C.S. Lewis's untold story revealed by actor Max Mclean

Max Mclean may well be the foremost authority on one of the greatest authors and intellectuals of the past century, C.S. Lewis.  After all, Mclean has spent a big part of his life capturing the essence of  Lewis through stage presentations and now in film. 
Max Mclean is the founder and executive director of the Fellowship for the Performing Arts in New York who specialize in artistic performances through a Christian world view.
Mclean is the star of the movie, " The Most reluctant convert.  The Untold Story of C. S. Lewis", now available for the first time through stream or DVD.   Whether you are a fan of C.S. Lewis's many works (Chronicles of Narnia and dozens more) or not, this powerful biopic will  reveal the life and genius of one of the worlds great thinkers.  You'll be captivated by his conversion from atheist to theist and ultimately  to one of Christianity's  most vocal apologist.   The theatrical debut of the movie was met with such a large audience that it remained in theaters well beyond its original run. Now, "The Most Reluctant Convert" is available on line at https://cslewismovie.com/.    This movie is likely to become the defining masterpiece that memorializes the amazing life of C.S. Lewis. 

In addition to his incredible solo performances on stage and now in film, Max Mclean also makes the word of God come to life as the voice of the "Listener's Bible" (NIV).

PS   If you are new to C.S. Lewis I encourage you to read his book' "Mere Christianity".  It is not a light read and you may need to spend some time with it,  but it is truly a work of art. 

"Amazing Greats"  is a library of interviews with highly successful people who have amazing career and life stories and who share how God has impacted their journey.  Hosted by broadcaster Ric Hansen & produced by Klem Daniels.   Available on Apple,  Spotify, iHeart, Google and our  YouTube Channel. 
Please help us grow our audience by "liking", "subscribing and "Sharing".   Thanks so much. 

Transcript

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Ric 0:00

Hi, Rick Hansen here, an amazing greats. You may have heard of C.S. Lewis, who wrote The Chronicles of Narnia and dozens of other books. He's likely known as one of the century's greatest writers and is the subject of a new stage play and now a film called The Most Reluctant Convert: The Untold Story of C.S. Lewis. From atheist to Christian apologist, this movie is a riveting account told by actor Max McLean. Max is the founder and artistic director of Fellowship for the Performing Arts in New York and is our guest on this premier episode of Amazing GRETS. I hope you're as captivated by this man and this story as I was. What a great opportunity it is for me to take uh a few minutes to talk with uh Max McLean. And Max is new in my world uh as I had uh picked up, Max, just kind of so you know, picked up uh a book from a guy who I'd heard everybody talking about, C.S. Lewis, and the book that I read was Mere Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah.

Ric 1:10

And um I was just uh amazed because you can't just sit down and read that book. You read a little bit and then you say, What wait a minute, what it what did he just say? So that brings us to us, our conversation today. Um, because let me do a little introduction of you. You are uh an award-winning actor and the founder of an artistic group called the Fellowship for Performing Arts in New York City. You produced film and uh a lot of stage uh performances, and you're kind of the um what in my world, you are C.S. Lewis because I I saw the movie and you were so good in that uh that I had to keep telling myself, no, this isn't C.S. Lewis, this is Max McClain. So good. Um and so with that small small and short introduction, uh, tell us a little bit about how you uh first of all, tell us who is C.S. Lewis. Can you put that since you've spent a lifetime kind of getting to know this man?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, um I I would say if you were from uh Mars or something and somebody asked that question, uh it would probably prompt a lot of other questions. But uh he he is perhaps the most influential Christian writer and thinker of the past hundred years. And as a result of that, uh he has had so much to do with many, many people getting a deeper understanding of Jesus Christ, who he is, what he what what he did, and uh and putting it into kind of a perspective. So that's that's what he's known. He's an intellectual, he wrote uh dozens upon dozens of books. He was uh well known as a scholar in uh romantic literature in Oxford. He taught at Oxford from 1925 to 1954, and then he was recruited to Cambridge, where he spent his last nine years in 1963. He happened to die the same day that J. F. Kennedy was assassinated. So uh even though his obituary was on the front page of the New York Times, so was all that. Uh, but uh but uh uh one might think that his influence uh over people's spiritual lives over the past since then, which would be 58 years now, um uh one could argue that Lewis perhaps had more influence than even Kennedy.

