Transform Your Work Relationships by Active Listening

These days, with everyone multitasking and constantly plugged in, real connection can feel rare. But what if the key to resilience and healthy relationships wasn't about talking more, but listening better? 

In a world filled with noise, distraction, and division, could the simple act of truly listening be the key to deeper connection, better mental health, and greater understanding—even across opposing viewpoints? In this powerful and timely episode, Chester and Adrian are joined by journalist and workplace mediator Emily Kasriel, whose upcoming book, Deep Listening, explores how we can transform our relationships by listening not just to others—but also to ourselves.

Emily shares her 8-step method rooted in science and real-world examples—from Nelson Mandela’s reconciliation efforts to Indigenous listening rituals—showing how active listening can ease anxiety, bridge divides, and foster psychological safety at work and at home.

What You'll Learn:

• Why deep listening is a radical act in today’s distracted world
• How leaders can balance empathy and efficiency in the workplace
• The surprising benefits of listening to your "foes"
• How self-reflection and curiosity make you a better listener
• Why listening ≠ agreement—and how to hold boundaries while staying present
• A real-world story from Latvia that illustrates deep listening's power in divided communities

Notable Quotes:

“We rarely listen to understand. We listen to respond.” – Emily Kasriel
 “Listening does not signal agreement. It signals respect.” – Emily Kasriel
 “Being curious is the gateway to empathy and connection.” – Adrian Gostick

