The one where we question whether to go third baby or not

Katie and Skye discuss the question that's been bugging K for years - to go for a third and final baby or not. We asked you gorgeous Top Uppers to weigh in. And what is K packing her bags for?!! Plus our new shout out segment, Hilary Duff is making music again and Skye has a guilty pleasure book rec.

Pair with your favourite glass of Prosecco. 

Transcript

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Welcome to Top Up. We are two Aussie mums in the thick of parenting work, relationships, and life, and we love exploring different perspectives on deep topics surrounding motherhood and womanhood. This week we are diving into that final baby question and trying to figure out when you know you're done. Plus, we'll tell you all about the event we've been counting down for all year, and a shout out to someone very special to us. Hi, I'm Katie, wife and mom to two girls, midwife by trade, living the expat life in Vanuatu and running my business The Dinner Queen. A weekly dinner plan subscription for busy moms. And I'm Skye, mom of three and stepmom of one part-time, public servant, full-time writer, gardener and mermaid. Okay. Are you ready for a top up? I'm. So ready. Yay. This is exciting. We always love having the excuse to get together and chat. So what have you been up to this week? I have just been packing for this huge event that we have coming up, which we'll talk about very soon. But I've had a crazy week. Literally just spent days working out superannuation for, people that work, around us in Vanuatu. So it's been a little bit boring, but full on. Sounds like a lot of responsibility. It is. And I just wanna say I am all for at the moment booking something with your friends. Have you ever had not had a new experience together in the last little while? Please go and book something, whether it's. A horse ride together or going to a gallery or a winery. Just find something that you can do together to create a new memory that is Yes, go and do that first. I love that. I love that.'cause you were telling me you went on this incredible horse ride with a whole group of you guys the other day, right? I did, yes. It was so fun. I know I'm gonna post a video about that really soon. But yeah, I, yeah, it was great fun. I'm so glad to hear that that's the best. How has your week been? It's been good. It's been, I feel like I always say it's been hectic and busy and all the things. I think that's just normal life for us these days. I had a little, chuckle to myself because one of my 5-year-old twins lent over to my husband the other night and said. Dad. It's hard having kids, isn't it? Oh gosh. I love her. What did dad say? I mean, he handled it really well. He was like. It is hard, Claudes, but you know, we love it and it's, you know, we just, it's just one of those things, you get through it. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's really fun and easy. So I think he spoke for both of us quite well on that part. But just the perceptiveness of these kids agreed. Wow. Like they are next level. Sometimes these one liners they come out with. And they're always watching. Always listening. Always. It's, it's actually crazy. So this week we're unpacking a really important question to you. We are, yes. This is something that you and I have had. I feel like countless discussions. I can't even, oh my gosh. This is just, I'm busting to talk about this, even though I've talked about it a thousand times and I feel like we need to, maybe the goal of the episode is by the end, have you finally make a decision on this. Oh my goodness. Can you imagine? Can you? I can't. I can't imagine. I'll make sure. I'll be texting Alex, making sure that he listens to the episode because his fate will be decided. So, hey, do you wanna share what we're talking about? This episode, we are talking about something that. It consumes my thoughts at the moment. 23 hours out of 24, I'm sure. And that is the subject of a third slash final baby. I know. And it's something that we go backwards and forwards on. I feel like we've been going backwards on forwards on this for you for a couple of years now. I think if we take it right back, I had a conversation with Alex when our youngest, no, actually, if I take it even further back. When I was about 35 weeks pregnant, my husband said to me in the bedroom one night you know, this is our last baby. Right? And that was like throwing a bomb into our bedroom.'cause never in my life did I imagine only being a mother of two. Why do you think he chose to pick that moment to suggest maybe he was scared and he is I can't do this anymore. Your timing. I know, right? And then we had the conversation again maybe six months later after our second daughter was born and he was like, you know, this is it. And. That was a real struggle for me. We were on a walk at the time and we had a bit of a disagreement about