Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Communication, Couples and Sex (Part One)
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Talking about sex with a partner can feel awkward and scary. Shame, fearing rejection and hurt feelings - these can be huge roadblocks to honest communication in this area of a relationship. Meygan Caston, co-founder of Marriage365, joins me for a discussion packed with practical communication tips, ways to break down barriers and conversation starters galore.
Learn more about Marriage365.
Learn more on these topics:
Talking with a partner about sex
When a partner wants to try something new
Want to have better sex? Ask these questions!
Sexual Communication
Talking about sex (when things aren't great)
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This is Permission for Pleasure, and I'm your host, Cindy Sharkey. As a registered nurse and educator for over 30 years, I've seen the real need to break the silence surrounding sex, especially for women. This podcast is about opening doors to healthy conversations about sex. What I've found is that when women have comprehensive education about sex, their self-confidence soars. And when that happens, women can truly express experience and enjoy their sexuality. They give themselves permission for pleasure. Welcome to Permission for Pleasure, the podcast. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host, and I'm delighted that you're here and joining me for this episode. Today's topic is healthy conversations, really specifically talking about how we can talk to partners about sex and our sex life. And today I have a fabulous guest with me, Megan Kasten, who is the co-founder of Marriage 365. She has a lot of experience coaching couples. Megan, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01Megan loves helping people become the healthiest version of themselves. And I have really seen her doing that over these years. She, with Marriage 365, they reach three million people around the world each week with their books, social media, online courses, retreats, and most importantly, their membership. She's been married for 17 years, has two kids, and she lives in Southern California. So glad you're here.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Cindy. Looking forward to it. And I love being able to talk about a subject that, as you know, isn't talked about enough in a healthy way.
SPEAKER_01I would love for you to tell the listeners just a the short version of why you started Marriage 365 with your husband, Casey.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So we, like everybody, uh felt that love would be enough to keep us together and keep us happy. So we got married. By the way, dating and engagement was fun and great and easy, and we're like, let's just do this forever. So when we said I do and exchange vows, we quickly realized we were not equipped to be married. We had no tools, we weren't great communicators, we weren't talking about sex and we had in-law issues, debt, we struggled. And by year three, we were heading towards divorce. And both of us came from divorced families. We knew that's what we didn't want, but somehow we were following in their footsteps. And I remember going to my first therapy session alone because my husband refused to go with me. And I babbled on for 40 minutes, complaining about how all our marriage problems were his fault. I was not the problem. And my counselor, so wonderfully and boldly and in love, said to me, You know, you have two options. I can be your safe person, and you can come here and you can complain about your husband, and I will validate you and I will listen and I will encourage you, or I can get you healthy. I can teach you relationship tools and techniques that can actually influence your husband and maybe even turn things around. You could probably guess which option I chose. I chose option number two. I'm so glad I did. And for 13 months on my own, I worked on myself and she really guided me through that. I changed everything about my life. I created boundaries, I apologized to my husband, I forgave him, even though he wasn't even asking for my forgiveness. I dealt with some childhood trauma that had been in the past that had been kind of creeping back up. And I just really became a healthier me. And like I said, 13 months later, my husband fell to his knees one day and said, Whatever you're doing, I want, I need. And then we ended up turning our marriage around. And so as we were repairing our marriage, we realized quickly that there weren't a lot of great resources. This was also way before social media and things like that, too. So keep that in mind. That's you can kind of date me and how old I am, right? Um, but I think that that was really discouraging because we thought, gosh, I mean, there's got to be more out there than than what's than what it is. Either it was really watered down material and resources, or it was, I would say, very therapeutic or even like more so like religious, which that's not bad, but there were so many platitudes that were set in the books and the courses that we tried to take. And we just felt like, gosh, we need something more. So honestly, we kind of created something out of our own healing. And then everyone that knew us said, you need to help other people. And so we started Marriage 365 back in 2013. Just my husband and I, and now we have a staff of yeah, 17. And like you said, we reach people I know all around the world every day. And I think what's really important for people listening to know that there's this myth out there about marriage and relationships that it takes two people. And while, yes, that is true for many things. If you want to make a better marriage, make a better you. It has to start with one of you. And so I think it's amazing if you're listening to this podcast and you're on your own because you're trying to be healthy, you're trying to improve. And that's really the message that we want to change in society to say, no, you don't need two people at first. At first, it can just be you. Get healthy for you because you recognize that you have faults and areas of improvement.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I I love hearing your story. And I'm I'm love, I love that you can share it with the listeners because I think it's really hopeful. And I also think it gives a lot of context to relationships are work and they take work on ourselves and they take work with our partner. And the area of communication is just a huge topic, huge area, and critical for partners in relationship alone and specifically with sex, like we're gonna talk about today. So if you're listening and you're thinking you're the only one who struggles with talking about sex or the issues with your partner that surrounds sensuality or sexuality, you know, you're not alone. It it is a it's a difficult topic for lots and lots of people.
