Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Supporting Survivors
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Dr. Rossana Sida joins me for a conversation about her work with survivors and those who care for them. We discuss common challenges of recovery, options for those seeking help, language to use with recovering partners, and navigating ongoing consent. You are never alone in the continuing work of healing and recovery. Whether you are a survivor, in a relationship with one, or desire to understand how to best care for someone else, you’ll find some tools here for healing and hope.
Dr. Rossana Sida is an AASECT Certified Sex Therapist and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in sex and relationships with a special interest in the intersection of female sexuality and sexual abuse.
Learn more about Rossana’s work:
www.togethernesstherapy.com
Learn more about these topics
Pleasure after trauma
Our bodies and trauma
Painful Sex
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Because even if you've processed it from life, something you process once in your life and oh done, it's like it never happened. Like that's not how the work is.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. This is Cindy Sharkey, your host. I'm delighted you're joining me for this really important conversation today. My guest is Dr. Rosanna Ceda, an asex certified sex therapist and licensed marriage and family therapist. She's taken a special interest in the intersection of female sexuality and sexual abuse, working one-on-one with clients at her group practice in Los Angeles called Togetherness Therapy. Dr. Ceta, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Would you share a little bit about how you came into this work, why this specific specialty, and just a little bit about your story?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I um so I was previously in the fashion industry in retail, and I wanted a job that would kind of, you know, feed my soul more, something that would make more of a difference. And so I didn't really know what that was, but I got myself into volunteering with a company called Strength United, and they provide rape crisis counseling, and they have a rape crisis center where survivors go for their rape kit, meaning interview with the police and examination by the nurse, that whole thing. And so my job as a volunteer was what's called an accompaniment person. I simply just sat there with the survivor. And so I was not a therapist at the time, no training. That was not my job. It was just sitting there. Do you need some water? Here's what's going to happen next. Here's the paperwork. Let me help you fill it out. That's that simple thing. But in that experience, I saw so much of, you know, how they're treated, how sometimes the system can be re-traumatizing, and how parents uh don't often react the best. A lot of blame from parents. You know, it in this moment, I was there the night of. So there's a lot of emotions at play. Um, self-blame, all this. And so after, you know, a handful of times of hearing things like, I told you not to wear that skirt, for example. I really, really, really, really wanted to speak up and wanted to say something. And I, and that was not a place I could. That was not my job. And so I guess I I sort of made it my job where we shed light on the realities of what happened and get away from the blame.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's so important. And you and I know the statistics are just staggering. You know, the amount of people that have experienced some kind of sexual trauma. The studies show that it's so under-reported that the statistics aren't even really accurate. There's so much under-reported child sexual abuse and sexual assault and rape. This is why I wanted to have you on the show to have this kind of conversation to talk a little bit about these kind of themes that you heard from the victims, you know, the things that they said out loud. I think it would be helpful for listeners, you know, to hear that if they've experienced that, or their dearest friend has, or their sister, or what whatever it may be, you know, the more I think you're right, we talk out loud about where we can go in our heads and also what we can hear from others that is not uh healthy, nor moving us towards healing. So you mentioned some of the things that are said about what people are wearing or self-blame. Self-blame tends to be such a big issue, is it not? It's huge. It's I mean, it's essentially the issue. Uh and why is it do you think that we go there, that we go there? Why is it?
SPEAKER_01I mean the short answer uh immediately I want to say it's control. Because when you when you're in a situation or you you were put in a situation that you had no control over, um you you grasp for that. It's safer. It's much safer and comforting to think I could have, I should have, if only I said did X, Y, and Z, than to say sometimes bad things happen to good people. That's a scary thought. I mean, it's true, bad things happen to good people all the time, but it's really scary to think that you don't have control on that sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, that that makes sense, and also sometimes it's confusing.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, being there the night of or day of, the majority of assault cases are someone you know. It is not like some guy jumping out of the bushes, like that's really rare. It is someone close to you, and so that is really hard to grapple with too, because then it's like, well, I've known this person my whole life. So I and I know they're a good person. So I must have done something, led them on. I must have done something.
