Cheeky Half Episode (40): AI is not just a tool. It's a reflection of who we are.

KG has spent considerable time carefully avoiding the AI conversation on Social Media. His reward for finally joining that conversation is also our reward - a 'hot take' that turns out to be much more interesting than either the unreflective panic or unquestioned evangelism the hosts have frequently encountered on this topic.

Join Paul & KG as they follow that thread in this Cheeky Half episode. And if you haven't yet listened to their conversation with Dr. Jay Spence in Episode 6.02, "Is AI coming for our brains?!?!", it makes a good companion listen.

Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on any further explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.

If you are interested in a written reflection of this discussion and its themes, you can find our brief article here. 

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Or talk to us through either of the options below.

Email: askus@leadershipdecanted.com 

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Disagree or agree with anything we've said? How wrong are we?!? Are there any leadership topics you'd like us to discuss, or people you'd like us to talk to? Maybe you'd like to recommend a favourite wine!

Whatever tickles your fancy, we'd love to hear from you!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And what is AI? I'm very, very tired. Welcome to the Leadership Decanted, our cheeky half edition, where we dare to share unfinished thoughts and ideas around some potentially thorny leadership questions. And even though KG and I can't always be in the same room, we still do this over a glass of our favorite beverage. KG! Oh, what's happening, man? Uh, good to see you. Good to see you. It's uh it's been a whirlwind a couple of weeks, as you know.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Oh man, I cannot even imagine your world, actually. Welcome to this uh I wouldn't call it calming, but you know, it's it probably just a little bit of a respite from what's been happening in your broader world.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

That's right. For those who are just curious, we're not gonna go into it, but I have just come out the other side of a family wedding and it was awesome and lovely. I'm very, very tired. Jesus. That's the that's the moral of the story. It's tiring. Yeah, it was a beautiful time, beautiful time, but yeah, I'm kind of like all right, so that's what that's where I am, in case people are curious. Speaking of curious, I'm really curious, KG, because you did something that was somehow or somewhat a little out of character, uh, you know, for a while. Yes. And you actually you actually went and posted on LinkedIn. I thought a very interesting, thought-provoking post on AI. And interestingly, you you even you even opened the post by saying, I've purposely avoided posting about AI. So I'm really curious uh as to you know what compelled you, what were the circumstances, and what is the post about?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, look, this was an interesting poll, and it's uh it should probably take you back to like you said, why and why now. I was lucky enough to be invited to do some guest speaking and kind of a fireside chat to an automation summit, if you can imagine that. So for those who don't know, I still live in the world of technology, and this is test automation and IT stuff. So it was a seminar and you know, lots of people, and the topic of the event was generally AI. So even though our fireside chat was lots of different things about, you know, lots of technology aspects, AI is kind of permeated through all the conversations. Center stage. Center stage.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

As as it has been for most of the uh conferences and conversations for the past two years, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yes, yes, and that's why I avoided it because I thought I'm I'm kind of over it and over, you know, hearing about it. And I live in the technology world and and I know that it is part of our day-to-day, but you know, I'm I'm kind of uh done with all of the conversation. So when we had this uh fireside chat, we got asked lots of questions, we asked each other questions, and it was you know, it was it was great, but a lot of the questions centered around things like, is AI going to basically take my job? Is it as transformational as people think? And what is your view on AI and at the time? I am sure I said some words, but I don't remember them much. Just kind of, you know, said an answer. People were nodding and, you know, giving a some smile, some look bewildered, and I think, okay. But then later, as I was talking to the young lady who was involved in the fireside chat, it reminded me my true sense of AI has a perspective, and it's probably only crystallized after that conversation. Because you know how sometimes you kind of look back and you go, Yeah, well, you know, really what I'm thinking is that AI is this, and that's what the post was about.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Right. And what is AI?