it, and I was just like, how can you be the one to decide this? Who gets to make this decision and who, yeah. I just couldn't for the next 12 months, couldn't get my head around how it would be okay for any one person to make that decision. And not both people, but I guess that happens, doesn't it? There are. Plenty of relationships probably every day where someone wants one and the other one doesn't. Yep. And I think the thing is. By the time you are one or two children in, you know, the commitment it takes there is there are no assumptions going on. You know what you're in for. You know that it's gonna be a hard slog, you know that finances are, you know, gonna be an issue. There's gonna be a strain, there's gonna be. Everything, the sleep, the work, it's just your whole life changes and it takes years for it to go into normal. It doesn't it? I mean that's just one part and Totally. Yeah. It's, and now, so fast forward I had another conversation with my husband and when we were. Talking about having taking this posting. And I said, if we get the posting that you want, I would like a third baby. And he said, okay. And then we got the posting and we were on the way back from a wedding weeks later and he read my mind. He's I know exactly what you're thinking. I know what I said. Yeah. Okay. But. Now we are here. The logistics are like, I can't even, that would take a whole episode to explain. Oh, so you to totally backpedal even though he'd like already bargained with you and loser. Yeah. The trickiest thing is I feel like he's really doing it for me because I've wanted this for so long. Whereas he would be happy with two. Which is kind of where we're at the moment. It's more like, how badly do I want that third? That's really hard, isn't it? Because you don't want to ever put any kind of and, you know, this is going to the extreme, but you never want there to be any kind of resentment in a relationship over such a huge life altering decision that, a baby obviously is, or like an overseas posting is like it's, it affects the other person's life unequivocally. There's no way around it, but Absolutely. Yeah. But if you feel it in your bones that it's something that you need. Like how do you weigh that up? I know, and like you said, it's so much more real the more babies you have different for you two in one go. But you know, going through that transition one by one for me, I. Knowing exactly what I'm up against the third one. So I get really sick when I'm pregnant and I'm like, I am useless. I can only grow a baby in those first I half, I wouldn't say you're useless, but you are like, you are literally growing a baby, so you're definitely used. Yeah. But. Which would require a lot of pre-planning for me. You know, making months worth of dinners for the fridge and lunchbox, snacks and things for the days that I am more than likely not gonna be able to. I'll be lucky if I could do the school drop off then it's the sleepless nights, but with two kids that have school and extracurriculars and all of that. And now we're looking at a gap because it's taken this long to get my husband over the line. So now I'm just like scrolling reels at night. People like six year age gaps between the kids. So, so your age gap would be, well, you know, if you were to fall pregnant tomorrow, your age gap with Halle would be what would be. She'd be turning eight very soon And flossy would be five. Yeah. Yeah. So there's also the logistical nightmare of having a baby on a posting. And. Having to go home for appointments, be home well before the birth be home after that for postnatal checkups and all of that. But I would essentially be at home with three kids. I, I would be in Australia with three kids on my own in my young, in my middle child, then in this scenario, her first year of school. So she would more than likely miss. A big chunk of the first year of school. Unless I wanted to start her in a school in Australia and then bring her back. It's just, I was gonna say, you just come back home and live with me. And then she just goes, I might have to, she's gonna be gonna, anyway. That's actually a very simple solution here. That sounds great. I mean, sign me up. Yeah. So these are, I said to my sister this afternoon, my, my head feels like a fish bowl and it's just swimming with all of these thoughts. I just have a hundred goldfish in there and they just swim around all day. None of them resolve. They just keep coming up so hard, isn't it? And I think I got off easy because the decision was kind of made for me when I had my twins, but, I must say lately the kids have been like so beed with any baby we see like anywhere, like there's this one gorgeous mom and her bub who's eight months old who comes to swimming every week and we sit next to them and the girls are just obsessed. Like they are obsessed with little Hamish and so is hen. And then, you know, even we were walking down the street the other