Ric 3:52

Very interesting and and so true, you know. Yeah, the impact at that moment may have been uh thrust toward Kennedy, but uh, you're right. Uh we think and and uh are still gleaming the intellectual values of all of the things that he's written. And so I picked up a book um not long ago. Guy I heard about C.S. Lewis, uh, had not really jumped into that, but I got mere Christianity. And as I was picking up the book and reading it, uh, and then I got the audio version too, so I could listen to it. Yeah, uh, this the the insight and the um, as you say, it's so intellectual that you can't just get it all in one reading. You gotta read it again.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

No, but you're what happens is in you know, sometimes you know you hear intellectual stuff and it bores you. Uh in Lewis's case, you hear, you know, something profoundly intellectual, but at but it intrigues you. And you go, whoa, I don't quite get what he's saying, but he's saying something. And I and it would behoove me to understand what he's saying because it feels like uh my my life would be clearer, and my my understanding of my purpose on earth would also be more uh more understood uh if I understood what he was saying. Uh Lewis read everything from uh from the Greeks to the moderns. He had a steel-trapped mind that could remember everything. Uh and he had this incredible ability to translate it into magnificent prose and speech, uh, which he we did he did. It was just extraordinary what uh what comes out of science. I I think some people say he was uh one of the greatest writers of the last century. I think he was one of the greatest writers of all time. Wow. Um and uh because of the insights, the constellation of ideas. And and you know, you you're almost like intellectually and almost emotionally shaking because you know you hadn't heard this stuff before. And and uh, you know, you probably thought of Christianity as you know an obscure first century Jew. Uh, you know, how could that person be the supreme god of the universe? You know, that you know, it that just doesn't make sense. Uh and Lewis tells you, okay, let me tell you why. Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, you're intrigued, and it's so much bigger. And then all of a sudden, the reality of Jesus, liar, lunatic lord, becomes very, very uh powerful, very real.

Ric 6:18

And it's not for lack, I mean, there's no lack of analogy metaphors that he uses to try to explain what he's saying.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I mean, he's yeah, and he's so he's so concrete, so clear. Uh, and and uh uh yeah, but of course, too, he was also, you know, he had uh, you know, he didn't grow up in the oh, actually he did. He he grew up at a church home church going home. He said he learned the doctrines of Christianity uh at boarding school from men who obviously believed them. He learned the doctrines that he says as opposed to general uplift. Uh and he said, uh this is growing up, and he said the effect was really strong. It I feared for my soul, you know, began to pray, read my Bible, attempted to bay my conscience. Uh he said it didn't last. Many reasons for that. So uh, you know, and then he, you know, once he gave up the faith, uh he he said he became as non-moral as a human creature could be. Uh he he described himself of chastity, truthfulness, self-sacrifice. He said he thought as a baboon thinks of classical music. You know, I mean that's kind of the way he uses language. Um you know, uh he he spoke of of hating people he disagreed with and making up conversations which he could score points. Um but uh you know the Lord got hold of him. You know, he uh he was a vigorous debunker of Christianity, and uh but the Lord got hold of him, and uh as a result of getting hold of him, uh, you know, he he became one of the great apologists for Christianity.

Ric 7:54

And so that brings us to, you know, as much as as um I want to talk about you in all of this as well, but just to kind of uh to to um you know put into perspective the movie, which now this is really you're you're mostly uh a stage production um and and performer, uh but you created this film which is called The Most Reluctant Convert. Yeah. And it is the untold story of C. S. Lewis. And and I I saw them saw the movie, was intrigued, fascinated by his life. So let's let's just jump in and talk a little bit about him. Uh, but remind me that you're not C. S. Lewis, so that I we do get back and talk about Max McClain a little bit too. I want to know more about you, you yourself.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

So well, first of all, I'm an American and Lewis is a Brit. So there's a big difference there. As soon as I open my mouth on on this podcast, uh uh it's obvious that uh, you know, and Lewis was had the plummiest of plummy voices.

Ric 8:56

Uh can you give can you give us a little plummy uh voice? Uh can you can you recite something?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Anything I'd have to uh I'd have to uh uh says I'd have to figure out what uh at 14 I ceased to be a Christian. At that age, one barely notices. Uh all at school, all the teachers and book editors took it for granted that religion was some sort of endemic nonsense into which humanity tended to blunder. Uh that sort of one of the lines, yeah.

