Black Men Embracing Feelings
As a licensed mental health therapist, the purpose for this platform is for men that's safe to express emotions in order to uplift and build stronger men. The real strength of a man lies in their ability to be vulnerable and not feel as if their identity is compromised. Here, we'll advocate for mental health awareness, spiritual growth and empowerment.
Black Men Embracing Feelings
Bridging Faith and Mental Health Part 2: Spiritual Growth Through Therapy
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Part 2 of our discussion provides further insight into how spiritual healing, personal growth and transformation takes place in the therapy space. We tackle the profound question: "What does a church with healthy counseling look like?" by exploring the parallels between therapeutic principles and biblical truths. From David's raw emotional processing in Psalm 51 to Jesus demonstrating emotional regulation throughout his ministry, the Bible showcases numerous examples of mental health concepts.
Are you struggling to reconcile your faith with your need for mental health support? This conversation offers permission and encouragement to embrace both paths as complementary aspects of your healing journey. You don't have to choose—the fullness of your wellbeing includes both your spiritual and emotional health.
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The Value of Therapy in Faith Journeys
Speaker 1So at the end of the day , when therapists , or when I say I'm proud of you , like I seriously am , like I'm celebrating you because you went out there and did the hard work Right , you went out there and had those hard conversations . You went out there sick and tired of being sick and tired or didn't feel like getting up , and I'd say not many people know what it takes to get up every day and put on your best self . My challenge to you would be like ?
Speaker 2what does a church with healthy counseling looks like ? What does a church with the marriage of the skill sets that you've learned , that you've educated yourself , with , that you become literate and then become proficient in ? How does that church look , Now that we have emotionally healthy people and we're also getting spiritually fit .
Speaker 1There is redemption for those that feel broken , right , but it comes from that confession , it comes from that acknowledgement , it comes from just owning it . But , most importantly , when it comes down to men of faith and people of faith , it's going back to God , not feeling as if whatever we've done is too damaging , too destructive that we can't go back to him . When it comes down to therapy , it's um , it is , I always say , your awareness is key . Your awareness is your compass , right ? If you're not aware , aware , it's hard for you to have any sense of direction of where to go next , right ? So when it comes down to , again , men , we , we often fail this test a lot . Me , well , I speak to myself , I fail this test a lot . It's like , joe , what do you want , do you need ? I don't know , I don't know . Yeah , right , so when it comes down to therapy , it's really asking yourself what is it that you need ? What is it that you're looking for ? Um , because , I've mentioned before , it's like I've had a male therapist for a time where it's me working out my identity as a man , right , coming into , almost coming to this , but like graduating college , right , and then getting into the corporate space and just moving . Major life transition . Yeah , right , like , how do I manage this ?
Speaker 1And then , when it came down to just acknowledging where I was at in regards to relationships and acknowledging , like I'm not showing up the way that I need to and it's impacting my partners in ways that I don't like how I'm representing myself and I don't like the impact . I don't like how it's hurting them , I had to go back to therapy to talk with the Black woman in regards to like , how do I do this emotional navigation ? I'm failing at it , right , I'm failing at it horribly . So we're I'm hurting those that I'm engaging with , right , so understanding , you know , maybe I want a therapist that has a background in corporate or I want a Black therapist specifically because I'm Black . I want a woman therapist , a female therapist , because I'm a woman .
Speaker 1I want a male therapist because I'm Black . I want a Black male therapist because I'm hoping that you know what I mean . So understanding , right , who it is that you feel can be that representation , for you know what is it you're trying to get , but it is to help yourself , though I'm not looking for a Black male therapist to validate me and tell me that everything that I'm doing is right and I'm never wrong . And let me talk to this brother because he's going to be on my side , because me and my wife is going through things , and I need to hear from him and tell me , man , a man has some support , because I'm not getting like , no , it's not going to work that way . I would tell a husband bro , you are the problem Right . These things , these behaviors are contributing to the problem right . And I've had female , um women say like I'm looking for a male perspective as they're working through relationships right .
Speaker 2I'm just amazed at how different , how important language is now too . Right , like even you self-correcting yourself you're like , yeah , you're the problem . No , you're contributing to the problem .
Speaker 1Right like telling a human that they're the problem , but no like no , you're not the problem , you're a problem I'll say it that way because professionally , therapeutically , my words , oh yeah , as I say sticks and stones , they break my bones . The words never hurt . That's , that's a lie . Words hurt how you deliver . And also me personally , like I gotta be mindful of that too , because me trying to be careful with my words is are you being sincere in it ? Are you being honest ? Are you being truthful ? So I really do try to be cautious with my words , but depending on who it a buck , I'm gonna keep it real . This is what's going on . But also I'm careful of telling people what they need to do .
Speaker 1I always try to position it as it's important to be mindful , right , or you may want to consider because , again , when you , when you talked about right , like the authority , the identity , right , it's like who are you to tell me what I need to do ? It it's like , nah , you might want to be mindful , right , you might want to think about this , you might want to consider this , but ultimately , you have a choice to make . Right , you have a choice to make and the route that you want to go . At the end of the day , you have to live with your decisions . So I'm here to help . I'm not here to tell you I'm not here to fix your life . I'm not here to fix you . I'm here to give you some guidance . I'm just here .
Speaker 2I get where you're going , though , because , yeah , because and that kind of led me to , leads me to one of my questions I have for you , but it also just referenced into , like I , your , your , your specific way in which you navigate , using certain words you know , even biblically , like death and life and the power of the tongue , and those who love it will eat of its fruit , and so , like you have , I always love how people go life and death and the power of the tongue . I was like no , every time somebody says I'm like , no , it's death and life , I'm like why am I such a nerd ? But , like you know , the things we say do have power and does have impact .
Speaker 2Um , especially when you're in an authoritative position , as a therapist or as , uh , someone who you , who people , view as oh man , like , oh , luke got his stuff together .
