How My Ex-Boyfriend Turned Me Gay: The Truth About Queer Fluidity & Bad Sex

What happens when bad sex, emotional labor, and a complete lack of foreplay push you to swear off men altogether? In this spicy and unfiltered Pride Month episode, I’m joined by three of my closest queer friends to unpack a rising trend: women “coming out” after a string of terrible relationships with men.

We ask the big, controversial question: Can a man be so bad in bed that he turns you gay?
Spoiler: it’s not that simple.

From religious shame and lesbian bed death to strap-ons, sex toys, and how emotional safety impacts arousal, we dive deep into the raw realities of sexual identity, relationship fatigue, and the fluid nature of desire.

You’ll hear:

• Why some women say “never again” to men—and mean it
• The difference between being queer and just being tired of bullshit
• One woman’s switch from dating only women to finding true safety with a man
• How emotional intimacy and creativity in bed make or break attraction
• And what men actually need to know if they’re worried about their partner leaving them for a woman

Whether you’re a man wondering what not to do, a queer woman navigating your own desires, or just someone curious about how love, lust, and fluidity collide—this episode is for you.

👉 Want to watch the techniques or get guided self-pleasure practices? Join me on OnlyFans:  https://talksexwithannette.com/talk-sex-with-me/
💌 Coaching, blog, Substack, and more: https://talksexwithannette.c

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to "How My Ex Turned Me Gay"
• 4:14 Lydia's Story: From Men to Women
• 11:13 Chrissy's Journey Toward Queerness
• 17:03 Erin: From Lesbian to Dating Men
• 29:03 Lesbian Bed Death and Relationship Dynamics
• 35:53 Debunking the "Turned Gay" Myth
• 46:24 Intimate Needs and Sexual Fluidity
• 57:13 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways

Transcript

annette: 1:03

Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here. Nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chats, our most trusted friends and, of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. If you've been here from the beginning, thank you, and if you're new, welcome to my podcast. Where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Now let's talk about sex Cheers.

annette: 1:38

Today's Talk Sex with Annette topic is how my ex-boyfriend turned me gay. All right, folks, everybody knows that, especially since the pandemic, there has been a slew, if you will, of women coming out late in life as lesbian, bisexual, queer basically, and there is an idea going around that the men that they dated turned them gay. And sometimes they'll say this relationship or the relationships I've had with men have turned me off so much that I'm doing women now. Well, today on this podcast, I have two women who have had such experiences and we're going to get down to the bottom of the truth. Can a boyfriend be so shitty that he makes you gay? But I've got a little twist on this topic. I actually also have a woman here who has in the past, identified as a lesbian and now is dating a man.

annette: 2:52

So we're really attacking this topic from all angles. I'll also, of course, share my experience, but we're going to talk about can someone turn you gay or straight or whatever it is you identify as, but has you fucking something different than you used to? I know you all want to know and with me, I'm very lucky. It is Pride Month here in Portland, oregon, and I've got my closest friends with me and these three ladies are going to discuss this topic with you guys today and I'm going to let them tell you who they are. And I'm going to start with one of my very good friends, Lydia, who's from Palm Springs. I met her at the Dinah Aquare Women's Event Festival last year and she is here with me today. Lydia, do you want to tell my listeners a little bit about you?

lydia: 3:43

Hello, thank you so much for having me, annette. I am so thrilled to be here. My name is Lydia and, like Annette said, I am from Southern California, raised there. My pronouns are she, her, and I definitely identify as bisexual, but I have a lot to share with how my experiences with men have led me to be more invested in women.

annette: 4:05

And then another good friend of mine is here today who has been on other past podcast episodes, especially in our early days. A flash to the past is Bubbles, aka Chrissy.

Krissy: 4:19

Yes, I think I was on some Locker Room Talkin' Shots podcast.

annette: 4:24

Before the podcast became Talk Sex with Annette.

Krissy: 4:28

I was MIA due to a relationship with said man that turned me gay.

annette: 4:32

And can you tell everybody a little bit about you? You?

Krissy: 4:35

are. I am, I guess, queer, queer, I don't know, Leaning towards gay Leaning towards lesbian Pretty lesbian, although I still find men attractive. I just don't know if I want to fuck any of them. Why do we call her bubbles foxy bubbles? If you will, I blow giant bubbles. You can find me on all of the medias as foxy bubbles that's right.

annette: 4:58

Oh, bubbles is now on the bubble of finding out whether she is a lesbian or still just queer. And then my third friend, who has joined us today and is actually the lesbian turned Well we'll find out, Not lesbian Erin. Can you tell everybody about you?

