Don't buy the lie! NFL Star Sherman Smith

This episode just oozes with wisdom from one of the most successful players and coaches in football.  You'll hear how the game of football is just a small part of the impact Sherman Smith has on players.   From High school to the NFL his unique slant on what it takes to be  successful is what makes his story so compelling.  As a follower of Jesus he strives to walk the walk and let his actions speak.  As he says. "It's not what I do, or say,  IT'S WHO I AM, that matters most. 
You'll hear about the power of the team's  FRIDAY MORNING DEVOTIONALS,   why some players were depressed even shortly after a Super Bowl win, and the incredible miracle story that he shares in the Kendrick Brothers film:  "SHOW ME THE FATHER".   Episode 28 is one of my very favorites as I got to know Sherman TANK. 

For the movie Trailer:  https://youtu.be/Ao9IxgtRXyE

To stream the movie on Amazon Prime for $5.99:  https://www.amazon.com/Show-Me-Father-Sherman-Smith/dp/B09HH6G6WN/ref=tmm_aiv_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

"Amazing Greats"  is a library of interviews with highly successful people who have amazing career and life stories and who share how God has impacted their journey.  Hosted by broadcaster Ric Hansen & produced by Klem Daniels.   Available on Apple,  Spotify, iHeart, Google and our  YouTube Channel. 
Please help us grow our audience by "liking", "subscribing and "Sharing".   Thanks so much. 

Transcript

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Ric 0:00

Well, hi there, and welcome to Amazing GRETS. Today we talk with an NFL player who played the game at every level, then coached the game at every level, and brought a whole lot more to football than just how to run routes. But he definitely knew how to do that as well, and was in fact the first offensive player picked by the new expansion team, the Seattle Seahawks, in 1978. He was called Sherman Tank, legendary coach and player, running back, number 47, Sherman Smith. Well, we are privileged and proud to be able to have on the podcast today. Amazing Greats is one of the amazing great football giants of our time. Let's face it. I mean, Sherman Smith is with us today. Sherman Smith, this is you're like an icon in my hometown of Seattle. I mean, you you were kind of at the bookends of what Seattle Seahawk history is all about. You were there at the beginning, and you were there for the Super Bowls. So that's quite a legacy that you have here in Seattle.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Well, man, it was a great, great career in Seattle, great time living in uh the Pacific Northwest. And like I said, a lot of great memories, man. A lot of great memories.

Ric 1:20

Yes. So let's let's start with the let's start from the get-go. So you were the first, uh I just realized this uh in going back and doing a little research. You were the first um offensive player picked to be in the new uh Seahawks franchise in 1976, correct? Yes, yes. How how did that feel to be known you're the guy that they went to first?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Well, yeah, I I never made that big, I never thought about it that way, you know, just knowing that that year was the first year of the franchise, and you know, Steve Neehouse was our first round draft pick. And, you know, I'm coming out of Miami, Ohio, and the fact that I got drafted as a wide receiver when I was a quarterback in college and you know, making the transition. And so I I was just looking at it, I was just a part of a new group that was coming there in the Northwest, and we were trying to, you know, put a football team together and see if we can win some games.

Ric 2:10

So, and and and what a great, what a memorable and great crew, you know, with Jim Zorn and Steve Largent.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, yeah, Rick. Yes, yeah, man. That we were very I was I was really blessed. I was telling a friend of mine, uh, we were talking last week, and I said, I was so blessed that, you know, as I started my career, the type of guys that God allowed me to be around, you know, the Jim Zorns, the the Norm Evans, the Ken Hutcherson, you know, Dave Brown, you know, Steve Large. God allowed me to be around some great guys that and that I really needed in my life at that time for not only for my growth as a football player, but my growth as a as a man and particularly as a Christian.

Ric 2:46

And how did that, how did the Christianity thing integrate with the crew there? I mean, it was uh very solidly, it was an interesting um because the the star players are all these great godly men, you know? That's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Well, you know, it's interesting. We would go to the Pro Athletes Outreach Conference uh that Norm Evans was part of, you know, with the PAO, and we would go down there and they would tell us that the Seahawks were referred to as God Squad. Because we had all these believers that, like you said, the the frontline players were believers and they were outspoken about their faith. And people say, Yeah, man, we call you guys God Squad.

Ric 3:23

I didn't realize that. I knew you were the tank, but I didn't know about the God Squad.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, man.

Ric 3:29

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Well, yeah, that you know, because it we're just so you know, I was uh talking to Tony Dungey. I did a thing with Tony Dungey a few months ago, and he talked about the Seahawks team and just understanding, recognizing people were talking about how you know the team was outspoken, the guys were outspoken about their faith, and uh, you know, how he was at that time when he was in Pittsburgh, how that impacted him as a as a as a player on the other side of the country.

Ric 3:52

So do you connect with those guys, the uh the the old crew uh at uh along the way, or do you have a relationship?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah, along the way, you know, particularly when I was back there, you know, I was coaching, you know, the last seven years when I was there with Pete, you know, I would get to see guys, they would come into town for games and events. So I would see them more then than I do, even now that I'm back here in Tennessee.

