Embracing Human First Leadership with the Power of Gratitude

✨ Embracing Human First Leadership: A Conversation with Debbie Plager ✨

🙏 A big thank you to our sponsors, Lifeguides & GoHappyHub, for supporting our journey towards a more empathetic workplace.

Highlights: 📍
💡 Leading with Vulnerability: the importance of leaders being open about their struggles, fostering a culture where it's safe to not be okay.
🧘‍♀️ Gratitude Practices: Learn how incorporating moments of gratitude can alleviate stress and refocus the mind
🌱 Growth Mindset in Action: insights on applying a growth mindset to all aspects of life, including navigating the challenges of diversity, equity, and inclusion conversations.

Join us as we delve into the impactful work of Debbie Plager, the Chief Talent Officer at Hub International. With her extensive experience in driving strategic change and advocating for mental well-being, Debbie sheds light on how leaders can enhance their emotional intelligence and show up authentically in the workplace.

Debbie's approach marries the rigors of organizational development with the heart of human connection, highlighting the significance of a supportive network and the courage to engage in uncomfortable yet necessary dialogues for personal and collective growth.

➡️ For leaders striving to create an environment where every voice is heard and valued, and for anyone seeking strategies to manage work-induced stress, this episode is your beacon of hope. Let's transform our workplaces into sanctuaries of growth, empathy, and empowerment.

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#HumanFirst #Gratitude #GrowthMindset #DiversityAndInclusion #EmotionalIntelligence #WorkplaceWellbeing #Leadership #HubInternational

Transcript

Welcome to the Anxiety at Work podcast. I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author and dear friend, Adrian Gostick. We hope the time you're going to spend with us will help remove the stigma of anxiety and mental health in the workplace and your personal life. We invite experts from the world of work and life to give us ideas and most importantly, tools to deal with anxiety in our world. Speaking of anxiety in our world and health, we wanna thank our dear sponsor LifeGuides, a peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day-to-day stressors by providing a place of empathy, listening, wisdom and support with a guide who has walked in your shoes experiencing the same challenge or life experience as you. Go to lifeguides.com slash schedule a demo and add the code healthy2021 to the free text box to receive two months of free service. Can't beat that, Katie. Two months free service. Are you kidding me? That's great. We also want to send a big, a big thanks to our new sponsor, Go Happy Hub. It is the most inclusive and timely way to communicate and engage directly with your frontline employees. It has a 95% plus open rate and with GoHappy you can send text messages directly from corporate and enable permissions for your frontline leaders to communicate with your team sending notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities, LTOs, new hire introductions, learning content, celebrations and more. Easily get the right message to the right people with a simple segmentation by location, job type, language, et cetera, and get feedback from the field in a structured, digestible and actionable way. That is Go Happy Hub. Look them up, it'll make you happy. Our guest today is our new friend, Debbie Plager, who is the Chief Talent Officer at Hub International. Debbie is an organizational development and senior HR leader with over 20 years experience in helping organizations and teams drive strategic. I don't know why I always have problems with that word drive strategic change and sustainable people strategies that help organizations achieve business results. She's an adjunct faculty member at Northwestern and she is an ICF accredited coach and works internally and externally with individuals and leadership teams on achieving their goals. At HUB, she and her team are accountable for designing and driving the employee experience, culture, and building organizational capability around diversity, equity, and inclusion. What a wonderful resume. Welcome to the podcast, Evie. So thrilled to be here. Thank you. Well, we are excited to have you on the show, Debbie, because you were introduced to us by our dear friends at HR Leaders, and Chris and Shane, and they told us that, look, first and foremost, not only is Debbie incredibly accomplished, but she is a big believer in the power of gratitude. So talk to us a little bit about that, especially how that can impact anxiety in our world today. For sure. And I, my start, I think, with gratitude actually came from my work with the Institute for Health and Human Potential, which is a Canadian-based firm that really specializes in emotional intelligence. And I participated in their workshops. I'm actually now certified to facilitate and I think there I really learned about the brain science and the power of gratitude. So we all know or now we know normally it takes 18 minutes for cortisol to leave our system. Cortisol is really