Transcript

These days, with everyone multitasking and constantly plugged in, real connection can feel rare. But what if the key to resilience and healthy relationships wasn't about talking more, but listening better? Hi, I'm Chester Elton and with me is my dear friend and co-author, Adrian Gostick. Well, thanks, Chess. You know, when life feels overwhelming, being truly heard can be a really powerful antidote. So how do we do this in a distracted and often divided world? How do we become better listeners? That's what we're going to talk about today. Our guest today is going to bring all this back into focus as listening. Sorry, let me do that again, Brett. Our guest today is going to bring listening back into focus as a transformational force. As always, we hope the time you spend with us will help reduce the stigma of anxiety at work and in the rest of your lives. And with us is our new friend, Emily Casriel, a BBC journalist and workplace mediator who has spent decades helping people bridge divides and find deeper understanding. She developed her approach as a senior visiting research fellow at King's College London. And her work has taken her from boardrooms to conflict zones. Her new book is Deep Listening, Transform Your Relationships with Family, Friends and Foes, and is out June 24th. In the book, she shares an eight-step method backed by science and grounded in real-life stories from Nelson Mandela's conflict, resolution, to Indigenous listening rituals. This is going to be a really great conversation. Emily, we are delighted to have you on our podcast. Thanks for finding the time. Thank you so much. I'm really delighted to be here. And I should say that I did spend decades at the BBC, but I'm no longer with the BBC. I love that ethical journalistic integrity to tell us that as well. I love that. Hey, and I had a chance, and Emily is joining us today from London, as you can, might be able to tell from her wonderful BBC accent. I had a chance to start the book already, but I've only gotten a few pages, but it's already hooking me. And you say in the book that today's world of, you know, noise and distraction, that listening is what you call a radical act. That's an interesting idea. So, unpack that for us, what that means and why listening is so important to us right now. Well, I think that often when we listen, we listen performatively. We go through the motions. We listen long enough to preload our verbal gun with ammunition, ready to fire, to share our own brilliant ideas, or ask that incisive question. We rarely really listen because we're curious to understand. We rarely listen and appreciate that we don't really know what's going on with somebody in somebody else's head. I mean, from when I was a BBC journalist, we used to say the best places to get vox pops, to hear what people said, to have people who could formulate, ready formulated brilliant little soundbites was in Nigeria and the USA. But actually, even these soundbites, we often think that even in these soundbites, people are really speaking at the surface of themselves. They're speaking, they're not really thinking, they're reciting what's expected of them. Deep listening is an invitation to people to really reflect more and to think about what they really mean. Through an iterative process, the speaker comes to understand themselves more fully, the listener comes to understand them, and they understand themselves more fully. The listener comes to understand them. And they both feel more connected. And we all know that having more, and we all know that having deeper connections is really a very important part of our happiness long-term. That's what the Harvard Long-Term Study indicated. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. We love that study, by the way. Yeah, and we had Bob Waldinger on a few months ago. We did, yeah, The Good Life. Let me ask you, though, you say deep listening. You're a journalist and you're on the BBC. My dad ran radio stations. You talk about this deep listening. Does that create a lot of dead air? In radio and whatnot, dead air was the anthem. You did everything to keep lot of dead air? You know, in radio and whatnot, dead air was, you know, the anthem. You know, you did everything to keep from having dead air. So when you talk about deep listening, aren't you worried that as you're being more pensive and you're listening deeper, you're going to lose the train of thought, you're going to lose the conversation? I did have a philosopher friend of mine who was very concerned that we used to de-um interviews to make sure people just sounded super fluent and there'd be no space for that reflection. But I'm not talking about live interviews on air. The deep listening is more an approach that we can use in the workplace and at home and even in our neighborhoods to have more profound conversations when it really matters. Excellent. You know, you say something in your book here that, well, in your subtitle, it says includes listening to foes. I think that's one of the toughest things to do. Couldn't have stopped us in our tracks on that one because it feels in such a divisive world that we live in right now, it seems almost impossible in this polarized world to say, yeah, I'm going to deep listen to somebody that I deeply disagree with, you know. So how do you do that? How do you begin listening to a foe without losing yourself? You're quite right, Chester. It is bloody hard, as we say in the UK, to really openly listen to somebody we disagree with fiercely. It takes a lot of courage, but it can be really transformative. And it means, I think in order to do this, we have to take a step back and listen to ourselves first. Because often when we really disagree with somebody, it's not about them, it's often about us. It's about our hidden shadows that we project upon the other person. All the stuff that we don't really accept or like about ourselves, the things that we then see the other as being the most vile and the most objectionable. But when we realise that we're not actually, when we realise it's not actually the stuff about them but about us, that allows us to be more open. We need to accept ourselves