Ric 4:13

It's almost kind of the God Squad returns uh in in uh in your return to the Seahawks, the later guys, uh Russell Wilson. There's a whole gang of them that are very outspoken Christians.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah. Well, that was fun being a part, you know, like I said, when I came back there in 2010 with Pete, and you know, that still that that strong Christian uh influence was still going there. And then, you know, you start getting guys in like Russell Wilson, who was outspoken about his faith. Once again, he's he's a quarterback, and then how to see how that just kept going on, and and guys just kept growing in their faith, understanding the legacy of this team with the spiritual uh reputation of being outspoken and and living the right way. These guys gravitated to that and understood that there was a legacy that they were trying to follow, also.

Ric 4:59

Yeah, yeah. So you were that's kind of where you became a Christian, right? Uh as a Seahawk at the very get-go with Ken Hutcherson was kind of your your spiritual guide, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Oh, that was he he was my I I tell him, George, I go from uh what Luke 19, uh, he was my sycamore tree. You know, like Zacchaeus had to climb the sycamore tree to see Jesus, Hutch was my sycamore tree. When I was a senior and a senior in college, you know, people were talking to me about Christ, the difference he can make in my life, and I'm a visual learner, and people were saying it, but I was looking at their life, and the only difference I saw between them and me is they went to church a lot and I didn't. They went to Bible studies and I didn't, you know, but but they were telling me what Jesus could do for me. And I remember crying out one night saying, Lord, I need somebody to show me. I need somebody to show me. And when I got drafted by the Seahawks, you know, I truly believe, you know, God's hand was in that. When I got drafted by the Seahawks, I'm sitting in the lunchroom up there at Eastern uh Washington University, and this guy walks in, big black guy walks by me, and on the back of his t-shirt, it said Hutch is going to Seattle to do God's battle. And I said, Man, a life. Here it is, I've come some 2,000 miles of running to another so-called Christian. And I know God put it on my mind, my heart at that time, to watch him say, You watch this guy. And Hutch was the guy. He showed me. He lived it. And when he blew his knee out in our last preseason game in the locker room with ice packs on his knee, he was told his career was over with. I walked in, I went in the locker room, Rick, and I wanted to give him comfort and you know, and just tell him everything's gonna be all right. He comforted me. You know, he encouraged me. When he smiled and he said, Sherman, I'm a Christian, and nothing happens in my life that's not filtered through God's hands first. And right there in that locker room, I asked him, please tell me more about Jesus Christ, because I knew it had to be for real. You couldn't fake that, not during that time. And man, he he shared the gospel with me. And man, I became, I didn't become a Christian at that moment, but when I became a Christian, like you said, you know, Rick, he became my mentor. He became that guy that walked with me to the to the day God took him home, uh, December 18th, 2013. He was he was that man in my life that God used to show me Christ.

Ric 7:11

Was there a moment then when you actually accepted the Lord as your savior? Was there an aha Jesus moment after that?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, what it happened for me, uh right at the end of the season, my rookie year, I had hurt my knee and I had to have cartilage. I had, you know, something real minor at that time. I had to have a cartilage, I had an injury to my cartilage. And I remember on the corner of Broadway and Madison, I came out of the doctor's office, and I knew the huck, I knew the confidence that Hutch had when he blew his knee out and his career was over with. Well, my career wasn't over with. You know, hey, yeah, we need to take your cartilage out, it's no big deal. But I tell you what, I didn't have the confidence and the hope that Hutch had. And I I sat in my car right in there, I think it was a Jan, I think it was January 17th, uh 1977, on the corner of Madison and Broadway. I sat in my car and I said, God, I don't know you, but I know what Hutch said about you. And I want you to come into my life, make a difference in my life, give me the confidence and the hope, you know, in someone other than myself, you know, and I prayed to receive Christ in. And I tell people, you know, you know how Seattle is, it was overcast, all of a sudden the sun didn't break out, and all that other stuff, you know. But I knew at that moment, man, that, you know, it was different. I had prayed to receive Christ, and you know, my journey began.

Ric 8:31

Isn't that awesome? That is so cool. And that has been with you the rest of your career, not only in your in your playing career, but you know, right up to today. And it played a key role in your coaching career. So you were a coach, and this I gotta hear this story is going from the NFL in uh, I guess it was 1983, right? That you made the transition from the NFL to Redmond Junior High School. Well, how did that how did that work with your psyche?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Well, Rick, what's interesting is playing pro football is not something that I aspired or dreamed to do. When I left my when I left Youngstown, Ohio in 1972 and went to college on a scholarship in Miami of Ohio, I just wanted to be a high school teacher and coach. That's why I was gonna be a teacher and a coach. And so when I got to Miami, we had a great, you know, had a great career there. And they say, hey man, you might get a chance to get drafted. So I said, well, that's fine. So for me, when when it was over with, I was excited. I said, now I get to do what I really wanted to do. I said, I want to be a coach and a teacher. So I was looking for I was looking forward to that. Man, when it happened, I I didn't stumble, I didn't hesitate. I went right to Lake Washington School District and put in my application to become a teacher. Um that's when it began.

Ric 9:52

That's incredible. And you and then you went to Redmond Junior High, or I mean Redmond High School, beyond that. Um, and and and then pace us through the the rest of the coach journey.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Well, you know, I I always for for my five years there and uh while I coached, I taught at Redmond Middle School, but I coached at Redmond High School. Oh, okay. Okay. Coached football at Redmond High School. Now, at Redmond Middle School, I coached track and basketball, but I coached football at Redmond High School.

