The one where we're back and we've spiced things up! Recaps, new co-host, and influencer scams

Its been a two year hiatus for Top Up but Rhi and Skye are finally back...and they've brought a friend. Good things come in threes right?! The gals are recapping what they've been up to, where their kids and families are at, introducing Katie and chatting the netflix series Apple Cider Vinegar, plus Katie's real life experience with an influencer scam. Grab a drink, grab your girls, you're in good company. Who's ready for a top up?

Suggested pairing for this episode is not apple cider vinegar but instead a crisp coupe of Arras Late Disgorged 2007 (its a special occasion after all).

Transcript

Skye 0:28

Ready! Ready! Empty water. Doesn't matter.

Skye (2) 0:37

That's not self care, okay?

Skye 0:41

Not looking good. I'm not even sure it's my glass.

Skye (2) 0:44

yeah, My children are always stealing mine. we are so excited to have Kay on board. I feel like this has been such a long time coming. yeah, she was our first guest. She's been our photographer behind the scenes.

Skye 0:58

Oh, yeah.

Skye (2) 0:59

Yeah. Always want to listen and comment on how, how we did with a, with an episode. So,

Skye (3) 1:05

welcome Kaye. We're so happy. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Yay. Can't wait to get into some juicy chats.

Skye (2) 1:12

You know, I know I'm pumped. And so excited just to be back topping up with you

Rhi 1:17

all. It's been a long time.

Skye (2) 1:20

Gosh, it's taken some

Rhi 1:21

real effort to make it.

Skye (2) 1:26

so it has been two years since we last recorded and a lot has obviously happened in that time. I'll do a quick rehash of my life. my twin girls are now four, nearly five in a couple of weeks, which is just wild. And I can't believe how fast that has gone. and my oldest has just started year one. then my stepson has just finished year 12 and is off in the big bad world, which is just wild. And I'm like, The way we communicate now is through Instagram so yeah, times have really, really changed. I'm still working, as well as juggling mom life and, My other passion, which is my writing, which I've really thrown myself into the last couple of years, more than ever before in the hope that one day I will realize my dream. You will, you will always known you will. Absolutely. Riri, what about you? What have you been up to the last two years?

Rhi 2:26

Just a little bit, just a little bit bit on here. it's gotta be some ADHD going on. I've actually booked an appointment for that, but we'll talk about that another time. yeah, I want to hear more about that. Yeah. I'll let you know once I've seen it. So last three years we've been here in Mooloolamba. I met you guys in Gundaroo when we were down there, for three years. we moved back to our hometown in the Northern Rivers. this is home for us. we've got two kids, Val, he's eight now in year two and Penelope is six and heading off to kindergarten on Monday. I dabble in a few things, depending on what the mood is. I just check the weather and decide, But at the moment I'm working with my mother in law, at her florist, and I'm doing a flower school course I feel

Skye (2) 3:26

like that's every country girl's dream at some point in their life. having a cute little shop and like, it's just. Romance written all over learning to do it in Byron Bay.

Rhi 3:37

sounds a bit like something on influence and thing. You'll see, like, come with me to learn about flowers and Byron Bay. Yeah. But I would watch that

Skye (2) 3:48

Like I'm, I'm here.

Rhi 3:53

What about you Katie?

Katie 3:55

So my gosh, two years, we just hit 12 months, living in Vanuatu. So we packed up from Gundaroo where, we met new beautiful souls and sadly said goodbye just for a little while. My youngest, Florence, is four and a half and my eldest is about to turn seven. she's in year one and navigating school, which is exciting, going really well, feel very grateful for that. And yeah, just learning how to live in a third world country after the biggest earthquake in 20 years, really crazy. How is it all going over there? Look, it's actually pretty good. I think as expats, we really do live on the lucky side of the line. Our houses are structurally sound. We have a nice little pool for the kids to go swimming in. The most disruption really is the center of town where we went to our big fruit market and sort of the main hustle and bustle is gone. So the traffic's pretty bad now. But really, I think we're pretty lucky to have come out of it relatively unscathed.

Rhi 5:06

Yeah. That's just so devastating.

