37. Jeremy Hudec - PTSD, Identity Loss, and Purpose After RCMP

First responder PTSD doesn’t always look dramatic. Very often it's bad sleep, isolation, snapping at the people you love, and the feeling that something is wrong even when you can’t explain it.

In this episode, I sit down with former RCMP officer and founder of Project Life Spark Jeremy Hudec.

We talk about what years of frontline policing really did to his mind, body, family, and sense of identity. 

Jeremy shares how burnout, trauma exposure, lack of support, and institutional betrayal built up over time ... and how things eventually spiraled into depression, suicidal thoughts, disconnection at home, and the belief that this was just how life was going to feel forever.

We also get into what changed after he found a different path, how he started making sense of the guilt and pain he carried for years, and why he came home with a renewed sense of purpose. 

That purpose eventually became Project Life Spark, a nonprofit working to help Canadian veterans and first responders access deeper healing and real support.

Connect With Jeremy:

• Project Life Spark: https://www.projectlifespark.org
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/projectlifespark/

👉 Want support with Mindful Microdosing + integration?
Visit becomingom.org or DM “INTERESTED” to @becoming.om

MICRODOSING FUNDAMENTALS:
go.becomingom.org/resources/microdosing-101

ALTERNATIVE HEALING FOR VETERANS:
go.becomingom.org/resources/healing-briefing.

Thanks again for listening!

Enrollment is open right now for the 2026 Operation FlowState Jiu Jitsu & Healing Retreat. 

Spaces are limited due to the small size of the retreat center and spots are already more than 75% filled. 

Visit becomingom.org/flowstate for all the info and to submit an application. 

Or for info on our online healing programs, DM us the word INFO on Instagram.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to the Plan Medicine for PTSD podcast. I'm David, and you should already know that by now if you're listening to this. So I am joined today by a gentleman named Jeremy Hudick. I think I'm pronouncing that last name right, who is a retired RCMP officer. For all of my American listeners, the RCMP is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, meaning they are on horseback at all times. No, I'm just kidding. But the RCMP is um it's sort of like a blend of like the FBI, but also local policing. Uh things are a little bit strange north of the border, but um they are a police force. And Jeremy was on this police force for many years, up until uh, well, a multitude of things happened that ultimately ended his career that you are going to hear about in this episode. He's got a pretty crazy story, a little bit reminiscent of if you guys listen to my episodes with uh guy named Mike LaGregni, where there's like a combination of traumatic events happening, uh terrible management from like the higher-ups and just like a horrible culture at work that's ultimately making him feel like he was getting pushed out. And as you'll also hear, Jeremy had like a few genuinely crazy events happen, like this car accident that he got in while responding to a call, and then all of the legal ramifications that that came with that. So I I think this is a very interesting story, just purely to listen to, as like, wow, that's a crazy story. But all of that is really just a preamble to the healing journey that Jeremy went on. And uh he he ended up going down to Mexico to sit with Ibogaine, and that medicine changed his life so profoundly that he knew that he had to do something to help other people get access to it. And he went and founded Project Life Spark, which, to be fair, at the time of this recording is not technically a nonprofit. They're still waiting for a letter in the mail from the Canadian equivalent of the IRS. But essentially, it's a nonprofit whose mission is to support fellow uh first responders getting access to Ibogain. And interestingly, we have a client right now who shall remain nameless, who is an RCMP officer going through our microdosing program to help him heal from his PTSD. And he's been in touch with Jeremy trying to get a scholarship to go down and get an ayahuasca, or I'm sorry, not an ayahuasca retreat, to get access to an Ibogain retreat. I recorded an episode just earlier today, a lot about ayahuasca, so I've got it on my brain. So I I do uh perhaps I feel like I owe Jeremy a bit of an apology because when we recorded this one, I was so tired. Uh, I think it was a day where Sita, our daughter, woke me up at like 4 a.m. or something. So my brain was probably not at peak function. So I'm sorry, Jeremy. Uh, fortunately, he does most of the talk in in this episode. And like I said, his story is, I think, really, really interesting to listen to. So without further ado, let's get into this one. And Jeremy, thank you again for sharing this, and thank you for doing the work that you do with Project Life Spark. Um, tell us a little bit about your your background. So tell talk to us first just about your your career and uh what you were doing before Project Life Spark and all this.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Okay, so um I guess uh originally I was I I was trained to I was trained to be a pilot. Uh did commercial uh went up all the way to my commercial private uh multi-engine IFR rating and I was trying to uh join the Air Force. I wanted to join the Air Force, that was my I kind of always felt this need to serve. And uh I went through all the application and uh I went to a local uh college or was university now, but local college at the time, took their aviation program, and part of the program was if you paid for the first year that the Air Force would pay for your second year, and then you skip a phase of flight training and all that sort of stuff. And uh went and did all the testing and stuff, and I came back and they're like, Hey, you're you gotta test your eyes. And I'm like, Okay, test my eyes. And a few weeks later, I get to go, Oh, yeah, you we want to test your eyes again. I'm like, Oh, that's not good. Yeah, that's not good. So, anyways, long story short, I I was disqualified from your crew status. Um, but they're like, We'll still send you to training if you want to go. And I'm like, Well, it's a big commitment to to not do what you really want to do. So I kind of said no thank you, but no, thank you. And then I took a bit to figure out what I was really wanting to do, and I just I knew I'd I always felt, like I said, I felt this desire to serve. And I hadn't when I was growing up in my hometown, there was uh a fellow that lived across the street from us, he was a Mounty, a member of the RCMP. And he I remember him telling me way back, he's like, Oh, you should you should join the mounties, and I'm like, No, no, no, I'm not uh I want to fly and kind of came full circle. And I said, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna apply. And so I ended up I uh I joined the RCMP and I served from 2005 to 2015. Uh I was all in uh frontline general duty policing. Um so uh I was in a uh a small limited duration posting for the first four and a half, five years of my of my service, and then the next remaining uh time I was in another larger center just south of Calgary.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Okay, I was I was gonna ask what kind of settings those were in. Because I've met some dudes where they're uh their life is pretty chill, and then I've met other dudes where they're you know they have like three people responsible for however many hundred square miles on a reservation and they're getting shot at every day by indigenous folks, like uh for crazy stories. So what was that your you said 2005 to 2015-ish you were doing that, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

So what were those experiences like?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, the um my first post uh was was very rural. And like when I were when I went there, I remember that I I knew where it was. I'm from Alberta, so I knew where this place was. I knew it was very rural. Um, but when I got there, uh it was me and my trainer. That was it. Yeah, like the detachment was short. We uh there's some people that had uh uh quit, transferred, uh, and then there was a fellow that was there, and he uh um his wife was pregnant, so there was a whole bunch of different scenarios going on there. We were short. Uh we have people coming in from detachments from all over the place just filling in the holes. Um so we were dramatically understaffed.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

And uh I remember people telling me, Oh, this is sleepy hollow, is nothing happens there, but dude, we were busy, we were so busy, and like it wasn't it was anything but sleepy hollow. Like in twenty two thousand five, like oil boom was going on, and man, these there was drugs and and booze and flowing like crazy over there. Um it was crazy, you know. And then you're dealing with for whatever reason, um it seemed like we had a fatal on the highway. Like I don't there was a lot in the first few few months that was there. It just seemed like people were just going out there to die on the highway. It felt like that. Um, but yeah, we just we dealt with all the stuff that a police officer in a large center, but you know, we had domestic disturbances, armed robberies, we had stabbings, we had you know, you name it, right? It's all that stuff. Uh where I started running into issues was I just got burnt out. I I had no outlet when I wasn't working, I was on call. And so like there were I I mean we my trainer was very diligent on saying you you gotta keep track of your time, you know, you need to, you know, keep good records of your time and what you're working and everything. And then I I still have them like working like 80 hours over time in a two-week period wasn't uncommon. Like there was a lot. They were getting called out, you know, you get home, and yeah, I remember just you know getting home and it's blowing snow and freezing outside, and it's like you know, three, four o'clock in the morning, and I literally just sit down to take my socks off and the phone rings, and I gotta go back out again. The car's already cold, and just like oh man, it was I was burnt, I was burnt out. I just got fried, and there was no social outlet. I didn't have any, I was young, single guy at the time. I didn't have any family there, I didn't have any friends there. Uh I just I just got fried, and uh within the first year, I I I I just noticed I was I just wasn't feeling very good and I didn't know what it was. I I I wasn't sleeping very well. Already just within the first year of working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I wasn't sleeping very well, you know, and just like oh I I think my bed's not not good anymore. And you know, I'm gonna go buy a new bed. So I went and bought a new bed, and you know, like that'll fix it. Yeah, well, I I well, I I didn't know, yeah. Yeah, I didn't know what postronic stress was. I had no idea. Um but I I just like I just remember like I'd go out it the summer of 06 specifically. I remember like I would go out to work. I remember like I'd I'd just start crying before I left. I don't know why I would. I just did it, and then I'd get myself together, I'd go out, and I would not remember where I went, what I did, who I talked to, my whole shift.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Damn, that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Like I just I had it just like I went into this different mental state. This yeah, I just I had no, you know, and like even and you can you can imagine my work suffered from that. Like I you know, I remember when I caught finally months down the road after I kind of got back had a break and I got back in there, I started looking at my work and I'm like, what was I doing here? Like, you know, like my notes weren't very good. I just and I knew something was wrong. I just I didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

That's what I was gonna say. Like, if if you're you're you said you were crying before your shifts, right? Just like sitting in your car, like you had no idea why, you had no idea what was going on. But that's a pretty big fucking red flag that something is amiss here.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah, and I just I just you know what when I did eventually have time to leave, I'd leave, and I'd have this when I'd have to come back, I'd have this sinking sick feeling in my stomach. And I just yeah, you know, um I think honestly, David, I think that in some aspects, like you you know, as a police officer what you're like what you're going to get into, you know what you're going to deal with, but you don't really know what you're gonna deal with. You don't know what that's like until you're actually in it. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

