Talk Sex with Annette (Locker Room Talk & Shots)
Talk Sex with Annette
Where desire meets disruption—and pleasure becomes power.
Hosted by sex and intimacy coach Annette Benedetti, Talk Sex with Annette is the go-to podcast for bold, unfiltered conversations at the intersection of sexuality, identity, and empowerment.
From kink to connection, self-love to sexual healing, Annette dives into the topics most people are too afraid to touch—with expert guests, raw storytelling, and a feminist lens that challenges shame and reclaims pleasure.
Think smart, sexy, and radically real: this is the cultural conversation around sex that’s long overdue.
Talk Sex with Annette (Locker Room Talk & Shots)
Lactation & Pregnancy Kinks: Why They Turn You On (Therapist Explains)
What if the thing that turns you on the most… is also the thing you’ve been too afraid to admit?
This episode pulls back the curtain on one of the fastest-growing—and most misunderstood—kinks: pregnancy and lactation play. And no, it’s not just a guy thing.
Some women say it’s the sexiest they’ve ever felt. Others say it helped them reclaim their bodies after birth. And for many, it’s about erotic power, healing shame, and exploring deeper levels of intimacy.
My guest, Chelsea Newton, is a queer sex therapist and founder of Phases of the Mind Therapy. With dual master’s degrees in Social Work and Human Sexuality, she’s a kink-affirming expert who helps people explore the desires they’ve been taught to hide—and find surprising healing along the way.
Together, we unpack:
- What pregnancy and lactation kinks really mean
- Why they’re more common than you think
- The psychology—and nervous system magic—behind these turn-ons
- How this kink ties into early attachment, power, and care
- How to explore it consensually (even if no one’s actually pregnant)
This isn’t just a conversation about kink—it’s about freedom, pleasure, and the power of naming what turns you on.
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Cheers!
Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck, and always with the goal of fighting the patriarchy. One female orgasm at a time. Welcome to the locker room. Today's topic is pregnancy and lactation kinks. Why these might turn you on, a therapist explains. This kind of kink is surging in popularity, and not just among men. For some women, it's the sexiest they've ever felt. For others, it's about reclaiming the power of their bodies during and after motherhood.
Speaker 1:And my guest today is Chelsea Newton, and she is not here to kink shame you. She is here to help you understand why this might turn you on and why it might just be a doorway to deeper healing, even if you've never been pregnant nor had a baby before. Chelsea is a queer social worker, sex therapist and the founder of Phases of the Mind Therapy. After nearly a decade of serving families and communities in Philadelphia and Denver, she created a practice that honors the full spectrum of human sexuality Yay, I love that Including the parts we're often too ashamed to talk about. She holds two master's degrees, one in social work and one in human sexuality education, and she's a kink-affirming therapist who works especially with people who are exploring their sexual identities, healing from shame and learning to trust what actually feels good in their bodies. She is perfect for this podcast is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So if you've ever had a desire that has scared you or thrilled you, this episode is your permission slip. Grab your headphones and maybe your journal, because this might just be the most honest conversation you've heard about pregnancy and lactation kink. But before we dive in folks I know that's a cliffhanger I want to remind you that I'm on OnlyFans and over there I'm sharing intimacy and sex how-tos and demonstrations. I'm also providing you with some audio guided self-pleasure meditations that are going to help you improve your own pleasure journey. Well, as soon as you subscribe, there's lots more going on there. I'm also over on Substack doing the same and you can find me by my handle at TalkSexWithAnette. You can also scroll down. We're going to find all the links to wherever you want to find me below, but for right now, we are going to be talking to Chelsea about the pregnancy and lactation kink. Chelsea, will you tell my listeners a little bit more about you?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and thank you so much for having me. You know, as you were sort of mentioning what I do, I just was beaming because I'm like I have the coolest fucking job on earth. You know, I'm a sex therapist. That is what I'm trained to do, and really I specialize in helping folks talk about the things that they're really, really scared to talk about. Whether that is a kink, whether that is an experience of trauma, whether that is coming out to a partner or a family member. I love supporting folks with the things in the therapy room that they just don't know where else they can even talk about it, and so it really is my passion. I am also a licensed clinical social worker in the state of Colorado. I work as a school social worker, and when I'm not being a therapist or a school social worker wrangling five-year-olds which is often what I'm doing you can really just find me hanging out in my backyard. I'm just one to be in nature and so grateful to be here in Colorado.
Speaker 1:Well, welcome and thank you for joining for this conversation. I think we're going to have a lot of listeners who have their eyebrows raised and we're going to have a lot of listeners who are like, oh, that explains so much about me. So, whether you're curious, or you're really curious and want to get involved with this kink, I want you guys to stay to the end because you're going to fully understand this kink. These kinks, there's two we're going to be talking about. We are talking about the pregnancy kink and we are talking about the lactation kink. Now, I lumped them together. It may be that by the end of this podcast, we want to pull them apart and dive into them deeper, but I felt like they went together well. So if you are interested in them, then by the end of this podcast you're going to understand them better and you're going to have some tools to talk to your partner if you have a partner about it, or seek out a partner to help you fulfill the need, if you will, by the end of this podcast. So, as always, folks stay to the end.
Speaker 1:I want to let you all know that Chelsea came to the table with a great idea and we missed out on the boat. On this one she was like I almost came to drink a flute filled with milk with you, and I am sad to say that this is not happening today. But someday, chelsea, maybe I'll have you back and we will drink, drink our milk together. So, folks, let's get ready to talk about the pregnancy and lactation kink Cheers. All right, we got to start at the top here. What does it actually mean when we say pregnancy kink or lactation kink?
