Managing Leadership Anxiety: Navigating Complexity and Ambiguity

✨ Managing Leadership Anxiety: Navigating Complexity with Daniel Harkavy ✨

🙏 Special thanks to our sponsors Lifeguides & GoHappyHub. Your support fuels our mission to destigmatize anxiety in work and life. 🙏 Watch The Episode & Don’t Forget to Like, Comment, Subscribe, & Share 💙

Highlights: 📍
🧘‍♂️ Inner Balance: personal rituals ground leaders in a VUCA world, underscoring the power of a mindful morning routine.
🗺️ Life Mapping: insights on crafting a life plan that harmonizes professional ambition with personal fulfillment.
🌀 VUCA Leadership: Learn how leaders can navigate volatility with grace, ensuring their teams thrive amidst uncertainty.

Join us for a profound conversation with Daniel Harkavy, CEO and executive coach from Building Champions. As we explore the art of leading in tumultuous times, Daniel offers a treasure trove of strategies for bolstering mental resilience and fostering a holistic approach to success. His advocacy for life planning as a 'GPS for life' is a call to action for all leaders to evaluate and enrich their journey across every spectrum of life.

➡️ If you're a leader seeking harmony in the chaos or anyone yearning to elevate life's quality, this episode is your guiding star. Let's strive together for mental well-being and impactful leadership.
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Transcript

Welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author and dear friend, Adrian Gostick. We hope that the time you'll spend with us is going to help remove the stigma of anxiety and mental health in the workplace and your personal life. We invite experts from the world of work and life to give us ideas and most importantly, tools to deal with anxiety in our world. And part of our journey is sponsored by our wonderful sponsor Lifeguides. You know, it's a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom, and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes, experiencing the same challenge or life experience that you have. We all need a life guide. Well, for those of you that are listening, we've got a special offer. If you go to lifeguides.com forward slash, schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 to the text box, you get two free months of free service. We love our friends at Life Guides, don't we, Adrian? We sure do. And we also want to send a big thanks to our new sponsor GoHappyHub, the most inclusive and timely way to communicate and engage directly with your frontline employees and candidates with 95% plus open rates. So with GoHappyHub you can send text messages directly from corporate and enable permissions for your frontline leaders to communicate with their team. They can send notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities, LTOs, new hire introductions, learning content, celebrations, and more. It's easily the right, get the right message to the right people with simple segmentation by location, job type, language, et cetera. And you get feedback from the field in a structured, digestible, and actionable way. That's Go Happy Hub and leaders and founded Building Champions, where he serves as CEO and executive coach. Over the past two decades, he and his team, a team of coaches, have worked with thousands of clients and organizations, implementing the plan in his book, Living Forward. We had him on our LinkedIn Live show. We've gotten to know him a little better. He's a better person than he is, even a coach, and we're delighted to have Daniel Harkavy on our podcast today. Welcome, Daniel. Thank you, Chester, for your kind words, and it's great to be with both of you. Well, Daniel, it's exciting to have you on the show. As Chester hinted at, you do a lot of amazing work with youth and others, and we'll get into that as we go forward. Really, we introduced you, though, as an executive coach to leaders, and right now you you know you write in your blog on your website about this VUCA world we're in this volatile uncertain complex ambiguous world and so just give us an idea about the overall well-being of leaders that you're coaching and how most importantly you're helping them work through the anxiety they're facing right now. Well it's a huge topic and I can't believe as we're recording this, you know, we're finishing the summer off of 2021. And here we are, we're still in this, I would say from pandemic to endemic world. And leaders are trying to figure it out. Every leader is trying to figure out how to navigate their way forward. And depending upon what type of an industry Aaron leaders are experiencing immense headwinds just the difficulties that This environment is bringing upon them and then you have other leaders that have just immense tailwinds and they're moving so fast their organizations have so much demand and lift and and they're fighting challenges as well because They're struggling with capacity. They're struggling with supply chain. They're struggling with delivering quality. And in both of those realities, and I am seeing, you know, on the left and on the right, with regards to headwinds and tailwinds, I'm seeing that both of those have been immensely challenging for leaders