Scientist Dr. Steve Osborne's Case For God From The Big Bang To The Empty Tomb

On this episode of Amazing Greats, we sit down with Dr. Steve Osborne, a lifelong scientist whose identity was built on evidence, research, and reason—until those very tools led him somewhere he never expected. From a childhood with no faith framework to earning a PhD in experimental psychology, Steve’s journey is one of grit, intellect, and relentless pursuit of truth. But everything began to shift when he encountered compelling evidence for Christianity that challenged everything he thought he knew.

What followed was a deeply personal and intellectual crossroads—where science and faith didn’t collide, but converged. In this powerful conversation, Steve shares how examining the evidence—from the origins of the universe to the resurrection—led him to a life-changing decision. If you’ve ever wondered whether science and Christianity can truly coexist, or if faith requires you to check your brain at the door… this episode will challenge you, stretch you, and just might change the way you see everything. 

If this episode got your wheels turning, you’ll definitely want to check out Steve’s book Beyond Chance. He breaks down the evidence in a way that’s super approachable—and honestly, pretty eye-opening.
👉 Grab a copy here: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Chance-Bang-Empty-Tomb/dp/B0GQ5BX8GL

"Amazing Greats"  is a library of interviews with highly successful people who have amazing career and life stories and who share how God has impacted their journey.  Hosted by broadcaster Ric Hansen & produced by Klem Daniels.   Available on Apple,  Spotify, iHeart, Google and our  YouTube Channel. 
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Transcript

Why A Scientist Talks Christianity

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm working with you with my first we have the pleasure today of and this is kind of exciting because we've never really had this kind of conversation on amazing greats, but today we get to because we have a scientist who's going to talk about Christianity and how the two kind of work together.

Ric 0:55

Today, our guest is Dr. Steve Osborne, PhD, who is a scientist and has his identity based in science over his many, many years of doing just that. Welcome, Steve. How are you? I'm fine. Thank you. Glad to be here. Good to have you. Uh I'm going to start right out with what kind of just give us a brief indication of what kind of scientist you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Okay,

What Experimental Psychology Really Studies

SPEAKER_02 1:23

I'm an experimental psychologist. And like I tell everybody, that's not the psychiatrist that you go when you're having behavioral problems. And experimental psychology does the sort of the science part of the field. We look at things like how organisms learn, how they acquire and store information and use it, uh, the relationship between brain and behavior and that kind of stuff. So my degree is really in learning, which sounds very subspecialized, and that's because it is just like just like medicine.

Ric 1:54

Okay. So that is the basis of uh where we're going to go with your science story. Uh

Growing Up With No Faith Framework

Ric 2:01

let's just jump back quickly. Was there any kind of faith story in your life, even in your earlier life? Did your parents take you to church? Did you have any kind of exposure to Christianity or any religion?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

The closest I came to Christianity is when I was in grade school. We lived behind the Methodist church. That was that was as close as I got. Okay. I think I may have gone to a couple of services at the Methodist Church because the uh pastor and his family lived on the ground. And I think uh for a while they had a kid about my age. So I think I probably went to some vacation Bible uh studies once or twice there. But that was it. I lived with my grandparents until I was 10. They were, they were not anything, they weren't necessarily hostile to the faith, they just they worked, you know. Uh my grandfather was very um unhappy with Catholics in general, but and then um my uh my mom and stepfather, the religion, we just never talked about it. It was it's not that people were anti-anything, they just were nothing. And so the whole issue of religion, I have to tell you, I don't ever remember that being a topic the entire time that I grew up.

Ric 3:23

So science was your thing, right, from the get-go. Is that what you were interested in in school along the way? And that's kind of where you were directed?

SPEAKER_02 3:30

It it it's a it's a complicated story. I come from a uh a long history of super dysfunctional humans. Um, really mostly illiterate. Uh nobody in my family graduated from high school. Well, that included my mother, my stepfather, my brothers, my sister, my grandparents. So education wasn't a big deal in my family. It just wasn't. You know, nobody I'm not even sure anybody can spell the word college.

