How Lenny Wilson Turns Plants Into Botanical Shoe Sculptures

What happens when traditional shoemaking meets leaves, bark, vines and flowers?

Lenny Wilson is an artist and horticulturist known for creating intricate, life-size botanical shoes from natural materials. After studying shoemaking at a leather-trades college in London and building a career in public horticulture, he found a way to bring his two worlds together through art.

In this episode, Lenny shares how an early experiment with plants and traditional shoemaking techniques grew into his distinctive botanical sculptures. He explains how he chooses and gathers materials, from patterned leaves and seed heads to branches and bark, and how the character of each plant shapes the final design. Lexy and Lenny also talk about the temporary nature of his work, why something does not need to last forever to have value and what fashion can learn from paying closer attention to the natural world.

Listen to hear how Lenny is turning horticulture into wearable-looking art and challenging the way we think about shoes, materials and beauty.

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If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe to The Lexy Show, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who's ready to make more mindful choices for themselves and the planet. For more information visit https://lexysilverstein.com/

Transcript

 📍 📍 That was me, age seven. I thought fashion was magic. Turns out it's a lot more complicated than that. I had a blog at seven talking about clothes. Back then, I didn't know about greenwashing or fast fashion or what it actually costs to make a $5 shirt, and now I do, and I'm trying to do better. So welcome to The Lexi Show: Fashion That Gives A Damn. I'm Lexi Silverstein, and this show is for anyone who loves fashion and is done pretending the industry is fine. Every week, we go deeper so you can shop smarter, spend better, and stop getting played. Now, let's get back to today's guest. 📍 Today I'm talking with Lenny Wilson, a botanical shoe artist. Lenny, welcome.  Well, for anyone just discovering you, how would you describe your work to someone who has never heard of it? You know, I tell them that I'm a botanical shoe artist, and they'll say, " what does that mean?" So I have to describe the fact that I actually make a pair of shoes on shoe lasts. And, um, I create these, These pairs of shoes, 'cause I work in pairs, and,, I use plant material in the fabrication and, um, I also hand-stitch them down and remind people they can't wear them. Mm-hmm. So, um... But I use leaves and I use twigs pine cones or cones from magnolia trees. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I just use all those and put them together a- and make a pair of shoes. So, and they look like they're wearable, and people love to pick them up. They're very tactile. Like, "What size are these?" Oh, beautiful. So when they're on exhibit at different places I like to make sure that people can't, pick them up or touch them, 'cause they are works of art. Yeah. No, truly. They're so cool. Where did the idea come from, and how did you get from the idea to making this, this shoe become a real thing? Yeah, that's a good question. I get that question often. I took myself to London, England, and went to enrolled in , a technical college called Cordwainers Technical College, uh, to learn how to make shoes. Now, it's a leather trades college s- specializing in handbags, footwear, and saddlery, and I was in the footwear design and fabrication program. So while I was there, um, I apprenticed with a student who had graduated from the college who opened up his own store. At that time, I learned other techniques and styles that they don't teach you in school, and I apprenticed with John Moore for roughly about five months and, um, then came back to the States. So while I was back in the States I applied for several jobs in the footwear industry. And I found out that in America, the shoe footwear industry moved to Europe or South America, and I was told, "Just take your ass back to England or take your ass to Europe and study there, , working in a factory." Instead of doing that, I ended up working in horticulture. Mm. And I had a a friend who introduced me to a landscape architect, and I worked on estate gardens, and I thought, "This is a lot of fun." So my, kind of fell silent. I did interview with Rockport shoes and Red Wing Shoes, which really aren't the type of shoes that I make. And, um, so horticulture kind of took over my life and my career. And while I was working at an arboretum called Swarthmore College, and the campus is an arboretum there was a notice for a staff and faculty a- art show. And I thought, "Well, let me see if I can make something, a pair of shoes." Yeah. So the ginkgo leaf falls off the tree in the fall and they all fall down at one time. So there's a carpet of yellow, and the leaves have a nice leathery texture to them. And I used the leaves to make a pair of shoes. First time ever. Didn't know what they were gonna come out like, and they ended up being the centerpiece of the art show. People were ga- I couldn't figure out what people were looking at- But they were gathered around my shoes. And, uh- Oh my gosh. Yeah, so, um, and it was just a whim. I kind of, like, did it and it was fine. Then I was asked to make more pairs. , There was a local gallery that had them on exhibit, and a an art person wanted to curate a show using my shoes. So she borrowed my shoes and ended up selling a couple pair. And then I got asked to make more shoes using plant material. So here I am, I kinda felt like I ended up marrying the two interests, horticulture as well as shoemaking. And, um, and it's united in the shoes, that's so cool. That was back in the 90 when that happened. I love that. That's such, like, a pinch me moment. You're like, "What's everyone staring at?" And it's your work. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, recently I took a couple pairs of my shoes over to a friend's house. It was almost like a small high school reunion, and the response that I got from them was super encouraging. Uh, they were like, "Whatever the spirit is that these shoes exude, you need to capture that." Oh, I believe it. So anyway, it's pretty cool. Yeah. That's so cool. Yes, I saw many a picture of them and I was like, "Oh, I need this guy on my podcast." So when you're- Nice ... making the shoes now what's kind of the process? Do you find the leaves first? Do you make them with other things now and then do you create them into a shoe, or do you kind of have the idea of what you want the shoe to look like and then you go and kind of forage for the pieces? Yeah, so what I've been doing is actually working directly with botanic gardens. So, um, they allow me to come onto their site and collect material that I'll use for shoes that are displayed there. Okay. Um, but, you know, the process is I start with the pattern. I use leather in the construction, but I'll use a, look at a shoe last and basically create the design or the pattern on the shoe last, and then take it out, cut the pattern out of leather, and sti- hand stitch it together and pull it over the shoe last. So while it's sitting there on the shoe last, it's naked. Mm-hmm. There's nothing covering it. And, um, so then I'll look for leaves that I think will be suitable for it, and- My selection of leaves are different, but there's some favorites that I really like to use. Usually the larger the leaf is easier to manipulate. However, I've used southern magnolia leaves, and if, if you're familiar with southern magnolia, it has a very rubbery leaf, almost impossible to actually make a shoe from. But I learned to dissect the leaf along the stem, and it kinda has a natural curve that goes right along the shape of a foot. So it was kind of experimental, but the way it worked was pretty cool, and I was very satisfied with it, love it. So and I look at, not necessarily foraging, but I go into the woods and- Mm-hmm ... take walks and get inspired by a lot of different things. Um- Mm-hmm ... it could be ivy that's growing up a tree that's kind of pulling the bark away, and I see kind of a texture or something. How can I utilize that in a pair of shoes? Mm-hmm. Or I'll go to a garden, and I'll see some really nice plants. I'm like, "I wonder if that stem might work along the top line of a shoe." So I'm always botanizing and looking at plant material. And so when you pick up a leaf and what makes you decide, like, okay, this is the one versus a different? Is it, like, the color the size like you were mentioning, like, the texture, things like that? Yeah, it could be, like, the pattern on the leaf. It might be variegated, or it might have certain edges on it. What I've learned to do is as I apply the leaf to the shoe I usually turn it upside down, so the top of the leaf is touching the leather. So what you're looking at is the bottom side of the leaf so bottom side of the leaf has intricate patterns on it that are very stimulating to me, and I like to kind of present that when I'm making the shoes. So- ... If it has an interesting underside of the leaf sweetbay magnolia is an example. Top of the leaf is green. It's flat, and that is the side that touches the leather. The underneath is white. And for using a leaf that doesn't turn brown, uh, it remains white, and it's, uh, it's a wonderful material to use. That's so cool. I'm so obsessed. This is so creative. It's such a great way of showing, like, truly how, You can do anything creatively. Like you, you can- Mm-hmm ... find inspiration in anything. I love it. Right. If you're out in nature or for anyone who's, like, never really, foraged is the word I'm, I can, I feel most fits here. What are, like, the unwritten rules that you follow to make sure you're taking from nature responsibly? If I take anything from nature, um, I'm usually picking it up off the ground. Mm-hmm. If I have to prune some branches or some leaves, you know, I do it respectfully- Mm-hmm ... for that plant. Now, uh, when I've worked in botanic gardens, I get approval from the people that work there. I'm allowed to go on site my most recent experience is pretty funny because I was... There was a creek that runs through this botanic garden, and I had to jump over the creek, get on this stone wall and felt like a goat, but I got over there. And there's bark that is peeling off a tree, and I