Speaker 2He'd been , he'd gone to church since he was two years old , he'd been a pew baby , he had pk . He a bishop minister practicing to open his own church . He got pop-up service online , like he do it at all , and it's , like you know , like people are ascribed to you a certain level of authority , so you really have to be careful how you speak into them or how you speak to them , or what you speak and what you speak to them , because it's like , like if my therapist was like , oh , you're the issue , I would look at them kind of crazy , but again , you navigate relationships based off of trusting boundaries and how you could do that . But for me that would , that would be , it's the term . I'd be like , okay , well , you're no longer my therapist , since I , since my , since my money no longer equates to any value to you and I'm a problem , like , and that's , but that's me , but then I will pop in , I feel like .
Speaker 1But that's me , you know . But Greg , why ? Why is that impacting you so much for me to tell you that you're a problem . Let's explore that .
Speaker 2Yeah , that , yeah , and I would , and I would go . My identity is in christ , not in whatever man said that I am , so I wouldn't let you know that we're no longer people sitting here , that's okay . Like you'll have another client and I'll have another therapist and we can do that , right , and then like it'll be fine , and it was like I won't feel no way about it , all right . So the next thing but I do like this , and this will at least my thought how do you not get a god complex being a therapist ? Because you described being in the car , you described navigating , you described all these , like all these things in which it kept giving me biblical images of how the holy spirit is in our life , or how god is in our life , or the things that Jesus , jesus came to do for us . Right , like , so you're , like , you're , you know , you said you were in a car like the Holy spirit is helping us navigate through these things . Right , like , giving us direction . It was like , and that voice of authority and power , like , even like the same thing with a preacher . Right , like , it's very much aligned this way and aligned this way . And it blows my mind , but I didn't even think about it until in this moment , but like the alignment of how , how do you not take responsibility for someone's healing or growth anything ?
Speaker 2Because I noticed the thing that my therapist does he doesn't say , he doesn't go man , I'm glad I got you through that . He says man , I'm so proud of you that you were able to get through this and you were able to identify these things . Meanwhile , he he set it up Right . He put me right next to the rim , right . It was like right , it's like LeBron , it's like Luki getting the pass to LeBron . Right , he set him up right by the rim and he , like , it's such an easy thing . You just slam , dunk it home and you can think for a second that if it had not been for your past , none of this would ever happen . But LeBron was still LeBron before Louie got there . I'm still how do you navigate ? Not thinking that you are the sole purpose or the conduit to them ? Well , you , the conduit is fine . That you are the sole purpose or the conduit to them . Well , the conduit is fine . That you are the reason that this person is experiencing some kind of breakthrough or healing .
Speaker 1Because I'm not the one doing the work . Truthfully . I can say whatever in the therapeutic space that may sound good and may make you feel good , but at the end of the day , you still have to go out in the world and do it Right , like I would tell my clients and I would self-disclose . I'd be like I'm not telling you something that's from a book . I'm telling you that it's easier said than done Right and be truthful . I struggle with this area just as much as you do and me . Sharing this with you is helping me too . So it's one keeping in mind . A therapy space is not about me . What I acknowledge that it feels good when you see clients win Absolutely , and sometimes I'm just like yo . I can't believe I said that . It feels good when you see clients win absolutely , and sometimes I'm just like yo . I can't believe I said that I actually did sound good .
Speaker 1Let me write this down and put it in the book , right . Right , let me write this down , but it is at the end of the day , and this is why I'm careful in how I say things , because at the end of the day , the client has to put that into work , right ? I'll tell some couples I'm not here to convince you to stay married . I'm not here to convince you to separate Right . To stay married is a challenge . To separate is a challenge . Right that I am not going to live through . That's good Right .
Speaker 2My pastor calls it my pastor would say there's two hearts , Choose your heart . Right , so my pastor calls it . My pastor would say there's two hearts , Choose your heart .
Speaker 1Choose your heart , choose your heart , choose your heart Right . Like I don't have to go . I'm not the one yes , I got my own things after this session that I got to go to , but I'm not the one . After what you just disclosed to me about you having to have a difficult conversation , have to find strength to have that conversation after I'm , I can give you the tools , right , but I'm not the one that's gonna have to put them into practice the way that you do in the situation . That's unique to you .
Speaker 1So , at the end of the day , when I when therapists or when I say I'm proud of you , like I seriously am , like I'm celebrating you because you went out there and did the hard work , right , you went out there and had those hard conversations . You went out there sick and tired of being sick and tired or didn't feel like getting up , and I'd say not many people know what it takes to get up every day and put on your best self when you're battling depression , when you feel anxious , right , they see the end result . They don't know what it took to get there . And I need you to understand and celebrate yourself and find the win in that right .
Speaker 1Nobody's going to understand that and celebrate that part . But you have to right . So it's more so about strengthening and empowering them . So it's I can't take the credit for that , because you know what I mean Like I'm , I'm coaching , but the players are playing All right . The players are playing so like it's a team win for sure , but definitely let the players celebrate because they on the field day in and day out putting their bodies on the line , making those same game decisions . I'm just here to coach .
Speaker 2And if you watch sports , the players always dictate to the coach . When the coach gets to be a part of the celebration , that's incredible . So , like we you gave me the tools I went out and accomplished the thing . I celebrate with the people who were arm and arm in the war , or I celebrate with myself . So , yes , I overcame this , and now I come back to you and say we did it because you were able to give you the one who gave me the tools and the keys , and I want to share this moment with you . This is not your moment , but I'm sharing this moment with you . So , symbolic of the Gatorade being dumped on the coach , right Now we're acknowledging you as well , like we're on the field , like , yeah , we just ran it up . Woo , we won the championship .
Speaker 1Big champ . It was a really good game . You know , somehow the Eagles won the Super Bowl . They won fair and square . You know , celebrate Saquon , it's all right . I'm celebrating Saquon , right , you'll be all right . You should be celebrating the only New York team that played in New York . That's the Buffalo Bills , but that's another conversation .
Speaker 2Oh , the team that went to the Super Bowl four times and lost four times in a row you didn't talk about that .
