SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION  Podcast Artwork Image
SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION
Darinka Mangino
October 05, 2018 Agustin De La Mora

Interview with Darinka Mangino, Conference Interpreter.
 
 Links to the summit advertised:
 
 Finding the Parallels Summit

November 9th - Free Welcome Reception
Novemeber 10th-11th- Skill Building Workshop

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1:0:00Hello and thank you for listening to subject to interpretation hosted by Augustine Delamora. My name is Claudia and my name's Kayla, and we are the producers of this program. Before we get into today's interview with special guests during who was a conference interpreter and has also gone viral on facebook for her amazing long consecutive ability, we wanted to bring you the latest announcements from Delamora interpreter training. If you found us on facebook, we like to remind you that you might download us directly to your phone wherever podcasts are available now onto some more exciting news. The time is almost here for our annual finding. The parallel summit beginning November ninth with our welcome reception, which by the way, it's free to the public. This reception will include a panel with surprise guests, food and drinks. So come out that Friday and learn more about the world of interpretation or bring a friend with you so when who may be interested.

Speaker 1:1:00Yes. And following the reception on November 10th and 11th is the skill building workshop where you will attend seminars hosted by certified professionals and network with colleagues in both the legal and medical fields. You don't want to miss this and all the details will be in the description bar below. Now stay tuned for next week's podcast featuring Robert Cruz, who is the executive director of the National Association of judiciary interpreters and translators. Better known as magic. Yes, we appreciate all of you guys for listening in. We pride ourselves on being one of the very few podcasts or professional interpreters out there, so please share us with your colleagues. We would love to hear your feedback and questions and beginning next week we will be answering your frequently asked questions here live on the podcast. So please feel free to contact our office and you're most likely speak to one of us until next week. Now enjoy the interview with their anger Menino. Goodbye.

Speaker 2:2:03Welcome to subject to interpretation. I am your host and I am in Mexico City and I had the pleasure to introduce to you one of the most renowned and well no interpreters in Mexico and her name. Is that in government? He. No, she's right here with me and a. without further ado, I'll let her introduce herself. So good morning. Good morning everyone. Thank you. I was dean for this kind invitation. I'm very happy to be here with you and share a little bit about my story with all of the members of your school. And by the way, I loved the name so it took to interpretation. Yeah, it's wonderful. It fit like a glove, I think. Yes, it does. So if there was a little bit about yourself, you, you, what area of area of interpretation do you specialize in? I'm basically a diplomatic interpreter and uh, I

Speaker 3:3:00in a way in court interpreting because it is a new field in Mexico, but I basically teaching it and research about it made it dramatic interpretation. Tell us a little bit about what that entails. Oh, that could take us a long time, but in a nutshell, we help leaders in this particular case, the president of Mexico and his cabinet, when they meet with their counterparts, the precedence who come and visit prime ministers, kings, Queens, members of the clergy, you name it, everyone who has a special function and when they come to to visit our country in unofficial visit or a working visit, there are interpreters present. In my case, I am part of the English Spanish team. I also interpret from French, but basically my combination is language and English and well in this day and age, most people speak English even when they have a different national language.

Speaker 3:4:04They rather when they're in a group of people where there are several languages spoken English as their preferred language, we could say that it's a Lingua Franca of diplomatic exchanges, which is a change. It wasn't French in the past, considered a diplomatic language and English took it over. It took. Yeah. It took over and well, a special variety of English. We could say it's a global English, like the English that they had and in the European Union, I don't know what they're going to do now when they're going to take English out of the mix, but, but yes, English is widely spoken so that sounds very interesting. So you haven't been present in some negotiations you can tell us about it or you would have to kill us after that used to happen in the past. Very long time ago. But, uh, yes, uh, I've had the honor and the privilege of being the personal interpreters so far for two presidents of Mexico and several secretaries.

Speaker 3:5:06So yes, there are a variety of settings where we help them by being their voice in English and it could be when they come and uh, as I said, Penn official visit when they have working meetings where they took over the phone when the presidents and secretaries traveled to other countries and will they, they have meetings and they are also taking to wonderful places that not many people have the privilege to witness with their own eyes. So I've been in beautiful locations as an interpreter. Otherwise, I would never have been there. That's wonderful. I was wondering if you get to travel sometimes through this exotic locations as an interpreter for the presidents? We do, we do. We travel a lot. It depends how busy they are. International agenda is, but they're usually, let's say throughout the years specific, uh, for uh, as perfect specific meetings that they all attended starts in February with the World Economic Forum.

