Wedding Pro CEO | Building Profitable Wedding Businesses

291. Legal Landmines Wedding Pros are Stumbling Over in 2025 w/ Paige Griffith

• Brandee Gaar and Paige Griffith • Season 6

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How are Tariffs impacting the Wedding Industry?—Wedding pros are getting hit from every angle this year and there is much more than world trade deals to be aware of. 

In this episode, I sit down with Paige Griffith of The Legal Paige to break down the biggest legal landmines of 2025 (including why your all-inclusive package could land you in serious trouble). 

If you’re a florist, planner, rental company, stationer—or really anyone in the wedding industry—you can’t afford to miss this one.

The (FREE!)ASSUME Sales Training: 2x your wedding bookings in 30 days—step by step. Thousands of wedding pros have already used it to land more clients immediately! http://weddingproceo.com/freetrainingorg

You can shop all of Paige’s contracts and clauses over at The Legal Paige. Use code Brandee10 for extra savings during her Midyear Sale—40% off everything!

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EPISODE SHOW NOTES BLOG & MORE:

https://weddingproceo.com/tariffs-impact-on-profit-margins-2025/

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Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Wedding Pro CEO Podcast. If you find these strategies helpful, make sure to share this episode with your fellow wedding pros. And remember, in the world of weddings, it's all about building genuine relationships and showcasing your best work. Until next time, keep shining, CEOs! 

