The Three Cs of Meaningful Work: Community, Contribution & Challenge

In a world of complexity, purpose at work is still the clearest path to resilience and results.

🔔 Subscribe & Share this episode if you believe leaders can—and should—create workplaces where people actually want to show up.

Gostick & Elton are Joined by researchers and authors Wes Adams and Tamara Myles, co-authors of Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee, the conversation explores the foundation of workplace meaning and how any job—yes, any—can become meaningful with the right leadership practices. Tamara and Wes introduce their compelling "Three Cs" framework—Community, Contribution, and Challenge—based on a robust research study across 25 industries and thousands of employees. 

Key Takeaways:

 - Meaningful Work is Built on the Three Cs: Community, Contribution, and Challenge

 - Small Moments Create Big Meaning: Leaders don’t need grand gestures to make work meaningful

 - Meaning is Contagious—Start by Creating it for Others: One of the most effective ways to deepen your own sense of purpose is to help others find meaning in their work.

Quote highlights: 

“Meaning is created in moments that matter.” – Tamara Myles 
“You don’t need to save the world to feel that your work matters.” – Wes Adams

🔗 Learn more and explore their tools at makeworkmeaningful.com

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Visit thecultureworks.com for free tools to elevate your team’s engagement and mental well-being.

Transcript

Work has never been more complex. But through it all, a single thing remains a core driver of fulfilled performing people. And that is their belief that their work has meaning. Hello, I'm Chester Ellen, and with me is my dear friend and co-author, Adrian Gostick. Well, thanks, Ches. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. And our guests today say the meaning-based economy has arrived, and that means leaders need to help their people find meaning at work. Every job can be meaningful when leaders create a workplace that focuses on three things, they say, community, contribution, and challenge. Well, as always, we hope the time you spend with us will help reduce the stigma of anxiety at work and in your personal life. And with us are our new friends, Wes Adams and Tamara Miles. They are the authors of the new book, Meaningful Work, How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee. Boy, is that a high bar. So, as background, Wes is CEO of SV Consulting Group and a positive psychology researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies the leadership practices and organizational structures that help employees thrive. Tamara is a faculty member at Boston College, good hockey at Boston College, by the way, and a researcher and instructor at the University of Pennsylvania. She helps leaders and organizations unlock the power of meaningful work to drive peak performance, innovation, and resilience. Just that, that's all. And listen, welcome to the show Wesson and Tamara, we are delighted to have you here. Thank you, we are delighted to have you here. Thank you. We are delighted to be here. Absolutely. So great to be here. Thanks. Well, with Chester and I, when we get interviewed, we usually both end up answering every question. You can do whatever you want. I'll let one of you kick off. Tell us first off, you know, for those who may be kind of wondering, okay, what is meaningful work, then why is this important? one of you kick off. Tell us first off, for those who may be kind of wondering, OK, what is meaningful work then? Why is this important? One of you kick us off and tell us the impetus for this. Tamara and I have developed a very intricate series of facial and hand gestures so that we know which person should answer each question. But I'm going to let Tamara kick it off. Sure. So meaningful work, the way we define it, is the way that emerged in our qualitative and quantitative study. And basically, it's worth that, provides a sense of community, helps us contribute to something that matters, and challenges us to learn and grow. And so these three Cs, community, contribution, and challenge make work feel really meaningful when these are present in our work cultures and work environments. And a really simple way to think about it is meaningful work is work that gives us more than a paycheck. That is a wonderful definition. You know, Adrian and I have worked in culture for a long time. Our definition, we talk about all in culture is very similar, where people believe what they do matters and they make a difference, that idea of meaningful work. So, you know, as we dive a little deeper here, and this will be for you, Wes, but people might assume that they can only find meaning at work if they work for like a nonprofit, right? It's like disaster relief and so on, or maybe a life saving profession like, you know, hospitals and so on. So what are the biggest misconceptions about meaning meaningfulness and having meaningful work? This is one of the first questions we get when we start talking about meaningful work. And I think, you know, your job doesn't have to be your life's calling for your work to feel worthwhile. So while it's amazing to work in a helping profession or at a nonprofit, and those can be very meaningful jobs, moments of meaning can happen in every job, every day, if we know where to look for them and with the help of great leaders. So across these three Cs, community, contribution, and challenge, there are these small but very powerful moments of connecting with someone else in your organization, being able to show up fully as yourself and be seen and valued. There are these moments where something that you did positively impacted someone else. And that could be a colleague. It doesn't have to be saving the world or making a huge impact on society. It could simply be your boss or somebody that you work with coming to you and saying, hey, that