Speaker 3:6:11It might be, I can't remember the exact month of the year where APEC takes place, but there are meetings where you have a group of countries meeting and some countries like Mexico that we're in or invited to be part of their talk. So is there's a lot, a lot going on on an average year and of course countries invite other precedents to visit them and it depends on how many, how many visits they have planned. And uh, well we're so close to the United States. So there is a lot of interaction with the, with your country and. Yes, I travel a lot to very remote places.

Speaker 2:6:53How did that tell us it interpreter for such important people? Did you like when you were nine years old? I was a firefighter or something like that, but did you wake up when they say I really wanted to be an interpreter because I have to tell you, I never thought it was going to be an interpreter. I didn't grow up thinking I was going to be an interpreter. I ended up in one. So how did it happen to you?

Speaker 3:7:20It happened in a way very similar to your story when I was, it was not when I was nine, but I remember that the moment, the moment I could speak, I knew that I wanted to be an astronaut and most of my, but I was serious about it and I wanted to study science and I wanted to do whatever it took to become an astronaut. But back then Mexico didn't have a space program. So if I wanted to follow that path I would have to study abroad and everything got complicated along the way. I tried hard. I wrote to Nasa, I got all the information that any little girl that asks for information would get. So I got what it, uh, what I needed back then to the side, we're interested in it, but everything was a roadblock on that, uh, on that particular path.

Speaker 3:8:08So when the time came to the side to join that university, well, I just had no options and my family was very worried because I was a good student. I was good for, for many, many subjects. Math was not an issue while I want it to be a scientist. So yeah. Yeah. So, so it, the coin cited that I was the family's interpreter and uh, back then I lived in a little town and will go and I was the only person who could speak English and were my mother used to work. They needed a translator. So I was, I believe 16 or 17 and I got to translate four or five books about hunting reserve. So yeah. Yeah. So after that I became a vegetarian, but that's a, that's a different story.

Speaker 3:8:57That's a different story. But I got myself into translation without noticing that that was a profession. So then my grandmother met the accountant, have a school here name, uh, in Mexico City that he has the same name as the school that you would find in Paris. But, uh, then she told me, well, I know that we haven't found the best career for you, but in the meantime, why don't you visit this school, think you like languages. I think they have something similar to what you do with your mom translating. So I said, okay, let's give it a try because I, I wanted and I needed to be part of a, of a program. I just wanted to be in, in a, in a university. So the moment that I got to the school, I decided, okay, I'm going to be a translator, but I didn't know what interpreting was until the first day where we were sent to the interpreting booth for practice.

Speaker 3:9:54I realized that I was born to be an interpreter. I just knew it. And uh, I loved it. I forgot about my career as an astronaut and I was very, I've vanden space. Yes. But I, I didn't know. But then that I will be surrounded by stars later on in life. So yes, I got close to that, that particular dream and uh, I love the feeling of being in the booth as a student and I also loved the feeling of doing consecutive interpretation and I, I was very good at it. I learned how to do it. So that helped me later on in life because as a diplomatic interpreter we do use consecutive and we use consecutive I said was used in the old days so it's long, very long and I felt very comfortable about it and in my carrier I run into situations where I was the youngest in many groups of interpreters and when they, I'm the chief interpreter or the person coordinating the, the event would say we need a consecutive interpreter. And I was the only one with my hand up. So people started realizing that I enjoyed it. I was good at it. And in diplomatic interpreting, part of the profile of the job description actually is to perform consecutive interpretations so that automatically. Well, that segues my way into diplomatic interpreting because when there was a need for one new member of the team that would accompany presidents. Well, my name came up. I took a test and it's been eight years.

Speaker 3:11:38Yes, yes, yes. And who does that testing? Is it the Department of State or Mexico? It's different. It, uh, that a job is outsourced. So the, there's a company that a world for over 70 years has had that contract and they're very good at what they do. They're very experienced and diplomatic contributing. So. So basically it was with the cash, what do they call it? Certified licensed expert. Well, well the universe. Well, I don't think it has a test. It was a test made by the actual government because when they send out a bid, they ask the companies will tons of requirements. They have to present many, many, many papers to confirm that they have everything in place. And in that particular occasion when the bid was out for that administration at test was made by the, by the government and all the, all the contractors had to bring their own interpreters and we were all tested.