I don't know if I know what you're saying because I was never a police officer.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Okay, so like as I think the general public in general knows, okay, you're you're a cop, you deal with death, you deal with you know um drugs, you deal you arrest people, you take care of bad guys, all that stuff. But you don't really appreciate the gravity or the depth of that, what that really means. What does that really look like? What is what is the impact of that do to somebody? And especially when you don't have you're not getting the proper rest, you're not getting the proper time off. Um there was no such thing as a critical instant debrief when I was in there.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Really?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Um, and that's in 2005. Like there was none, there was none of that. I don't recall any of that. Um so you you you start you know you know, you start uh you know social isolation isolation, all that stuff, you start attacking that stuff on top of of what you're actually dealing with on a day-to-day basis. And you look back and I'm like, well, yeah, no wonder I was feeling like I was feeling I was fried, right? Yeah. Um and I was young, like I I just I I I I don't really think I really appreciated what this all really meant. It's easy for me to look back now and be like, yeah, you might have been a little young and naive going into that. And it I I will say that like it didn't take me long, maybe two or three weeks, and I realized how lucky I was growing up. Um how grateful I was for the family and friends and and my life that I had. Like I remember calling mom and dad and just saying I'm not sure I ever said this to you guys before, but thank you for everything. Because like you you see some of that stuff and you're just like, I you did you just never look at the world the same way, you know? Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Post things in perspective.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, and like, you know, like I know I know that's it's out there on the internet, but you know, uh most people in their lifetime might see one or two traumatic incidents in their life. Um whereas a police officer, first responder, you know, it's hundreds. Yeah, hundreds of everyday occurrence. Every day, you know, and you know, and I uh years down the way when I was finally into a proper therapy setting, um, you know, and I was in group therapy sessions with uh military military veterans from Afghanistan. Uh the RCMP falls under Veterans Affairs Canada. So uh as part of that, RCMP officers get access to all the operational stress injury clinics across the country. So we would, we there's very many, it was frequent, it wasn't uncommon to interact with with military veterans in that's in that setting. And I'd listen to these guys' stories coming back from Afghanistan. There was guys that had served in Bosnia and wherever Canada's doing peacekeeping work, and I would sit there and like you felt unworthy for being there. Like you just like you felt like you were you were you listened to what they're dealing with, and I'm like, I don't belong here. Like this is you know, my experience was not that. Like, I don't and I remember I remember when I I I kind of vocalized this in in the group setting, and the one veteran he goes, nah man, he goes, You belong here, and I'm like, Well, what do you mean? And he said, Uh we go, we go out, we get deployed, and we're there for five, six months, and we we know what we're getting into, but we know there's a definite ending. Uh you guys, you go as you guys go out there and you do it every day, all day, over and over, 24-7, 365, again and again and again for years on end.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

I think the the one other factor that I didn't even appreciate until I started working with some more police officers is that the trauma, the the the things that a veteran goes through for the most part happened somewhere else. They happen on the other side of the world most of the time. Whereas you might have to drive past the scene of a fatality every time you go get groceries or drive past where you got shot at every single time that you want to, you know, go to the mall or what have you. So I I think that adds another layer to it that again, I didn't even fully appreciate until I worked with one of our first police officers where that was the case. Like literally to get to work every morning, he had to drive past the site where his best friend was shot and killed on duty. Kind of fucked with him a little bit, as one could imagine.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I was never shot at, so I was I I never had to deal with that, thankfully. Um, but I I could appreciate that for sure. There were, you know, yeah, there were how you go by certain houses or certain places on the road, and you're like, Yep, yep. Um just you know, get that tangled up your back. Yep. Not a good, not in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

So, dude, you you started in 2005. Within one year, you already feeling this. What happened from fucking 2006 to 2015? Like, how did you continue to survive this?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Okay, so I went off. I remember like my sister was in was a social was taking social work and she could see that something was wrong with me. I did, I didn't, I knew I didn't feel right, but I didn't know what it was. And I I remember I went to visit her and she like we went, she was on a break, lunch break, and I went to see her before I was heading back. And I just remember telling me, like, Jeremy, there's something wrong with you. You need to go see somebody, please. Like, and she's like, maybe promise to go see somebody. And it was it was upsetting for the both of us because I knew I knew she was right. I just didn't know what it was. I didn't know how to who said this to you? That was that was your sister? Yeah, my sister, yeah. Um yeah, and I just I just I didn't know what it was, and it was upsetting for both of us because I don't think she knew what it was either. Yeah, so eventually I did, I did I did write the forest dock. I think I I I just reached out to the forest dock, if I remember right. And yes, it was, and so that would have been towards the fall of 2006, and I made an appointment to go see her and I went in there and she immediately took me off duty. That was it. Um she's like, You need a break, and I'm like, and it was a little bit of a relief, but like the shame and the guilt that you feel you feel like a failure, but um, it still wasn't diagnosed. Um, but you feel this I just remember feeling like embarrassed and shameful.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Um why do you think that was like what what contributed to that? I mean I I I can imagine, but literally, like what were the thoughts or feelings that were going through your head at the at that time?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I remember feeling I th like you felt uh that I'd let everybody down. Everyone else on the force, you mean like you're the force, my family, my friends, uh my co-workers. You know, I'd signed up to do something and I'd I'm failing at it.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Um again, I just I just feeling that this there's something wrong with me, and I I didn't know how to verbalize that. I didn't know what that looked like. So I started going to see I didn't I remember I remember seeing like hypno hip uh I did hypnosis really and I did like there was some other sort of therapy that I did. I don't know what it was, I don't remember, but I remember I specifically remember excuse me, the hypnosis. And I remember just going to see like the family doctor in in that in that in where where I was living, and it was just like a huge dosage of antidepressants. Um you know, again, it wasn't there was no real therapy, there was no diagnosis. I was diagnosed with depression, but uh as we all know now, like depression is a symptom of post-traumatic stress, and I there's a little bit more to it than just that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but again, that that's as far as it was that that's as far as it was dug dug into. So, like basically I was given time off and uh a huge dosage of antidepressants, and by Christmas of 06 I was back on the road again. And again, just keep going, keep going. And I I that I would say the dosage got me through that like the meds got me through that first post, and and the guys that I worked with. I worked with a good group of guys, and they were like we're st I'm still friends with the guys from my first post. Like it always it was a it wasn't an optimal place as far as my personal life, but as far as professionally we were a close-knit team and we stuck together and we had each other.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

What uh what do you remember from the hypnosis treatments? Like, what was that like? Do you feel like it did anything?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Man, it's a long time ago, but I will say I do remember like um I remember like being hypnotized or like going through the therapy, and like and the guy's like after we were done, he's like, How long do you think you were weird we're I'm like and I'm like, oh you know, five, ten minutes. He's like, that was 55 minutes. So like the time there was like a time shift there for me. And I will say also that I did feel I remember feeling a lot more relaxed, but that did that feeling did not persist very long. It was maybe for like an hour or two and then it's it's gone, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. But I will say that I I do I I do remember that from the therapy itself.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Um, but once I went back on the road, I didn't there was not a more no more of that. It was that was really the only real therapy I ever got.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Um so just take these meds, good luck.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, well yeah, and again, like I I didn't know I would I didn't advocate for myself very well.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

And again, like the RCP is so spread out in these small little places all across the can't the country, and like you might like I was three hours away from a major center like Edmonton or Calgary where these OSI clinics, these specialty clinics were and honestly, I don't even know if they existed back then, to be honest with you. Yeah, maybe they didn't even exist, yeah. So that specialty care would have been a long ways away, and like to try to organize logistically like your schedule and having to go see people to get actual proper help that you need. Well, I don't I don't even know what that would have looked like. I mean, I know people are doing it now, but I don't know what that would have looked like for me at the time. Yeah, you know, it's uh that's tough. And I I I I I wanted to get out of there. I wanted to get out of there so badly. I just knew that it wasn't very happy there. I wanted life outside of work.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

And so is that what happened? You just got switched to a different posting that was less stressful.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

No, it wasn't it. Well, I mean, I my time came up eventually. They they uh they could only hold you there in like maximum five years.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Oh, okay. I didn't I have dude, I have no idea how the fucking RCFP works, man.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, well, I don't sometimes I don't think they do either. But anyway, yeah, um, so LBPs limited duration posting or maximum five-year post. Okay. So once you get to like maybe the three to four year mark, they start like, hey, where would you what's your what do you think about what are your where do you you know where would you like to go next? What's your kind of ambition, right? Prior to that, they won't talk yet. Then they have like isolated posts, and I think those are like two to three years max, if I remember correctly. I I could be wrong. I think two to three year maximum. And those guys are all like spread out in the far north, and there may there may be some in the further northern part of the province, but um typically mostly in the northern part of the country. Okay. So and I I think they I mean I think they have a tough time staffing those spots, so like they're not gonna just let you go. If you're not happy, so what? They don't care.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Like it's I was I was gonna ask, could they basically post you there kind of against your will and like keep you there kind of against your will? So your options are just quit or suck it up.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Not ideal.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Not ideal. Um, I don't know. Like I've heard people say that you know, you they they send people who do well in training to these smaller places because they've shown that they can handle themselves, handle themselves or they're competent to do the job. But I mean, quite frankly, if I would have known that, I'd been like I would have thrown a few exams here or there, you know, needs a little more direction. Send to someplace bigger. I don't know. I shouldn't say stuff like that, but just sandbag a little bit, right? In your head, you're like, but you're you're the kind of like people that go into that line of work are typically the kind of people that don't do it half-assed, they want to be the best they can do and on all that stuff, right? So I mean yeah, like you just it's a lot of lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda maybe going on further down your career you get, but um yeah, so that by the time I it took me a year to sell my house because it was such a small place, and um as you can imagine, the people aren't coming and going there and that much. So it took me a bit to sell my house, and I ended up taking a post in uh just uh south of Calgary, and I moved back to Calgary because after my first that post, I was like, I am never ever living in the town that I police ever again, I'm never doing that. Um and uh and I was happy to get back to civilization, so to speak. I was like, I remember feeling just like really glad that um if I wanted to go see a movie, I could do that. If I wanted to go out for supper, I could go do that. And I I was working with you know, I and I had people on my shift, it wasn't just me, you know. Like a lot of times when I was working, my first post, I'd be the only guy on between Stettler and the Saskatchewan border. Like now there's other detachment areas in there, but I mean, what I if I remember the numbers correctly, I think our detachment area was 1,400 square kilometers, square miles, something like that. Like it was it was a big space, and a lot of times you're the only guy on. And a lot of times your nearest backup is 40 minutes away and in bed.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

That's a yeah, that's exactly what one of our clients was telling us about, this dude who got shot at multiple times on reservations. Uh that that exact thing that you just shared, that where the closest backup is an hour away and he's asleep right now. So, like, whatever happens or whatever's about to happen, I am solely responsible for it. And I think that for him, that um feeling of being alone and just like nobody coming, like there there is no help available for you. I think that that is really what fucked with him the most on a lot of these calls. And like that's why I think that that's what's has stuck with him the most as well, in terms of like driving a lot of his anxiety that he still feels when he is chilling in the basement of his house and his kids are upstairs and he's like on high alert waiting for somebody to shoot at him. And like his only job today is to hey do some drywall in the kitchen and take a nap, and his brain is still scanning for threats the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah. Yeah, and it's true though. Like you I remember when I I mean it didn't take me long, and I was I come to the city and you find yourself you're always watching people, like you don't want to sit with your back to the door, you're watching what people put in their hands, get your like what do they got in their pockets, like it it you just you're just tweaked, like you're always on, always on, you know. And I will say, um at some point in between uh getting my transfer or towards the end of my post and getting transferred out, I decided to go off my meds. Didn't want him anymore. Okay. So by the time I transferred in 2009, and I'm starting like I'm happy that I'm coming back to the city, and I'm happy I get to do all the things that people do. Um I think I think I was starting to kind of come back, it was starting to creep back at me a little bit again.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Why did you decide to come off the meds? You just didn't want to be on them anymore.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Okay. How did that ever go for you coming off of them?