SPEAKER_00Wow. And I think that's important for parents listening to hear that, and that's a whole nother conversation, of course, but to remember that, like you're saying, most cases are with someone that the person knows. And I think sometimes the issue becomes, you know, some of that disbelief on the part of your people, yourself, right? Like you can't believe this person you knew or trusted or what have you would do this, you know, to you. And then also there's the whole community around you, and often the disbelieving from them, and that that can be so damaging on top of everything else. When you were there doing the the volunteer work, what would be two or three things just from that, ex all those experiences that you might give to someone, you know, to have in our memory if we were to accompany someone or someone would should come to us, let's give language to to what would be the things that we would want to say that would be nourishing or at least uh not damaging in that situation.
SPEAKER_01I mean, from a less therapeutic but forensic standpoint, one of the first things I learned is you don't damage the evidence. So, for example, if something just happened, a glass of water is not what they need because you may need some of the DNA or tissues in their mouth. So you just I mean, you get them to to the authorities or to a hospital who can take care of them. But beyond that, more um, you know, emotional based, it it is not helpful for you to downplay it, I guess is what I'm thinking about, which a lot of people did. Oh, you know, it was just a kiss, it was just a kiss, and you know, it was just this one time, or maybe, maybe he or she was confused, maybe did you do this in the questioning? Well, did this happen or did this happen? You as a support person are not the one who needs to be gathering the information. It's more important for you to focus on what the impact was. So it's not for you to say, oh, it was just a caress instead of a full-on violent episode, and and that is good or bad. It's not for you to assess or judge that. It is for you only to sit there and support what do you need? How are you feeling? If you need to cry, cry, please cry, please, you know, feel comfortable with me to do that.
SPEAKER_00If you're mad, yeah, get mad, you know. So allow for emotions, yes. Don't minimize the trauma, don't don't attach what degree or uh what kind of a big deal it is or isn't, that that's not for you to do, right? So then let's talk about people who do experience trauma and didn't come in and report. I I often talk to people, as I'm sure you do, that have never told anybody. Oh, that's the majority, vast majority. That's the vast majority. I'm just repeating you because I know this to be true, but people do not understand that. So I often will have women say this is the issue with sex, and really the issue is not with sex, the issue is with the unprocessed trauma. Such a big, big, heavy off, which makes sense, an off, sexual off, right? The people you know who haven't chosen to process the trauma, yeah. What what challenges do you think they face? So they come to you saying, I've never talked to anybody about this. What are one or two things that that are really pretty pretty common that you see that are challenging in that situation? Avoidance.
SPEAKER_01So meaning they come because they say, Hey, I want to have sex or I'm not enjoying sex, maybe I have painful sex, all kinds of issues related to to sex. Um, or I I don't trust, for example, men anymore, things things like that. I feel degraded by sex. I can go on and on. This is what they say. And then when I suggest working on the trauma, almost always they are instantly like, yes, let's go this route. But it's once we start working on it that you got get a lot of avoidance or resistance, where um, you know, they just don't want to think about it. And I don't blame them. It's so hard. And it really feels like if you go through it again, you'll experience all the emotions again. And why would they want to do that? And they're not wrong. We do go through it and they do experience some of the emotions again, and a lot comes up, and it is really hard work, it's really hard before it gets easier.
SPEAKER_00Most things that are hard work work work that way, but in this situation, especially, I would think. Yeah, to answer your question, avoidance is the number one challenge. And I'm thinking about, you know, the people that come in who feel like they have processed their trauma. So I get this situation a lot. Well, they say, well, I've I dealt with that. And yet the challenges are still there. A lot of times what I gather from women is that the painful sex often can be a result of tension. Um, do you find that to be true? Yes, definitely. Because let's think about it, right? If we've had a trauma, even though we've worked through it, our body and our mind still remember the trauma. And I think that we can, you know, that we talked about this in an episode with um Aurora Allen about embodiment and how we our bodies do keep the score and the memories, right, within our bodies. And so I think painful sex is an area where I often ask that question, like, has there been any kind of trauma? Right off the bat, what are the things that are triggering you and are they related to even a trauma you feel like you've processed? So, what what kind of challenges do you work through with clients who who do feel like they've worked through their trauma outside of painful sex, which is a big one, frankly, a huge one?