SPEAKER_00And it was to me and my husband. So I want to say, just you know, out the door here, for seven years of our marriage, we did not have a great sex life and we did not talk about it. And now we have a great sex life, we're happily married, and we talk about it. So learn from us if we can learn how to talk about our sex life, if we can break those barriers down, anybody can do it because we really are the least likely couple to succeed. We had everything stacking against us. So there is hope. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I think, Megan, that a lot of people they believe these weird things they've heard or seen that it's not normal to have to talk about sex, or perhaps your partner should just know what you like, what you don't like, what they like, what they don't, you know, there doesn't have to be any talking about it. And we know, you and I, from working with couples, that that is not the truth. That is definitely not the truth. Number one, we can't read minds.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm not a mind reader. Are you?
SPEAKER_01No, I'm not a mind reader either. And I try to tell people, you know, it's easier to learn how to communicate than it is to learn to read minds.
SPEAKER_00Um absolutely, I would agree with you on that.
SPEAKER_01So many couples come to you, you know, for coaching. Well, what do they say their hindrances are to talking about sex? Why are they so afraid? Why is it so difficult?
SPEAKER_00I think for one, there's already so much shame around the topic, right? It's it's a shameful topic for many. I know a lot of people were raised in homes where you weren't allowed to ask about masturbation or genitalia, or God forbid, even just ask a simple question about kissing without parents freaking out or having an extreme reaction. So then already there's this kind of shame that so many of us grew up in. And then we don't have this healthy view of it. So it's kind of a shameful topic, right? I think too, a lot of people are afraid of rejection. I mean, we all are, but I think, wow, what if I put myself out there? I ask my spouse, hey, can we try this? Or what are your thoughts about this? What if they laugh at me? What if they call me crazy? What if they completely reject my idea, walk away? I'm gonna be left feeling humiliated. And I think too, another reason, kind of piggybacking on that, is I think that there have been times where a spouse has approached their spouse or has has approached a conversation and their spout their spouse didn't receive it well. So they said, Well, I I did that once, kind of. Maybe I didn't do it the best way, but I tried and it wasn't received well. And so I'm not gonna try again. I don't want to be rejected uh again, right? I think those are the most common, is the shame and then also the fear of rejection.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I'm thinking of something else also that I hear from so many women is just if they want things to change, they're afraid of hurting their partner's feelings. And I'm sure men feel this way too.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes. Absolutely. Yes, yes. I think it's already such a sensitive topic. It's so intimate, right? It's it's the most intimate thing we share with a partner. I mean, because you can go to lunch with a friend, you can even do a budget with your accountant. Yes, you can do those things with your partner, but sex is the only thing, right, that really separates you from all other relationships in that, in that sense. And so, yes, I feel like, well, I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to make them feel like I'm not happy, even though really underneath I'm not happy or I'm not feeling satisfied, but I don't know how to verbalize that. And then, of course, like you mentioned, the world doesn't give us tools. People don't know how to talk about it, they don't even how to bring it up. So if we don't know how, we often feel overwhelmed. And then that feeling of overwhelm comes from I don't know where to start. And so we just don't do it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Well, on that note, let's cover even just a few basic communication tools that we know work really well for couples and for anybody. And then these can also be brought into the conversations about sex. So I'm talking about things like beginning sentences with I instead of you.