thought, " I'm gonna get that. That's-" Mm ... "really cool." So I climb up out of the creek, and I'm stepping over, and here comes a tour l- led by the executive director, and, , he has staff with him, and volunteers, and interns, and they're learning, like, history of the garden as well as about plants. And there I am in the background pulling the, bark off a tree. But I got approval, so it was cool. That's funny. You're like, if their tour's like, "And here's this. On the right you'll see Lenny." Oh. Oh, by the way. He has approval to do that. No one stress out. Anybody taking stuff out of nature, I think it's totally fine, but just be respectful of nature and maybe give something back. Hey, do me a favor right now. Look down. Are you subscribed to the show? If you are, thank you, genuinely, and if you aren't, please do it right now. It keeps this content free and helps one more person see through fast fashion's BS, and frankly, they deserve to know. 📍 Yeah. Yeah. So. Completely. Well, if someone is watching this and wanted to try their hand at botanical shoes, where would you tell them to start? I would say, you know, they would have to go and learn how to make shoes- Yeah ... if they want to do botanical shoes. Kind of important. Um, I know there is a, a space up in Brooklyn, New York called Shoe. And they have instructors, and you can probably learn pattern making. I have no idea how much it costs or what it's like. The technical college that I went to is still there. Uh, it was absorbed by the London College of Fashion- Mm ... uh, back in I think like 2000. And, um, so now the shoe program is in the London College of Fashion. Mm-hmm. So and you could, you know, enroll there for a year or maybe three years, which is the full program. Mm. There's also a, I would say like a florist designer. Her name Francoise Weeks. And she collects stuff out of nature, and she weaves things, and very creative in expression using all different types of plants. And I think that she has done botanical shoes. They're not life forms like mine, but they're very fantastical and creative. Yeah, that's so cool. Anyone listening, you know where to start now. Um, the fashion industry is one of the least sustainable industries on the planet, and this is where- Mm ... I really focus on sustainability and fashion. And it doesn't exactly reward people who kind of push back against it. Actually, there's a thing going on right now where a sustainable drag queen is getting sued by Patagonia 'cause her drag name is Patty Gonia, and it's like this big thing in the sustainability world. So she's getting pushed back upon, and she's great in the industry. So how do you kind of navigate creating work that is rooted in the Earth inside a system that of- often works against it, and do you have any advice for young designers who want to work sustainably? I kinda feel that the I'm making shoes, I need to practice to better my skills. And also by using plant material, it's a way that I get free plant ma- free material to use with my shoes. If I was, if I had leather it would be twice the price of, expenses purchasing it. But eventually I would like to see my shoes to be wearable. Mm-hmm. Uh, even though they're non-wearable now, and various reasons for that. But once, you know, a plant leaf dries, soon as it expands or you walk on it, it'll just break apart. But if there was a way for me to segment the different parts of a shoe that, and, creating, like, plates that don't bend- ... I can start make it wearable, you let me know once those are wearable. I'm getting my hands on them. I don't think anybody has worn my shoes. Well, I know somebody did, 'cause they broke them. Oh, no. Um, but I made a, I made a pair of moss shoes, slippers really, and, um, they were mules. Very pointy toe, and I used a twine to wrap around the moss, and, uh, it was kind of like an elf in a forest. And, uh, the owner put them on her shoe and took a picture and sent it to me. That, yeah, I think ... what a statement. Like, they're a statement in general, and then if I can wear them out on, like Earth Day- Oh, yeah ... people will be turning heads. I will be turning heads. I ... how, yeah, like do you think that ... So is that kind of maybe what's next for you in terms of f- like the shoes is finding a way to make them wearable? Yeah, I think that's one direction that I would go in. Also is, you know, to keep making them. I kind of had you know, dreams of being able to travel and visit other botanic gardens- Mm-hmm ... um, around the world. And so one, you know, I would go and visit, and I would make a pair of shoes that would be representation of that botanic garden- Mm-hmm from the plants growing there. And there's an educational aspect to it. Yeah. So it helped to teach the public about the plants that the botanic garden is growing. So if I can kinda get a little hitch into that type of thing I would certainly pursue that. I am looking to expand a little bit out of the Philadelphia market, which I'm currently in, and, um, get up into New York. Mm-hmm. So I've talked to a couple of people up there affiliated with botanic gardens and, um, Christie's Auction House. Mm. So So we'll see where, we'll see where it goes. My experience when I was