Katie 5:08

It is. It is. But Vanuatu is just an amazing culture. They sort of all just pick each other up in a very almost calm manner. there's been no wild civil unrest. Everyone's just accepted that this is part of life here. We have a lot of earthquakes and some of them are good. most of them are good and don't cause any damage. And then you have ones like this every now and again. So very resilient culture and they pick up where they left off and move on. that's

Rhi 5:35

nice to hear.

Katie 5:37

It is very impressive. We wouldn't cope the same in Australia.

Skye (2) 5:47

so we've all been battling the first week back, right?

Rhi 5:51

He went back on Thursday.

Skye (2) 5:52

All of ours are back. Hen was so pumped for the first day and I was like, yes, this is going to be our year. for those tuning in at home, he loves school, but he's always very reluctant to leave in the morning. it's always a little bit of a struggle, but then once he gets there, he's fine. got him to school on the first day. He was thrilled. so happy. then came the second day and had a total meltdown for the first half an hour. I couldn't get him into the car, which is so unlike him. we finally got there and yeah, it was like that. He's teach, he's new teachers. Really lovely. And she said he calmed down quickly once he got in there, but as a mom, it's the worst feeling ever leaving your child when they're upset like that. Like it just goes against all your instincts. Yeah. Oh my God. It's not a nice way to start the day either. No, it actually put me off everything for the rest of the day. anyway, he ended up saying that he had a great day, but yeah, it was hard. And then just the school routine, like getting back into that and having no time between when you drop off.

Skye 6:59

It's

Skye (2) 7:00

so crazy. So quickly. I know. I've got a few friends whose kids have started for the first time this year and I'm like, I don't think I have any tips for you, except that don't plan much during the day, you get much done. I loved Rhi's tip to me the other day, I was like, Oh my God, the lunchbox, the washing up of the lunchbox every night, it just like, it's like the last job that I have to do. And I don't know why, but it's just the job that almost breaks me. Cause I'm like,

Skye 7:29

Oh, we have to

Skye (2) 7:30

do this again. Rhi, what's your tip on that one? You need more than one lunchbox per child.

Skye 7:44

Do

Skye (2) 7:44

you have more than

Skye (3) 7:45

one?

Katie 7:46

For the girls. I think I have like six, but everything gets so moldy here so quickly. I always have two backups. I have a packet of disinfectant wipes cause I just use their thermal liners. I don't have bento boxes because the kids don't have fridges and we need lots of ice packs to keep things cold. so I have a dedicated pack of, disinfectant wipes and. I just wipe them out every day with that. And it's a quick job for me. It's probably the lazy way, but at least I get it done.

Rhi 8:16

It's a good idea. Really good.

Skye (2) 8:19

Maybe we don't need to reach the bloody bento box. Cause you've got all the

Katie 8:22

little crevices, but I love them. I love the idea of segregating all my food. I would totally use it if the kids had a fridge in their classroom.

Skye (2) 8:28

what about you guys? Have yours started okay?

Katie 8:30

Mine have done pretty well. Flossies at, preschool three days a week and mine start really early in the morning. So by 7. 30 they're at school, which we have got down to a fine art. thankfully, the girls wake up early because it's so sunny here.

Skye (2) 8:47

I feel like I had a more leisurely morning at your house on school mornings than at my own. we don't leave till nine.

Katie 8:54

Well, that's because your kids weren't here when you came to visit. I

Skye (2) 8:56

felt like we were all sitting at the table having toast and a conversation.

Katie 9:03

Quite relaxed here too. So if you're late, I mean, there's quite a few expat families who are not morning people. So they're just like, we'll arrive when we arrive and it'll be fine. Flossie has three out of three mornings said goodbye to me without any tears, which I don't think has ever happened. she's been very sweet walking me to the gate, but I knew she'd love this class with, some older kids and a teacher that she, loves a lot. first week going really well. he's got a new teacher who's this young, enthusiastic, gorgeous teacher, and she's loving life, so she's fantastic. Still clings at me in the mornings, like Han a bit, but when she's there, she's loving every minute. What about

Rhi 9:40

Val? Yeah, he's good. He was so keen to get back. and yeah, he's got two beautiful teachers this year, which I'm actually so does Penelope. I also feel like this year is going to be such a good year. Makes such a difference when they've

Skye 9:57

got beautiful teachers.