Ric 4:02

Yeah. So and here you are a doctor and with a PhD and uh making a living being teaching learning, basically. Yes, talking about a flip-flop.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

You know, I think everybody's allowed to have a couple of things that they brag about. So let me share with you. So I grew up with, by the way, not not that being illiterate is is wrong. It's just the way it is. You know, my my grandfather uh had a a fourth grade education. He he could barely read and write. He was terrible with math. At any rate, so I come out of this this family. By the way, I left home when I was 17 and made my own way in life. So my brag is I got a PhD, which is pretty good from a hick from Boomer, West Virginia, which is where I kind of grew up. Um and I have three sons, two are physicians, they're all college graduates.

Ric 5:03

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Uh, and they have all been married now, I think this year, they've all been married 25 years. I have eight amazing grandchildren and recently a great grandchild. But out of out of nothing, out of dysfunction, um, and my wife has a similar dysfunctional background, we've been able to kind of be normal and and produce uh bright kids who are good citizens and functional, like I said, two of my sons are physicians. Uh they're all college graduates and they're all Christians. And uh I believe all that.

Ric 5:43

That's a success story right there, huh?

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah. No, no, I no, no, and I think that's worth bragging about. Not not about me, but about what God can do if you're just paying halfway attention to what he's telling you. You know, I never I never dreamed of getting a PhD. And in fact, I I went, I got out of the service and I went back to junior college, and uh I I I actually was spent six months in a hospital, was wounded in combat, lost the sight of an eye. So I got a little bit of disability money, and I went back to school, went to a junior college for a couple of years, and then um part of my disability was the VA would pay for uh my tuition in books. So I thought, where should I go to college? And I thought, we know San Diego is a great place, and they have a university there. And uh, so I applied to the University of California, San Diego, not knowing that it was this insanely academic school. And I only applied one place, it never occurred to me that I wouldn't get in. You know, I thought you applied to college and that was it, and you got in, and it worked like that. So I I go down there as an undergraduate, which is a really, really tough school, and um realized, you know, I decided to to major in psychology, and I realized that a uh bachelor's degree in psychology would probably be help you sell insurance or you know, make it be a barista at Starbucks.

Ric 7:13

But just to be clear now, back in those days, uh God had nothing to do with it as far as you were concerned. He probably did have a whole lot to do with it as he as we look back on it. But at that time, you weren't relying on prayer or even recognizing that there is a God.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

No, remember, I this is this is my godless pagan uh portion of my life. I just know I wanted an education only because I've spent most of my life doing the lousiest, crappiest jobs imaginable on earth, hoeing lettuce, being a janitor, you know. Yeah, not that there's anything wrong with that, by the way, but I didn't see myself doing that for life. And I know I knew I needed an education. So I get to San Diego and they say, Well, you know, you got to go to graduate school. And I start thinking, PhD, are you kidding me? Me get a PhD? It was like, hey, you can either get a PhD or go to the moon and fly around the moon about seven times and come back. I mean, it was that far removed, and I ended up going to Arizona State. Uh and that sort of in some sense started sort of started me on the path to science, but it also put me on the path headed towards Christianity. Really? Okay. And and the two sort of run along parallel. And then about my third year in graduate school out of a four-year doctoral program is where the lines crossed.

Ric 8:35

Really, okay. And so that's where we want to go here. And I want to know uh what brought your attention to that in the first place. I mean, here you are, your identity is in science, uh, and you really had no regard at all for anything divine. Uh, and there must have been some spark there that said, well, well, wait a minute, I haven't even considered this, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Right. So let's pick up the story. I'm a

Success And The Quiet Cracks

SPEAKER_02 9:02

third-year student graduate student. Um, I have a wife I love. I've got a couple of kids uh that I adore, of young kids, and I'm being successful. I'm getting my research published. I have the respect of peers and colleagues. Uh in fact, life was going swimmingly good for me.