Ric 10:20

I gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

So I would go up there every day and coach with Jim Sampson, who was a blessing in my life. You know, God blessed me with a head coach that I first started coaching with that showed me he loved the Lord, loved the kids. And that's why I said, man, this is great. This is what I want to do. So I did that for five years. And at that point, I didn't want to go to college at all. You know, I just wanted to be a high school coach. But my friend of mine got the head job at Miami, Ohio, where I graduated from. We were teammates, and he said, Man, let's go back to our alma mater and let's, you know, see if we can go back to the great championship years that we had. So that's when I left uh in 1990 and went back to Ohio and started coaching at Miami of Ohio. So I coached there for two years, and then I went to the University of Illinois. And I coached at the University of Illinois for three years under Lou Tepper. Well, at Miami of Ohio, Randy Walker was our head coach, a teammate of mine. And then I went to Illinois. Lou Tepper was the head coach, strong believer, man. I I thank God for him and his influence on my life. And then after that, then I went to uh Houston Oilers, then we moved to Tennessee, and I stayed with the Houston Oilers, Tennessee Titans for 13 years, went to Washington for two years with Jim Zorn, where we where we coached together, and then I finished my last seven years in Seattle with Pete Carroll's on P. Carroll staff.

Ric 11:39

So jumping back to um the the Zorn years, how did that the reconnection with you and Jim Zorn? Was that a pretty cool experience?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Oh man, it was a cool experience. It was, you know, those two years in DC were rough years, though, man. I tell you what, you know, it that experience, I I I told Z, man, I wouldn't exchange that period for anything as tough as it was because I know God did some molding and shaping and you know, man, strengthening my faith because that was a rough situation for Jim as well as for myself. But working with Z Z-Man was a blessing, you know, to have him as the head coach and you know, for him to allow me to do what I, you know, what I was comfortable doing, and and you know, and and and speaking to the team and stuff, but working with Z Man was a blessing. Really was a blessing to spend those two years with him.

Ric 12:24

So tell us about your uh your coaching style, because I know it's not that it's not normal. It's not it's not it's not the typical uh here's how you run the routes, right? It's uh it was a whole different experience to have uh Sherman Smith as your coach with guys like Eddie George along the way. Um, tell us, give us some insight as to as to uh how it worked for you. What made you special?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Well, you know, I think when I accepted Christ, well, back in high school when I knew I wanted to be a coach, is when I was watching my high school coach, Rick. You know, I'm sitting in the back of the health class, health class, my junior year in high school, and not knowing what I wanted to do. And here it is, I'm looking at my high school coach up there, teaching a health class. He had come to our high school uh four years previous, when our high school was one of the losiest programs in the state of Ohio. And he came in there and he changed that program around from the inside out. He talked to us about having pride in yourself, pride in your school, talked about how you looked at yourself, you got to think of yourself right, because that's gonna impact how you look at other people. And I just saw the difference that he made in the lives of our community as well as the players, and I remember saying to myself, that's what I want to be. I want to be a coach because I want to make a difference in the lives of the players and the and the people. So I knew right then, I knew why I wanted to coach. God gave me my why in 1971 when I was a junior in high school. Then God gave me the how and the how to do it for Christ when I became a Christian. And so so I started, I became a Christian before I started coaching. So when I started coaching, I said, Man, I coach to make a difference. When I got interviewed by Lou Tepper at the University of Illinois, the first question he asked me was, he said, Why do you coach? He said, Do you coach to make a living or do you coach to make a difference? And I knew the answer he wanted because I knew where he was coming from, but I knew that was truly my answer. I said, I coach to make a difference. That's why I coach. I said, I coach to make a difference in the lives of the players and the people that I come in contact with. So therefore, when I go out to coach, it's not what I do, it's who I am. And I just said, man, I coach to make a difference. I'm gonna treat players. I had a statement that the power of respect is to never disrespect. And I said, man, I'm never gonna disrespect any of my players. I'm gonna coach them the right way, I'm gonna talk to them the way that I'd want to be talked to, talk to them the way that I'd want someone to talk to my son. And when I started coaching at Rabbin High School, uh, I would always say to my players, you may not be looking for a father, but I'm gonna treat you like you're my sons. And that's how I looked at all the guys. I looked at them like they are my son. I'm gonna talk to you the right way, treat you the right way. And I would say as if your mom or dad was standing here, let alone the fact that if my God is looking at me, that he would be glorified in the way that I interact with him. That didn't mean I didn't get after guys, you know, hold them accountable, you know, man, have to talk stern to them, but I talked to them the right way in a manner in which I knew that I wouldn't be embarrassed, they wouldn't be embarrassed, you know, and God wouldn't be embarrassed.