SPEAKER_00You never, you always. Yeah, you definitely want to bring defenses down. So always starting with I. I also think that making it about you and actually nothing about them. Saying things like, you know, I just want you to know and share with you what I've experienced. Like I feel really unhappy, or you can, I mean whatever the word is, the feeling word, but put feeling words to it. I feel really insecure in the bedroom. I feel just like we're not really connecting, not only emotionally, but not physically. So really verbalize, but make it about your experience, not your making me feel this way. Because the minute you say that, what's gonna happen? The wall's gonna go up, they're gonna walk away, or they're gonna yell, or they're gonna get their feelings hurt. So you want to keep it about you. That was the best thing I learned in therapy was make it about you, don't make it about them. And that way they can just, I just want to share and give you insight into what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling and do your best to stay calm. I think another thing, and I'm gonna just talk to women for a minute. I think a lot of times we don't really think through with what we say. I think it's really good to actually articulate what you really are feeling, what you're really wanting and needing. Write it down. Don't even talk about it with your spouse and practice it in front of the mirror. And as you say it out loud of what you wrote, you'll go, gosh, that sounds really selfish. Or wow, that sounds kind of critical. And that's the your own filter of sifting through what you're thinking and feeling and asking yourself, is it realistic? Am I just in the moment right now? Right? We we do so many things where we say a comment and it really wasn't thought out before. It's like we teach our children, right? Think before you speak. This is thinking before you speak. And the best way to do that and to become confident before you go to communicate with your spouse is to practice, write it down, say it out loud, rehearse it a few times. Then you can get comfortable and go, okay, you know what? Actually, this is how I'm feeling, and this is what I'm needing from the relationship.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think on that note, also trying to stick to one issue at a time. I think, especially, especially with sex, but in any communication, you know, you don't want to bring the whole bucket of issues that you have. Just try to focus on one thing at a time and talk about that one thing, and then another time talk about the next thing.
SPEAKER_00Correct. My my husband calls it stacking the deck. Um, but it's really damaging when couples come to the table and it's okay, well, I'm not happy with our sex life. Oh, and by the way, you don't help out with a chores. And just so you know, you were really snappy with me yesterday. It overwhelms your partner. Okay, so you think all these things of me, all these things I've been doing wrong. So now what do we do? And usually when that person feels overwhelmed, again, they either get into fight or flight mode and we don't want that to happen. So, yeah, keeping with one subject. I would even say if you're communicating about sex, don't just say, I'm not happy with our sex life. That's so vague, that's so broad. Let's get even more granular, right? Like, what is it? Is it the lack of emotional intimacy? Is it the lack of foreplay? Is it you feel like your spouse is being a selfish lover? Whatever that is, find it and stick to that alone. Now, if there's several things within your sex life that are not going well, like you said, Cindy, take it another time. Just focus if it's the lack of foreplay. Let's just talk about the foreplay. Let's just bring that up today. And in a week or two, we can bring up the lack of emotional intimacy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I think that's key to not overwhelming and also being able to articulate clearly about one thing at a time. A lot of times people say, well, should we talk about sex like in the bedroom, out of the bedroom? My encouragement to couples is to have these conversations out of the bedroom. So unless you're dealing with an issue of consent or uh right in the moment how you're feeling or pain or something like that, that's different, of course. But for conversations about how you're feeling and what you'd like to change or those kind of things, I think are best done out of the bedroom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and when you've had time to emotionally connect too, because you're already kind of on a high. You don't want to do it right after a fight about something else, right? No, or when your kids are in the car and you feel like you have to use code words, you know.
SPEAKER_01However, I do think driving in the car or going for a walk together or something like that where there's activity. Exactly. A lot of people do receive communication well when they're in the middle of an activity like that.