Erin: 5:15

Yeah, I'm Erin, she, her or they, them. I identify as pansexual and did originally identify as bisexual when I came out at 14, but felt more lesbian because I hadn't explored with men until my like mid-20s and so that's where that kind of came from. So I wouldn't say that I had a girlfriend. That was so bad that I ran back to men necessarily, but it just is.

annette: 5:42

My attraction to people has very little to do with their anatomy and so this is just how it happened, right, and we will be talking about that journey. So why do you want to stay to the end, folks? Well, first of all, if you're a guy, you probably want to know how to not turn your girl gay, and we're going to help you with that by maybe sharing lessons that got these gals to not want to hook up with men anymore. We're also going to be really diving into is it a myth? What's the reality? What's really happening here, through personal experience and some facts, some science, if you will as well. So stay to the end. Okay, guys, let's get ready to talk about how your exes turned you gay or not, cheers has turned you gay or not, cheers?

annette: 6:32

I'm going to start with my two friends who started out identifying maybe as heterosexual at some point, then queer, then were with men and now they're like no to the dick. I want to start with you, lydia. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience at Venture, if you will?

lydia: 6:46

All right. So I was raised in an incredibly conservative church family. My father is still a pastor, so I was brought up being told that really my body was to be in service of a man and support my husband and to have babies. So when I found myself attracted to women from a younger age, I would just dismiss that because I was also attracted to men. But as I've gotten older I've realized that a lot of the things that didn't sit well with me with men women have naturally that intimacy and things like that. I would say the number one thing that made me want to go more lesbian than away from men is that men's fear of using toys in the bedroom. Like you know, if your penis isn't a certain size, you know, like, there I have one in the drawer, you know, like, use it on me. And it was not anything that my partners were ever open to.

annette: 7:41

All right, let's dig in a little bit. That was not what I thought you were going to say, interestingly enough. So you're saying, basically, your sex life with the men is what drove you to be like I want to experiment with women, or?

Krissy: 7:57

I want to be with women.

annette: 7:58

I want to have sex with women because they were not willing to use toys. I mean, is that the root of it, or is it just that they aren't willing to experiment and have sex in a way that goes beyond the PNV?

lydia: 8:15

No, For me it was first of all like the intimacy that women bring. When you just have a conversation with a woman and they look in your eyes and they're listening, Like the men weren't bringing that, and then the only thing they really were bringing like I'm a self-financially sustained human, so they're bringing the dick. And if you're not willing to bring the other intimacy and then you're not willing to also be willing to like give me what I need sexually and whatever you can, that's kind of what led me to women, because women are so much more open to like what do you need? How does that feel? How can I make you feel better?

annette: 9:21

So it sounds like it's a combination of the emotional intimacy that you experience with women and then also the communication that takes place in bed with a woman, and the creativity that you felt could come into the bedroom easier, at least with a woman.

lydia: 9:40

in your experience it was also like safety in the bedroom, because why a man wants me to, you know, give him a blow job and do all these things which I'm supposed to be really, really good at. But then what about my needs and what about listening to what I need? And I just found that men were not open to digging deeper into that.

annette: 9:59

So, yeah, so now she wants the pussy, I get it. I get it, all right. All right, chrissy, what flipped your switch? And I'm excited to talk about this. So, because, chrissy, this is a newer thing for you, and before we move on to you, chrissy, lydia, how long ago did you make this decision? Move on from men to focus on primarily on women?

lydia: 10:27

So I have not had sex in five years with a man. I've had lots of sex by myself and I fuck myself very well, but it's it's. I've always been bisexual, but I had to deconstruct that indoctrination from religion before I felt healthy enough to pursue a woman, because I didn't want to be fucked up in my head, you know, uh. So now I'm finally at a point where I'm able to do that do you identify as a lesbian now or still queer?

annette: 10:53

did you set that at the beginning?

lydia: 10:54

so I can. I, I'm queer, for sure. I don't ever want to have sex with a man again, especially not so women have, uh, you know, autonomy over their body in every fucking state. So that's just something I'm not gonna do. You know, I'm more interested in the female anatomy and I never really I never liked giving head, I never liked guys like coming in my mouth or anything that just grossed me out. So yeah, I don't know if that answers your question.

annette: 11:18

That's it. Yeah, yeah, all right.

Krissy: 11:19

So now, chrissy, this is newer for you feeling like I might be gay, and your breakup with your ex, who we've joked about, but I think you also feel a little bit like that relationship might have been the catapult if you will um, yes, I was married for a long time and very bisexual, and that bisexuality lie dormant for quite a while and then, when it resurfaced, I very much so had talks with my ex and he didn't want to wrap his mind around it, even though he knew we got divorced during COVID. And then I was single for about nine months and I met this guy on the river and was like all dickomatized for a while. I mean, let's be real, the sex was really good at first for a while. I mean, let's be real, the sex was really good at first. And then I moved him in and realized that he was kind of a narcissist and didn't really care about anybody but himself and the sex wasn't good anymore. And I did this for three years.

Krissy: 12:39

The last year was really shit. There was a lot of emotional abuse, zero intimacy. Even when there was intimacy, he did not like to kiss, foreplay was basically non-existent. And I just kind of got to a point to where I was kind of like you, lydia, like what about me? What about my needs? Am I going to get to come? Do I get a warm up before I might potentially come? No, and things got really bad and we broke up. I just I told him we got to a really bad fight probably two months before we broke up and I looked at him dead in the eye and I said I will never date another man after you. And I just I don't look at men anymore and go, oh, I want to fuck him. Well, until kind of yesterday.

annette: 13:39

Yesterday I was with Chrissy when a guy turned her head and she lit up a little bit. So it sounds to me, chrissy, like with you.

