How to Make Your Home Care Customers Happy - Forever! (with Ginny Kenyon)

In this episode of the Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars podcast, host Ken Accardi sits down with Ginny Kenyon—a veteran home care consultant who grew her agency from the ground up and has since helped launch hundreds of agencies. The conversation, titled "How to Make Your Home Care Customers Happy - Forever!", dives into Ginny’s journey and reveals the secrets behind client-centered care that truly makes a difference in people’s lives.

About Ginny Kenyon and the Podcast

Ginny’s career in home care spans decades, beginning with her success in building a multimillion-dollar agency and evolving into a role as a trusted consultant. With a passion for leaving behind a legacy of lessons learned, Ginny shares the importance of truly listening to clients and tailoring care plans to meet their personal goals. The podcast targets professionals dedicated to enhancing the quality of life for older and disabled individuals living at home.

The Power of Client-Centered Care

A recurring theme throughout the interview is the significance of putting clients first. Ginny explains that while clinical protocols and best practices are essential, they only address the “engine under the hood.” What truly matters is knowing where the client wants to go—understanding their personal goals, preferences, and daily routines. As Ginny puts it, patient-centered care begins by asking: “What is your goal for care?”

Real-Life Success Stories

Ginny recounts several memorable experiences that highlight her approach:

• Frank’s Journey: A patient with severe COPD wanted nothing more than the freedom to get out of his chair and enjoy rides with his wife. Instead of rigidly following clinical guidelines, Ginny focused on what mattered most to him. By introducing a therapist and creating a fun, measurable exercise routine using marbles, Frank was able to reach his goal, even if only for a short period before his health declined.
• Adapting to Individual Lifestyles: In another case, Ginny worked with a diabetic client who struggled with strict dietary rules. Instead of enforcing an unyielding diet, she negotiated a flexible plan—six days on track with a “cheat day”—which led to improved control over his blood sugar levels and a better quality of life.

These stories underscore the importance of listening carefully and aligning care with each individual’s unique desires.

Other great topics covered by Ginny are 1) Tailoring Care Plans Beyond Checklists, and 2) The Importance of Educating Your Staff

Final Thoughts

Ginny Kenyon’s insights remind us that at the heart of every care plan is a person with unique needs and dreams. By starting with the simple yet profound question, “What is most important to you?”, home care professionals can transform the care experience. Listening deeply, tailoring services, and investing in staff education are the cornerstones of client-centered care that makes home care customers happy—forever.

Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars is produced and sponsored by Ankota - If you provide services that enable older or disabled people to continue living at home , Ankota can provide you the software to successfully run your agency. Visit us at https://www.ankota.com. 

Transcript

Early in her career, Ginny Kenyon grew a home care agency from one to five million dollars in just over a year. Then she went on to be a fantastic consultant. Today on the podcast, she's going to talk about the most important thing you could do to guarantee satisfaction for your customers. Enjoy. Welcome to the Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars podcast. If you provide services to keep older or disabled people living at home, then this podcast is for you. Now here's your host, Ken Accardi.

00:30

Well, hi everybody and welcome to the next installment of the home care heroes and day service stars podcast. We have an amazing guest today. I have known Ginny Canyon, Virginia Canyon, I guess officially with Ginny Canyon for a good amount of time now. It's got to be eight or 10 years since I first met Ginny. I think I first saw her speaking at the home care association of America conferences like on

00:52

consecutive years, she was one of the people who always came in and she is somebody who has not only did she run home care agencies, home health agencies, but she's also helped to launch literally hundreds of them with her consulting company, Kenyon HCC, Kenyon Home Care Consulting, where she and a team of expert consultants help people. Ginny and I actually sat down together when I was in Bellevue, Washington at the Home Care Association of America, close to where Ginny lives.

01:22

And she told me that she would like to really get at leaving a legacy about what she's learned in home care. Today, we're going to record the first installment of that legacy. And it's going to be called Getting It Right with Client-Centered Care. And with that, so first of all, hello, Ginny. Thank you for being here today. Again, nice to be here with you again. So I guess to get the conversation started, when we were talking a little bit before hitting the record button, you were talking about really understanding

01:51

client needs and I think in a home care agency, we're so often we're thinking, okay, well, what's that care plan gonna be? And a lot of times in non-medical home care, it's like, okay, we're gonna help with dressing and grooming in the bath and we're gonna make lunch and that kind of thing. And I know that in the agencies that you've led, you've taken care planning to a much greater extent. So let's just start with, what is the right way for a home care agency to put together a real client centered care plan?