Speaker 3:12:49Yes. Yes. So that was a specific function, not like a universal. No, no, no, no. For that specific function for the bit that was sent out. So the, what was your first job as a diplomat interpreter? I remember it was for precedent colored on when Joe Biden came. It was, it must have been in the last 18 months of his administration. So there was an official visit and uh, I remember that it was, yes, it took place at Los Pinos and I was of course terrified because, uh, his very well. Joe Biden is very clever when he speaks, he's a, he inserts a bit of humor. So I knew it was going to be a hard to handle the situation it yes. But it all went good. They started using or sayings that makes it a little bit more complicated. So not everybody knows. What could you tell us about Los Pinos is I know that the beans, the pines, those peanuts is the official residence for the presidents and they have a house there and they have offices. Excuse me. Yeah. So, so it's usually, well it used to be the custodian Chapultepec during the period years where the. Oh, I'm sorry, were the presidents used to live, but then they changed it to low speed and so it's right in the middle of the park. It's a beautiful place. And uh, yeah, they, they have some buildings set for offices and for the residents. So Joe Biden gets here and that is the official interpreter of.

Speaker 3:14:36No, no, no, no. I was part of a, of a team, so usually we're, we, we take turns was when we traveled, sometimes we travel in teams of two or three, but back then it was only two of us that now how does it work? Does it, do you interpret only from Spanish into English and then an American hired interpreters to Spanish or do you guys flipped the coin and how does that work? That's a good question. I take all those things for granted because that's what we do everyday, so usually presidents or the principal in a meeting they in usually people travel with their own interpreters, so in my case I would be the voice of Mexico into English or any other member of the team or if the president of France comes, we would have a French interpreter or a German interpreters, so there's always an interpreter assigned to Mexico, to the president and members of his cabinet and you would have another interpreter from the visiting country and we take turns.

Speaker 3:15:47They're the voice of their precedent and we are the voice of our precedent. So usually you go in one direction. Only those contents are meetings. There are two interpreters present, yes, but sometimes only one side has an interpreter there to help and we do both, but in official visits, usually teams of interpreters come along with the presidents of these ones that some of the Mexican president still using interpreters, even though they might be completely fluent in English. A user. So you see people we will be used even in breed are supposedly not needed, right? Yes, exactly. We as diplomatic interpreters are there to ensure that communication flows without any misunderstanding, without any mistake, which is, how can I say this? It's almost impossible because in human communication, misunderstandings are common and uh, people think they said one thing, but they, what they thought was not what they said.

Speaker 3:16:55So it's, it's human to communicate and misunderstandings happen along the way. So it is a lot of it. It's a huge responsibility. So we are there to ensure that there are no misunderstandings, more long consecutive do simultaneous. And when you do simultaneous you use equipment or how does that work? We use all of the known mode stuff, interpreting when there is a one on one meeting for example, and there's only the two presidents having a conversation. We don't use the equipment. We would use whispering or consecutive if, if we're needed because as you said, many people speak English fluently and we're just there as a backup or if they want to consult, what is the best way to say this? Or. That was especially for ponds and sayings in Mexico. Use a lot of sayings and Edm. So that's when they would consult us as well and uh, but if there is a large meeting where you have the president and the whole cabinet, of course you will have a long table and whispering doesn't work.

Speaker 3:18:03So in that case you would see the normal setup a booth and everybody, if they need interpretation services, they would use the headset and you're in a dinner for example, or a lunch, they would make a toast. So basically that's when we would use long, long consecutive or when they are addressing a large stadium for example, or a in a solid color for example, I haven't interpreted in consecutive and the Soco now that I think about it, but that's the image that comes to mind in the main square. You have many, many people, thousands of people and that would be impossible to give each one of them a headset. So. So yeah. The three modes of interpreting are used a little bit because you told her that you studied here in Mexico, but it was my understanding you studied interpretation somewhere else. Yes. Yes. I studied. I, I hold two master's, one in forensic linguistics from Aston University in Birmingham, in the UK, and I'm also a trainer of interpreters. So the only program that I could find that actually is the best program available for training interpreters is the one offered by the University of Geneva. And uh, and that's where I studied in University of Geneva. Is that a masters degree or. Yes, yes. All of the programs they offer our master's degree and I do think they have some courses, but uh, it's usually graduate studies.