living in E- England and going to shoe college I was working for a fashion company there. Their name was Body Map. And, uh, I was their clothing rep in New York when I lived there, and that's how I got connected with them. So when I was in England attending shoe college, I was working for one of the designer's mother on on the weekends at a little, um, store called Body Shop. I got introduced to all these different fashion people while I was there, and the company that I apprenticed with is legendary. It was called The House of Beauty and Culture. Mm. And it was a conglomerate of different designers that repurposed clothing, fabric furniture, and made it into their own creations. So, um, that was also inspiring, and I think I picked up a little bit from that. Yeah. That's so cool. I think if you're ever in California- There's a place called The Huntington Botanical Gardens. They're very pretty. I feel like- Oh, Huntington. Yeah, I've heard of that ... they would be in- totally, I feel like, down to do that. I feel like that's such a cool... my social media mind is like, "That would be a good social series where you go to a botanical garden, then you make the shoe, and then and then you, like, do a little voiceover talking about your experience at the botanical garden." Like, that, that is so something I'd be really interested in seeing, and I think that there... I mean, all around the world I'm sure there are way better and cooler ones than the Huntington one. But the Huntington one's very pretty, in my personal opinion. But I'm biased, 'cause I live here. Yeah, that's right. It's good. Your work literally comes from Earth, so has spending all of this time with your hands in nature kind of changed the way that you see the world around you? Absolutely. I think it's kind of a natural fit for me. I never really knew it when I was in high school or going to college because you get a degree and you go out in the world and you get a job. Mm-hmm. But soon as I experienced working outdoors, I just thought, "This is me. I... You know, this is something I really enjoy, and this is what I wanna pursue- Mm ... and I wanna do." Wouldn't trade it for anything. Yeah. I need to spend more time outside. Everybody does. Everybody does. Yes. Everybody does. I spend s- I work from home, so I spend so much time looking at this damn computer, and I am looking outside my window right now and I'm like, "It looks like a really nice day. Good thing I haven't stepped outside once." Oh, no. I'll go on a walk after this. It'll encourage me. But yeah, I think we, we have a saying, again, on social media, us, us Gen Z-ers have a saying where it's like, "Go touch grass," and it's like, it's like when you're freaking out about something that doesn't need to be... that's not that big of a deal, we'll be like, "I need to go touch grass." It genuinely works. Like, going outside and getting some fresh air and being with nature. Every time I'm out in nature, I'm like, "I need to spend more time out in nature." It is so relaxing. Yeah, that reminds me of, um, one of my clients who had purchased several pairs of shoes, had a very high stressful job- Mm ... in New York City. I think she was in fundraising. She told me that the shoes that she had of mine she keeps in a cabinet in her office, and every once in a while she'll bring out a pair of the shoes and set them on her desk while she's working or doing phone calls because it really takes her mind away- Mm-hmm from the stress. And it kind of has imaginary sensibility to it. Mm-hmm. So I kind of, you know, say the shoes even though they're not worn they morph into something that looks like they've been worn, and who would wear a pair of shoes like that? And it's just your mind just keeps going and going. So I thought that was a really nice compliment. Yeah, that is so nice. I think that, I mean, it's so, it, they're such cool, unique pieces. Like, looking at them... Every time I have a conversation on my podcast, I'm always, like, inspired by the end of it. I'm like, "This person's so cool." Mm-hmm. And I talk to so many different people. Like, they're all doing different things in nature for one reason or another, and I'm like I know if... This was the one thing my, I always mention this in, like, every single episode, but my brother bought me a plant because he has been really big into plants lately, and he was like it's nice having, like, this living thing in your apartment that you take care of." I am notoriously really bad at taking care of plants because I'm overbearing. Like, I'm like, "Oh my God, they need water," and then I water them too much, and then all of a sudden they're dead. So he was, like, really on my ass about being like, "No, don't water it too much." But I'm like, the one plant, It's outside right now getting its hour of sun for the day. But it is, it's, like, genuinely a really nice reminder that nature is there and there's a living thing in your house. And, I know that if I had a pair of your shoes, I would not only be inspired to be out in nature, but just inspired overall, 'cause they're so fricking cool. Like, how just being able to make that is such, is so incredible and so creative and such a skill. So I'd, I'd be like, I'd be like, "Oh, I'm not feeling really motivated today," and then I'd look at your shoe- ... and I'd be like, "Oh, wait, I am motivated now." Cool. 