Speaker 1You said it's another conversation . We moved on . You're in the past . We moved on .
Speaker 2You're stuck in the past
Finding the Right Therapist Connection
Speaker 2but yeah , no , but like that's so good , that's such a good analogy like you're the coach , like you're the coach , like right , the coach is there to give the tools to do the things . I'm like and just envisioning , like you know , like basketball championship , like yeah , like , yeah , michael got six rings but he had a master to help , guide and to look like , and , and sometimes you won't get achievement with the wrong coach . You can just limit your greatness and the right coach can unleash you to go to your full potential , and the wrong coach can be an inhibit . They could be a ceiling . So what it is that you're really supposed to be , and even like the right , the right pastor , the right thing being preached from the pulpit , can either be the thing that pushes you into your the fullness of what God has for you , or it could be this uh , you into your , the fullness of what god has for you , or it could be this uh , you know the proverbial ceiling that limits you and you don't see past what's happening . And I think when you marry the two , like when you have the , the biblical coach , and the uh , I guess , world secular culture , right , I guess it's not the thing thing , but you get the best of both worlds and you get to celebrate , like , when you achieve those things . You get to go oh okay , like I took from here , I took from here , I took from here , but I still did the work and so that's good , man , because , honestly , like everyone's getting to have like a power trip , right , absolutely the same way , the same way . Wow , this is crazy , thank you , god . The same way that God that I feel about pastors is the same way I feel about therapists .
Speaker 2Here's the connection If your pastor doesn't have a pastor , there's no accountability . If your therapist doesn't have a therapist , there's no accountability . If your therapist doesn't have a therapist , there's no accountability . So I asked my therapist when was the last time you've been to therapy ? And if you don't have an answer from me , who are you accountable to ? I'm very big on it . Like this is because I'm big on it , because I know I need it , I know what my weakness is . So if I'm dealing with someone who already acts outside of those confines or doesn't have those guardrails , like I mentioned earlier , that kind of help you from going over the edge , I can't . I can't be there because then my life ain't set up that way . I can't if I go over guardrails like bad you know , like they don't have an impact . Yeah , and I need those things and I need to trust that the person that's trusting to help me navigate also has someone helping them navigate .
Speaker 1It's true , I tell my clients and sometimes some clients definitely ask , like how you doing , how you holding up ? And therapists they either have their own personal therapist or they definitely engage and should be engaging in some type of supervision , right , some type of level of accountability , because burnout is real , right . We , we hold a lot of space , you know , I mean for what people give us in addition to our own . So it was just like I just had a full day of hearing , you know , great news from I got a job . To someone that just said I got fired . To someone that just said I got kicked out . To someone that just said that they're going through relationship issues . To another one that just got a diagnosis or something . So it was just like I went from a good day of just like celebration to like you know what I mean , just like I went from a good day or just like celebration to like you know what I mean . Then , from that I go home to , yeah , you still gotta do this , you still gotta do that , you still gotta execute on that , you still got this relationship over here like you still have all of those things so and you have to be present for them , like right . So who is who is tending to me ? Right , like the doctor , like a surgeon can't do surgery on himself on themselves , right ?
Speaker 1So that accountability piece is key because , at the end of the day as well , if I'm not taking care of myself , I'm not giving my clients my best , I'm not giving those around me my best .
Speaker 1So I also have to engage in that level of self-care . So for you to ask your therapist , and even ask them , you know what I mean there's still professionalism that's in play , right , right , right , right , I'm not asking your therapist about their personal life for real , for real . But at the same time , if your therapist asks you that question , if there are any questions , and you ask that question , it's like , hey , because I do understand that the service that you give takes a lot and I hope that you're in a position to always give me your best . And it's important to my care . Because who wants a doctor just about to perform surgery and a doctor coming in and yawning you know what I mean dozing off before they give you any anesthesia and they be like , yeah , so I'm gonna be a doctor for the day . You know , yawning , you spill alcohol on your breath and we won't . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Like nobody wants that um , so , yeah , asking , ask your therapist questions and things like that , and engaging with them . Um , because it's important to you , you know it's it is is reasonable or no ? It's definitely reasonable .
Speaker 2And a really good therapist in my , in my mind , right , it makes you think that you're talking to your friend . Not it makes you think on purpose , but like , like , you become so comfortable with them that it's you think you're having a casual conversation . You know no longer in the , you know're no longer in the , you're no longer in the vein of , oh , like , this is therapy time and I'm like I'm gonna go through my little checklist now . You're like okay , well , actually this , you know honestly , bro , all this just this week . This was crazy , but for me that's what I found , because , uh , and then I'll stop and then after I'll go you said more than you thought you should say wait a minute , I just told him everything .
Speaker 2I didn't want to tell him that part he told me , social security he's like yeah , he's like uh , huh , and he's like , so what did you ? And it's like you're like cause you're in the throes of telling the story . You're like talking to someone you know . You feel like you're like cause you're in the throes of telling the story . You're like talking to someone you know you feel like you got a little rapport with them and then you realize , and then , like I didn't think about it , I was like I'd be telling that person all my business .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm . But there's confidentiality though . Right , there's confidentiality that's involved , but there are limitations to confidentiality . If you're a danger to yourself , if you're a danger to your arm's way , I'm not sure there's any danger to children , pets , elderly right , Like therapists , are still mandated reporters . But that's just for you , but not in our order right , not in our order right .
Speaker 2Not in our order right Children , pets , elderly . I feel like Ignore that . My mind would think it was like you know , the value of animals above human life .
Speaker 1Nah , nah , nah . This day and age , nah , that's what I was like .
Speaker 2But , um but , nah , there's I'm getting silly y'all .
Speaker 1You know I'm getting late . I'm getting late , um , but therapists are mandated reporters . So it's keeping that in mind because we want you to be safe and those around you to be safe , but it's supposed to be a space that , um . It's safe for you to open up , express yourself and have those conversations that you probably feel like you can't have with others because there's judgment , there's criticisms , there's all of those types of things . So , of course , like still bridging that mental health and faith , and you know how your faith can help you with resilience and being able to persevere .