powerful, we need it, but sometimes it just hangs around in our system a little too long. And it turns out right our brains have this secret hack. If we can really pause for a moment and think about a moment where we were really grateful, it actually, the brain releases the right chemicals that sort of wash away the cortisol. And when I first learned that, my actual first applications at that time, I think when I was first introduced to it, I was a new mom, and it's very stressful, right? And you have an infant who doesn't know how, well, actually very clear about communicating their needs, right? It's a certain type of cry. But sometimes how I respond and I think, you know, being all frazzled about that. And so just learning about the power of gratitude and then watching my kids grow up and having those moments. And then me just feeling, returning to the workforce and really realizing there are times when I was just feeling anxious or overwhelmed or I can't do it all," and just saying, wait a minute, I remember this hack. And so just really starting to practice it, and then in seeing that, also realizing and learning about being able to sort of build those positive pathways in our brains, right? So like now, almost every night at dinner, I'm asking my kids for their highs and lows. I'm asking my kids, what's one good thing? I'm asking it different ways too. We just recently went through a 21 gratitude day challenge. And so for me, it's like the more I learn about gratitude and its power on our brains and our body and the need to sort of build a practice, the more excited I am. And so I think that's where I actually first started following the two of you, right? So you'll see me on my LinkedIn feed and anytime that you post something, I'm like, look at this. It's great work. Well, thank you for that follow. And yeah, we obviously are big proponents of the power of gratitude and the research in our book, Leading with Gratitude. I love your rituals, though. I love that you call it a hack. When you get anxious, you go, I remember that hack. And that's your go-to, right? You know, your work with executives and leaders at all levels, you ask them to be human first. I love that expression. And create a space for people to share how they're really feeling. And then to role model talking about mental well-being. So asking them to share their stories, right? So can you talk about how leaders can develop that kind of emotional intelligence? Absolutely, and I also wanna give hats off, human first really came from my boss and I love it. And when I think about the work that I'm doing with executives, often they got there because they're really good at their craft, right? They're really good in their business discipline and not necessarily with leading people. And so I'm just like, that's okay. Guess what? It's a skill, we can all develop it. And even just, I think oftentimes when I'm coaching, I'm the one sort of safe space and vulnerable space that they have in their day, right? Where they can let down their guards and they can really be themselves and they can share what they're worried about. And I, and when I, sometimes I'll reciprocate and I'll say, well, here's what I'm worried about. And I said, what did, what do you think that just did for our relationship? Like I feel so much safer with you knowing how you feel and you feel that level of trust. So I'm not saying go share everything with the entire world all at once, but you can start in little bits and pieces sharing more of yourself, sharing when you were anxious about something or you were vulnerable or you felt overwhelmed. How many of us haven't felt overwhelmed in the last 18 months? None of us. So it's not going to be as awkward or as unusual as it might have been 18 months ago for leaders to start to share a little bit more about their internal dialogue and their struggles. And so what I ask, you know, folks I'm working with is just start small, start with your circle, see how it goes. Maybe share something more. What happens? You know, and we have leaders that are in all different places on this continuum. I've worked with leaders that are very open about their mental health challenges, and they they put it out there and they write and I think that that's fabulous. And I know that not everybody's gonna do that, but I do know that everybody has the ability to take a step forward in being more vulnerable and sharing how they weren't okay. And I also remind our leaders, like, we have to role model first. We have to ask for feedback first. We have to constantly role model, and don't just try it once. Try it again and again and again. That's such a great tip for, you know, because I love that you coach. You're not only, I mean, you don't have to coach in your position. You've got a lot going on, but you do. And I love that you're working individually with leaders and helping people. You know, Chester and I, we do a lot of executive coaching too. And I must admit, that's one of the bits of advice I give them is to be vulnerable. I don't know how vulnerable I'm being as a coach myself. So thank you, Debbie. That's, I just took that note and I went, I need to work on that. So that's great. Self is instrument, right? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. The cobbler's kids here. Do you think we're coming to grips overall with like the true emotional toll of the pandemic yet? That's the question I wanted to ask you because, you know, in your position, you're seeing this constant pressure and energy to get your work done and do this good job. People are 24 seven, they're not taking vacation. What do you think it's gonna take to get each of us to maybe better thrive? And what are you doing in your organization with your coaching to help people? Yeah, so the first question, do I think we've really understood the emotional toll? No, I don't think we have. I'll answer that first from the lens of a parent, right? So when I'm watching and reading what pediatricians are saying, they're like, they're going to do longitudinal studies of the impact of the pandemic on our children, which we're not going to necessarily see for 10, 15 years. But those of us that have kids like mine are, you know, at this point, 13 and 10, one of my closest colleagues that we work, hers are now two and four and a half. So I mean, she was like, right in the middle of it. And And I saw the toll it was taking on my two, and I saw the toll that it was taking on me. And I felt for a long time, like I was the chief wellbeing officer for my family, right? And not doing a good job of it, but just trying the best so that I could. So I don't think that we understand yet. And I hope that, you know, all the academics out there and all of the companies, I hope that we actually spend some time to research what was the impact so that we're better prepared. In terms of, I think about, it depends where you are in the world and what is the state of the pandemic and what is open and what is closed. And if like where I am in Chicago, like it was open and it was closed again with Delta, but at least my kids are back to school. So that's a sense of normalcy. But I will tell you at work, and no matter if it's at Hub or any other company, and I'm sure you see this because you work with people all over, people are exhausted. They're just exhausted to a level. It's like we haven't just run one marathon. We've been running multiple marathons for multiple months. And if you think about everything we know about sports and health, we're supposed to have a rest. We're supposed to have a reset. I haven't rested. Have you rested? Have you really disconnected? And so do I think we're in a better place now? I don't know. I mean, I have people that are so interested in doing more with their teams, and they're like, I'm just tapped out. I'm just emotionally and mentally tapped out. And so the way I'm kind of working with them now is okay, and they feel guilty about it. So they were like, what can I do? What can I do? I was like, well, what's one small thing? Is there one small thing that you could do that will make you feel better? That will make you feel like you're making a difference? Just do that one small thing. So I think that's one thing. And we're really conscious in our company in terms of what we're trying to push out to people right now. How we're pushing it out, what's required, what's recommended, how do we remind people and you know the feedback we so for example last year Hub started summer camp and we started it because nobody was going anywhere and it was an all-volunteer effort where people it was it was remarkable. Talk about something I'm grateful for. People thought I was crazy. They're like, summer camp, it's so kitschy. I'm like, yes, it's kitschy. But we had fireside chats. We had archery. We had skills. We covered emotional intelligence. We covered how to talk with your kids about race and racism. We talked about, we had cooking shows. We had gardening. We had people sharing their passions. It was all volunteer. It was all run like shoestring budget, right? And it was a chance for people to give back and feel connected. And I think there's that sense of community and being part of something bigger, which does help. We ran it again this year and people are excited about it, but people are also like, I'm just zoomed out. I can't go to one more thing. Like I'll check it out, but it's just, I think it's a really good data point of the intention is still there, but it's the time and just how tired people are. I think until people get a chance to take a break, really disconnect and go back. That's where I'm really just trying to encourage my leaders to do, encourage them to role model. And you know, it doesn't take a lot because they're asking their teams to do it all the time. I was like, well, how about you role model doing that as well? Yeah, yeah. You know, it is so interesting, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, it is kind of, there are days when you wake up and you're just tired, you know, and it's kind of hard to put your finger on like, why am I not? This is not going to be a hard day. I had a good night's sleep. It's that marathon that we're all running, right? That it just wears you down. And there are just some days when, you know, it's interesting, just the other day, people say, Hey, are you