and their teams, as we've had to all figure out how to operate in really this COVID reality. So, you know, bringing people back to work, keeping your team safe, changing policy on a local or, you know, global level, so many different factors. It's taking its toll on leaders. So it's interesting guys, this Friday, I will have between 10 and 12 CEOs with me of some pretty well known firms, and I host the CEO roundtable. And in preparation, I asked them questions, I want to know where they're at, where's their headspace? And, and what are they concerned about? And what do they want us to all talk about together in this safe environment? And as I looked the survey responses, what I saw a ton of is fatigue, lessened emotional ties, culture, managing my own psychology, difficulty in connection of team. You're just seeing that. So it's an interesting time to be a leader and I think there are some definite strategies that leaders can take. And I think some of those strategies are strategies that everybody can take in order to just feel better and to then engage better so that you get better results in relationships at home and at work. So we still have the ability to create a positive tomorrow. Excellent. Yeah, you know in your book Living Forward, I mean obviously it's for the whole life, it's not just your work life, it's your personal life. And you know when we were talking on a different show, you talked about some breathing exercises. I mean some simple things to kind of calm yourself down. And I know you have a lot of personal rituals that you go through to make sure that you're centered and your headspace is healthy. Would you share a couple of those with us, particularly the breathing exercise? Yeah, yeah, I think that one piqued an interest for both of us. There's just so much science around how we breathe and its connectedness to our overall health, our emotional health, our cardiac health, you know, our whole limbic system health, how we feel to others. So breathing is a really big deal. And you look at how our bodies were designed and how at the very core of every organ we need oxygen. We need that oxygen to enrich our blood and to cause our hearts to work well. It causes our brain to work well. So you can have doctors and psychologists on here, are gonna be a lot better equipped to answer the science side of the question than good old Daniel Harkabee. But what I can tell you is, as one who has studied it and one who has practiced it, it helps a ton. And what it does is, if we can understand that when we're stressed, we move into a shallow breathing state. And when we move into a shallow breathing state for a prolonged period of time, it's changing the chemistry of our body. Our chemicals are moving to an out-of-balance place and for a prolonged period of time that takes its toll on us, which is why meditation is so big, prayer is so big, that's why guys like Wim Hof are so popular, you know, ice baths and really controlling your breathing. That's why yoga has been so effective for fighting hypertension for years. This is why, you know, depending upon your faith, this is why we're told to meditate on the scriptures and meditate has a whole practice with it. So, I am mindful of how I'm breathing in meetings, in conflict situations. Yeah, I'm very aware of it and and I have some pretty cool practices. Yeah, you just share one with us. You know, it is interesting. Through the pandemic I've become a huge fan of meditation and of course meditation is all about focusing on your breath and breathing. So do you have one sort of go-to little ritual that you could share with us? Maybe walk us through it real quick. Yeah, so I'm a man of faith and my morning routine is what centers me. So I know as goes my morning, so goes my day, what I allow into my mind versus what I intentionally put into my mind. So, for me, I have to set boundaries for what I won't allow into my mind. I have a routine. It's been consistent for probably a couple decades now, now where I like to move from, and I won't go into too much detail, but move from the bedroom. I like to get into the kitchen. I do some health things first thing in the morning with, this is where people are gonna say, okay, Harkavy's freaky, but let's go. Coconut oil in the mouth, which is good for the gums and the teeth, which is good for cleansing and then good for the heart because there's a connection between dentistry and your heart. And then I like to make a turmeric drink with the apple cider vinegar and that's anti-inflammatory as we age and we continue to pound on our bodies depending upon your appetite for adventure. Anything anti-inflammatory is good. And then I move over into a whole series of exercises where I go face down and I am in child's pose and and then I have a morning prayer and in my morning prayer there's three parts to it. Part number one is gratitude. I believe that all of us were created by a creator who saw us, who knows us, who loves us, who wants to use us, who's with us and I love living that way and he invites me into a relationship, so I get to start off by acknowledging who he is and who I'm not. And when I get into trouble is when I start to think I'm him. So I always in the