thing that you did that helped get the reports out on time to the client, that was really amazing. And you really like helped me out there. You know, that's enough to help us feel a sense of contribution. And then that challenge is really about learning and growing. So, you know, those are, you know, can be small things that happen that are stretching us where we're getting to expand our capabilities. And what we found in our research, and we researched 1,000, you know, we interviewed and surveyed thousands of people across 25 different industries, was that these three sources of meaning hold across all of those jobs, and that they have the same kind of impact, right? They're available, and that they have the same kind of impact, right? They're available and that they have the same impact on both individual wellbeing and resilience and satisfaction but also productivity, creativity, innovation, meaning is really that upstream factor that drives all of the outcomes that we want as individuals and also as leaders of organizations. You know, it's so interesting just just to follow up to that, Wes, because, you know, we talk about creating a community at work, and you've seen all the studies about loneliness is so high, and where do you find your community? And the community is more and more becoming your work community, which isn't all that stable, right? You get merged and acquired and move on, and you're creating more and more communities. In your research, I am sure there was an example of a leader that did something, just a simple little gesture that made a huge difference. You gave us sort of a generic example of, hey, good job, which I appreciate. I'm sure you've got one of your favorite stories of a leader that tapped into making work meaningful and being a part of the community. Can you share with us? Absolutely. So I will start by saying that the most powerful question we asked in our research to predict a sense of community or that predicted a sense of community was this, does your leader care about what's happening in your life outside of work? right? And so those who answered yes felt much more connected and accepted and seen. And so the tip or the to-do for leaders is to care about what's happening in people's lives outside of work. Take some time to ask about something beyond their to-do list. Don't be so transactional. And then also remember, and if they said they're running a marathon or training for a marathon, remember, follow up. If they mentioned their kids' names, make sure you remember and then ask and follow up on that. And so to answer your question about an example, when we, throughout, we started the study before COVID and then COVID hit, so we started the study before COVID and then COVID hit. So we continued the study throughout COVID and then post COVID, we're continuing the study. And an organization and a leader that really stood out to us, you know, during COVID, when COVID hit, that really exemplifies this, what I just talked about was HubSpot. So HubSpot is a tech company here in Massachusetts. They're global, but their headquarters in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And we interviewed Katie Burke, who was the chief human resources officer, chief people officer back then. She has now since left the organization. But she gave us an example of when COVID hit, right, everybody all of a sudden was trying to figure out how to work from home. And a all of a sudden was trying to figure out how to work from home. And a lot of the organizations were trying to figure out the technology and focused on like, how do we get work done and how are we gonna deliver to clients? And that's really important. And of course HubSpot did those things too. But what they also did was notice that parents with young kids that were trying to all of a sudden homeschool, they were struggling. So how do we make it a little easier for them? So they hired musicians and entertainers to do Zoom entertainment for the kids, like an hour a week to give parents a break, right? They also noticed that there was a social justice reckoning, right? People were, it was George Floyd. So people were really interested in buying books that were written by people of color. And so they found independent bookstores, you know, in every... noticed that really made a difference. That's awesome. Yeah, noticing those little things, you know, about the people in our care. You know, Chester, for example, is a semi professional duck herder. He's really into that. Like actual ducks? Well, it's semi professional, you know. Okay, I just made that one. Yeah, I just made that one. Yeah, I just made that one. Yeah, I just made that one. Yeah, I just made that one. He's really into that. Like actual ducks? Well, it's semi-professional. You know? OK, I just made that one up. But OK. No. But I mean, yeah, I know. I'm getting the point is that, yeah, look, caring about it. And this is interesting. It's sort of counterintuitive. I don't care. It's not like I don't care about you as a human being, which is just awesome. Okay, you talk in the book that about, you've mentioned these three Cs, community, contribution, and challenge. So give us something a little bit more on each of these, maybe walk us through these. How do we build up as leaders in community? How do we help people feel like they're making a contribution? Give them ways to stretch, I'm guessing, and grow as a challenge. Give us a little bit more on those three Cs. Just to continue on this idea of community that Tamara was talking about, one of the folks that we really admire is Dr. Vivek Murthy, who was the surgeon general, twice the surgeon general of the U.S., and has written about loneliness and, you know, very focused on those topics and what it takes to make a well-being in the workplace. And one of his practices that we're very fond of is he calls the full story and it, no, sorry, the inside scoop, right? I always mix that up. I don't know