okay? Yeah, I'm okay. Stop asking me that. How can listeners learn more about your work, Debbie? Where would you send them? To my work as a coach or to the type of work that I do as a talent practitioner? How about both? Well, you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'm usually pretty active on LinkedIn. I would also follow, honestly, anything that IHHP puts out in an institute for health and human potential. They did put something out for World Gratitude Day. We were just talking about that. I am going to probably start my own site too. I've been maybe shamed into starting an Instagram page because I have a accountability for talent brands. So I follow what we do and I was really thinking about what do I want to start putting on my own page and I think it's sources for gratitude, sources for small habits, sources for change. So I'm up there now, but I haven't posted, but maybe if enough people follow me, I'll feel the nudge. Thank you for you. You know, back to the pandemic, right? It's highlighted the need to truly check in with one another and create that space for someone to not be fine and not be okay at work. Can you talk about how you're helping managers and your employees, you know, in that regard when they're just not feeling okay? Well, I even think about the check-in, right? Where you just, you know, Adrian asked you, are you okay? I'm okay. And it's like, well, what's the follow-up question? You're like, okay, on a scale of okay, how okay are you? So I think one thing, it goes back to that role modeling piece, which I know I might sound like a broken record, but I really think that if leaders can role model and say, well, you know what, I'm not feeling okay today. And I gotta go to sleep, but I'm just, I'm not feeling it. Right, so it's okay if you're not. I think that's reminding managers to do that, reminding leaders to do that. I also think sometimes, I know it's gonna be silly, but sometimes asking a different question. So not just are you okay, but you know, what's one thing you want to make sure you're doing today? Or what's one way I could really help you? Or what's the one thing you really need or you wished for? You had a magic wand and you could have something, what would you have right now? How do you tap into what people really need? And honestly, I used to say at the beginning of the pandemic, you know, we used to do a lot of FaceTime or Zoom calls or whatever. I'm at the point now, most of my one-on-ones are walking one-on-ones on the phone. I'm old school. And I think just even texting people and just asking a question or texting people, like I'm thinking about you. We've got a great meme thing going on in our team and I love it and it keeps me going. We also, interestingly enough, almost all of us have dogs. So we always have dog pictures that are going around. But you know, leaders know about their people, right? But leaders know about their families. They know what's going on with their pets, if there's something that they're concerned about with mom or dad. And it's, again, if you find that one thing that is not just generic, but like, hey, I saw this and was thinking of you, whether it's funny or serious or not, I think those are ways that our leaders can really show up as more human and people really see, they feel heard and seen. And it's a lot more easy to answer that question, no, how are you really? Or on a scale of one to 10, one being sucky and 10 being exceptionally sucky, where are you? Like, right, it allows people to really kind of say what's going on. I thought for sure the 10 was going to be positive. Right? I got you to think about it. Yeah, sucky and exceptionally sucky, yeah. I love your idea, too, about varying the way that you meet. I'm with you. I was wall-to-wall Zoom yesterday and a friend called and I said, he says, can I send you a link? I said, no, just call me. It'll be fine. I'm going to go for a walk. I love that variation and these little random things that show up that become very personal. I think that's a really good takeaway for me for what you just said is vary the way that you message, vary the way that you ask about people and make it a little creative in some way. The Internet makes it easy now so you can look like you're really sophisticated. I'm telling you, there's a meme out there for everything. Love it. Hey, one of the things you're passionate about, I know we've chatted about, is that this idea, you know, Carol Dweck's work in growth mindset and others have taken that and run with it. I love that. Now, you're a culture practitioner, but you're also, like many of us, a parent. You're a spouse. You're a coach. Tell us how this growth mindset can work in our worlds and especially how it can help us bring down our anxiety levels. Yeah. It's so interesting, Adrian, when we started, the beginning of 2019, our team came up with a word for the year, and the beginning of 2020, we came up with a word for the year. I went back into my office recently and it was experimentation. I'm like, oh, we didn't need to experiment that much. But we were really focused on growth mindset and said, how do we weave this into everything we're doing from a people