Ric 15:27

Was so in integrated in your coaching style, did you talk about Jesus? Uh or was that was that hands off, or did you get any pushback on that? How did that work?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

It worked out real good, you know, because the biggest thing, one thing Hutch taught me, he he had a saying, and I don't know if it was original with him, what you do speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying. That's what he would always tell us. And so what I did, man, I did my best, you know, to live the life in front of God, you know, to live it. Not just to talk, because I had enough of people telling me what how what Christ could do, but not showing me. So I said, man, I'm gonna try to be like, I don't want to be like, you know, like you know, in the story about Zacchaeus. You know, he tried to see who Jesus was and people were getting in the way. I wanted to be a sycamore tree the way Hutch was a sycamore tree for me. So what I would do, man, I just live the life in front of him. And then they would give me, I would share with, I said, man, let me share something with you guys, you know. And if I was reading something, a book or something, I would share, man, let me share something with you guys. And the guys gave me permission to share, to share my life, you know. And okay, coach, what do you think about this? You know, and they would know that I'm a Christian, you know. Hey, coach, what does God's word say about this? So even guys started asking about it. So they knew where I was coming from. So it wasn't preaching that. You know, I didn't go in there, man, every day preaching it. I just I didn't do that. I I I told the guys as a Christian, I said, it's not my job to save you or change. I said, that's not what I'm trying to do. So I'm just gonna live the life in front of you, man, and encourage you if you're a believer, encourage you if you're not. I said, man, I'm I'm I'm walking this life too. You know, man, I'm gonna stumble and fall too. But I said, but this is what I want you to know. My desire is to live to please God. And throughout my entire career, guys gave me the permission to share with them. I'll tell you a story that happened in Seattle. This is this is really cool. People didn't, you know, what we would have on Fridays during game week, that that was that day was always different. It was a little different. Meetings were shorter, the day was shorter. So what I would do on Fridays when the running backs we'd break up for our meeting, we would have a devotional in the room. I had a room full of Christians. We had Justin for Seth, uh, you know, Leon Washington, you know, we had guys in there that were believers that would share the word. And so, you know, so at that time Marshawn was in that group also. So we would get in there and we would take turns. We so before we started our meeting, we would take 10 or 15 minutes and someone would do a devotion. Oh, wow. So we're doing this. So here it is. So we're doing this stuff. And so, man, I'm getting my job done coaching my guys, and I want people to know that I coached my guys, so they were ready to play. But we would do this. So, what happened? Something along the way, Daryl Bevel at that time, he said, Hey Sherman, I need you guys. You can't have your meeting, your separate meeting. You need to stay in with the rest of the team because there's some things I want to cover. So that happened for about four or five weeks. I tell you what happened, Rick, probably about the third week or the fourth week, Marshawn Lynch came to me and he said, He always called me boss man, boss man, when are we gonna get back to having our time together? He said, Man, I enjoyed that. And I'm gonna tell you what, Marshawn and those devotions never said a word, but he was listening. And he said, Man, when are we gonna get back to that? I enjoy doing it.

Ric 18:41

Wow, wow. So, along the way, did you see some conversions, some guys that um have accepted Christ that you were aware of? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Well, you you saw guys accept Christ with I think the big thing I saw, I saw guys mature in their faith, you know, understand, get a better understanding of what it means to walk with Christ, because they have some of the false ideas like I did too, you know, just be a good guy, you know. They didn't know it was about a relationship, you know. Um, and so a lot of legalism, you know, a lot of uh accepting, you know, hey, I I can't be a godly man, so I just accept being sinful, you know, and I'll just ask for forgiveness. So understand and challenge your guys in their faith, you know. And what I would do is I would always talk tell the believers, my guys that were Christians, I would say, now if you're a Christian, I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you what God has to say about it. If you're not, if you're not a Christian, I want to encourage you that you need to understand that you know Christ is the way. That's how you're saved. So if I had a non-Christian uh player of mine, he was, you know, he was acting up, he cussed a lot, did all kinds of crazy stuff. And I I didn't want to encourage him to stop cussing, stop drinking, stop chasing women. He starts doing he stops doing that, but doesn't accept Jesus Christ. Well, now you got a non-cussing, non-drinking, non-womanizing, non-Christian. You know, so I would tell guys, man, you need Christ in your life, you know. That that's what makes the difference. So a lot of people think that you have to overcome sin to walk in the spirit, but I would say, no, you got to walk in the spirit to overcome sin. So, you know, that's what I would share with my guys, man. We got to walk in the spirit to be what God wants us to be. So it was just discipling, guys. That's that's what it was.