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Okay, back to it Is there anything happening in horticulture right now with, that the sustainability conversation is missing? Because we're talking so much about sustainability nowadays compared to how we were- Mm-hmm ... 10 years ago. Yeah. I, um, I work part-time in a wholesale plant nursery. Mm. And even though we sell green products, plants, trees, shrubs, flowers it's one of the most polluting industries, 'cause everything's in plastic. And the amount of twine that's used, and it's just, it's just kinda crazy. But you know, I do know people that are very much interested in utilizing native plants creating gardens with low maintenance type of plants, That is, um, less energy that's used for machinery to take care of it, so to speak. Mm-hmm. Um, gravel gardens and rooftop gardens. And I know somebody that makes their own biochar. Um, there are people that are out there that are doing sustainable practices- Mm-hmm ... in, in landscapes, so which is pretty cool. Yeah. No, that's so... I mean, you would think You'd think in working with plants that it would be more sustainable, but like you said, it's there's pl- there's things that we don't always think about. That's something that when I was starting to wanna g- I don't know, grow some, like, basil or something on my balcony, um, my boyfriend's mom was like don't buy a plant from, like, Home Depot. Like, just buy the little thing of seeds," because like- Oh, right? Yeah. I was like, "Oh, I didn't know that I should be doing that." Um, I don't know much about plants. That is my brother's thing. Um, and he is there to teach me. But I think it's... Yeah, it's really interesting, and I encourage, encourage anyone listening to maybe go outside and go buy themselves a plant. And then maybe one day if you're feeling really crazy, you can turn it into a TV sh- into a shoe. Yeah. So, indoor plants or outdoor plants. My specialty is really outdoor plants. But I think for people who are just starting, they should probably get a, a houseplant that is easy to take care of. Yeah. Uh, spider plants are good and other types of tropicals. Yeah. Easy-peasy. Yeah. Cactus, you don't have to water it. That's the one I probably should have gotten. I have a snake plant named Medusa. And let me tell you, she's not looking too good. Uh- Yeah, you don't have to water her that much. Oh, okay, yes. I think I water it too much still. Oh, God, I'm like really overbearing. I'm learning. I'm learning. This has been so, so great. You are so amazing. And I want everyone to be able to find your shoes. So for anyone who wants to just see your work, wear or follow with what you're doing, and hopefully see one day that they're wearable, where can they find you? Or do you have any upcoming shows that people should know about where they can see them in person? Yeah. Um, so I have pictures of my footwear, of my shoes on my Instagram page. So that's Lennie Wilson is the Instagram. And I currently have some shoes that are for sale at a small boutique store in Centerville, Delaware called Wild Thyme. Other than that, I haven't started making shoes since my last show, but I'm making contacts to to do another round of, footwear. So, but it's just around the corner, I have a feeling. Yay. Well, so excited. I wanna see, do you have like any, um, behind the scenes videos of you making them? ' I would love to see just, like, a time lapse of you doing it. That's so cool. Um, that one, That one Action News- Yeah ... reel is probably the best. Okay. Um, but I don't have any kind of movies or just pictures, just stills. So, and I try to do a lot of, like, before and after. Yeah. So, like, the process of making it, the tools that I'm utilizing, what it looks like now, and then as I'm attaching the leaves, then I'm stitching it down, and then it's like a final product. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm, uh, I need to improve on my heels that I work with, but right now I'm using branches from trees and a belt sander just to kinda get them in the shape that I want. So but yeah it's a lot of fun. I like doing it. Just kind of like horticulture. Um, I kinda get lost in gardens- Wow and lost with plants, and then when I'm making my shoes, it's just the creation So, um, there's a certain process of when I'm making the shoes, it's about a six-hour from point to point. And because I work in pairs, I try to get the right shoe to match the left shoe. Mm-hmm. And so rather than, like, finishing one pair and going to bed and then getting up the next and doing the other ones- Mm-hmm I do it at the same time. So it's about, like, a five-hour, six-hour straight period where- ... I'm attaching leaves to the leather. I'm clipping the excess leaves off. I'm hand stitching it around the top line to complete the shoe. And then I do all that as the shoe is off the shoe last, and then I slide it back on the shoe last- Mm and lock it in. Um, so the shoe sits there and it ages and it dries, but it also absorbs, um, the shape of the shoe last. So it's- Wow ... it's quite a process, but