Ric 9:23

I mean, I was doing everything I wanted to do. The downside. Who needs God? When you've got all that, who needs God, right? I mean, it's all good. Exactly. We're talking with a lifelong scientist who found his way to Jesus. This is Dr. Steve Osborne.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

So, you know, I other than being desperately poor, and and we were, I mean, imagine being a graduate student uh with two kids and trying to live on uh a uh a stipend from the school and the and the little bit amount of money I got from the VA, any rate. So I was doing I was doing great. I was about as happy as you could be at that point in my life. The problem was my wife was paying a big price for for my success. She was stuck at home with two kids. I always had the car. Um, so she really, really, and by the way, I was at school seven days a week doing research. And when I wasn't doing it doing research, I was dreaming about it. I was not, even when I was off, I was not particularly good company. Oh my gosh, yeah. So my wife returned to the church of her youth. She had gone to church as a kid. She wasn't a Christian, but she went back back to the church. And at the church, uh, she was invited to join a home Bible study, and she came to me and said, Hey, what do you think about this? And uh, by the way, I viewed Christians as people that uh couldn't handle life without the crutch of faith. I mean, strong people didn't need God, but bless her heart, I didn't think my wife was that strong. Sorry, sorry, dear. So I said, by the way, I've never been hostile to religion. I was just an atheist. I was sort of, anyway, so I encouraged my wife. In fact, I think I talked her in to uh joining the Bible study because I knew it would be good for her, and it was okay.

Ric 11:17

If nothing else, if nothing else, just for the social outlet, right? Just to be with other people. Exactly.

A Wife’s Conversion Changes Everything

SPEAKER_02 11:23

So something really unexpected happened, and she accepted Christ. And I'm like, wow. What? I was like, what are you doing? And I saw this incredible transformation in a human, quite frankly, uh that was as close to a living miracle as you can come. It really was. So that really that really got my attention. But the thing that really kind of flat, oh, oh, let me, I'm sorry, let me kind of back up. So she hosted, and by the way, eventually the Bible study came to our house and she said, Can we have it here? And I said, sure. And she thought I should leave, but I decided to hang around and see what this was all about. And I did, and uh, I was only obnoxious a few times.

Ric 12:12

Okay, there's there's there's there's the first entry of Jesus right there saying, you just need to stick around at this meeting, you know, even though it doesn't seem like you. And I liked, I like, listen, I like the people. The people were really nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Um, so and they started having these Friday potlucks, and that was nice because we didn't eat very well on our income. So when they had the potluck, I was able to chow down, and the people were super nice. And I actually thought initially, like, these people are being nice so they can they can they can spring the gospel on me. I know this is coming. Put up your guard, right? Yes, I like I'm ready. Uh, but it never came. The people were nice, we enjoyed each other's company, ate a lot of good food, and that was it. And that really surprised me. But let me go back to the story.

The Book That Challenged His Certainty

SPEAKER_02 13:01

So the Bible study ended, and the Bible study leader uh asked me on the way out. He said, So where do you stand with God? And I said, I'm a man of science, not of faith. And he said, Hey, I understand that. He said, But listen, would you do me a favor? Would you have breakfast with me this week? And I said, sure. So we meet and we're eating pancakes, and he gave me, he said, Listen, and I want to give you this book. It's called Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh McDowell. I don't know if you're familiar with the book, it goes way back, but any rate, and he said, I'd like you to review this book and tell me what you think uh from a scientific uh perspective. Now, of course, that was a ruse, you know. He was he was appealing to the only way that could appeal to me at the time, and that was my ego. So I get a copy of this book and I start reading it, and I think I shared with you uh beforehand, before the show, is I start reading this book, and I'm both stunned and embarrassed. Uh I'm stunned because everything I thought I knew about Christianity was false. I mean, complete, I mean, it wasn't like six out of ten. I mean, it was a hundred out of a hundred. The other thing, it was embarrassing because here I am, I define myself as a scientist. I teach classes and experimental site. I tell my students, hey, listen, know what you believe, know why you believe it and why you know it for sure and what evidence it's based on. And I realized that I was like the world's biggest hypocrite. I mean, I hadn't done what I was telling people to do. And I it's hard to tell people to explain to people what a what a um shock that was to me. I mean, true, I mean, really, really, really a big shock. So that that really got my attention. And by the way, this time people had invited me to Bible studies, and then a friend of mine, named Damien, said, Hey, listen, I'm gonna lead a Bible study, and I'm really, really nervous. You know, I don't I haven't done this before. He said, he said, you know, you're a pretty smart guy, so would you would you just come to the Bible study to give me moral support? Said, sure. You know, I'll do that. Yeah. And uh, of course, it was the once again, it was just a ruse. By the way, there was a whole group of Christians that were praying like crazy for my salvation.

Ric 15:26

Unbeknownst to you that you were not aware of?