Ric 20:17

That's so amazing. That is incredible. Let's jump back quickly because um you kind of lived by some uh mantras and and probably still do, uh, that that uh were instilled in you by your your your father and your and your mother. Uh I I plucked out three different kinds of mantras. Uh the first one is Don't Buy the Lie. Tell us about Don't Buy the Lie. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Oh man. Well, that goes back to right before I had my revelation about what I wanted to do. I was in my junior year in high school, and my dad said to me, he said, What are you gonna do when you graduate from high school? Because my dad was funny. He said, Uh, you're gonna do one of three things. You're gonna go to college, you're gonna get a job, you're gonna go to the armed forces. He said, But you're not gonna be living at home with us. So he made that real quick. So, you know, when you when you graduate from high school, you better have a plan. So I gave my father my plan, Rick. I said, Dad, I said, I want to work in the steel mill just like you did. And I said, I want to live in the apartment complex right down the street from you guys. I can be close to you. That apartment right down the street from my dad was a public housing unit. You know, it was called the Kimmelbrooks. Heck, I had a lot of friends of my teammates that lived in the Kimmel Brooks. I didn't think it was that bad of a deal. So, yeah, man, I'm gonna live right down there in the Kimmel Brooks. And dad, if I can just have a nice car, I just want to have a nice, dependable car so I can get to work and get around, and that was it. And my dad didn't like my plan. Because growing up in Youngstown during that time, you know, you know, that was 1970, 71, you know, you know, the civil rights movement, man, it was, you know, there was a lot of stuff happening. So the environment was an environment that was a certain segment of society. He was telling me that I had no hope, you know, of doing anything, of being anybody because of the color of my skin. And then I had those within my community that had lost hope and was telling me, going to college and doing all this other stuff, you won't be able to do it. And so my father saw that I had bought the lie. So what happened? He took me down by that apartment complex that I wanted to live in. And when we got in the car, he said, Don't say a word. We get in the car, he drives down the apartment complex, he said, Don't buy the lot. Then we drive, there were three of them on the side of town where I live. We drive by the next one, the McGuffey Terrace. He said, Son, don't buy the lot. We drive down by another one as we're leaving my side of town. And the name of this place was called the Plaza View Apartments. So here it is. Another public housing unit that was called the Plaza View Apartments. And my dad said, Son, don't buy the lot. He said, Don't buy the lie that this is the only place where you can live. Then we drove out to Borman, Ohio, the vanilla suburbs, I called it, the high rent district, manicured lawns, you know, all brick houses. He said, Don't buy the lie that one day you can't live in a house like this, you know, in a neighborhood like this. Then we went down to that steel mill where my dad worked. He said, Don't buy the lie that this is the only place where you can work. He said, Don't buy the lie that you can't be a teacher, doctor, lawyer. He went through a whole lot of things that he thought was possible for me. And the last one that he said, and I'll never forget this, that's 1971, the climate of our country. And this isn't me being political, but it's just talking about my father's vision. He said, son, don't buy the lie that one day you or another black man can't be president of the United States. And I'm gonna tell you what, in 2008, when President Obama was elected, I'm sitting in my in my in my family room in Virginia and I start crying because my dad had said that. And I was glad that my dad lived to see that day. Because back in 1971, my father thought that we're capable of this. This country is capable of this. And he was telling me I, as an individual, was capable of doing more. And he said, Don't buy the lie that people are trying to tell you that you can't do stuff. Then that's that that was my dad.

Ric 24:05

Ah, that's incredible. And your mom had one. Your mom says, Don't be the one.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Uh don't be the one. Yeah, mama told me don't be the one. So I'm getting ready to go to my now, I'm going to Miami University because I said I want to be a coach. Miami University is known as the cradle of coaches. So I'm going to Miami University. At that time, that school was 98.9% white. So I'm going to a school where I know many, you know, I'm truly in the minority. And so that's what my mom told me. She said, son, you're getting ready to go to a school where people are going to say that the only reason why you're there is because of affirmative action or because you're on a scholarship. She said, Don't be the one. She said, son, there are gonna be people there that are gonna say, not only can't you learn, you don't even want to learn. She said, Don't be the one. She said, son, there are gonna be people there that are gonna say, not only can't you get along with other people, you can't even get along with your own people. She said, son, don't be the one. She said, Don't be the one they're talking about when they make that state. Don't you be the one they're talking about when they make that statement. She said, You're gonna validate negative stereotypes or tear them down. You're gonna make things better, those coming behind you, or you're gonna make things worse. And I I knew at that time my mom was letting me know that going to college was not only a privilege, but she was letting me know that I had a responsibility. So I understand, son, don't be the one that becomes a stumbling block. Don't be the one that validates the negative stereotypes. And that's what she was telling me.

Ric 25:25

So now, mom and dad, did you did they did you go to did you do any churching at all back in those days? Was did you go to Sunday church or no?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah, oh yeah. At that time, I give my mom and dad credit. They, you know, Rick, they taught us what they knew, you know, and that what they know, made you go to church, you know, and you know, and you be be a good person. And so we went we went to church. It's not like we went on Sunday and Wednesdays, but you know, we wanted to be regular church attendants, be good people. But a relationship with Christ, I didn't know that until Hutch, till Hutch told me it's a personal relationship. But my mom and dad were good people, you know, and you know, they raised us the best way they knew to have fear, a fear of God. They did the best they could. And so, you know, they were solid as they knew. And then later on in life, after I became a believer, I remember sharing with my mom and my dad, and their faith grew because they now understood it's a personal relationship with Christ.

Ric 26:18

This is Rick Hanson sharing the mic with legendary football giant Sherman Smith on Amazing GRETS. That's that was my other question is did did their uh spiritual life grow with yours?

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Absolutely, absolutely. We encourage each other, no doubt about it.

Ric 26:34

All right, the final uh mantra don't be a fool.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

That was that was Hutch, right? That was Hutch. Well, that's what happened. So, you know, as I told my my testimony about when I came in that locker room to encourage Hutch. And I said to him, you know, you know, and he's telling me, you know, hey man, I'm excited to see what God has planned for my life. And you know, Sherman, I'm a Christian, and nothing happens in my life is not filtered through God's hands first, you know, and then that's when he said to me, you know, Psalms 14, he said, Psalms 14, one says, For the fool has said in his heart, there is no God. And he said to me, Don't be a fool. And then he shared the gospel with me. He said, He said, Sherman, you know that Jesus Christ came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, so that you and I can be declared not guilty in the court of heaven, because the perfect righteousness of Christ is credited to those who believe. And man, he just he shared the word with me.

Ric 27:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

He's the one that said to me, Don't be a fool. The fool that said in his heart, there is no God. Yes.