02:21

Oh, thank you, Ken. Yeah, took a while to learn that one. We have beautiful protocols out there about everything in the world that pertains to taking care of people. What gets left out is the person themself. And being an older person myself now, I know what I want for my life. And you know what all your clients do too? You got to listen though. Listen to what they want.

02:49

And I've already had this discussion with Kent about my aha client. had Medicare. That was where I started out when VNAs were the only show in town and I worked for them. And next year I will have been in home health 50 years. So I've got a long experience here. Long time to learn. Took me a while. I'm not fast learner, I guess, but Frank was one of my

03:18

patients. He was a Medicare patient, but he also had home care because he was extremely disabled and his wife couldn't help him as much as he needed. And third time through my caseload and I said to Frank, Frank, you've been through my caseload now this third time and I don't know what to do for you. What is it you want me to do? And he just looked at me. Mind you, he's sitting there.

03:48

breathing, laboring with oxygen on. And it was difficult for him to talk. So I said, finally, right, what can I help you do that you can't do? What do you really want to do that you can't do right now that maybe I can help you with? And he said, well,

04:11

I want to get up out of this chair, be able to go across the dining room, the living room, down the front doorsteps, across the sidewalk, and get in the car to go for rides with Edith, my wife. And you know, I can do that. I can help you with that.

04:40

You got to let the therapist come this time. Remember I tried to get him to come last time and you didn't want him. Yeah. So I said to him, remember we talked about muscles and how much oxygen it takes to give the muscles enough oxygen that it takes. It takes three times as much oxygen to a deconditioned muscle as it does to a muscle that's conditioned. So we got to get you stronger.

05:10

That's why I want the therapist to come. And you said you'd let him come. So this is what I'd like you to do. Let him come, but got to remember now. Remember we talked about your medicines and if you're going to be up and active, you got to not only put your oxygen up, you got to take your medicine on time so that your lungs are as good as they can be. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't his favorite thing, but he agreed that he would do that. So the next week when I came,

05:39

Sitting between the dining room and the living room was this little table with two bowls. One was full of marbles, the other had three marbles in it. And I said to Frank, what's the game we're playing here? And he said, oh, oh, that's the therapist. He said he measured from my chair here into the, across the dining room, into the living room, to the hallway, down the hallway, back into the dining room, a hundred feet. I said, okay. He said, he tells me I've got to do 25 a day.

06:10

25 marbles in the bowl before I'm going to be strong enough to go for rides. It took Frank three months to get there. And for two months, Frank did what he wanted most, and that was to go for rides with Edith. Did I talk about anything else? I only reminded him occasionally about his meds, but that was it. He did his exercises, he took his meds, and Frank's goal

06:37

was met, he got to go for rides for two months with Edith before he died. I felt successful. He was successful. We all knew we were successful because we listened to what our client wanted. And that's a huge lesson. Listen to your clients. They'll tell you what they want and you work around what they want. Yeah, do they need a bath every week? Usually, yes.

07:06

and some don't want a bath every week, figure out a way to meet their goal. What is it they want? You can't give them new lungs. I couldn't do that. But I could help in other ways. And so can you. Listen to your patients, to your clients. What is it they want to achieve with their life? It's their life. It's their life. They get to make those decisions.

07:34

Your job is to help them achieve the things in their life with what energy and life they have left. Your job is to help them to do that, whatever that is. It was a great lesson and I carry that forward with every client I took care of afterwards. I always asked him, what do you want us to help you with? What can we do to help you do whatever it is you want to do? I had another client who I did that with.

08:02

bad COPD again, I was a respiratory nurse. these are respiratory stories, but he had severe lung disease, been a smoker most of his adult life and was an avid worker in his wood shop. And that was his goal. He wanted to get well enough, stable enough that he could go back out into his workshop and work in his workshop again.

08:32

And there again, I listened to what he wanted. And I said, all right, if you're going to work in the workshop with wood in your sign, be sure and wear your mask to protect your lungs from particulate. You have to do that if you're going to be able to work in your workshop. He agreed. He would wear his mask. Didn't like it, but he'd wear it. And I told him initially to also take your meds.

09:01

Take it slow, don't push yourself, wear your mask, and I think you can do it. There again, it took him a few weeks before he was really back in the shop. It took him that long to get stabilized with his lung disease. But he went back and worked in his shop and he worked, he lived another two or three years. And during that time, even after I quit taking care of him, a truck came one day and unloaded flower boxes.

