.
Speaker 2And he was in the between a rock and a hard place. He's trying to, you know, escape pharaoh. He got people around him. It's just like yo, I'd rather be free, I mean, I'd rather be a slave than to be out here in this space where going forward seems like a an immovable object. Going back, you know they chasing me. So my past is chasing me. So why not I dance with the devil? That I do know. Right then, try to be in this space, but but if God is leading you somewhere, allow yourself to be free, and that's through giving your life to him and letting some things go.
Speaker 1It's, whatever you have for me, I'll walk into right Releasing that need to have a fully vetted and thought out plan. It's key to transition though.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, because now that you bring up a few scriptures, I don't recall anyone perishing from a lack of a plan. It was a lack of a vision and knowledge, and you can't you really can't develop a plan without those two. Like you said, now I don't have a fully ready plan, but I got a vision. That's why you end up with people in the corporate construct that can't do your day-to-day job, but they have a vision for where things should go, and then they use your skills to help get them there. But they typically sit on top of this pyramid that we create because they can see. You got to see it before you can do it and you might have to have some people along the way that comes along and joins your team or your friend group, but it's going to be their talents that help get you over the hump, not necessarily always your own. You got to take that assist, sometimes from people. I'm learning to also be better at that as well. I'm going to take the assist. I don't need to be a single point of failure. I don't need that. We don't need that. Actually, I'm hoping that the conversation that we're having helps provide, or at least frame, some perspective on what two friends can just talk about on a day-to-day basis, and it doesn't have to be an hour, five, ten minutes. But when you incrementally build, you get to a space where you can have conversations like this, where it doesn't matter where the conversation goes. We're going to be comfortable, supporting each other and talking through it and knowing that we both understand that transition is only a work in progress. And because we've agreed that we always want to continue to improve and progress and when I say man, I'm going through this in my transition some people say you still transitioning? And I'm going to be yeah, you know what I mean. I'm still trying to get better, I'm still trying to improve, I'm still trying to learn, I'm still trying to increase and enhance my knowledge so I can be better to serve my people Right. I can be better to serve my people Right, to serve them, not control them, but to serve them. Try to do it in a way that helps push them in a direction that they say they want to go, that they say Right. So that's really why I appreciate being able to catch up, because when you, when it has to be a bunch of bravado every time you talk to someone, that gets stale and, yeah, it gets really stale as you mature because I don't need to be tough. I need to know what I can be doing to improve my kids' lives, like I need to know what I can be doing to improve my kids' lives, like I need to show up better for my kids.
Speaker 1I found myself getting getting upset with him because he he wrote on the wall. I know you, what were you doing when he was writing on the wall? Well, I was on a call. Okay, he's probably bored, wanted some attention. Yeah, but he shouldn't have run the wall. Would you have taken that call later?
Speaker 1Probably, okay, sounds like both of y'all have some culpability in that. And so when my kids act out, I mean I'd be, I'd really be wanting to be like the strong Southern parent. But when I talk to them, they strong southern parent. But when I talk to them is tip they? They typically have a reason, even if it's not good.
Speaker 1But I'm teaching them to communicate why they do the things right and that's a part of making sure that, uh, when they're, when they become men, that a whole man is showing up for somebody's partner, whatever they decide to choose. But I just see my life in a spectrum where it's so much bigger than me now, and so if I'm not doing the things to improve myself, how can I help sharpen them? In this ever-changing world, where your ability to use your words are going to become more prevalent than ever going forward, and your ability to understand your feelings are going to be more prevalent because of the confines and the advent of the enhancements around social media, societal pressures, all these new norms that are going to be established, societal pressures, all these new norms that are going to be established. We really need mentally strong and healthy kids and adults that can create the environment to push the conversation absolutely and, as always, bro, definitely appreciate.
Speaker 2This is honestly just insight to our conversations that we just have every day when we get a chance to talk, but it's Definitely appreciate. This is honestly just insights, our conversations that we just have every day, um, when we get a chance to talk, uh, but it's, it's. You're a very insightful brother. Um, we wouldn't be friends, brothers, this long, um, if it wasn't the case, you know, similar with myself, man, we don't allow so many people, um, into our circle, into our circle, into our lives and share our vulnerabilities because, as we expressed here, not everybody can be trusted with that. So we got to be able to guard our hearts as we strive to stay close to what God has for us to do. And that's one of the things as well is that we do believe that ultimately, at the end of the day, it's for God to get the glory, it's for God to be praised and not for it to be like, oh, let me first, you know, give honor and praise to DJ. It's not about me. Like you're saying, as long as the person is achieving, their goals are growing into themselves, you know what I mean. Like, that's what matters most is how can we each um, motivate, encourage, um, you know, engage, execute, empower um others right Um. That that is that is key. That is key, um. So I appreciate you for joining them.
Speaker 2Uh, and for those that were listening, you know, the prayer is that this is something that you know has touched your heart, has blessed you. As you know, we continue to strive to just be better men. You know what I mean Iron, sharpened iron, and that's that is a true statement. But most importantly, man, whatever you're going through, stay the course. You know, trust God, trust what God has given you, trust his process. Allow yourself to let your ego go, you know, grieve those previous identities of yourself so that you can walk into, um, the newness of you, um, and allow yourself to be free from old thoughts, old paradigms, old behaviors. You know that's not serving you at a time where this version of your, your identity, your existence is needed, um. So allow the change, man, to take its course.
Speaker 2It's not easy, it's not comfortable, it's not supposed to be comfortable, but again, man, pressure makes diamonds or it can bust pipes. So which side of the pressure do you want to be on? Hold yourself accountable to those actions, behaviors, you know, just show up your full self and honestly, man, with God in control and God at the center, man, there is no such thing as failure, it's only lessons learned. It's only lessons learned, man. So continue to learn. So We'll definitely be putting more out in regards to this, you know.
Speaker 2Also, I encourage you to take a listen to the brethren podcast, where you know it's it's it's not only Mr Wales, dj on there, but few others other brothers with a wealth of knowledge and experience, and you get that, that, that bread right. It's breaking bread. You know what I mean and that's essentially the core of it. Let's break bread and let's talk Right. So you'll get a wealth of knowledge from just personal experiences, from family experiences, from corporate experiences, financial experiences, financial literacy, financial knowledge. They talk about a wealth of things, man. So I encourage y'all to tune in to that podcast as well, and we'll keep it going from there, man. So y'all,