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Well, you know, I I I think it's gonna be a lot of things for a lot of people. And uh I think, you know, we've even had uh guests on the main podcast that have uh started to really use it in contexts that have been imaginative and and really, you know, stretching the boundaries of helping people out with the use of AI, but with people involved. And and some of those things are really extraordinary. And I think we see it in medicine and I think we see it in all kinds of places. But really, if you break it down, it is just another tool. And that's my view, is that it's much simpler than we're giving it a lot of airtime. And I think it is incredible. I'm not taking away from uh the opportunity. Um, it's it's one of the tools of a lifetime. You know, it's it's it's incredible, but it is one of those things that we have to use it as professionals, as human beings, as people who can utilize tools in the right way. That's what AI is to me, is it's just another tool. And if we want to take advantage of it, we can use it for good, or we can use it to be lazy, or we can use it to do whatever we want. But it is one of those tools that I think if we give it an opportunity, it'll be helpful. But will it take over for what you do, Paul? No, no, no. It can probably say some of the words that you would, but it doesn't have the insights that you do, it doesn't have the context that you do, it doesn't have the emotional intelligence that you do. And so I think we we have to really be careful with how much credit we give it, because it is still part of our toolkit. And the more creative and more uh experienced we are, the better tool it will become. But that's my thinking.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, right. Now I'm going to uh quote somebody, and you're gonna tell me what you think of that quote. Oh, okay. Yes. Now you may recognize this quote, I don't know. Something like this AI has become one of many tools that help reflect who we are. Not one that replaces us. If someone wants shortcuts, AI will be happy to provide them. True. But if someone wants to learn, think deeply, refine ideas, and create something meaningful, you can help accelerate that too. So now if you recognize that quote, KG.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

I happen to recognize that quote. And the funny thing about that, and in this post in general, and I'll I'll confess, is I I did this post uh pretty late at night, and I thought, oh, I won't post it now because you know it's it's late and you know, your eyes kind of go blurry. And and I said, Oh, I'll just schedule it for the next morning, but I will come back in the morning and you know, work it and refine it and make it better. Well, I got up in the morning, I refined it, I took out this and I added these things. And unfortunately, I did not know that if you get rid of that scheduling, but you have not saved it, it goes out anyway. So I thought I I thought because I canceled the schedule when I woke up in the morning. So what I'm trying to say is that quote would have would have stayed, but most of the other rest of the post I had reworked and I had changed the beginning and and then the next thing I know, I see this notification says uh your post is live.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

I was like, but but but I I haven't I haven't finished it. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

In the quote itself, in the content itself, is that you say that it's become one of the many tools that help reflect who we are. It's a very simple sentence, KG, but I think it's quite a profound meaning. It's one of the many tools that help reflect who we are. A lot of the discourse around AI is about how AI is somehow sort of some enhancement, some cybernetic brain that enhances us. But you're saying here, at least whether or not you said it you said it intentionally, is AI is a mirror.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

AI is a mirror. And I think that is really fascinating. Do you have any more thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Yeah, what I was thinking there is that if we are, I mean, I just look at the people that we have become and the people that we are in life. If you are doing things, then AI helps you do those things in a more refined way. And and and you can use it to bounce off ideas and you can use it as the way to understand some of the thinking that you may have had, but not been able to articulate. And that's why I think it's a good reflection of who we are. If we're using it the way that I'm gonna say I use it, which is I would never uh expect it to know how to speak like me. I never expect that. We can train it and I give it some examples of my writing, but it's you know matter how much I give it, it doesn't do the things that I would do in the way that I would do it. And I I realize that, but it does a great job of giving me things back and um making sure that I have different ideas and I think, oh, that's a good idea. And oh yeah, I would have said it a different way, but these are things that I can use to structure different conversations or presentations or whatever they are. So I think it is a great reflection of who we are if you use it in a partnership way, if we if you use it in a in a way that doesn't try to I know that you know people have been accused of uh what they call AI slop, you know, just you know, letting you know AI write for them and it's a whole bunch of generic stuff. And I think that can happen as well, but that may be a reflection of that person's where they are at the time, which means I I don't want to think through it, I want to let AI do it, which again is uh to me is a reflection of where they are. Uh, but I think if we're in a uh in a in a mode where we want to think deeply, AI can help us think even more deeply if we give it enough prompting, if we give it enough information, and it can really help us keep going into that area, research all of those things. So I think it is a good opportunity for us, but not replace us and certainly not do the things that you do best and I do best.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

And so how do you square that, KG, with the experience of some who have supposedly lost their jobs to AI, where they have literally been replaced by a lahaj language model for certain tasks. What what is the uh position there for in terms of AI for you?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