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So I remember feeling really sick, and I'm like, what the like I didn't I just did it. I did I went cold turkey. And I remember feeling really sick of getting getting the brain zaps and getting like the dizziness. And I remember like being at work, and like so my boss was really like on the weekends, he was really big on us not having to be by ourselves. So he'd like our schedule suffered so that we could have two-man car on the weekend nights. Every day, other every other day during the week. So, except for Friday and Saturday, we were we were rolling single person on shift, but he made sure he made sure on Fridays and Saturday nights that we had two people in a car. He just felt it was safer.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

But our our schedule suffered as a result, we didn't have as much time off as you know that we would we should have had. Anyways, and I remember working with my partner on this Friday and Saturday night, and then I was sick, like I felt nauseous, and I was getting these dizzy shots, and I remember like getting out of the car to go do like a traffic stop, and I had to like stop and like kind of brace myself against the car because I was dizzy. And I'm like, I don't feel very good. Like, I think I need to go home. Like, I don't feel very good. And I I I didn't talk to the doctor about doing it, like I didn't realize how how powerful those little things were, man. Like they're crazy powerful, crazy powerful, and so I just kind of wrote it out, um, and went off them. But by the time I went back to my next my next post, I uh I was starting to suffer the effects of of uh post-traumatic stress again. Or just it was I was starting to feel what what were you noticing?

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Like what crept back in?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I think anxiety, and I just had this I remember this sick sinking feeling in my stomach all the time. It's the only way I could really describe it. Um wasn't sleeping very well, like just and I was starting to I was starting to date my now wife at the time, and I'd I'd get back home and I'd be so tired I couldn't even lick my lift. It's like you just fall forward on the couch and you're falling asleep because I wasn't sleeping. And uh I just was not really engaging and just really um not doing well. And I remember we went to uh a wellness check. This was the spring of actually it was during the winter Olympics, 2010 Olympics. I remember this. Um we went to this, we went to I got this call for this wellness check. Basically, it was an attempt it was attempted suicide. Well we got there, we ended up saving the guy's life, but there was you know, there's blood everywhere. Um after that, I remember walk coming into work the next day and having this feeling or this thought, like I should not be here. There's something wrong. I don't, I don't know what it is, but I should not be here. And I I told where my corporal's at, and she's like, No, no, you're fine. And great, it's okay. I'm like, something's not right. It feels like it did before. Um and I remember going and I ended up reaching out to the forest doc again, and again again uh I was taken off duty, and I wasn't until 2010 that I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress. And I started seeing different therapists, and again, it was you know, weekly appointments and stuff, and I was and I was doing there was a lot, there was some pressure to come back to work, so I had a lot of some pressure from my bosses to come back to work when you're coming back, when you're coming back, and like they they were calling me and stuff, and so I ended up like doing like a mix of desk duty, it was light duties what it was.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

But it was it was honestly like there was some bullying and harassment that were going on there from the people trying to get you back to work or hacking.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

My supervisors, yeah, supervisors, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

When you say bullying and harassment, how do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Um I started write the stuff down because I know I'm just like I want to keep my anyways. There was stuff like because I was just doing all I was doing was traffic collision reports, it sucked. It was it was it was very, very meaningless work. Um and ever you make comments like, hey, we'll get you some dress into the pantyhose and you can go work up in front with the girls. I had my super one of my supervisors told me thought it was a fucking joke, thought I was playing the game. And of course you're sick, like you can't defend yourself. And I remember thinking, like, what if it was your son or daughter sitting where I'm at? Would you say that to them? Um you know, it wasn't it was tough. Like uh it was it was a tough, tough few years, and I I I I I wanted to get back on the road, and I did eventually get ended up doing that. Um and it was I was glad to do it. Felt like I was finally contributing again in a meaningful way. And then that spring, uh summer, we had uh some catastrophic catastrophic flooding in the area in this in the Calgary area. And again, I I started feeling just worn out, and I think I would start isolating myself a little bit. Um yeah, and I wasn't doing very well, and then I I uh in in October of that year of 2013, I was in a really serious car wreck while I was on duty.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

You were in the car wreck? I was in, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Shit, yeah. I was um I was responding to a rollover. I was coming out of the town, had my lights on and stuff, and I remember thinking, like we had some we had some freezing rain or sleep the night before. And I remember thinking it was more in the morning, I was responding to this call, and it was heading out to north of the city onto the highway, and the traffic was morning rush hour traffic, and I'm like, I need to slow down. There's a lot of cars here. I just I need to slow down. So I remember slowing down to you know 110-ish, somewhere in there, kilometers an hour. So six quick though. Okay, um, so cars are getting out of the way, and I'm like, okay, fine. Then all of a sudden this truck moves, and then I notice the truck ahead of me isn't moving, and I'm like, that's weird, that truck's not moving, and then I'm kind of going a little further, and I'm like, Holy shit, there's another accident here. So I hit my brakes, and nothing happened. I just like kept going, and I was like, oh no, and I got I'm going, I'm still over 100 kilometers an hour. And the last thing I remember seeing was the back end of a one-ton flat deck truck with a checkered steel plate bumper on it, and it had like uh bricks on it, had like masonry bricks and steel wire and stuff on it, and I just right into the back of that thing. Um and I I I don't remember if I lost consciousness or not. I don't, but uh, I remember kind of coming to my senses or trying to and like trying to engage the radio to call for help, and I just kept like gate hitting the RTT button or the transmit button, and nothing was happening, and then I'm like, oh yeah, the car's dead. Like so then I'm like, I need help. So then I'm I I kind of got my phone out and I'm like, I couldn't remember anybody's phone number, and I was like, I don't know who to call. So I started just like scrolling through the phone to rec find the number I recognized, you know? Like it was really like my brain was just fried. Like I um and I had like I was bleeding from my mouth. I remember that, and my neck really, really hurt, and my arm and my hand really hurt. And I remember somebody like this. So I was the last car in a I thought it was five-car pilot, but apparently it was six. I don't remember that, but it was a six-car in uh fender banner. Um, well, I wasn't a fender banner, but anyway. Um and somebody had come up to the car, and I could kind of see them saying, 'Are you okay?' and I'm like, 'Yeah, I'll be out in a second.' And then I tried, of course, I couldn't get out because the guardrail was right to my left. I couldn't open the door, so I had to like get out. And I like remember thinking, I gotta get out of this car. I'm not letting the fire department cut me out of here. There's no way. I I it's funny, you like it's just like I there's no fucking way I am getting the fire department cut me out of this car.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Why was that the thought in your mind? I don't know, sleep in pride, you know, that you know, fucking pride thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yeah, totally. Yeah, just stupid stuff like that, right? So I uh you know, I I unbuckled my seatbelt, and I remember like kind of climbing I had my duty bag strapped in the seat next to me and kind of climbing over that, and I could only like get the door open just a little bit because it was well, the car was smashed. It's crunched in. Um and so what the uh traffic analyst figured out was that I went from I think when I hit the back of that truck, I was doing 104 kilometers an hour. And I went from 104 to zero and two and a half feet. So the the car was destroyed, put it that way. And honestly, I think the only reason I came out of there without well, best case scenario, um, no internal injuries, like severe internal injuries. Worst case scenario, I think you know, it it could have possibly killed me, but my body armor really did save my life. It dissipated all that energy in the like the seatbelt, the body armor just dissipated all that energy. So, like I wouldn't, I didn't have any broken ribs, I had no like damaged internal organs. It was all like in my like fractures in my neck in my hand, really. This is like really the most severe in my concussion. But got out of the car and I like all right, kind of laying on the on the road like this, thinking, okay, I got out. All right, get up, go do your job. So got up. I went down to make sure everybody was okay. I was like, I started like getting everybody's documents, like just doing my job. I'm like, just get out of the way. Let's, you know, and just the driver's licenses, let's start doing this stuff and cut and collecting. I remember somebody said to me, Are you okay? And I'm kind of walking funny. I'm kind of holding my hand weird. I'm like, nope, I'm fine. So I just, you know, putting all this stuff into my pockets, going back to my car to like do what I'd always done.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

What is the real experience for all of those other people there that like you know they're this is like the worst day of their life getting in this accident, and then they're like, Oh, the cops are coming, and then the fucking cop smashes his car into their car too. Right and then just acts like everything is fine and starts taking their insurance documents. It's that's crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

But you know what? Like, I didn't know that that accident that wasn't the accident I was going to.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

That's what that's exactly what I was thinking, too. Like, you weren't even responding to where you were supposed to be. You're just like, oh, here's another accident.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

That accident literally happened like seconds before I got there. Oh man, that's wild. Like they had, I think that they had uh they had not been there very long until then they heard my they heard and saw me coming down the road.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Wow, what a good response time, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

We never get that.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Um yeah, and then I you know, I collide in the back of this truck, but anyway, you know, getting their stuff together, and and somebody asked me, Are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. I go getting everything back. I go back to my car to do my job, and I'm like, How the fuck am I gonna do this? The car is broken. I remember, oh yeah, the car doesn't work. How am I gonna do this? Yeah, and I remember thinking, I hope somebody gets here soon. I don't know how long I can hold on for. Like you in your head, like the adrenaline's starting to wear off a little bit. And I'm like starting to hurt. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just like, I don't know how long I can hold on to this for. And then the ambulance came, and I think somebody said, Hey, why don't you come with us this way? And I remember then sitting in the ambulance, and then somebody, one of my co-workers, eventually came and I just kind of dumped all the documents in their hand. Um should have gone to the hospital, I didn't. I went to like the urgent care center in town. Um had a cast put on my hand. I should have got x-rays and stuff done, but I didn't. I just I don't know what I yeah, anyway. But that was my last day in uniform, and I didn't know it at the time, but that was my last day. That was October 13th, 2013. Okay. And uh things quickly spiraled from there.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