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Unaware of, and by the way, it's not a fair fight. You're right there, yes. Okay. So I'm going to Bible studies, and then a fellow named Bill invited me to the Saturday morning men's breakfast for Christians, and I started going to that, and you know, would go to church with my wife for support. And so the next thing I know, I'm going to church twice a week. I'm in two Bible studies, I'm in a men's Christian uh breakfast, and I'm still a pagan.

Ric 16:00

Yeah. So at that point, you're still is this is kind of a social thing more than it is anything, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah, but it they're starting to get my attention. Yeah. Okay. And I went from being really, really happy with my life to being miserable a lot. Because there was this incredible, you know, I didn't, I didn't even know the word spiritual warfare, but there's this incredible spiritual battle that I was going through. And I mean, it was really it's hard to explain how emotional that was. You know, it's sort of it's sort of the you know, the good and the and the and the bad. I mean, they wake up at two o'clock in the morning and wide awake, put on a pair of shorts, go outside, sit on a rail, a railing fence, and have a cigarette and just look at the sky. And, you know, it was be like, you know, this Christianity really looks pretty good. I mean, you really like the people and it kind of kind of makes sense, right? And then, you know, then I would say, no, no, no, no, that's just that's stupid, that's crazy, I don't want anything to do with this. So there's this tug back and forth. So what I decided is I figured, look, I'm a pretty smart guy, I'm a scientist, so I'm just going to read through and review the Bible. And if it's if it's false, if this is made up, if this is a myth, I'm smart enough to see that, right? So I start reading the Bible, and I'm I'm really shocked because it doesn't read like a myth. It doesn't read like somebody made it up. It reads like it's really honest. And you see people saying things, you know, that are that somebody would never make up. I mean, who would make up a story that makes them look like an idiot? I mean, who makes up a story and says, hey, you know what? Uh the evening Christ uh was arrested, you know what? I denied him three times. How do you like that? I mean, you know, and then they said, Hey, I've got a really great idea. Let's women discover the empty tomb. This is this is the first century. Women had women wouldn't, you know, couldn't testify in court. They were they were deemed as unreliable witnesses. So I'm saying, you know, what fool makes up a story where women discover the empty tomb?

Ric 18:16

The title of the book, we haven't even mentioned that yet, is Beyond Chance. And then the subtitle is From the Big Bang to the Empty Tomb. Uh, so what about the Big Bang? How did how did your in your own mind start justifying uh the Bible's version of Genesis and the Big Bang Theory, one being seven days, and the other saying the Big Bang Theory is like um a million years of evolution? Okay. Your scientific mind, how did that sort it all out?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

So by the way, let me just finish my story really quick because it's just a couple of lines.

Accepting Christ With A 40-Day Test

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Okay, I'm gonna just a couple of seconds. A couple of seconds. So here we are. It's all yours, Steve. I've been to the mint breakfast, and my friend Damien said, Hey, listen, I'm in this evangelism class and I need to share this thing called the four spiritual laws. And I said, Sure. And when he got to the end and said, Would you like to pray?

Ric 19:11

It would like Rick Hansen with the amazing conversion story from a guy who didn't really want to believe Steve Osborne, but then did.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Everything that made me reluctant was gone. Every question was answered. I knew I was ready and I accepted Christ at that point. And became and became well, actually, I gave God a 40-day trial, uh, sort of like serious. And I said, Okay, God, here's the deal. Um, I'm gonna give you 40 days, and if I if I feel this way in 40 days, I'm I'm all in, and if not, I'll just go back to being a pagan. Now, of course, I never look back, and I've been a Bible believing Christian for about getting close to 50 years.

Beyond Chance And Evidence For God

SPEAKER_02 19:58

So one of the things that has bothered me really since that point was the um the misperception that there is an incompatibility between science and Christianity or science in the Bible. In fact, I read a poll recently that even even up to 49% of Christians think the two are compatible. You know, I I know the statistics we send young Christians away to college, and a lot of them end up uh abandoning their faith, and 50% of those do so uh because they think science is disproven the Bible. So the the gist of Beyond Chance, it begins it begins with the creation of the universe, but the gist of Beyond Chance is to provide uh scientific evidence, not here's some faith, just believe this, uh, but scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates the existence and the majesty of God. Okay. And the I believe not just there, but the whole book walks from the beginning of the universe to first life on earth to the diversity of life, what we call evolution, uh, through human evolution and the creation of Adam and Eve and why people are so remarkably unique. Uh and as we walk through, if you will, creation from front to back, the the handiwork of God is clear from beginning to end. And that's what the book is all about.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

And and not believe me, not not, hey, here's here's great, just trust me, have faith. Here is the evidence, and you, reader, evaluate the evidence. And I'm going to tell you what I think it says, but you decide for yourself.