Rhi 9:58

Huge difference. I was telling a girlfriend the other day who's also got a kinder, girl starting, and I said, you know what, expect dramatic. Big feelings, because it's like breaking in a horse. They go from this play based, fun, relaxed, gentle, nurturing environment. School is still that, but it's structured and there's routine and lots of other kids the teacher can't give every single kid in the class the same undivided attention like at preschool. And I think I remember Val saying something like my teacher doesn't see me and I'm like, maybe she does in kindergarten because he's such a hugger. Like he used to hug his, you know, preschool educators. But like when there's you and 24 others, it's hard. So yeah, I said. There's a break in phase and it won't go any longer than a term, but yeah, first few weeks of rough and the kinder parents listening. Is

Katie 11:01

it a thing that teachers don't hug as well? I noticed yesterday, taking the girls to school that I saw a couple of kids run up and hug their teachers, but they didn't actually touch them. They just let the kids hug them and then walk away.

Skye (2) 11:14

Which must be really hard for a teacher who's naturally really nurturing

Katie 11:18

Interesting. I never thought about it until I saw

Rhi 11:21

it. And Peggy? Penny P, Baby P. She starts on Monday. I cannot

Skye (3) 11:27

believe that. Is she excited?

Skye (2) 11:28

Little P used to sit in the corner, like, in her bassinet while we had, like, Wine? I don't know. Well, was it wine? I was going to say it wasn't like we were doing long lunches. we were just chatting, I think. we caught up

Rhi 11:42

for tea and coffee and catch ups and play dates. she was always just there in the corner. You guys remember there were multiple times where you'd like, Oh, how's Penny? I remember

Skye 11:52

she was sitting under my, under my little fire. Not when the fire was on. they're like nestled into that little corner. And then we were like, Oh yeah, he's here. She's the biggest chiller. Like she was

Skye (2) 12:09

just

Katie 12:10

the coolest baby I remember her having meltdowns on the ground and just slowly

Rhi 12:13

classic. Well, she's still, she's still occasionally has a traumatic moment. And she's born to be a star at something. she's doing singing, dancing and drama this year in one place. if you're going to be dramatic, at least do it on stage.

Skye (2) 12:37

And it's the like. It's the, momager coming through, like the Chris Kardashian, I can see it in you.

Rhi 12:43

I love

Skye (2) 12:50

it. I love it so we've all had pretty huge weeks or just life. I was thinking about. how my perspective might've changed the last couple of years and how I've kind of learnt a lot more about motherhood, I guess. And I was trying to think of what might be useful for other people to hear. And I think it's only that, just go with it. just don't fight it. Just go with it. Set your boundaries where you need to. But, yeah, I think just kind of pick your battles and roll with it.

Rhi 13:24

You have to ride the wave.