why. I like the full story though, so maybe I'll use that going forward, but, um, inside scoop. And so just creating five minutes at the beginning of each, um, team meeting each weekly team meeting where one person is invited to share a picture or an object that your grandmother gave you and why it matters. And it's really just an opportunity for people to bring them full their full selves into the conversation. And especially when you're working in a remote or a hybrid environment, we can just be so transactional, right? We jump in, we get right to business and we click off and we go do our tasks. And by intentionally creating this space, we get to know each other and connect with each other on a, on a more human level. And what he found was that really helped cross organizational collaboration. People who didn't necessarily work with each other day to day got to know each other. And when they had to work across, um, to get projects done, it really helped facilitate that and drove engagement and retention as well in the organization so that those little moments can be very powerful. Tamara, give us one on contribution then. Give us an example like that, if you would. Sure. So contribution comes from knowing that what we do matters, right? And so there's a few different ways that leaders can connect those dots for people. One is simply by recognizing, appreciating, and thanking them for their efforts. You know, research finds that one thank you once a week from a manager is enough to cut disengagement and burnout in half. And yet, less than 40% of people feel like they are recognized appropriately. And so yesterday, I was talking to a consultant who works with dental offices specifically, and she said that one of the things that she teaches is to start the day with buttons in your pocket for the number of employees you have. And as you go through the day and you see people doing something well or doing their job, you know, engaged or well, just just thank them and say, hey, thanks for for doing this. I noticed how you're doing this really well. And then transferring the button to the other pocket so that they know that every day they are noticing what people are doing and thanking them for, you know, on the moment, on the spot. You don't wanna wait until the year-end review to tell people what they did well. You need to tell them in the moment what they're doing well to reinforce so people can keep doing. So that's a very easy, accessible, free one for contribution. Yeah, we've had many of our clients have, which is who've done those types of things, giving away coins with their logos or different things. And the idea is, yeah, move from pocket to pocket. That idea, you go left brain to right brain in a way, and you're getting all your brain working on that. All right, last one is then challenge. Wes, can you give us something? I challenge you to give us something on challenge. As a leader, one of the most effective things you can do is help people see what opportunities or potential growth opportunities they have that maybe they don't yet see for themselves. And so often we have one-on-one scheduled once a week or once every other week and we use those to focus on, okay, where's this project? What's happening with this task? And using part of that time to have a development conversation for as um, as a leader to say, you know, where are you growing? Where are some opportunities for you to grow and even better, here are some things that I've seen that you're good at. And here are some ways that I think you could apply those things to improve in the organization. How can you see possibility for someone and also provide the support for them to get there. We found, you know, in the book, in the challenge section, we have this zone of possibility matrix. And it's really about a combination of not just having high expectations for someone, but also providing support for them to get there. So how are you not just pushing them out of the nest, but also giving them a little bit of a hand as they're flapping their wings? Excellent. You know, it's so interesting, Tamara, you talked about these little recognition moments. I mean, that's our first seven books that we wrote were all about exactly what you're talking about, little tokens and rituals. So you're really speaking our language. You probably saw the big smiles on our face when you said, buttons in their pockets. You go, yeah, we know that one. That's a good one. My question for you is on the meaning piece, because meaningful work, I mean, it literally has different interpretations for literally everybody, you know. I always like about every two or three years, I reread, you know, Victor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning. And we've got a ritual in our 100 Coaches group of six questions you ask yourself at the end of every day. And one is, did I do my best to find meaning today? As we do our executive coaching, that one is always the stickler. You know, did I find meaning today? So flesh that out a little bit, because meaningful work really does mean different things to different people. How do you? I think generationally too, right? Absolutely. Is there a difference that way? Yeah. So these are great questions, and I love Viktor Frankl's book as well. I read it every year. So we as humans are meaning-making machines. We cannot help ourselves, but we create meaning from every experience, right? That we are storytelling animals. We tell stories, we connect the dots. And so meaning comes from coherence, understanding how things add up. It comes from significance, knowing that we matter, that what we do matters, and from purpose, from having goals and being goal-directed in our actions. So these are the three components of meaning in life, and we also find that it's really difficult to have a meaningful life without meaning at work, without meaningful work. Work is what contributes to our sense of identity. We spend more