Speaker 1What scripture or scriptures have you found that ? It's a two part right that has exposed to you mental health in the Bible and also has helped you while you're going through mental health um challenges . And while you're going through that , I can share mine . Mine is um Psalm 51 . This is after David . You know what I mean Committed adultery with , uh , bathsheba and he got caught , got found out , and it was that old snap moment of repentance , and that's what we get . That scripture created me a clean heart , oh Lord , and renew the right spirit within me . But to go through that scripture , it's a powerful scripture , so I do want to give it as respects and go through it . It's a powerful scripture , so I do want to give it its respects and go through it .
Speaker 2Psalm 51 , if you got your Bibles , if you found scripture , please say amen . If your Bible's not too holy , I need you to underline right here If you don't say wait a minute .
Speaker 1If you want the scriptures , it's good to hear the page turning , but you also got your Bible up . Hold on .
Speaker 2Maybe get the oral .
Speaker 1It's right there and the scripture reads maybe you all stand , but but read , read up .
Speaker 2I've only saw that twice at the church , by the way .
Speaker 1Like I , I seen it growing up man Baptist church .
Speaker 2It's funny Cause , like I didn't really do like american churches when I grew up , so like they were like really caribbean , so like I didn't have that same experience . So then now , like my choice is like like I hear people talk about it , or like I was like like I've visited churches that I see , like oh , this was a real thing , like yeah , yeah nah , like they don't really have to do this .
Speaker 1Yeah , nah . But Psalm 51 reads have mercy upon me , o God , according to your love and kindness , according to the multitude of your tender mercies . Blot out my transgressions , wash me thoroughly from my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin , for I acknowledge my transgressions and my sin is always before me , against you . You only have I sinned and done this evil in your sight , that you may be found just when you speak and blameless when you judge . Behold , I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin . My mother conceived me . Behold , you desire truth in the inward parts and in the hidden part . You will make me to know wisdom . Purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean . Wash me and I shall be whiter than snow . Make me hear joy and gladness that bones you have broken may rejoice . Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquities . Create in me a clean heart , o God , and renew a steadfast spirit within me . Do not cast me away from your presence and do not take your Holy Spirit from me . Restore to me the joy of your salvation and uphold me by your generous spirit . Then I will teach transgressors your ways , and sinners shall be converted to you , deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed , o God , the God of my salvation , and my tongue shall sing aloud of your righteousness . O Lord , open my lips and my mouth shall show forth your praise , for you do not desire sacrifice or I will give it . You do not delight in burnt offerings . The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit , a broken and contrite heart . These , o God , you will not despise . Do good in your God , do good in your good pleasure . Design , build the walls of Jerusalem , then you shall be pleased with the sacrifice of righteousness , with burnt offering and whole burnt offering . Then shall other offer bulls on your altar .
Speaker 1So one of the reasons why I come to this scripture a lot , man , because it's called the prayer of repentance . And you know , just from my personal experiences and moments where I've definitely fallen short , I've always come back to this scripture , because it's my sins are always before me and it's that prayer of you know . Restore , you know , the right spirit . Well , renew the right spirit within me , restore to me the joy of your salvation , create in me a clean heart when we fall short , right when we sin , when we do things , you know what I mean . That's not pleasing , or we know it's not right or we feel guilty about . Yeah , I did X , y and Z , like that guilt , that shame that we carry is heavy , and it's that question of is there redemption for the broken man Right ? Is there any way that I can come out of this ?
Speaker 1But David , being , you know , the one that was chosen after God's own heart , even he fell short , right , even he encountered things that was heavy for him , that burdened his heart right To where he committed adultery . Not only did he commit adultery , he had somebody set up and killed to try and cover his tracks , to try and cover his sins . So not only is it the things that we do , but also the things that we hide from being seen and being covered right that weighs heavy on us and that weighs heavy on any person's conscious , but especially as
The Power of Words in Healing
Speaker 1a man , because we don't talk right . That weighs heavy on men's conscious , that impacts their self-esteem , how they show up their identity . But this scripture here is really that scripture of repentance , it's that scripture of just expressing and giving back to God , and one of the other parts that I really like about it is that it says then I will teach transgressors your ways . Not only have I learned from this experience . Not only am I pleading most importantly , don't take your hand from me , right but as I look to move forward , I'm being that light for others , I'm being that example for others .
Speaker 1And often what comes up for me in therapy is when I come across a client that has seen that I've seen something similar , even from my own experiences or others . It's just like I can empathize with you and this is genuine . I've seen something similar even from my own experiences of others . It's just like I can empathize with you and this is genuine . I've seen where you've been . I've been in these same positions , I've seen these types of things . So I'm encouraging you and I'm trying to teach others . You know the ways of you , know my mistakes and how I've learned from them , right , so that there is redemption for those that feel broken , right , but that there is redemption for those that feel broken Right .
Speaker 1But it comes from that confession , it comes from that acknowledgement , it comes from just owning it . But , most importantly , when it comes down to some men of faith , the people of faith , it's , it's going back to God . Don't feel , not feeling as if whatever we've done is too damaging , too destructive , that we can't go back to him . Yes , david was disciplined right by God . So where their son right Didn't survive , and then , down the line , there was some things with his family and things like that . Because of this , however , god still provided for David , and scripture also says that God disciplines those that he loves and because he loves , he will call out , he will correct , so that you can move forward . Teach transgressors your ways , stay humble and , most importantly , stay aligned with him , because don't take your hand from him when God's hedge of protection is removed from you . Oh boy , I don't want that . Scary , scary .
Speaker 1This scripture comes back to mind especially when I feel like I've fallen too deep and just in depressive thoughts or reminding myself and my critic in me , reminding me of why I don't deserve X , y and Z , or why I don't deserve this relationship , why I don't deserve this job , why I don't deserve filling a blank .