09:31

my porches and he had made me those flower boxes in his wood shop. So you get rewarded in ways you never thought. But the biggest one is you feel so successful because they won and because they won, you won. And that's the way it should be. Patient-centered care isn't about you telling them what to do. It's about you listening and helping them do what's

09:59

critically important to them for what's left of their life. And usually by the time we're involved, we're towards the end of a person's life. We're looking maybe at a decade ahead, maybe, in some cases only a couple of years, but make those years be enjoyable for them and fulfilling for them, doing something that's important for them, whatever that is.

10:29

If you listen, your care plan should reflect that. And you use your knowledge of what you can do. It's kind of like, liken it to an engine in a car. I have no idea how they run. I don't really want to know how they run. I just want it to run. So it gets me from here to there. And that's kind of what your patients are. They don't need all the clinical jargon that goes into making things so that they can do what they want to do. Your job's just to

11:00

Use what you need to know to help them achieve their goals. So make sure that when you're taking care of someone, whether you're a home care or a home health, you're listening to what your client is telling you they want and what's important to them. We jump in when we were talking a little ahead of time and you gave me a little preview into this story and you mentioned this quickly. You said that this was the third time through your caseload. So I think what that probably means is that this guy, his name was Ralph.

11:31

Frank. Oh, Frank, sorry. Okay, so Frank had authorization for home health care, I guess in this case from a respiratory nurse for his COPD. And he had actually come through a couple of times. and I think that, I mean, you started by saying that there's all kinds of, you know, protocols where we have the, the best practice of care where, you know, like all kinds of very smart people have said, well, when somebody has this condition, you do this and

11:59

Did I, am I kind of getting the impression that the big learning for you was that probably the first time and the second time through you went through that whole book of, you know, nicely written instructions and you did everything it said, but maybe you didn't really achieve what Frank was looking for. Is that, is that, you know, I'm just trying to figure out, mean, how did that aha moment come? And it's probably when you learned that it's like, well, it's great to have, you know, these clinical pathways and these best practices and procedures in here. But, you know, once I started asking.

12:29

you the client, what they really want to do in their life and with their life in their state that that's kind of how, how things changed around. Am I, am I kind of getting it right there? You got it right. We have beautiful protocols for everything, everything, if it has to do with healthcare, but it's like that engine under the hood. It operates in the background to help you get from here to there. And your job is to find out where they want to go. And then you help them get there.

12:59

And yeah, it wasn't aha. And I carried, I've carried it forward with in my business, in my healthcare life, ever since. And that was early on in my career in home health and home care. It was early on and it's really important. So when I hear patient centered care and I look at what they're doing, what they're most often not, it's all these beautiful protocols and

13:27

The patient's got to do this and the patient's got to do that. And then you get here and then you get there and patients don't do it. They don't, your clients will do what they want to do. Even if what you're telling them is probably the best thing for them. But if you can hook it, hook what you're telling them is best for them to something that's really important to them, I find that they'll do it.

13:55

It's like I had others that I use this for one in particular. He was a diabetic, didn't want to follow his diet. He didn't like it. And I didn't blame him. I mean, it's pretty restrictive. And so I just worked with him. said, okay, what's most important to you about how you're getting on and how you're feeling? He didn't like it when his diabetes was not, was out of control. He admitted that. And I said, well,

14:24

What are you willing to do to help get it under control? I said, I can, we've been through diets before and I know it's crazy for you. You don't like it. How about we do this? I'll make an agreement with you. Six days in the week, you follow the diet. On the seventh day, it's a cheat day and you can do whatever you want, eat whatever you want. Just know that if your blood sugar's way up the next day, you got to take some slow acting as well as your regular insulin.

14:55

Can we agree to that? And he did. And a month later, his doctor called me and he said, how did you get him to do that? I've been talking to him for three years about staying on a diet. I just said, I made an agreement with him. He said, oh, okay. He didn't ask what he just said, okay. He never stopped long enough to hear the agreement, but he really was successful because he had.

15:23

Eating was important in his life. He was one of those people who loved to eat. Well, who doesn't? But he particularly did. And his diabetes really cut down on the things he loved to eat. But he had a cheat day so that he could eat the things he really loved. The next day he had to really work with his blood sugar to get it back down to normal. Because it could, he did kind of go overboard on his cheat day regularly, which was okay. It was his cheat day. So it's that kind of thing of listening to your client.