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CEOs. Let me be blunt. Every time you say it'll work out fine, you are gambling with your business profit. with supply chain chaos, rising cost, and clients who do not read the fine print One missing clause could be the reason you're eating an $800 bill or even worse, a lawsuit. Today I'm joined by Paige Griffith of The Legal Page to talk all about the legal landmines that wedding pros are sitting on right now in 2025. If you're a florist planner, rental company, stationer, or any other type of wedding pro, this is the episode that could literally save your business. Paige, I am so excited to have you back on the Wedding Pro CEO podcast. I think I went back and looked this morning. I'm pretty sure that you are, the guest with the most episodes here on the Wedding Pro CEO podcast. this is your fourth time being on, and we for having me for number four. I'm happy to be here. It's fun to like come back every year and be like, what's going on in the legal landscape and the industry, and talking through kind of landmines or hot topics that are coming up in threads. exactly. And I immediately reached out to Paige last week. She had posted something. I was like, okay, I, it's time for you to be back on the show. There's so much here in 2025 that is. Changing Jane, or that we need to be super thoughtful about how are we protecting ourselves as wedding business owners from some of these landmines that we're falling into, or that could be possible in 2025. Paige, are you good if we just like dig right into 2025? do it. Okay. So the hottest topic that I think everyone is talking about is tariffs. One, how they're really affecting our industry. I don't know that anyone completely knows, and I don't think there's a human on earth that really understands what's happening with these tariffs completely because they change hour by hour. but because of that, how can we even know what our costs are gonna be? And. Six or eight months when we're writing contracts, writing proposals, what are some of the things that we can do as business owners to protect ourselves from what could happen? Yeah, so I'm an economics major, um, and a political science major. And then I also have a law degree, so this is kind of my wheelhouse a little bit. tariffs are tax. Is on imported goods. Um, and it raises the costs of materials, supplies, products, um, and they're also taxed on the business that's importing the goods. That's really important to note. I feel like people think that it's all being taxed on these other countries. It's not. It's being taxed on the business owners here in the United States, which is increasing costs for everyone tariffs are hoping to alleviate importing goods so that you start buying goods. In our home country. Hopefully that's the hope. Um, but small businesses are the ones that are majorly being impacted right now. When you have product or wholesale products included in your services, that's when it impacts you the most. You're seeing a lot of rise for cost of goods sold with florists. Um, so florals and equipment. You are also seeing it with camera equipment and it's going to continue to increase, like you said, over the past six to 12 months. We're seeing it a lot right now with calligraphy goods or wedding paper goods. and then of course rentals of any sort. If you have to get new rentals that a rental company doesn't already have and they have to like ship those in, we're probably talking about tariffs. when you're asking like, what do you do in your contract and what do do as business owners right now in the wedding and event industry, it's kind of twofold because if you have what I like to call a right to adjust pricing clause, or at least some right to adjust pricing language in your contract. And truly Brandee. This is only for people with wholesale goods that you can do this photographers, videographers. like, it's really difficult to put this language in tho those contracts, and I wouldn't recommend it because really it's a service that you're providing. There's no like products included in that. Your overhead is your overhead for your gear and equipment. But a right to adjust pricing clause for florists, for example, is very, very important because you are booking a wedding or event many, many months in advance, if not years in advance. And yes, you have the pro, you should have the proper markups. So I've been in conversations with floral educators and calligraphy educators, and they're all telling their students at the end of the day, this is a huge learning lesson for a lot of new business owners that you haven't had the proper markup to. Deal with unforeseen situations like this where your overhead costs are a lot larger than you anticipated, six to 12 months prior, however. You can also have clients assume some of those costs, especially it's a, a five, 10, 20% increase just in your wholesale florals, for example. And you know, as a florist, your services cost x. But your floral is something that you're purchasing right before an event, and you are getting that final invoice to your clients before you pay for your wholesale pricing. same goes for calligraphers and stationers. It also goes for caterers. we could talk about caterers and like bakers. They're just, these costs are going on to the clients, no problem. Like if you want food or you want a cake, like you're gonna pay this increase in cost. But for whatever reason, there's a lot of pushback with clients right now for Florals, florists, um, planners, maybe I'd be interested to hear what you have to say there. Um, probably not as much, but. Planners are having to navigate this with other vendors. That's it. Yeah. And, um, calligraphers or stationers, right, like they are having now to purchase whatever product they need to complete their services. Um, and that final invoice is attached to that wholesale pricing. So people right now are kind of going out to their wholesalers and saying like. This is what I originally quoted them. What is that gonna cost now? And then they're getting that increase in costs. And usually if you have a right to adjust pricing language in your contract, it says, I can revise my final pricing for those wholesale costs on that final invoice due date. It's only for the wholesale costs. Like I'm not going to push any of my service costs up on you randomly at any time during our call. Contracted period. Um, but it really protects you as the business owner from being locked into a price that may no longer cover those increased wholesale costs. So it's just good language to have in your contract. and then you would send the invoice. Hopefully