Ric 27:36

I love it. There they are. Don't buy the lie, don't be the one, and don't be a fool. That is so great. So that kind of brings us you've been um a football player, you've been a uh coach for 33 years, and now um now you're kind of a movie star, okay? So we have a documentary um about your life story, and I don't know how I think probably it's it's pretty public knowledge now that most people know the story of you and Deland. Um but um, and I don't want to give away anything because I want people to stream the documentary because it is so good. It's called Show Me the Father. All of us have a fatherhood story.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

My dad was my hero growing up.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

My father was somebody who disappointed you. To have my father proud was my sole purpose in playing football.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I want to make a difference in the lives of young people the way my father made a difference in my life.

Ric 28:34

We put a representation of our father in all of our figures.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

I prayed for me and my brother and my mom to get through this night. I think we lived in seven different houses, kind of running from my dad.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I started losing my ability to walk.

Ric 28:49

We didn't realize the war that was going on inside of them.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

We should I could just die.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

This is why I do what I do. Guys like that. I mean, it was like the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

He said, I can tell that you already leather.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

I would get asked about family history if I didn't have any answers because I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Have a baby in 1972 and Allegheny company.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

She says back, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I'm stunned. It's real, it's really out there. This is really this is really weird.

Ric 29:40

And the Bible blessed us with everything. I declare that you are a beloved son in whom we are well pleased. You're pushing all the buttons that men want to hear their dad say. He was treating me like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Your perfect father changed the trajectory of your life.

Ric 30:08

And I wept until I couldn't wait minimum. You are unconditionally loved. Haven't I been a good father? I need somebody so I just had a chance to take a look at it a couple days ago, and it's just just an amazing um documentary uh highlighting your life for sure, but there's other stories inclined in that as well. And it's all about the father and focusing on the father. So um so that's where the story was, you know, depicted in detail about you and Dealon McCullough. Can you tell us that story or as much of that story as you're willing to give out here?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Well, you know, uh, yeah, the whole story, you know, definitely um, you know, Delon is a guy that I recruited when I was in uh coaching at Miami of Ohio. And uh, right, I left Seattle and go back uh to Miami, Ohio, and I recruited Dealon and you know, recruited in Miami, Ohio, coached him, and you know, for a year, then I left and went to University of Illinois, and we remained in we stayed in contact with each other and coaching. He became a coach and we talked and he came out to Seattle and did an internship. I believe it was the year after we won the Super Bowl. He came out and did an internship and with me out there. And so, you know, we have this great relationship, and so so it's uh so it's all good. So, you know, I retire and I come back home and I get a call from Dylan um right before Thanksgiving in 2017, I believe it was. Yeah, 2017. And, you know, I'm thinking he's calling me. I'm hey, he's got a job offer, you know, so hey, you know, I need to give him a call. You know, he's he probably won't, you know, pick my brain about it. So I called him up, and that's not what he wanted to talk about. He said, hey, you know, I'm adopted. That's yeah, you know, and that's great. And he said, you know, I started to look for my biological parents. I said, outstanding man, you know, and he said, I got my original birth record, and um, you know, and I found my birth bomb, and I'm rejoicing. Man, that's great. Man, I'm glad to hear that. He said, Wait a minute, he said, wait a minute, there's a little something else to this, you know. And then he told me, he told me his uh biological mom's name. And when he said her name, my heart sank because uh, you know, I knew Carol, I knew his mom, and I knew I knew her in a way that I could be this guy's father. So it didn't sink in that that's what he was gonna say. But before if it was, he didn't leave it much time because he said, I asked her who my father was, and she said, you. And man, it was like a bomb on her. Boom. You know, here it is. I got a 45-year-old son, a guy that I coached, a guy that we've been around, a guy that I know, you know, man, we're we're tight, we we talk a lot, you know. Uh people would tease us about we we we look alike, we talk alike, we walk alike, and I would pay no attention to it. Ah, man, you guys don't know what you're talking about. Why would I think that I'm his father? You know, no none of that, none of that was even registering with me, you know. And so when Dylan told me called told me that, you know, so he told me that. So I ended up telling him, I said, in that uh that original conversation, I said, I need to call you back. I need some time. Yeah, I I said, I need to process this. And I think a lot of people, a lot of people didn't understand that, oh man, you're being cruel to this guy. But here it was. I said, you know, Delan's Dylan knew he had biological parents he was looking for him. He was excited because he he found them. Carol, she knew she had put a son up for adoption 45 years before. She was excited. This was an answer to prayer. That son she put up for adoption had has found her. I said, I was the only one, I was the one who was surprised. I didn't know I had a 45-year-old son. So when I get that call from him, I'm I'm in shock. It's not a it's not a moment of celebration for me. It's a moment of, wait a minute, now, man, what is going on? And so I really know what happened at that time, Rick. I think, you know, I I felt bad about um being irresponsible the way I was in high school, that I was so irresponsible that I that I fathered a child and didn't know about it, that this young man grew up not knowing who his dad was, unlike I did, I knew who my father was and the difference he made in my life. And I hope that my kids, Shabon and Sherman, can say the difference that I made in their life, and I knew that I was responsible for him not having that in his life. And man, I was grieving. I was grieving over my sin. I was grieving over my irresponsibility. And I believe God wanted me to grieve before I could experience the joy of grace, the joy of this son that I didn't know I had. So I think God didn't I had to grieve over the sin before I experienced the joy of grace. And so during that process of us finding out, doing a DNA test and all that other stuff, that's what God allowed me to start experiencing the joy of the grace of this is my son, you know, and let's go from here. And so, and that and that's how our relationship has gone from there.