it's, um... And I hold my breath a lot of times. But, but it's good. I can't complain. Are you, like, a perfa- I feel like I would be like, I'd be like, "Oh, my God, it's, like, ever so slightly off. They're ever so slightly different." Yeah. I mean, I've taken some chances and I- Yeah ... I've come up with some surprises, but I've also learned through trial and error. Yeah. And, I had, was making shoes from plants early in the springtime. And over here in the East Coast you know, leaves that emerge in early spring are really delicate, and I found out that they don't really last long. Um, I was a- they was like tissue paper. I was able to manipulate them and work for what I needed it, but as far as curing and having staying power, um, they, I was surprised how much they decayed. Wow. But, uh, so the leaf has to kind of, um- Be durable. Mm-hmm. So later on in our growing season, they toughen up and they get more seasoned and easier to use. And also at the end of the growing season, like in the fall with the leaves changing color and stuff, I was able to harvest some leaves that still have the same colors when they fell off the tree, and I'm very- Okay ... happy about that. That's cool. We've talked a lot about, but like the leaves change color. So like do you notice when you start them and then you end them, are, after some time, are they a different like color? Yeah. So there, there- Okay ... there's some leaves that actually do, um, do change color. I can't say change as much as maybe they'll lose their green- Okay. Yeah ... and then turn brown, but different shades of brown. I've seen like hints of color still in the leaf. And also because I use the underside of the leaf- Mm-hmm ... um, you have all that pattern and textures to look at, which to me is very interesting. Yeah. Yeah ... but yeah, I've I get a question about how long do they last, how long do the shoes last, and so I've been working in different methods of trying to, um, you know, keep the shoes from morphing too much. And so if I made it last year, it looks the same this year. And there's a way that you can take care of them, keep them in a controlled climate. Mm-hmm. Like a cabinet is one. But I've a- also been using like a a spray, like a clear, a matte acrylic, and that kind of seals everything and preserves it. Um, but it also sometimes it makes it shiny, and I'm not sure if I like the shininess- Ooh ... um, like a patent shoe. But, uh, anyway, but I'm experimenting with, um, different ways to kind of help preserve it preserve the shoes- Cool ... so they last longer. Well, that is so cool, and thank you so much for coming on and chatting. Before we leave, is there anything else you wanna like shout out about the shoe or anything else? When I'm asked to go speak about my leaf shoes, as people call them my program is called The Story of Shoe. Oh. And, you know, I kind of take people from attending the college and where some of my inspirations came from. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, Andy Warhol used to do illustrations of shoes for I. Miller, which was a shoe store in New York back- Mm ... in the '50s and '60s. And I think that... I started thinking, "You know what? I can make shoes." Even though what Andy did were, was very, like, you know, creative in his way, I could actually duplicate that and make a real pair of shoes. So that was, that's one inspiration from another artist- That's so cool ... that I, you know, could relate to. Yeah. You were like, "I'll do you one better. Let me actually create it." You know, and I like, uh, I like looking like at the history of footwear and what people were wearing back in the 17th century. And some of the methods of fabrication were very simple, and I can mimic that when I'm making my shoes 'cause the more complicated it is, it's more difficult for me using plants to incorporate. So I like um, you know, basic kind of classical designs. Mm-hmm. And then I take riffs off that and get creative depending on what plant I'm working with. Yeah. That is so cool. I think that- I mean, I talk a lot about just, like, I guess what the future of the fashion industry could be if we, you know, really put our minds together and, and get all the cool creative people and get the sustainability people involved and whatever. And I'm like imagine I'm just walking around and my shoes are made of leaves. Like, how cool, how cool could that be? Yeah. And they would rustle when you walk. Yeah, you would know I'd be coming. You'd hear me- Or- ... before you'd see me. Or if you're wearing the ginkgo shoes, you'd have really good memory. Oh. Yeah. I love that. That's, it, it's truly, like, it's so, so, so cool what you do, and it's not even just, like, cool, but it's so... It's you're fully m- I mean, it's hard enough... The average person, I don't think, can just casually create a shoe. So to be able to do it and incorporate nature is just, like, an added level of creativity and skill. So it's, it's really amazing, and I, I... Everyone should go check, check them out. And I can't wait to see what you do next. Well- And let me know when they're wearable, 'cause I'm- well, thank you so, so, so much. That h- this has been amazing, and I'm, again, just super inspired. 📍 📍 ​