SPEAKER_01Survivors have a lot of various triggers in their sex life. As you're saying, sometimes it is painful sex, sometimes it's simply I don't desire anymore. But why would you if every time you're there or after you cry, you know? Why would you if you're kind of disconnecting or disassociating during it? That's not pleasurable. So why would why would you desire it? And as you're saying about the the body, my work kind of splits into two. It's like, let's process the trauma. And even if they say, hey, I've processed it, I go, like, okay, tell me what's happened, what have you done, what have you learned? Where are there still some points you'd like to work through? And we explore those. Because even if you've processed the trauma, it's not something you process once in your life and oh, done. It's like it never happened. Like that's not that's not how the work is. You know, it is it still comes up. It may come up at different um stages of your life in different ways. And it can come up with different partners in different ways. And so if you processed it, I believe you, but that doesn't mean you're done processing it. Let's keep going.
SPEAKER_00Yes, let's keep going because the triggers can be many. Like you said, it's different things can come up with different partners, with different times in our lives, different ages that we're at, or our children are at. You know, these kinds of things, as much as we don't we don't think about it just on the surface, they they do, our mind engages with that, and those things can trigger again all the hard things in our life, but especially this. It's they're like an ongoing conversation that we want to continue to have with ourselves.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, whether you process it privately, um, you know, through self-help books or through therapy, whatever, through exercise, whatever helps you, there is often more to be done and sometimes different areas. So you can process it cognitively. So, like the things, the way you think about what happened, and you can process it through the body, as you mentioned. So, what are the subtle cues that your body is giving you when you're physically intimate with another person? Do you shudder or wince when someone touches the back of your neck, for example? What work do you have to do there?
SPEAKER_00What's what's happening there? I've I've worked with a woman about this issue of what I we call it spectatoring, but it's like it's watching, but not really and feeling like you're like above it. Kind of out of your body. Yeah, out of your body. I think that's a common situation that that I hear from women. Very common. Almost disconnecting, you know, from their body. You know, that that's pretty much in all the studies and research that that's a common trauma response, right? It's very common for trauma.
SPEAKER_01It's also really common for anxiety, but yes, trauma for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They talk a lot about how to set boundaries to keep them in their window of tolerance, their their place of feeling safe. I think safety is huge in this conversation, right? You know, if we don't feel safe, it's really hard to engage and also be sensual and feel, right? And so I think about victims and survivors and then how they come to feeling safe again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And safe is an interesting word, meaning my clients have struggled with it. So let's use the example I just said. Um, my partner touches the back of my neck and I tense up. And so they know in their mind that they are safe. Been with this partner 10 years. They know that they are safe. But so where's the disconnect between your mind and your body, what your body is telling you? What is it that is feeling unsafe? It's not the partner that's feeling unsafe. Maybe they're feeling out of control, or maybe it's just maybe just this part of their neck or the pressure that is put on their neck, or like maybe there's something we can fine-tune or figure out there. So there's a lot of different routes to processing.
SPEAKER_00Something that came up in the community when I asked if they had questions for this conversation was how do I communicate about past trauma? Do you have a little a few little language around that that you could provide?
SPEAKER_01So honestly, I think it's really individual-based how open they are with their story, um, how much it affects them now. Because sometimes it affects everything. It's like, don't hold my hand, you know, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it comes up rarely. It's definitely individual based on when to tell. Um, how to tell. Some specific lane language would might be, hey, so you know, we've been falling around a little bit. I just want to let you know that um I had some things happen to me that make sex a little bit uncomfortable, or um, I don't know. It's it's it's difficult for me. I just wanted to tell you.
SPEAKER_00And then see see what response you get.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, especially when you're dating, I do think that's important. Let it land, see what happens, see what questions are coming up, because it gives you a lot of information.