Speaker 2:So pregnancy kink is what it sounds like, right, it's like somebody that is attracted to or turned on by, aroused by, pregnancy. However, it can look a bunch of different ways. So there's some folks that may be, you know, seeing a pregnant woman, seeing that pregnant belly, and that could be a real turn on. For other folks it could be different stages of pregnancy. It could even be things related to pregnancy, like morning sickness, right. So there's so many different aspects of the pregnancy kink that may have to do with, you know, when we sort of traditionally think of this sort of nine month really round belly of somebody who's about to give birth. But there are so many other aspects of it beyond just that.
Speaker 2:When we talk about the lactation kink, it is also straightforwardly what it sounds like. It is arousal or desire to either view lactation right or have breast milk as part of sex. It could also be an adult nursing relationship, which is a big part of the lactation right, or have breast milk as part of sex. It could also be an adult nursing relationship, which is a big part of the lactation kink, where folks are having this adult nursing relationship, which for some people may or may not be sexual, and so that one is. I mean, any kink can be complex, but I think the lactation kink is a bit more complex in that it just presents itself in so many different ways.
Speaker 1:All right. So with the pregnancy kink, it could be a kink that occurs from the other, meaning a man or someone who's not pregnant being turned on by a pregnant body, the idea of pregnancy. But it can also be from the woman or person's standpoint of like feeling turned on either by being pregnant or the thought of being pregnant. Correct, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think there's so many themes around like femininity and fertility that can be so empowering for women who are, who do have this kink, and it is a really pleasurable feeling to be pregnant, to experience pregnancy or even just fantasize about the possibility of being pregnant or breastfeeding, which is why I think the pregnancy and last patient kinks really cross over, because I think for some folks that is a big part of the puzzle.
Speaker 1:So do you need to actually be pregnant, have been pregnant or have been with someone pregnant, in order to participate or be interested in or have this kink?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. You do not have to be pregnant or be with somebody who's pregnant to participate in the pregnancy kink. There are lots of ways in which people explore this. One way is through using like a prosthetic, even like a belly right that can be strapped on and so you may not be actually pregnant or, you know, you may not even be a cisgendered woman Right and, putting on this belly, you could be really of any gender, of any sexual orientation and use something like that to create that same sensation that we would probably have at externally if we're experiencing pregnancy. So you absolutely don't have to be pregnant, you don't have to have ever been pregnant to enjoy the pregnancy kink.
Speaker 1:So I know this is going to be hard for you to believe, but I have been down many a porn rabbit hole in my lifetime. And the first question, as you are speaking about this, that pops up in my mind does the breeding kink tie into the pregnancy and lactation kink? Because I'll admit I've seen on the titles of the videos breeding session. I'm also going to be really honest, and y'all know that I'm honest. I have never once clicked on those. Something about it like I'm just like what Just? I grew up on a farm, so it's not for you, it's okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, it could be, but I never clicked on it, chelsea.
Speaker 1:I don't know, but can you talk about how it folds in, how the breeding kink folds in with the pregnancy and lactation kink?
Speaker 2:Yes, so in preparation for our conversation today, I myself was doing a little bit of research and Googling and came across lots of different porn titles and all kinds of things, and one of the things that I haven't really been thinking about coming into the conversation was also the impregnation fetish, right?
Speaker 2:So this breeding fetish, or even this fetish around the idea of, or the fantasy of, either impregnating somebody or becoming pregnant during an act of sex, and so, yeah, I mean I think it is really tied. I think that can be part of it. I've seen even um, and actually had a client who was really into pregnancy tests, which actually had more to do with the urination over the pregnancy test, and they knew that they weren't pregnant, but there was something about the act of the urination and the possibility of a positive pregnancy test that was like such a turn on for them. So when we're talking about the pregnancy and lactation kinks like there's a lot of crossover that I think can happen. We're talking about bodily fluids, we're talking about reproduction, we're talking about growing bodies. That was another one that I came across in my research was like feederism, right For folks who are really wanting to feed and grow the size of a body, and there's some crossover there with pregnancy as well, and so it really just like goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1:My mind is blown right now. I came into this feeling like I knew something, and I only know a little on the grand scheme of things, so I have so many questions. So where do you think this type of kink its origins are from? Is it something that comes from childhood experience? Is it something because obviously, you don't have to have been pregnant to be turned on?
Speaker 2:by it? Is it from watching a pregnancy? Are there any sort of psychological things going on behind this?
Speaker 2:I'm always really careful not to point to any one specific origin of any kink, because I think that we already deal with so much stigma and shame often around kinks, and so if you're into a pregnancy kink or you're into a lactation kink, right then there must be something that happened to you or there must be something in your life that, like propelled you into this interest. And in my experience as a therapist working with clients, it's just simply not true. Yes, sure, there could absolutely be a really defining moment, say in somebody's adolescence, where you know, they saw a woman breastfeeding and it really was their first time understanding arousal in their body and something stuck or something clicked, but even then I don't know that that would necessarily be like the thing. However, I do think when we think about lactation and pregnancy, we're really talking about this like feminine energy. We're talking about nutrition, right, because ultimately, when we think about the act of nursing or breast milk, like really the true purpose of that is nutrition.
Speaker 2:I also think that breasts are just so sexualized in our culture, and even pregnancy has become more and more sexualized in our culture. You know, I forget what year it was, but it's like Demi Moore was on the cover of like Vogue or whatever with this big pregnant belly and I feel like that was sort of the start. And now we see companies, clothing companies that do like pregnancy styling, and there's so many beautiful nude pregnancy photo shoots. Even for somebody who doesn't have a pregnancy kink, those photo shoots I think can be so beautiful and empowering.
Speaker 2:But I think we see this increase in sexualization around pregnancy and pregnant bodies and so I don't know, I don't know that there's a specific origin. I mean, if we wanted to talk about like Freud and psychoanalytic theory, we could go forever about like what Freud might have to say about a lactation kink, right, and like sort of this oral fixation and all of those pieces you know. So I think you know I don't typically practice from the psychoanalytic lens, but it's certainly within my training and like I think we would be remiss to not at least mention you know that there's definitely some psychological theories behind that. How accurate those are for a specific person, you know, is really dependent on that person and their experience.