Ric 9:28

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that was um, and and so when I first um did my research on you, I was expecting uh a Brit, you know. And then to find out that you are actually an immigrant um to the United States and you went to the university uh university in Texas. Um so you are uh an all-American guy, um, but you came to this country way early. Uh you were just like four years old or something like that. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So you're the first thing I had to do was learn the English language, and I've been working on it ever since.

Ric 9:59

Yeah. I'm talking with actor Max McLean, star of the C. S. Lewis movie The Most Reluctant Convert. Tell us a bit of the untold story. Um C. S. Lewis was an atheist.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Um, so uh uh this uh you know he he he moved from vigorous debunker to the most reluctant convert in all of England. Those are his words, not ours. Uh, you know, part of it was he uh he lost his mother to cancer when when she was uh when he was nine years old. Uh she was the uh she was the foundation of the family. The family fell apart without her. Uh he he he had a uh a terrible relation with his father after that. Uh started before that, but really solidified after that. Um and he says one of the things he regretted all his life was his relationship with his father. He never was able to make that right. And his father died just before he came to Christ. Um so um uh and then of course he he saw the butchery of uh firsthand of trench warfare in World War I. And you know, as a result of his lifelong experience, he had this he called it ingrained pessimism. And he came to the conclusion either there's no God behind the universe, a God who's indifferent to good and to good and evil, or worse, an evil god. Um and uh uh and that sort of began to change uh you know when he got to Oxford. Um and he, you know, he met some really good people at Oxford, uh, people like J.R. Tolkien, Owen Barfield, uh uh Hugo Dice, and many others. Uh in you know, it's an illustrious group uh of people. And uh, you know, they they uh they sort of confronted him about his unbelief and and uh and in in in due time he came to a conclusion that uh you know his argument against God was that the universe was so cruel and unjust. But he asked himself, well, where did I get this notion of cruel and unjust? I I call a line crooked because I have some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it cruel and unjust? If the universe has no meaning, I'd never know it has no meaning. Uh and you know, he's he sort of came to the conclusion that Christianity doesn't solve the problem of pain, it creates it. Because, you know, pain would not be a problem if you lived in an arbitrary universe, you know, where things, you know, things just happen. You know, it's the it's the cards you were dealt with, uh, the cards you were dealt, the hand you were dealt. Uh, but Christianity becomes a problem when when you have good assurance that behind the universe is is uh a being who's righteous and good. So uh so that's where he you know he came to terms with uh what do I make of this God that I I have to owe my allegiance to him. But that of course only made him a theist. And he had no idea about Jesus. He you know, he uh uh he felt that he didn't understand how the life and you know he he said that I had uh um no uh uh no understanding of the incarnation, the God to whom he he uh he surrendered was not human. And of course, Jesus is human. That's the big that's the whole picture. And he couldn't understand how the life and death of someone else could could affect could have anything to do with uh someone else 2,000 years ago, yeah, could could do anything for him now. What was the point of that? He didn't get that, and uh and so uh so he spent so much of his time exploring that and he had such a eureka moment that uh he spent the rest of his life, you know, imagining what the world might look like as seen from heaven.

Ric 14:05

Was there a eureka moment for him? Was there a a moment that that that the light switched?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Well, you know, he uh he he had a couple. One was to God and and his understanding of uh, you know, he he went through stages. He was an atheist, a materialist. Then then he sort of thought that that the god of the philosophers was the least objectionable theory. Um and then uh and then from there, you know, he he began to to really believe and trust into God into the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you know, like the God of you know, the God of Moses who who uh heard in the bushing bush in the burning bush, who are you? And the burning bush replies, I am. You know, and he believed in that God. And that God was supreme, creator. Uh and he owed all his allegiance to it. And it changed his, it changed his worldview. But then he then later, the that so that was uh a eureka moment where he said in in the in the Trinity term 1929, I gave in and admitted that God is God, knelt and prayed, perhaps that night, the most dejected, reluctant convert in all England. And so that was uh a moment, and he and that to him was a moment of uh of despair. Because yeah, he thought, okay, now my life is not my own. Uh, you know, I uh and I I have to be obedient to this creature, but but he realized that's the truth. I I need to, this is this is ultimate reality, and I owe my whole, I know, I owe my life and breath and everything else to him. And so I'm gonna make it my duty to to press on, to, to get to know that that that being. You know, and not too many people would do that, right? Uh, but he did that. Uh and then of course the other eureka moment was uh as he said uh you know that he uh when he when he started understanding the gospels, and and it's a bit of a long story, but J.R. Tolkien really made him understand the significance of the gospels, and uh and he saw the gospel not just as precepts that you know, just uh good little uh rules and regulations, but as a hero's story about a man who is unjustly killed and then come to life again, and that this man claimed to be the son of that which is the giver of the moral law, the Ten Commandments, and also the awful presence atop Mount Sinai, you know, and and he claims that. And we, you know, we take that claim way too lightly. Yeah, you know, either this man was a raving lunatic, or else he wasn't as who he says he is. And if you accept that he wasn't a raving lunatic, then everything else becomes credible that this man was and is. Uh his death affects real change in our relation to this righteous and awful Lord. And uh, and so uh once he came to that conclusion, he said uh he remembers very well when, but hardly how the final step was taken. I was being driven by my brother Warney to Whippsnade Zoo in the sidecar of a motorcycle one sunny afternoon in the summer of 1931. When he set out, when I set out, I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. When we reached the zoo, I did.