morning, I'm face down, and I'm just acknowledging that he's got this whole thing under control and I don't have to. It's a good place to be. The second part that I move into is a specific prayer where I just ask for help. I want Him to help me to be who I want to be so that I can do what I want to do or that He wants me to do. Help me to see people like He sees them, love people like He loves them, serve them in ways that bring Him fame and glory. And I continue on. Help me to strive to please an audience of one. Flip switches it up on the hearts of everybody I meet. And then I pray for people. And I am surrounded by people who need prayer regardless of their faith. I just want to, if I can intercede, and you know, faith is having a confidence in things not seen and yet hoped for, and I hope and believe that if I pray for people, it can affect a better outcome. So I'm praying for everybody that I can be praying for. Well, if that's, oh sorry, go ahead, Daniel. Yeah, go ahead. Well, I was just saying, that's terrific. And by the way, next time, pray for us, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we need it. That's great. We do, too. And I do, man, I'll tell you. So the meditation part kicks in a little later. And there's a Hebrew scripture, Psalm 23. And I like to pray and meditate, slowing my breathing down and focusing through the entire Psalm, the 23rd Psalm. And I do that slowly and I center on that. Recently I've been introduced to an app called Lectio and there's about an eight minute little devotion in Lectio that slows your breathing down and gets you to meditate and I found that to be really beautiful. So I'll throw some of that in. You know, in the winter months I'll sit in the sauna and I'll do some deep breathing and meditation and prayer out there. Sometimes I'm in the hot tub early in the morning. I mix it up a bit, but that's 23rd Psalm as a constant for me. Slowing it down. That's great. It's beautiful. That's so great. And I hadn't thought about using the 23rd Psalm in that way. That's terrific. I'm going to try that. It's wonderful. So let's come, this is so great, we haven't done this in a while, it's somebody's sort of rituals that you use. So I think this has been really powerful. So I want you to think now from maybe from a leader's perspective, as you coach, you've talked about how you sort of fight that limbic system overload from your perspective. What do leaders do to help kind of fight this from a team perspective of this limbic system, overload, anxiety, fear in the workplace? Well, it's all connected. I myself am a CEO, I've got 35, maybe 38 teammates, and all day long we're working with about 500 leaders. And we're doing this day in and day out. And these leaders, as you all listen to me, I'm incredibly transparent, I share faith, but the organization works with leaders of all sorts of different beliefs, so I don't want the audience to be thinking, all right, you only work with your type of people. No, this is just me, and this has been my journey, and it helps me to love people better, and it helps me to think better, and that helps me to show up better. So as I'm thinking about your question, Adrienne, and what are best practices for leaders to help themselves to feel good and then think at their best and then perform at their best? Well, it all starts with self-leadership. And the reason that I share my morning routine is because too many leaders are bypassing the morning routine and they're moving right into reactive mode. So, you know, for 25 years, I've been walking alongside leaders and the lion's share of them that are struggling, their morning routine is one that can immediately have a positive effect on their overall efficacy if they would just begin making it habit. So, if you can begin putting good things into your mind in the morning, it changes how you believe. What you think about and allow in impacts your belief, which then impacts your feelings. How you feel alone then impacts how you feel to the team. I love quoting my good friend Dr. Henry Cloud, who says, in Boundaries for Leaders, I think that was where he said it, but I have no idea. But Henry always says, you know, a leader's number one job is to think well and then to help the people around them to think well. And I believe that, absolutely believe that. So how we lead ourselves, our own morning routine, what we're thinking about our people, what we're believing about our people, what we're thinking about us in our role and believing about us in our role, and then what we're thinking and believing about our opportunities and the organization and the difference we can make and how we can improve how we serve those that we serve or improve the quality of our products or improve whatever it is that has to do with our type of business. Our thinking and belief and believing that there can be a better tomorrow is absolutely critical and it's more critical today than it was two years ago because two years ago everybody truly believed if you were to ask them, hey can we have a better tomorrow? Two years ago people were like, oh of course we can. I mean look at the last decade. Every year's been getting better for most people. You've watched