Speaker 1:So let's break this down. I want to talk about what the pregnancy kink looks like, meaning what are some acts that would be included in living out this kink, and I want to address both non-pregnant and pregnant bodies.
Speaker 2:Sky's the limit. I mean, sky's the limit really. I think it can include a lot of things. I think typically it includes, you know, intercourse with a person who has a pregnant body, who is pregnant or has a prosthetic and is sort of acting like they are pregnant. I think that that is probably like what we most commonly think of and what I've most commonly come across in my practice as a sex therapist. However, I think that there's also an aspect of it.
Speaker 2:When we think about um, uh, like ultrasounds and the goo or the jelly right that goes on the belly and the hearing of the heartbeat, or the looking at the photos or something about this connection to something that is other than, um, I don't know, a human being that is earth side right, it's like there's this thing that's going on.
Speaker 2:That is like really incredible, and I think for some folks, that sort of like unknown or uncertainty can also be a real turn on. In my research around this, I also found that in a lot of like slash fiction or other forms of pornography like hentai, there is also like a really strong kink around impregnating somebody or being pregnant with like alien eggs, for example, and so there's just so many ways in which this can look and I think it just depends on the person. It could also be more of that bonding, it could be a snuggling with of this pregnant belly or perceived pregnant belly. That I think could be really comforting for folks. And so again, I think sky's the limit. It really really ranges depending on that person and their fantasies and what turns them on and their fantasies and what turns them on.
Speaker 1:Well, because it can be part of role play, right? If you are not pregnant, then part of the pregnancy kink is one person role playing being pregnant. And what I think a lot of people who tend towards more of the vanilla side of life don't understand is that with a kink, especially one like this, is that it doesn't have to be a human pregnancy. Right, you can fantasize about any kind of pregnancy that you might, and some people might. I can imagine celestial beings or aliens being pregnant with. You know, think about mythology where the gods would come down and impregnate a human woman and the human woman would carry a god slash human combo to birth, and that was very eroticized and romanticized as well. So that, look at me getting creative with the kink already.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying, Like it's not the limit. I think there's so many different things that that tie into this kink and it's really not just one thing. It can be so many different things and I think people come at it from different places, different experiences, different you know, art or or literature that they've really enjoyed that can like spark some of those ideas, and so it just depends on the person.
Speaker 1:Two things. First, a personal share. I have actually gone I wouldn't say dated this person. I would say that we went on a few dates.
Speaker 1:I did know a man who had a pregnancy kink and discovered it when he was with his ex-wife. Then, at the time that, when she was pregnant, he was super aroused by it. But then when she was no longer pregnant, it was like, oh, how do I fulfill this thing? And when he became single, he would get online and find couples where the woman was pregnant and the man was, I guess. Then I guess you would call the partner maybe a cuck and they would invite him over to enjoy having sex with her because she was pregnant and living out that fantasy. Well, um, I don't know what the husband did, but that was something that he that was his way of kind of fulfilling that kink in a consensual way. So, um, that's that's my only connection to it.
Speaker 1:I personally was a miserable and I think we could all agree pretty unattractive pregnant woman. To me there's just nothing sexy about it. I know a lot of women who felt very goddess-like and gorgeous and also turned on because of the amount of blood that is flowing to the genitals during that time, and so they're very horny and turned on and God bless them. I feel good for those women. I was the most unattractive feeling I've ever been. This also brings me to when I was going through childbirth and getting for one of my pregnancies.
Speaker 1:That was when the orgasmic birth came on scene. Guys, if you don't know what this is, we'll give you a little brief understanding, but you're going to have to go look it up online. And it was the concept that women could have an orgasm while giving birth and that birth isn't really painful and it's actually orgasmic and it's normal to have orgasm while giving birth and that birth isn't really painful and it's actually orgasmic and it's normal to have orgasms during giving birth. I've never heard of anyone doing that. I've had two natural births and I'm just telling you you can't make me believe it, but it was a really. You can't, you cannot make me believe that, but it was a real big thing. I don't know if it's still big, but how does it is?
Speaker 2:I think it is still a big thing All right.
Speaker 1:How does that fold in? Does that fold into this kink in a way, because my kink-o-meter is going off with that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for a lot of people, when we have this conversation, there becomes this it factor. When we start to talk about children, right, because for obvious reasons, right, we don't like to associate children and sex, and so anytime we're talking about, I think, pregnancy and lactation, I think it is extra taboo because somewhere in there there are these aspects of, like motherhood, fatherhood, children, and so, yeah, it's, it's really interesting. But but what you're saying about the orgasmic birth, I mean I've seen it all over social media, right, lots of people claiming that you know they had this beautiful, calm, drug-free, at home water birth where they orgasm 7 billion times and it was like magic and the heavens opened and all of that. So I mean, I've heard those stories. I've also heard so many stories that don't sound or look anything like that, and so I can only trust people's experiences.
Speaker 2:But I do think, you know, even in some of my research, looking at some of the porn, some of it is like birth giving porn and that is also, like I was saying, stages of pregnancy for some folks, that really early stage where there's just like barely a bump could be a big turn on, or even like the morning sickness piece, which I found really interesting for some folks can be a big turn on. And then when we think about it all the way you know, to that again classic sort of really big, beautiful beach ball sort of belly, but then also the birthing piece and watching birth and seeing birth and seeing the way the body changes, seeing the way the vagina opens, seeing the way the clitoral hood is, just like you know, really retracted, like I imagine that for some people that really does something.
Speaker 2:Um and so yeah again, sky's the limit.