in order to be in a place to listen to somebody else that we really disagree with. The good news, it can be really transformative. So it's been extensive research, which shows that when people are truly listened to, they reduce what's called their attitude extremity, which means they feel less forceful. They feel what they do feel is less extreme. And then they're more in a place to be able to listen to you. And in fact, I did a big project a couple of years ago with the BBC and the British Council. And there, we recruited 1,000 people in over 100 countries. Biggest countries, the countries who were the most represented were Malaysia, UK, New Zealand and Iran. A very very disparate group of people. A friend of mine runs the BBC Persian service and helped me recruit the Iranians via telegram. And when we got these people together they practiced listening over three weeks, two hours a week, virtually I should say. And for the final conversation they had to find something that they really disagreed with, with their speaking partner. And practice deep listening might have been, is social media good for humanity? Or everybody should be a vegetarian. These were contentious topics about which they really disagreed. And when I reached out to some academics in order to really see if deep listening could make a difference, they found that when people practiced deep listening, people felt safer, more able to express themselves, and genuinely understood. And they gained insights about themselves and an openness to re-examine their own attitudes. And to me, that's truly inspiring. Yeah. Well, let's bring this to the workplace now. You know, the podcast is Anxiety at Work. And so a lot of people listening are leaders. They're saying, look, you know, I'd love to be able to listen more. My people will come in and talk my ear off for three hours if I let them. I'm short on time, maybe even a little patience. So how do you create more of a listening culture without becoming so empathetic that you just don't get anything done? How do you balance that? It is a question of balance, Adrian. You're quite right. It's about setting boundaries and say, I really wanna listen to you. I've got 20 minutes. I really wanna understand what you think right now. And it's about, and it's not just about time. It's about the attention that we give somebody in that time. I mean, I don't know, Chester, if you've ever been on a Zoom call and as you're talking, you've got your phone and you're secretly checking your emails and your instant messages below the screen. Have you ever done that? I would never do that. Well, I certainly have done that. Well, actually, let me say it. I would never admit to doing that. Well, I admit to doing that because I am human and I mess up like everybody and certainly as my family would say, like, Mom, you're supposed to be good at listening. Yeah. And so we all get distracted. But when we do give somebody our full attention, they feel it. They feel it in every pore of their body. And it can make them feel more relaxed, more open, feel psychologically safer and more able to share the things that are really important. That is so interesting. I love your idea of boundaries. Give people a heads up, got 20 minutes, make it count. So I'm sure you've got some great stories. In fact, we know you've got some great stories because they're in the book. But one that was really interesting was the experience you had in Latvia. You were working across all these deep political divides and you talked about that deep listening there that helped build bridges. Do you want to share that story with us? So it was just, I think, about 10 months after the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine. And Latvia's got quite a big Russian-speaking population. And some Latvians see these Russian speakers as being a fifth column. And there's a sense because Latvia borders Russia, that Russia may also invade them. So tensions are running and were running and are still running pretty high inside the country. So I was working with the British council and we got people to come together both in the capital and also in a smaller town, not so far from the Russian border and we brought together Latvian speakers as well as Russian speakers and I trained them before I visited several times virtually and then in person and I trained them in deep listening and then we got them to have these difficult conversations but because they were equipped with the eight stage process they were able to be, they were able to be open, they were able to understand, and this is really critical, that listening does not signal agreement and therefore they felt the permission to listen to ideas, even if they found them very challenging, to try to understand them. And one really good question to ask in that situation is, tell me about the life experience that you've had that's led you to these ideas. Because once we understand why somebody has adopted ideas, once we have got a handle a bit more into their own life, we start to see them as a human being, not just as a label or ideology. And I think that's really critical. Yeah, I heard that recently, somebody threw out a wacky, to me, theory, and the other person said, I've never heard that theory before, tell me more. You know, it was the idea, when really they were going, boing! You know, this is, yeah. But it was very kind and very accepting. And so, okay, so, but first off, tell us, Emily, we're about halfway through. Tell us where people can learn more about your work. Obviously, they want to pick up the book, Deep Listening, but do you have a website or something where you'd send people? So it's great. It would be fantastic if they would read the book because I really want people to read the book so they listen to people around them. Because I think there's so much loneliness going on at work and in society and in communities. And if more people could deeply listen to those around them, it could make a real dent. And the other big challenge that I really care about is polarisation. We know that there's a lot of fear of the other. And we also know that there's the perils of perception. We have whole ideas