Ric 21:50

So is that so that gets uh so the person that wants to jump in with the scientific mind wants to jump in and find out what that evidence is. That's Going to be found in the book? And is it is it written it's written in such a way that it's um digestible by virtually anyone, right? It's not it doesn't take a scientific mind to figure out what you're talking what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Absolutely not. The published version of the book is the 22nd version of the book. I probably spent the last eight or nine versions uh trying to simplify the the science in the book uh to the point where anybody could read read the book. I've edited it to a ninth grade reading level, and literally I think anybody 12 or 13 years old or older can pick the book up and read it. I've had some of my grandchildren when they were teenagers read the book, and I think people will find that it's very readable. So that's a really important point because this is a book about science, but it it's it's a book for the average believer. You don't need you don't need a lab coat to read this book. And incidentally, there's a there's a a phrase that I just came across a couple of days ago, and it started in the 1600s with the Royal Society of London, and it's their motto, and it's I'll probably mispronounce this, but it's Naulius in verba, which is Latin for take nobody's word for it. So I kind of I kind of want that to be the motto for my book. Don't take my word for it. I don't want you to believe what I say, I don't want you to believe this because you think it's consistent with the Bible, which it is, incidentally. I want people to look at this and uh discover for themselves. And what they will find is the evidence is really overwhelming. It really is. I mean, I'm not, I don't think I'm exaggerating. Uh, incidentally, if people go to my website, steveosbournebooks.com, first of all, they can they can watch about a 75-second trailer, but you can also download the first chapter and read it for free.

Ric 24:08

One of the things I think you said, I I I read your one of your lines is um that you ultimately concluded uh that it required more faith to remain an atheist in the face of science than to become and believe a Christian uh in Christ and become a Christian. Both for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

One way by a magnitude of ten times harder to be. The problem with atheists, atheists is they don't believe anything. I mean, so okay, support your position of an atheist. Well, I don't believe anything. Well, that's hard to that's kind of hard to believe. You know, the the all the atheists can try to do is to tear down the evidence for Christianity. And by the way, I have to say, they've done a pretty good job of that. I think they've very been dishonest in in that, okay, but they've done a pretty good job. But let me give you, by the way, I'm gonna tell you two facts, and I think these are astonishing. The two most significant things that's happened in the history of time is the birth of the cosmos and the beginning of life on earth, right? Okay, now science cannot explain either one of those. And if you don't believe me, then you're gonna have to belly up and read my book because it will show you, and by the way, it's not close. It's not close, and by the way, the universe does have a have a beginning. We call that the Big Bang, all right. Incidentally, science believed adamantly for for about 150 to 200 years that the universe had existed forever, and now we know that's not true, and that in the beginning God didn't create the heavens and the earth. At least somebody, somebody did. And uh if the universe had a beginning, then we have if science can't tell us why, or then we have to say, well, what it calls the beginning. Okay, and I can say, well, it was God, which is true, but frankly, that's not particularly scientific, that's more faith. So, what what by the way you'll find in the first chapter is there are five criteria that are needed to create the physical universe that we enjoy today. And if you look at at the Bible, you'll find out that God meets

The Empty Tomb And Resurrection Evidence

SPEAKER_02 26:25

all five of those criteria perfectly.