In what way? I mean, I can imagine you just had a major fucking brain injury on top of everything else.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

But when you say they spiraled, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Now, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus. I don't. And I'm not saying it was entirely their fault either. I think that probably my behavior prior to the accident, my the the isolating that I was doing kind of didn't really help.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

And maybe my work was suffering. However, a lot of the people on my team just we don't want nothing to do with you anymore. Um people were calling, there were there was comments made, that sort of thing. Um and I'm trying to like deal with what my body is feeling, and then mentally I'm starting to decline pretty rapidly, and um it's just the violent feedback, you'll get pained, and it makes you feel your mind feel lousy, your mind feels lousy, and that kind of in you know, inflates the pain you're feeling in your body, and it's just a vicious cycle around and around and around. Um I will say I was so when I'm I've never been the guy to like just come home and drink by myself. It was never that guy. I'm a bit I was a binge drinker. Um and maybe you know, Fridays and Saturday nights, that's what I did. I wanted to drink. You never were that way up until this point. I I felt it was more of a social thing. I always drank, but uh, it seemed like I I think it got worse. It seemed to get worse.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Um looking back, I think it did. But anyway, um just a lot of isolation. from the people at the detachment and then um my supervisors or supervisor decided that I needed to I I should be charged for that I should be charged uh collision yes okay so they accents October and then I remember I think it was like March I get this call hey you need to come to get you need to come to the detachment you're getting charged you need you need to come pick up your ticket your violation ticket and I'm like what looking back I should have said no you you deliver it you know where I live I'm not I'm not coming in but I'm like you're sick I didn't I didn't know and like you're trained to like kind of you listen to your superior officers right yeah you listen to your superior should go so I remember sitting in her office and like her like give me this violation ticket and I'm like what do you what what is this for like this this feels like harassment this feels like bullying like what did I do wrong here like I was doing my job yeah what what did they what did they charge you with exactly it was drive too fast for road conditions and I said to her I said what am I being charged for like why like I was the only one that was hurt I was the last one in collision last car in the collision I didn't cause the collision I was acting in a in accordance with my my the do my duties like what is like this feels like harassment bullying and she goes Jeremy yeah I can see how you feel that way but you wrecked a black you wrecked a brand new police car and someone needs to be held accountable and I'm like what the fuck right like that's crazy so you get a lawyer and I went I went to court to like defend myself I pled not guilty on it obviously like I'm not I'm not taking this like why like this makes no sense to me like I'm feeling like I'm being singled out I'm being so you went to talk about that feeling of betrayal the institutional betrayal all these things and I'm struggling like at the same time I'm like going through therapy at OSI by this point I I got into OSI and now going doing all the things and I'm struggling with like should I leave should I stay if I'm not a police officer who am I like what value do I have if I'm not doing this like here I I felt like my entire identity was attached to my badge. Yeah um you know and again that I've let everybody down of I'm a failure I'm embarrassment to my my friends and family like and if what am I gonna do if I'm not this like I I I had no idea like I was struggling with all this stuff trying to feel better in my body trying to feel better in my mind and then I got the shit onto the workend that like I'm just it was too much. It was just it was just and you know like I remember walking to I remember walking to a therapy like to one of my therapy sessions and it was at Christmas time I'm walking through the mall because the office is at the top level of the mall and the music's playing and people are out shopping and look happy and the bells are jingling at the Salvation Army donation buckets and I'm like I remember thinking I want this all to end I don't want like what if this all just stopped and I'm like I remember feeling like really guilty about that feeling like what would my family do? What what if I actually did that and I remember crying on the way like I started crying in the mall and like walking through the mall and I'm balling everybody else is happy and I'm I must have I must have looked like I was just out of my mind. I must I don't I can't imagine what a I would have looked like to a stranger walking through it would have seemed but um yeah man I uh so I eventually I went to court and I successfully defended myself found not guilty I I like it didn't take the judge long it was like he got you could just see the look on his face like this is the most ridiculous thing dismissed like it was that's good it was it it was entire bullshit it was such bullshit like I I and I remember and then I came to find out that people in the my detachment people from my watch when they found out that I had success that I had won my my trial they said that's what a fucking joke that is in regards to what exactly just me winning career at that point no me winning like like what a joke the charges were no what a joke that I won what a joke that I was oh yeah Jesus Christ dude and I'm like again that feeling of betrayal and I remember I remember oh man I don't know I don't know if I want to feel I don't know why stuff like that I just I was at a I was at a I was at when I found out about that I remember collapsing on the floor in my bedroom and I remember like the sun had made where I where I ended up on the floor I remember the warmth of the carpet on the floor I remember the smell of the core carpet and I remember I physically remember my feeling my mind break explain that some more what does that mean it felt like my mind broke like I can't do this anymore um it was a physical feeling I I I I just like I I I don't know how else to explain it David it just like I I never felt a physical sensation like this is too much I can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Okay so when when you say my mind broke not like you were going insane or like losing your grasp on reality or whatever but just like I cannot function like this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Some of the things I was thinking was not reality I like I imagined I imagined like I knew or I knew some people from my attachment were out for out for wings at the time and I remember um thinking I'm just gonna drive down there I'm gonna go into the pub where they're at I'm gonna grab a glass bottle like a pint glass off the desk off the counter I'm just gonna walk up behind them and smash them over the back of the head I'm gonna walk out I'm gonna sit on the curb and wait for my coworkers to come arrest me good plan. That makes no sense like why would I I I but that's where my mind went um you know and then I was like well I'm I'm gonna file a harassment complaint against my supervisors because this is harassment this just doesn't feel right to me. So I filed a harassment complaint and it goes investigation of course the RCMP you know I went I went through I can't remember the name of the document the human rights can Canadian human rights code whatever it is legislation and I kind of went through it and saw where you know what they say and I I could relate parts of my what happened to parts of that and you know this was my case the investigation went out of course the RCMP investigates themselves so you imagine how impartial that was we found that we did nothing wrong that that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

It was it was unprofessional it was inappropriate but it was not harassment there you go and that and that so I got that the results of that came back in 2015 the spring of 2015 it sounds like you're lucky that they didn't charge you with harassing them for filing this harassment claiming the way that everything's gone so far.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Right right I'm the problem yeah but that's the that that's that is how the RCP works if you you are like I was a problem to get rid of yeah I'm taking up a seat I'm taking up a space that we could have a fully capable member and I'm sick I'm not there I uh I would like to I would I would hope that things are different now. I can't say that they are I mean from what I hear they're not um but so when I finally came when it finally came back that you know it's in a it's inappropriate it's unprofessional but it's not harassment it was at that moment I realized I had to go there was I would never be promoted this would follow me around no matter where I went I would never get plain clothes I would never you know really get to do anything that I wanted to do this would just follow me around it just and I quite frankly by this was I'm going into my 10th year at this point and I'm like I don't think I'm gonna I don't think I got another 10 years in to make it to pension it's it's not gonna happen. Um so I uh decided to leave put in resignation and I remember like driving to the detachment with all my all my gear and I I cried the whole way I was like I can't believe my career is coming to an end like this. I can't believe this is how it's ending. I felt cheated I felt like it had been stolen from me.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

Um all the things no you had you had brought up a moment ago as you were dealing with that claim against you um you you already kind of had this sense of like the identity of being a cop kind of being taken away and I I wanted to ask you where that was coming from because at the time like you were still technically a police officer so did it almost feel like you knew where this was heading kind of all along yeah I think I think deep down I knew that there's no way I was going to make 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

You know um yeah there's just no way uh so yeah like I I um signed all my paperwork off in 20 the spring of 2015 and I had enough vacation and time banked off to bring me to it was 10 years on the nose September 19th 2015. Wow that was it um I did feel once it was all said and done I remembered I it took a while to feel like the weight was coming off and I I think that you know and I I I had a buddy who had a landscaping company's like hey just come push a rake with me for a few months get you out of the house and like yep sounds good. Yeah that's a good opportunity just have some I mean I'm I'm I am not a handy dude so like that's about all it's good for yeah but you know get me out of the house and just know I would you know my son was born my first son was born in uh the summer of that year so that's stressful fucking leaving work and like hey I have no paycheck now I have no uh no no real prospects other than this landscaping gig and now I have a kid.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Yeah um and yeah I just he was trying to navigate all that and uh I ended up like uh and then actually that year I ended up discharging from OSI because I by that point had been like five years of like twice a week up EMDR and CBD CPT and CPT and talk therapy and group therapy and couples therapy and I did a sleep study and I was all these things like it was all the all the things you know medications and everything else and yeah I just I was I just needed a break so kind of fast forward a little bit get out in the public uh public sector or private sector sorry and uh doing my thing and second son's born and I'm kind of I notice as I'm you know a few more years into my job and I'm like starting to feel these things are things are coming up that I didn't really realize were there initially um like what what do you mean I had this overwhelming like insecurity like imposter syndrome not feeling good enough um and as time was going on like my wife's like I think by the time I got to 2020 2020 I'm 21 and uh my wife's like you're yelling a lot like you're always angry you have no patience um and the nightmares are continuing and all these things wasn't sleeping very well and your kids are like what age uh by this point my oldest would have been like five and my youngest is maybe like two or three yeah um yeah not not good not good and again like looking in the mirror just like hating what you see just yeah there's a unique combination of like somebody who already has a short temper or somebody who's already you know overstimulated easily because of the uh hypervigilance and also the fucking brain damage that you have man like that's a a real thing I think people overlook a little bit too much is like the TBI factor the a unique combination of those kinds like that symptom cluster and then young kids at home because dude your wife's not sleeping either so she's fucking overstimulated from breastfeeding and being home with kids and then you get home and your kid knocks something over just does normal kid stuff and now you start yelling and now you and your wife are fighting in front of your kids your kids are crying your wife's like what the fuck is going on here and then it all blows over and you look in the mirror and you're like what a fucking piece of shit I am yeah not a not a good combination.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Yeah and there was like she described me as the black cloud like it was easier just for her to go do things on her own with the kids than have me around yeah for sure you know um but yeah she I remember like she said like you need to go back like you're you're yelling too much and I mean go back to what like the OSI and the therapy and everything yeah yeah yeah you need to go back and so I did that I I again like I'm just okay fine let's do this again still on meds still doing the things uh at this point I'm probably like I'm into I I stopped taking sleeping pills when my first son was born but then like towards like me going into it I'm using marijuana to sleep so I mean it didn't really matter um and I yeah the nightmares and wasn't sleeping and just crouchy and I was drinking and just not engaging with the family and all the things um so uh that therapy continued on I would I did more like ART and talk therapy and uh cognitive behavioral therapy and that sort of thing and then I remember like in this kind of going into the spring of 2024 I remember coming back from my appointment and I'm driving down the hill in like into the valley where my where my house is and just kind of looking out and I'm just like time I'm 45 and I'm like I remember like looking out and just like man I'm 45 years old and this is the best my life is gonna get and this sucks and I'm like I don't know if I got another 40 years in my tank. Yeah this sucks I'm just like but yeah I just felt like I was resigning myself to it because what are you gonna do? What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