SPEAKER_00Especially men. Men. My husband always, when he coaches the husbands, he says, listen, start walking, stretching, exercising. Yeah, go on a drive, do an activity. Men tend to open up more when they're doing something physical, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I think another point I was thinking about is just not surprising your partner. Sometimes I think it's good to say ahead of time, let's go for a walk. You know, I'd love to talk about, you know, for our foreplay, it's sexual foreplay and how I'm feeling about that. I think sometimes people uh need a little, a little warning, especially if things are really touchy or really sensitive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's always good to calendar it. I mean, we're, you know, us, we schedule sex, we calendar almost everything in our lives, but that's because we're really busy. But I also think, too, that we we make time for things that matter. For me, if if there was something going on with our sex life, I would say, you know what, babe, there's been something I've been wanting to talk to you about. Can we talk about that? I noticed Tuesday night we have nothing, nothing planned in the calendar. Can I set aside some time after the kids go to bed? And it's probably gonna take about 20, 30 minutes. Does that sound good? I that really works well for our marriage.
SPEAKER_01We talked about not being a mind reader, and I was just thinking that, you know, assumptions and expectations can lead to miscommunication, no communication or miscommunication. So uh rather than assuming your partner knows this or that about how you feel, or expecting them to know what you feel, want, desire, my my vote is always to communicate about it.
SPEAKER_00Correct. And can I can I be really honest with you?
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Not to throw my husband over under the bus because I I already warned him that I'd be talking. He said, We're open books, you know us. So he was raised in a home, a very conservative home, where he wasn't even allowed to walk around without a shirt off, even though he's a male. He was definitely not given any tools. He really believed that like you shouldn't have to talk about it, it should just come natural. You both are gonna be in the mood at the same time every time. It's gonna be amazing, mind-blowing sex every time. Obviously, he quickly learned that's not what happens. But he has also very high expectations because he's a natural avoider. And I think avoiders, avoiders of conflict, avoiders of just difficult conversations, they really do tend to make assumptions and they also tend to have these expectations. And then what happened in our marriage was he had these expectations. I didn't meet those expectations. Now remind you, I didn't know what his expectations were because we didn't talk about it. And then he was left very frustrated and disappointed. And sexual frustration, sexual rejection, sexual fights are very different than other fights. I actually put them in their own category because it's not just, oh, we disagree on something. Then there becomes thoughts of, do you not find me attractive? Are you looking at porn? Are you having an affair? Right? We go to the extreme quickly when it comes to sex because I had to calm out in love and say, listen, you have these expectations of me, and I probably could meet them, but you haven't even given me an opportunity because you haven't talked about it, and it's gonna be so uncomfortable. But the good news is the more we talk about it, the less uncomfortable it will be. I don't want anyone to listen, think, well, it's not gonna be uncomfortable. It's going to be uncomfortable. If you've never talked about it, I promise you, you your palms will sweat, your heart will pound. I remember getting my cheeks flushed, right? Because I was like, okay, this is this is intimate, this is personal, but gosh, it gets so much better. It's so much better. And the more open-minded you both are, and not take it personal, that the goal is we are going to connect. It's not about the orgasm, it's not about what you can get or what I can get. It's this is a way for us to express our love and to connect. And if after sex, whether we orgasmed or not, but we feel more connected and more in love, then you won. You you you hit the target. And I think that's really the reminder that couples need to tell themselves in the beginning of the conversation, hey, listen, we know this is sensitive. The reminder is that we are a team. We are so much better together than we are apart. At any point, if you feel like I'm against you, if you feel like I'm criticizing you, we'll stop and we'll pick it up at another time. But if you stay open-minded, that won't happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but good. I like that idea of even saying, you know, if this gets too hard or we need to step away for a little bit and come back, you know, that's okay. And I I love that listeners are hearing your real life story because it's okay if you're you get flushed or you blush or you think you even say out loud, this is really hard for me, but I know it's important. I I want to be able to do it. I'm I want to sit in it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that. You know, that kind of communication goes a long way in in vulnerability and saying, this is hard, and I want to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I know you know this because you talk about sex with all ages, even kids. Why do people giggle when you talk about sex? Right? They're uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable, and that's okay. I mean, but to even be aware that if your spouse is giggling, that doesn't mean that they're not taking it seriously. Know that underneath the giggle is the uncomfortableness. That's what they're feeling. Because I've had couples go, well, we talked about it in the whole time she giggled or the whole time he did. It's like, yes, but they're trying to break that barrier of, okay, I'm allowed to talk about this in an open way. It's new. It's new for most people.