Ric 26:28

And now let's talk quickly about the resurrection. Uh, and you say that historically, uh, the resurrection makes nothing but great sense. Um, and some people think, you know, well, really? Uh, you know, he rose from the dead? Come on now.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

I know. All right. So the last two last two chapters are about the empty tomb. Uh the first of those chapters goes through all of the evidence for the resurrection. There are five areas. Uh, the crucifixion and and death of Christ, the empty tomb. The, by the way, these are facts that the disciples truly believed they have seen a resurrected Christ. Now we can argue whether they did or didn't, but they clearly believe they did. Then we have the conversion of Paul and his ministry, and the conversion of James, Jesus' half-brother, and his ministry. So if you're going to explain the empty tomb, or if you're going to explain the resurrection, you have to accommodate all five of those areas of evidence. Right? So uh naturalists have tried to come up with different theories to explain all of that evidence. And there are a bunch of theories. And by the way, in chapter 13, we go through all of those theories and say, okay, can any of these alternatives explain all five of these areas of evidence? And the answer is not even close. Not even close. In fact, some of the some of the evidence is so overwhelming. If you know the story of the the transformation of the disciples, it's crazy. So anyway, but so when you go back, there's myth theories, and we stole the creation account from other pagan things. There's the swoon theory that says Christ didn't die on the cross, he was just unconscious, and then he was revived in the cave, and and that's how we do it. So there are all of these theories that try to explain that data, and I walk through all of them. And the sad uh the sad truth for for atheists and skeptics is you cannot account for all of the data with with the different theories. And in fact, the resurrection of Christ comes as close to being a historical fact as you can come without being a historical fact. And I think it would be a historical fact, except we know we can't please God without faith. So there has to has to be a little a little bit of faith at the end. But I'm I will tell you that the evidence for the resurrection of Christ, as with the scientific evidence for his existence, is overwhelming.

Ric 29:10

It really, I mean, it it truly is overwhelming. Well, if you need solid proof that supports the Christian story, uh, you got it. Dr. Stephen Osborne has it for you today on Amazing GRETES. So your book could be considered an apologetic. That's what kind of this is the kind of book it is, which basically is trying to make sense of um the case for Christ. And in fact, one of the books uh by an apologist is uh Lee Strobel, who wrote that book, The Case for Christ. He was a journalist, so he took it from that angle. And then there was C.S. Lewis, who wrote the uh the book uh The Most Reluctant Convert, uh, and he was one of the greatest thinkers of his time uh to try to make sense of it all. And those are maybe two standouts, and now we've got the scientist, Stephen Osborne, who is telling us that science also uh justifies everything that we know about Christianity.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Incidentally, the uh the landscape of people, including a lot of scientists who set out to disprove the gospels, are now Bible-believing Christians, and many of them dedicated the rest of their life to ministry. Uh Francis Collins, who he and I probably disagree on some things, but uh he was uh was an atheist, became a Christian. He was very much involved in the Human Genome Project, was the director of health for about a, I don't know, 10 years or so. Incidentally, I actually have another book that's written. Uh I I set out to write two books. I decided to publish this first because I think it's the more interesting of the two, but part of the other book uh is the life I I summarize the life story of people who set out to disprove the gospel.

Ric 30:59

I want

Who Should Read The Book

Ric 31:00

to know. So uh for for in your mind, what would be the um the best hope that you would have for uh these kinds of readers to take from your book uh beyond chance? Thank you. Uh my mind went for a minute. Okay, so reader number one, uh, who the is the uh the cynic? The person not only doesn't believe in God, but what what would you hope that they would get from the book or take from it?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I would hope that I could I could demonstrate to the cynic that there's enough evidence there to lead him to take a second look at Christianity. No one's going to read this book and be converted. This is this is an intellectual book, and by the way, part of accepting Christ is intellectual, but it really comes from the heart. So, you know, but I don't think the heart will go where the head won't lead it. So for me, by the way, personally, uh the book, Christianity had to make sense to me. You know, I wasn't willing to commit intellectual suicide to become a Christian or to give up 10 IQ points. So what I found in instead was becoming a Christian made me a stronger scientist, not a weaker scientist. And and if an author can have a favorite quote since they wrote it, my favorite quote of the book is true science doesn't erase God, it reveals him.

Ric 32:20

Perfect. What about just the skeptic, the guy that's kind of like interested and maybe uh has had a background in spirituality? What what would they pull from the book? How where where would you take them on that journey?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

I think once again to to uh force is a wrong word, but expose them to evidence. And I tried to to write the book kind of in engaging style. In other words, you know, could this happen? Could this happen? What do you think about this? I think the intelligent force was God, but you can make up your own mind. So it is it is clearly has a Christian apologetic bias. I mean, the whole point of the book is to support Christianity, but I think it's objective enough and engaging enough to get people's attention. I try to go back in my own life and say, you know, I was a skeptic. I didn't believe in God. What would I think if I read this book? I think it would get my attention. Now, like I say, nobody's gonna read this book and run down and fall at the altar and accept Christ. Well, it would be nice if that happened, but but but I'm not shooting for that. Uh for the skeptic, I want to get their attention and say, hey, look, there's enough evidence here.