Speaker 1:I'm just having all sorts of thoughts and ideas while we were talking about this. So I have a question, that's how does this play into it? And I want to do a whole podcast episode on this topic, and I want to do a whole podcast episode on this topic, the topic of fisting, as I'm a queer woman and I have been shocked over the course of my sexual experiences with women, how many women love and enjoy being fisted. I happened upon it by accident in a sexual I don't know.
Speaker 2:I somehow it just ended up there.
Speaker 1:I just ended up there. I'm like, oh my God, here we are. Somehow, somehow my fist is there and this is what's happening. That was exactly how it was and it's it's hot. It's, by the way, it's hot as fuck. Surprisingly, and during the experience several times, because it's happened a lot where that's something that's desired, women have a hard time asking for it for obvious reasons like shame around that. But it makes me wonder is that in your research? Is there any tie in there to the idea of something large that fills you up? For, from the position of a woman in pregnancy, something large that fills you up coming through your canal? Because I've definitely in my mind had moments of being like, well, it's not much. A baby's head isn't much bigger. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I didn't come across that in any of my research. And as we're talking about it, I'm like, oh, for sure. I mean there's very I think there's a lot of similar sensation, Perhaps much more pleasurable for some folks, right.
Speaker 2:Than delivering the head of a child 100%, but I don't think it's a far reach. Like I can totally see how that could be really pleasurable for somebody, and especially somebody with a pregnancy kink, right, if you've never been pregnant or you're not planning to be pregnant, would it be interesting to have that fist inside of you, even having that feeling of movement inside of you, like, would that do something for somebody? And I get I mean basically, if we can imagine it absolutely. The answer is yes, it does that for somebody. That's what I've found in my work. It's like if you can imagine it, you can picture it. Somebody out there likes it and does it. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, there you go. I'm real creative when it comes to this kink. So, folks, if you have this kink and you didn't have that idea, there you go.
Speaker 2:Use lube, use lube, a of a lot of lube, use a lot of lube. Trim your nails. A glove is good too, um you know. But yeah, give it a shot, see if you like it there you go.
Speaker 1:Uh, so this kink what? In what ways can it fulfill a person beyond, obviously, if there's physical sex involved? What sort of emotional, psychological and physical needs can it provide for someone who's into it?
Speaker 2:or might be into it, I think, for the pregnancy piece. I mean, sex is such an intimate act and so I think that there is inherently, you know, regardless of the sexual behavior you're engaging in, regardless of your fantasies, regardless of whatever sex can be so intimate and connecting. And so I think, you know, for anybody it's like there is that, that emotional connection, this closeness that can be there. It's not there for everybody, it doesn't always need to be there every time either, but I can imagine, you know, in thinking about some of these like impregnation, in I can't say this, but wanting to impregnate somebody right, it's like, oh, it's like there could be this aspect of not only the closeness but it's also this like we hear this in like religious conversations a lot this like spreading of the seed. That, I think, is like really exciting for people and this idea of like, of legacy and, you know, having that be something that is carried on. And so there's not just this like thing that's happening in the immediate, there's also this thing that's going to then like grow and develop and like mean something bigger. And so I think, you know, emotionally and psychologically, there's aspects of that.
Speaker 2:I also think, spiritually, this idea of like creating life, giving life, bringing life, bringing that energy is really appealing to people.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're a creative person and you love to create, maybe you don't want to have a kid, maybe you don't ever want to be pregnant, but is there something that's really powerful or interesting or intriguing or or I don't know a curiosity within you of what would it feel like or what would it be like to have that sort of energy or embody that type of energy, and I think that for some people, just the fantasy of that could be really exciting, even through a process of grief.
Speaker 2:You know, I think about grief. When I was thinking about the pregnancy kink, I was thinking about grief and I was thinking about people who maybe want to have children but, for whatever reason, are not able to have children, or they adopted or use a surrogate or whatever it may be, and there may be grief for some people around that. And so a pregnancy kink is a way to sort of embody or explore that, even though you've not had that experience, and so I could absolutely see how that could potentially be healing for somebody not to say that it's going to be for everybody or that it's like an answer right To like healing somebody's grief around this, around parenthood or whatever, but I can see how there may be an aspect of that that could be really comforting to somebody.
Speaker 1:Because sex is healing. I think people don't realize how healing sex is and it can be healing in all sorts of different ways, including this way, and kinks are typically very healing for people. That's another thing that people I don't think understand. Something I was just thinking about that I know other people have talked about I certainly did not experience this is some women may be turned on by the idea of a pregnancy kink.
Speaker 1:Uh, because of the way they get receive attention and care and nurturing when they're pregnant right, if they have a good partner. The partner is like helping them out, bringing them food in bed, almost like worshiping them in a goddess-like manner. So I could see that being something like if, if you just feel like you needed to be doted on and appreciated for the incredible you know women are we're all goddesses we can literally build a human inside our body and push it out into the world, which is crazy when you really think about it. It's crazy and amazing all the time. All the time I could see how, if you're feeling the need for that kind of like worship and being doted on, that could be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as you're saying that, I'm even thinking about just the mental load, right, like the mental load of motherhood is talked about so much.
Speaker 2:Although I argue it's the mental load of parenthood, right, I think that that is super gendered and like doesn't necessarily need to be. But you know, if you're in a relationship where the agreement is that this person always does the yard work and this person always does dishes, and this person's responsible for the Costco run and this person's responsible for the laundry and whatever, whatever, and then there's a pregnancy, some of that may shift and so even just like the novelty of having a different set of like household responsibilities or negotiating that with a partner, right, I could see how somebody would want to, even then, after giving birth, you know get back into that role play because it's like, fuck, I hate doing the fucking dishes, so like, or, or I hate pulling the weeds, or whatever. And so it's like, can I just be pregnant in this day or in this week or in this month, and we have this negotiation about what's going on in terms of household responsibilities, like I could even see that being something that would be a huge turn on for somebody.