Yeah and you just you know you're thinking like well maybe maybe it'd be better if I wasn't here you know I don't know you know that we start getting those voices in your head again and you know I'm trying to go running and trying to go to the gym and do other things to take care of myself but when I'm running I got the voices in my head saying what are you doing this for you're a loser you're broken I've heard a lot of guys start they start convincing themselves I feel like this is the most insidious one my family would be better off without me here like did you ever have a thought like that I remember thinking like I just remember thinking they would it'd be better if I wasn't here yeah and I mean like I never I never I I will I I would I never had a plan I didn't know you know but I absolutely remember thinking that like maybe just be better if I wasn't here um fuck man I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Why are you apologizing to me?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

I uh makes it makes a guy kind of I just I feel really really bad saying stuff like that now man I don't think you should feel bad about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

I feel like if anything you should feel proud that you're not in that place anymore. Yeah I know that you're still here like you you succeeded yeah I don't know I just I I I think I feel bad because I I look at my kids and I look at my wife and I how could it have been alright for me to think that that would be okay for them to deal with that's that's what I'm saying man. That's the craziest part is that when you're in that place like you kind of you actually believe that that's how fucked up this is that yeah you can actually convince yourself that that's real. Whereas like I'm dude I'm sure that you know people who like fellow officers or other veterans who have killed themselves and you've seen what that's done to their family.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

Yeah anyway um yeah so just thinking this is the best my life's gonna get and uh what are you doing for work at that point?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

I'm working for uh I'm working my current job Suncore energy I was aviation advisor so kind of uh yeah back to your roots back to my roots yeah and I I I mean I love airplanes I love aviation so it I felt really blessed that I got to end it back where I was before but um yeah and I didn't really I didn't know what I was gonna do and then I remember listening to a podcast I was listening to Sean Ryan he was interviewing he was interviewing this uh army ranger sniper and I just I don't know I just like listening to it was always really interesting to me how like individuals who were in special forces think like their mentality uh how they approach life has always really really interested me I think they're just they're so focused and goal oriented and I just yeah I think singular in their focus too. Yeah and it you know it really like I was like you know I just maybe there's some bits in here that I could really use in my own life or things that I like would apply to my life you know and I just like listen to their stories and you know what brought them to do what they do and all that sort of thing. Anyways he was interviewing this sniper and as a sidebar conversation it was like a 10 second clip in a five and a half hour podcast they mentioned this treatment in Mexico and like oh you did that yeah yeah it was great you know I don't drink anymore and I'm more patient with my kids and I'm more all these things and I'm like and it was like literally 10 seconds on then they went and I didn't really think anything of it finished the podcast over a few days and then it like a few days after that I'm like man what were they talking about? I should look into that what was that try to go back and find it and I can't find it like 10 seconds and five and a half hours like yeah good luck you know right yeah so I'm like no screw it I'll just I'll message Sean Ryan I'll message him really and see what he says hey Sean um hey man I was listening to your show you know great work uh a little bit about me I'm a police officer I've been struggling with post traumatic stress I noticed you mentioned this therapy in this podcast what's that called I'd like to look into it for myself thanks again and I'll be damned if the next day you didn't get back to me. Hey man thanks for reaching out it's called IBA gain and five M E O D N T. Good luck Sean And I'm like, I but what? What is that? Like, okay, so I start doing the Google, put it on the Googler and the interwebs and everything else, and I'm like, Mexico? Like, I can't I gotta go to Mexico. And I mean, I know now that there's underground stuff all over the place with Ibogaine and Iboga and everything else, but at the time I did not know that. Um I gotta do I go to Mexico? All right, and I'm like, man, that's expensive. And then I I I came on to I found the mission within popped up. It was like the first one that kind of came up on the Google, and I I reached out to them, and I was like, and hey, I noticed that you're kind of really focused on the special operators. Like, you know, have you helped first responders before? Like, and if you haven't, that's cool, but could you point me in the right direction? Because I think this is something I should look into. They got back and they're like, Hey, yeah, we've we've we've helped a lot of first responders. You know, click here to book your intro call. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's just pump the brakes here. Like that's a little quick for me. And uh I started listening to more podcasts and kind of listen, like I listened to Sean Ryan's like podcasts, and I listened to Marcus and Amber Capone's experience, and I'm like listening to these guys talk about this therapy, and I'm like, and they're talking about their stories, and yeah, I was never a SEAL, but damn, I could relate with a lot of what what they were experiencing, like the feelings, and man, like I was like, I'd I'd you know, I'd be sitting in my truck listening, like kids are in the karate lessons, and I'm in the truck listening to this podcast, and I'm crying because I'm just like I could relate with that. That's that's me. Um sending stuff to my wife the whole time, not really talking about it, but just like, hey, look, check this out, check this out. And then we went out for we went out for my uh my birthday for supper, and she had uh you know, we're sitting there talking, and I'm like, hey, did you uh did you listen to that stuff I sent you? She's like, Yeah. And then like I'm kind of mentally preparing myself for a for an argument or a talk about it because I well, I mean it's expensive, and I but in my head I'm thinking this is this might I think this is something that I should try. This might be something I should be doing. Um so I'm kind of mentally preparing myself for the argument because it's a lot of money. Um and it's just it seems so far out there. Like I didn't really like it, just seemed like so far out of the realm of a possibility that I never thought about before.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

And she's like, Yeah, I I listened, I'm like, Well, what do you think? And I'm just kind of doing that, you know, bracing for it, and and like she didn't even flinch, she's like, You gotta go, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Amazing, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

It was incredible. Like, I just like that weight, like she's got me, she's got my back here on this one, you know. Like, I don't have to like argue about why I should be doing it or the benefits and like it I'd have to build up a business case for it, you know. Yeah, just like you need to go. Yeah. And uh I'm like, are you sure? Like it's it's a lot of money. She's like, we can afford it. She's like, just you can't put a price on on your health. And I'm like, well, you kind of can, it's that, you know. Um but so, anyways, long story short, I I I so yeah, I I made an appointment to go. I you know, this time I I consulted with my physician to come off my meds properly, yeah, not just cold turkey.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

Well, what was that like the second time around? I don't think that's something people really realize is like uh you know, the the types of folks who need these kinds of experiences are often the folks who are on SSRIs. Yeah. And you know, I I don't think that the retreat centers really do too much to help you with that aspect. So, what was that part of the experience like for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

So, yeah, I so to anyone who is thinking about doing this, 100% talk with your family doctor, have a plan about how you're gonna titrate off of these pills because they are so powerful, you don't realize how powerful they are until you're in the midst of withdrawals. So it was awful. It was again, it was awful. It it I was I was um super anxious. Um I was nauseous, headaches, I had the brain zaps. Yeah, um, and it's like that barrier I had. And while you're the SSRIs are while it's blocking those feelings, you have absolutely zero practice in how to regulate your own emotions. So I would be driving and I'd a song would come on and I'd start bawling. And I'm like, what is going on? Like, I what I it's and and like I remember one time we were going leaving on holidays, and I'm trying to get the truck packed and the kids ready, and I'm doing all the things and I'm running around, and I I stood in the garage and I started bawling. And and my wife comes out, she's like, Are you okay? And I'm like, I don't know what's going on. Like, I'm just like, I'm a mess. She's like, just you know, go take 10 minutes, go downstairs, you know, go meditate and just chill. I got this, and I'm like, I I I I was off the rails. I it was awful. Um, but again, you know, you got to wean yourself off of it. So I started, I want to say I started weaning off at the end of July of 2024, and I took my last pill somewhere, last bit of a pill, and probably like mid to late September, somewhere in that area. And I would say the withdrawal symptoms didn't truly stop until probably like a week or two into October.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

Yeah, I believe that. Takes a while for that stuff to get out of your system and then for your brain chemistry to sort of restabilize itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

Yeah. It's somewhere around like don't quote me fixture up there. I want to say it's around there somewhere, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

I almost feel like sorry, finished your thought. You what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Because they they want they wanted you want you to be like three weeks clear of your last pill before you go, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:45

At least, dude. When we were on an ayahuasca retreat, I wanted people to be like six weeks at minimum. Um because I I feel like it's almost like best case scenario with getting off the meds, they weren't even really helping you, and you're just dealing with the side effects of the withdrawals. It's almost worse when the meds were objectively helping you to deal with you the symptoms that you were having, because now you come off of them and like, well, now what the fuck am I supposed to do? Like I'm going to I'm seeking out the IBG because I'm not doing well, and now I'm objectively doing worse because I don't have this crutch that was supporting me. So that's a rough transition, man. Like the physical side effects, the brain zaps, and then as you said, the emotional turmoil and dysregulation that you're going through.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

That's hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

I didn't do a lot of introspection the first time I came off of them. Uh I would say my and maybe it had to do with age, I don't know, but my the the introspection I had the second time around is a lot more thorough. I I could I could kind of understand a lot better what was actually happening and what why I was feeling that way. It didn't make it make it any easier. It just like I said, that barrier that you had, yeah, you had absolutely zero practice of regulating your emotions. So you know, it's sometimes it was kind of comical. I remember like listening, I was getting out of the truck one time when I was coming back from work, and uh my wife's and I wedding song came on, and I'm like, I'm getting out of the truck and I'm bawling from listening to our wedding song. And she comes out, she's like, What are you doing? I'm like, Oh, just listen to our wedding song, you know. Just so we kind of had a little bit of a laugh over that, but like it's funny, but it's not, you know. Um, but uh yeah, so got all that stuff done, got off, stopped drinking, stopped the weed, uh, you know, kind of cleaned up my diet going into it. And my my retreat was uh November the 4th of 2024. And uh I will say that I mean that that's that journey itself, the journey with the medicines is probably like another discussion all on its own, but um it was it changed my life. It was you know, I mean, I was there for both the birth of my children and getting married and all that stuff, but it's right, it was the significance of those of that event was not small. It was not it was not a minor impact. It changed me, it totally completely changed my outlook on life.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:20