they agreed to the increase in cost. And if not, you have to offer alternatives just like you would if you know something was out of season. You know, for florist this happens a lot where. They want that, but they can't get it or it's way too expensive. So you could offer them additional options or changes in arrangements or things along those lines to go back to their budget. But if you want to keep, you know the package as is, here's what that cost is. Now, Brandee, the last thing I'm gonna say is what happens if you don't have this type of language in your Yeah, was my next question. Yeah. Um, because that's what everyone's asking me and I'm like, well, I, you really have two options here. If you had a good enough markup and good enough overhead, and you're, it's kind of a case by case situation for a lot of people. And this is what other business owners are telling their, you know, mentees and members and, uh, you know, people that are in their coaching groups. And I'm not coming up with this myself, but they're basically saying like, if you've done your due diligence and had the proper markup, you can kind of eat those costs. If it's a couple hundred dollars, you don't really wanna rock the boat with your clients at this point. You've learned your lesson. Maybe your markup needs to be higher for all of these future clients, um, but also have this language in your contract. Then there's another school of thought that's. No, we can be like caterers, we can be like bakers. We can be like general contractors building a house just send those costs to our clients and see what they say. If they push back, then you're in a situation where you kind of have to deal with, okay, what does my contract say? What type of wiggle room do I have? Truly, this is just wholesale costs and invoicing, uh, them prior to the event. It has nothing to do with your services. So a lot of times you are in a good position to be able to do it. It's just like, how much do you wanna rock the boat with your clients and would that behoove you to do as a business owner Right now, it's really a personal decision, right? A morals and ethics decision. It's also looking at your numbers and seeing what would be worth it right now. you can ask to, you know, adjust pricing. You could also not ask to adjust pricing and just move forward with the package prices planned. Um, if you have this language though, in your contract, everyone is doing it. That's what I will say. Yeah, I think ha obviously having the, the clause in your contract is gonna be massively helpful and it's gonna protect you in all kinds of economies, not just right now. So I would say that would be step one is let's get it into your contract for at least future. We had one florist here in our market that sent out an email to all of their clients and planners that said, Hey, we will be adding a 10% tariff fee to all contracts starting on this date. And, I, I don't know if they got pushback, but I think what I liked about it was least, you know, they weren't waiting until that final invoice was due 30 days out and being like, oh, by the way, we're adding 10% to your contract. You know, like they were, they were trying to get ahead of it. I'm sure if they did get pushback that they could have, at least now they could look at it and say, okay, well on a case by case basis, how are mm-hmm we gonna work through this? How much flack are we getting for it? Um, but. I do think you're right, like florists are getting the biggest pushback and honestly planners are having to deal with it. You know, like we're the ones that are having to have these conversations. And what's been interesting with some of the planners in my group is they're, you know, they've written budgets based on. Three, four months ago, you know, not knowing this was coming and now the floral budgets are coming in higher and they're having to have those conversations. So while doesn't necessarily affect a planner, 'cause we're service-based business, it, it is affecting in terms of writing our floral budgets or writing just budgets for the wedding in general. Like you said, rentals, um, floral. Food and beverage. And so, if you're listening to this as any kind of a wedding pro, but especially as a planner, make sure that you're take, taking that into consideration. It's not the same budgets we were writing last year. Um, so you have to really be thoughtful about that or just add in a fluff, like you could even add in your own. Tariff percentage at the bottom, like a 10%, just kinda like miscellaneous, so that like if we need it, it's there. know, just budget line item, I definitely think that it's been interesting to say the least, but when is it not in the wedding industry? Right, Paige? Like it's just keeping us on our It's always, always interesting. The one thing I will say is, as consumers in today's economy, we're taking on those costs every day. And we're just, that's, that's where we're at. Like that's what we've been given. And your clients know that too. Like they have increased cost of everything in their monthly and daily budgets, and they're just trying, like if they push back, it's because they're trying to save some money somewhere. Um, but at the end of the day, your business and your money is just as important as their money. I tell people that all the time, and so you need to remember that you're a for-profit business and it is okay, like Brandee said, to send out that email. If you get pushback, you're dealing with it on a case by case basis, seeing if there's any type of like mutual resolution or agreement you can have with that client. But like Brandee said, it seemed like it worked. Getting ahead of it, I totally agree. Letting people know, Hey, this is impacting my business. This is. Likely what you're going to see as an increase on your final invoice. Subject to change, though, just so you know, because could be 20% in six months, I'm not sure. Um, but I wanted to let you know that this budget may have to be shifted according to the economy. This is completely outside of all of our control here. Um, and, and people know that, they know that they booked a wedding and event six to 12 months ago. Just remember there's emotions on both sides of it. So to hear people out, understand where they are at and work with them, um, that also does not totally impact your profit and bottom line. Um, maybe a little bit, but I don't want you to go outta business and that's where, you know, Brandee and I, we're gonna like, Yeah, we need to save small we're gonna stand on that hill till the end of time. Like, we're here to protect you business owners in the wedding and event