Speaker 2:19:38Wow. So you're probably, I'll be training, I'll be honest, I mean training interpreters for awhile, but I don't know a lot of people that can say they went to a master's degree on how to train interpreters. So how did you find that program? Did you just go on the Internet and say

Speaker 3:19:55where do I get that? That's right. And that that's very true. It's, it's actually a new, uh, a new area of study where we're very young profession. So it's conference interpreting is like as if I'm not doing the math wrong, seven 60, three years old, I guess we're. Well, let's see, let's round it up, 70 years old, so as you can imagine, programs are new, uh, to study a phd for example, is a new thing as well and interpreting. So I just asked around and I wanted to study because as a trainer you might have experiences. You start asking questions, why are students doing this, why are students doing that? And we need some theory to explain that. And uh, I went to the Internet and started asking where were, do interpreters, go to study to teach and uh, that's how I got to, to this program, Geneva.

Speaker 3:20:58Oh, it was an online program and that's also changing. Yes, that's also changing. So I only had to be there for a couple of weeks and uh, and everything was, was delivered online. It was a nice experience. So actually help you use technology remotely as an interpreter and a trainer. So that is exactly because that is changing. The way we work on the technologies that we use are changing. So studying online can be a nice way to step your foot on the door of a remote interpreting for example. You no longer have to travel to Geneva, which will be a little bit more expensive than taking online, especially if you. Exactly, exactly. And uh, as a practicing interpreter, I just couldn't take two years of my life so that, well my life as an interpreter because. Yeah, exactly. So that was a good way to study and continue doing my job.

Speaker 3:21:59And uh, I got uh, I got a lot of support from the agency that I was working well and I actually got a grant to study that masters. Yes. From the other grants you can apply. Yes, of course the fondazione Italian, but I usually will, has very interesting support program. So that's how I got that partial granted. Exactly, exactly. So you've mentioned that you do now legal interpretation. Is that here in Mexico, and tell us a little bit about the evolution of legal interpreting here in Mexico. It's a new field. It started in the year 2011 under President Fox. They started changing the way criminal justice is administered in Mexico. So he took a long time to change the code of criminal procedure is to change the constitution, to have all the changes implemented, to have a system that it's similar to what you see in your court.

Speaker 3:23:05So now Mexican, Mexican courts follow a system that it's a combination of the British system, the Chilean system, the German system, and the American system. So it's that frack because of course for us, we live in the state. We are all eights, the Mexican system or maybe the Argentina or Chile. It's modeled after the US, but it's not exactly. For instance, do they have jurors here? That's right. No, well we don't have a jury. We have a panel of three judges. That was the final, a decision after they considered many, many, many different options. So we don't have a jury, but there, there is a judge, the presiding judge and a panel of two specific cases. But the main difference between your system and the one we used to have is that, uh, we, we would file a lot of documents. So everything would have to retake into the judge and probably defendants would never had to see the judge.

Speaker 3:24:11So it was an inquisitorial system, that's how they call it. And it was a combination of a, of a little bit of Roman law and uh, an adaptation of certain laws that came from Spain back in. Well, I'll way back back into the. Exactly. So we used to have a system that didn't work very well, so it's changed and starting in July, 2006, every state in Mexico now it's compulsory that they use open hearings. And it might sound obvious for you because you had that system for A. Yeah, forever. So for us it's new to go to court and be able to just go to court and just enter any of the, of the court rooms that have a public hearing and people can witness what's, what is happening. And a criminal and civil law. It's mostly criminal. So we bring a bunch of interpreters from the US really inviters one day and over course of course just as being just.

Speaker 3:25:19Exactly. So that's what got me interested in forensic linguistics because as an interpreter I knew that we were going to be cold and there would eventually be a need for interpreters in the new system because before translators did most of the work just through documents. So I said, well, I need to learn how to train interpreters to perform as professionals because we're going to be needed at court. And so far I've been on the list that the Mexico City Court has and I've been called to court two times. So that's how busy course, our four interpreters two times in five years. So that means that there's not a lot of people that require interpreters, not in the languages that, that, uh, yes, I have in my combination, but to consider we have in Mexico 69 in indigenous languages and there's a large deaf population. So it was a sign language interpreters are needed and indigenous languages interpreters aren't needed, but not many. Well, if I would live in Cancun for example, that would be a, a busy place for interpreters because a lot of tourists, yes, spring breakers get into trouble. But um, but not in Mexico City, it was very interesting that you say indigenous languages because in the United States

Speaker 2:26:44they're starting to realize that indigenous languages are different languages that you were born in Mexico. That doesn't mean that you speak Spanish men. And in fact some people might speak very little or no Spanish and those are the people that you say it need services here in Mexico.