Speaker 1:Right, right, okay, all right. So there you go, guys, there you go. Sky's the limit. Like I said, sky's the limit, sky's the limit. And that is the beauty of kinks in general is it's expansive to your intimate life. And when I say intimate, I'm not just talking about PNV sex here, folks, remember, we're trying to pull away from that. We're talking about the intimate play space, adventure, space, connection space, which is so much bigger than just sticking the dick in and getting off or whatever, grinding two vulvas together, whatever you're doing. So I want to move on to the lactation kink, and what could it look like? What does it look like? What is all included in, or could be included in, participating in the lactation kink, because I know that there are several different ways. I've seen this play out Period.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about I'm so curious, I'm like okay, well what ways. Have you seen it played out? I mean, I can share the ways I've seen it played out. Um, but yeah, anyway, um, I will. I'll kick off with a personal story.
Speaker 1:I mean I wouldn't say it was the kink. I think in fact I can. I helped somebody confirm it was not their kink. After I can still just I can still see his face.
Speaker 1:After I had my first child, I was a single mother, uh, for almost two years and I breastfed for a year to year and a half and you know it takes a while after you stop breastfeeding for your for the milk to go away. And I at some point started dating this man who was sure he was crazy about me. And during sex, of course, like I've got these, the only time in my life I had these ridiculously large boobs. It was with my first baby, lots of milk coming in. And I will say this first of all it's something that is not often talked about, that I, but I can tell you almost every woman who lactates well experience is sexual pleasure. While breastfeeding, there is like I mean, that area is being stimulated and it will cause the pussy to wake up. Not always, but you know it can be very disturbing to a woman who's been told her whole life that that. You know that's not what you're supposed to feel.
Speaker 2:This is so disturbing to women, and so many women experience this and are so scared to talk about it because they're like, oh my fucking God, what is wrong with me? Like this is sick. Like oh my God, I'm like being sexually turned on by my infant and it's like, listen, that's not what's happening. Right, that's not what's happening. It's like the nipples are in a erogenous zone, so there is going to be pleasure associated with that. Also, you're having this like beautiful bonding experience, potentially with your baby. For other people it's not so beautiful and not so bondy. Sometimes there's pain and all of these things, but, all that being said, it's like the nipples are in a Rogers zone. So if you're breastfeeding your child and, as you say, the pussy wakes up, there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 2:No there's nothing.
Speaker 1:Let's just put that out there. Yeah, let's put that out there. But let's also talk about and I know this was long, long time ago because it was way before I had babies I remember and I think, why it was kind of shocking at first. I remember watching some news story about a woman who had that experience happen and she called I don't know if it was a nurse helpline or whatever- and said oh, I'm having this experience, and it resulted in CPS showing up at her doorstep to take her child from her.
Speaker 1:So just to be clear just to be clear, and especially in the political climate we are in today, uh, it makes sense that women are afraid, and then like there's not enough information being given to them and they're like shutting that part of themselves down. But so, I mean, I was wise enough and I already was sexually educated enough to know that it was normal, but anyway. So I'm dating this guy, and then we, you know, we get into bed, and it was the first time I really enjoyed having my breasts played with, of course. What happens, though, when you are engorged? Someone starts playing with your breasts as they start leaking and sometimes, in my case, shooting like they can really like fountains man fountains, if you get really stimulated.
Speaker 1:And so we decided to experiment with him enjoying some of it. Well, he was not prepared for the fountain, and I think we had been drinking alcohol a little bit too, and he drank a little too much of my milk, and apparently too much is too much, because he promptly turned a bright shade of green, and really it was his, which he, it wasn't his kink, I don't know if it was the, the, the trauma mentally for him, or just like that he, you know, really had made it, made his stomach. He was a little bit weak stomached anyways, to be fair, but he puked.
Speaker 2:Are you saying he vomited?
Speaker 1:He did not vomit, but he looked like he was going to vomit and his sickness carried over to the next morning and afternoon, like he couldn't eat for a good period of time because he was just so freaked I think. I think it was the combo of the mental, because I'll tell you this too this is another little secret. I don't know that I've mentioned this on this podcast before. So once, after I'd had a baby, I was on a trip and it was the morning and I had to get somewhere and I needed my coffee. I cannot drink coffee black, and the coffee in the hotel room did not come with milk.
Speaker 1:And yes, folks, I'm not going to lie I'm like looking at my boobs and I'm looking at the coffee and I'm like what could go wrong? And here's what I can tell you it's actually sweeter. Breast milk is actually sweeter than cow milk. And if you're willing to drink the milk of the cow, I mean what? What kind of little breast milk, you know? So I did, I did, I did and I don't regret it. I didn't do it again, but you know, I like to think of myself as a resourceful woman.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That is resourceful. I mean, if you need a little, you need a little milk in your coffee. You've got milk, go for it.
Speaker 2:What I will say and what that reminds me of because as we're talking about the lactation kink and I'm thinking about people using breast milk as adults is there's a lot of of like bodybuilder culture that wants breast milk.
Speaker 2:There are women who are selling their breast milk to these bodybuilders who are wanting to get really buff and really ripped, and you can find it on Craigslist, you can find it anywhere. And so if you need a little bit of milk at the hotel for your own coffee and it's coming from your body towel, for your own coffee and it's coming from your body, well, if you are ingesting somebody else's breast milk, whether this is in a sexual situation or you're buying it on Craigslist because you're a bodybuilder and that's what you want to do, you have to really consider, from a sexual health perspective, that breast milk is one of the fluids that can transmit HIV and it can transmit other diseases, and so I do always talk to my clients who engage in this kink about that specifically, because it's really important that you know where that milk is coming from and that person's HIV status, because, again, it is one of those fluids that can transmit HIV, and so that just made me think of it when you were talking about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm glad you bring up the safety factor. It is a body fluid and getting breast milk on the black market's probably not. I do not recommend it.