13:38

what's everyone been watching lately? Oh my gosh. I just finished the apple cider vinegar series. Rae, have you seen it? Yes. So intense. What did you guys think? I was blown away. let's do a quick overview of what it's about for people who might not have seen it yet. Okay, it centers around this woman named Belle Gibson. who. Sort of had this checkered past. And it sort of starts with like her teenage life and it follows her into early womanhood and she has a child and she becomes fixated on this, this particular woman who has cancer, who starts to blog about it and this Belle Gibson character starts to focus on that and basically imitates her and has everyone believing that she has cancer, a different type to the other woman, but has brain cancer. she starts a blog. She starts building up a huge following. She builds a business off the back of that, turns it into an app that gets picked up by Apple. They fly her out to Silicon Valley. It's a whole thing. she has people in her life who know that she's lying, but can't do anything about it for different reasons. It's just wild, isn't it? It's just a whole thing. Actually, I think what caught me off guard was how much she affected other people's lives outside of her influencer group. people that actually had cancer We're going through that and taking her advice. we knew that was happening, but seeing it play out in a narrative was something else. So evil seeing it the way it is portrayed in the show It's hard to understand when you are nowhere close to being that type of personality, to think that another human is capable of doing what she has done is just unfathomable. you just can't relate to her thought processes throughout and I guess it begs to question why we believe everything we see on social media and why people fell for what she was saying. why would you go and accuse someone of lying about their cancer? Like it's not the automatic response. So naturally everyone don't believe her because it's just so wild that someone would lie. To all her followers about this and then profit off it. the whole fraudulent storytelling is sick. and people who fell for it feel sick too. Yeah, I think the hardest part to watch was watching. Like all of the people that she affected and, the way that they. we're clearly suffering and wanting to just hang on to anything that might give them a shred of hope she, sort of suggests all of these alternatives to, modern medicine to heal from cancer and that this is what she's been using and eating healthily is kind of the main thing that she says is curing her cancer. She has this huge impact on people's lives and, ends up defrauding a whole heap of people because she has, she does like go fund me stuff and for different charities that she wants to be part of. it was just the lie upon lie upon lie for me that I just felt sick watching it. she must be so sick and I often wonder if people like this can be rehabilitated or if they just live with this, forever. I completely agree. I was doing a bit of reading about it afterwards. it's interesting, a lot of the things that she's being charged for, for only kind of come into place, I think since like 2019, So it's still reasonably recent, but it happened a while ago. I was reading a psychologist's kind of overview of Belle Gibson and what they think she might have, because like, you guys are totally right. This is not a normal way of thinking. This is not a normal, like operating human. And they basically drew comparisons to, well, basically diagnosed her as having narcissism and, potentially another behavioral disorder. But I think it was like watching. How sickening it was in the way that she was so charismatic and she kind of drew people in and laid on all of the charm and then just like totally railroaded them and walked all over them and just had no remorse about it. Zero remorse. I think this type of person, like this narcissistic personality is, the problem is that they have told themselves. these lies which become their truth because they have built it so deeply into their own narrative and aligned themselves with this particular story that they can no longer separate the truth from reality. I really believe that They believe what they're saying and what they're telling people because they've told themselves so many times. they dipped into a bit of her early childhood and how she'd been in some DV situations had her name changed and, some identity crisis there. maybe that manifested as not knowing where she belonged in society as she grew. then she realized she was building community around these big stories. Like when she was in the skateboarding community, telling people she'd had like open heart surgery and she'd have people fighting and going, Oh my God, I hope you're okay. And that's what she needed on, you know, a primal level. She needed people to care about her that maybe weren't caring about her at that time in the way that she needed. So she was getting it from that. Outside source. And she sort of clung to that idea and jumped to the next slide and the next one that will fulfill that need. I think my empathetic brain told her this is how she's justifying it. This is how she's become the person that she is today. And you see that like, well, they hint at the fact that her mother probably has a similar condition, right? it does bring into question, was she just doing what she'd learned and what she'd seen from her mom of how to get attention. She didn't know any other way to operate like that part sad. Yeah. Yeah. And seeing that maybe her, her mother had a community or, relationships built upon the fact that she was unwell herself and seeing that as the only way is building connection between people because it hadn't been modeled