Yeah, and and you're right to detail the actual experience would take another probably three hours, so we don't need like a full a full trip report and everything. Can you help people you know who haven't done this yet? Just like you sitting there listening to the Sean Ryan show. So you just shared with us everything that led up to this point, how you were feeling heading into that. And then as you just said, you know, it completely changed your life. It's up there as like the most significant experience beyond perhaps you know watching your children be born. Like what do you think that it actually did? You know, what what do you feel like is the mechanism by which this uh changed you or made things better? Like why why was that such a turning point in your life? What did it give you? Or perhaps what did it take away?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:20

It allowed me to see things um from a different perspective that I had never really thought about before. It also it also helped to make sense of things where logically I knew to be true, but I could not make the connection between my mind and my soul. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:52

Well, all right, I'm saying right and nodding because I have also experienced that with ayahuasca. But what are you what do you mean when you say that, this connection Okay, so I'll I'll give you two examples.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:03

So um things from a different perspective. I wanted to be able to feel joy again. I felt like I was not capable of feeling actual true happiness and joy. Um I don't remember what that felt like, I don't remember what it looked like. Um so that was one of my intentions going into the into the medicine. Part of my experience was uh I at one point I it was a blue screen, blue all I could see with this blue screen, and I these little white boxes that were flying up into my field of vision like this. And each of these white boxes were videos of my life, and I could watch my life from like a little little boy, baby, all the way up to now. And one of them that well, there were a few of them, but what one of them uh I was young, I would say six, seven, eight years old, somewhere in there, and it was you know, I was gathered uh sitting around the kitchen table, and my family, my friends were there, and the look of my face was I had this big smile, and I looked free, and I looked happy, and I looked that feeling of joy. And then, you know, there were other events of me, you know, pretending to be Superman flying around my backyard with this red cape around my neck, and again smiling and laughing, and um, you know, and then I saw I saw things in my my visions of my family, and then my first dog that I had in my my first post, my first golden retriever, she was there, and she was like she'd come to visit me, like she'd come to kind of guide me along, you know, or she was there, and I could I remember seeing her, I'm like, Chloe, like I'm so happy to see you, and I just started crying, you know, like again. I thought I thought I wasn't able to be feel happy because of what happened to me, the trauma I had in the service. The medicine showed me that my life had been full of joy. I had just forgotten about it. And that was incredibly, incredibly powerful. It wasn't that it wasn't there, it was just that it was always been there. I just didn't recognize it.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:44

It's funny you you you use that example specifically, the the joy aspect. Um we had somebody, and I I've talked about this a handful of times before. We had somebody come to our Operation Flow State retreat uh last year. He's gonna be back next month, actually. He's a Canadian veteran. And he was telling me how he literally had an argument with his VAC therapist, trying to tell his therapist that joy was not real, that like human beings don't actually experience joy, like it's all fake. That's like the depth of this guy's fucking depression and just like flat feelings, right? Like joy doesn't exist. And then he comes to our retreat and watches, it was literally just me playing with my daughter, you know, and seeing like the look of pure unadulterated joy on this baby's face, who's maybe like a year old at the time. And just that put it into perspective for him who's like, oh, okay, this is real. This is a me problem, where I just haven't been able to access this in the last 45 years, really. So that's that's I I'm almost hearing the same thing from you, where it's like a reminder that this has actually been there all along. You just haven't been in touch with it or haven't been seeing that, haven't been able to access it, which I think is a thing the SSRIs do also, you know, the the numbness that they give you, the emotional disconnection, as you said, you know, it's that's great if you are feeling suicidal and it turns down the volume on those feelings, but it also just reduces your ability to really feel anything or feel connected to anything. And I I agree with you. That's one of the most potent things that the plant medicine can give us is a connection to that again. Um taking something that exists as like an abstract idea in your mind of like, well, I I should be able to feel this, but I don't, and then planting it as something that you actually feel like in your body and in your in your soul, as you said. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's fucking powerful stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:49

Yeah. And then the connection between my my heart and my mind, the logical stuff. So without getting into grand big details of it, I felt res I investigated a file in my first post, um, and an individual uh ended up committing suicide in that in the circumstances surrounding that file.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:22

And I felt that I didn't do anything wrong. I did my job, I did, I investigated like I was supposed to do. I did everything was everything was fine, but I felt that the things that I had done drove this individual to kill himself. Okay. So that's heavy. I yeah, and I remember like a week after this happened, sitting in the detachment and just telling my coworker, like I I made him do that, like I'd I I I I don't know how like I I feel like he did it because of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:03

And you know, logically in my head, like no, I didn't do that, but I could I it was just like this visceral this this deep down feeling that you cannot shake.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

That I was responsible for this man's death, and I I I there was there was no amount of EMDR, there was no amount of of pills, there was no amount of talk therapy that was ever, ever, ever going to get rid of that. I just I could not so, anyways, one of my intentions with the medicine was I wanted to be free of the guilt of this man's death. And I I remember like you could talk to the medicine, and like so I I after like watching these videos of my life, I said, What about so-and-so? What about him? And that blue screen immediately went black. And I started like hearing these gunshots, and with each gunshot, there would be like a photo, and it was like images of that day. So him laying in the field, the frost on the grass, you know, all these things that were in my head. And then I remember asking the medicine, did I do that? Am I responsible for that? And then those pictures went away, and then there was like these thundering booms in my ears. And with each boom of thunder, it was like these big red block letters written in red, no, just and it just every thunder, boom, no, no, no, it just kept coming down over and over and over again. And so when I say like the connection between like yeah, your your soul recon reconciling with your mind, that's what I'm talking about there. Now, another thing that came out of that with a five Me O DMT um was a connection with a higher power that I'd never ever had before. That was that was totally unexpected. Like I did not I I I did not bargain for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:21

I don't know how you can do this stuff and still be an atheist, man. I think you're doing something wrong if you come out of an experience like that and you still don't believe in something.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:28

It's it was nuts. It was it was it was absolutely crazy. And I will say, like, even to this day, I'm still trying to figure out how that all fits within my life and how it how what I experience fits in with any sort of like spirituality or religion. I don't I don't really know. I I I still I'm still navigating that. Yeah, I'm grateful for it. Like I'm so grateful. It's given me a lot of different, it's given me a purpose. Um I will say that like when I when I handed in my badge and my gun, I I I I was done. There was no way I was gonna, I wanted no part of service. I'm like, I I did this, I'm out. And now like when I came back, I remember thinking, like, no, no, I am still meant to serve, it just looks different.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

Yes, let's let's talk about that. What is the sense of purpose now that you gained from so on the airplane?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

I remember thinking like I think all those group therapy sessions that I sat in with these other veterans and like first responders, like uh RCNP officers, and I mean I and you of course, like you you just see on the news and social media all these these first responders and and veterans dying by suicide. And I'd heard stories of divorce and suicide and substance abuse and broken relationships and all these things, and I'm like, do these guys not know about this or do they know about it and they can't afford to go? Like, what is going on? Like, I I nobody I knew, none of nobody I knew. We certainly didn't talk about this, we didn't know about it. So, I mean, what what's going on? So I remember thinking, like, that's not acceptable. Like, I gotta try and do something. And I remember like this kind of idea just bounced around in my head. Like, and I remember looking, like, when I was looking for help, there was a lot of American charities that were helping first responders and veterans. Yeah, but on the Canadian side, I'm like not for this. There are other there are, yes, to be sure, there are other charities out there that help veterans and first responders. There, and but I would say it's it's done in the more traditional sense, which it has its place. Absolutely, it does. It does. But when you're having when you have complex post traumatic stress, there's only I I I I there's only so far that's gonna that those traditional means are gonna take you.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:01

Um, and maybe it's enough for some, some it's it's not. And I for myself personally, I was not satisfied with how I was feeling. There was there was just no way I could continue on the way I was feeling. So coming back, you know, I'm on the plane, I'm thinking of all this stuff, and again, uh, I'm just like, I could not fathom a reality where I went on with my life and did not try and do something to help other people with this. There was just how do how do I continue on knowing that this is out there and there's still people dying? Um families are losing loved ones, relationships are are are falling apart.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:45

That's so how how did uh how did the project LifeSpark get started? Like was there like a flash of insight of like I need to start a nonprofit? Or was it just kind of the culmination of those feelings of like looking around seeing there's really not many options and people need this, and I I can't I can't not do my part to bring this to people, so I I guess I have to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

But it was kind of like that. Yeah. It was like there's nothing there and nobody's doing it, so I guess that's me. And I'm like, I don't know anything about this. Like I I know nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:21

As we discussed the other day, running a nonprofit is really not fun at all. Or it's not it's not a great time.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:29

It's it's it's tough. It's tough for sure. Uh, but as difficult as it is, as you know, I I carry the weight of each individual that we talk to. Um, I I talk to each of the individuals that apply to our program and um you know, very upfront with them, like you know, like funds are limited. We want to help you, we will help you. I just don't know when that look when that is. You know, but I I listen to each of their stories and I'm like, you know, I I I want to make sure they have supports in place. I want to like if you don't have it, like what can I do to help you find some? Um, you know, and then now they have my phone number, they got my email address. So like if you need something, please let me know. Uh we want to help. But um I carry that. Like it I want like I worry about them. They're they're they're my guys, they're my people now, you know. Um so yeah, like when you say like it's it's it's it's tough, but like damn, it's rewarding. Like I I I want to be able to help these guys feel something again. And I I remember like for myself getting through the withdrawals, I had hope again. Like I had this thing on the other end of that, and it gave me hope, and I hadn't felt hope in 20 years. And that was a powerful thing. That that got me through all the withdrawals and feeling sick, and man, I all I had that little that thing at the end of the tunnel, that little light at the end of the tunnel was my trip to Mexico where I'm gonna do this medicine I'd never heard of before and and experience these things I'd never experienced, but um that little bit of hope got me through all that to get me there. And so if if I could if there's any I felt like if I could give that to somebody else, if I could share my story or or or share my experience and and and and and help somebody else feel that little bit of hope that maybe that gets them through their difficult time. That's worth it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

Dude, I mean yeah, you're fucking speaking my language here. Like I I talk to literally like we talk to like hundreds of people a month seeing what we can do for them, if our program's right for them, if we can point them in some other directions. And uh it's heavy, man. Like I I do all of that. Like I'm the point person, like anybody listening, if you've ever messaged us on Instagram, like that was me. And one day, I don't even know why, but Cordy took a look in there, and you know, I was somebody talking about like losing their their fucking like infant child recently. And you know, Cordy just like dipped her toe in that world of like talking to all these people, and like that messed her up for a while, and that's like that's what I'm doing day in and day out, man. Yeah, but then you know, we I can list I can literally rattle off 20 people who told me that you know years ago they were suicidal and now they're here and they're doing great because of our retreats or our program or whatever. So yeah, it's it's worth all of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:54