Speaker 1This is that prayer of repentance of where all we can do is just ask for God just to create us a clean heart and just strive to just move forward . We're not perfect , but just continue to strive to move , move forward right , we're not perfect , right , but just continue to strive to move forward . So that's one of the scriptures where again it comes . I see mental health in that , but also I see that's where faith provides that healing , it provides that redemption . It doesn't save us or remove us from any kind of discipline . It's not that or correction right , but it reminds us that your life is still worth living and that you can move forward . So that's one scripture Of course many , but that's one scripture for me that I go back to when going through tough times and your memories and experiences just want to circulate in your head a lot .
Speaker 2That's good , because when I see so many things there that you said like that identify with therapy and marriage or faith in therapy , I think that scripture actually couples great with the scripture I mentioned earlier in James 5.16 . Because you see the process right . First is the repentance of God for forgiveness Because the child still died . He stripped himself naked , prayed on the floor , repented , repented , repented . The child still died . But then there's a healing that needs to take place where you talk to one another , where you're able to like , I wonder , what did David then when he told Bash , when he found out the child was dead , what was his conversation with ? That ? She could have , like what now what ? You know ? The scripture says he got up and , just you know , went to do the Lord's will . But right , like the other part , I think , going back to James , confess your trespasses after and literally the same verbiage , the same language , that word trespass is used in the psalm as well as in James and I think it couples well because , yeah , go to God first for repentance , and now here's the next step in it , here's you getting therapy , here's you going to your brother for you going to one another for your trespasses and then praying for one another and then like seeking god's face , and so that that , for me , is like that . That sushi reminds me of therapy , and I also see that it also stood out to me that our problem is not that we send and it blows my mind every time God be like , look , look , this is you . The problem is not that we send , it's that we hide it , and it's the original thing that we struggle with from the beginning of the Bible to the end . Yeah , the problem is not . That is the original thing that we struggle with from the beginning of the Bible to the end . Yeah , the problem , god , the problem is not that they ate the fruit , it's that he lied Mm-hmm , where are you , right , adam , where are you ? This woman you gave me , she said , and what happened was was we was over . Is that we try to hide ? They literally , they literally were physically hiding and then try to do the emotional or or you know , spiritual cover up and say , hey , no see , actually what happened was God . Actually it's you , it's not me , it's you . Same thing with David . You can have any woman , you're the king , right ? Actually , what happened was God . Actually it's you , it's not me , it's you . Same thing with David . You could have any woman . You're the king , right ? Okay , fine , you sleep with her . You sleeping with her was the sin ? Fine , the sin is forgivable .
Speaker 2But the hiding of the sin creates even more , creates even now this unnecessary bloodshed , right ? So when David goes on and God says you spilled so too much , too much blood , is he talking about the wars that David been in or is he talking about what he did to cover up sin ? To exacerbate you ? Exacerbate sin with more sin , right . So now you kill a man because you're covering up the sin that you committed . We do the same . You had a fall , okay , cool . You did something wrong . You cheated on your girl . You cheated on your wife . You cheated on a spouse . You stole something on your girl . You cheated on your wife . You cheated on a spouse . You stole something . You've coveted someone else's spouse , like you've Things get .
Speaker 2It's not that God is not able to forgive , because he already said that Is that when we know we serve a God who's able to forgive and then we try to cover up our sin if he didn't see it already happen . That's where the struggle comes . That's where the identity issues come . That's where the different thoughts come , the ideation okay , maybe I don't deserve to be here , I don't deserve God's mercy , I don't deserve God's grace , I don't deserve this . And then you go down the line of thinking Now it's not the actual sin , it is the product of sin , it is the , and it's like whoa , like you see it from Adam and Eve , you see it in David , you see it in Moses , you see it all , like even the disobedience in Moses . You're like oh , I thought he was cool , like I thought he had it all together . No , no , no , no , no , no , no . He didn't listen .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And the covering up , like , oh well , I did what you said . No , you actually did it . So you can't see the problems wrong . You will not go with them and it's like whoa , but I , you know , you did not do what I said . So you cannot get the result of what I brought .
Speaker 2The promise , the promises of God , is tied to your obedience . If the obedience isn't there , you cannot receive the promise . The promises , the promise of God will hover over your life for the rest of your life . The obedience , whether you tap in and be obedient to it , and I think , and even like , with David not being able to build God , the temple like you had , you was the man . Yeah , you should have been the one to build the temple , you should have bro , you slayed Goliath , you killed lions and tigers and you did all the things and it was like , yeah , but because we want to cover up , so yes , dang , that was good .
Speaker 2I was about to say some notes , wait a minute . But a description that I love , personal favorite , and I see how it connects to therapy and faith , the marriage of therapy and faith . 1 Corinthians , 10 , 13 , and again this new King James Version no temptation has overtaken you , except such as is common to man . But God is faithful , who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able , but with temptation , will also make a way of escape that you may be able to bear it . So God and his infinite wisdom knows that you're going to be tempted . So what he does is in every circumstance of temptation he creates some . There's always a way for you to escape the temptation because of his love for us and for me in the conversation .
Speaker 2Therapy is one of those escapes . Hey , instead of you doing whatever it is that you thought you were going to do , whatever thoughts you had on this process , right , it's been a long time since you scheduled a therapy appointment with your pathos , right ? Accountability where's on your calendar ? Do you have any sessions ? Last time you had a session was okay . No , like hey , get , get on . That . It's right there . I'm not this because the Bible doesn't say God won't put more than you can bear . People make that up .
Speaker 2It said the temptation so you'll be able to bear it and withstand it , not that the temptation all of a sudden lifts because he gave you a way of escape . I mean , you gave me a way of escape so you may be able to bear it Like you're going to have to deal with the things that come , but I'm giving you tools , knowledge , wisdom , understanding . Here's a therapist . Go here , take what it is that you're dealing with , present it to them . Because , like I know , like , oh , my pastor tells me all the time , yeah , but is he equipped ? There are certain things your pastor did not walk through in life that you're going to walk through , that you'll be teaching them in real time while you're experiencing that . You'll be showing them an experience that they have no insight on . But you are the one now walking this lived experience and and if they never walk that road with you , and they and they're and not say that they're limited , they're just not counseled like some of them are not counselors like my .