Krissy: 13:55

I'm hearing some similar themes Lack of, let's just say Creativity, dedication, dedication, intimacy, intimacy, orgasm, orgasms of, let's just say creativity dedication, intimacy, orgasms, fun adventure like any of it. Anything that you're supposed to do with your partner was non-existent, and what I did get was very bare minimum. I mean just beyond.

lydia: 14:18

Bare minimum, I mean just beyond bare minimum, and then also to like, with technology just becoming what it is and all these amazing vibrators and toys and strap-ons and everything Like. If you're not bringing something to the relationship besides your penis, I don't need your penis anymore.

Krissy: 14:35

He said he didn't want to desensitize me. That's why he didn't want to use toys in the bedroom. I don't want you to get desensitized. My dick and I was like but what about my pussy? What about my pussy? My pussy needs love.

annette: 14:49

Also as your resident sex and intimacy coach.

annette: 14:52

That isn't a real thing, toys don't really desensitize your clitoris or your pussy, so I just have to put that in there. But so I'm hearing repeated things. I would also like to interject Chrissy, as Chrissy's friend who was with her as she was going through this, and Lydia, you did not mention this, but with Chrissy's ex I would say there was a lot of feeling like you were his mom and not his girlfriend, like taking care of him. He moved into your place. He didn't help clean up. He didn't really do that. That was a complaint. I heard a lot that you were doing the emotional labor of trying to get him to open up plus the physical labor of of momming him.

Krissy: 15:34

I was basically a trad wife and a mom.

lydia: 15:36

Yeah, I was basically a trad wife and a mom. Yeah, having to take care of a man at, especially after 40, you're like, come on, that takes away my boner faster than anything. Right.

annette: 15:49

Yeah, all right. So Aaron is a different story, so what I think I'm going to do is, aaron, before talking about my experience, I would like for you to come in and share a little bit of your own story and how you have actually gone from being with a woman to having found a beautiful relationship with a man, just because I think it's a really nice juxtaposition of experiences and adds, I think, balance to the conversation.

Erin: 16:21

As I had mentioned, I had only my first girlfriend. I was almost 16. And it wasn't a conscious choice to be like I'm just, I prefer women. It just was that as I was moving through the world and relationships would end and I would be available again, I just found myself. I think it's that intimacy, like that connection, and that intimacy was stronger with women, and especially I started college at 17. A lot of teenage boys were were really like I just, I just want to have sex with you, um, and I'm like, nah, I'm good, I just I wasn't feeling it and so I ended up being like, I think like early 20s, mid 20s, before I even gave guys a chance, and I it honestly was. From being in Las Vegas and in the nightclub industry, I actually got to see probably alcohol induced, like liquid courage, but a lot more vulnerability from men and that actually piqued my interest. I was like, oh, there's something going on in there, great.

Erin: 17:28

That was my first experience of men kind of opening up and being more vulnerable and in offering that level of intimacy, and yet I still was like like, as far as taking that anywhere sexually, but I had a real mix with women, like a lot of the things that women are known to be like. Oh well, women will do this and women like I had. I dated a few women that were more like dudes in the bed, um, and I didn't realize that until being with guys. And then I was like, oh, I've experienced this before.

Erin: 18:01

I mean kind of what Chrissy was talking about, about like the lack of foreplay or you know this, that and whatever.

Erin: 18:07

And I felt in and in the male relationships that I had, there was this weird like men trying to get used to our dynamic. And what we figured out, because we didn't know what was going on at first, is that, as far as dating women, I'm a switch, came to men because I found them a little bit like well, you're new and different for me and so I was taking this more top, like role with men. Oh, and they were like what are you doing? Because I found that in dating men and having I hung out with a lot of men, but I found that the way that sex was spoken about with my guy friends and just with the men that I was exploring, maybe dating, it was like if they were pleasing me, if they went down on me and they gave me an orgasm, like that was their bravado, that was their like when they did that for me but on the flip side, if I were, you know, giving them head, that that was also they're still like in this dominant like.

Erin: 19:13

You're on your knees in front of me and I was like, so when am I in control? And so that I introduced that into my first relationships and there was a lot of kind of push pull with me trying to find like my authenticity in the bedroom and have that not intimidate men that I was with and and the partner that I have right now. I am really grateful for the ways in which I can move really fluidly between that kind of more dominant topping space and also just being a total pillow princess, like being exhausted and being like pillow princess, like being exhausted and being like, yes, please me, thank you, I love that. I'm really really grateful for him and I'm also grateful that he happens to be a him, because I think that I have gone through like the lesbian bed death where I've been in long-term relationships with women, and then it just like things dwindle and with one of my partners they did later transition and so that made a little bit more sense. I was like, okay, like this all tracks more that not wanting to be touched, not wanting to be intimate if you're not feeling right in the body that you're. In that that makes sense. But there were other patterns of things like that.