SPEAKER_00About a partner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right, right there and then. Gives you a lot of information. Now, the other thing we talk about is when they start to ask detailed questions. Again, I'll go back to what I said before about not needing to know the the details, but the impact. So I use that language a lot with clients about like it's up to you. If you want to share the details, share the details. It's your story. If you do not, however, you don't have to. You say it was a really big deal to me, or it changed my life a lot. You know, before I was this way and now I am this way. Before I thought dating should be like this, but now I feel like it is this. Tell how it's changed you, because that's that's actually what's important.
SPEAKER_00Good language around that and the reminder that it is your choice, what you what you choose to share and how you choose to share it. And I think another thing that came in as I asked the community was questions around that need for continual consent and how difficult that is to ask for, uh, have to repeat, and feeling like it's a lot to ask of somebody. I understand that. And I feel like people have so little practice with consent that that it makes it difficult, especially in this situation.
SPEAKER_01Especially in this situation. Consent is extremely important. And also taking the no, taking any quote unquote rejection, how you take that is important because of course I have to feel comfortable to tell you no if I'm gonna be honest, if I'm gonna be truthful. Yeah, it is difficult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had several messages about it's so hard. It's so hard to feel like it's a lot to ask of somebody, you know, or that that I need constant reassurance to revisit consent. And that needs to be okay. Sometimes partners can get their feelings hurt, they can't handle or not used to or don't have any experience with that kind of consent.
SPEAKER_01A few, you know, tips there are again, have the conversation on a day where you are not not in the moment. So not the conversation about consent doesn't happen while you're in the bedroom. It happens while you're out walking your dog together. That's when it needs to happen. So that the person is fully present and able to listen. You know, if your partner is half naked and having this conversation, they're like, huh? What? What are you talking about? Why did we yesterday and not today? It's very confusing and very vulnerable for them, obviously for the survivor too, but for them too. So this conversation needs to happen on a sunny day when you can have a real conversation. Additionally, there are different ways to communicate consent, but those need to be expressed explicitly before. So, for example, I've heard partners say, like, it's not sexy kind of thing to get a verbal yes. So let's make it sexy. If you have something you like to hear that makes it a yes, like you know, I can't wait till you're inside of me, for example, like something I want you, something like this. If you discuss ahead of time, when I say this, that means that's my yes, that's my absolutely, then that's it. Or you can have codes. When I kiss your ear, that means I'm I'm in it. When I grab your hair, that means let's do this, you know? This is a yes, this is a yes, this is our signal. But again, these have to be discussed ahead of time because I just want to be clear, it's not I grab your hair, that means yes if I didn't say that ahead of time. That does not mean yes, that means I like to make out, right? Right. But if you discuss it ahead of time and kind of make the rules, make the rules around it, then it can still be spontaneous and sexy.
SPEAKER_00Well, and on this podcast, communication is sexy, so and ongoing consent is is sexy. And I do think that we need more practice around how to say stop, how to say wait, how to say I need a little more time here. You know, I need a little more time to decide if I can move forward. Can you just hold me? I do want to be held. Give me a minute and I will let you know yes or no. You know, I mean, this kind of language is so difficult for people because there's no practice around it. And yet this is taking care of yourself.
SPEAKER_01You're reminding me, one of my clients once told me that what she says is, I'm not feeling quite myself right now. Can I have a minute? And I just loved it so much. I'm not feeling quite myself, is I don't know. I just love that. I think it's really easy to understand, feels easier to accept as the partner.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because I'm thinking oftentimes partners don't know what to say, do, how to handle it, how to not take things personally. And like you said, back a little ways, you will learn a lot about a partner by how they do respond, learn the language of this in wanting to care for you and for you to feel safe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good point. It's not all it's not that they just have to have the skills right there and then, but that they have to be willing to learn. And educating yourself as a partner is key on trauma, possibly post-traumatic stress disorder. You can educate yourself on survivors of sexual assault. So many of the things that partners personalize are classic symptoms, like crying after sex, or all of a sudden the partner is really irritable after or during the shutdown. I've heard uh her body's like a board, like she's really into it. But as soon as intercourse happens, she stiffens up like a board. And they really personalize these things, like I'm gross, they're not attracted to me, et cetera, et cetera. They don't like sex.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then it comes down to they don't like me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's so important for the conversations to happen, and even as difficult as it may feel at the start, that is how you're going to be able to come to a place of safety and understanding with a partner. I think it would be hard sometimes as a survivor to feel like you have to take care of the partner your partner too. Yeah. And I I guess I want to say, you know, I'm not a therapist. This is your this is what you do, but my my gut tells me to think of it in a way of not having to take care of them so much, but to communicate. If you are into them, if you do care about them, if you do want to pursue a future with them, then they are worth the conversations to happen, to connect.