Yeah, so like um, so the name Project Life Spark. I uh I remember it was after my five MEO session. I remember laying on that mattress in Mexico and it felt like God took that spark, that life, that feeling in your chest, just put it right back in me. That's you know, um that's where that came from. But uh yeah, so like yeah, it was just like little bits of steps. Okay, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, so I gotta find a board, I gotta build a website, do all the things.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:28

I wanted to ask you about that because you're the people on your board seem pretty impressive. Like I was just kind of reading through that and like looking at some of their resumes and stuff. Like, where did you find these people?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:38

Man, I uh the people on my board are rock stars. I I feel like a small fish in a big pond with those guys, like they're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:49

Uh the I I forget the gentleman's name, so I apologize. But the legal representative that you have, I was like reading through his bio and I was like, how the fuck does Jeremy know this guy?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:59

Well, I didn't, I didn't I didn't know any of these people. What I was doing, what literally what I was doing, I'd go work my normal eight-hour job, I'd come home, get on the computer, and I would start doing Google's Google searches like uh Canadian psychedelic lawyer or Canadian uh doctor psychedelics, and just reading like articles and like different things would come up, and like so so um, for instance, Jim Parker was my first uh board member. I found him. He was I found him through a CBC article where he had donated money to the local university, and they'd set up the Parker Research Chair of Psychedelics at the University of Calgary. And I'm like, that's a guy I want to work with. Like obviously he believes in this, like, and it talked about how he had a family member who uh the article talked about he had a family member who he had funded some psychedelic uh assisted therapy for, and was was such a deep believer in the results that he saw that that's he decided to donate money to the local university. So I'm like, that's a guy I want to work with. So I went I found him on on LinkedIn, and like he also set up uh uh an uh organization in Calgary here called uh called Bloom Psych uh Psychedelics, where they would they treat the treatments here. Um it it's exit his uh that his version of Bloom doesn't exist anymore. Um it's it exists in a different format than what he had. He's out he's out of it now. But um I just wrote him on LinkedIn and like hi Jim, um a little bit about me. I'm setting up a uh nonprofit, and I'm just wondering if you'd be interested in having a conversation about being involved in it. So and I'll be down if you didn't get back to me. He's like, Yeah, let's chat, let's chat. And I'm like, wow, okay, cool. So then we we talked and he's like, Yeah, I want to be a part of this. I'm like, awesome. So and then David, um, because in my head, I always I I wanted to have a I wanted to have like a doctor on my board, and I wanted I should have a lawyer on my board, and so David, um, Jim knew David, so he Jim facilitate facilitated the intro with him. And again, I just you know I wrote him an email and said, This is a little bit about me, would you like to meet, discuss it? And so yeah, we we met for lunch one day, and I kind of told him what my vision was, and and and he believed in that as well, and he's like, I'd like to be a part of that. Um Rakesh, um Rick so Rakesh was the chief was the head of uh the Canadian Armed Forces, he's the chief the head psychiatrist for Canadian Armed Forces during the Afghanistan campaign. And he had I found his name through a uh report that the uh this the Canadian Senate did on um uh veteran affairs subcommittee on psychedelics, and his name was in that. So I'd reached out because I wanted to have a doctor in my board. So I reached out and said, hey, this is what I'm doing. So we chatted again, he believed in it. I want to be part of this great, awesome. And then Gordon, uh Gordon uh is an ex-Canadian Forces Special Forces guy. Um and he was referred to me actually. He he did uh intro to Gordon was made through um the my operations coordinator through the mission within. Okay. Um he he was an ex-SEAL, and the connection was made through the Honor Foundation that way. Okay. So yeah, I got an email saying, hey, Jer uh Jeremy, Gordon, Gordon, Jeremy, I'll let you go from here.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:47

Yeah, Gordo's the man.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:49

Gord's awesome. Yeah, he's he's yeah, he's great. He's all he's like I like I said, like I told my wife this numerous times. I cannot believe sometimes I have to pinch myself that I was able to somehow convince these amazing individuals to be a part of this with me. That means you're doing something right. Well, I certainly don't know what I'm doing. I'm trying to do my best. That's you know, but anyway, so we that's that that's how my board came to be. And like I I'm they're amazing individuals, each and every one of them are rock stars in their own right. Um I'm just glad that they believe in what we're I'm trying to do to be. Yeah, amazing, you know, and I yeah, I um yeah, so that's how that came to be. So um board, um, of course you go through all the paperwork and get registered and stuff. We we went live in say end of May, beginning of June of 2025, and our one my in my head I had a goal. I want to be able to send one person because we didn't have a charity number yet, and that so we can't issue tax receipts. So raising money is a real challenge when you don't have that ability. Um so in my head, I thought if I could get one person down, that's a win. Oh, and I should say, my wife and I, when I got back from from Mexico, um I felt like I needed to try and help somebody. So we ended up sponsoring a veteran to go through the program on our own prior to Project Life Spark being born. So um, but again, it would just how do I stop at one? I just I couldn't again, I couldn't fathom a reality where I stopped at one, like I was annoying that there's so many people on the Canadian side that that need this work, right? So yeah, so we went uh went live, had the idea of sending one. Um, and I you know, I just kind of went out, started doing the advertising, you know, on social media and saying, hey, you know, this is what I got going on, this is what we're doing. Um, I did other podcasts to kind of tell the story a little bit, and I know everybody that I talked to was like, that's an incredible story, like that's amazing, you know. Um and it is like uh my story is there are thousands of veterans and first responders like me that have this similar story, right? There that they're we're out there, it's just that people you don't know about it because it's such it seems like such a it's it's still got that 1960s psychedelic stigma, and you know, in the 1980s.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:23

Because there's a million fucking podcasts like this, but I think there is also a unique angle too for law enforcement where it's like, oh, you mean this thing that's illegal that I've arrested people for? I'm supposed to use that now to heal. But you know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:38

You know what? Where we go to where we're sending people, that's it's absolutely legal there. There's nothing illegal about it in Mexico.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:46

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:48

So it's just a change of perspective a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:50

So what's on what's on the horizon for you guys right now? You still don't have this fucking tax exem status. And I think you you said you were we're just waiting on the Canadian government for that, so who knows when that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:00

Yeah, it's um yes, it's it's with the CRA right now. Um, I'm hoping by the summer we have it, but I mean there's no guarantees there. In the meantime, through the kindness and generosity of friends and family and people who know people, um, like we we were able to send two individuals to Mexico, so they're both of them first responders, um, and both of them are doing amazing right now.

unknown 1:41:30

Good.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:30

Um, but yeah, we're just it's you know, but it's like I said before, the challenge is we have people applying and we still don't have the money to send them all, right? And I think maybe that's a challenge of every nonprofit out there. There's never enough money to help everybody who needs it, right? Pretty much. Uh, but again, for us it's a little bit different. It's uh we're still within our first year of operation. So and on you know, talking about chat challenges, David, I think that this is something I struggle with intensely as well. I am constantly comparing myself and my organization to the other larger organizations out there, heroic hearts, vets, 343. These guys are doing amazing work, right? Man, these guys are the in my mind, like that's where we need to be. But I mean, they've been operating for years now, and I'm like, I'm sitting here at the first, not even the first year, and I'm like, but I set the bar so high, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:28

Like you want to do you need to unfollow all of those accounts on social media, dude. For real. When I started work when I started my uh when I started my first like coaching business doing like physical therapy stuff, that was one of the pieces of advice that our like my business mentor gave me is like go unfollow every single other person in the same industry right now, because comparison is the thief of joy, dude. As as we as I said to you when we first talked, like you already sent a couple of people, you already changed a couple of people's lives. That's amazing. You're crushing it. But then you look at HHP or vets and you're like, I'm doing nothing with my life, I'm not where I need to be. Yeah, it's not the the the the medicine that told you to forgive yourself for all those things that happened, it wouldn't be telling you, yeah, Jeremy, you're not doing a good enough job right now. So all those thoughts are not what the medicine wants you to hear, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:23

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it it totally like it gets the hamster wheel going in my head, and I like and you start like second guessing yourself and all these things, and no good, dude. That yeah, you that's good advice. Maybe I should do that. Maybe I should. But uh that's not to say that they're not doing excellent work, they are. I just it's not good for me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:50

They're amazing, but yeah, they are they're you don't need to remind yourself of how far away you are from that every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:57

Yeah, so you know, and I I think that uh and I I honestly like I like part of I came out of my the integration that I do every day, like the meditation and the praying and the breath work. Part of my prayers every day is you know, you know, give me the strength to realize, you know, to be patient with myself and and and and take away those feelings of ego and and and insecurity because they don't they don't serve me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:29

Yeah, dude. God halfway here. Stop stop giving yourself those feelings, man. Yeah, yeah. And totally is absolutely it is. On on that front, what else are you doing now on a daily basis? Because you know, it's easy to hear this whole story and be like, yeah, his his one week in Mexico completely changed him. But I'm sure you've also heard, like, dude, I I I I know of just as many store like success stories as people who kept going back to the medicine multiple times or who went on a retreat and like their life went back to shit six months later because they didn't do anything afterwards. So, what has that looked like for you since getting home? Like, what changes have you made? What things have you put into place?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:12

Yeah. So I will say this is not a cure. It's not a cure, it's not a one and done for anybody that's thinking that that is 100% not the case. It is a therapy just like the rest of them, albeit a far more effective therapy. Um there is work to be done before, there's work to be done during, and there is work to be done afterwards. And I would argue that the work done afterwards is more important than the journey itself. I would agree. Because it is you can go down to Mexico, you can spend all the money you want to spend on it, but if you don't do the work, you're pissing it all away. You've just had a crazy vacation, and yeah nothing has really changed, nothing's changed. So um it is for me, so I do breath work every day. I and part of that breath work I will i uh is exercise. So like I so running, swimming, that sort of thing. So I you know you've got a regular breath in and out sort of thing, and it patterns, and so that's what my breath work looks like. Uh I meditate every day, um, and it doesn't have to be a lot. Um I I've done journaling, I'm not awesome with it. It does I I still do it off and on. I'm not not regular with it, and I pray every day. Um what I tell the guys that you know when I have discussions with them about and the guys that have gone through it too, like I like the integration is important. And I tell them, just pick something, like pick one or two things that work for you. It doesn't have to be a whole bunch of stuff. Like if you start like I'm gonna do this and that and this and that, it it's too much. And you and personally don't end up doing any of it. Exactly. So find something that you like to do that works for you and stick with that. Do five minutes of that. Start off with five minutes, then go to ten minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:15