practice perspective? Because I know as a culture practitioner, the way you can create or support or reinforce or change a culture, it's all the standard touch points, right, it's not just, oh, you say it, it's how are you reinforced, how are you rewarded for it, how are you onboarded, how do you talk about it at promotions, how do you talk about it in the big work meetings? Right? So we wanted to say, how can HR start to really live a growth mindset and how can we begin to weave it in? And for me, as a parent, I gave an example. So I'm like a beginning yoga practitioner and I've been doing yoga for about 30 years. I'm still a beginner. And my older son needed to do some yoga. He had some really, some hamstring issues. And so we're doing yoga together and we're doing like a really basic video. We're next to each other and I'm just bending somewhere and he goes, he looks over at me and he's like, why can you do that and I can't do that? I said, first of all, there's no no in yoga. It's just not yet or sometimes not today. Like I might be able to do it today. I can't even do the same pose tomorrow. Second of all, I've been trying it for a while and getting my body used to it. And sometimes I've learned how to fall down and whatnot. So in that moment, I was like, oh, wait a minute, it's actually like yoga and growth mindset and trying to really role model it with my kids. Where I think growth mindset really helps with anxiety. I mean, we actually used it a lot when we talked in 2020 so much about social unrest the murder of George Floyd in our DEI work about, I think in particular, a lot of leaders, even a lot of HR leaders feel really uncomfortable leading and holding space for DEI conversations because it's so sensitive, it's raw, and they're like, I'm not an expert. I said, people, you don't need to be an expert. How about we go through this and we say, we are gonna learn together, we're going to stumble together, we're going to grow together. And I don't know if you've seen it, it's all over the internet, you know, they have that like that growth, that learning zone thing about like, right, you stay here, and then you start to experiment, and then you really want to be ultimately on the edge of your learning. And I think about that with with diversity and equity and inclusion, I can't think of a more challenging and more needed conversation that teams that companies that communities need to have. And so how do we go into this and say, we're not gonna be perfect, but that's okay. As long as our intent is right, as long as we're open to, we get feedback and we learn what words we use, how we phrase something, how we just need to listen. And I think that that was something that was really important for our HR team to remind ourselves of. And I think we're still early on our journey. So when we get to anxiety at work, I think again, it's very similar. It's a really challenging conversation in some ways. People, they don't talk about mental health. I think in Canada, right? I think you guys are like further ahead, Chester, than we are in the States. And you've been talking a lot more about mental wellbeing. And I think that this pandemic has shown a light on it, the way that, you know, it's gonna speed up the normalcy in talking about mental well-being. But I think having a growth mindset about it is, okay, I don't know a lot. Yeah, you're going to make mistakes. Yeah, I'm going to stick my foot in it. Okay. But that doesn't mean you don't go. Do you not go learn about this line of business or these customers or this technology because you're not an expert yet? No. If you know how to learn and you're open to feedback, we can get better. And so for me, actually having a growth mindset sort of frame is so key for just about anything. And I think especially now talking about anxiety at work. And I love where you're going there, especially bringing the DEI ideas. When Chester and I, we wrote Anxiety at Work, there was a chapter missing. We didn't have our chapter in on being an ally and our editor said, hey, you guys need to write about the incredibly high anxiety levels in people who feel marginalized, whether through race, religion, whatever it is, sexual orientation. And we went, hey, no, we're old white guys. Why would we write about that? And it's exactly what you're saying, Debbie, is that they said, look, you've got to be brave. You've got to have this conversation. You won't be perfect. And it's the same thing with anxiety, that we sometimes we're afraid to have difficult conversations that are really important. And I love what you're saying. Think about it as a growth mindset. It helped Chester and I to write that chapter to become, well, not experts, but to become more informed, I would say, on these subjects. And the same with anxiety, right? Love that. You know, we're, and you've shared a few of them already, we're always interested in rituals of really successful people, things they do to keep themselves up, to keep anxiety low, to keep energy high. Can you share some of your personal rituals that you go through, your mantras and yoga? You've shared a couple, but I'd love you to give us a little list. I think one