Speaker 2:People are doing it all the time it is like everywhere.
Speaker 2:And I really, really don't recommend it. I really don't recommend it. And breast milk, though, that is coming from like a donation bank they call it liquid gold for a reason. You know, it's really, really expensive, and so I also can't understand why some people want to turn to a Facebook group or Craigslist group where you can get this milk. But again, from a health standpoint, that can be really, really dangerous, whether that's for a child or for an adult, and so that's the one caveat that I'll put in there.
Speaker 1:All right, we're learning a lot today. Folks Also don't take milk from babies who need it. Lactation like milk banks are there for babies whose mothers can't breastfeed and the babies need the nutrition. So just side note. But let's get back to the kink. So I would say neither of my story Well, I guess my first story like would be me kind of dabbling in the kink with nameless guy. I'm so sorry. If you're out there and listening, I still think about your face after that experience to this day. Boy, what a trooper, though. What a trooper, um, but the the coffee was just a funny story and it was like just a moment of desperation.
Speaker 2:So I would love to know the numbers on how many moms have used breast milk in their own coffee or tea or whatever. I'm sure it's. It's like a remarkable amount.
Speaker 1:I would hope so. I mean also, I feel like you should be willing to taste what your baby is tasting Like. Just you should know what you should. I look, I feel the same way about my vagina. I know what my vagina tastes like. Women need to understand the scent, the smell, the taste of their own body because it helps you know. You know what's healthy, what's, you know a lot.
Speaker 2:It also helps you know if something's going on. That's right, it's like if you're in tune with that stuff. You can often know like, hey, wow, that's pretty fishy, that's smelling like BV, I need to go see my OB and I need to have them do a swab because I think I might need some antibiotics, right, and that is something that is really really common, that anybody can experience, or yeast or whatever. And so, yeah, I mean I think knowing your body is always helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that feeding into the lactation king, and yes, guys, we're gonna get back to exactly what all takes place in it. But it brings me back to our, you know, being okay with our own body fluids, being okay with our partner's body fluids again, safe sex. But let's say we're in a, you know, consensually, consensual, safe relationship, like sex has has body fluids happening. That's part of sex, and so it's helpful to know what your own body fluids are like. And well, a, it makes you less self-conscious because you understand, and I would imagine, especially in the lactation kink, that's such a vulnerable thing for a woman who's actually lactating. But let's get to it. So let's say, does the lactation kink always kick off with a pregnancy and someone who is currently lactating? Or B, can a woman actually make herself lactate in order to participate in this kink? Do you know?
Speaker 2:They can. You can actually induce lactation even if you have never experienced pregnancy, which is fascinating. It is more difficult than it sounds, right, or maybe it does sound like it's difficult, it is. There's a certain amount of hormones right that need to be happening. There's different supplements that are out there. There's a lot of different things, including, like even suckling of the breasts, right. That needs to happen often and consistently, in combination with these other sort of hormonal and supplemental interventions. But it can be done and it is done.
Speaker 2:I also, in my research for our conversation, read a really fascinating study about a trans woman who also was able to lactate as part of an adoption process for her and her partner.
Speaker 2:And so, with the hormones that were used by her medical provider, right, and this um, um action of sort of um, I don't know, I'm like going like this, like I'm pumping, but you know what I mean of like sort of getting it going, it was done, and so I just think it was so interesting and cool to learn that.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I don't know that the lactation can always start with you know a person who has been breastfeeding or is lactating and you know now, like you're saying, sort of in your example. You know we're in a sexual situation and there's this letdown of milk. That, again, is so common and can happen for nursing moms everywhere. Right, it can happen in the grocery store, it can happen while you're driving, it can happen, you know, because your baby is crying. It can also happen because you're aroused. It can just happen. And so I think for some folks it just sort of like happens, right, and then breast milk becomes part of the sexual encounter, the sexual situation, and then maybe there is a curiosity or a wondering, right? However, there are also folks who just are actively seeking out an adult nursing relationship where they're really looking for somebody who is lactating because they want to be able to breastfeed from that person for the sole purpose of sexual gratification.
Speaker 1:But not necessarily while having sex or with sex included, correct?
Speaker 2:And for other folks, they may be seeking an adult nursing relationship not for the sole purpose of sexual gratification but for other reasons right such as comfort, such as connection, such as intimacy. I had a client that I worked with many years ago who really liked to breastfeed in the morning. The same way somebody may love to, for me I love to have a hot tea on my couch with a blanket and be cozy right. For them it was sort of like the equivalent of that morning routine, and so it was the only time that they did it and it was something that was consensual between them and their partner. And in the morning they had this routine of always nursing, and it was a really comforting, connecting experience for them, even though there was not any sort of explicitly sexual activity in addition to the nursing that was happening in this sort of smuggling, cuddling, close, intimate way.
Speaker 1:Now, can the kink take place when there's actually no milk being made, or does the milk have to be present for the kink to be fulfilled?
Speaker 2:Great question. I don't know. I mean, I think it would depend on the person. I would imagine that for some folks, like you were talking about, the fountain aspect is really important, right, like the sort of speed at which they can get the milk is a turn on or, you know, really being able to fill their cheeks almost like a chipmunk with, like these big amounts of milk. But for other folks, that may not be as important, and so there are also ways that you could sort of mimic, right, that there's lots of different things on the market. I don't know what it's called specifically, but, like, certainly there's something that will shoot anything you want out of of a nipple if you are using it in conjunction, you know, with. So there's definitely ways to like simulate that as well, and so I would guess that no, it does. You know, the person doesn't actually have to be lactating for it to potentially work for those people.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. I know that I have in my porn rabbit hole experience. There was like one couple that I kind of thought they owned the market on the lactation kink, because they were like I don't even know how I ended up there. It was a while ago, who knows, could have been a hundred different things that brought me there, but their content actually I don't know that they ever had sex in their content. It was just like him straight up, you know, like normal, normal, normal looking people like you. These are normal. Kink is normal guys.