Ric 33:32

Take a good, serious, honest look. What about believers? How about believers? Do we need to anybody need to read that book if they're already a believer?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

By the way, I would hope that that every believer would read it. And I think there are a couple of reasons why I feel that way. First of all, I honestly wrote the book to try to honor and glorify God. And I, by the way, that only happens if people read the book. Uh, I think they will, I think they will be uplifted to see that the book doesn't find, does in fact honor and glorify God. But the other thing, I believe it will strengthen people's faith. Uh, one of the things that it shows is that Christianity and the Bible are compatible, that that Christianity and science actually are um, well, I want to say this, are sort of not co-equal, but work together to reveal the truth. Science re and Christianity actually reinforce one another. So I think that believers will will find their faith strengthened. And I'll make a recommendation. If any of your listeners have high school or college kids, please buy or steal or whatever, get a copy of this book and have them read it. If you have to pay them to read this, because I, you know, uh they're eventually, especially if they're gonna go away to college, college is a really dangerous place in today's world. And they're gonna go into to a godless college or being a Christian is not cool at all.

Ric 35:07

Yeah. And we live in a we live in a much more secular world today than we ever have before, especially in America anyway. Um so uh having ammunition, you know, being fortified with the ammunition that what you uh explain in the book is uh usable as you kind of tell the gospel story for sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

And I think once again, the uh evidence is so compelling. So if you go away to college and somebody's giving you a bedtime in biology, you'll say, okay, Mr. Smart Guy, so explain to me in 50 words or less how first life arrived on earth. By the way, ask the biology teacher with the PhD in biology. Uh he'll heem and hall, and he might talk about the RNA world hypothesis, and he'll have a bunch of what I call humma humma humma. The truth is they cannot explain it. That particular event still remains the greatest unsolved mystery in all of science. And incidentally, science will never solve that because you can't get from non-life to life without intelligent help. And by the way, that's not an exaggeration. Um I bit my house on that one.

Ric 36:18

Okay. All right.

Where To Start And Final Challenge

Ric 36:20

So, you know, we have uh we're we're out of time. I mean, I just absolutely love this conversation. Uh, we try to keep these to, you know, a reasonable amount of time so that somebody could listen to it on the way to the work or as they're jogging or whatever. So we've given them the nuts and bolts of what you're all about, what the book's all about. The next step for our listeners is to just go get the book and uh and take a look at it. It's it's out uh now or it's going to be out shortly.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So it's out now. And I would direct people to my website, steve Osloornbooks.com. There's a lot of information about the book. You can download the first chapter. There's information about me. So if you really want to know about the book and if you and you care about my background, there's a ton of information on the website. There's a link on the website that'll take you to Amazon if you choose to buy the book. Like I say, you can read the first chapter for free. Um so let's make it a top-selling uh book.

Ric 37:18

Let's do that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

By the way, it's my prayer that the book will sell well, not not because of me. I mean, I've sort of I've sort of had my hoo-rahs in in life, and I'm happy with that. Uh, but if people buy the book and read it, then I come a little bit closer to honor and glorifying God, which has been my original and continuing purpose.

Ric 37:42

Thank you, Dr. Stephen Osborne. What a great uh uh uh uh time we've had together. Thank you so much, and um God bless you.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

By the way, I there's hardly anything that I like better than talking about science and Christianity and and faith and how science and Christianity. Interesting. I mean, I could I could talk way longer than you could listen.

Ric 38:10

Thank you, Steven. Take care. Have a great afternoon. Hi, my privilege, thank you. Hey, if today's conversation stirred something in you, don't ignore it, lean into it, chase the truth. Thanks for joining us on Amazing Grace and our heartfelt conversation with Dr. Stephen Osborne. His book is called The Unchanced From the Big Bang to the Empty Tomb. Share this episode with your doubting friends, and we'll see you next time.