SPEAKER_01100%. And I love that example of really looking at the nonverbals and then not assuming they mean this isn't important or I can't do this, or I don't want to. Sometimes the nonverbals are just what you're saying. I'm uncomfortable. I don't know how to, I don't really know how to act. So I'm gonna giggle or I'm gonna kind of look away or I'm going to blush or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00And and I have to say this too, because I think this is realistic. Um, you know, a lot of times at the beginning, when we were just learning how to talk about sex in our marriage, my husband would get really horny and he'd get very turned on. And I would get frustrated, right? Because I'm like, I'm trying to talk to you. And he's like, Yes, but we're also talking about genitalia in positions that I'm telling you right now, I'm turned on. I used to shame him for that. And I realized quickly that's really unfair of me. That was his natural response. He was getting aroused by us talking about our sex life. How could you not? Some people do, some people don't. And so I also say, don't over shame your spouse. I have apologized many times for making him feel bad for being aroused. I mean, I should consider it a gift that he is aroused just talking to me about it. That's great. That's foreplay.
SPEAKER_01What a great point to make. And and I think we'll get to that in a little bit. I believe talking about sex is sexy. So on this flip side of when it's still difficult and and hard, like you're talking about, that's a really good distinction to make. So I yeah, I appreciate that. I think another thing that comes to mind for me for women, which is a mantra on this podcast, of course, is that uh your partner can't read your mind again, and your partner isn't you. A lot of times, what I want to remind women of is you are allowed to talk about your sexual needs and the way to figure out what you like, what you don't like, what works for you, what doesn't work for you, what arouses you, what doesn't arouse you is for you to start a sexual relationship with yourself. You've heard me say this on this podcast probably every episode, but it's so important. I think it's really difficult to communicate with a partner what you don't already know. Give yourself permission without shame to understand your own body and be able to communicate clearly about what you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I will tell you, that is a journey for a lot of women who were raised in either hyper-religious, conservative homes, or who have had sexual abuse, because the scripting and the narrative in their mind is sex is bad. Touching myself, being aroused is bad. I shouldn't feel this way. I I've worked with so many women that it's a journey, you know, it can be years for some women. But I always say, don't lose hope. Because, like you have said to me before, and if you haven't said this on the podcast, ladies, listen up. There are six to eight thousand nerve endings in your clitoris. I mean, come on. And there's no other function other than pleasure. And so even just knowing that information is so informative for women to go, no, like it's okay to be aroused, and it's okay to touch yourself privately to go, what do I like? What don't I like? Those are boundaries within your own body that are really important. I consider that part of self-care. And I think a lot of women feel really bad or ashamed and struggle with the thought of even going, oh my gosh, I have to figure out how I like to be touched. That overwhelms me, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Whoever is listening, you are made to be a sexual being. You are made with the parts to experience pleasure. I know you hear me say this every episode, probably, but it's so important, and we need to keep saying it until every woman can work on and go through this journey of accepting and loving herself as a sexual person and giving herself permission to have pleasure. We're gonna pause our discussion here and continue it in part two of this episode. And friends, trust me, you don't want to miss the second part of our conversation. We talk about tips for introducing something new into your sex life, how to handle when one partner is vanilla and the other's 31 flavors, and some healthy ways to deal with the situation when one partner is not in the mood. So download it now and listen to it later, or click over and jump right back in where you left off. Either way, thank you for being part of the Permission for Pleasure community.