Yeah. And one last thing that say about this topic is I really liked also how this florist is adding it as a line item that if the tariffs change, you know, they're not having to, if the tariffs either go up, go away, go down, whatever they do, they can adjust that one line item. And it also helps for the clients to be able to see, like, this is why we, you know, your bill is slightly more expensive, so whatever you're doing, I do think that that is really helpful instead of just. Adding it into kind of your just general overview of your pricing. I have found it to be helpful because I do think people are a little bit more understanding 'cause they know there's literally nothing you can do about it. Like it's not your cost, it's just a cost. It's been added to all products, Yeah, I like that too, because psychologically that makes sense for any type of tax item, line item that you see on an invoice. And taxes are gonna change depending on where you're at. And like if tax laws have changed and if a tax law changes in your state, like there, there's nothing you can do. You're gonna have like increase that cost and your clients know that they're gonna have to pay it and, um, it's just an intermediary cost. Um, so yeah, I do, I do like the line item portion of it. I think there's no, again, two schools of thought there on like much you want your clients to pay and see and how much you want A little bit more of an all-inclusive package to make it more digestible for them. But, uh, I, I like it in terms of tariffs. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so that leads us into another hot topic page that you actually posted about recently. And I was like, we are recording a podcast in 48 hours, so we are gonna talk about this. Um, and that is all inclusive packages. Now in an economy like this, always when the economy gets uncertain, it get, it, it goes down, or you know, it gets a little wonky. A lot of all-inclusive packages start popping up because we start to see an influx of, um, elopements or micro weddings and for a planner especially, but even venues, photographers, um, I would say those are the, the main groups that that. Start these all-inclusive packages. Um, you know, you create an all-inclusive package and you say, okay, includes your, you know, let's just say what we're, from the planner perspective, it includes, you know, an hour at the venue, your photographer, your bouquet, tne, whatever, right? And you pay, the client's gonna pay one fee to the planner, whoever created the package, and then that person is going to then pay all of the vendors. So let's talk about this. Yeah. I'm happy to talk about it from a legal perspective. I don't like it. I'm not gonna the fact that I would never like this. Um, it's convenient. I totally get it. It's nice for busy couples. I, I get it for economic reasons or vendors trying to work together and package things and like. Always be able to, I don't know, work with a group that you like work with, things along those lines. There's so many reasons behind why it sounds like a good idea from a legal perspective, what you're gonna get from me is all of my liability concerns with this type of situation. I. And there's very specific clauses in certain contracts that a planner can't sign off on. And I think we all know that, especially with like photographers, videographers, model releases deliverables. Like who has the say in any post-processing situations or editing requests, like none of that should be through the planner and it actually doesn't. So you have like all these third party beneficiaries to contracts. Um, and at the end of the day, you are liable for everything when you sign contract as the planner. You are liable for everything. And the one thing that people don't know about is it massively complicates insurance and coverage because your general liability insurance is never going to cover any negligent acts of third party vendors ever, especially if they're contractors. Like that is an exclusion in every single policy. So you're, you're out of an insurance policy if something were to happen, and I can guarantee all these what ifs that people. Thing. You know, like, is it really a possibility? No. You guys, it happens. It happens all the time. Like we see it all the time in every single Facebook group there are random what if situations and crazy occurrences going on at weddings and events every single day. Um, and what happens is when it's a client and a vendor signing a contract, they really can only go after that vendor if there's any negligent like injuries, damages. Um, I as just. Let's talk about what happened at that hotel with Hmas and, yeah, my word. yeah. And like, they pull a fire, like the fire alarm and like all this stuff went on. Um, and a, you know, like, you are liable. You're liable for everything. Your insurance doesn't cover anything. So your, your risk tolerance is so high when you're doing this. So not to say you can't do it. I'm just saying your risk tolerance has to be so high. You have to know your insurance policy isn't going to cover any of this. They would literally, everyone would have to be an employee underneath you. In order for your insurance policy to cover it, maybe I can guarantee insurance com Companies are gonna find exclusion after exclusion here. Um, that that's the only way to do it. And then at the end of the day, I just think it blurs massive responsibility. Like who's responsible for what, when does the client come into this, when if there's deliverables day of, I kind of get it a little bit more. DJs, caterers, Floris, maybe where there's not deliverables thereafter. But at the end of the day, I just. It, it seems like a, a small detail, but it can really matter a lot when disputes come later on. Yep. I mean, I know it's such a popular thing, right? And we, I mean, we have an all-inclusive package for elopements. It's to 15 people I think. So like, you know, uh, when you said risk tolerance, I was like, yeah, like we're not, we're not, they're not even getting ready on site. Right? coming, they're getting married. They have a few photographs, but the one thing that has come up for us, which has been interesting is the deliverables. Um, you know, for us, we don't sign the vendor contracts. We make them sign our contract. We make vendor sign our contract to do work for us for that day. That's a whole different topic, but the, um, but in terms of risk tolerance for something like that, I'm kinda like, eh, I mean, yes, something could come up always. Right? But to your point, like if you're having a micro wedding, Package that could be up to 50 people that are getting ready