Speaker 3:27:03Exactly. And what happens is that, uh, in some cases, in some parts of Mexico, they migrate to the United States and you might find communities that speak English and the indigenous language and they don't speak Spanish. So when they come back they are in trouble. They run into

Speaker 2:27:23do it themselves. We're also finding some people and I been called more than once to court when the person is from Mexico and they immediately assume they speak Spanish and they struggled to say a few words in Spanish, but they don't speak Spanish. Exactly. And it's an interesting challenge for us to find somebody who speaks enough of that indigenous language and English to be according to our theater. So I mean part of at least two occasions where we actually did really interpreting and we went from, I think it was mom to Spanish to English, back to my Spanish and my mom was a, it was taxing and I'm hoping it was pretty good when we find anybody that could do mom to English director. Wow. So you said indigenous languages

Speaker 3:28:18recognize here as 69, they call it linguistic families, so that if you add to that, the local variations of that specific language. I think it's around 400, but the main languages are 60 minutes. And when you became or started working for the courts here in Mexico, did you have to take a certification exam or for, for expert witness or what did they consider called? Petty, which I believe it's the closest equivalent to expert and expert witnesses. So yes, every state has its own legislation in terms of how they're going to add you to the list, but usually you have to take an exam. So you take the exam, if you pass it, your name appears on a list and we have the same system for. Well here in Mexico we have federal courts and state courts. So they have their own system as well for the order that you go to to work where their state courts or federal state and was here in Mexico City.

Speaker 3:29:22Yes. Is that an interesting. Interesting. So then tell us about, you become a youtube sensation because that video talking about. Oh that ain't [inaudible]. Tell us what was going on there. Well it was a video when Norm Chomsky for a conference at the university and before the large conference where they talked about it, I think it was the name was civilization under siege. So it was very close from the moment when trump wanted to build the wall. So many, many fingers inside of that that it was time to talk about it, about the state of civilization in general as a way to counteract that kind of, of rhetoric. So they met here in Mexico and norm Chomsky came and he was interviewed by the media. The every newspaper was there. So I was asked to do consecutive and it was one of my best consecutive ever that was broadcasted live and a colleague, so I done decided to share it on facebook and it went viral, but uh, it was, you can imagine having someone of his stature there and having the honor to be his voice specifically speaking about a very important topic that many people react to.

Speaker 3:30:58And I mean he's one of the brightest minds that, that we have had in the world. And, and I was next to him being surrounded by stars.

Speaker 3:31:13We're broadcasting live. Yes. By then you were used to. It used to controlling the way my body reacts to stress. And uh, well when I totally about how I want it to be an astronaut, at one point in my life I used to be a track and run athlete. So I, when we were on, on the tracks waiting for the signal when they, they should, they should have gone. So that was a very good way for me to train my body to control world. The signals of a, of stress. Because a straight stagefright is real. And I do get nervous, of course, but I managed to make that a more of an adrenaline rush than a situation where I panic. So, so that, that helped back in, in my teenage years because I hadn't even thought about it. But obviously if you're in negotiations of any kind, you really can't show a reaction to what anybody's saying us to maybe roll your eyes or act surprised you train to be poker faced with situations.

Speaker 3:32:35Well, I think I didn't have to train myself that much because you have been there. Well our audiences not, uh, not present, but uh, I don't express many, many feelings as padding so it doesn't, it doesn't create a problem for me. But inside, of course, of course a lot of emotions on and we react to the words that we convey on behalf of other people. So, so in that sense, yes, we have to be aware of how much we express with our body, with our faces, but the fact that we have to be focused to a certain degree that we forget about ourselves helps. But yes, it can be very stressful if you're surrounded by media. Yes, they, they are very present, but they make a lot of noise and that can be very difficult for yes.

Speaker 2:33:34Just for a president trump and about this. Nafta is no longer called Nafta. Apparently whatever is going on, you could hear those cameras constantly just sounding off while the interpreter was trying to interpret you are not the interpreter.