SPEAKER_01To connect and to be understood. For us to be understood by someone else is the goal, right? That's the goal. And so, yeah, it is kind of a mindset shift of oh, I have to teach my partner everything versus no, I want them to understand me. And so I'm going to share, I'm gonna teach because I want to be understood. So just as much for you as it is for them. It's for the couple essentially.
SPEAKER_00That's a good pivot, you know, to think of it in that in that way. Like you're saying, it's a matter of wanting to be understood and wanting to connect, and what are the steps I can take to do that? I can't control everything, I can't control how they receive everything, but I can communicate what's happening with me so that they understand me. There's a lot to this conversation. Absolutely, absolutely. And we're not trying to, listeners, you know, we're not trying to say, like in five steps, here we are at all. I'm just really wanting to open the conversation and give some language around it for those who are dealing with it and and for those who are partnered, you know, and interacting with a partner and trying to figure out how to navigate this. And so often in the dark, so to speak, meaning sometimes there's not good, you know, perception and perspective. Lonely in the dark. And it's lonely in the dark. Yes, it is. So I guess that's our our encouragement today is to if you have experienced uh trauma that there is there, there is help and there is hope. And you can get help and hope if you bring it in the light. You don't have to do it alone. And you work in Los Angeles, Dr. Ceta. So are there programs in Los Angeles or California that you're familiar with that you want to just kind of share with the community?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Um, so California Victims Compensation Board is a program that if you have a police report or if you are willing to make a police report, they'll pay for your therapy. So that's awesome. Many states have these kind of things, but that is a resource I do really like to shut out because I mean, who doesn't like free therapy, right? Um, among other things, if you had to move your home, relocate for any reasons, any costs that were inferred, they will reimburse you for. So that's something to look up in California or in your state. And of course, private practice therapists, there are many therapists or agencies out there. Again, the one I worked for was called Strength United. That's in Los Angeles as well. There's many good ones, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there are resources out there. There is a victim assistance program as well when you go in and need to file a report, even if it is not like maybe you're listening, you're thinking, this happened a year ago, this happened two years ago. You can contact a victim assistance program. And just like Dr. Cedas sat as a volunteer, these people will go with you as you make your report so that you're not alone. It's just very helpful to have someone with you that's there for you. So tell people how they can find your work and find you, and especially if they live in the Los Angeles area.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you can find me on togethernesstherapy.com or Instagram at Togethernest Therapy. My name's Dr. Rosanna Cita. Obviously, I am around.
SPEAKER_00Good. We have a practice, a pleasure practice on this podcast where we're focusing on what brings us pleasure day to day, what what uh makes us stop and just take delight. And I wondered if you might share something that delights you day to day.
SPEAKER_01Two things instantly come up for me. One is my one and a half year old daughter, who is a joy. She's such a pleasure. And I'm one of those people that um wasn't sure if I wanted children until like a year before I got pregnant. So it's like baffling to me how much joy I get from her. Like I did not, I just did not expect it. It's amazing. And then the other thing is ice cream. I have ice cream every day, just a little bit, but I love it so much. It makes me happy.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Thanks for thanks for sharing that. And thanks for being with us today on the show. Thank you so much. And listeners, if you have listened today and have just been prompted to possibly deal with a trauma that's happened to you, again, I just want to encourage you that there is there is help and there is hope. Might I just give you permission to grab onto that. And for those of you who have worked through your trauma and you still struggle or have triggers or see now that this is an ongoing work and growth that you'll be doing, like it is for all of us with different things. Again, just give yourself permission to get the help that you need. So much is out there now and available to you. And I want to encourage you in that. Because truly, I think as we do these things, big and small, we'll learn to give ourselves permission for pleasure.