to her in a different way. It sounds like she definitely lived a troubled life in the early days moving out of home at 15 and living with a random man down the road. you have to wonder what kind of mother would let her daughter do that and what was like at home. And, you know, it does sound like it was fractured from the early days. The thing that blows me away. at the end and spoiler alert if you haven't watched it or you're only halfway through Well, it's a true story. So you'll probably know what's happened, but the fact that she's barely, well, it appears this way anyway, that there's been barely kind of any consequences for her. Like she hasn't paid these fines back, which is the only punishment that they were able to stick her with were these fines for, fraud and charity fraud, how is that the only thing they can pin on her? I don't know if she's living in the U S like it depicts in the show, but like the fact that she's got away was seemingly got away with it. Well, she's still in Australia, but the last update was in 2023. well immersed herself in the Ethiopian community and became like, I don't know, initiated as an Ethiopian almost spokesperson, part of their community. until recently when they realized who she was and, and her back story, then she kind of. You know, the current affairs going on for them and wanted to be a spokesperson for them was just, just really telling of her just wanting to be a part of, any community that would accept her and see her as a valuable member of society. Or was she picking a vulnerable community? yeah, that's right, Again, prying on another, like the first vulnerable community was the cancer community. Now she's. Potentially preying on this other, really vulnerable community. It's scary, but Kay, I wanted to ask you because we've all been watching the news, but you were subjected to a similar scam, although it's far worse because there's a child involved. do you want to tell us a little bit about what happened with the woman that you donated money to recently? Oh my gosh. Yes. I've been sort of around this influencer world for, maybe six years now. And this particular woman and I had hit it off early. she lost her pregnancy very recently and I had empathized with that, having gone through that myself and, reached out to her and we sort of started this dialogue I like, I won't admit was very deep, but, you know, we were in touch at certain points throughout, the last six years. she's gone on to have three beautiful children and another child, that she inherited from her relationship. And, yeah, since come out that she's. She's done some awful things to her youngest child, but before this, she'd started a GoFundMe page for her youngest who had brain surgery to, see what was going on because she'd been so ill. She'd had friends start these fundraisers and try and get as much money to this family as we could. they were such a personable presence in the influencer community. if you saw this woman, you would just think she's just sort of the earth, great mom, stereotypical Aussie mom, just loves her kids. there were a few red flags when you look back now, but I was more than willing to, donate money to this cause because her children are just beautiful. she comes across as someone you could be friends with. Just really easygoing, nurturing mom. I was like, any way that I can help this family get through this really tough time would be incredible. and I did this without talking to her, so we weren't speaking regularly or anything. Since come out that she's. been poisoning her youngest daughter and all of these things that have, the reason that she's ill is because of her mom. and I wasn't willing to believe it myself. Like I wasn't willing to take it on, you know, the social media, banter that was going on. I was like, I need a police report or see it on the news to say that it's been verified. I just couldn't go there. I was like, I can't accept that. I have been speaking to someone that I never would have thought would do this to her and family. I remember you mentioning it to me, when you first found out and it was just total disbelief Yeah. We were both skeptical, waiting because nothing came out for a while which obviously they were needing to investigate it, but that's right. Yeah. That's right. And plenty, I mean, plenty on Tik TOK and Instagram if you want it to look for it. I just, didn't want to believe it from someone who was hearing it secondhand. I was like, I need. A policeman to be standing in front of a camera saying, this is what's happened. I hadn't been in regular contact with this woman. So when you think about bell Gibson. To think that people were close to her didn't know this and close to this other woman who's just recently been found out like her best friend didn't know her husband didn't know, like, it's just mind blowing, but your whole reality can just change. In one day, I just think that, it's living a double life essentially. And that's what I wanted to ask you, were there similar characteristics to Belle Gibson as this particular woman? they were obviously both charismatic. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's probably the draw card. you could see that even through her influencer campaigns she was doing with branding, synonymous with families and, good values. They would have seen her in good faith and gone. Yep. She aligns with our brand values. Let's bring her on board to promote our products, which she did. And she would have been making a very good income from that alone. it's so wild, even to think about now, I just, it's hard to wrap your head around. Do you think all of this stuff, because it also goes into people using filters and editing and AI and like, do we actually believe anything we see these days and are people more open to questioning everything they see on every level, whether it is just a little filter or a little touch up? You know, he's claiming that they have cancer and that their child is unwell this sort of thing, are we more sick than we were before? I really think the only good thing that can come from this is now that this has happened to someone that I've had direct conversations with. I mean, especially for me personally, I fall subject to that comparison trap of thinking that everybody's further along in life than I am. Like I'm sure anyone on social media feels at some point, but now I feel like I can proceed with caution and go. Sure. They're posting this and it's five seconds of their life, but no one knows what's going on behind the scenes. Like no person on earth. Has all their ducks in a row. And if this, if this person that's just being caught out, this mom was anything to go by, she looked like she had it all. She had a beautiful house, all these, Brands, collaborations that would have been bringing in a beautiful income for her family. Gorgeous, house and children. And you just think she looks like she's hit the jackpot with life, like how much better can it get than that? and then she's like, you said, leading this whole other double life. I think the only good thing to take away is that nobody has their ducks in a row. Nobody, no matter what you see on social media. in every day you see these idealistic couples getting a divorce. there's always something happening behind the scenes that we don't know about. Totally. Yeah. I think that's such a good lesson and probably a way to end on this, because I feel like that message is. Really important. we didn't grow up with social media, our generation. thank God. And we have come into it with open arms, but we were also, still a bit skeptical, I feel like younger generations, puts so much merit Instagram and, it just worries me. as you say, this is a cautionary tale, not to believe everything that you see in those five seconds snippets on Instagram and TikTok and whatever else the kids are using these days. so let's do our recommendations for the week. What's everyone been topping up with? What are we listening to? Watching reading? Katie, do you wanna tell us? I'm actually, I have a non recommendation this week, and I'm gonna get a lot for this. I'm gonna get a lot of hate for it 'cause it's very popular right now. Oh, do not watch adolescence. I mean, go ahead and watch it because everyone's talking about it, but. Alex and I got to the end and both said I won that four hours of my life back. Oh no. Okay. This is really interesting because Ben and I were talking about this the other night because he's obviously a teacher and um, like, and obviously all the toxic masculinity stuff, it's something that he. His school really tries to work on, so he said that all the teachers at his school were talking about it the other day too, and that everyone had kind of watched it over the weekend and that it's, apparently it's terrifying and awful and really hard to watch, but also worth watching. They were sort of saying so quick, tell us like what was, how, like why, did you just feel like it went nowhere or was it just awful to watch? Or like, why do you not recommend this? I dunno. I, and I wonder if it's because I don't have a son. That's my, that's one of my current theories. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, the first episode was confronting and I was like, wow, this is gonna be juicy and I'm interested, I. And then it's, I don't know if, if you know this, but every episode is shot in one take, which you can appreciate the artistry of this. Yeah. Wow. 'cause it's hour long episode with one camera following everybody in the storyline. Wow. Um, which pretty fascinating. Like that would've been so hard. I can appreciate that. Um, but I felt it also made it a bit long-winded. And it could have been something that could have had a lot more substance to it, like if it didn't have these long periods of like driving in the car or sitting in silence somewhere, which I think for some people is really impactful to sit there through the whole process. Yeah. Um, but. Some parts we skipped we're like, come on, come on, get to the good parts. I wonder if that was their strategy. I wonder if they did that cinematography the way they did in order to get the point across. Or if it was like, you know, hoping to achieve all the awards in the beers for cinematography and the, and the plot was just what pushed along and made it even more gripping like it. Or whether they were trying to give you that space to process whatever it was you just watched in the previous scene or something and put yourself in the shoes of, yeah, maybe these, this family that's going through what they're going through. I, and I felt like there was a part at the end where the parents got together and had an honest conversation about their family life that I felt really wouldn't resonate with a lot of people. Or maybe it would just not, not people that we. We are not like these people that they, it's really hard to describe without telling you what it is. Yeah, no, actually, I was just like, I don't think this would happen in, uh, it would definitely wouldn't happen in our household because of this conversation they had about what their family life was like. So I'm like, I'm not worried about it. Why is everyone worried about this? Like, unless you're doing that thing or letting them do that thing all the time, why would you be worried about this outcome? Why would that impact you so deeply? I don't know. Yeah. Right. So it didn't sort of draw the the dots together very well at the end by the sounds of it. Like no, I kind