Speaker 3:33:57And uh, I would imagine that that's quite distracting while you're trying to convey meaning and the inflammation. Yes, yes. You have to keep your cool and uh, we'll get into getting distracted. Can be a click. It can be enough to give you. So you have to feel comfortable in those environments and can be photographers clicking with their, with their cameras. It can be a need approaching the president just to give him a message. So you have to be aware that that's going to be your reality and you have to function. Doesn't matter. There is no excuse. But that takes practice and that takes a lot of discipline because one of the things that I was thinking is when I go to the and I'm working with, with attorneys for instance, I'd sometimes give myself a little bit of time to talk to them and ask them if they have ever been a,

Speaker 2:34:53do they have ever used interpreters and what's their experience and give them a little, a one on one aide, listening short sentences or whatever it is, first person, etc. Uh, do you have this conversations with, with presidents and members of cabinets or did you. JUst because I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure it out. Sometimes they might go long forever and you do long consecutive and then sometimes they might understand that maybe they should stop. So how does that work? Was it an intuitive thing?

Speaker 3:35:25The good thing that happens with diplomatic interpreters that we are part of a team and usually we're going to be there for the whole administration. So right at the beginning it's the right time to explain to them what is the best way to work with interpreters if it's possible. Some might be very experienced public speakers, they might have had interpreters, which is usually the case, so we don't have to do much explaining work. And uh, in Mexico for example, they have a protocol office and they are the ones who tell the secretaries or the president is what is expected in each particular moment. For example, in the uk, during the official visits, the speeches are not interpreted. They are translated on a piece of paper and are left on the table for whomever needs it. They just read it. But that's the rule. So they have to be informed of what is the prevailing rule in the country that were visiting.

Speaker 3:36:28So sometimes it's compulsory or consecutive interpretation that is expected or they would have a booth available. So if they haven't worked with interpreters before that sometimes they ask, do you want me to stop? Or sometimes we agree, if it's a, um, a speech that they're going to read, they know that they have to pause every two or three paragraphs and they, and they know if they don't pause, we would, we would follow their lead. But uh, yes, there are some times where we have some interaction in terms of explaining how we do and how we can be the best of health for them. I want them to go back to what you just said, two or three paragraphs for interpreters. Talk about consecutive. They tell me, well how many words, how many words am I going to hear is when you talk

Speaker 2:37:2240 words sounds like a lot more than

Speaker 3:37:2740 words. So three paragraphs or something that you would do on this famous long consecutive, not necessarily well, two or three paragraphs applies when they are going to read a speech because a, b before people were used to listening to the radio. So let's say during world war two, people would wait until the speech would finish and then the interpreter would come and deliver this speech in a different language. So people were used to waiting, let's say 20 or more than 20 years now. But now people, they just want the information right away. So that's why they, if they're going to read a speech, they would stop. But when they are speaking of the cop, you can't stop them mid sentence. So when never they finished their ideas or a couple of ideas we would step in. So that would could be five minutes, sometimes five minutes.

Speaker 2:38:28Yeah. For those of you who are concerned about 20 words. Oh yes. Actually I went to renew my invitation for you to find them and give us a seminar long consecutive because I think that it will be very well received or maybe it was a time talking about this using technology because I know many of the people that are listening to us would be interested in what is, how do you Jump from 20, 30, 40 words to five minutes on even very slow person. Slow in the sense of speaking slowly would take five minutes. That would be 700 words or something like that. So it seems insignificant. So have you get that job and you know, obviously this is not the tIme. By the way, we've run over our time and I didn't want to take advantage of your generosity, but I wanted to invite you and renewed this invitation because you need to tell us how do you make that jump? Maybe took a little bit of experience of your track and field. I still have that long jump that happens from toys to 700 words, so I hope you have, except for an invitation.

Speaker 3:39:42Of course. I would be delighted. Thank you very much for this invitation. I would be very happy to share a. Well, what works for me is not going to be the same strategy that can work for, for you, for example. And that's, that's the secret. We need to find out what can work for, for how our mind works and the way we usually underestimate our, our capabIlities is specifically in terms of memory retention. We're not used to doing that. Even remembering phone numbers will. the phone does that for you. So why should you care? But when it comes to delivering speeches, it's um, it's amazing to see when people discover how much they can do when they try. Right?

Speaker 2:40:28Thank you very much for sharing all of this knowledge with you. I wish we could have a three more hours, but you have a basis to see you again and we will continue this conversation, so thank you very much. Wonderful. Thank you for thiS invitation. It's been a pleasure as well.

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