Ric 35:11

We're talking with Sherman Smith as he tells his football story and a whole lot more. You were his father before he even knew you were his father, really, right? You were fathering him like you did a lot of other people. Um, and he had he had the advantage of a great father without even knowing it.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So well, he was he he was so gracious to me, Rick, when he called and told me, he said, you know, he called, he said, look, first of all, you know, I'm not mad at anybody. He said, you know, we had he said, if you're not my father, that's great. We have a relationship. He said, if you are my father, he said, that's great, we'll build on our relationship. And I apologized to him for not being there. He said, You don't know. He said, You were in my life. He said, You made a difference in my life. So he said, You just don't know how much a difference that you made. He said, But you you need to know you made a difference in my life, you know, and you just didn't you just didn't know it.

Ric 36:03

And he's still, um, and you guys are very close right now, and he's still coaching. He's in Tennessee, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

No, I tell you what, he he was uh coaching at Indiana University, and uh he just accepted uh a job as a running back coach at Notre Dame. So he's going to Notre Dame to be the running back coach.

Ric 36:20

Is this is this all news? Are we breaking news here?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

No, man, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's news, but it's you know, it's it's it's old versus something.

Ric 36:29

I'm not the first one, okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

No, no, it's yeah, he's going to Notre Dame.

Ric 36:33

All right. Well, so that the that story to me is just amazing. And how the and I love the documentary because it really it unfolds um with uh Dylan, you know, talking and then you talking, and and uh then they intertwine it with some of uh with Jim Daly uh Eddie George and um it's it's really a well-done documentary by the um Kendrick Brothers. Kendrick Brothers, right. So I encourage people to stream that because it's available. Yeah, uh, I think I it's available through a few streaming, um, I think I saw it on maybe Amazon Prime, uh but I think it's also on Netflix. There's other places to get it. Yeah. I was a little charge for it, but it's worth every dime. So um, so I encourage people to do that. Um I'm interested in your observations about um uh it seems, although I couldn't find any substance to this, any documentation of this, but it seems like the percentage of Christians in professional sports is higher uh than it is in the general public percentage-wise. Do you find that to be true? And if so, is there an explanation for that? Do you have a maybe is there some reasoning for it?

SPEAKER_01 37:47

In 76, when I came in the league, um, we were very outspoken about our faith in Seattle. But there were still a lot, a large group of people that looked down on you said you you you're weak if you need Jesus and all that other stuff. But just man, people are more emboldened in their faith and more people more willing to recognize that they, you know, money doesn't save you, you know. Uh football is is just a career, it's it's you know, it's how you make your living, it's not your life. And I just see people, just man, particularly like you say in football. When I was with the Seahawks, every team that I was with, a group of young men that found out you don't have to be ashamed to say you're a Christian, you don't have to be ashamed to live for Christ. You know, instead of uh, you know, people looking at you like there's something wrong with you that you're a Christian, uh we say, man, we look at other people and say there's something wrong with you that you're not a Christian, you know. So we we turn that around. And so we we're not ashamed of being in Christ. And so we just found guys say, man, there's nothing to be ashamed of to say, I want to be a godly man, a godly husband, a godly father. And then, like I say, what happened? We uh a chapel speaker spoke when I was with the with the Seahawks, and uh we were, I think we were in Tampa. And this guy came and he said, you know what? He said, it's easier for me to talk to you guys about the need for Christ than it is to talk to my congregation. And this congregation was a poorer congregation. He said, because they believe if they get what you have, that's what it takes to be happy. But I can talk to you guys about it because you know that's not what it takes to be happy. You got the money and you've got all that, and you realize there's more to it than that. And so guys are understanding that man, I'm making all this money and I'm still unhappy. Rick, when we won the Super Bowl in Seattle, we had we had players and coaches, man, that went in the, they were depressed after a while because they thought it was gonna do something for them that it wasn't meant to do. You know, they thought, okay, man, we win a Super Bowl, man. My self-worth, my self-esteem, I'm gonna I'm gonna feel this way. And after a couple days, a couple of weeks, all of a sudden, that high, they came down off of that high, like, you know what, man, you know, I thought it was gonna I was gonna stay on that high forever. You know, and they were depressed, like, what's going on? Yeah, because that wasn't meant to enhance your self-worth, you know. Uh it was it was a game that we won. And so guys are understanding that, man, what makes a difference in your life is not this stuff that's so temporary. And so that's why in pro football, in sports, man, guys are outspoken because they realize that stuff is just stuff. There's something more to life than you know, playing football, basketball, or all those other things and making the money.

Ric 40:30

Yeah. Sherman Smith is our guest on Amazing Greats, as he shares much more than just his football story. Speaking of the Super Bowl, I hope you noticed I had my cap on here.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

I see.

Ric 40:42

So I want to see if you have your Super Bowl ring on.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

No, I'm gonna tell you what, I don't have it on. And it's funny, Rick. I mean, this is the truth. We got those rings, uh, what was it in uh June of 2014, you know, when we had our ring ceremony. I wore that ring for a week after after we got it, and I have not worn it since. And that's I just don't wear it. You know, it's like it's a big, it's it's a nice, big, pretty ring. Yeah, I'm just not into that, so I just don't wear it. No, I I take that back. I took it somewhere with me. I spoke somewhere, and somebody asked me to bring it because they wanted to see it. And I and I took it with me. But other than that, you know, I got it. It's a nice ring. And I hey, I tell you this too, Rick, and I never wore the NFC Championship ring for the next year. You know, when we lost Super Bowl 49. I didn't, I hadn't worn that one.