day and then went out for dinner the other night and there was a baby there and they're just like. So seeing them be so interested makes me be like, oh my God, should I have another one? Because this, yeah, please. Lovely. At the same time. But is that something that is kind of appealing to you? I know that the gap between the kids is, can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing, but like Halley's a little mama anyway. She is maybe the gap is actually a positive in this instance. Look, it definitely could be. And she asks me every day if we are having another baby. I don't know if I told you this, but she asked about the whole I. The whole scenario, how it all comes about. And she asked in a very pointed way and I just sat down and I told her and she said, so can I watch? So I think for her it seems like a very transactional process where we just stand up and exchange these things between each other and then the baby starts crying. How did you describe it? I love this. I. No, actually, that would be very disturbing. It was pretty funny. It's pretty funny. Oh, but I love that, like she asks every day. Yeah. She's so keen, isn't it? She's so wants to be, and you see all these big girls on like on Instagram, and they've got their little sisters in their carriers or their little brothers, and they're just, yeah, like you said, these little mamas. So I mean. I'm like, yes, let's do it. When I watch that and then I'm like, oh wait, reality, all the other bits in between, there are what's catching me at the moment. Okay. So is that the main hurdle for you? Other than the fact that okay, hang on, let's go back a step. If Alex right now was like. Let's do it. I really want this third baby. Like I think we just have to go ahead and do it. If he was like really overly enthusiastic into it, would that just make everything easier for you or is it that you also have your own hesitations? No, I think that's, that would definitely be the winning factor. There is the side that's like. You know, I'm over the hump of nappies. I'm about to have two in school. I'm going to the gym again. You know, I've, I'm about to have this time and I'm like, well, do we wanna reset the clock? As my husband says yes. I mean. Yes, I do. I don't have a problem with that. But then also watching everyone move forward with their lives and, you know, start progressing in their careers again. And I can see that path as well. I just, for me lately, I've just been thinking, if I think about it this much, how could I not? I agree. And I think that was the conversation you and I had the other day, like over the phone. It was just for me, if you are thinking about something that much and it's not something that's going away and'cause it hasn't you know, it's just I feel like you're such the most incredible mama and you are such a maternal, nurturing person anyway, I just think this this is part of your calling and if you. If you just can't stop thinking about it, I just wonder if you didn't do it, does that mean you're always gonna be thinking about it for the rest of your life? Probably. Definitely. Another thing that might have tripped me up is I have met a couple of families lately, women of three babies and have asked them both in different scenarios. You know, how is having three,'cause I'm obviously just so interested in it and. I've spoken to a lot of women about this, but these two women stand out to me because they both said could have stopped at two. Three was a bit of overkill. Like obviously we love them, but it's a lot. Like two would've been like the whole vibe of the conversation seems to be like. Three was a bit ridiculous. Like two would've been fine. But now we are here and we love it and we're coping and we just have to deal with it. No. You're supposed to say, of course, like three. Was the dream, like this is all I'll never. No regrets. I'm like, no, that was not the way these two conversations went out of probably a hundred conversations, let's be honest. But these two, I'm like no.'cause everyone says you never regret the kids. You have these two women are like, that's really interesting For me, I feel and again, I know mine was a package deal, but I just know that when the girls came along, I felt this, and I have said this to you before, I felt this real sense of peace and real calm that like everyone who was meant to be in our family was there in the one. Yeah. Yeah. And I, yeah, and I definitely, I don't have that feeling. I like, I'm constantly thinking about who this third person is and is it a boy? Is it a girl? I. But then I hear there's people that just go their whole lives having, they've had five babies and they still think that. So I'm like, no, I don't think I'm one of those. I really don't. I really don't. I think if I had three, I would feel like you are like you feel. I would just be like, this is it. This is the middle miss family. Here we are. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I don't know. It would resolve something for me, something that feels unfinished. Maybe there's the answer they go, Alex, did you hear that? So this week we actually reached out to you guys on our Instagram page, top up podcast au, and thank you so much for getting back to us. It's been really helpful to pick through all the different opinions and how everyone's feeling. It was really interesting seeing such different ends of the spectrum. So we've decided to share some of those different opinions, which may or may not help Katie make her big decision. No. So our first beautiful mom reached out and actually posed a question, do you really want an entire extra family member or are you just thinking about all the cute parts of having another baby? Well, it's a great, I mean, that's a very valid question. It's a very valid question. Um, and she goes on to say that that really helped her. Understand that she just wanted to hold another baby or even just the two that she already had, so they made the decision not to have a third. Yeah. Right. Wow. I can I just say I get that because I, I. Definitely don't want another, but I still very much now get clunky around babies, like fresh babies again. And there's like, if there is a baby in the room, guaranteed I will be there by your side taking that baby straight out of your arms. Uh, hoping you are like, well, no, I will just do it probably before you've even asked. Uh, mom and I actually even. Took a friend's baby the other day'cause she needed a break quickly to go and pick up her other kids. We literally took the baby while she was asleep in the pram, took her for a walk. Aw. While I, my friend, like ran and grabbed her other kids and it was the best thing ever. Mom and I were in like heaven again pushing a baby in a pram. Sweet. I was like, oh my God, I miss this so I can I get that? Yeah. Yeah. I do too. And I honestly couldn't. Answer that honestly right now. Yeah. Right. Okay. That's really interesting. Alright, who have you got? So this mom I think makes a really interesting point and I think you'll resonate with this'cause we've all been in the thick of it before. So she basically said that. It was a lot harder than she expected that bringing a third in really caused a lot of chaos for the family. Found it really, really difficult and challenging. And this was someone who'd been kind of on the fence and going backwards and forwards about the decision for quite a number of years as well. So she was, because she was worried that it was gonna turn to chaos and it did. Really hard pregnancy, you know, and having to juggle all the kids you've got already, all those things. Oh gosh, so daunting. Um, and as we know, you have hard pregnancies, but she says, but then you just get used to it. So it's hard in the beginning, but like anything, you get used to it and. I'd say Go for it. She's reading between the lines, everyone. So is that, is that helpful? So expect it to be shit, but it will get better. There is a silver lining, but that's so true. Right? I mean I had a really hard newborn phase and then I had a really great newborn phase with the twins with two, which is crazy. Which I know. I know. Whereas I feel like your both yours as newborns were fantastic. No, you're remembering this all wrong. Florence didn't sleep for the first, like two and a half years of her life. My flossy bear. Yeah, that's true. Anyway. Yeah. Okay. It's a small price to pay for her. Really? Yeah, definitely. She's like the angel child now. Whatcha talking about? Okay. Who else have you got? Okay, so I have this other beautiful mom who has said that. Their third was just the biggest blessing to their family and he has just contributed so much and he feels like an OG of their family. Like he should have been like one of the first or second. And the amount of confidence boost he has given to his other siblings has just been incredible for them to witness. Um, and they couldn't imagine their life without him, and they That's so sweet. They were on the fence, so. So they're saying, go for it. They're saying, go for it. So what I'm hearing is lower your expectations. In the beginning, expect it to be hard, but you won't regret it unless you can be honest with yourself and realize that you actually just want to go through the baby phase one more time. Yeah, it's not actually for. Another family member. So I guess maybe you just have to think about what your life, what you want your life to look like with children instead of a new baby. Because that phase is so short. So short, and I feel like it's, we are almost pre-programmed to miss that, that newborn phase so that we can continue to procreate. Right? Yeah. And probably even more so now with social media, like we've, I feel like our. Generation has created this whole nostalgia for that phase as well. Like you're constantly seeing things on social media about, I never want this