Erin: 20:33

In my last relationship with a woman I had been through sexual trauma. She had been through sexual trauma. They were just things that we were trying to work through, but more and more she is always my family. But it became very platonic and it became very we're the best of friends, we are roommates. We no longer really knew how to connect sexually and intimately together on no fault of anyone's. We just were like how do we even? What do we? Where do we go from here? Like when you've fallen so far away from it?

Erin: 21:04

And so I've gone through periods of celibacy in my life. That was like an involuntary period of celibacy and I think that helped just open me up a little bit more to the possibilities of being with my current partner, because it wasn't so much like I don't want to date women anymore. It was just well, let me be. I think I was a little bit more open to him than I would have been at another point in my life because it was like, okay, I've done, I've explored this. Because it was like, okay, I've done, I've explored this. What does it look like for me to open this other door and see?

annette: 21:36

Can I ask what I feel is an obvious question?

Krissy: 21:43

Yeah, Do you miss fucking women? I have to ask. I have to ask.

Erin: 21:48

It's funny because Lydia just asked me that the other day and my answer to that is, at the moment, no. No, I'm not going to tell you that's not in my spank bank, because it is, and my partner like knows and is fine with that. I'm like I can't control what just pops in here and what does it for me.

Erin: 22:02

But, I think that what's so awesome about my current partner is that he really lets me explore the different facets of me, and so that part of me that seems to come out more with women, I'm allowed to explore being her and being that. So do I miss women's body? Absolutely. Women are gorgeous, they are delicious, they're amazing. However, I think that in this time in my life, I feel so deeply satisfied and heard and safe to just explore anywhere I want to go, and there is this like fluidity of our more feminine traits, like what is considered more feminine, what is considered more masculine, and a lot of just erasing those expectations, and so I think that that I don't want to say curbs my appetite, but kind of like that's a little bit.

Erin: 23:00

Yeah, no, I think that in this moment I'm always like can we just check in later and see what this looks like for us in the future?

annette: 23:07

Right.

Erin: 23:08

But for now I just I feel more than content and satisfied and heard and able to really express those like when you were saying, chrissy, like well, what about my pussy? Like there were definitely relationships that I was in where I was like oh okay, we're done like you don't care.

Krissy: 23:24

Yeah, you don't care about what's happening with me, right?

Erin: 23:27

and that's both men and women. I felt like that occurred with. So I feel like in, in being in a relationship where it's like we don't even have intercourse until I've already come. That just feels really honoring, like I don't. There were other situations with men where I felt like, oh, you're basically using my body to get off right now.

annette: 23:46

Not cool. What I think is kind of cool about this conversation and the word I heard you say that I really want to grab onto is fluidity, and there are a higher number of women going from being heterosexual, seeming even maybe in their own mind, to being like I suddenly think I'm queer, and then becoming quote late in life lesbians or late in life queer women. So I have known several women who identified as lesbians. I only one, that is, you, who is now with a man, but I know quite a few who let a dick slip in every now and then.

annette: 24:32

They don't admit to it either, but they do.

annette: 24:36

But I think this is you brought up fluidity and I think that what we're seeing here it is maybe a little bit of a joke and for some of us the whole my ex-boyfriend turned me gay Some of us really feel like it kicked off that fluid change from I like men, I'm attracted men to like ugh, and if you think about it in my mind from sort of a psychological standpoint, if you're looking at like classical conditioning right, the idea of classical conditioning and if you are with someone who identifies as man, who and you continually have bad experiences, I can see how that then your likelihood of wanting to or feeling good about the idea of having sex with a man is going to go down.

annette: 25:29

You're going to connect man with negative feelings, whether it's bad sex that was painful because he didn't listen to you, or heartache because of the way he treated you and so on, right. So I can see that actually being something that might take someone who's more fluid in their sexuality whether they know it or not or have admitted it to themselves or not, or have explored it or not and kind of kick them in the direction of like. I think I just want some pussy right now. I think I just want to be intimate with women.

lydia: 26:06

I totally agree on it. And something else I would like to say to your listeners if you're a guy and you're worried about losing your girl to a lesbian, show up for her. I really didn't need that much, you know. But also taking into account that, for women like me who grew up bisexual but in a conservative environment and then now in my 40s I've unlearned all that and now I'm in my sexuality Like I'm not saying I wouldn't have stayed with one of my exes if they wouldn't have, you know, been the way that they were. However, like women and lesbians, like they've upped their game with technology, right, they already knew how to like, please a woman with mouth, oral and fingers and all that, but then you have now all this technology to add to that. Like, I think, women who are fluid, like you're're saying, in it, once they get into their 40s, we're going to even see a rise, a continued rise, of women finding women.