15:53

What's important to them? What do they want to do with their life? It is their life. So listen to them and work around whatever you have to to help them achieve their goal. And there's always a way around.

16:09

Yeah, I was just actually logging into a system. We make home care software. one thing that, so we're not really the people who should be telling folks how to run their business, but I'm thinking of, here I'm logging in, I'm not gonna share the screen or anything, but to just a Missouri Medicaid home care situation where what happens is that when,

16:37

the agency gets a referral, they, somebody else, you know, in the context of case management has gone out and they've tried to figure out, you know, how much care, I mean, how many units of care, how many hours of care this person needs. And then they come back with what they call, you know, the plan of care, right? And I mean, it's literally a bunch of check boxes and I'm reading somebody's plan right here. And it says,

17:06

assist with toileting, bathing, change linens, clean bath, clean floor, clean kitchen, clean and maintain equipment, dressing and grooming, essential transportation, laundry, make beds, meal prep and eating, mobility transfer, tidy and dust, trash and wash dishes. And in the sense of having a very nicely structured program and knowing what tasks the person should be able to do, this seems like a good start.

17:33

But actually, one of our buddies in the field, went to his boot camp. went to the Steve the Hurricane boot camp. And he was talking about care coordinators. And he said, so one way that the care coordinators make a difference is that when they're opening a client and they have that plan of care and they say, well, there's some prepare meals, clean dishes, and all that kind of thing.

18:02

what the care coordinators know how to do is they like to find out, okay, you know, like, what do you like for your breakfast? You know, and when do you, you know, do you want like, you know, when do you want your bath? Do you like your bath in the morning? You know, how do you, how should we take your bath? And, you know, based on that we went and we, made it so, uh, you know, in the software, in addition to just having, you know, what the name of the task is, you could put in as much description as you want. It'll tell the caregiver, you know, how that individual likes their

18:31

Services to be performed so you can say oh, yeah, you know, they like they like this food They don't like that food or they they like their bath to be taken this way and they like their bath to be you know the first thing in the day or they like their bath, know after they've had their breakfast and and all those types of things like that, so I guess that you know, just in this series of getting it right and When we're just dealing with a power professional Caregivers who are you know brought in? I mean, what are your thoughts on taking that?

18:59

sort of clinical, here's the handbook. know, somebody came in and they said, here's the 12 tasks that this person needs, kind of converting that to something that really helps the person thrive. I think the important thing I learned with all of this, and I've got it on my own care plan, I gave my doctor, on the very top, it says, my goal for care. everything in my plan is around what my goals for care are. And I think if we start with that, at the very top,

19:29

before we create a care plan, you stay, ask the client, what is most important that we can do for you? It might surprise you. All those tasks are great. And yeah, they probably need to be done. But like you just mentioned, do they need a bath three times a week? As you're older, probably not. And frequently they'll say to you, no, I don't want a bath today.

19:56

They don't need to have a bath every single day, but you need to listen to what is important to them. What can I do for you to make your life better? What is your goal here? I think if you ask that first, the rest of the care plan gets pretty simple. It really is. Those tasks you mentioned are just tasks. They aren't anything particular to, they make the environment great and they help with personal care, but

20:26

Where is all this going? What's the purpose? You're in there to care for somebody, but if you don't know what's important to them, it's probably not the same as what's important to me or what I think is important. That's what I've learned. What I think is important is kind of under the hood of the car. What's really important is who's sitting behind the wheel and driving. What do they want? What do they want? And let's work around with that.

20:55

And you're right, some people are not morning people. They don't have breakfast till 11. So if you've got an aide and you've got prepare breakfast and do all that and they have breakfast ready at 8 a.m.

21:10

You're going to have an unhappy client. So listen to your client. What's important to them. Do they want breakfast prepared? Yes or no. Some people don't eat breakfast. I found. I felt like they needed breakfast, but that was me. They didn't want breakfast. They waited until noon or one. Then they had something to eat and they might have something at seven or eight o'clock at night. And that was it. I was trained.

21:39

meals a day, you could have snacks in between, but some people that's their lifestyle and you need to respect that. Listen to your client, what's important to them, how do they live their life and sickness always changes it to some degree, but as much as you can keep it the way it's been for them, the better everything will be because we all get into our habits.