of them is actually one of the easiest things to do. We all, I think, have sometimes our own rituals for, well, actually we all, but a lot of us have it for ending the day, right? Closing out, making the distinction. And I read somewhere about starting the day, and I began asking myself these three questions, which the reading laid out. The first was, why do you do what you do? And so every morning I'd ask myself, why do I do what I do? How am I connecting to my personal why? And what's interesting is, I've been doing this now for about two years. It's not always the same answer. It's a variation on a theme. It's like there's something else that's emerging. You know, usually it's about like what my purpose is. And you know, but sometimes the outcome or the intent is a little bit different. The second question is, who in your life is supporting you doing what it is you're meant to do? So then you start to expand your thinking out. And I almost always have the same cast of characters, but sometimes, one, they're always in a different order. And two, sometimes there's other people that come in. And it allows me this moment of just really feeling grateful for the people that are in my life that are allowing me to do what I'm here to do. And then the last one is, how do you want and need to show up today? So then I'll actually kind of look at my schedule and say, what do I need to do? Am I in getting it done mode? Am I in coach mode? Am I in connecting mode? Am I in support mode? And just having a couple of words really frames the day for me. And I leave that, and it takes me less than a minute. So I used to do it when I took the train. It was one of the last things I would do before walking to the office. Now I don't really do a train ride, so I will do it one of the first things before I turn on my computer and really try to get myself centered for the day. I love that. Well said. There's been so much I've taken from our discussion today, Debbie. If you had to put one or two things you would like our listeners to take away today, what would they be about bringing down our anxiety levels, enhancing our emotional intelligence and our gratitude? What would you say? What's the most important thing? I mean, I'm going to go back to where I started, which is, I think it's about gratitude helps with both of those things, right? Gratitude is one of the reasons that they taught it in my emotional intelligence work is because it brings stress levels down, it then allows us to re-engage more fully, right? So if we want to have more real conversations, if we want to make sure we're actually being as productive as we can at work, then we need all of our brain, not just our limbic system, right, we need our neocortex. And if the cortisol is running, we lose this. So recognizing that, wow, there's actually, you know, all it takes is 30 seconds. And so I think if people can learn those hacks and how to get those moments of gratitude, if leaders can learn how to recognize when they're feeling stressed, if they can learn to recognize how their team members are stressed, and say, hey, would you be willing to do this with me for a moment? Right, that allows the anxiety to go down, and it allows us to engage in a more sort of fruitful and productive conversation. So I think that that's like number one, two, and three. And maybe the last one I'll throw in is I just, again, I think that this piece about a growth mindset is just something you can apply to everything. Because I don't know about you, but I didn't know how to work in a pandemic. I wasn't around in 1918. We all figured it out, right? We bumped, we made mistakes, we learned. I had been working virtually, a lot of people hadn't. We figured it out. I didn't really have as many really raw conversations around race as I had over the past 18 months. That one I haven't figured out. That one I'm on a journey around mental health and mental well-being. I think we are getting better. So we give ourselves grace and if we can take our falling down as learnings and if we ask for feedback, we're all able to learn, we're all able to grow. So I think those would be my two things, gratitude and growth mindset. Great. This has been really, really fun. It's been so informative. You know, Adrian and I, we're note takers. We scribble lots of notes. I've got a whole page full of great ideas here. I can't thank you enough for being our guest today and being vulnerable and sharing your practices. And thank you for doing what you do. You are making a difference. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Well, another really amazing session. Debbie Plager just gave us so many really amazing ideas. I loved, you know, my first kind of big takeaway was, you know, it's this idea of human first, right? Are we sharing as leaders what we are concerned about because if we expect our people to be vulnerable, but we're not, it's just not going to work. Yeah, and you know, it's interesting. You think, oh, that kind of sounds like I have a startup idea. You know, it's not. They have 10,000 employees. This is a big corporation and the focus on mental health and making people feel safe at work, I think it's extraordinary. I love her gratitude hack. Right at the beginning, she said, a big follower of you guys and gratitude and this idea of I'm going to take a minute and take a moment of gratitude. You and I both know you can't be in a state of anxiety and a state of gratitude at the same time. So if you have a choice, pick gratitude, right? Yeah, exactly. And thankfully, she's read our book, Leading with Gratitude, which is probably the best selling book ever with that title. You know, one of the things too is that I love that she talked about, look, we're all just exhausted right now. We're supposed to rest and for 19 months now, we just haven't. And so when leaders get really worked up, I don't know if I can do that will help. I like that because it helps us, it helps others around us. Instead of thinking we have to change the world here, no. It's the starfish, right? We're making an impact on one person, one day. What small thing can we do today to help? Yeah, you know what I like about that too is it gets you moving. It gives you momentum. You know, you start with one small thing, then you can do another small thing and another small thing. I loved when she talked about her family, that I had to be the chief well-being officer of my family because, you know, not only are people exhausted, your family's exhausted, your kids are exhausted. You know, whether they're doing school remotely or now they're trying to go back and there's just so much going on. I love that she put herself in that position to say, I'm not going to leave these best practices at work. I'm going to take them home. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Talked a lot about growth mindset, which I thought was really important. We talk about Carol Dweck's work and anxiety at work, but we've been a great proponent of that for a long time. And I love how she took it to not only her HR practice, but her family and said, look, we're gonna be uncomfortable and it's okay. You know, she says, we're not gonna be perfect. Like for example, their push after George Floyd was let's talk about diversity, equity, inclusion. Let's have some uncomfortable conversations and it's okay. We're not going to be perfect. So I love that. I also loved her three questions she starts her day with. You know, why do we do what we do? Who's gonna support me? And how do I need to show up today? Yeah, back to that, you know, we're gonna have uncomfortable conversations. She said, you know, you're gonna stick your foot in it. I love that expression. You're gonna make mistakes and that's okay. And that's okay. You know, I loved one last thing from me, her idea about yoga on the growth mindset. You know, when her son said, hey, how can you do that and I can't? In yoga, it's not yet, not today. It's okay, it's part of the journey. We'll eventually get there. And some days we'll be better at it than others. It doesn't mean that you have this continuous growth. Just so many great ideas, and I do love that, you know, as she concluded, she said, give yourself a little grace. Give yourself some space. Falling down is where you learn. And that was a great takeaway for me. I love that idea of you falling down. And we wanna be grateful ourselves to our sponsors. When you do fall down, you need a guide. So we wanna thank our sponsor LifeGuides. It's peer-to-peer community that helps people navigate through their day stressors with a guide who has had similar experiences. It's very powerful. Go to lifeguides.com, schedule a demo and add the code Healthy2021 and you get two months of free service. So why not give it a try, see if it will help you and your people. You know, my mom used to say, if it's free, it's me. Two months for free. Also a big thanks to our sponsor Go Happy Hub. You know if you're looking for a way to communicate with your employees nobody does it better than Go Happy Hub. Frontline employees and candidates have a 95% plus open rate. You can send text messages directly from corporate, enable permissions for your frontline leaders, you can communicate by sending thank-you notes, little notes of gratitude, logistical updates, referral opportunities, LTOs, new hires, all kinds of stuff. If you need to communicate it, GoHappyHub is the way to do it. That's GoHappyHub. Look them up. They'll make you happy. A special thanks to our producer Brent Klein, to Christy Lawrence who finds amazing guests like Debbie, and to all of you who listen in. that helps us build up our network and really get this out to more people. So thank you for listening in. And if you like the podcast please share it with your friends and family. We'd love you to join our online community WeThriveTogether.global. It's a safe place to talk about mental health in the workplace. And I want to put in a little plug to follow us on LinkedIn. We've got a wonderful gratitude journal as well. If you're looking for some positive input in your life after you've death-scrolled through your news for the day, that's not a bad place to sign up. Well, Adrian, another great week. We're going to have another one a week from now. Always a pleasure to be with you, my friend. Oh, it was great. We learned a lot and it was Thank you.