Ric 41:36

Okay, well, it's a couple of questions I always ask my guests. One is is uh besides all the things we've talked about, and maybe maybe we've talked about enough to to make the point, but the question is, is are are there real specific moments along your journey that you saw God just showing off, just um being so uh alive and a part of what was going on in your life that it was no mistake that it was a God thing. And of course, your your story with Dylan is one of those. But is there something else that you can pinpoint?

SPEAKER_01 42:10

You know, I I think for me, when I look back, when I look at the whole of my my Christian walk, I I think for me, Rick, it was just all the people that God put in my life. I I just think that God set me on a journey and he knew the type of men and people that I needed around me that I was always surrounded by godly men that just really spoke into my life, that really made a world of difference for me, that challenged me, that held me accountable. And honestly, for me, those were the things that I really knew is those just how those people just man, they kept coming in my life, and you know, and just the difference that each and every one of them made. Now to me, it became the most assurance that I've had. Like I said, the dealing story, how God directed my path. Hey, I just wanted to be a high school coach, and I ended up coaching for 32 years, 22 years in the NFL, you know, Super Bowls and all that other stuff. But God allowed me to have the impact uh to be in the lives of all these men that you know that I coach that I hear from today that say, hey coach, thanks, thanks a lot for the impact you had on my life. So I just see all of that as as part of, you know, saying, God, you had a plan for me. You know, it's like what God said to Jeremiah, you know, he said, I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb, I set you apart before you were born, I appointed you to be a prophet, prophet before the nations. And I know what God He said the same thing to you and the same thing to me. I knew you, I set you apart, I appointed you. And I said, I'm just want to do the work that God appointed for me to do, you know, and so I just know that God has work for me to do, and it's work that I didn't know I was going to do, coaching and you know, speaking and going out sharing my faith and understanding uh who I am in Christ. And I will say the biggest one of the biggest truths that happened to me, the turning point of my Christian walk. Rick was when Ken Hutchison came to me because part of my part of my testimony is Rick is that you know, like I said, when I told you when I was seeking Christ, I had all these people telling me how to live for Christ, but they weren't living. When I became a Christian, I became that person. I became that stumbling block. I became that person, man, because grace to me was okay, man, my sins are forgiven. Man, I can go out and do what I want to do. Man, my sins are forgiven. You know, man, this grace thing is pretty nice. Until until my friend Ken Hutcherson came to my house one day and asked me, he said, Can I I want you to do me a favor? And I said, Anything you want. He said, I want you to stop telling people you're a Christian. He said, Because you're making it tough on the rest of us who are trying to live for Christ. He said, Please stop telling people you're a Christian. He said, The name of Jesus Christ is being ridiculed because of you. And I knew he was telling the truth. And then here's what he said to me the thing that got me. He looked at me, and you can see in his eyes, you can see anger and you can see pain. And he asked me, he said, Don't you know who you are? And he started letting me know who I was in Christ. My identity in Christ and how that's supposed to make a difference and how I live my life. And that was the turning point in my Christian walk. Me understanding my identity, who I am in Christ, man. I'm living under new management. Man, I got the Holy Spirit indwelling me. I'm a child of God. I got a new purpose. Man, I was created for good works, man. You know, I got new motivation. The love of Christ compels me. So, man, I just had to understand my identity in Christ, who I was. And that became a turning point for me.

Ric 45:39

Boy, that and that was tough love for Hutch to come and just and just uh That's what Crimson. You're the problem here.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

You're the problem. That's what Crimson do. That's why I love you. That's why I love that guy.

Ric 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

You know, and coming from him, I knew it was coming from a place of love. I knew he loved me. But I knew he loved the Lord too, man. And so he'd say, Man, you're making my daddy look bad, man. You know, man, and so I love him for that. And that's kind of part of, I think I look at that that love that cut Hutch had for me, and that's kind of, you know, I look at him and part of my example as I deal with young men today, or people, man, love them right where they're at, but man, like I would go to Hutch and talk to him about my stuff. He never condemned me, but he never condoned what I was doing. He would always give me the word, encourage me in my walk. And that's what I do with people now, Rick. When I go to talk to a young man or whoever it is about their life in Christ, I always say to him, hey man, I want to encourage you about this. I want to encourage you in something that I see. I want to encourage you in this. And that's and that's really what it is. I'm not coming to condemn you. You know, I'm coming to encourage you. Like God says in his word. Let's consider how we can spur one another on to love and good deeds, encouraging each other all the more as we see the day drawing near. So I said, man, I want to encourage you in your walk.

Ric 46:59

Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Um, you have just been a joy, and and I know your story is going to resonate with our audience. And uh just God bless you and thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Well, Rick, God bless you too, man. Keep up the good work, man.

Ric 47:13

All right.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Thanks a lot.

Ric 47:15

Bye bye. Bye now. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Thanks for listening to Amazing Greats. I hope you'll uh share this episode with a friend. Hit like if you will, and subscribe. Your help in spreading the word is much appreciated. This is Rick Hansen. Take care and God bless.