22:08

Those are important. They're important to us because we don't have to think about it. We just do. And when you do things contrary to someone's habit, it might get them upset a little. They get annoyed with you or they just don't say anything, but they're annoyed anyway. Listen to you. Ask first, what can we do for you? What's most important for us to do for you? I had one lady who

22:38

She was a boy, she was a little pickle. They fired three agencies that fired her because she was so difficult to take care of. And so when I got the call to go in and take care of it, it was a home care case. And I said to her, well, what do you need? What can we do for you? I don't need anything. I said, okay, well then maybe we'll just go. Well, no.

23:07

Now they said I have to have someone in here taking care of me. She lived in a home. They wouldn't take care of her anymore because she was so difficult. And I said, well, we can do that, but I need to know what's important to you. Well, I just need someone here to help me when I need to get up. I'm not steady on my feet. I said, okay. And her daughter had already called me and wanted a white middle-aged lady to care for her. And I didn't have any, they were all scheduled on visits,

23:37

on cases and all I had were some wonderful East African gentlemen who were the best caregivers ever. And I told her that I said, these are the gentlemen I have, but if you are not respectful of them, we can't come back. All right, all right, all right. So for the first week, the boys, as she got to call them, had to sit outside her door in the hallway, the door to her apartment.

24:06

They had it cracked open so they could hear her when she called for them.

24:11

The next week, she allowed them to sit on the Davenport with her bedroom door cracked. So when she called for them, they could hear her. And the week after that, she wanted them sitting by the bed. I said, absolutely not. They will be in the living room with the door cracked. You call when you need them. They'll come and help you to the bathroom and back. A month and a half later, her daughter called and said, we would like to take both boys on the...

24:39

a yacht with us up to Alaska. We used to take mom all the time, but she was so difficult to take care of. But if the boys go, she'll be fine. But we want to take both of them and pay both of them while they're there. And I said, let me talk to them and make sure it's okay. It was okay. They both took that two week trip up to Alaska on the yacht. It was a huge thing, I guess, slept something like 20 people. But anyway, when they came back,

25:08

The daughter approached and said, is there any way we can buy the contract for the boys? Mom is not willing to part with them. She feels so safe with them because she doesn't, she knows she's not going to be dropped. She's not going to fall because they're strong and they're very respectful. I said, let me talk to them and find out. And they did buy out their contract, but I listened to what was important to her. She was a little cranky.

25:38

And her whole lifestyle had changed. And I understood that. She couldn't do the things she used to do. And she was out of sorts. everybody was telling her what to do.

25:52

The East African cultures are extremely respectful of elders. They are very revered in their culture. In fact, one of the young men that came from, he was from Somalia, and he had been sent by his family to learn how to take care of elders because he had been picked out of the nine children to take care of them, his parents, when they got older. It was a privilege and an honor. And that's how they approached.

26:22

It was no wonder they wanted to buy my boys out from under me. it was, it's another lesson in learning to listen to what was important to her. I couldn't make her life go back to the way it was before. I didn't have that skill, but what I could do is do as much as possible to make her life as easy as possible. And as it turns out, her big fear was being dropped, falling because she was really unsteady on her feet.

26:52

And once we realized that, we were able to do it. And the end result is I lost two really good caregivers, but she had two best ever that came through my agency. And I was delighted to have be able to do that for her. Well, that sounds good. All right. So I have like maybe one last thought here is that, you know, with with your experience both as a nurse and working with, you know, the non-medical

27:20

home care side, you know, our caregivers, they, you know, we, try to give them good training and that kind of thing. But I'm sort of wondering, like, did you ever Institute in your, in your care plans, just things that, that, you know, they should look out for that might signal that something bigger is going on than, you know, kind of the normal routine. And that might lead maybe to

27:49

you know, a hospitalization or an exacerbation of a condition and, know, so what would be kind of your, your list of, of things that, you know, if you were going to train, say, Hey, these are, these are the things I want you to tell me about, you know, back at, know, back at headquarters, because if these things happen, it might mean that something bigger is going on. Well, you've got to look at the diagnosis and, the yellow and red flags for that diagnosis for congestive heart failure. It's

28:18

three pounds. They have to be weighed every day. First you get them up, empty their bladder, weigh them. And if they're three pounds heavier today than they were yesterday, that's a yellow flag that we need to take care of immediately. That would be something I'd need to be notified about. Increased shortness of breath with someone with COPD. And there again, what looks like shortness of breath to me may not look like it to a caregiver who's not trained.