Speaker 1:You know all those people that you think I don't care if you're going to church every Sunday. Look around, look around.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, oh. I wish we talked about it more. You know, people are so many people come to me and they're just deeply, deeply in shame of like, oh my God, is something wrong with me. I'm into this, but like I have a family and I have a job and I like function and like I'm a good person and all of these things, I'm like, yeah, yeah, all of those things are true, and you can have a lactation cake, it's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not like it suddenly makes you any less of a good person. It's just a thing you enjoy doing, because sex is not dirty, you know, within consensual relationships. But here's an interesting question In your experience, distinct question In your experience, do certain attachment styles tend to be more interested in the lactation or pregnancy kink?
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I have not thought about that.
Speaker 1:My question would be is there a way to use it to correct some of the attachments? I'm just thinking of some of the interesting experiment.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I would recommend that as a therapist, although under the close guidance of a sex therapist. I don't know, potentially it could make sense, but it would really have to make sense. I've yet to come across that, but it's interesting because when we think about attachment we think about sort of those primary relationships. When we're very young, that can often be the thing that sort of dictates our attachment style. Although attachment styles can change, I know that people think that they can't, they can styles can change. I know that people think that they can't, they can. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's certainly somewhere in there. There's, there's an overlap. I just have not done specific work around the lactation, kink and attachment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, for me it would make sense that it could definitely we talk about like reparenting ourselves to heal ourselves. You know, yeah, yeah, something that's nurturing like that. Maybe you didn't feel you got enough of being, you know, provided for having your basic needs met. You know talking about some avoidant folks out there. Maybe it's time to find that partner for some lactation therapy.
Speaker 2:I don't know, and if it's consensual and it's working for those people, great. I also think that if you're going into that with the expectation that is going to heal some attachment wound or some attachment stuff, that's a really tall order right. There's so much more to it than that and so I think it could be an aspect of healing. I don't think that it's going to be the end, all be all for anybody there. Rarely, rarely if ever, is one thing that is the thing that is going to you know, heal you and you know, then your healing journey is over. That's just not real, right.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. Well, let's talk about the practical side of these kinks. A lot of people have a hard time sharing their kinks with their partners. If you are somebody who is listening to this and you're like, I definitely am turned on by that. It's something I've been wanting. And let's say, first of all, if they have a partner, if you have a lactation or pregnancy kink and you have a partner, how do you start the conversation with them without causing them to give you the what the fuck look in response?
Speaker 2:Question. I think this could be true of any kink, right? I think a lot of times, folks are really really nervous going into a conversation with a partner or partners around a specific thing that they're wanting to experience sexually, and so I think number one is finding a dedicated time, right? They say oftentimes, like the best time to talk to your like teenage kids is like while you're driving and you're trying to make it like real casual. This is like not one of those situations. Okay, you're not going to be like on your Sunday morning stroll walking the dog, and then all of a sudden slip in like, hey, and, by the way, I'd really love to use the breast pump this weekend while we're fucking. Right, like that's probably not the way to go about it. Really, finding a time where you can connect with your partner or partners with the intention and them knowing that we are coming into a conversation about sex and our sex life, how we connect, etc. Right, so that they can kind of be in that headspace.
Speaker 2:Typically, I think when people say, hey, I need to talk to you about something, people need to become really anxious to begin with, and so the more clearly we can communicate hey, I really want to talk to you about something. It's making me feel a little bit worried. I just want to run this by you. It has to do with our sex life. It's not bad, but, like, can we find a time to talk Right and really kind of setting it up?
Speaker 2:The other thing that I think folks can do is say, hey, I listened to this cool podcast and there was this sex therapist on there.
Speaker 2:I always tell my clients I'm like, blame it on me, say the sex therapist brought it up right, like the sex therapist was talking about how people experience like a really wide range of sexual interests, and I realized that we've never really talked about that very much.
Speaker 2:You know we've done the things that we've done and sure, we've had communication about what we like, but I think there are some things that I would like to try that we haven't tried yet.
Speaker 2:And would you be open to going through a sexual inventory which, for the record and I can send you this so you can link it for your listeners there are lots of these that are available and there's lots of them where you can kind of fill something in, and so this is an exercise that I often will have folks do in relationships where it's like, oh, we're each sort of sitting across from each other, we're going to check the boxes, we're going to see where there's overlap or not. But it really opens up a conversation and is typically really eye opening for folks where it's like, oh, I had no idea you were, like, potentially interested in age play, or I had no idea you were interested in exploring me. Having an adult nursing relationship with you, or breastfeeding probably is what you would call it Right, but something like that where you can have this honest back and forth with them.
Speaker 1:Right and and I also think it's important, something that people don't do often enough I think you should have weekly sex talk time, like one dinner a week, just like, hey, let's set this time aside to talk about our intimacy and sex life and what's going on and what we want and what you know. And it's a judgment free zone. And if you're already having those conversations, then to start breaching kink isn't good. You know, once you're used to talking to each other about sex, then you can start expanding the topic. And I love the idea of the sex inventory because those lists too's some wild shit on there. So I mean the stuff that everything from you know, like you know your basic kink to like holy, wow, didn't even know. So they're gonna read the list and they're gonna look at yours and look, don't worry, it's gonna be surrounded by stuff that's gonna have them mind boggled. Yours is going to look like fucking soft porn.
Speaker 2:Let them know the breadth of what's out there. Absolutely, I just want to suck on your tit. Yeah, I was going to say to your point.