businesses grow, you've watched the stock market grow, you've watched earnings grow, you've watched all sorts of new businesses enter the scene and crush it. Well the last couple years, now you know March of 2020, people are less certain, which is where VUCA enters. And we leaders need to be mindful of the fact that we can still create an opportunity and have a better tomorrow, but it starts on the inside. Self-leadership always precedes team effectiveness, and team effectiveness always precedes organizational impact. So I'm working on self-leadership with folks in the C-suite, and I'm working on self-leadership with level five leaders in multi, you know, global organizations, multi, you know, continent organizations. So it's, it all starts with you and your own practices. You know, it's so interesting, you talk about a lot of structure, you know, and being really disciplined in that structure, you know, the morning routine, what you put into your head and so on. So how can our lives and how can we position ourselves better do when by incorporating more structure? The morning routine, I love that concept. How do you then transfer that to more structure within the organization, within your personal life for more happiness and more freedom? Well, I have one approach in that book that I co-authored with my longtime client and friend Michael Hyatt. That book's Living Forward, and that's a life planning book. That's one component of what we bring to clients. I've written a few books on different models, and our coaches are working through all sorts of different models, but the life plan structure is a great starting place. And that's the one that we're actually using to launch our new community benefit, Not For Prof, to help America's young adults to have some belief and hope in tomorrow. That's all about life planning. So when you look at the last year and a half, our routines and structures have been really disturbed, and that disrupts how we feel. You know, we're no longer certain of our routines. We had these subconscious routines that when we were able to execute on those, whether we stopped at Starbucks every day at 7.10 on the way to work, we saw Janet, Janet gave us the same drink, we didn't even need to order it, she knew. We had routines, and those routines got blown to pieces. Well, by building in structure, what you can do is you can begin to have a roadmap to win. You create a GPS that enables you to move from where you are to where you want to be. And in living forward, that's what we talk about. Building a life plan that enables you to identify who you want to be in every area of your life that's important. And then specific steps that will enable you to move forward so that you are accumulating net worth in all areas of your life instead of the areas of life that usually have the most pull, which is your career, maybe your finances. If you speak to folks that are maybe closer to our age, Chester, you and I having the same haircuts, you've seen it and maybe you've been there before where you're dealing with men and women who have been just career crushers. They've been awesome at work but they get into their 40s, 50s, and 60s, and then they have a lot of regret. Because they neglected other areas of their life that are now bankrupt, and they can't go back and fix those. So if you would just look at accumulating net worth in all areas of your life, and then build a routine and a structure, and make those non-negotiable, you make those disciplines that you're going to do everything you can to live out 70, 80, 90% of the time. Your health, your marriage, your friendships, your family, your finances, maybe your philanthropic work, maybe some hobbies, your career. We're multidimensional beings. And I love that idea of accumulating net worth in all areas of our lives. That is so important. And you're right, we work with, you know, executives that usually are, you know, like you say, 40 plus, and they're realizing at this point, okay, I want a more well-rounded life, this work-life balance that people have talked about. Hey, tell us a little bit more about how we can find you, Daniel. If somebody's listening and they go, oh, I want more of that, where would they go? Yeah, so our corporate website is buildingchampions.com and that's where you'll find our organization. Setpath.com will go live within the next few weeks and you'll find us there. And I'm on social media so you can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, Daniel Harkavy, H-A-R-K-A-V as in Victor Y. One of the things we're hearing a lot about that is causing stress and anxiety and I'd really be interested in your opinion as a leader and coach. Is this idea of remote work, hybrid work? You probably have people you've been managing for quite some time that maybe have been more hybrid but a lot of us are just trying to figure this out and it's causing stress and anxiety. How are you helping your leaders work through these issues and really build that team feel like your CEOs were looking for in the roundtable? Yeah, so I don't think there's anything that replaces breaking bread. I think we were designed to be in community and I just got back from my first international trip. I