Speaker 2My challenge to you would be like what does , what does a church with healthy counseling looks like ? What does a church with the marriage of the skill sets that you've learned , that you've educated yourself with , that you become literate and then become proficient in , how does that church look Now that we have emotionally healthy people and we're also getting spiritually fit ? Because your spiritual and emotional growth can't be this
God Complex vs. True Service
Speaker 2lopsided , because you're either a nasty Christian or you're just a really nice person but you don't have any relationship . Right Like it's like . Right Like we got to have some kind of marriage of your emotional and spiritual growth have to like be growing together . Right , because you can't just be a raging Christian .
Speaker 2That doesn't even sound . Right saying it , it's emotionally unstable . So someone blows their breath on you a little too hard and then you're ready to go to blows when you just said you were a Christian . If you can't get your emotions in check , how you spiritually sound , because there's a connection there , there's a true connection there and that's why I picked the scripture , that's why I think that you know the way of escape is really can be ill uh , definitely , um , because what you're hitting on is accountability , right , what you're hitting on is accountability , and if we know that this is the temptation , right , like that text message that came through , oh , boy .
Speaker 2You shouldn't respond to it Wait a minute , right ?
Speaker 1I looked at my phone . You know , one of my clients said to me before just like I was thinking about doing something , and you know the reason I didn't do it is because I would have to come into this room and tell you about it and that's how your relationship with god should be right like oh my god like , and it's not even to say that because that's ideal , that's ideal , right like it's .
Speaker 1We walk this path of righteousness because we don't want to disrespect , you know , god , we don't want to dishonor god , but at the same time , we hold true , and I hold true to this , that we're not perfect . Right , we are human . We have emotions . Um , in romans , um , seven paul talks about you know what I will to do . I find myself not doing , but the things that I don't want to do , those are the things that I keep doing .
Speaker 1So there's a battle between flesh and spirit that's working inside of us . So it's our emotions , right Like our emotions really do drive a lot of our behaviors . Your thoughts impact your emotions and your emotions impact your behavior . So , when we're tempted with something right , tempted with something right Like it's , in those moments where , when Christ was tempted , you know , the devil tempted him with something that was appealing at that time , right , and when it's appealing at that time , we emotionally want to be removed from the pains right , from the struggles , because it doesn't feel good , right , and that route that we take is something that will help us feel good . But what helps us feel good all the time is not always what's good for us .
Speaker 2Right , we crave this instantaneous relief . And you see Christ , self-correct , right , he's in the garden , at Gethsemane he goes he's like , no , like , take this cup . I don't want to endure this , because this is , I have to die for them it's a lie .
Speaker 1I don't want to do this .
Speaker 2I don't want to hurt take this please , because no , no , no , no , no . And then you see him self correct and you see him regulate his emotions . Clearly , christ had tools to regulate his emotions . Right , he then goes . But if it be your will , I have the right to feel what I'm feeling and express it , and express it . But I do not have the right to behave any way I want to . But I do not have the right to behave any way I want to behave . I do not have the right to abandon this thing that's in front , I don't get . I have the right to feel . You have the will .
Speaker 1You have the free will , yeah , to do , but understanding that there's consequences to action .
Speaker 2Right , if I take this road , whoa what Imagine if I said I'm not going to self-regulate , my emotions will dictate my actions .
Speaker 1I mean he flipped tables , though we can't look past that . He did flip tables and put some people in his place . Yeah , he whipped , he was emotional , he stepped away , he got tired of people . He was like yo , I'm about to go off and pray .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm about to go to sleep . That's calculated . That table flip was like , okay , I've been with when we talked to you . Oh , you're in my house beating my father this way and his people . You're robbing my people . Yeah , that's hurt , that's deep hurt .
Speaker 1He ain't killed nobody , though . He didn't push nobody in the face , but he demonstrated .
Speaker 2And then this , but this , that's the regulation . Right , I'm going to do this so they can see these , so they can know the impact of what they're doing , but I'm not going to go as far to sin . That's the difference . I'm going to express myself , but I'm not going to . But I'm not going to , I'm not going to let my , my expression of my emotion lead me down a path of sin or and open up a nature in me that I don't have , because I don't have that in me so it's like you watch it .
Speaker 2You're like can you watch it ? You read it . You're like I'm bad at visual , so I'm seeing Jesus . And you're like this dude had real feelings . He cried when his friend died . He did .
Speaker 1He did .
Speaker 2His friend died and he cried , he had real feelings . He had regulated himself .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2If I go now , everything will get messed up . Mm-hmm , if I go , if I immediately go , I could have not let him die , yeah .
Speaker 1It's a lot of reading scripture . It's a lot of things that we can see within scripture , especially when we say I don't need therapy , I got Jesus right . But even understanding how Jesus overcame things one with scripture right , but he was expressive . Jesus had his inner circle James , peter and John right . He had those that he confided in , he had those that he was more vulnerable with and even he delegated . He didn't do everything , he delegated . Those are some of the things that we preach to people . We encourage people to delegate , to communicate , to establish boundaries , but he also rested , he slept and he Regenerated . Restorishes , being in spaces of social crowds , right , like he had to eat . You know what I mean . I guess so many things . That humanizes Christ's experience , but it's not only just Christ .
Speaker 2He had to walk everywhere because he was broke Right . He didn't want to pay taxes Because he could have took the most of certain places , but to get around you have to pay and he was like all right , so we over here with it .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's so many examples of mental health in the Bible and it's so many that were used in the Bible that weren't perfect . And there's those that question God right . There's those that wrestle with their faith right . There's those that you know God had to reveal themselves in different , reveal himself in different ways so that they can continue to persevere and push through what it is that they were going through , for God will never leave you nor forsake you , but there will be moments where we will feel as if we're by ourselves and feel as if we're isolated . It's real . But when it comes down to Christians , when it comes down to believers , essentially , you can have a therapist as well as and when it comes down to believers essentially , right . Like you can have a therapist as well as being a believer , right . The two don't have to be mutually exclusive , as if they can't coexist . Right ? Therapy is that outlet for you to work through your thoughts , navigate through your emotions . Right , and even express your confliction of . I wish that things would be different .