Krissy: 27:00

Because if I can go out and make my own money and bring home my own food and pay for my car and pay my own bills and do all the things and fuck myself, then what do I need you for if you can't be emotionally available and bring something else to the table for me Straight up, and that goes for a man or a woman Also. Erin, I just want to say I'm very happy for you that you have somebody, especially a man, who sees and hears you and validates your needs as well as what it is that he wants, and I think that that's very beautiful. And I don't want to take away from anyone's heterosexual relationships and I'm not man bashing.

lydia: 27:44

Or hetero, hetero facing relationship, because Erin is not heterosexual but, I just want to make sure the listeners understand I would like to also add with Erin that, like her partner shows it's possible, like she has been with women and then is now with a man, and you know he shows it's possible, that you can be all the things you know. It's like he lets go of his ego so that she can be more dominant if she wants to, and I'm sure that improves their sex life as well. So do you think that he was brought up that way or why is he like that? Do you think, karen, why is he like that?

Krissy: 28:28

Why is he?

Erin: 28:29

exceptional, I think that. So I'm his first partner. He just turned 30 this week and I think that that time with himself to really consider himself, to really see himself, to really know himself I actually think that that is a huge part of it. I really feel like he is extremely sensitive, extremely inquisitive and I think that that is a huge part of it and has like a it pleases him to please me. Like it doesn't ever feel like like there was a bravado with other men that I was with.

Erin: 29:14

That he doesn't bring there's pride. He literally can give me multiple orgasms in minutes and so, yeah, of course there's a pride that he has in that, but it never feels like he's doing it for the pride of it. It's centered on me and on what I like, and so I can't really I don't think it's one thing, but I think the biggest part is just his open-mindedness and his sensitivity and his ability. And it's not to say that anytime that I've been like, oh, I actually need this, that they're like all of us get triggered and have our ego bruised a little bit sometimes, but like our recovery from things like that is really quick because we're just willing to be really emotionally vulnerable together and just put things right on the table right away and I think that that like kind of just helps that grow what makes him as exceptional as he is. I'm not quite sure, or else we would have workshops and be teaching other men.

annette: 30:11

Right. So what I'd like to point out? Also, he's cute, also he is a handsome, a handsome man. But you also brought up which I think is important that in woman on woman sexual relationships there is something that is known as lesbian deathbed, which is basically where the sex, the excitement and the sex just trickles. And I think, especially for women who are new to having sex with women, at first it's so exciting.

annette: 30:39

Some of it is because of the taboo, the you're not supposed to be doing this according to our puritanical society. And then, of course, as I think you start owning your sexuality and you start realizing all of that's bullshit, that taboo is going to drop right. That taboo kick, that little kinky like oh, I'm fucking a woman, that kick is going to come down. It's kind of like when you start any new little kink right, like at first it's like holy shit, this gets me off. And then it's like I've been getting spanked for five years now. It's like old, old hat, you got it, I need a twist, let's throw something else in. So I think there's some aspect of that. But it's important to point out that also women with women relationships or women identifying people, also have their, their issues.

Erin: 31:29

So Well, I think that part of what ends up happening is there is a comfortability.

Erin: 31:37

Sometimes there can be kind of like chrissy, I think, what you were talking about at first, the mothering, like the roles get kind of blurry and and there is this. It just becomes really you don't even realize how much time has passed, and I have a really high sex drive, so I even realize how much time has passed and I have a really high sex drive, so I would realize how much time is passing and I think that it becomes this little dance of like who seduces who. You know who is taking this like lead role and if nobody takes it, then just thing happens. And I know that that can happen in heterosexual relationships too. I do love to seduce my partner even now, but like I feel I feel like in lesbian relationships that has a tendency to happen more because you just become kind of buddies and just hanging out as well is that you have two women who have been conditioned in a certain way, and that is, women in our society are conditioned to have a lot of shame around sex.

annette: 32:39

So also bringing the experimentation into bed, the creativity into bed, oftentimes for women and two women together is difficult because you have two people who are trying to strip that shame, the sex shame, away, to feel okay, doing something like look, I'm already being a lesbian, that's already a bad thing.

annette: 32:58

Now you're wanting me to get kinky, are you fucking kidding? I'm going to burn in hell, right, like that's a lot. And so I think that that is some of the stuff that comes in with a lesbian deathbed. But here this is all to just say you can see how on both sides and I say both sides because, like, look, we've got a lot of genders and sexualities between our you know, our heterosexual and then our lesbian identities here. And that's where I want to just take a moment to interject my experience, because everybody who has been listening to me for a while knows that a year and well now, we're almost we're getting close to two years ago I went through a really painful breakup and I had been in a really difficult and painful relationship and I came out of that.

annette: 33:45

I mean, y'all know, especially Chrissy Chrissy has seen me at my lowest. I came out of that and I was like I can't fucking do this again, like this is so painful. And I was right away I was like I can't deal with, I can't deal with a dude, like I'm not, I can't. I couldn't imagine being intimate with a man again and sort of my first experiences were then with women after that and I very quickly was like experiences were then with women after that and I very quickly was like this is a fucking shit show.