was in Iceland three weeks ago with an executive team. It was the first international team retreat that I did since March of 2020 when I got flown out of Germany the night the borders were closing. And there's just something so critical for us to come together. And leaders have a new challenge, and that is because there's a certain percentage of our workforce that really likes working at home. And for the businesses that were able to afford their teammates that luxury and continue to keep the doors open, getting people to come back is going to be a challenge and you're seeing a real shortage of talent right now. Adrian and Chester, you guys know it. I mean, we could three, I don't have this figured out. Like all three of us could be chiming in on this topic and maybe your listeners would appreciate that. What I am saying is that leaders need to be focused on vision. We need to be engaging people, whether they're in several states, whether they're chiming in on Zoom from their Sprinter van because they happen to get one and that's the way they're living now, or whether they're back in the office. We need to be reminding our people of where we're headed and the work that we need to be doing and why it matters. And by the way, it's impossible to get a sprinter van right now. Just let me know. Yeah, somebody's trying to find one, huh? Yeah. I will tell you the truth, Adrian. I was looking at them last night. And their maker, Daimler, is probably my largest client. So you let me know. We're going to hook us up. All right. Yeah, they're beautiful. Yeah, so I think what we're going to have to do as leaders is we're really going to need to look at how do we have just enough connection for our people to thrive. You still need to be together to collaborate. You still need to be together to idea share. And I think that there is just something about being together that is so critical for culture. Oh, I said culture. Now I'll shut up and I'll let you guys chime in because you know. I mean this is good. Yeah, yeah. But come on, if we could do this live and have this conversation and all right, let's go grab a cup of coffee, there would be 19 opportunities that we would come up with if we did that, but today we're not going to because this thing's gonna end and then we're gonna jump into another Zoom type meeting. So we've got to figure out how to be coming back together enough. And still let's learn, maybe we don't need as much brick and mortar and we don't need to be forcing people 40 hours every single day to drive through rush hour and go to work. We have to figure that out. For the businesses that have the luxury of doing it. Hospitals, they don't have that luxury. You know, manufacturing plants, they don't have that luxury. Retail, uh-uh. Hospitality, uh-uh. You know, it is so interesting you talk about coming back to work. And I think the remote work, we've kind of forgotten being together. And as I'm seeing people start to come together, you see this kind of, oh yeah, this was great. I remember this. Yeah. And so it'll be interesting as people say, gosh, they want me in the workplace, you know, three days a week. That's crazy. I think, you know, it's going to be interesting as people start to come back to work that all of a sudden they'll say, oh yeah, there was, it was a kind of a magic and just being able to grab a coffee and, you know, explore around a table, different ideas. Wonderful insights, Daniel. Hey, listen, my next question was gonna be all about, you know, the life plan and all that, and you've answered that question so brilliantly. As we start to wrap up, is there anything that has been going through your brain that you'd like to share with us in your work, maybe with young people or CEOs that maybe we've missed before we call it a day? Well, I would say, you know, this whole topic of life planning, it's where you were going to go and yes, I did touch on it. There's a percentage of folks that are listening to us right now that didn't even really hear it. Maybe they heard it and they thought, oh, it's a goal setting, it's another goal setting guy, it's a goal setting framework. It's actually not. And I would want everybody listening, whether you are, you know, somebody who your, your parents were just these switched on folks that want you to learn everything. So you're the 18 year old or the 20 year old listening. And if you are awesome, good on you. Or, you know, you're the 30, 40, 50, 60 year old professional that has been positively impacted by Adrian and Chester's work. This bit about life planning, it's a big deal. And if you don't have a framework that helps you to make decisions, that helps you to develop conviction, clarity around your convictions and what you'll say no to so that you can say yes to great things, you have to say no to good things so that you can say yes to great things. If you don't have a framework for helping you, you have to understand that we humans are emotional beings. And if the general state of humanity today is as is the media is portraying it, how we humans are doing together, it's not so pretty. We are still on this divided side of you are and I'm not and I'm right and you're wrong. And the more that