on site. They've got photo, video, floral. If flower show up dead, you know, or they're not to their liking or the photos didn't get done in time, or God forbid, we have a sepia bride issue. Right. Who does that actually fall on? I'm assuming whoever created the package and that the money was exchanged with, right? It, it's gonna fall back on you no matter what. clients are always gonna impute liability on you in those situations because. they didn't sign the contract. And even if they did, you are so heavily involved here. You probably signed the contract too, or reviewed the contract and the money was exchanged. So you're already a quasi-client under the contract. Um, and they're gonna, you're, you're absolutely on the line, number one person on the line. And again, it, it's facts and circumstance dependent. I get it. In the elopement industry when, or micro weddings, when you're so involved in this. Process and you're really like just trying to help them have a day of some sort where it might make sense. Where you are hiring out those vendors, you're okay taking on that liability, your risk meter's really low, um, and, and you're willing to do that, but. Uh, in, in most cases, they can't, you can't sign on behalf of clients unless you have full power of attorney, which a lot of you don't, unless you're, you know, we're talking here, like celebrity events, high profile clients, those types of things. Um, but we have to remember, go through every clause in your contract or go as planner. It doesn't matter if you're a vendor. Go through every clause in your contract and be like, could a planner even sign off on that for the client? Right. I would guess at least a third of your contract is gonna be a no because solely related to the clients and their rights responsibilities under your contract. And then if you're a planner, do that. Like you think it's easy, it's, it's an easy thing just to sign and pay and do all of that. But go through the contracts and think in terms of, but can I even sign off on this? With the and model releases are a huge thing. You have no ability off on a model release. On behalf of your client and lots of vendors have them in there. Even if they do, you know, anything with their smartphone, whether that's still photos or you know, videos and they're posting them like the clients haven't signed off on them, ability to be able to do that. You have, but they haven't. So, um, just getting those things really, really clear. Maybe if you do offer these, you know, there are legal ways around it, it just becomes more complicated. You would have to have all of this documentation from them and the clients and probably a very different contract with them. That they're allowing like model releases across the board with anyone that you sign. Um, and then you're double checking that and you're looking at all these clauses and making sure that your clients agree. I mean, again, I'm just like adding on things that are making it more complicated, which is what you were trying to prevent from the get go, so, right, right. Yeah. You're trying to make it. Yeah, and I, I 100%, like I, there's lots of planners that. I talk with and they will bill everything through them and then pay out. And I'm just like, that is a liability. I am deathly afraid of. I'm never gonna do that. Um, obviously we do do for elopements in smaller weddings, but one of the questions I would have for you is if somebody, photographer, venue planner, wanted to create a package like this because will be more sellable here in this type of economy, would it make sense to just simply have. The client sign each contract with each vendor, but they still are kind of like, here's your package, here's how much it is. They're negotiated rates, right? For this package to work together, but then just have the client sign each person's contract is, I mean, I know that sounds kind of silly, but it I I that's totally good. You're still looking at the contracts. You're still helping negotiate or walk them through it if they have questions. Because you have the expertise as the planner in the industry and have seen a lot of these contracts before. Um, and then you're working directly with those vendors as well, but the clients need to sign those contracts. And then the retainer payment is. Coming through you or something along lines. Just know your, your liability goes up the minute that you do that. Um, but definitely have clients sign contracts no matter what. Like, if, even you're in this type of package situation, maybe you have a contract signing day. I don't know how you would go about it to make it like less cumbersome for your clients. Um, or just say like, Hey, here's the list in an email. Here's all these links. I package them all together, so you're not gonna get 15 emails. Boom, boom, boom. Sit down and sign as a couple at your leisure. In the four days, and I'll check back in with you to make sure that these have all been signed. I don't know, I'm just like trying to figure out a scenario where this would work, but yes. My answer is definitely have the client sign the vendor contracts, so at least you're good to go there. Know that kind of quasi signing when you're paying a retainer and now money is being exchanged through you. Now you're kind of third party to this contract already. Um. But as long as the clients are signing off on a lot of their rights and responsibilities under each vendor contract, I like that a little better. Yeah, I think so too. And I think, like I'm thinking about how we put our elopement packages together. Like we have special negotiated rates. We have very short one page contract with each vendor.'cause we have to move fast on these. We're like, go, go, go. And so I could see that even if we were gonna have. The client sign each of those contracts, it'll be so easy to link each one. They're not gonna each get a HoneyBook, they're not gonna each send through their own system. It's all just gonna be one email. So I could see how you could make that very streamlined, but keep yourself legally covered. So we talked a lot about model release in what you were just talking about, and I think that's a huge thing just in general in the wedding industry. it really leads us into kind of that last point that I was like, okay, Paige, this. I know what you're gonna ask. Yes, it's huge on threads. I feel like you also did like whole webinar about this not that long ago, about model release and, and vendors asking for photos from the photographer. you have so, so much to say about this, so I'm just gonna leave it at that and let you talk because it feels crazy. Yeah. It's. It's not as