annette: 34:19

I was like this is also like women can also be very hurtful. It's hard in a different way. People say that dating men is hard, dating women is hard. You're choosing your heart.

annette: 34:36

Of course, now we have dating men, dating women, dating non-binary people, and the reality is, as most of my listeners know, I am attracted to all people, regardless of gender.

annette: 34:57

Turnaround for me in that I started to really realize what it was that I needed had little to do with the gender and had everything to do with the person and the relationship, and that I had to identify those things.

annette: 35:06

And then, in the people I was meeting, figure out real quick like I was not willing to do another spin around on, like you know, getting another partner with the same traits who's going to treat me the same way and break my heart in the same way, and what I learned and what I feel like I'm hearing, especially from you, erin, as far as what you found in your partner, and from Chrissy and Lydia and what they're looking is something that I find super attractive, that I don't think I had up high on my list before is like kindness and security and consistency, you know, and what package that comes in for me doesn't fucking matter. But the minute and boy, you can feel lack of kindness, meanness poking in men and I certainly have had that in many relationships, especially my last one but also women. Women can be pretty fucking brutal and I'll tell you what the minute I get like I'm dating someone and I get that feeling from them. I'm like my clit shrivels.

annette: 36:10

But if someone is sweet to me, wet, and it really can be in any gender. I want to ask you each do you really think that being with a man or a woman can turn someone queer? Let's start there, Lydia. Do you think being with someone of a certain gender and having just really bad experiences can turn a person queer?

lydia: 36:42

I was saying no, I can only speak for personal experience. Everybody has their own journey, but for me I was always attracted to women and to men, so it was always there. I just know that I never would have gone to women if I had been treated correctly by a man At least that's what I feel like completely heterosexual. And then, because they have bad sex or even sexual assault, change their sexual. Then they might need to take a lot of time to self-reflect and heal. I can only really speak from personal experience because I have had experience with sexual assault so let me be clear.

annette: 38:18

you are saying that you you're like maybe he didn't turn me, but I would have stayed with a man if and not sought out exploring with women if I had been getting what I needed in that relationship. So I want to. That is what Can you confirm?

lydia: 38:38

Well, yes, but that's only because of the strong religious indoctrination for me personally that I had. It was much easier to present as a straight woman than deal with the shit of being queer, so I would have taken that sacrifice and I'm glad I can experience now being my authentic self.

annette: 38:57

But I'm just being honest, like okay, erin, do you feel the same as Lydia, that if you had been getting what you needed in your relationship with a woman sexually, that you would have just stayed in that lane?

Erin: 39:15

It's a little more complicated than that and so far as, like I also was raised in Christianity, but I also I feel like my mom was super open-minded at one point in my life, like I remember seeing Too Wong Fu, things for Everything or the Bird Cave just having she really liked Katie Ling. I remember at a pretty young age not really understanding what gayness was, what queer was, what definitely not what bi was, but that there were other options. But I didn't really get that and as I got older I didn't realize that everybody didn't feel this way. And when I was 14 and had a word for it, like when I met a woman who was bisexual she was 20 something and we were having a conversation I was like, oh, that's what I think I am and that was the closest that I could identify. I'm like I like both men and women. I didn't know about different gender identities and things like that at 14.

Erin: 40:11

But as soon as I had a name for it I was like this is what I am and I didn't have like the traditional big coming out thing. My mom asked me if I liked anybody in school and I said one of my girlfriends no-transcript. That didn't appeal to me. I didn't like that feeling. That weighed on me heavy. I dated Catholic girls who we would have amazing multiple orgasmic sex and then they'd be like, oh my.

Krissy: 41:04

God, I'm going to hell.

Erin: 41:04

I have to go pray about it. It was just a lot to be a teenager and kind of figuring that out and I felt more taboo when I finally started experimenting with men, Like I'm like oh my God, touching a penis for the first time.

Krissy: 41:18

This is weird.

Erin: 41:20

And I knew a lot of my quote unquote straight friends were like oh, I hate giving head, oh I hate when they want me to swallow, I hate that. I'm like I had no context of what that was like and then, going into it, I didn't have any of those feelings towards male bodies. I didn't feel like, oh, this is you're weird or different. I was just like what do I do with this? What do you like being done with this? I don't know what to do with this. And it was such a creative and free space.

Erin: 41:45

I think that my last relationship it was more than just that. We had kind of fell apart from each other sexually and intimately. There was a lot of layers and facets going on. So I wouldn't in any way say that it swayed me one way or another, except that I was surprised and judging myself quite a bit how quickly I got into my current relationship from my 11-year relationship. But I ended up talking through it in therapy and realizing like, well, I had been unintentionally celibate for a lot of that time period and so, seeing it from that lens, so I think, it's yes, in that my needs weren't being met, but not necessarily because it was a woman, but just because there had been this gap.

annette: 42:35

So Chrissy, after this conversation and listening to other people, somebody who's also very much in a situation like you, are coming from that perspective of you and Aaron, do you feel that this relationship with your ex?