Speaker 1I don't like the fact that I'm in this position . How can I be in this position ? I tithe , I go to church , I read my Bible X , y and Z . I'm trying to read my Bible , I'm trying to listen to scriptures , but then there's that faith that works its best . So some things come through fasting , right , or some things are . Is you're trying to do so much outside of utilizing the things that you do have ? Yeah , right . So where is your faith to exercise , you know , and put into use the things that you do have right now to help you ?
Speaker 1Right , because that anxiety is coming from . I don't believe in what God has already provided me with that's contributing to your anxiety . Your anxiety is I don't believe that I'm capable of doing things right . So we look at other things that we have to get this now , we have to do this now , right , but sometimes I put it on my own hands , yeah , yeah , and sometimes that be still is not necessarily to not do anything , but to quiet your spirit .
Speaker 1Right Scripture says be anxious for nothing , but in everything , through prayer , supplication , submit your request to God and the peace of God , right . So to have peace in the midst of the anxiousness , the depressive thoughts , is mind boggling , right , you could be broke and still smile and be able to find gratitude . So there's also another scripture in Philippians I believe is right after that being anxious , in Philippians 4 . So whatever is noteworthy , whatever is praiseworthy when we talk about positive affirmations , that's essentially it . I'm going to rejoice in the Lord always . And again I say rejoice , right , be thankful unto him , right . Those are the same kind of positive affirmations that we hear spread in other spiritual areas . You know what I mean , but it's also in scripture and it's also in the word uh . So there doesn't have to be a separation of spirituality , faith and therapy , but there is an understanding of , which is definitely a topic where religion , right , can stunt our growth in regards to how we interact with God and how we interact with our emotions . There's another topic I want to get into .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , we got to figure that out .
Speaker 1on another topic I don't want to get into because yeah , yeah , yeah but no , but definitely just wanted to again just have an opportunity to be a part of something like this with a good brother again , appreciate Greg and his wisdom and sharing his experiences what's funny is that we did this in the pandemic .
Speaker 2Yeah , we did , we did . I like completely like yeah , we did . I was like why does this feel so familiar ? I was like who's cool ?
Speaker 1Yeah , we did . We had a whole thought process game plan . How can we have a men's group kind of thing , keep that going . But things come full circle . Thought process game plan how can we have a men's group kind of thing , keep that going , but things come full circle . Man , I would say for real . For real , I was listening to when you're .
Speaker 1God's purpose will always be done . If he has a purpose , his mission in you , his task that he has for you will be completed . And the spaces that we're in and the times that we do believe that it's meant for us to act , it's not always that time . I was listening again to TD Jakes and he was just like he was quoting someone else who said there's nothing more powerful than an idea and a purpose whose time is now Right , like when it's supposed to happen , when it's going to happen , it's going to happen . You know what I mean . And sometimes , when we think that this is our time to do things we have to be mindful of , is this
Psalm 51: Confession and Redemption
Speaker 1us moving or are we waiting for God to move us , because we try to take like 30 steps ahead of them ? It's like , oh , this idea is fresh , let me do this now . X , y and Z . The next thing we know from personal experience God sits you down and be like yeah , nah , bro , you ain't , you ain't equipped yet , you ain't ready yet .
Speaker 1You don't have the tools yet . You don't have the . You know what I mean . You don't have these particular things yet . So in time , so will we be faithful and committed to the process of his timing right and being able to here's again like , manage our anxiousness and be able to wait on the Lord . Wow , and for manage our anxiousness and be able to wait on the Lord and for His timing to carry us through and for His Spirit to carry us through .
Speaker 1Because I don't want to move and I've learned the hard way , I'm still learning I don't want to move without His say-so , his blessing , because I've been in that space when it was just me thinking I could do that With no power . Yeah's , that's some of the things that has pushed me back because of that anxiousness of oh , if I don't do this . And then it's that peer pressure like , oh , everybody's like , yeah , just do it now , do it now . And then some people question is like , why haven't you done it yet ? Because god hasn't told me to . Yeah , all right , god hasn't told me to . Um , god , god hasn't told me to , god hasn't .
Speaker 1He is setting things up but , most importantly , he's preparing me to go through my process . He's preparing me to learn the things that I need to learn . And he's also allotting time for me to mess up , which I did and have been , because he put in a place that buffer for my mess-ups and then still bringing it full circle is that , yeah , you'll never disrespect me . You know what I mean . Like , yeah , my glory will always be there , but even through your mess-ups , you will teach transgressors . You know what I mean . Mean his ways more than anything . So that's been my experience since the pandemic which is about for the past 4 or 5 years . I've just been like detours and just it's . Also I don't post as much cause , just like I need to sit down somewhere . He had to sit me down somewhere and just be like nah , because if you move right now , it's all going to be about you yep and that's like because your positions and this might not be for everybody listening , but the level of influence that carries with your voice .
Speaker 2I think that it is people like you need to be very keen to the voice of God in terms of when to move and when not to move . I know that God may say . I explained this to someone . I said God may say look at this , this is what I'm telling you . That doesn't mean this is today . I mean this is tomorrow .
Speaker 2Um , the and waiting doesn't mean doing nothing . Like you said , right , waiting . Waiting means preparing , waiting to meet yourself in the right posture and he means regulating , learning how to regulate your emotions on this level . So , before you walk into that , you won't throw it all away because you said the wrong thing , you emoted the wrong way , you could not understand that this was for you to do for someone else . This wasn't . Actually . None of this is for you .