of, it almost made not made sense, but I'm like, well, there's your reason. Like, yeah, right. That's why this has happened. That's why this happened, guys. I could be wrong. Okay. Well, interesting. I love that you've flipped it and that's a non recommendation from you. Um, Ray, do you, um, have a recommendation this week? I've got two and I feel like they're not exciting because firstly, Kardashians, you know, since the beginning we've always been to that, so are up to date. I am. I watched the, um, Indian wedding that they went to, that the Ian court, uh, Kim went to, and, uh. Um, that was hilarious. And I don't know about you who your favorite one is, but I've always had a soft spot for cocoa and Totally. She's still one of my favorites and now that she's 40, she's got this new lease on life and she's getting out and about and I love that for her. Yeah. Um, and I think. Totally. And I think you may also be loving on White Lotus. Well this is interesting 'cause I, I, it's, yeah, I don't know that I am loving it. So actually maybe mine is a non recommendation as well this week. Okay. Because, and I were just saying, so we are watching White Lotus, we are up to date. I feel like, um, I'm not rushing on a Monday night to watch it like I usually would with their other seasons and yeah, I agree. It's not as good as the first for sure. So is it because like the location doesn't really interest me? Is it because the, they haven't got the cast right? Is it because the storyline, what is it about, what is White LTIs about? Well, it's, it's sort of different every season, but it's essentially about rich white people generally who are staying at this hotel chain. So the white Lotus is the hotel chain and they hop around to different country countries like each season. Um, and it's sort of thriller, isn't it? Thriller, or it's like a thriller, but it's kind of like a dark comedy as well because it's a real reflection on wealthy society and um, it's kind of to be a bit of a mirror. I guess, and they're kind of, it's, it's quirky. Like quirky is definitely the way to put it. This particular season has a real focus on an incestuous theme for one, like one of the main families. I know. I know. Oh, this is like gross. It's weird. It's weird. Like I, so one, there's that, which I'm like, that theme just is. Really unappealing, but also I know it's not working for me. Re I I Do you think it could be the general plot from the beginning? Taken. It hasn't really taken my interest from the beginning, I don't think, whereas the other seasons have. Yeah, it's sort of maybe a bit slow to build the character profiles or something, or we're not really, yeah, I don't know. I can't describe it. Like I think it's the, I don't feel invested in any of the characters and usually. Okay. They have like a few different groups of characters and so you kind of usually invested in at least one of them. And their storyline, um, like last year was kind of Jennifer Coolidge's, like siren song and her big, big year. And, and she's just so, like, I just, how can you not love her? Um, so that was great. And then the first season was just like. Yeah, the whole thing was really, really well done. I feel like it's just actually gradually got worse per each season, now that I think about it. Yeah, which is. Once you're invested, you have to see it through Don. Start with the recommendation. I know usually someone dies as well. Okay. That was the other thing we haven't added. So we know usually that someone dies and then it's, each episode's kind of meant to be the buildup to who it was and why. Um, right. Okay. And right now I actually don't care if any of them die. Does that sound really bad? Because we haven't seen the finale yet. Do you think it's safe to say, like we can, we can share our guesses as to how it'll end? Because if you're listening to this, this isn't a spoiler alert. This is purely just a guess on how it'll end. Yeah. So who do you think Miles. Miles thinks that the older brother is going to end everything. So end his life for the whole family as 'cause of what? Or just No, I don't think so. Just him. Um, yeah. And then do you think that the, um, the bald rich guy will end anyone? I, I, I haven't had given too much thought to this, but I'm thinking, I wonder if it'll be the bald rich guy who dies because he decide too, like he's worthy of the death. Um, but yeah. I'm also really intrigued by the guy who pretend is pretending to be the producer or whatever he is with the quirky girlfriend, like. There's something there. The one who's going off to kill the guy who killed his father. Like there's, there's more to his story and I think he'll be central to it, but I'm not sure. Yeah. What yet? I don't know. I really don't know. We'll just have to keep watching, I guess. No, we're not really enjoying it. No. That's exactly right. Don't watch recommendation of the week. Yes, yes. Don't watch. Don't watch just everybody. Just watch the Kardashians. Yeah, no, that's right. I'm behind on that. So maybe don't dedicating my time. I have to start at season one. Yeah. Oh, start from the start. It's the best. Oh my God. Yeah. You won't feel like you've was. that was so much fun, you guys. I am so happy to be back And it just feels like such a bonus to have our Katie here with us. Oh my gosh. This is so fun already. It feels like a natural catch up for the three of us. I'm so excited to be here me too. And boy do we need it. We need the excuse to chop up because it just doesn't happen. It does not. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode, please tune in on Spotify or Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love to have you join us. And we will see you guys out next top up session. Bye everybody.