that continues, the worse off we're going to be. And we can't be looking to other people, saying you guys all need to fix it. That never works. What we need to do is we need to be looking at ourselves and we need to be saying, okay, where am I? How am I feeling? And what can I do to be more positive and make a bigger difference in the lives of those around me. And when you're tired, or when you have fear, or when you have uncertainty, it kicks in some emotion, or I'm sorry, some chemicals that bring about emotions that hurt our ability to relate and to connect and to have empathy for one another. And I will tell you that that, over the long haul, it does nobody good. It's not going to bode well for you. So having a framework that really helps you to identify who you want to be as a partner, who you want to be as the steward of your body, who you want to be in your neighborhood, who you want to be as a mother, a father, a grandfather, a grandmother, who do you want to be? The time's clicking. You know, in the Hebrew scriptures, it says in Psalm 90, 12, so teach us to number our days so that we may gain a heart of wisdom. Don't think that this is just gonna, you know, we have tomorrow and we have next week and then we can get around to fixing it. No, it's up to us. It's up to us today. So I would encourage everybody to have some sort of a framework that helps you to remember what's most important to you and then how you can positively move forward to be the person that you can be. And I look at living forward and life planning as a GPS for your life. And it's dynamic, you adjust it, things change. It's not this magic genie in a jar, but it does help you to be reminded of it. It's a framework that helps your executive functions to be reminded of what matters most so that you can then make the decisions that will enable you to accumulate that net worth in the areas of your life that matter most. My hope would be more people would go, wait, wait, what did he just say? Build a life plan? Yeah, take a day and do it. And I've seen tens of thousands and now hundreds of thousands of people improve how they move through life in all areas because they've used the framework. That book is now in 23 languages. And I would say if you're going to pick up on one thing and you haven't done it, that would be the one thing, Chester. Excellent. And that is so great. And again, the book is Living Forward. It is worth picking up, like you said, just for the life plan. If you haven't done that, take a few minutes to go through that process. It is so powerful. Daniel, I mean, Chester and I, we've been business partners for 20 years. We've been on this earth 120 years between us. 100 for Chester, 20 for me, but you know, I mean, well, let's not niggle with the details. But the point is that we still do this. We still get opportunities thrown in our way. We go, okay, let's do it. And we realize it's not what we should be doing. It's not part of our life plan. And so that's why the work you're doing is so valuable. So thank you, Daniel, for coming on. I think that last minute or two that you've just shared with us has made my day and has really given me something to think towards. So thank you again for coming on. This has been really powerful. My pleasure. It's great to be with you guys. You guys, when I spoke with you, Chester, the last few conversations and now Adrian having you here as well. I know it's that one plus one plus one equals nine. I know how you guys believe. I know how you think. I know you guys are inspired and motivated to make a positive difference, a lasting difference in the lives of everybody you can. And I just say thank you. Thanks for allowing me to be your guest. And if I can ever help instead of doing the addition thing with you, but instead doing the multiplication thing, you let me know. Absolutely. Hey, listen, always inspiring to be with you, Daniel, always. We didn't even touch on the great work that you're doing with kids that come and live in your home and the difference you make in their lives. That's a whole other discussion. I just want to let you know that we so appreciate just the spirit and the calm that you bring and the good that you're doing. You've got our numbers. Call anytime if we can be of service. We'd love to be on the Harkivi team. Right on. Well, I'd love to have you on the team. So I will call you. I'm going to need help as we launch Set Path, believe me. You know what? Please call me. I'd be delighted. Just in closing, Daniel has kids and people that come live with him that need help. Growing up as a kid, my mom did that. Just a quick aside, I remember coming to the breakfast table after a good night's sleep and seeing strange people at the table. I would say, I know that I live here and it's clear that you now live here, so why don't you tell me who you are and why you're here? That was not just on one occasion. Love the work you're doing and the difference you're making. Again, thanks so much for being our guest. Thanks, gentlemen. Great being with you. Well, just another great guest. You never know when we start talking with a guest, where they'll take us. Because at the beginning, I really liked that he was giving us his