phase to end and I love this and I want to come back and, but do you think that's only resonating with us now because we're like five years down the track of our last babies and so now we are just remembering like anything, we're remembering it with rose colored glasses. If God Yes. If you had asked us, you know, three years ago when we were still in the thick of things. I mean, you always want more babies, so maybe you would say yes, but I wouldn't have, Yeah. I think now we've, like, we've reached this dangerous phase of, we have, it's been long enough since we've had one, and so we are kind of, we are only remembering it with rose colored glass. I'm gonna finish with this quote that I read the other day. It was hilarious. I was so excited to read it to Alex. And it said having a third baby. Is like having that last shot at the bar. You know you shouldn't, but you do it anyway. That is amazing. Isn't that great? Oh my God. So do we take the last shot at the bar? I mean, never regretted to tequila A shot is all I can say. I've always had a really good time. I love that. And I think that's such a good one to end on. It's so appropriate, and Kay, will you please keep us updated on what you end up deciding? Watch this space. So while I go and contemplate all of that, I had like to introduce a new segment this week called The Top Up Community. Shout out, and we couldn't think of a more deserving person to start with. Our dear friend Kaylee and her husband Tom, have just received the Community for Children Award for their incredible work in foster care and advocacy. Kaylee is not only a devoted foster mom, a mom to her two beautiful. And a talented family and birth photographer. She's also an author. Her first book, she smiled just a little is out now, and her next one, part of her picture arrives in December. Yeah. And they're so, it's like her drawings are so beautiful in this book. We've, I've read the first one to the kids and they just love it. It's so gorgeous. We are so proud of our way too Humble, Kaylee. And. So happy to see her and her family being recognized for all that they do. It's not something she would've wanted.'cause honestly, she's like, she's just like a humble angel, isn't she? Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Not sorry Kate. But her books are gorgeous. They help families and children understand the foster care experience in such a gentle and beautiful way. We can pop the links in the show notes so you can check them out because they are just gorgeous and could make a really nice Christmas gift. Absolutely. So just before we wrap up, Kay mentioned she was packing for something exciting coming up. Do you wanna give us a little hint? Kay, what it is? I am so ready for this. Are you ready? I'm ready. So excited. I chuckled to myself when you mentioned that this was something we should do. I wasn't sure if you were joking. Oh my God. I can just listen to that. Every time I hear that song now, it just makes me so pumped. It's such a bad for the weekender though, isn't it? Like you can't help dancing, you can't help but dance. The whole concert's gonna be like that. I just know it. I'm so excited. It harks back to our like two thousands childhood slash preteen days, doesn't it? We must have been having so much fun in those years. Oh my God. We were so spoiled for choice with music, I feel like then don't you think there was so many huge names? Well, there was. We, I mean, we've heard of more recently that are coming out. Yeah. So I feel like we're gonna do like a world tour of nostalgic albums. Totally. Apparently Hillary Duff's bringing one out, so I can't wait to unpack that one with you when it does. So excited. So yes, that we are gonna be busy getting ready for Ricky. We are. And now one more question. Do you have a recommendation. Yes. Okay, so I know I've talked to you about this before and I actually gifted you the first one, but I've just finished the second book in Jessa, Hastings Magnolia Park series. So the first one is called Magnolia Parks. The second one is, what's it called? Something about Daisy Hates. Anyway, it's the prettiest cover. It's basically about. A character in the first person's world from the first book, but it explores a whole different character. All right. And it's just, it's one of my guilty pleasures because it's a really light read. I absolutely fly through them and if I've had like a big day at work, I look forward to jumping into bed and reading these,'cause it's like watching Gossip Girl or Maiden Chelsea, or, yeah, it's just, it's like watching my favorite. Guilty pleasure, but reading it. Oh, that's so fun. I can't wait to get into that book. Alright, thank you so much everybody for listening. Please leave us a review or a star, hopefully five stars if you're feeling generous. Reach out to us on Instagram. We'd absolutely love to hear from you, and we look forward to topping up again soon. Yay. Great.