about the other political group or other people. And if we can listen to them, we can help correct this and deal with it. So please read the book and please practice deep listening. I'd be incredibly grateful. You can also find more about me by following me on LinkedIn and going to my website where there's other articles on deep listening. And that's Emily casriel.com. So let's now bring this to the family because that's where I was sort of going next was this idea that, look, you go into a family member, they're watching something on TV that you don't agree with. Can we turn that off? Immediately you can start feeling tensions with families nowadays, and it's something that's ripping families apart. So, you know, we've always had differences, parents to grandparents to kids, and, you know, I don't understand that new generation, but I think this is a little bit even different. So what can families do now to listen to each other more, maybe effectively? Well, it was interesting because a friend of mine who's a parent said, yeah, I'm really interested in listening. Why can't our son listen to me more? And what he really meant was, why can't our son obey me? And that's what actually when people say listening, they mean obeying. But in fact, I think it's super important for parents to listen to their kids. Because so often when kids come and tell us about a problem So for example, my daughter when she was at school might say to me I've had a really tough, you know an awful day and the teacher just picked on me and I'd say I'm sure it's not that bad I'm sure the teacher was picking on other kids too and a good parts of your day I thought my role was to cheer her up and to show her the bigger picture. And of course she didn't feel hurt, she just left feeling more annoyed. When I learnt to say, sounds like you had a pretty rough day, huh? Or must be hard that feeling that you have that your teacher picked on you. Notice at no point did I say that I agree that the teacher picked on her. I'm just allowing her to have a right to have these feelings. And when you do that, you'll suddenly find that kids will often say, yeah, it was awful. And then you probe a bit deeper. Awful? That's a strong word. Tell me more about that. And then they'll say, yeah, it felt really rubbish. But actually, I had fun because in the afternoon I did art and it was lovely doing pictures. Of their own accord they can then come and see the bigger picture and of course because they feel more heard they're gonna be in a much better place to be able to see that bigger picture without you necessarily pointing it out and you might do if they're younger but first try and listen to them and what's critical it's not just the words you also really need to listen to their feelings because if they haven't been acknowledged, they will not feel heard, guaranteed. That is so interesting. We do have that trigger, don't we? Yes, deep listening. You should be deep listening to me more. You know, you go into your book, and Adrienne and I talk about this quite a bit, about your own self-talk, and what goes on in between your ears, and you talk about listening to yourself. Why is that the starting point for all the rest? I think it's because unless you've listened to yourself, you're really in no place to listen to someone else. And we're talking about these important conversations. And listening to yourself really allows you to surface those shadows, those unacceptable parts of yourself, which often rise up, particularly when you're trying to listen to somebody you disagree with. And I think often, if I know I'm gonna have a conversation with somebody that's upset me, is I'll go for a walk. Work in nature can work super well. We know about all that evidence even better if you could see some water, because that really helps calm the rumination in our mind and allows us to see a bigger picture. Sometimes you might even want to give a voice who feels angry and you sense that. Give that part of you a voice and say, what's going on here? Why are you feeling so angry? And then, while hopefully nobody can hear you, let that voice speak. See what it has to say. Find out what's really going on in your psyche. And I should say, this is tough stuff. If you face trauma or have had depression or in some difficulties, you should seek professional help. But it can be useful to be able to do to yourself if it's not something deeply traumatic, but something you're finding challenging and all sorts of things can surface. Some people like to journal, some people like to draw pictures. There's all sorts of ways that can help you understand more what's going in for yourself, so you're better in a place to be open to others and provide that wonderful, spacious place of possibility. Lovely. Yeah, Chester talks to himself on the subway, but I don't know if that's the same type of thing or not. It is, and by the way, when I do that, I get a lot of extra space. I mean, people are constantly moving away, which is not a bad thing in a crowded subway. Hey, we're always interested. I mean, you're a busy person, Emily, you know, you've got so much going on and now this new book. Tell us about your self-care tactics, how you keep yourself mentally grounded and thriving with all that you have going on. Well, I like to do some meditation. And in fact, there's a meditation in my book, I've got a whole chapter about how to be present. And on my website, I've recorded and have some meditations there. But there's so many people and so many apps available for people who want to become present. And I've personally been on silent retreats and find that grounding that sense of a greater whole, which is not distracted, which is not upset, which exists and if you're able for a moment to let go of the distractions in your mind and tune in to that bigger sense of space, all sorts of things become possible and I find that really useful. I also like going for, in London I'm really lucky I live not far from Hampstead Heath and they have these cold water ponds. So I try even through winter, every couple of times a week to go for a swim amongst the ducks and the leaves. And that is truly restorative. It