hours working than doing, more waking hours working than doing anything else in our lives. And so we need to find meaning at work to have a meaningful life. And so meaning at work, like you said, is a little bit different for everyone. You know, if you think about it in the three elements, the three C's that make up our sense of meaning at work, maybe for me, community is the most important. And if I go through the day and don't connect with people, don't feel supported, don't have a sense of community, that day is not gonna feel meaningful. But maybe Adrian, for you, it's a sense of challenge that you learned, that you did something hard and at the end of the day, that day mattered, right? So it differs for everyone and I think that's where individual preferences and options come in. But that said, if we look at Gen Z versus other generations, what we find in the research is that actually every generation cares about meaningful work and actually defines it similarly. There are very small variations as to which of the Cs are most important. And it doesn't really have to do as much with generational differences as it does with career stage differences. So, you know, if you are a Gen Xer that is a senior leader and you've had a long career, maybe what really matters for you is a sense of contribution. You want to give back, you want to mentor people, you want to leave a legacy and that's kind of what you're prioritizing now. If you're in early stages of your career, so that's where most of the Gen Zers are, what we find is that what they really prioritize and care about is challenge. They want somebody to notice them, to see their strengths and their potential, and to give them opportunities to grow and stretch, a little room to make mistakes, but learn. And so that's, but those differences aren't huge. In our research, they're not even that statistically significant. So we didn't even publish that data. But when anecdotally, when we talk to people, that's where we're noticing the differences. This is Yeah, this is really powerful work you're putting out here, guys. And I think people want to learn more about your work. Of course, let's just remind everybody, the book's title is meaningful work, how to ignite passion and performance in every employee. And we're speaking with Wes Adams and tomorrow miles. How do people learn more about your work? Where would you send them? You can find us on our website, which is make work meaningful.com. And Tamara and I are both on LinkedIn and Instagram and would love to see you there. Awesome. Hey, our time has just flown by. This is amazing. So last question, maybe give us some kind of last thoughts. One thing I'd really be interested to is how hybrid work is working into all of this. So maybe, you know, the last question for me is, you know, is that making it probably is a big difference. So how do leaders demonstrate meaning when people are separated by digital distance, time zones, et cetera. This has definitely become more difficult. So the job of, of being a leader in those environments requires a lot more intention, it requires a lot more focus lot more focus on the things that matter. And I think this idea of demonstrating meaning is really important, right? Because we're not passing by each other in the halls anymore. We're not, you know, sort of casually observing how the sausage gets made, so to speak. And so leaders actually have to share that information. They have to be storytellers of this is what's happening in the organization. This is a decision that we made, and here's how it connects to you. Here's how your work ladders up to this larger thing that the company is working on. Here's how it aligns with our values. And here's why it's meaningful to me. And so creating time and space to do that, we have a couple of tools that you can also find on our website. One of them is the moments that matter canvas and you guys were talking earlier about asking yourself a few questions at the end of the day, right? And we find that reflection is really critical to building meaning, taking that. We're all so busy. We're all racing from one thing to the next, trying to fit it all in and spend some time with our families and we don't have the opportunity to actually make meaning if we don't take that step back. So thinking about what was meaningful in your day or what was meaningful this week and writing that out and then that's great for the leader and then sharing that with the rest of the team helps them do the same thing. It helps them make those connections. And the second tool that we have is it's a spot as we call it a spotlighting model and it's a way to communicate what's happening in an organization by tying it into the values and the priorities that we care about as a community, right? So we decided to acquire this new company and bring it in and we did that because we see it serving our clients in this way and we see it providing support to employees in this way and here's how it ties to the values that we all care about. And so being intentional about how we're communicating those things and not just assuming people know is a really powerful way for leaders to do that. Excellent. Okay, we're in the lightning round. So I'm going to ask you to do two things really quick. One is it's Anxiety at Work is the podcast. Give us one practice that keeps your anxiety low. And one thing you would like people to remember from this podcast. So Tamara, you're up and Wes, you're right after. Just as fast as you can. One thing that I do to keep my anxiety a check is go for a walk. I have two dogs. They help me find a lot of joy in my day. And then taking them for a walk, I think, is something that I really prioritize and it helps my mental health. And then one thing that I want everybody to remember from our conversation is that meaning is created in moments that matter. Small everyday moments of connection, of acknowledgement, and of challenging, pushing