Ric 17:39

Unbelievable. So so the the the film, the movie has uh met with extreme um uh delight by you know Christians and non-Christians alike all over the country, uh to the point where it was designed originally to be just a one-night showing, um, and then it carried on at multiple theaters across the country through the month of November, correct?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Till December 2nd.

Ric 18:07

Till December 2nd.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah, so it was supposed to be a one-night event. It lasted almost a month.

Ric 18:12

Yeah, yeah. Uh and now, uh we might I want to just mention this now, and we'll mention it at the end too. Um, that movie, uh, that film is available streaming. Um, and that's why this is a timely conversation because right now, not available in theaters, but is available. Uh, can you explain to us where and how?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, you can go to our website, cslewismovie.com, and it's called uh it's Video on Demand. You can download it uh you have till January 2nd, I think, to download it. And then once you start it, you have 72 hours to finish it. Uh and that's available uh until January 2nd.

Ric 18:53

We're uncovering some of the untold story of the author C.S. Lewis's life and Christian conversion with actor Max McLean. And I must say, in watching the movie, uh I first watched the trailer and I was intrigued by the trailer, and then um I had an opportunity to see the movie itself. And how the movie is um put together is fascinating because it's you as C.S. Lewis uh in uh middle to late age, I think basically in the 50s somewhere, uh, but your character interacts with the young scholar as well as the young child on the same screen in the same setting. And it was just an amazing way to pull this thing all together. Uh was that your idea, or you have a director that had that idea?

SPEAKER_01 19:46

That was Norman Stone. Yeah, because the the play, I mean, it began as a stage play. We're, you know, as you mentioned earlier, our production company, Fellowship for Performing Arts, is a theatrical production company based in New York. And we tell stories from a Christian worldview, theatrical stories from Christian Worldview. We tour. And uh, and this was a touring production, and it did very, very well on tour, and it's going to go back on tour the next year. Um, so uh I just I thought there was a movie here, but I didn't know anything about movie making. Norman Stone's a good friend of mine, and he's a uh a person I've known of for 30 years and then known as a friend for about 10 years. Um, and uh, and we have a very similar vision. Um, but uh, you know, he knows how to tell stories on stage. And so what he wanted, he he wanted Lewis to live in his memories and have some of his memories come alive. So you have the older Lewis uh talking about a memory of his boyhood, and then you see the boyhood, the boy, and you have an older Lewis talking about the young man Lewis, and you see that memory as well. And and then he'd go live there and be in the memory with him, kind of like in many ways, it's like Scrooge uh looking at his life.

Ric 21:04

Yeah. So now you as a performer, you've done that uh stage play as the actor on on stage, uh, but you've done other things too. And one of the ones I watched, um, which I was fascinated by is uh the Gospel of Mark. Yes. Um and what amazes me, and maybe I'm gonna ask this question um because I'm intrigued by the whole concept of being a one-man show uh of carrying 90 minutes uh and and and captivating an audience uh by just your movement, your your voice, and the words you're saying. That's got to be incredibly difficult to carry 90 minutes, not only just memorizing script, um, but knowing what to do at every moment during that 90 minutes. Explain yourself.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Well, you first of all have to have a good story to tell, you know, the uh as people that want to hear, people that want to hear the story because it it is a uh it is a loop interaction, you know, it's a circuit. And uh and so you're telling a story that they want to hear, and uh in the process there's a combustion that goes on that some very exciting uh things happen, you know, catharsis happens. Um and that's what's happened with the Lewis story, that's what happened with the the the Marx Gospel. Um yeah, it was uh it was just something I fell into because these were stories I wanted to tell. And uh they happened to find an audience that wanted to hear them. You know, Lewis has a huge legion of fans and and then people like you that are getting to know him. And and most of the time when you get to know him, you don't get to the bottom of it. You know, you just say, Whoa, this guy's got so much going for him that I want to sit here and listen more to what he has to say.