Krissy: 42:53

No.

annette: 42:54

You don't feel like it's what.

Krissy: 42:56

No, I don't feel like it turned me gay. I feel like there was always tendencies. I was looking at my dad's Playboys when I was a little kid. I found women attractive. I always have, like Wonder Woman, I mean like the original Wonder Woman, like let's be real anyway. So no, I don't think he necessarily turned me gay. I think I was always gay.

annette: 43:21

I think we'd all be lying if we said you couldn't look at another man if you're a man or a woman if you're a woman, and go, oh, they're attractive or right but do you feel like it sort of like turned you off to the dick for a while and made you like, really, I, really just I want to be in my most queer. Yes, that's what turns me on, that's what gets me wet.

Krissy: 43:44

Yes, I'm not saying I'm never going to be with another man. I cannot predict the future, but right now I'm very much so leaning in a queer direction.

annette: 43:53

Right. So I think this has been a great conversation. Guys, what I learned from this? Do I think it's a myth that being with a man can turn you gay? Yes, I don't think. I don't think there's any scientific evidence out there to say that being with someone of a certain gender is going to turn you queer Not that I know of. Look, if you have the research and I'm wrong, you know what to do. Guys, go over to my YouTube channel at TalkSexWithAnette and drop it in the comment section. I want to see it and I will come back and I will eat my words.

annette: 44:34

But what I do think this really points to is the fluidity of sexuality, especially in people who already identify as being queer. Whether you know especially on the bi spectrum, queer spectrum, pan spectrum that how you experience a relationship with someone of a specific gender can affect what you want in your next relationship. Right, there are a lot of factors that play into it and every experience you have sexually is going to affect sort of what you learn about, what you want and what you're going to look for in future partners if you don't stay with the current partner. What I do think you can take away from this conversation is that, whether you are, let's say, a lesbian in a relationship with a bi or pan woman, or a heterosexual man in a relationship with a bi or pan woman oftentimes bi, pan, queer woman you know people don't want to date them. I would say this happens even more when you're dating a lesbian. In my experience they'll say oh, I don't want to date a bi woman because they always defer to the dick Right, and sometimes with men, oftentimes they're like I want to date a bi woman because I want to have a threesome. Leave you for the other gender.

annette: 47:14

What I would say you can take from this conversation is it's not about by women deferring to the dick or leaving you for a woman. What we do really is a reaction of how we're being treated. Who we decide to be with in our next relationship. If it's not with you is directly related to how you've treated us and what we're looking for. Right, if we're constantly with men who treat us like shit, then we're going to be like hey, what is it going to be like if I'm with a woman or a non-binary person, or if I'm with a lesbian who's like shaming me for being bisexual which has happened or that I'm having lesbian deathbed with. I'm going to be like.

Erin: 48:00

I'm going to try and find me a kinky guy. Are they them Erin thoughts? Any final thoughts? I was going to say that my thoughts on that when you were saying that, is that I've actually found in both dating men and women that I've had more difficulty with men being not wanting to at all have a threesome because they were concerned that I would leave them for a woman because that has always like you. You keep referring to me as lesbian. Most of my friends refer to me as lesbian, even though I identify as pansexual. I've been lesbian, presenting more of my life. That has actually been the reverse for me. I didn't really have women being worried that I would leave them for a man so much as when I dated men they were like well, your preference up to this point has mostly been women, so who knows?

Erin: 48:40

if I get bored of me and run off.

annette: 48:42

So that that makes sense as well. If you early on, did you ever identify as a lesbian?

Erin: 48:48

I know people assume, people assumed, and I think it just was like in, like it was just kind of on the back burner of my mind Like, yeah, at some point I'd like to see what it's like to be with men, but it just hadn't happened.

annette: 49:00

Right. So it sounds to me like because you started with women and people made assumptions about your sexuality, it makes sense that I definitely have had men like. When I've been sort of like lifestyle or in the swinger situation where I came in and had sex with a couple and I, like had sex with a woman, I've definitely had men afterwards worry about me trying to nag their ladies. So it's interesting I wonder if then that's part of the thing. If someone who starts out dating mostly men then dates a woman, a lesbian, they're like oh, you've mostly been with guys, you're going to leave me to go back to a guy. But the bottom line is, I think what you can take away from this podcast is it's really about what you're bringing to the table. You're not turning anybody, but women are trying something else if they aren't getting their needs met with the previous gender of the person they've been with, whether it's a man or a woman or a non-binary person or whatever. Any last thoughts from you, lydia?

lydia: 50:07

So this is a vulva. I encourage all of you to figure out what it is and where things are located For my listeners. Go to the YouTube channel.

annette: 50:16

I encourage all of you to figure out what it is and where things are located For my listeners. Go to the YouTube channel. We are all wearing necklaces with giant vulvas on them that Lydia actually made for us.

lydia: 50:26

I think that the guys who are listening heterosexual men especially know the vulva, worship it the way that you want a woman to worship your cock. It is not just this little bead right here, this is actually a huge thing. So do due diligence to know the pleasure spots of the woman that you are with, because if you don't, someone else is going to going to say, right, also, bring toys into the room. Bring toys into the room. Don't be threatened. If you have like a six inch penis and your girl wants to get down with a big, old, thick shaft, like she's with you, because you're the human right, don't feel less than if you know she wants to use a toy, she's gonna just love you so much more for being vulnerable and for putting her needs above your own ego. So even if you gotta fake it for a while, like really get into it and and worship her vulva and her vagina the way that you want her to worship your cock love it.