28:48

So you have to describe and you have to have questions they can ask. Are you feeling shorter of breath today than you did yesterday? I would put that down on the care plan. Notify me if they look short of breath and they say to you they're more short of breath than yesterday. The problem is educating. And I do have chronic disease education that

29:16

We'll probably be out in January again. They're eight hour courses. I wish I'd done them back when I was running agencies because then all the aides would know when I would say this and this and this, if any of this happens, you need to call me immediately. And they would recognize it. As a matter of fact, I field tested the COPD and CHF on the acute wing of a nursing home floor, an acute wing and

29:45

boy, did they get it. Those aides knew immediately. And my husband was in and out of that nursing home and I happened to sit on the board of directors. So I kind of had an in, but he complained to me one of the times when I got in, he said, he was really grouchy. And I said, what is going on with you? And he said, they keep waking me up at seven in the morning, make me pee and then make me walk down and get my weight on the scale. And I said,

30:13

Good for them. That's what they're supposed to be doing. You have congestive heart failure. They said, well, it's really inconvenient. And I said, I know it is, but dear, it's making you, keeping you out of the hospital and it's going to make it better so you can come home. And he still was grouchy about it, but they had it. the thing is the three months prior to us doing the education, they'd had 13 CHF and three COPDs readmitted back to the hospital.

30:42

off the acute wing. The acute wing is the same as a hospital floor. There's no excuse for that. And matter of fact, they get penalized for that. get the DSHS fines them for that kind of thing. so six months after everybody got educated, got their eight courses, they had our courses for the two. It was zero and zero for the whole 164 bed building because the MDS nurses worked the entire building.

31:11

not just the acute wing. A year later was zero and zero, three years later it was zero and zero readmits for those two diagnoses. So education is powerful and it's really hard to tell AIDS what they need to be looking for if they're not educated. my best advice to home care agency owners, educate your staff.

31:40

educate, educate, educate. The more they know, the better they'll be able to recognize and let you know when someone's in trouble. And that goes a long way towards increasing your referrals. Because if you keep those people well, the word gets out and you get more people calling you to come take care of their loved one because you did such a good job over there. educate. I love it.

32:08

Well, I think time flies when we're having fun. think we're going to call it, call this one to an end. But I think that really getting it right with client centered care and the biggest message of all, is just start with what's your goal for care? What can we do to make you happier? And you gave such great stories and somebody who, I mean, essentially the agencies are, like you use the term correctly, the agency is firing the client because they're

32:38

They're so grumpy to get along with and that kind of thing. then when, you know, I like the fact that when you, uh, you know, when you greeted them, they said, I don't need anything. Right. And then you said, uh, they said, okay, well, maybe, maybe we should just go and she said, no, no, no, I have to have somebody around. then, you know, so I guess in that way, it wasn't a direct answer to, know, what do you want help with? But you were able to, you know, find out that the instability was, um, you know, it was really what.

33:08

prevented her from, you know, enjoying what she could be enjoying in her life with her family and with travel and things like that. And then, you know, and then in other places where you had a strong relationship with Frank, you know, you were able to really just kind of ask Frank and say, know, I mean, you know, what, what do you want to do? I mean, we're not going to, we're not going to be able to give you brand new lungs and that sort of thing. But, you know, you really figured out what he wanted to do and use that as a way to

33:36

really get him to adhere to care. mean, these are really powerful stories and I think everybody who hears them are going to enjoy them a lot. All right, so with that, we're going to call it wraps for today. So Ginny Kenyon can be reached through Kenyon hcc.com. So yeah, that's Kenyon, K-E-N-Y-O-N-H-T-C, which stands for homecareconsulting.com. And Ginny, can you remind us what's the phone number if somebody wants to reach your agency?

34:06

It's the phone number is 206-721-5091. 5091. And yeah, so you are in the Pacific Northwest, but and I know that you're an expert in, you know, Washington, Oregon, California and that kind of thing. But I also know that you've helped and you have the staff around the country and you've helped people in so many different states. So so with that, that's how you can get in touch with Ginny. And like I said, you'll be hearing some more.

34:33

episodes in this getting right series where Ginny shares what she's learned. And with that, we thank you again for joining us today. And thanks to all of our listeners on the podcast. Thanks, Ginny. Thank you, Ken. Appreciate it. Appreciate you.

34:51

Thanks for joining us today on the Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars podcast produced by Ankota. You can listen to back episodes by visiting 4HomeCareHeroes.com. That's the number 4, then the words 4 Home Care Heroes dot com.