Speaker 2:I often encourage folks to schedule sex, and when I say schedule sex, I don't mean that on Saturday at 4pm you need to be like naked in the bed and like ready to go, but it is an opportunity for you to connect, even if there ends up being no sex at all, to connect about sex and intimacy and and your connection and what that feels like in the relationship.
Speaker 2:And so if you are worried about having this conversation with a partner or partners, you could start by suggesting like, hey, I'd really love for us to have a weekly conversation about our sex life, or I would love for us to have a weekly time where we drop in to experience each other, and that may just mean snuggling naked in bed, or it may just mean snuggling on the, or it may just mean making out or whatever, whatever. But if you start to get into this routine of hey, we are going to create time and space and our very busy lives to connect and talk about sex and or have sex or whatever it may be. Getting into that habit is going to, like you're saying, grow your confidence and your communication in that relationship to be able to bring something up that may feel otherwise out of left field.
Speaker 1:Right. So now let's talk to people this is their little takeaway who are single and they want to experiment with the lactation or pregnancy kink. What do they do tonight to start figuring out how to dabble?
Speaker 2:There's no lack of porn around this, although I'm a big proponent of ethical porn, and so you know if you're looking for porn around this, there's many ways you can get it. I don't think I need to tell people how to find porn. It's one way that you could, you know, start to just get a sense of what's out there. I also think that you know when we're talking about, like the pregnancy kink, depending on what is really arousing for that person. Start there. Maybe the idea of taking a pregnancy test is really hot for you. Maybe the idea of having like a food baby right, and you've like eaten too much and your belly is sort of like expanded in this way, maybe that feels really exciting and you want to sort of create that and then go have some time with yourself in front of the mirror. That could be a real turn on for folks.
Speaker 2:Maybe you want to watch birthing videos, I don't know. Maybe you want to be in the bathtub and you want to sort of reenact this moment where you're about to give birth or you've got this belly and there's something really sexy that turns you on about that. Use your imagination, use that rich fantasy life that we have to imagine the ways in which this might be really pleasurable for you and just experiment. You know, it's like what is pleasurable for you or what is a turn on for you, maybe really different than what you were initially thinking when you listened to this episode. And so just be open-minded and sort of see where that goes, see how it feels. And if you start exploring and you're like, actually I'm not sure that I like like this or like I don't really want to keep exploring this, that's okay too. Nobody's saying that you like have to have a lactation or pregnancy kink, but if there's something about it that seems intriguing, piques your curiosity, could be really pleasurable. Sky's the limit. Use your fantasies and go wild.
Speaker 1:What about for men who are wanting a woman for that? Yeah. What do you think about sites like like um? There's FetLife and there are fetish and kink sites where people are looking to connect in that way, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Absolutely, I mean, you could find somebody. You know if this is something that you're really wanting to pursue, this is something that you really want to do. There are ways to find and connect with folks who are consensually willing to provide that, and so go for it Right.
Speaker 1:There are tons of sites out there. Just be careful. I mean, honestly, I suppose you could even use a typical dating site and just put your kink notice on the front of it, but I would imagine there are plenty of people who want to remain anonymous. So there are sites like FetLife. I think that's countrywide right. It's not just local to portland, is it?
Speaker 2:no, it's definitely not just local to portland, that's at least nationwide right.
Speaker 1:So then you know, but vet vet people, obviously you know well and again, from, like a sexual health perspective.
Speaker 2:just keep in mind, know it's like breast milk is one of the bodily fluids that can transmit HIV, and so just keeping that in mind as well, like knowing your partner's status, is important, I think, no matter what, but that's definitely something to be aware of if you are seeking this service outside of a relationship or like a known partner. Just keeping that in mind.
Speaker 1:We're like a known partner. They aren't going to yuck your yum. They are going to be there to help you achieve what you want to achieve, and then you know they understand the boundaries around that. So that is another option that's out there for you as well. You're always and you're always going to be able to find someone who's into what you're into. Sometimes it just takes a little bit longer to do the search Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But again, it's like, if you can imagine it, if you're imagining something that is hot for you and you think you're the only person out there, the fact that you can imagine it means that somebody else is also doing it already. So it is absolutely possible to find somebody who's into the same thing as you and not everybody will be, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Can you leave my listeners with any last pieces of advice around this kink? What fun.
Speaker 2:I mean that's what I would say about any kink. It's like enjoy it, you know. It's like this is supposed to be pleasurable, whatever this does for you, whether it is that close emotional intimacy that you're seeking, or maybe there is some kind of reparative experience that you're looking for, or you just want to know what the sensation would be like to have something inside of you, you know. Whatever it is, go for it, enjoy it, be curious about it, use lube and just see where it takes you, and know that there is nothing wrong with you for wanting to explore this. Of course, consent is paramount that is required but outside of that, what you do with another consenting person or with yourself is meant to feel good, so go for it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Can you tell my listeners where they can find you and get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:Yes, you can find me at my website. That is the main way I'm in touch with folks. I am actually, like such a, not a big fan of social media. It has its ups and downs, but my website is phasesofthemindtherapycom. My email is there. There's a million ways to contact me there. Folks also oftentimes, when they're looking for therapy support, they will reach out to me via text, and so folks are also welcome to text me and get in touch that way.
Speaker 1:Folks, you know how to get in touch with me. If you are watching this video on YouTube right now, please feel free to drop your questions and comments below in the comments section. We will try and get back to you and answer them, should you have any. So let me know what you think. Do you have this kink? What does it look like for you? We cover everything uh that we possibly could for two, plus kinks uh that are associated pregnancy, lactation. We even threw in breeding. I feel like that needs a closer look. But if you guys have questions or comments, you can also email me. You can reach out to me at Annette at TalkSexWithAnnettecom. But thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I feel like I learned a lot today, I confessed a lot today and I'm going to go rethink that in just a minute. Until next time, folks, I'll see y'all in the locker room. Cheers.