Ric 23:01

So, so what other uh performances have you actually done yourself? Um, did did you do screw tape? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I did screw tape, I did uh I'm working on uh uh another C. S. Lewis piece. I've done Mark's Gospel, I did a production of Genesis, and then I've done a lot of writing. I did the adaptation of uh The Great Divorce, uh worked with uh uh somebody else to do the adaptation of uh of uh a play called Martin Luther on Trial, it's a wonderful play. Um and then we also uh produce other plays as well that you know have already been written, Man for All Seasons, Shadowlands, etc.

Ric 23:39

Okay. So how did you let's go back into um the untold story of Max McLean. Um you you uh you have you been a Christian your entire life?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Um how did you uh I came to I'm I'm an adult convert. I I came to Christ in my 20s and uh uh it was uh discovering Jesus uh in a way that I had never discovered him. Um and that was through reading John's gospel, but also meeting some pretty intelligent Christians who led me in that direction. Um so that was uh part of it. And then they also led me to Lewis pretty early on.

Ric 24:17

So did you what did you have a uh an aha moment, uh a Eureka moment?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah. Yeah, I was about 23 years, about 23 years old. And uh after reading John's gospel, I mean, Jesus was gonna leap out of the pages. I knew that story was not just only significant and meaningful, but true. And uh, I mean, you know, my heart was overwhelmed by the person of Jesus. And uh and so I I also recognized uh instantaneously after that moment that I was loved. Um and uh and I also realized that uh all the creation before me at that moment, it was I I would happen to be in a beautiful setting, was created by someone who really cared and loved, that the ultimate reality was righteous and good. Uh and uh and I was also made aware pretty early on, like that was the first thought that came to my mind. The second thought was that I've been deceived, you know, that there was a a a uh alternative power that whose uh uh whose purpose was to deceive. And uh and so those two ideas uh came into my head, into my heart, uh at my conversion.

Ric 25:38

And along the way um in your career, um, is there been specific moments where um where clearly there was divine um inspiration or intervention to to uh to really have God showing off uh in in your I would say my my whole life would be that because of you know uh one of the interesting things about there's a uh a theological doctrine called providence.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

And and the thing about providence uh is that it's uh you know the meaning of it is uh is God directing uh the path, you know, it's like he has a plan for you. Um and we don't know it. But uh the the interesting thing about God's plan is um it's hard to see in the short term, but you know, I'm I'm in my late 60s now. I came to Christ in my twenties, so that's like a 45-year period. And uh you know, then you see the hand of God much more clearly, you know, because uh and also you you see yourself, you know, the the thing you don't want to do is compare yourself to other people, but you want to compare yourself to who you were before and then notice, you know, uh where you've changed, where you've grown. You know, uh Lewis Lewis says that uh we we have to admit that God rules only a very small part of our lives. Uh and there's a clear there's a clear line between God's part and the enemy's part, and that our job is to take new ground every day. Um and that's you know, and that and that comes through prayer, through fellowship, through um walking with the Lord.

Ric 27:35

We're uncovering some of the untold story of the author C. S. Lewis's life and Christian conversion with actor Max McLean. So now um how about the flip side of that? Is there moments where you thought, well, where's God now? Where what's what's going on with uh with this? That um an unanswered prayer.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Well, well, the thing is is that you know, prayer is request, right? And the and the key thing about requests is that may or may not be answered. You know, you know, and we make requests all the time. We ask for salt, we ask uh uh somebody to feed the cattle on holiday, we ask a woman to marry us. Uh, you know, sometimes we get what we ask for, sometimes we don't. You know, but uh uh the the the thing is is that and also you know, requ petition is uh is sort of the least important, you know, it's confession is the threshold and adoration the sanctuary. Uh so uh you know, I tend to see uh what I call misgivings or you know you know, the the this I think people get confused because we think of this place as a place where we're supposed to be happy all the time. And in reality, it's more of a our this life is more of a training ground, a try uh of of growing, of correction. And when you think that it's it's it it really kind of comes into perspective. So you don't have as many, uh you know, I get disappointments, but they're short term, they don't last long. And and and the first kind of the first thought I get is okay, you know, uh I I've there what what's the reason for this? What what do I need to do? Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm just so aware of how much grace God has given me. I mean, that's really it, because I don't deserve uh much of anything. You know, and I look back and I go, I mean, you know, like one thing is, you know, I lose things all the time, and I have no right to find them. And yet I do, you know.