complicated as people are making it out to be. I think there's just a lot of emotions behind your work within photographers and videographers, copyrighted works that makes people kind of get on edge a little bit and feel like they own the rights to things when they really don't. Copyright law here and intellectual property law is very, very clear Photographers. Own their copyrighted images. The minute that they compose the shot, it doesn't matter if your floral arrangement is in it. And we're, we're, we're also talking here about temporary fixtures and structures, which under copyright law, oftentimes you don't have a copyrighted work within a copyrighted image. I think some people think they do, but they don't because it's temporary work of art. the venues is a different scenario, so I'll get to that here in a second on private property. But a lot of vendors are just, they're probably frustrated because they've either been burned or there's been weird things that have happened with photographers or videographers where they're just like, at the end of the day, I do not have enough marketing and advertising materials. And then we have like these exclusive photographer situations where like they're the only ones that are allowed to be at the wedding and event. Can I even bring my own person in? And also like that's just not, it doesn't really make sense for a private person's like wedding and event. Like, I'm not gonna bring in my own people. Like, this isn't a styled shoot, but like that's some of my best work and I want to get it. So I understand both sides of the coin here. I really want everyone to play nice in the sandbox. I'm not sure why people are not totally playing nice in the sandbox. But at the end of the day, like every photographer and videographer does have the right to decide how they want to license their copyrighted works. When I was a photographer, and I hope everyone knows this, I didn't give a whole spiel at the beginning on who I was, but I am not only a lawyer, but I'm also a photographer, and I was a wedding photographer for over 10 years. I was also in the portrait space as well, but when I was in the wedding and event industry. this was not a thing. I think everyone just played a little bit nicer in the sandbox back then, and I was always giving highlight images to the vendors that I worked with. And you have to make sure, so model release wise as a photographer or a videographer? Mainly this is for photographers, um, because they're the ones that really want the, the, the other vendors want those images. Not as much. They want like little clips from the videographers sometimes, but it's mainly with photographers. You have to have a model release clause as a photographer that says the clients are granting you the right to use these photos and images for your own marketing and advertising. And you have the right to give those to any third parties that you so wish because they're copyrighted materials from you that allows you to then. License those images to vendors, which are third parties. Lots of photographers do this. I would say, I don't even know what the stat is, but it's the majority. I'm just gonna say the majority of people are being nice and they're saying, here's your highlight images. I made sure to curate some just for you as the florist, just for you as the planner with your tablescape or like you working or whatever it is. you know, just the DJs, I made sure to do all of that because then they would credit me and like, it was just a marketing ploy on my behalf too. It's like really smart photographers. Um. But I think things have gotten a little out of hand where people are like, well, I, I want to, I want them to pay for that. And if that's the case, like you have the right to do that, or maybe it's a limited commercial license to use where you're saying you could post it on social media and you could post it on your website. Any additional usage beyond that would require additional compensation. Any vendor is gonna be like totally understand. Thank you at least for allowing me to use these on social media and my website with proper credit. Of course. And that's where then photographers have been pulling back a little bit because I think vendors are exploiting their usage of these images for commercial purposes and there's no credit whatsoever. and other vendors are like in those photos too, and they're not getting credited. So it's just like everyone gets a little disgruntled when we could all just like do our due diligence. Have proper credit, use it for what the photographer allowed you to use it for. Any additional use would require additional compensation. That is their copyrighted works. They are legally allowed to do that. So I want vendors to know that. and you know, I think, I think you, you, what's also going on is miscommunication as a whole. When photographers are like sending images, they're not exactly clear in that email what the limited commercial license actually is. So that's why I was hosting this free webinar. It was just an educational webinar. I do this. Every quarter on a, on a specific hot topic in the industry, and this was it. And it was for vendors too. Like Lots of vendors showed up, and planners showed up on how they effectively communicate with their clients and vendors on this subject. But a lot of photographers, I was saying like, I don't think you are doing the right thing with sending this email. Like this is what the email needs to say. And anything beyond that needs to be in a non-exclusive licensing agreement. Like you need a four corner document so everyone's on the same page and everyone really knows what they can and cannot do with these images. I think there's mistakes being made on both sides. I also think it's just education and knowledge that people don't have, that they need to have on what copyrighted works are. and who owns the rights to those images and you In most situations, I. You do not own your copyrighted work to a, anything like a, a copyright within a copyright for a wedding and event. and a lot of times it's the client's ownership and the clients have already signed off on that for the photographer. So, um, that's my take on it. Anything else you wanna add? Well, it's so funny because I, I, wrote this down as a question 'cause I was like, goodness gracious. Not only did this come up when we had the whole photographer issue recently, where, I mean, every I. Human on planet Earth that had been part of a wedding or knew what a wedding was, wanted chime in about who owned the copyright on these images. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is such a hot topic right now. One. But then on threads, it's like any time somebody says, oh, this photographer won't gimme images, or they're putting a watermark on all the images. I mean, hundreds of comments come on and everybody has an opinion. And so I think really interesting. It's like. I think you hit all the points that I wanted to hit Paige, which is one. Really from a photographer's perspective, it's just smart marketing to give some images to the vendors to share and say, Hey, they need to be credited to me. I love that you said, you know, a lot of times photographers are just trying to like get them to the vendors and they're not saying things like, I must be credited. Here's how I should be credited. Here's how you're allowed to use the images. If you wanna use it in a different way, please let me know so we can work that out. I think those guidelines aren't on there, so then they get upset when they're not being credited. And I get that like a ton people are bad accrediting. Um, so I get that. So then it's like they're burned. So then they, the, the whole topic comes up. Well, I should charge people for them. And I think that that leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth because to the point that you said Exactly, which is, well, if you're gonna have an exclusivity clause in your contract where we can't bring someone else in to photograph our work, and you know, especially when you're going out and you're creating something you've never created before, it's completely unique. Of course you wanna capture that for your own marketing, your own gallery, your own social media. And if you're not allowed to, because the photographer has an exclusivity clause, but they also won't give you the images. it can be frustrating. So I think it's just a, a sum of it is a matter of just. Goodwill in general. It's like, I, I love that this is one of the few laws that's super clear. Like I feel like we always talk about laws and we're like, well, it's gray. It's like, this isn't gray. It's super clear. But the reality is some of it is just a matter of like goodwill and, and smart business. Like it's not even about the law, it's just what makes best sense for your business. And sometimes when you put bad juju out into the marketplace, it's just not good for business. I agree with you. I mean, probably the majority of the time I, it's like I could go back and forth with you on this for probably hours because I also see it from a lot of other photographers perspective, like maybe they have enough marketing and advertising at this. Point in their career and they're just like, you know what if they would've had to hire a photographer to get these images anyway, like it's less expensive for them to just license it from me for a small fee. And you know, now I, I have the ability to be able to do so. Um, and so maybe that's where they're at in their, you know, business journey and that's fine. And maybe they've had coach that says like, Hey, this is what I've done and this is what I'm doing. Like again, like I don't know why they're doing this. There's probably. So many different reasons why, but I'm never gonna discredit a photographer for going one way or the other, depending on where they're at in their journey. I did it a certain way. I would probably still do that even if I had enough marketing and advertising clout behind my business. But also there's a lot of people that have been burned enough times that they're just like, it's not worth it to me anymore. They can get it from the next photographer at a wedding and event. And I think there's also a lot of photographers as well that are in the boat of like, this would've cost these vendors money no matter what to hire a photographer. And like, I'm not getting florals for free from these florists. I'm not getting DJ services for free from them. I'm not getting planning services for free. there is an issue with the quid pro quo here on like what you're getting. Maybe you're playing nice and I think that's the goal is like they will refer you and there's like hope that there's good referrals and word of mouth, but that's not always the case. And so photographers should protect their services and their expertise as well. Um, but again, I'm just, I'm trying to like also give that argument here. Um, I'm sure some photographers are thinking that. I, I just, I think you can license images. I think everything needs to be clear on what that licensing includes and doesn't include. What is that limited commercial license? Do they need to sign a non-exclusive licensing agreement if they use it for additional purposes? And is that clearly communicated to these vendors that you're working with? you're not gonna give images, maybe at least just tell them, maybe just like respond back to them and explain that and don't ghost them so that at least these vendors have an answer. Or go on threads and Go on a rant about why you get so mad that wedding vendors ask for photographs. Like I think it's a normal thing to ask for. You're welcome to say no. Um, but I, I do hear you.'cause I will say I have had my work posted before as planner. Buy like a venue and I'm not credited. And I'm not gonna lie, I get super frustrated about it. And I get it. Like the photographer's not getting credited. You get burned, you get frustrated, and you're like, screw it. I'm just not even gonna offer them anymore. They can pay for them if they want. So I see both sides, and you're right. I feel like we could go on forever about this, but at the end of the day, you have to decide what you're gonna do with it. But for everybody listening, the copyright law is clear. There's no gray to it. So, um, follow the copyright law, like stop arguing about it. only nuanced thing that I will say here is with venues and private property, that has become an issue. Um, so two things, vendors and venues. You can't put in your contracts that the clients are going to send photos to you in the gallery. We never new thing with This is a new thing. It's everywhere. And I'm like, it's the most illegal, invalid clause that I've ever seen, because I can guarantee you that the photographer has not assigned full copyright over to the client. Do you only celebrity events and they're not gonna give images to anybody? So, um, the photographer still owns the copyright. They cannot, they, they have a limited personal license to use. So even if clients are signing this with vendors. And or venues, it's mainly venues who are sending this. Like it doesn't it, the client doesn't have the right to give those images. So if they did, and the clients are just confused and they don't know what they don't know, and they're