does get pretty chilly. The coldest I've been is one and a half degrees where some people at the swimming club, not me, break the ice and you go for a quick dip. So that just kind of gives you a zap and cleans your brain out. Whatever's going on in your mind, I find that truly wonderful. Yeah, we're both Canadian and we don't do that. That's no good for you. That's hilarious. Well, that's wonderful. Hey, her book is, Deep Listening, Transform Your Relationships with Family, Friends and Foes. Get a copy and buy a copy for a friend that you want to have deep listening to you. But Emily, if there were one or two things you wanted people to take away from our conversation today, what would they be? I think it's about being curious. Being curious is like a gateway because if you're curious about somebody else, if you acknowledge that you don't already know, that can lead you to empathy, to respect, and an awareness of your own judgments. And then all sorts of things become possible. And that feels truly exciting. Excellent. Listen, it's been a delight to have you on the podcast. We hope you sell a million copies and look her up on LinkedIn and Emily, is it Emily at Kazriel.com? What was your website? EmilyKazriel.com. Perfect. Thanks so much, Emily. Thank you. It's been a real pleasure to talk to you guys, Chester and Adrian. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, Chester, this is such a powerful concept of listening. We all, like you were saying, we want people to listen to us, but we really don't want to listen to anybody else. So how curious are we as leaders, as family members? That's the gateway, gateway she says to understanding. Sorry, what did you say? I knew you were gonna do that. I wasn't listening. I picked up on that too. Isn't it interesting how so much comes back to being curious? Yeah. You know, good leaders are curious, creative people are curious, you know, and they ask questions. And that idea of deep listening where one thing she said that I loved is that silence doesn't mean agreement. So when you're pausing, it doesn't mean you're agreeing with somebody. You're just digesting what it is they're saying. And then, you know, when she talked about listening to yourself, she said something, she said, when you listen to yourself and go for a walk, and if you're in the woods or near water, it surfaces the shadows. Interesting way to explain that a few times shadows. Yeah, surfacing the shadows that maybe you haven't been listening to that you, you need to give a little voice to. And once you can really listen to yourself, you're better equipped, was the word she used, to listen to other people. That was deeply meaningful to me. It was, yeah. Give that part of you a voice, I wrote down, those shadows that may be a little uncomfortable to think about. You know, I don't like talking. You know, I might be insecure. I might be, you know, there may be something in my past that I haven't overcome. There's something that that's my shadow that says I need this or that. Give that part of you a voice. I thought that was really powerful. And so and I want to come back to this idea that you mentioned, listening does not signal agreement. Because some people it does, you know, you listen to them and, and they, they think you're agreeing because you're not sort of opposing. And so I was kind of wondering, you know, okay, what point do I, do think there's any basis in fact, but I don't do that. I just kind of say, okay, thanks for sharing that with me, but I don't really push back. And I don't know if there's a point where you do or not. Yeah. After that long pause, have you hit your head? The point about listening to your foes I thought was fascinating. You know, first study in Latvia, the Latvian speakers, the Russian speakers, and it was over three weeks, two hours a week, and then find something you, you know, adamantly disagree on and talk it through. What fascinating work, right? It is hard to listen to your foes. You know, we're constantly, as they're talking, we're thinking about that exact, you know, dagger that we'll pull out, that rebuttal that will make them all of a sudden say, you're right, I'm wrong, you're smart, I'm an idiot. And of course that never happens, right? No, never. Never happens. Listening to your foes, I thought, yeah, that takes practice. It really does, to take the emotion out, to say, and then she did say, well, tell me about your life experience that led you to that opinion. So much of where we get to is our life experience, our family experience, our friendships, our workplace experience. Yeah, really good stuff. There is, yeah. And I've seen, you know, there's some sort of politicians, some newscasters who are very good at this, but also don't back down. But they're very kind, they're very respectful. And they say, let me offer you another way to think about this. And I think that's the way we should be. You can listen, but again, as she's saying, don't just listen ready to rebut, but listen with an open heart and open mind. I think that's really powerful. You know, one of the best listeners I know, Chess, is our producer, Brent Klein. Would you agree? Yeah, it's like through the whole podcast, you can just hear him hiss, listening in the background. Yeah, no, we love Brent. You know, he takes the mission, gosh, we've got a lot of editing on this one. You know, we made a couple of false starts and so on. He does. He takes the mess and makes it a masterpiece. And we want to thank Christy Lawrence, who helps us find amazing guests and all of you who listened in. We want to thank you. If you like the podcastultureworks.com. We've got a bunch of free resources to help you and your team culture thrive. And finally, of course, pick up a copy of Anxiety at Work, our bestselling book. Yeah, available on Audible. It's available on video books, anywhere fine books are sold. And, you know, we love speaking to audiences around the world, whether it's virtual or it's a person on the topics of culture, teamwork, resilience, give us a call, we'd love to speak at your event. We would. And thanks everybody for joining us. Until next time, we wish you the best of mental health. ♪♪