people, those moments add up to a meaningful career. Excellent. Wes? For me, I find that if I make a little plan the night before, if I write out what are the most important things I need to do tomorrow, that when I wake up in the morning, I feel much less anxious about my day or getting everything done because I've already decided what's important. So that takes away a lot of stress for me. And if there's one thing I want people to take away, it would be that the best way to increase your own sense of meaningful work is to help other people create more meaning, other people create more meaning in theirs. Excellent. Well, again, one more time, the book is Meaningful Work, How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee, available at fine bookstores everywhere. Pick up a copy for you and for a friend. Anybody can buy just one, buy two. Thank you so much for being guests, you guys. You're both wonderful. We hope you sell a million. Thanks so much. Thank you. Wonderful. We hope you sell a million. Thanks so much. R. Chess, you know, another really insightful, we have such, you know, smart, insightful guests. And there may be, you know, not telling us anything we haven't thought about, but different ways and really creative ways to think about this that, you know, what is meaningful work? It's work that gives us more than a paycheck, a good way to start. Yeah, community contribution and challenge. I love the way they simplified it. I'm a big fan of the rule of three. You know, you can remember three things, the three steeds. Makes a lot of sense. I was really struck by the foundation. You know, if your leader cares, you'll care. You know, ask them about their life after work. I thought that was such a great question. Does your leader care about your life after work? They know the name of your kids, maybe your hobbies, your passions, you know, those kinds of things. And notice, take time to notice and reflect on that. You know, it's one thing to say, okay, I do know their kids' names. It's another thing to say, by the way, you mentioned your son was in the lacrosse tournament. How did that go? Simple little meaningful moments, I think, is what Tamara said at the end, you know, that meaning is all about little moments that matter during the day. It doesn't have to be a big thing, just little moments that tell people, you know, that you care. Yeah. I remember when we, we did quite a bit of work with Michigan medicine, which is the university of Michigan's medicine team. And, and I remember they did a big survey and it was interesting. They found meaning in the most interesting places. Like there was the janitor in the chemo ward and, and this person had, you know, was, was just beloved, you know, through the charts engagement. And she was saying, she says, my job is a healer. Even though she was cleaning up, she says, I clean up after chemotherapy. Sometimes people get sick. She says, I make it comfortable for them. Oh, everybody does this. It's all good. She says, I just let them know it's OK to heal. And yeah, but we can create meaning. No, it's not just a terrible, uh, a key job. I'm actually making a difference here. That's what great leaders do is help people understand those little moments instead of the whole thing. You know, cause you know, you and I have gone into work for some companies where you kind of go, geez, this is a tough one to sell. You know, you're making industrial drains, you do it and the satisfaction that you're bringing to your team members, being there for each other. There are ways to bring meaning. Yeah. I think one of our favorite companies where you'd think, how do you create meaning is WD-40. I mean, it's grease in a can. It doesn't get any more basic than that. And yet they've developed this fabulous culture around making things work smoothly and making life a little better. And I always say, look, if you can do it with grease in a can, you know, you can do it with anything. I was really struck right at the very beginning of the conversation where you asked a great question to find meaning. People think, well, I have to work for a nonprofit. I have to be, you know, supporting refugees or disaster victims or whatever. And he said, you know, your work that pays you, it doesn't have to be your life's calling. You can find meaning, like you said, in cleaning up in a hospital. In those small ways, we spend so much time at work. If you can find those little meaningful moments along the way, it just makes everything better. So yeah, no, I'm with you. Such smart and engaged people. Are we lucky to spend time with them, right? You know, there's somebody who brings meaning to my life though, everyday, Chas. Do you have any idea who that might be? I don't know who it is for you, but for me, it's been client. That's exactly who I was gonna say. Yeah, I followed the Dalai Lama mother Teresa and Brent Kline That's those are my three He does though I mean listen we joke all the time But Brent takes our podcast and really dresses him up and does a great job We we really are grateful for our relationship and friendship with job Well done job Well done and to Christy Lawrence who helps us find cool and amazing guests and to all of you who listened in we appreciate you. If you like the podcast share it, download it, you know, send it to friends. We'd also love you to visit thecultureworks.com where you can get some free resources to help you and your team culture thrive. And we love speaking to audiences all around the world, whether it's in person or virtual, we speak on the topics of culture, teamwork, resilience. Give us a call, we'd love to talk to you about your coming event. And with all that said, Adrian, always fun to spend time with you. I give you the last word. Hey, it's fun too to be able to josh and learn with you. And thanks everybody for joining us today. Until next time, we wish you the best of mental health. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