Speaker 2I only gave you this because I knew that it would bless someone else and when you mess this up , I'm not going to allow my people to suffer because of you . I'm going to elevate someone else who has less skills than you , less influence than you , less voice than you and who I didn't equip to do this . I'm just going to raise them up to do it because I know that this is the world for my people . I care about my people . I'm not going to allow you and your ego to supersede what it is that I want done in the earth . Just because you're not disciplined enough to be obedient , it won't change you . So , yeah , man , then your nature deposits all the things that you're seeing . Keep a tab of them , just when God says okay now , remember what I said on January 7th of 2021 ? Okay , now you can move . No , that's what that's all about and that's why I could . Oh , because I did that .
Speaker 2That's why you know my cohort . I was in a cohort , I was in a cohort with a administration trainee and my cohort , I remember my cohort was ministers and with ministers and training , and my cohort , uh , everyone , my cohort was licensed to be minister and and then , um , my pastor was speaking to them about what this now means and God was like it's not that you didn't do what everybody else did , it's not that it's not for you , it's not right now . Great , I'm protecting you in a way that people may look at . People may look at it and think that you're being scolded or punished . You may even perceive it that way . This is my protection , this is my supreme protection and you will . And while your feelings may be hurt , while you may be going through a thought process that you're going through , you're still going to have to act with opinions . Regulate those , regulate those things . Feel , feel Completely feel . You're still going to have to act with opinions . Regulate those , feel . Understand that this is my protection . This is not my punishment and that .
Speaker 1That is it . How do we regulate our feelings , our emotions , our anxiousness in the waiting period ? That requires faith , discernment , patience . That's reminded me of . I had to look it up , it was Jeremiah , chapter 12 , verse 5 . If you have run with footmen and they have wearied you , then how can you contend with horses ? With horses ? Yeah , all right , so it's trusting God . They have wearied you . Then how can you contend with the horses ? Yeah , right , so it's trusting God's process and his purpose in your life and attending therapy .
Speaker 1You know what I mean Staying faithful to the process , right , staying , you know , committed , you know , to everything that he has placed for you in the now , while he's preparing you for the future . Right , because the moments that we're here now is like what they say grow where you're , where you're planted , where your feet are planted , where your feet are planted . Right , like where you currently are , right now . Because who knows what the future holds ? And our anxiety is understandably so right . Our anxiety is understandably so right . Our anxiety is telling us look at what everybody else is doing , look at what you're not doing . You know what I mean . So I got to move . Now . Social media is telling us we got to move now . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1But when we compare ourselves to others and those depressive thoughts start to tie in with our anxious thoughts , we start feeling like we can't do it . We start feeling worthless . We start feeling like we can't do it . We start feeling worthless . We start feeling like we don't have a purpose , right . Or we start to take things on and create our own way , right . We feel like God is taking his time . So , therefore , you know , aaron and all of them started to create their own idols while Moses is on the mountain giving the Ten Commandments . It's like if only I would have waited , right . But yet , yeah , I feel like God wasn't moving fast enough . And here we are now , and then we get so comfortable in a space of the children of Israel , being free from Egypt , from the Egyptians . It's just like we've been waiting to move , right . We've been waiting for this day , and now that we're here , I feel like it was better for us to be slaves , right ? So it's trusting God in every step of the way that , yes , we will have challenges . Yes , people will come against us . Yes ,
Hiding vs. Confronting Our Sins
Speaker 1opposition will arise . But James , chapter one , says count it all joy when you go through trials and tribulations of many kinds , because the testing of your faith works perseverance Right . It's important for us to persevere in life .
Speaker 1Therapy is not a space for us to learn how to escape and not feel . Therapy is a place for us to understand how to feel but still have the ability to navigate and show up and carry out whatever mission , purpose , goal that we have . It's how do we still show up in a job that we don't like ? Right so that we can still make money but at the same time work and navigate a way that we can get out of the job right and find something else , but just not going to work right . It's not going to cut it right . It's not right Trying to go from job to job or relationship to relationship because we're not getting this . That's not going to work . It's not sustainable because we're just escaping instead of doing the hard work of being present even when we find it most difficult to regulate and be .
Speaker 1But once we master that of , I can be in a space where I'm uncomfortable but still present my best self . That's a healthy place to be and that's an ideal place to be in and you'll find that you'll overcome and you'll move . But if this triggers me and causes me to withdraw , and I do that in every situation . How am I moving my needle forward ? Right , and I ask you to be , you know , the extrovert kind of thing . But how can you navigate in the best way that you can so that you can move your needle forward ? That's the goal , that's all we can do . But without therapy we don't have those tools and we can't do that self-discovery to better ourselves and without that , that aspect of faith and our connection to Christ , especially for believers , it's hard for us to have that foundation and understand our purpose and our calling as we move forward . So yeah , faith and therapy , man , it's important , it's needed . So yeah , but I definitely appreciate you . So yeah , but I definitely appreciate you joining man .
Speaker 2This was good . This was good man , it was therapeutic , it was Bible study and therapy at the same time . For sure , and , yeah , I hope that it blesses someone out there . And , um , I don't want to , you know , take this uh space for granted or this moment when it's time for granted , but just pray , um , for people who are watching , people listening . So , god , uh , thank you for this opportunity , thank you for this time . I thank you that you have allowed and given platform to Blue and that you allowed this voice to resonate with your people .
Speaker 2And now , god , we ask that the things that were said and spoken here , that it reaches those who have yet to know you , those who have come in contact with you but not yet in relationship with you . God , we ask that something here touches the hearts and the mind of those who want to grow in a relationship with you , and it touches the hearts and mind of those who want to grow in therapy and who are already in a relationship with you but need to seek additional help and additional tools . We just thank you for the mind that you bless . We thank you for your obedience that it takes to do something like this and to be consistent in it and , god , we thank all those who are listening and that they're blessed with something , that they walk away from this saying that they either are going to engage in therapy or they're going to engage in a stronger relationship with you a stronger relationship with you , and we just thank God for either one . We thank God that there's going to be impact from it . In Jesus' name , amen .