like, well, the venue, I signed this, and the venue's asking, so I gave it to them. And now the photographer's involved, like, you kind of gotta take your clients out of it because at the end day, like. They didn't really do anything wrong. They were just trying to follow something that they didn't even know was an invalid clause to begin with, and now you've got a copyright violation because you're the photographer. So anyway, just clients, just, they're trying their best. Um. But you can't have this clause in your contract. What you can have is like you have the right to reach out to the photographer and request images, and the client is giving you a model release validating that that would be okay to do. so that's the type of clause that we have in our vendor contracts. Venues, though they are having this like private property little. argument here that because it's on private property, we own the rights to all of the photos that have our private property on it. And this is tricky because it's the one instance where technically we've got property law and intellectual property law at odds. And private property law is pretty clear. Like they do own the right to have people. Come onto their property and do X, Y, Z or not, come onto their private property and do X, Y, Z. so they might have a somewhat decent argument. The problem that they are facing is implied consent from them. The clients hiring them to come to the private property. There was an implied reason behind why the clients were paying for the venue for this allotted time. It's on their private property. The clients have already paid for the usage of that private property, and there was implied purpose there of having an event with multiple vendors that would allow, that would be allowed to be present at this private event. Including a photographer and or a videographer. So they have an uphill battle with that argument there. Um, in court, I think any day of the week, they would be like, no, your private property doesn't, you know, it does not trump the fact that you were opening this up to yes, a private event, but an event where you knew X, y, Z was going to occur. And those images are still owned by them. it's just, yeah, you, the venues like can't try to get around this by saying, well, it's private property, so you have to send my images to me. What might happen is like a photographer being leery of maybe posting very specific photos of that venue. Like from drone footage or like, you know, wide angle of the whole venue or something along those lines where it clearly depicts that venue. If they are having these arguments surrounding private property and you guys are just at odds and like you're in a dispute, like I would just avoid that if at all costs. So you don't end up in like some legal battle. I do think photographers have a better argument to win. Um, but those are also at play here that I just wanted to mention legally speaking, what can and cannot do as a venue and or a Vendor. Yeah, the one that we actually had to remove it for client was a hair and makeup artist that had a clause that said that the client had to send their professional images over. And of course we were reviewing the contract and we're like, yeah, they're not signing this. you don't even have the right to make them do that. Like there's no, so, um, I thought it was interesting that these things are just like sneaking into contracts, but. I mean, hey, you know, people put all kinds of crazy things into contracts, whether they're or not, it's a different story, right? So, um, okay. Paige, we covered a ton in this episode. We always do. You always come with like all the fire Hey, don't mess up your business legally. Right? Just trying to Wanna make sure I'm your like legal big sister on your shoulder. Yes. Yes. I love it. And you guys know that we love partnering with the legal page. all of our company's contracts are from the legal page. All of them for both blush and Wedding Pro, CEO. I feel so covered when I have their templates. I understand it. Paige has comments on the side so that we can say, okay, this is what this clause means. Like I want to understand my contract. Paige, I know you're right in the middle of the midyear sale, right? So can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, so every six months, twice a year, we do a big sale, and right now our midyear sale is happening, everything in the shop. So the legal page.com, all contract templates, short forms, LLC, registration guides. A la carte clauses. If you wanna beef up your existing contract, they're all 40% off or more, and it's the best time of the year to, you know, double down on legal protection, get what you need in your legal toolkit if you're having different offerings coming up over the summer or the fall, or at least the next year. Think through that. bolster your legal protection behind your business now and. It's a really, really good time to get it at a fraction of the price. it's well worth it. It's like the gift that keeps on giving. You can use it for all client situations. and yeah, that's what we have going on right now. And of course, if you guys have any questions on like what contracts you may need for your unique business, myself, my legal team, my customer service team, we are all here to point you in the right direction this week. And Brandee, you have something a little additional as well since you are a trusted affiliate of ours. Yes, if you use Code Brandee 10, when you check out, you get an additional discount on anything that you buy in the shop. So make sure that you use that code. We'll put the links in the description below as well. I'm gonna link specifically some of the clauses we talked about in this episode, and then some of my favorite contracts for the students inside of my programs. But you guys, Paige, hit the nail on the head like this is the time to update your toolbox, especially if you're thinking, I might be hiring this. Fall or that you're gonna bring on an associate second shooters, things like that. These are all great contracts to get in place while they're on sale, even if that's not something you have yet. But it's coming. So Paige, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all that you do to keep the wedding industry legally legit. We appreciate it um, thanks for being such a popular guest on the show. Oh, well thanks for having me back. This was a true joy, fun combo, and I wish you guys all the best with your upcoming wedding season.

People on this episode

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Brandee Gaar

Host
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Paige Griffith

Guest