routine. At first, I was wondering, okay, is this really fit? But then it does, because this is what he's coaching leaders to do as well, is to take that first 90 minutes and make it very deliberate. Yeah, I like what he said about what you put into your brain and what you allow into your brain. You know, so often, and we've heard this from so many people, right, the last thing in the world you want to do is do the death scroll through the daily news. That will not cheer you up or put you in a positive frame of mind, right? What are you putting into your brain? You know, for him, meditation and prayers and breathing, a very disciplined routine that he says he mixes up a little bit, not a ton. And as we went off air, I've adopted that, that 90 minutes. It really is interesting that it takes 90 minutes to get your breathing down, to get your mindset, to get your day in order. Really found that incredibly helpful. I think it was helpful too when he talked about his CEO group, what's he hearing? He's hearing fatigue, lower emotional ties because of the pandemic and the disconnect, personal connections and team overload. We've been hearing that a lot, haven't we? Yeah, yeah. I just what I noted, yeah, lessened feelings of team because, hey, we're remote or we're hybrid or my own psychology that, you know, the people who often get left out in this anxiety discussion that we're hopefully leading here is the leaders themselves. I was just doing a session in Ohio last week and as we started kind of wrapping up the workshop we were doing with these 150 leaders or so, four or five of them said, you know what was the best part of this is that I'm not alone. I have anxiety and I can actually talk about it now. And so that self-care is so important. And another thing, you know, I mean this is his whole life work is this life plan structure, right? I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, the GPS. Where are you? More importantly, where do you want to go? And how do you get there? You and I both remarked on his investment plan, your net worth in all your bank accounts, not just your net worth financially, but your net worth with your family, with your relationships, you know, with your spirituality and your faith and so on. I thought that was a great way to put it. What is your net worth in other areas that you invest in? Are you nurturing? Are you investing in relationships? I just love this, you know, kind of last thing as he kind of summed up for us. This life plan, if we really do take this, and you can grab, you know, his book for, you know, 15 bucks or so, you can have the plan, or even do it yourself. But the point is, it'll help you understand what you say yes to, but perhaps just as importantly, what you will say no to. We've got to be focused on our goals. Yeah, and we're learning that lesson ongoing, aren't we, about saying no to more things. We get that in our heads that we want to be so helpful to everybody. Everybody that asks us, we say yes. And then at the end of the day, we step back and say, so how did I move the ball forward on this one? Was I just busy or did I make a difference? Well listen, thank you so much for giving us your time for our podcast. We learned so much from the guests. We hope you learn a thing or two as well. We'd like to thank our wonderful producer, Brent Klein, who does such a great job in making us sound better than we really are, to Christy Lawrence, who helps us find these amazing guests that we get to interview and learn from. If you like the podcast, please share it. We'd also love you to join our online community, We Thrive Together, where we are creating a safe place to talk about anxiety and mental health at the workplace. We wanna thank our sponsors. First off, Lifeguides. It's a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors. It provides amazing support from a guide who has walked in your shoes. So, and don't forget that we have a special if you go to lifeguides.com, slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 to the free text box, you get two months free of service. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, we love our Lifeguide sponsor. We also love our new sponsor, Go Happy Hub. Look, if you're looking for a really inclusive way to communicate with your employees and send them messages that matter, they've got a system for frontline employees with candidates with a 95% plus open rate. You can send text messages, enable corporate permissions. You can communicate with frontline leaders in a way that's really meaningful and important. You can send notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities, LTOs, new hire introductions. You name it, they can do it. It's a wonderful system and a way to stay in touch with your frontline employees. It's GoHappyHub, visit them at GoHappyHub.com. Well, Adrian, one more podcast in the book. Who knew that we would enjoy this as much as we do, right? I know. This is our gift to the mental health community because it's just something we just love doing. It's fun and it teaches us so much as well. So, we want to thank everybody for joining us today and we wish you the best of mental health. You bet. Take care and be happy.