Erin: 51:28

I think that a key component to being a good lover is from the entire spectrum of gender and sexuality is knowing yourself and knowing what you like and being willing to experiment with that, and not only knowing yourself sexually, but like being really intimate with yourself. It's so much easier to be intimate with someone else when you are letting yourself be intimate with yourself and that I teach yoga and meditation, and I think that that time with yourself and getting to know yourself will create more space for that exploration in all aspects of your life, including how you're showing up for your partners. It's a pleasure.

lydia: 52:09

So one thing that Erin was saying that really struck a chord with me that brings it all together is like the person that she's with right now. Now she doesn't feel like he is using her body to please himself. He's not using her vagina to get himself off, and I think that's where the big difference comes in yeah, christy.

annette: 52:26

Any final thoughts for our listeners?

Krissy: 52:29

I just think we should all not be so lazy in the bedroom or emotionally. Just stop being so fucking lazy.

annette: 52:42

I think that's actually a really great way to wrap this up. The reality is relationships are work right, but the workload is lesser when two people are doing it together equally lesser when two people are doing it together equally. And when I say workload, there is work that's not fun in life and there's work that's fun in life and a relationship can be and should be fun work, meaning it's fun to get to know someone and be intimate with someone. It's pleasureful to connect with someone and have that intimate connection. It's pleasureful to connect with someone and have that intimate connection. It can be hard to get past your own blocks, your own trauma, and to understand how to do that. That's the work, but it's work that can be fun when done together. Sex is work, being good at it, having good sex for both people. It's not easy, it takes work, but I think we can all agree it can be fun work.

Krissy: 53:39

For sure.

annette: 53:39

But it is work both people have to do, and work is less worky and more fun when both people are doing it Right. I think that's sort of what I'm hearing. Well, guys like listeners, you stuck through it. I think what you can take from this podcast is that if your woman has left you whether you're a lesbian or a queer woman whose woman has left them for a man, or a man whose woman has left him and now is having sex with more women than he is you did not turn them. They were queer and our sexuality is fluid and they decided to flow the opposite direction. And if you don't want to see that in the future, start looking at what role did you play in the relationship. What were the things she was asking for? Figure out why you didn't want to give them. Obviously, there's a reason why you didn't want to give them. I'm not saying that that was the person for you, but maybe when you find your next person, try doing things a little different, and I like the idea of starting out with learning about the vulva. You can go listen to my intimacy how-tos. I will have you ready to blow her mind the next time you hop in bed with her.

annette: 54:55

I want to remind you that I'm over on OnlyFans and there I am sharing my sex and intimacy tips, how-tos and demonstrations, along with audio guided self-pleasure meditations, masturbation meditation. You can find me there with my handle at TalkSexWithAnette. I'm doing a lot of the same over on Substack. You can find me there with my handle at TalkSexWithANet, and if you want an intimacy coach sex and intimacy coach head over to TalkSexWithANetcom and you can find out all about that, or you can email me at Annette at TalkSexWithANetcom. I want to thank my friends for taking time to do that. We are sitting in my very hot place. We had to turn off the air conditioning to it's 95 degrees outside to have this conversation, but I know that it was very vulnerable for each of you who came here and shared today and can I say something?

annette: 55:47

Yeah, Chrissy.

Krissy: 55:49

I just want to say that if you want the big love, if you want the big adventure, the big O, I don't care if you're a man or a woman you're gonna have to do the work. Relationships, but it's work, love is work, it's all work. If you're not willing to do the work, then step to the rear.

Erin: 56:06

I think that a reoccurring theme in my own life is safety is really important Huge and I think that a big part of my previous relationship was that we didn't know how to return to safety together. And so it's not just about the work that you're bringing into the bedroom. There's also those little sweet gestures and those little pauses and those little moments where you're creating and reinforcing safety safety to be heard, safety to disagree safely and we all come from the backgrounds we come from and have to learn that together and learn each other's language of being, and that safety translates into the bedroom as well. So feeling like you can set your ego aside so that she can explore with her toys, that is creating a sense of safety and a container for deeper exploration and then deeper pleasure for everyone.

annette: 57:04

A bunch of great advice, guys. I feel like you guys got some fantastic advice today, so take it, implement it. If you're in a relationship right now, do the sex Start doing the things. Thanks so much. If you're in a relationship right now, do the sex Start doing the things. Thanks so much. Happy pride to my girlies. Happy pride Cheers, happy pride. Until next time, folks, we'll see you in the locker room.