When uh you know when we get a new person into our program, we start off, you know, we just look at their current lifestyle, habits, routines, like basic shit. Like how much caffeine, nicotine, alcohol are you consuming, when do you wake up, when you go to bed. And we go we talk through all that and we come up with a plan that's usually like one thing to do differently to start with, or maybe two, like one in the morning, one at night. And people are almost always underwhelmed by where we start. They feel like it's like boring or like they're doing too little. But what I always tell them is like we're in the business of changes that actually last. And that means incremental things that you will actually stick to and stack and build on top of each other. So if you try to make 12 changes at once, it might work great for three days max, and then you're back to square one and worse because now you feel like shit because you committed to something and failed. So if we set the bar very low, low, it's very easy to crush it, and now you feel like you're winning and you continue in that direction. So I agree with you wholeheartedly on that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:20

It's like you have meditation, for example. Uh like start with five minutes. Start with two minutes. Like, do not start at 20, 25, 30 minutes. You'll never get there. You're gonna it it's too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:35

Other times where we start is not even, hey, let's add this other thing in, but uh, oh hey, you've been on your phone seven hours and 30 minutes daily average the past month. Like, maybe let's start there. Maybe let's get an app blocker to cut that out. And now all we need to do is just give you some better options in the morning or at night. So, hey, instead of just grabbing your phone and your morning coffee, there's a book where you walk your dog or you sit down to do some breath work or what have you. Yeah, that's I just bring that up because I had to talk yesterday. This dude is cup drinking nine cups of coffee a day, and his daily screen time average is like over seven hours. I'm like, yeah, bro, we're gonna we're gonna start here.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:13

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. So, yeah, that's what looks for me. Like for me, I um now also coming out of the medicine. My alcohol was not one of my intentions going down there, but I coming back, I had this very I I wanted no part of it. I was like, I'm not interested in it. I didn't even feel the desire to drink. Like for sure, yeah. And you were talking to my wife like Friday and Saturday, I wanted to drink. That's what I did. That's what I wanted to do with my friends, I wanted family, or like family, friends. Um, I wanted to drink, and I didn't do that anymore. I didn't want it anymore. And actually, so like I'm a year and four months, a little over a year and four months sober now. Amazing. Have a touch boo. Haven't touched weed. And like I would say that so we we both know, like uh you know, Ibogaine is very good at you know addiction killing addictions, mostly for opiates, but alcohol and other things is definitely part of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:16

Um that wasn't one of my attentions going down there, but uh, I I felt very strongly about it, and like part of my one of my attentions was being more engaged with my family, and and this is what integration also does is that you will have stuff that comes up months after your retreat that you didn't realize was there, for sure, and you'll have these realizations, you'll be like, oh you know, and that's what alcohol was for me. I I I realize I I was what I kept thinking to myself, why is this urge not to do this anymore so strong? And I I got to thinking about it, and like one of my intentions was that I wanted to be more present and engaged with my family, and then I got to thinking about that. Well, when I was drinking, I didn't want to be with my family. I wanted to be with my friends, or I'm in the basement, you know, leave me alone. Um and then of course the next day I'm hungover and I'm grouchy and I'm tired and I want to be left alone. I don't want to do anything. And then maybe I do it again that night, and then the next day I'm tired and grouchy and hung over. And like then it was kind of like a it was kind of a dawn on me, really. It just dawned on me, and I'm like I had a lot of feelings surrounding. I felt like a selfish asshole.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:38

Because of the drinking. Yeah. Yeah, totally, man. I um it made me feel like a terrible, horrible dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:50

Yeah. And I I feel like alcohol is one of the alcohol and screens, you know, scrolling are like some of the most normalized ways that we disconnect from ourselves. And so if you want to be present with your family, like you are literally not being present whatsoever if you have alcohol in your system, like it's just taking you a step back from the connection that you're supposed to be having with people.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:16

Yeah. And I man, you know, like I remember when I came back and I'm just I didn't want to drink. And I I will say that I didn't, but that being said, I never ever like said to myself I'm never drinking again. What I said to myself was I feel good the way things are right now. I'm just gonna go with this. That's not to say I'm never ever gonna drink again. I'm still saying that I'm never gonna drink again. Maybe I'll one day I'll decide to have a glass of wine. But I think I think right now as as I'm saying this, I feel I got a good thing going right now. I don't want to mess that up. I'm just gonna keep I'm just gonna stick with this and just see where where it goes. But I think also that being said, I think I have a lot more awareness out of why I did those things. And that's something to remember, like that's something I need to carry too. Like, why am I why did I choose the drink? What were my reasons for that? Yeah, absolutely. So that's something else that came out of you know things that come up, uh the work that comes up after after uh your retreat. Yeah, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:39

That was never one of your intentions, it was never something you clearly wanted. But I I feel like the medicine has a way of showing you things that are like it is an answer to your intention, but it's just not in a way that you ever would have expected. So just like we said a second ago, if you want to be more present with your family, you want to be a better father, husband, etc., the medicine's gonna show you what's out of alignment. And for you, the drinking was one of them. And uh yeah, I I think Ibogaine in particular, but plant medicine in general has a way of just the desire for that drops away over time. Because I'm sure you you felt this where the alcohol was like I I always talk about this. I don't think people have a drinking problem. I think you had a drinking solution to your anxiety problem, to your depression problem, to your self-worth problem, et cetera. And so the alcohol was helping you in that way. And then after the eyebain takes away some of those problems, or it helps you to work through them on your own, you just don't need the alcohol in the same way that you once did. So we're hitting it from like every angle of like the eyebogain objectively resetting receptors in your brain. You're you're finding better solutions to those problems and you're realizing the disconnection that came from it. So yeah, it makes sense to me, man, that you're not drinking anymore. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:00

So I mean, I think, you know, yeah, so that's kind of where we're sitting with that. But you know, like overall, I think um if I had to like summarize this whole thing, I think I believe that what we're doing here right now, like as far as like Project Live Spark and giving veterans and first responders an opportunity to be better versions of themselves, find their wellness. Um I think this you know, I think this will movement will happen here in Canada, like it has in the United States, where it it is veterans and it's first responders that lead the movement and and show people the you know it's like they say you you gotta be the you gotta be the change that you want to see in the world. So like the voices, you know, the more of us that that do this, the more the more people that we're able to help, the voices get louder, they get louder, they get louder, and pretty soon you cannot ignore it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:03

Absolutely, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:04

You know, and uh I think that right now um there are a lot of closed minds and a lot of closed ears when it go regarding this in Canada.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:15

Um, you know, we're we're we're trying to do work that that'll change that, but um there's gonna be it more and more we help ourselves to help others to to that end, uh where would you direct people to check out? Maybe they shouldn't make donations yet until you got this tax thing in hand. Well, but uh people who who want to support what you're doing, what could they do?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:39

Well, um well, I I can't say that you shouldn't donate. If they want to donate in the kindness of their hearts, that's always that's always fine. Uh we are working with we are working on a way to try to address that. So hopefully that comes that comes up. But I can't really say too much about that until it's it's in place, but we are trying to find a way to address that. Um, but in the meantime, you know, www.projectlifespark.org uh is our website. Um you can learn about more about our story and uh about plant medicine, and uh there is a place to donate there. Um we have partnered with uh a couple organizations that um have helped us out or that we're familiar with, that are very well known in this space. So um, you know, it I believe in doing sending people to places where you know clinically guided, it's uh done in a responsible means. Um and they're not just looking after your body, but they're looking after your soul and your mind at the same time. It's it's a holistic approach to these organizations that uh that they do, and I I I believe in that. I don't I I I had someone tell me, well, you don't need to send people to New Mexico to do this, and I'm like, well, if I want to do this the right way, I absolutely do.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:00

Yeah, dude. People have no business serving ayahuasca and Ibogaine and stuff like that in the US and in uh in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:07

It's sketchy. Yeah, I I if I want to do this the right way and have a nonprofit be above board, I 100% need to send people in Mexico. That's just that's the only option for me. Yeah, no, I'm I'm on the right. Until things change. Until things change right now, yeah. Right now, yeah, yeah. And I I you know, like, and I what is someone asked me one time, what's the end goal here? And I'm like, well, ideally, I think the end goal would be would be that my organization, there's no need for it anymore. Where these stuff is just the standard. This is the standard, that's that's the standard care. And that's not just not just for for veterans and first responders, but for all Canadians. Yeah, and that's the goal. Like we we collect data on everybody that goes through our program. They do pre-testing before the retreat, and then they do post-testing immediately after six months, and then a year out. And eventually the goal is to publish this data so that it could be no and it's it's it's observational, it's not like a real in-depth study, but it's a place where a conversation can start. Like, look, this is the this is what these are the results that we've got. I mean, I know my own personal results. I've seen it because I mean I had testing through OSI, so I know what mine looked like, but I'm just one of you know, I'm just one person. If I could multiply that effect over hundreds or thousands of people, eventually like you can see start to see trends. Like, maybe this is something we should look into, you know. One day, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:40

One day we shall get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:42

Yeah. So yeah, like that's the goal. Like when, you know, this this that this care is the standard of care, and not just for veterans and first responders, but for everybody because we all have trauma. We all have things.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:56

I agree, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:56

Whether it's a big T or a little T trauma, it's it's we all have it.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:00

I agree. All right, dude. We've been going two hours, so I do need to wrap this up. So we're gonna call it a day here. Thank you very much, Jeremy, for sharing your story and for doing the shit that you're doing with Project Life Spark. And I look forward to one day where you are uh drowning in donations and hooking people up with uh with our program to support the prep and the integration and sending them down to Mexico for the Ibogain and uh doing lots of more good things together. So thank you very much for your time, buddy. I appreciate you very much.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:29

Thanks, David. Appreciate it, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:34

All right, guys, that's a wrap for this one. Um, as you'll see with some of the other episodes coming out, depending on what order these get released in, I don't even know anymore. We've got a lot of stuff coming up talking about IBogain. I think IBogain's really having its moment in the sun right now. And I think it deserves it, obviously, because it's genuinely helping a lot of people and saving a lot of people's lives, like Jeremy here. So if you liked everything that he had to share, I would encourage you to go check out Project Life Spark, maybe make a donation to them. And perhaps if you feel like you need this medicine, you can reach out to them also in search of a scholarship, or you can reach out to us and we can see if you are a good fit for our microdosing program and our integration program. As always, thank you so much for listening to these podcasts. If you like what you're hearing here, if you feel like you're getting some value out of it, the least that you can do is hit subscribe on YouTube, leave a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share it with a friend who you think needs to hear these messages. Until next time, thank you very much for being here. God bless you. I'll see you soon.