This is this is a little tricky, right? Because you and I have been in the corporate wheel for a long time, right? So I I know that a lot of the headline says that uh people are being laid off because of AI. But I've been around for a bit of time, and every single year there's lots of layoffs every single year. And some companies do it annually, and it's just a part of their cycle, right? And they blame something every single year. So I don't suspect that the layoff because of AI is truly a layoff because of AI. I I think in many cases it's part of the way companies ebb and flow like they always have. That's my suspicion, but I I won't say that definitively. But there there is some uh I think there is some uh labeling uh that these happen because of AI, where it it may not be. Yes, yes, because last year there was uh 10,000 layoffs and they had to label it something. So they said it was because of the economy. And that may be true, but it you know, the the same amount happened this year, you know. So those are just again my my thinking. Because I know the younger generation, there's quite a few people who don't feel that they're gonna get the opportunities they would have because AI exists. And I think there's some truth to that, right? There's there's some there's some truth to that, but there's also some opportunity in that, in that where the clerical opportunities may not exist because there was a whole team of people doing writing and and things like that, and then AI can assist that and make accelerate the writing. There's some truth, right? Because you may not need three people, you may only need one person, and and that person can write uh more prolifically. But again, that's an opportunity because the people who are really skilled at writing write more efficiently with AI. And I don't think that that means the other jobs can uh go away completely. It just means they have other opportunities or their opportunities in other places. I don't know if there's an exact match, but I think it's like most technology advances, it makes some things less uh there's less of those, and then there's more of other stuff. So I think we should be looking for the what else would I be doing or can be doing because AI exists for those things that were mundane, which is where I really would put the opportunity in the world of AI.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, interesting. It's interesting. And let me close then, KG, with another quote, if I may. The real opportunity, and this speaks to what you were just saying. The real opportunity isn't to stop developing ourselves because AI exists, it's probably the opposite. The more depth, curiosity, creativity, and judgment we develop, the more powerful this tool becomes in our hands. That is a really interesting way of ending that post. Is that what you were saying just now? That opportunity, that possibility. There has to be, if you like, a parallel process because this this thing is going to develop, this technology develops as they all do. Yeah. If we don't develop ourselves, then there you feel might be maybe the missed opportunity or I don't know, the the panic that people have about what AI may or may not do happens in the gap between its own development and our development.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

That's it. That's it. If we're if we continue to be curious and continue to learn and continue, and I know that sounds a bit tried, the reality is that it does become an opportunity, and I think we can wield it in whatever fashion we want. And I think I I wrote this in my book, and I just put it in this post as a as an aside as well. And it was about the uh surgeon, right? And a skilled surgeon with the right set of tools is going to do amazing things, can be life-changing, can change lives, can save lives, can do so, so much. But give the same exact tools, the scalpel, all those kind of same things to someone less experienced, and you may not get the same outcome. And I think that's where we really need to build our own skills. You know, continue your learning, continue your creativity, continue the things that will make you uh better. And then you just grab uh the best set of tools around you, which AI may or may not be one of them. You know, there may be other tools that you see as the best accentuation of what you do or extension of what you do. And uh that's where I think we are, and that's where I think there's still opportunity. Let's go do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Man, that's uh so that's our hot take on AI. This is really this is really timely, KG, because I had a conversation just this week. One of our listeners just mentioned that you guys can't be ignoring AI. Surely it's time. And I did say to them, hey, we just had a just a couple of episodes. Yeah, so you know, Jake Spence, uh, who is just deep, deep in AI, go listen to that. They hadn't reached uh arrived at that point yet. But now this conversation as well, clearly it's part of the it's part of the public discourse now. Yeah, we can't ignore it. But to your first point, oh, it's been done to death already. It's everywhere. So I'm I welcome, I welcome leadership decanted being a different space, a different discourse, a different set of conversations. Listeners, if you agree with us, if you prefer for us to not necessarily be AI free, an AI free zone, but maybe, you know, not not so AI heavy as many of the other conversations are. Let us know. Let us know what you think. What would what do you want to know? Where do you think AI sits for you and your leadership practice? Very interested to understand what that looks like for you.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah, there is another conversation at another time where um we can talk about uh, you know, where it does fit into the interpersonal relationship between leaders and the technology. So there's something there. So I had it. Yeah, I had a a great conversation with um a couple of leaders the other day. And wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

All right. Okay. Maybe we should come on.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Edgie. Thanks so much for sharing uh your your uh your thoughts behind that post. I I did find it very thought-provoking and quite resonant. So good on you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Thank you. And uh listeners, as Paul said, love to hear from you, love to know what's happening in your world. And uh if you found this useful, let us know as well. So with that, I think we can say launcher.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

That is our cheeky half episode. Please let us know what you think, whether you'd like us to expand on any of these topics in our main episodes, or any other comment you might have. You can reach us on askus at leadership tocanton.com. That's ASKUS at leadershipdocanton.com. You can also leave your comments for each of our episodes on our website at leadershipdocanton.com. Thanks for listening.