Ric 29:39

So, you know, and that's kind of uh those are the yeah, those are the little uh and I've had a couple of those too happen where there there was there was no way, um, and it was gone forever. Um, but then I I would actually literally pray about it, and and I look at that as kind of God's little uh nudge. He's like, see, I could I could do this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, and I can do more than that.

Ric 30:03

I can do more than that. Yeah, exactly. Yes, indeed. Well, um, so so you've dedicated your life um pretty much, well, definitely dedicated your life to the performing arts and and how the Christian view. Um you you've most of your life has been uh dedicated to kind of bringing C S Lewis to us. Yeah. Um what do you have planned uh as far as is are there more films in your in your in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I think so. I think so. Uh you know, it's uh we kind of fell into filmmaking because of the pandemic, but now uh it's it's in our bones now that we want to do more. Uh film is hard though. It's so hard, it's so competitive. And uh uh, you know, finding an audience, so you have to really be willing to select the right material. But I also think that you know Lewis, as I mentioned earlier, you don't get to the bottom of him. So he's somebody that I'd like to explore again.

Ric 31:05

Yeah. Well, as much as we're as much as we've discussed the fact that it is in and out of the movie theaters, uh the most reluctant convert uh is now streamable. But I see it as being this is going to be kind of a um the premier remembrance or capsule in film of C.S. Lewis ongoing, and it's not gonna go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

I appreciate that.

Ric 31:32

I appreciate that. I hope so. Let's take a listen to the trailer from the movie, The Most Reluctant Convert: The Untold Story of C.S. Lewis.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I never cared for my name, Clive Staples. The world came to know me as C.S. Lewis. Perhaps you read my books. The Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe is the most famous, but there's one story that's not so well known. It's my story. And who better to tell it than me? Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Stop, don't just stop your father.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Your mother loves you very much. At fourteen, I ceased to be a Christian. She was the first woman to speak to my life. What I mean.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

So it uses his words. And and that, you know, and and the main reason was because his words are better than anybody else's. So so I I wanted to be uh I think the the thing that that makes the film memorable is you're actually listening to the voice of Lewis through my voice, but I'm just the conduit for for his words.

Ric 34:14

Another uh accolade for you um is that you also are the voice of the listener's bible. That's right. That's right. And that's available. Is it streamable? Is it on a Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

I think you go like to Bible Gateway or uh particularly in the NIV or the King James. That's what it, those are the two that I do. Uh, if you go to the Bible Gateway, if you go to the U Version Bible uh and you plug in uh the NIV or the King James, you get my voice.

Ric 34:42

Let's take a listen to Max's problem.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

The listener's Bible. How did Mary find out that she was chosen to be the mother of God's son? Listen to the Bible from Luke 1. God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, Greetings, you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Do not be afraid, Mary. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end. Luke 1. Listen to the Bible. It's great for the soul.

Ric 35:39

Chopped up into little um like minute-long pieces.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, they can do that too.

Ric 35:44

Yeah, which is is kind of cool because you know, people these days on the fly and they, you know, they they're trying to make room for um their spiritual life, and and this is a way to do that. So um, boys, it has been such a total pleasure to get to know you. This is one of these uh interviews that I've kind of been um a little bit intimidated by because you are such a talent, and um I'm so impressed with you as an actor and as a human that it's um I I really appreciate you taking the time and being with us today.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Delighted, Rick. Thanks for having me.

Ric 36:19

All right, well, God bless you, and I'll be I'll be watching and waiting for that next thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

All right, thank you. Many blessings. Bye-bye. Bye.

Ric 36:27

Thanks for spending some time with us on Amazing GRETES. All of the contact information for Max McLean and how you can stream the movie The Most Reluctant Convert is in the show notes here. I highly recommend if you haven't already to become more familiar with C.S. Lewis's works and particularly the book Mere Christianity, which I loved. I hope you'll share this with your family and friends. And until next time, God bless.